Obsessive/Unhealthy Dieting Relationship
Replies
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I've said it before and I will surely need to say it again...you need non-clergy psychological help from a doctor capable of prescribing medication.
You cannot fix this on your own.-1 -
Yes, that's true (that you can use points to eat bread and extra fats). I don't eat much bread but I have some high-fiber tortillas that are 50 calories and 1 point. When I did a SF-like plan, avocado was free (might've changed), eggs were free, nuts and milk were not but skim was cheap.booksandchocolate12 wrote: »Exactly. That's why I opted for counting points for everything and obsessing over numbers because it allows me to eat anything. However, that also means I'm blowing through all my points in the morning if I decide on avocado toast with eggs or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with milk. I never said I want to freely eat bread and fat. I just want to eat t it. PERIOD. I can't on Simply Filling. I'd eat up my entire weekly allowance on one sandwich. Even counting points, I have to give up a lot of my favorite foods. I don't eat avocados. I don't eat nuts. I don't drink milk. I've given up my favorite dessert yogurt. I gave up the bread I really like. I even stopped eating sweet potatoes because they went up in points.
Not true. My recollection of SFT is that you still get your weekly points, and you can use those (and any activity points) on foods that aren't on the list of allowed foods.
49 points does go fast if you're not thrifty with it, though. But every diet has some deprivation, if not in items than in portions. You have to realize it's temporary. Or you might find you don't mind light bread or sandwiches in romaine and just keep doing it.
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WalkingAlong wrote: »
Yes, that's true (that you can use points to eat bread and extra fats). I don't eat much bread but I have some high-fiber tortillas that are 50 calories and 1 point. When I did a SF-like plan, avocado was free (might've changed), eggs were free, nuts and milk were not but skim was cheap.booksandchocolate12 wrote: »Exactly. That's why I opted for counting points for everything and obsessing over numbers because it allows me to eat anything. However, that also means I'm blowing through all my points in the morning if I decide on avocado toast with eggs or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with milk. I never said I want to freely eat bread and fat. I just want to eat t it. PERIOD. I can't on Simply Filling. I'd eat up my entire weekly allowance on one sandwich. Even counting points, I have to give up a lot of my favorite foods. I don't eat avocados. I don't eat nuts. I don't drink milk. I've given up my favorite dessert yogurt. I gave up the bread I really like. I even stopped eating sweet potatoes because they went up in points.
Not true. My recollection of SFT is that you still get your weekly points, and you can use those (and any activity points) on foods that aren't on the list of allowed foods.
49 points does go fast if you're not thrifty with it, though. But every diet has some deprivation, if not in items than in portions. You have to realize it's temporary. Or you might find you don't mind light bread or sandwiches in romaine and just keep doing it.
Right. The OP wouldn't be able to have as much avocado and peanut butter as she wants (but who can?) but she wouldn't have to eliminate those things. It's that all or nothing thinking again.....0 -
I'd go nuts using a scale.
I find that using a scale gives me more flexibility with my portion sizes. Not everything has to be an exact measurement and it's easier to figure it out when logging. Bonus points for not having a sink full of measuring cups & spoons at the end of the day.0 -
ftsolk, I can see the difficulty of being in control of a diet when you give away so much control of your life.
Here's what I suggest, only and all. Learn what a deck of cards looks like. That's a serving. Once you can eyeball a serving size, you can wing it on proteins and vegetables, and starches.0 -
She's fine. There isn't actually a problem here in any practical sense of the word. Only for the posters who think posting advice would be helpful in any way. She's smart, she's eloquent, she can play the crowd, she keeps it going, she can wiggle out of anything with style - in other words, she has good life skills or street smarts if you will. She uses them as she likes. One of her threads went on for close to 100 pages and for two weeks straight. She responded to almost every post and never ran out of steam.
I wish I could like this post. Sadly, 'tis true.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »You can't let food control your life. I would actually suggest breaking away from MFP if it's causing that obsession. Just eat mindfully, healthy, and common sense portions. Listen to you bodies cues when you're hungry
This^^ Absolutely this!
MFP or any type of weighing and measuring of food is just a tool. Different tools work for different people. Live the life you want to live. The life that makes you happy. Just slightly under eat while doing it until you get to goal. Then continue that same life only don't overeat.
I've tried that before.I gained weight in the process.
Clearly you were still overeating.
#NotRocketScience
Hence the decision that I need to drive myself crazy by weighing and measuring everything I eat because it's the only way to keep myself from overeating.
I do have a meager 35 point allowance of weekly points. A cup of whole milk is 7 points (I stopped drinking milk. I love it, but I don't drink it anymore because it's too high in points, and I dislike fat-free milk). A teaspoon of coconut oil is 2 (a tablespoon is 7). A peanut butter and jelly sandwich with a full serving of PB is 12 to 15 points depending on the bread I use. The avocado toast I had today (2 slices of toast with half an avocado and an egg cooked in a bit of coconut oil) was around 16 to 20 points. Plus, I can't guarantee that I'll have access to "free" foods when eating outside of the house unless I bring my own food- which I am trying to get away from.
There are "FitPoints" now (instead of Activity Points), but they don't recommend you eat those, so Simply Filling is more restrictive than it was before.
I cannot afford medical treatment at this time, so unless you are willing to pay for it, stop suggesting that. It's not an option. I did chat with someone at the NEDA website. She told me to take the online screening that told me I wasn't at risk for disordered eating.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »You can't let food control your life. I would actually suggest breaking away from MFP if it's causing that obsession. Just eat mindfully, healthy, and common sense portions. Listen to you bodies cues when you're hungry
This^^ Absolutely this!
MFP or any type of weighing and measuring of food is just a tool. Different tools work for different people. Live the life you want to live. The life that makes you happy. Just slightly under eat while doing it until you get to goal. Then continue that same life only don't overeat.
I've tried that before.I gained weight in the process.
Clearly you were still overeating.
#NotRocketScience
Hence the decision that I need to drive myself crazy by weighing and measuring everything I eat because it's the only way to keep myself from overeating.
I do have a meager 35 point allowance of weekly points. A cup of whole milk is 7 points (I stopped drinking milk. I love it, but I don't drink it anymore because it's too high in points, and I dislike fat-free milk). A teaspoon of coconut oil is 2 (a tablespoon is 7). A peanut butter and jelly sandwich with a full serving of PB is 12 to 15 points depending on the bread I use. The avocado toast I had today (2 slices of toast with half an avocado and an egg cooked in a bit of coconut oil) was around 16 to 20 points. Plus, I can't guarantee that I'll have access to "free" foods when eating outside of the house unless I bring my own food- which I am trying to get away from.
There are "FitPoints" now (instead of Activity Points), but they don't recommend you eat those, so Simply Filling is more restrictive than it was before.
I cannot afford medical treatment at this time, so unless you are willing to pay for it, stop suggesting that. It's not an option. I did chat with someone at the NEDA website. She told me to take the online screening that told me I wasn't at risk for disordered eating.
You chose a weight loss plan that creates a calorie deficit through assigning certain foods a point value and then limiting the number of points. If you want a different way to create a calorie deficit, those are available -- ways of eating that would allow you to have milk or avocado more regularly.
Weight Watchers isn't something that *happened* to you. You chose it.0 -
If you don't like the advice given then quit because you've basically dismissed EVERYTHING....stop whining buttercup and suck it up like a big girl.0
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I wonder if I just focus on eating mostly whole, minimally processed ingredients at home (whole grains, vegetables, fruit, dairy, healthy fats) while avoiding added sugar and obvious junk food, then maybe that'll be a good start. Then, out of the house, I can try incorporating little tricks that I know I should try following: filling up the plate once unless it's fruits/veggies, skipping sweets unless it's actually a special occasion or rare-homemade treat (which I'm usually good about doing), and trying to stick to a semi-consistent schedule of eating breakfast, lunch, dinner, and maybe 1-2 snacks).
That's what I need. I need a way to eat well most of the time, enjoy time with friends, and NOT obsess over calories or points or any of that.
That sound pretty reasonable. So, yes, do that, consistently.0 -
I'm genuinely curious OP, is weight loss the only part of your life where there is so much unnecessary stress, excuses for everything, and lack of taking personal responsibility?
I think at this point people are suggesting counselling for reasons other than an eating disorder. This doesn't mean you need to be hospitalized or shell out big money for it. There are plenty of services out there that will charge based on income. You just have to be willing to look for it. If it's not something that you want to do, then just say so. Don't use lack of income as an excuse.0 -
I think she's looking for an excuse for failure. And looking for people to co-sign her failure. She's looking for validation that... It's. Just. Too. Hard.
I'm a pretty sympathetic person but people who are looking for excuses instead of solutions both fascinate and annoy me.
My final advice to the OP... instead of countering every piece of good advice you receive... Just give up. Let yourself go. You have that choice as well.0 -
If you can afford WW drop it and seek the couselling over the all or nothing mindset you have and the disturbing thoughts that you are talking about and seek help in managing your lifestyle.
I assume you still want to lose the excess weight so you are going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere we all have had to make choices too.
Food activities that cause YOU stress you have said don't bother others, many of us have traipsed around with scales and pre-packed our own food for occasions, imagine the scenario of those of us with food allergies, Geez if we surrounded ourselves with the same thought processes as you then life would be as miserable as you describe.
The power for change really is in your hands and up to you.
Many others here recognize your postings from the past, I have not come across any of those threads so am not in a position to make a comment but I will say that many, many good people here on MFP have spoken up and it really does appear you have extreme abilities to cherry-pick and deflect the advice most useful.
However you follow through with more internal thoughts about how to again micro-manage your life further thus basically rearranging the deck chairs. These mental processes of yours may give you temporary relief from the mental chaos you feel but it won't last because you are still stuck in the grasp of the faulty thinking. Owning that can be confronting but with time and effort well worth conquering.
Remember your mind (like everyone's) is pretty much a drunk monkey most of the time making a whole lot of racket and getting nowhere positive, it is up to each of us to tame our monkey.
Good luck.0 -
WalkingAlong wrote: »
I don't know of any diet plans that allow you to fairly freely eat bread and fats and also not track. It seems like one of those has got to be very limited, or you have to count everything to keep your portions very small. Good luck!WalkingAlong wrote: »I think if the Beck Diet solution was written differently, I'd like it more. I DO like some of the things I've read in it. I just don't care for her approach. I definitely am less black and white about dieting than I used to be. I can go out for burgers and fries with friends and go right back to eating quinoa and broccoli the next day.
The problem is, I haven't been able to do that every time, and I'm so sick and tired of weighing, measuring and tracking. The idea of eating plain yogurt with fruit as a snack doesn't overwhelm me. I bought chicken sausage, vegetables, and lentils to throw together for lunch on Tuesday when I'm out with friends (I have to pack a lunch for this). I bought frozen seafood. I figure this upcoming week (Monday through Saturday), I'll have 18 meals. 14-16 of those will likely be meals at home OR meals that I'm packing. That means, even if I do have dinner at a friend's house a couple times during the week, at least 75% of my food should be reasonable. And it's not like my friends eat terribly. Tuesday, if I eat at a friend's house for dinner, I know there will be a TON of veggies (my friend will sneak vegetables in EVERYTHING- shredded carrots mixed in ground beef, butternut squash puree in chili). The worst thing about eating there is that her husband is on a low-carb diet, so everything is full fat, but that's what I prefer anyway. (And it means that things like pasta and rice are kept on the side, so I can avoid the white rice that she eats).
Even if I do decide to have pizza when I babysit Saturday night (assuming they decide to order it), that's still in my 2-4 potential meals out of the house this week (and I'll probably throw some veggies on the side to make it a LITTLE better if I don't bring my own dinner (if I end up out of the house for breakfast or lunch, I'm less worried because lunch at my friend's houses usually involves me raiding their refrigerator and throwing something together).
I wonder if I just focus on eating mostly whole, minimally processed ingredients at home (whole grains, vegetables, fruit, dairy, healthy fats) while avoiding added sugar and obvious junk food, then maybe that'll be a good start. Then, out of the house, I can try incorporating little tricks that I know I should try following: filling up the plate once unless it's fruits/veggies, skipping sweets unless it's actually a special occasion or rare-homemade treat (which I'm usually good about doing), and trying to stick to a semi-consistent schedule of eating breakfast, lunch, dinner, and maybe 1-2 snacks).
That's what I need. I need a way to eat well most of the time, enjoy time with friends, and NOT obsess over calories or points or any of that.
Again, have you tried WW Simply Filling plan?
http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/index_art.aspx?tabnum=1&art_id=65271&sc=3002
Yes, I have. It's just not flexible enough for me. I can't have a sandwich for a quick meal (I can't eat most light breads, and I don't want to waste my weeklies on bread when I might need them to go out). I do try to eat more power foods, but I need more flexibility than what Simply Filling allows. (I also need to eat more fat. Two teaspoons of olive oil just won't cut it).
Actually I did think of a diet plan where you can eat whatever you want without (much) logging. There are two respected every other day, modified fast plans. You eat to satisfaction (ad libitum) on every other day and 500 calories on every other day. It takes a lot of discipline at first and I don't think it'll appeal to the OP but maybe someone else reading who's in a similar boat. Look for books by Varady or Johnson for more info. Or try 5:2 dieting or an 18:6 regimen.0 -
I think you should just give up. Being fat is way easier.0
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I joined WW when I was employed, and I'm currently on a 2 month free pass for losing 10 pounds in October and November. That's the only reason I am still on WW. Because I'm getting free meetings now.
I'm just feeling burnt out from measuring and tracking.0 -
WalkingAlong wrote: »WalkingAlong wrote: »
I don't know of any diet plans that allow you to fairly freely eat bread and fats and also not track. It seems like one of those has got to be very limited, or you have to count everything to keep your portions very small. Good luck!WalkingAlong wrote: »I think if the Beck Diet solution was written differently, I'd like it more. I DO like some of the things I've read in it. I just don't care for her approach. I definitely am less black and white about dieting than I used to be. I can go out for burgers and fries with friends and go right back to eating quinoa and broccoli the next day.
The problem is, I haven't been able to do that every time, and I'm so sick and tired of weighing, measuring and tracking. The idea of eating plain yogurt with fruit as a snack doesn't overwhelm me. I bought chicken sausage, vegetables, and lentils to throw together for lunch on Tuesday when I'm out with friends (I have to pack a lunch for this). I bought frozen seafood. I figure this upcoming week (Monday through Saturday), I'll have 18 meals. 14-16 of those will likely be meals at home OR meals that I'm packing. That means, even if I do have dinner at a friend's house a couple times during the week, at least 75% of my food should be reasonable. And it's not like my friends eat terribly. Tuesday, if I eat at a friend's house for dinner, I know there will be a TON of veggies (my friend will sneak vegetables in EVERYTHING- shredded carrots mixed in ground beef, butternut squash puree in chili). The worst thing about eating there is that her husband is on a low-carb diet, so everything is full fat, but that's what I prefer anyway. (And it means that things like pasta and rice are kept on the side, so I can avoid the white rice that she eats).
Even if I do decide to have pizza when I babysit Saturday night (assuming they decide to order it), that's still in my 2-4 potential meals out of the house this week (and I'll probably throw some veggies on the side to make it a LITTLE better if I don't bring my own dinner (if I end up out of the house for breakfast or lunch, I'm less worried because lunch at my friend's houses usually involves me raiding their refrigerator and throwing something together).
I wonder if I just focus on eating mostly whole, minimally processed ingredients at home (whole grains, vegetables, fruit, dairy, healthy fats) while avoiding added sugar and obvious junk food, then maybe that'll be a good start. Then, out of the house, I can try incorporating little tricks that I know I should try following: filling up the plate once unless it's fruits/veggies, skipping sweets unless it's actually a special occasion or rare-homemade treat (which I'm usually good about doing), and trying to stick to a semi-consistent schedule of eating breakfast, lunch, dinner, and maybe 1-2 snacks).
That's what I need. I need a way to eat well most of the time, enjoy time with friends, and NOT obsess over calories or points or any of that.
Again, have you tried WW Simply Filling plan?
http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/index_art.aspx?tabnum=1&art_id=65271&sc=3002
Yes, I have. It's just not flexible enough for me. I can't have a sandwich for a quick meal (I can't eat most light breads, and I don't want to waste my weeklies on bread when I might need them to go out). I do try to eat more power foods, but I need more flexibility than what Simply Filling allows. (I also need to eat more fat. Two teaspoons of olive oil just won't cut it).
Actually I did think of a diet plan where you can eat whatever you want without (much) logging. There are two respected every other day, modified fast plans. You eat to satisfaction (ad libitum) on every other day and 500 calories on every other day. It takes a lot of discipline at first and I don't think it'll appeal to the OP but maybe someone else reading who's in a similar boat. Look for books by Varady or Johnson for more info. Or try 5:2 dieting or an 18:6 regimen.
I am intrigued by IF (probably leaning more towards 14/10. My one concern is my schedule is so varied that if I have an eating window between 11am and 9pm, there will be days where I'm not eating anything until after 2 or 3pm. Then, I tend to overeat when I do eat.0 -
Sounds like you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.0
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Brian Wansink's "Mindless Eating" -- I am going to look into this. What has helped me is telling myself that I need to make a lifestyle change going forward and to write about my feelings when I feel like over indulging. It's helped but I need to re-enforce that behavior.
Hang in there!0 -
I don't think this site is helping you. I agree with the posters above. It is time to seek professional help. Best of luck to you!0
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I am sure that there is a doctor or a counselor in your state who could help you for free. Drop into your local hospital and ask around. Also, I am not sure what state you live in but you could probably sign up for health care insurance under the affordable health care act. Ask the folks at your local hospital to help you. I also recommend overeaters anonymous.0
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Alluminati wrote: »She's fine. There isn't actually a problem here in any practical sense of the word. Only for the posters who think posting advice would be helpful in any way. She's smart, she's eloquent, she can play the crowd, she keeps it going, she can wiggle out of anything with style - in other words, she has good life skills or street smarts if you will. She uses them as she likes. One of her threads went on for close to 100 pages and for two weeks straight. She responded to almost every post and never ran out of steam.
I wish I could like this post. Sadly, 'tis true.
I'll agree that it is attention-seeking and manipulative behavior. She has posted a thread on SparkPeople about the exact same topic. Anybody know if this is also cross-posted on Weight Watchers?
I think that you are totally wrong about the life skills though. This is a bright person who somehow can't finish college, hold a job, live independently or figure out how to eat from one week to the next. She also can't figure out exercise, relationships, how to get herself to the gym or how to deal with winter in New Jersey when it happens each year. The list goes on ad infinitum. She is a victim of everything that happens to her. This is not just immaturity or the worst face of the Millennial Generation--it is mental illness or a brain chemistry imbalance of some sort.
We do her no favors by trying to give suggestions. She has heard them all before in the many years that she has been posting on diet sites.-1 -
I joined WW when I was employed, and I'm currently on a 2 month free pass for losing 10 pounds in October and November. That's the only reason I am still on WW. Because I'm getting free meetings now.
I'm just feeling burnt out from measuring and tracking.
Since you're unemployed, don't you qualify for a state insurance program? I see you're in New Jersey, which probably isn't too different from my state of Massachusetts. I have a friend with Mass Health who gets free therapy.
Maybe someone from NJ can advise you better.0 -
I've tried OA many times. I don't see the point. Granted, I only tried the online meetings because they seemed less intimidating. You aren't allowed to use full sentences (at least in the meetings I've been to), and there's never any feedback given. I feel like it's a bunch of robots echoing each other: "tyfs" "relates" "hugs". I'll give it another go around though...
Try the in-person OA meetings. My experience at (mostly other types of)12 step meetings is that there are nice supportive interactions after the formal meeting, during which cross-talk is indeed not allowed, for a reason.
https://www.oa.org/membersgroups/find-a-meeting/0 -
Folks, as frustrating as it is to feel as if your goodwill is being taken advantage of, I really think that talking about someone as if she is not here is mean. She could be making things up for attention or she could be really hurting. Suggesting that she get medical help is appropriate. But the speculation is getting unkind.0
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Disengaging from the computer and going out into the real world for help is the answer here. There is help available, you just have to be willing to stop posting on this site and go out and ask for it.0
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Q_Is_Poison wrote: »Disengaging from the computer and going out into the real world for help is the answer here. There is help available, you just have to be willing to stop posting on this site and go out and ask for it.
Unfortunately, that willingness is completely lacking. This poster has been making threads like this for literally years. Nothing ever changes.0 -
One more thing, as hard as it may be for folks, people need to place her on ignore and stop responding to her. This encourages unhealthy attention seeking and discourages her from getting in person help from a qualified professional. Put her on ignore and say a prayer...0
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I'm not sure how stretching will help, but I'll try stretching more. I can't get into the meditation aspect of yoga because that aspect of taking a yoga class conflicts with my religious beliefs.
Because you mentioned bible study, I'm assuming you're Christian. Are you familiar with Christian Devotional Meditation/contemplative prayer?
I've been practicing yoga for 20 years, and don't see a conflict between Christianity and the meditation that is sometimes found in some forms of yoga. Most yoga simply emphasizes mindfulness, which you are already trying to practice in other areas of your life. If you find a yoga routine you like that asks you to meditate at the end, simply pray.0
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