I'm tired, cranky now I read Kate Upton is fat?!
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She's not fat, but I do find her weight average and that's not good enough for a model.
We need more average models. These really thin, airbrushed ones we have are the reason why so many girls have eating disorders.
What do we need average models for? We have average people everywhere. Models are supposed to represent a FANTASY. We can't handle the fact that we aren't perfect so we have to make art that's mediocre? C'mon.
Fashion models are NOT meant to be a fantasy. They are meant to present the clothing in an appealing way to the public. The reason that models are generally thin is because they are displaying the "demo version" of the clothing. Designers want to spend as little as possible on the demo as a means to keep costs low. So the "demo version" of the clothing is made in the smallest size possible. For the most part, this cost is minimal, but since employing this practice, society has embraced this rail-thin model as some ideal for beauty and have put this ideal on a pedestal.
Pinup models are meant to be a fantasy and generally carry a larger percentage of body fat than a fashion model.
To each their own. If you feel like the fashion model ideal is right for you, then I wish you luck at it. But that doesn't mean the models with a higher percentage of body fat are lazy or are not beautiful or ideal. Your opinions border dangerously on the line of body-shaming and I think you should reevaluate your opinions because you sound ignorant.
*standing ovation* Thank you. Just.... thank you. :flowerforyou:
Everyone who is calling me ignorant and body shaming... etc. I didn't say this is MY ideal or MY fantasy, or that it's right or wrong or even express MY opinion about what's right or wrong or how things should be. I just gave an honest appraisal of how the media actually works and how it uses bodies and body image to sell products. Your opinions and my opinions about how the media should be don't change how it is or what actually sells products, so please stop with the personal attacks. Thanks.0 -
This is not an issue of fat or skinny. Different women have different body types. Kate Upton has what I think is called the apple body type. And she is beautiful for her body type. She has large, beautiful breasts and an attractive, soft body, but she doesn't have a curvy figure with a small waist and a round, perky booty. There are all different body types and all different variations. Each woman needs to embrace and enjoy the body type that they have. And as far as what "all men want", it's not the same thing. Could Kate Upton improve her fitness, sure. Does she need to? It's her choice and either choice is fine. I don't have her body type. But, I do think she is incredibly attractive.
I'm only saying this because of all the comparisons being made in the thread that her body is healthier, a better role model for children, more attractive to men. Maybe for people that have her body type. But, changing body types is always unattainable. It's not an issue of fat or skinny. There are many other factors involved that relate to genetics and bone structure.0 -
Everyone who is calling me ignorant and body shaming... etc. I didn't say this is MY ideal or MY fantasy, or that it's right or wrong or even express MY opinion about what's right or wrong or how things should be. I just gave an honest appraisal of how the media actually works and how it uses bodies and body image to sell products. Your opinions and my opinions about how the media should be don't change how it is or what actually sells products, so please stop with the personal attacks. Thanks.
What exactly about this statement were you not expressing your opinion about Kate Upton's body and character based on the percentage of body fat? Where exactly did you reference "media's" opinions on the matter? I've bolded the most ignorant parts of the statement for you.When I saw her on the cover of sports illustrated, I was like, "Wow; they put a plus size model on the cover. That's progressive." She's not "fat" for a person walking on the street, but she certainly has at least 2 times the body fat of a standard model. Why does she get paid for that? I think models should have to work for it... Their job is to look good... That's all they have to do. And she doesn't bother to work out? That's just lazy.
She gets paid because she is gorgeous and people want to see her. Why would you think she doesn't work just as hard as any other model? Looking good is not all that they have to do as a model. Why would her percentage of body fat cause you to presume that she doesn't work out and is lazy?
Not once in this statement did you make any claim to representing the opinions of public media. Here's a clue... if public media felt like you do about Kate Upton... then she wouldn't have a career for us to acknowledge and we wouldn't be discussing this now.0 -
To those saying that she's too "fat" to be a model..... so there are slim models, and there are plus sized models. I think it's GREAT to have a model who more closely resembles a healthy version of the average American woman's body! There can't be any inbetween?? Her body is still very unattainable for many, but I hope that little girls look up to her for her body confidence, and not to the rail thin models who look "right" for modeling.
OH, and she DOES work out. I follow her trainer on Facebook. David Kirsch.0 -
She's not fat, but I do find her weight average and that's not good enough for a model.
We need more average models. These really thin, airbrushed ones we have are the reason why so many girls have eating disorders.
What do we need average models for? We have average people everywhere. Models are supposed to represent a FANTASY. We can't handle the fact that we aren't perfect so we have to make art that's mediocre? C'mon.
Fashion models are NOT meant to be a fantasy. They are meant to present the clothing in an appealing way to the public. The reason that models are generally thin is because they are displaying the "demo version" of the clothing. Designers want to spend as little as possible on the demo as a means to keep costs low. So the "demo version" of the clothing is made in the smallest size possible. For the most part, this cost is minimal, but since employing this practice, society has embraced this rail-thin model as some ideal for beauty and have put this ideal on a pedestal.
Pinup models are meant to be a fantasy and generally carry a larger percentage of body fat than a fashion model.
To each their own. If you feel like the fashion model ideal is right for you, then I wish you luck at it. But that doesn't mean the models with a higher percentage of body fat are lazy or are not beautiful or ideal. Your opinions border dangerously on the line of body-shaming and I think you should reevaluate your opinions because you sound ignorant.
*standing ovation* Thank you. Just.... thank you. :flowerforyou:
Everyone who is calling me ignorant and body shaming... etc. I didn't say this is MY ideal or MY fantasy, or that it's right or wrong or even express MY opinion about what's right or wrong or how things should be. I just gave an honest appraisal of how the media actually works and how it uses bodies and body image to sell products. Your opinions and my opinions about how the media should be don't change how it is or what actually sells products, so please stop with the personal attacks. Thanks.
Nope, sorry...
...I'm unpersuaded by your current argument...
...mostly because it seems to have no connection to your original statement.0 -
Everyone who is calling me ignorant and body shaming... etc. I didn't say this is MY ideal or MY fantasy, or that it's right or wrong or even express MY opinion about what's right or wrong or how things should be. I just gave an honest appraisal of how the media actually works and how it uses bodies and body image to sell products. Your opinions and my opinions about how the media should be don't change how it is or what actually sells products, so please stop with the personal attacks. Thanks.
What exactly about this statement were you not expressing your opinion about Kate Upton's body and character based on the percentage of body fat? Where exactly did you reference "media's" opinions on the matter? I've bolded the most ignorant parts of the statement for you.When I saw her on the cover of sports illustrated, I was like, "Wow; they put a plus size model on the cover. That's progressive." She's not "fat" for a person walking on the street, but she certainly has at least 2 times the body fat of a standard model. Why does she get paid for that? I think models should have to work for it... Their job is to look good... That's all they have to do. And she doesn't bother to work out? That's just lazy.
She gets paid because she is gorgeous and people want to see her. Why would you think she doesn't work just as hard as any other model? Looking good is not all that they have to do as a model. Why would her percentage of body fat cause you to presume that she doesn't work out and is lazy?
Not once in this statement did you make any claim to representing the opinions of public media. Here's a clue... if public media felt like you do about Kate Upton... then she wouldn't have a career for us to acknowledge and we wouldn't be discussing this now.
Sigh. You would need to read through the entire thread to see the subsequent statements I made to get the full version of what I said about the media and the fashion industry apart from Kate Upton specifically... I was responding to other generalizations people were making about models.. .and my responses on that topic were not as opinion based as my assessment of Kate Upton.0 -
Well models should also represent health while they're at it. Nothing wrong with fantasy models, just not enough average ones out there. Everywhere you turn you see size 0 models. No wonder girls who are Kate's size think they're fat..
Models are not making a public service announcement. They are selling ****.
You seem to have a rather shocking lack of understanding of how the media influences individuals. Wow. Just oh wow!
The media influences individuals who can't wrap their heads around that fact that it's a fantasy. That's my whole point. Let the fantasy be the fantasy that it is. Don't conflate it with reality and get all bent out of shape because the two don't measure up. They aren't supposed to. That's why it sells. You're the one who doesn't seem to understand.
maybe YOU dont understand that not everyone's fantasy is what YOU think it is.
^ This and "the individulas who can't wrap their heads that it's fantasy" are usually adolescent girls and it can be damaging to fragile self esteem.0 -
She's not fat, but I do find her weight average and that's not good enough for a model.
We need more average models. These really thin, airbrushed ones we have are the reason why so many girls have eating disorders.
What do we need average models for? We have average people everywhere. Models are supposed to represent a FANTASY. We can't handle the fact that we aren't perfect so we have to make art that's mediocre? C'mon.
Fashion models are NOT meant to be a fantasy. They are meant to present the clothing in an appealing way to the public. The reason that models are generally thin is because they are displaying the "demo version" of the clothing. Designers want to spend as little as possible on the demo as a means to keep costs low. So the "demo version" of the clothing is made in the smallest size possible. For the most part, this cost is minimal, but since employing this practice, society has embraced this rail-thin model as some ideal for beauty and have put this ideal on a pedestal.
Pinup models are meant to be a fantasy and generally carry a larger percentage of body fat than a fashion model.
To each their own. If you feel like the fashion model ideal is right for you, then I wish you luck at it. But that doesn't mean the models with a higher percentage of body fat are lazy or are not beautiful or ideal. Your opinions border dangerously on the line of body-shaming and I think you should reevaluate your opinions because you sound ignorant.
*standing ovation* Thank you. Just.... thank you. :flowerforyou:
Everyone who is calling me ignorant and body shaming... etc. I didn't say this is MY ideal or MY fantasy, or that it's right or wrong or even express MY opinion about what's right or wrong or how things should be. I just gave an honest appraisal of how the media actually works and how it uses bodies and body image to sell products. Your opinions and my opinions about how the media should be don't change how it is or what actually sells products, so please stop with the personal attacks. Thanks.
Nope, sorry...
...I'm unpersuaded by your current argument...
...mostly because it seems to have no connection to your original statement.
So read the rest of my statements...0 -
Sigh. You would need to read through the entire thread to see the subsequent statements I made to get the full version of what I said about the media and the fashion industry apart from Kate Upton specifically... I was responding to other generalizations people were making about models.. .and my responses on that topic were not as opinion based as my assessment of Kate Upton.
I could honestly care less what other statements you made about the media because the fact of the matter is that you aren't a representative of the entire whole of media. As I said, fashion models are fashion models and pinups are pinups. The last time I checked, Sports Illustrated was not a fashion magazine, but you clearly stated your shock and dismay that they selected her for the cover because she does not conform to your ideal, and you made the rather egregerious assumption that she doesn't work out.
Short of stating that you are matter-of-factly wrong, there really isn't anything you can say to dig yourself out of that hole!0 -
She's not fat, but I do find her weight average and that's not good enough for a model.
We need more average models. These really thin, airbrushed ones we have are the reason why so many girls have eating disorders.
What do we need average models for? We have average people everywhere. Models are supposed to represent a FANTASY. We can't handle the fact that we aren't perfect so we have to make art that's mediocre? C'mon.
Fashion models are NOT meant to be a fantasy. They are meant to present the clothing in an appealing way to the public. The reason that models are generally thin is because they are displaying the "demo version" of the clothing. Designers want to spend as little as possible on the demo as a means to keep costs low. So the "demo version" of the clothing is made in the smallest size possible. For the most part, this cost is minimal, but since employing this practice, society has embraced this rail-thin model as some ideal for beauty and have put this ideal on a pedestal.
Pinup models are meant to be a fantasy and generally carry a larger percentage of body fat than a fashion model.
To each their own. If you feel like the fashion model ideal is right for you, then I wish you luck at it. But that doesn't mean the models with a higher percentage of body fat are lazy or are not beautiful or ideal. Your opinions border dangerously on the line of body-shaming and I think you should reevaluate your opinions because you sound ignorant.
*standing ovation* Thank you. Just.... thank you. :flowerforyou:
Everyone who is calling me ignorant and body shaming... etc. I didn't say this is MY ideal or MY fantasy, or that it's right or wrong or even express MY opinion about what's right or wrong or how things should be. I just gave an honest appraisal of how the media actually works and how it uses bodies and body image to sell products. Your opinions and my opinions about how the media should be don't change how it is or what actually sells products, so please stop with the personal attacks. Thanks.
Nope, sorry...
...I'm unpersuaded by your current argument...
...mostly because it seems to have no connection to your original statement.
So read the rest of my statements, dip****.
and now we're at name calling over a thread about a celebrity model 99% of us don't even know. Awesome. This is why we can't have nice things....0 -
She's not fat, but I do find her weight average and that's not good enough for a model.
We need more average models. These really thin, airbrushed ones we have are the reason why so many girls have eating disorders.
What do we need average models for? We have average people everywhere. Models are supposed to represent a FANTASY. We can't handle the fact that we aren't perfect so we have to make art that's mediocre? C'mon.
Fashion models are NOT meant to be a fantasy. They are meant to present the clothing in an appealing way to the public. The reason that models are generally thin is because they are displaying the "demo version" of the clothing. Designers want to spend as little as possible on the demo as a means to keep costs low. So the "demo version" of the clothing is made in the smallest size possible. For the most part, this cost is minimal, but since employing this practice, society has embraced this rail-thin model as some ideal for beauty and have put this ideal on a pedestal.
Pinup models are meant to be a fantasy and generally carry a larger percentage of body fat than a fashion model.
To each their own. If you feel like the fashion model ideal is right for you, then I wish you luck at it. But that doesn't mean the models with a higher percentage of body fat are lazy or are not beautiful or ideal. Your opinions border dangerously on the line of body-shaming and I think you should reevaluate your opinions because you sound ignorant.
*standing ovation* Thank you. Just.... thank you. :flowerforyou:
Everyone who is calling me ignorant and body shaming... etc. I didn't say this is MY ideal or MY fantasy, or that it's right or wrong or even express MY opinion about what's right or wrong or how things should be. I just gave an honest appraisal of how the media actually works and how it uses bodies and body image to sell products. Your opinions and my opinions about how the media should be don't change how it is or what actually sells products, so please stop with the personal attacks. Thanks.
Nope, sorry...
...I'm unpersuaded by your current argument...
...mostly because it seems to have no connection to your original statement.
So read the rest of my statements, dip****.
No thanks. Your first post in this thread told me all I needed to know.
(However, the post quoted above is providing some additional insight.)0 -
She's not fat, but I do find her weight average and that's not good enough for a model.
We need more average models. These really thin, airbrushed ones we have are the reason why so many girls have eating disorders.
What do we need average models for? We have average people everywhere. Models are supposed to represent a FANTASY. We can't handle the fact that we aren't perfect so we have to make art that's mediocre? C'mon.
Fashion models are NOT meant to be a fantasy. They are meant to present the clothing in an appealing way to the public. The reason that models are generally thin is because they are displaying the "demo version" of the clothing. Designers want to spend as little as possible on the demo as a means to keep costs low. So the "demo version" of the clothing is made in the smallest size possible. For the most part, this cost is minimal, but since employing this practice, society has embraced this rail-thin model as some ideal for beauty and have put this ideal on a pedestal.
Pinup models are meant to be a fantasy and generally carry a larger percentage of body fat than a fashion model.
To each their own. If you feel like the fashion model ideal is right for you, then I wish you luck at it. But that doesn't mean the models with a higher percentage of body fat are lazy or are not beautiful or ideal. Your opinions border dangerously on the line of body-shaming and I think you should reevaluate your opinions because you sound ignorant.
*standing ovation* Thank you. Just.... thank you. :flowerforyou:
Everyone who is calling me ignorant and body shaming... etc. I didn't say this is MY ideal or MY fantasy, or that it's right or wrong or even express MY opinion about what's right or wrong or how things should be. I just gave an honest appraisal of how the media actually works and how it uses bodies and body image to sell products. Your opinions and my opinions about how the media should be don't change how it is or what actually sells products, so please stop with the personal attacks. Thanks.
Nope, sorry...
...I'm unpersuaded by your current argument...
...mostly because it seems to have no connection to your original statement.
So read the rest of my statements, dip****.
No thanks. Your first post in this thread told me all I needed to know.
(However, the post quoted above is providing some additional insight.)
LOL @ "additional insight"
This is how you last to 6,000+ posts.
P.S. Kate Upton is super hot. How are we even having a skinny vs. fat thread about this woman? She is much more representative of the "average" female than all of the coked up, twig girls you see on the runway. It is very important to make the distinction (which has already been made, so I reiterate) between pinups and runway models. Two different jobs...that is like comparing an endurance runner and a sprinter!
EDIT: Don't get riled up about the drug comment. I am referencing a stereotype in jest.0 -
I'm about half her size and I'm disgusting to look at. If someone has decided to call her fat then so be it. She looks great whatever the label.
This made me sad. You shouldn't say you are disgusting to look at.
I agree. I bet you are beautiful.0 -
All I can say is.........where are the short models?!!! I will never be considered model worthy, plus size or otherwise! Oh the injustice!It's not my fault I'm veritically challenged! Sigh, my self esteem will never recover from this :sad: :sad: :sad:0
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She's not toned, but she looks fantastic nevertheless. Don't forget that cameras add 10 lbs, so in real life she would still be slimmer than the vast majority of us.0
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Threads like this make me sooooo stabby.0
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All I can say is.........where are the short models?!!! I will never be considered model worthy, plus size or otherwise! Oh the injustice!It's not my fault I'm veritically challenged! Sigh, my self esteem will never recover from this :sad: :sad: :sad:
I always say that I wasn't overweight, I was undertall!
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Threads like this make me sooooo stabby.
yep.
and while it is my responsibility as a parent to try to teach self esteem to my children there are so many variables that I don't have control over. To even think as a parent you have absolute control over teaching these things or controlling them is delusional. and to think that your *teaching* is going to override everything they hear or see is also delusional.0 -
She's not fat, but I do find her weight average and that's not good enough for a model.
We need more average models. These really thin, airbrushed ones we have are the reason why so many girls have eating disorders.
What do we need average models for? We have average people everywhere. Models are supposed to represent a FANTASY. We can't handle the fact that we aren't perfect so we have to make art that's mediocre? C'mon.
Well models should also represent health while they're at it. Nothing wrong with fantasy models, just not enough average ones out there. Everywhere you turn you see size 0 models. No wonder girls who are Kate's size think they're fat..
I totally agree. We need more average models like we need more average intelligence doctors and physicists. All those smarty pants types giving people of average intelligence low self esteem. It's just not fair.
Oh there are plenty of average intelligence doctors.
Can I just add that intelligence can be quantified while beauty is subjective, and therefore, the analogy of models to doctors is apples to oranges.
Regardless of the objectivity of intelligence (quite open to debate in its own right), thh comparison was simply meant as an observation on the status of the relative importance of intelligence vs. beauty in popular culture. People get seriously worked up about how they look and then spew hate towards models because they apparently set "unrealistic standards of beauty," and yet no one is running around angrily complaining about how Stephen Hawking is setting unreasonable standards of intelligence. It's just an observation on the state of things. One can always lose weight, but adding IQ points is an entirely different matter. I won't discard the importance of beauty, and health is vital, but I truly hope (and strive to help) my girls spend far more time working hard and achieving in school than worrying about how they look. The rest of the time I'm pushing them in athletics.
Kate Upton is beautiful and she certainly isn't fat. It seems though that people go out of their way to catch a model or actress looking less than her best so they can gossip. Pop culture . . . :grumble:0 -
All I can say is.........where are the short models?!!! I will never be considered model worthy, plus size or otherwise! Oh the injustice!It's not my fault I'm veritically challenged! Sigh, my self esteem will never recover from this :sad: :sad: :sad:
There are apparently also petite models, although I never heard about this until recently (at age 35). Not sure how much work there is for that, though.
But, Kate Upton is not a clothing model or a fashion model (as far as I know). She is a model for gentlemen magazines and for those purposes. So, the same rules and calling her plus sized and all that does not apply. That's not the type of model that she is. That's why they dress her in bras and bikinis that are too small. They would not do that if she were a clothing or fashion model.0
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