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Is the amount of easy access processed food harming dieters health?
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In that there has been significant discussion about how people use the term "processed" in a confusing and incorrect manner, at this point I think it's clear that we know no such thing.
If someone asked if I used processed foods I'd say of course, and the main things I'd be thinking of are things like bagged spinach and canned beans and dried pasta and protein powder and of course cottage cheese and cheese and yogurt and smoked salmon and frozen fish. Yet numerous people on this site seem to claim they have cut out processed foods while eating all of those things or some combination thereof (yes, even protein powder, in much higher amounts than I do, often).
It's truly puzzling.
Meat by definition has to go to a processor to be sold commercially in my state (and most states).
Why the resistance to using terms correctly and being more clear about what is meant. If you mean foods with certain ingredients or convenience foods or some such, it's not all that hard to specify that.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »markrgeary1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »karenlwashburn wrote: »My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.
I don't understand a definition of "processed" that excludes things like cheese and yogurt. Why would bread be okay but pancake batter be unacceptable?
Depends, how did you make the pancake batter? If like many folks you used Bisquick it's loaded with trans fats(at least in the US).
Then it's pancake mix that is the issue, not pancake batter (which I make from scratch).
Which mix are you talking about with the trans fats? Original doesn't seem to have trans fats: https://www.generalmills.com/~/media/Images/Brands/Nutritional_Images/Betty_Crocker/Bisquick/Bisquick_Original.JPG0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »markrgeary1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »karenlwashburn wrote: »My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.
I don't understand a definition of "processed" that excludes things like cheese and yogurt. Why would bread be okay but pancake batter be unacceptable?
Depends, how did you make the pancake batter? If like many folks you used Bisquick it's loaded with trans fats(at least in the US).
Then it's pancake mix that is the issue, not pancake batter (which I make from scratch).
Which mix are you talking about with the trans fats? Original doesn't seem to have trans fats: https://www.generalmills.com/~/media/Images/Brands/Nutritional_Images/Betty_Crocker/Bisquick/Bisquick_Original.JPG
It might contain 0 trans fats per 1/3 cup serving but the ingredients list includes partially hydrogenated oils and means trans fat.
They make a "Heart Smart' version without them
https://www.generalmills.com/~/media/Images/Brands/Nutritional_Images/Betty_Crocker/Bisquick/Bisquick_Heart_Smart.JPG0 -
karenlwashburn wrote: »My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.
most of your "ok" food are processed...
why are you comparing a veggie burger to a meat burger, that seems an unfair comparison point.
so canned tuna is OK because it is probably fish, but it is not as good as tuna that you cook....that makes no sense.
just because someone says it is fresh tuna, does not mean that it was not caught, frozen, packaged, shipped, and then unfrozen and put out in the market....
this just shows the insanity of trying to classify foods as good or bad...
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »markrgeary1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »karenlwashburn wrote: »My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.
I don't understand a definition of "processed" that excludes things like cheese and yogurt. Why would bread be okay but pancake batter be unacceptable?
Depends, how did you make the pancake batter? If like many folks you used Bisquick it's loaded with trans fats(at least in the US).
Then it's pancake mix that is the issue, not pancake batter (which I make from scratch).
Which mix are you talking about with the trans fats? Original doesn't seem to have trans fats: https://www.generalmills.com/~/media/Images/Brands/Nutritional_Images/Betty_Crocker/Bisquick/Bisquick_Original.JPG
It might contain 0 trans fats per 1/3 cup serving but the ingredients list includes partially hydrogenated oils and means trans fat.
They make a "Heart Smart' version without them
https://www.generalmills.com/~/media/Images/Brands/Nutritional_Images/Betty_Crocker/Bisquick/Bisquick_Heart_Smart.JPG
I don't know if I would consider that "loaded" with trans fats, but thank you.
I still wouldn't put much trust in a doctor who told me to avoid pancake batter. If the purpose of the recommendation is to avoid trans fats, you can easily purchase a mix that is completely free of trans fats or make your own pancakes at home.0 -
ClosetBayesian wrote: »karmelpopcorn wrote: »I think more dangerous than canned chicken are meats cured with sulfites-deli meats, hot dogs, etc. And meat in order to not be carcinogenic has to be eaten in SMALL quantities. Processed foods DO harm people. Nearly 90% of all Americans get high blood pressure in their lifetimes.
I agree that food needs to be fresh and sustainable in order to make the journey to health but yes some are just focused on weight loss and how they look in their jeggings.
Where do you get 90% from? NIH says 65% of Americans age 60 or older.karmelpopcorn wrote: »Okay well even at 65%?
I had heard in other places that it was 90%.
But let's use 65%
Let's also use age 60 and older. Aging happens. If it were 65% of the population age 40 and up, that might be cause for concern; but at age 60 or so, I'm less convinced that there's a problem that can be pinned on sulfites or processed foods specifically.
Yeah. To an extent it could just be a feature of old age that isn't entirely preventable or necessarily as harmful as the same blood pressure in a younger individual. A similar thought is being proposed around BMI measurements - that gaining some weight in old age may be viewed as normal, while staying one's weight may indicate health problems. It could also easily be linked to the changes in activity level many have as they enter retirement.
For example, loss of blood vessel elasticity similar to the loss of skin elasticity that effects everyone as they age.0 -
My pancake mix has great macros... I love processed food...
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janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »markrgeary1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »karenlwashburn wrote: »My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.
I don't understand a definition of "processed" that excludes things like cheese and yogurt. Why would bread be okay but pancake batter be unacceptable?
Depends, how did you make the pancake batter? If like many folks you used Bisquick it's loaded with trans fats(at least in the US).
Then it's pancake mix that is the issue, not pancake batter (which I make from scratch).
Which mix are you talking about with the trans fats? Original doesn't seem to have trans fats: https://www.generalmills.com/~/media/Images/Brands/Nutritional_Images/Betty_Crocker/Bisquick/Bisquick_Original.JPG
It might contain 0 trans fats per 1/3 cup serving but the ingredients list includes partially hydrogenated oils and means trans fat.
They make a "Heart Smart' version without them
https://www.generalmills.com/~/media/Images/Brands/Nutritional_Images/Betty_Crocker/Bisquick/Bisquick_Heart_Smart.JPG
I don't know if I would consider that "loaded" with trans fats, but thank you.
I still wouldn't put much trust in a doctor who told me to avoid pancake batter. If the purpose of the recommendation is to avoid trans fats, you can easily purchase a mix that is completely free of trans fats or make your own pancakes at home.
Yes. Last time I had pancakes they were high fiber with some Bob's Red Mill whole grain mix, egg, and blueberries. Still processed, of course, but the assumptions that pancakes means whatever (transfats?) is odd. Again, why not look at the specifics than some odd usage of the term "processed."0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »markrgeary1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »karenlwashburn wrote: »My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.
I don't understand a definition of "processed" that excludes things like cheese and yogurt. Why would bread be okay but pancake batter be unacceptable?
Depends, how did you make the pancake batter? If like many folks you used Bisquick it's loaded with trans fats(at least in the US).
Then it's pancake mix that is the issue, not pancake batter (which I make from scratch).
Which mix are you talking about with the trans fats? Original doesn't seem to have trans fats: https://www.generalmills.com/~/media/Images/Brands/Nutritional_Images/Betty_Crocker/Bisquick/Bisquick_Original.JPG
It might contain 0 trans fats per 1/3 cup serving but the ingredients list includes partially hydrogenated oils and means trans fat.
They make a "Heart Smart' version without them
https://www.generalmills.com/~/media/Images/Brands/Nutritional_Images/Betty_Crocker/Bisquick/Bisquick_Heart_Smart.JPG
I don't know if I would consider that "loaded" with trans fats, but thank you.
I still wouldn't put much trust in a doctor who told me to avoid pancake batter. If the purpose of the recommendation is to avoid trans fats, you can easily purchase a mix that is completely free of trans fats or make your own pancakes at home.
Yes. Last time I had pancakes they were high fiber with some Bob's Red Mill whole grain mix, egg, and blueberries. Still processed, of course, but the assumptions that pancakes means whatever (transfats?) is odd. Again, why not look at the specifics than some odd usage of the term "processed."
The inclusion of bread while excluding pancakes makes zero sense. That is the kind of irrational category I see all too often in discussions like this.
Whatever is "wrong" with pancakes, you can easily remedy -- as your example shows. You want them without trans fats? Okay. You want them with whole grains? Sure. You want them without gluten? We can do that. You want them without animal products? Done. You want them made from scratch? Absolutely. You want them lower in fat or carbohydrates or higher in protein than usual? Yeah, we've got recipes for that.
It's so much more useful to give people tools to identify foods that don't meet their needs. Then they can choose the "right" pancake for them instead of just avoiding pancakes for no reason.0 -
I often wonder if the recommendations like this latest one which presumably came from a doctor is that medical professionals assume that people will not put forth the effort or engage in the mindfulness to differentiate between what actually goes into foods and so they make widespread sweeping recommendations like "avoid processed foods" or "cut out carbs" because they just want people to make changes for their health and even an uninformed, ignorant and sort of blind attempt to follow the orders will result in things moving in the right direction?
I don't know if that says more about the doctor or the patients...1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I often wonder if the recommendations like this latest one which presumably came from a doctor is that medical professionals assume that people will not put forth the effort or engage in the mindfulness to differentiate between what actually goes into foods and so they make widespread sweeping recommendations like "avoid processed foods" or "cut out carbs" because they just want people to make changes for their health and even an uninformed, ignorant and sort of blind attempt to follow the orders will result in things moving in the right direction?
I don't know if that says more about the doctor or the patients...
Kinda the way I look at it. The whole "Don't eat processed foods" and "cut your carbs" is just the easy answer to give to people who are uninformed.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I often wonder if the recommendations like this latest one which presumably came from a doctor is that medical professionals assume that people will not put forth the effort or engage in the mindfulness to differentiate between what actually goes into foods and so they make widespread sweeping recommendations like "avoid processed foods" or "cut out carbs" because they just want people to make changes for their health and even an uninformed, ignorant and sort of blind attempt to follow the orders will result in things moving in the right direction?
I don't know if that says more about the doctor or the patients...
Kinda the way I look at it. The whole "Don't eat processed foods" and "cut your carbs" is just the easy answer to give to people who are uninformed.
Except if someone is uninformed it seems they just get confused about what "processed" is. Like the threads here asking "is protein powder processed" (duh) or "is deli meat processed?" or "is greek yogurt processed?"
I kind of wonder if stuff like the doctor's advice here was actually "avoid high GL foods" or some such, which the poster interpreted as "processed." So many people seem to use "processed" to mean "foods I think I should not eat" as opposed to any actual definition. (Kind of like some used to use "socialist" to mean "policies I am against.")0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I often wonder if the recommendations like this latest one which presumably came from a doctor is that medical professionals assume that people will not put forth the effort or engage in the mindfulness to differentiate between what actually goes into foods and so they make widespread sweeping recommendations like "avoid processed foods" or "cut out carbs" because they just want people to make changes for their health and even an uninformed, ignorant and sort of blind attempt to follow the orders will result in things moving in the right direction?
I don't know if that says more about the doctor or the patients...
Kinda the way I look at it. The whole "Don't eat processed foods" and "cut your carbs" is just the easy answer to give to people who are uninformed.
Except if someone is uninformed it seems they just get confused about what "processed" is. Like the threads here asking "is protein powder processed" (duh) or "is deli meat processed?" or "is greek yogurt processed?"
I kind of wonder if stuff like the doctor's advice here was actually "avoid high GL foods" or some such, which the poster interpreted as "processed." So many people seem to use "processed" to mean "foods I think I should not eat" as opposed to any actual definition. (Kind of like some used to use "socialist" to mean "policies I am against.")
I'm sure there are confused people who ask for clarification, there are probably others who are confused and don't have a forum like this to ask, and there are still others who just subjectively interpret what the doctor meant and assume they are on the right track.
I agree that everyone should try to be more intelligent about the recommendations and what specifically they are supposed to be changing in order to achieve the desired results - however, that's just not the nature of our society today. Look at the way people make decisions like choosing a political candidate to back, considering a possible mate, etc. our society today (and I'm speaking primarily about Americans) tends toward using quick tag lines and as brief information as possible for clicks, swipes and likes. I'm done being surprised that people hear "reduce carbs" and assume that the doctor meant that they avoid fruits and vegetables in favor of drinking 400 cals of fat in their coffee and call that healthy.
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WinoGelato wrote: »I often wonder if the recommendations like this latest one which presumably came from a doctor is that medical professionals assume that people will not put forth the effort or engage in the mindfulness to differentiate between what actually goes into foods and so they make widespread sweeping recommendations like "avoid processed foods" or "cut out carbs" because they just want people to make changes for their health and even an uninformed, ignorant and sort of blind attempt to follow the orders will result in things moving in the right direction?
I don't know if that says more about the doctor or the patients...
I think this is likely the case, and I think it says a lot about both. But all you have to do is read these forums for a few days to know that it's a not necessarily a bad practice.0 -
Since "easy access processed food" is essentially "anything", I'm going to present the possibility that we're all going die because we ate food while alive.0
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Two cents from this hand: Humans have been processing food from at least the moment someone put a meal over a flame. Smoking; drying; salting; pickling; preserving. All these and more are ways in which we process. Even other animals process their foods on occasion - notably the way a bird or wolf, for example, will serve their babies regurgitated meat.
As someone who needs to watch sodium, and as someone with an uncooperative LDL level, I am a dedicated label-reader (one of my cats has liver issues, and yes, I will stand, squinting at cat food labels too). If anything - from cheese to nuts - has levels of sodium or other ingredients that make me go "hmm", I usually put it back on the shelf. Sometimes I'm lazy, but I try not to be!
To me, there *are* levels of processing that make a difference: I know, for example, generally speaking, what the conglomeration of chemicals which make up yogurt, say, will end up doing in my digestive system, and I know, basically, why I am choosing to consume this conglomeration. I am less sure of what, say, carrageenan added to yogurt will do: I am uncertain of its nutritional value to me. There is, available, yogurt without carrageenan. I prefer to buy that.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I agree that everyone should try to be more intelligent about the recommendations and what specifically they are supposed to be changing in order to achieve the desired results - however, that's just not the nature of our society today. Look at the way people make decisions like choosing a political candidate to back, considering a possible mate, etc. our society today (and I'm speaking primarily about Americans) tends toward using quick tag lines and as brief information as possible for clicks, swipes and likes. I'm done being surprised that people hear "reduce carbs" and assume that the doctor meant that they avoid fruits and vegetables in favor of drinking 400 cals of fat in their coffee and call that healthy.
I know exactly what you mean, but I kind of feel like giving up being surprised at ignorance or that kind of thing would be to give up entirely. I think we need to try and hold people to higher standards and not give in to willful ignorance and over-simplification. Basically, I think people are capable of more, and if my doctor assumed I was too uninformed or incapable of understanding nutrition such that it had to be dumbed down to such a degree, I'd say something to my doctor and if the doctor continued I'd find a new one. It's insulting, to my way of thinking.
Yeah, I'm sometimes a crazy idealist, and I'm feeling frustrated (more about other things beyond MFP).0 -
Perhaps you're discussing an old formulation? Looks like a 0 grams to me, which would allow for up to .5 grams in a serving. Not exactly what I'd call loaded.markrgeary1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »karenlwashburn wrote: »My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.
I don't understand a definition of "processed" that excludes things like cheese and yogurt. Why would bread be okay but pancake batter be unacceptable?
Depends, how did you make the pancake batter? If like many folks you used Bisquick it's loaded with trans fats(at least in the US).
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To me, there *are* levels of processing that make a difference: I know, for example, generally speaking, what the conglomeration of chemicals which make up yogurt, say, will end up doing in my digestive system, and I know, basically, why I am choosing to consume this conglomeration. I am less sure of what, say, carrageenan added to yogurt will do: I am uncertain of its nutritional value to me. There is, available, yogurt without carrageenan. I prefer to buy that.
But this doesn't sound like it's about "levels" of processing, but specific kinds of processing. I make distinctions and read labels too -- that's precisely why just focusing on whether something deserves the label "processed" or not (which as shown by the person who said avoid processed, eat cheese, makes no sense) or even the label "ultra processed" as shown by how arbitrary the distinctions in the definition here is. Does that mean I think all foods are the same? Of course not.0
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