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If it's all CICO - why can't you outrun a bad diet?
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annaskiski wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I would venture to say that the average person eating a cheeseburger is probably not making it, but rather getting it from a fast flood restaurant.
Wow, seriously? I would venture to guess most people grill outside all summer, and make their own cheeseburgers quite often....
Agreed last bought burger I had was from a pub and it has bacon, cheddar cheese and avocado on it...4 oz ground beef and a homemade bun...it was delish.
Not sure when I had a fast food burger last....
Last burger was at home grilled on the bbq with cheese avocado and mayo.0 -
annaskiski wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I would venture to say that the average person eating a cheeseburger is probably not making it, but rather getting it from a fast flood restaurant.
Wow, seriously? I would venture to guess most people grill outside all summer, and make their own cheeseburgers quite often....
Not with Five Guys or Wendy's around. If I'm grilling it will be slabs of beef, fish or lamb. Love a tasty burger though. As for calories, 3000 is just an average day at maintenance.
Wait. What thread is this again?2 -
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Dats a sezzy burger! LOL 0 -
Wickedfaery73 wrote: » Dats a sezzy burger! LOL
no avocado sexiness factor down by 14 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »annaskiski wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I would venture to say that the average person eating a cheeseburger is probably not making it, but rather getting it from a fast flood restaurant.
Wow, seriously? I would venture to guess most people grill outside all summer, and make their own cheeseburgers quite often....
Not with Five Guys or Wendy's around. If I'm grilling it will be slabs of beef, fish or lamb. Love a tasty burger though. As for calories, 3000 is just an average day at maintenance.
Wait. What thread is this again?
I don't have either of those near me.
I've never even ate at a Five Guys and I've traveled to 48 U.S. States and have literally driven right past them (though usually that is in the middle of the night and they are closed). I definitely need to find one of those places.
Honestly, though, I don't have an outside grill. But I do have one of those counter-top grills (George Foreman knock-off) and cook hamburgers on it regularly.0 -
annaskiski wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I would venture to say that the average person eating a cheeseburger is probably not making it, but rather getting it from a fast flood restaurant.
Wow, seriously? I would venture to guess most people grill outside all summer, and make their own cheeseburgers quite often....
McDonald's says they sell 75 hamburgers every second and have sold well over 100 billion hamburgers. While the amount of fast food burgers eaten by me in the past 10 years = zero, people are indeed eating them.2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »If you are looking for debate, you may want to post this in the debate section.
I've never really understood that saying personally, but to answer your question I think you'd have to first define what is meant by a bad diet. Are we talking about a diet that creates a caloric excess, or a diet that is nutritionally deficient?
I meant a diet that is nutritionally bad - if I eat 2,000 calories worth of cheeseburger a day (I don't!) and burn 3,000 calories in a day with exercise - surely that's outrunning a bad diet?
You actually can out run a bad diet. That is a little quip with no basis in fact. In your example, you would be losing two lbs a week.
My diet currently is nowhere near 'healthy' or 'clean'. But my calculations are good and I make sure my activity is high enough so I net a 1 lb loss every week. 8 weeks in 10 lbs down. While I can't run right now due to an ankle injury I am in fact 'out cardioing' a 'bad' diet.
that's where the confusion comes in...imo it's not talking about the value of the nutrients in the food you are eating it's the amount of calories you are consuming.Put your headphones on and start your running app. Run until it says "you have burned 1000 calories", for me between 7 and 8 miles. Now go straight to McDonalds and eat a big mac & fries. Tell me which one takes longer to do, there you will find the answer.
But you're not going to keep eating big macs and fries as soon as you've finished one ... you probably won't want to eat anything for a couple hours. So it balances out.
I go for long bicycle rides on the weekends ... then I come home and eat a Dominos pizza. And I've still burned more calories than I've consumed. That pizza is just replenishing things.
(BTW - I lost 55 lbs during 2015 doing that ^^ )
you are missing the point tho...how many people do 24hour bike trials?
Most people eat too much food for the activity they do but feel if they "have a killer session at the gym" then they can eat all the foods and they can't...why because in fact the maybe burned 500 calories and are consuming 1000 and that's puts them over maintenance.
I guess it just depends in my experience interneting I see that phrase right before 'Abs are made in the kitchen' and 'Eat these 12 superfoods for a six pack'.0 -
I'm sure the percentage that do so on MFP is different than the average citizen in the Western world. That includes me as well, as over 90% of the burgers I eat are homemade/home cooked.annaskiski wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I would venture to say that the average person eating a cheeseburger is probably not making it, but rather getting it from a fast flood restaurant.
Wow, seriously? I would venture to guess most people grill outside all summer, and make their own cheeseburgers quite often....
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WinoGelato wrote: »If you are looking for debate, you may want to post this in the debate section.
I've never really understood that saying personally, but to answer your question I think you'd have to first define what is meant by a bad diet. Are we talking about a diet that creates a caloric excess, or a diet that is nutritionally deficient?
I meant a diet that is nutritionally bad - if I eat 2,000 calories worth of cheeseburger a day (I don't!) and burn 3,000 calories in a day with exercise - surely that's outrunning a bad diet?
You actually can out run a bad diet. That is a little quip with no basis in fact. In your example, you would be losing two lbs a week.
My diet currently is nowhere near 'healthy' or 'clean'. But my calculations are good and I make sure my activity is high enough so I net a 1 lb loss every week. 8 weeks in 10 lbs down. While I can't run right now due to an ankle injury I am in fact 'out cardioing' a 'bad' diet.
that's where the confusion comes in...imo it's not talking about the value of the nutrients in the food you are eating it's the amount of calories you are consuming.Put your headphones on and start your running app. Run until it says "you have burned 1000 calories", for me between 7 and 8 miles. Now go straight to McDonalds and eat a big mac & fries. Tell me which one takes longer to do, there you will find the answer.
But you're not going to keep eating big macs and fries as soon as you've finished one ... you probably won't want to eat anything for a couple hours. So it balances out.
I go for long bicycle rides on the weekends ... then I come home and eat a Dominos pizza. And I've still burned more calories than I've consumed. That pizza is just replenishing things.
(BTW - I lost 55 lbs during 2015 doing that ^^ )
you are missing the point tho...how many people do 24hour bike trials?
Most people eat too much food for the activity they do but feel if they "have a killer session at the gym" then they can eat all the foods and they can't...why because in fact the maybe burned 500 calories and are consuming 1000 and that's puts them over maintenance.
I guess it just depends in my experience interneting I see that phrase right before 'Abs are made in the kitchen' and 'Eat these 12 superfoods for a six pack'.
Yah they are trying to sell a book or something..
but to see abs (6pack) you have to reduce the fat...to reduce fat it's about calorie deficit...you can do all the crunches, planks you want...if you over eat and/or have fat on your belly not gonna see that six pack0 -
I've seen people post on here about how to calculate calories burnt running. I'm sure someone has a better way of doing it, but I used a calculator on SparkPeople. A 175# person running at 6mph for 37 minutes would burn 500 calories. So if a 'bad diet' was defined as eating maintenance, you would have to run 37 minutes every single day to lose a lb of fat each week. But is maintenance really a 'bad diet?' If a bad diet was defined as eating maintenance + 500 calories, you'd have to run for 74 minutes 7 days a week to loose a pound of fat. I workout a lot, but that would be a tough schedule for me to maintain.2
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And what if the person is bulking? Then is eating over maintenance constitute a bad diet? So the answer again is, it depends...2
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MFP Pedantry at its very finest.
Don't ever change.6 -
WinoGelato wrote: »If you are looking for debate, you may want to post this in the debate section.
I've never really understood that saying personally, but to answer your question I think you'd have to first define what is meant by a bad diet. Are we talking about a diet that creates a caloric excess, or a diet that is nutritionally deficient?
I meant a diet that is nutritionally bad - if I eat 2,000 calories worth of cheeseburger a day (I don't!) and burn 3,000 calories in a day with exercise - surely that's outrunning a bad diet?
You actually can out run a bad diet. That is a little quip with no basis in fact. In your example, you would be losing two lbs a week.
My diet currently is nowhere near 'healthy' or 'clean'. But my calculations are good and I make sure my activity is high enough so I net a 1 lb loss every week. 8 weeks in 10 lbs down. While I can't run right now due to an ankle injury I am in fact 'out cardioing' a 'bad' diet.
that's where the confusion comes in...imo it's not talking about the value of the nutrients in the food you are eating it's the amount of calories you are consuming.Put your headphones on and start your running app. Run until it says "you have burned 1000 calories", for me between 7 and 8 miles. Now go straight to McDonalds and eat a big mac & fries. Tell me which one takes longer to do, there you will find the answer.
But you're not going to keep eating big macs and fries as soon as you've finished one ... you probably won't want to eat anything for a couple hours. So it balances out.
I go for long bicycle rides on the weekends ... then I come home and eat a Dominos pizza. And I've still burned more calories than I've consumed. That pizza is just replenishing things.
(BTW - I lost 55 lbs during 2015 doing that ^^ )
you are missing the point tho...how many people do 24hour bike trials?
Most people eat too much food for the activity they do but feel if they "have a killer session at the gym" then they can eat all the foods and they can't...why because in fact the maybe burned 500 calories and are consuming 1000 and that's puts them over maintenance.
I guess it just depends in my experience interneting I see that phrase right before 'Abs are made in the kitchen' and 'Eat these 12 superfoods for a six pack'.
Yah they are trying to sell a book or something..
but to see abs (6pack) you have to reduce the fat...to reduce fat it's about calorie deficit...you can do all the crunches, planks you want...if you over eat and/or have fat on your belly not gonna see that six pack
i know...0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »annaskiski wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I would venture to say that the average person eating a cheeseburger is probably not making it, but rather getting it from a fast flood restaurant.
Wow, seriously? I would venture to guess most people grill outside all summer, and make their own cheeseburgers quite often....
McDonald's says they sell 75 hamburgers every second and have sold well over 100 billion hamburgers. While the amount of fast food burgers eaten by me in the past 10 years = zero, people are indeed eating them.
That wasn't the question.
The question is whether someone who mentions a cheeseburger should be assumed to be thinking only of McD's cheeseburgers. I don't think most people are so limited.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wickedfaery73 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wickedfaery73 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't think I could eat 3000 calories in cheeseburgers, so there's that.
In my teens and early 20s, I could outrun a bad diet, in the sense that I never thought about what I ate and yet did not gain weight.
By my 30s, I could not do that -- I needed to at least be a little mindful, even at my most active.Also, might I suggest we next debate "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" or possibly "a stitch in time saves 9."
Heh, this.
3000 calories would be approximately 6.5 McDoubles
So you are agreeing with me? ;-)
I don't know I bet you probably could, physically at least, eat 6.5 Mcdoubles in a day. LOL They are tiny little things ( to me at least
) I could eat 3 at a time
I dislike McD's burgers, so I doubt it. Don't know about the McDouble as I don't think it existed yet last time I was at a McD's, but research demonstrates that it is .75 the size of a Quarter Pounder (which I can't imagine eating more than one of at a time), so I doubt I could without making a real effort and feeling sick and overstuffed, even over the course of a day. And, of course, that contradicts the idea that people would just consume these calories quickly and without thinking (as with the "it would take me 4 hours to burn off 3000 calories and then I'd eat that back with a cheeseburger" claim I was responding too).
I seriously doubt that thoughtless eating plus a cheeseburger would result in me normally eating anywhere near 3000 calories in a day, and I'd never think to order multiple cheeseburgers. I just don't know why people hypothesize such odd and unusual behavior in these discussions.
Most people gain weight relatively gradually over time, after all.
Appetite and hunger are individual differences, which are ignored by such a simple statement.
Personally, I've never actually eaten more than 4 McDoubles at a single time, but I'm sure I could have had more if I didn't have anything else along with it.
Well, my original statement was that I doubted *I* could eat 3000 calories in cheeseburgers (in what was originally posed as a meal immediately after a huge workout). I didn't say no one could. (I also could manage to eat 3000 calories in a day, I'm sure, although I don't think that's the calorie count I'd hit just by including a cheeseburger.)
The question, though, is whether these extreme scenarios justify the claim that "no one can outrun a bad diet." Let's not forget this all important point! ;-)
I also am trying to find the highest cal widely-available cheeseburger and am failing. Here are a couple that are 1350.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/double-down-by-numbers-unhealthiest/
You see 3K calories a day as extreme, and I don't think that is even close to extreme. Tell me 30K is extreme and I can agree as it is something I can't do every single day... only once in awhile. Again, the original statement we are debating completely ignores individual differences.
ETA: This made me hungry for McDouble's, so for lunch, I just got 2 Mcdouble's with no buns (I'm eating low carb). I'm still just as hungry as before I ate them, but if I had gotten 4 instead of 2, I would only have 22 calories left for dinner tonight.
I have a binging problem myself, but I have problems imagining a 30k day. Can you walk through am example of what you eat in a 30k calorie day?0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »annaskiski wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I would venture to say that the average person eating a cheeseburger is probably not making it, but rather getting it from a fast flood restaurant.
Wow, seriously? I would venture to guess most people grill outside all summer, and make their own cheeseburgers quite often....
Not with Five Guys or Wendy's around. If I'm grilling it will be slabs of beef, fish or lamb. Love a tasty burger though. As for calories, 3000 is just an average day at maintenance.
Wait. What thread is this again?
Ha ha! This, along with the Fruit thread, has been subverted to a discussion of delicious meat product that really, we don't want to outrun. Our work here is done!
I'm a homemade, Steak n' Shake, or Red Robin kinda burger girl myself.3 -
cmriverside wrote: » MFP Pedantry at its very finest.
Don't ever change.
Preach1 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wickedfaery73 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wickedfaery73 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't think I could eat 3000 calories in cheeseburgers, so there's that.
In my teens and early 20s, I could outrun a bad diet, in the sense that I never thought about what I ate and yet did not gain weight.
By my 30s, I could not do that -- I needed to at least be a little mindful, even at my most active.Also, might I suggest we next debate "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" or possibly "a stitch in time saves 9."
Heh, this.
3000 calories would be approximately 6.5 McDoubles
So you are agreeing with me? ;-)
I don't know I bet you probably could, physically at least, eat 6.5 Mcdoubles in a day. LOL They are tiny little things ( to me at least ) I could eat 3 at a time
I dislike McD's burgers, so I doubt it. Don't know about the McDouble as I don't think it existed yet last time I was at a McD's, but research demonstrates that it is .75 the size of a Quarter Pounder (which I can't imagine eating more than one of at a time), so I doubt I could without making a real effort and feeling sick and overstuffed, even over the course of a day. And, of course, that contradicts the idea that people would just consume these calories quickly and without thinking (as with the "it would take me 4 hours to burn off 3000 calories and then I'd eat that back with a cheeseburger" claim I was responding too).
I seriously doubt that thoughtless eating plus a cheeseburger would result in me normally eating anywhere near 3000 calories in a day, and I'd never think to order multiple cheeseburgers. I just don't know why people hypothesize such odd and unusual behavior in these discussions.
Most people gain weight relatively gradually over time, after all.
Appetite and hunger are individual differences, which are ignored by such a simple statement.
Personally, I've never actually eaten more than 4 McDoubles at a single time, but I'm sure I could have had more if I didn't have anything else along with it.
Well, my original statement was that I doubted *I* could eat 3000 calories in cheeseburgers (in what was originally posed as a meal immediately after a huge workout). I didn't say no one could. (I also could manage to eat 3000 calories in a day, I'm sure, although I don't think that's the calorie count I'd hit just by including a cheeseburger.)
The question, though, is whether these extreme scenarios justify the claim that "no one can outrun a bad diet." Let's not forget this all important point! ;-)
I also am trying to find the highest cal widely-available cheeseburger and am failing. Here are a couple that are 1350.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/double-down-by-numbers-unhealthiest/
You see 3K calories a day as extreme, and I don't think that is even close to extreme. Tell me 30K is extreme and I can agree as it is something I can't do every single day... only once in awhile. Again, the original statement we are debating completely ignores individual differences.
ETA: This made me hungry for McDouble's, so for lunch, I just got 2 Mcdouble's with no buns (I'm eating low carb). I'm still just as hungry as before I ate them, but if I had gotten 4 instead of 2, I would only have 22 calories left for dinner tonight.
I have a binging problem myself, but I have problems imagining a 30k day. Can you walk through am example of what you eat in a 30k calorie day?
Does it involve an olive oil stupor on the couch?0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wickedfaery73 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wickedfaery73 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't think I could eat 3000 calories in cheeseburgers, so there's that.
In my teens and early 20s, I could outrun a bad diet, in the sense that I never thought about what I ate and yet did not gain weight.
By my 30s, I could not do that -- I needed to at least be a little mindful, even at my most active.Also, might I suggest we next debate "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" or possibly "a stitch in time saves 9."
Heh, this.
3000 calories would be approximately 6.5 McDoubles
So you are agreeing with me? ;-)
I don't know I bet you probably could, physically at least, eat 6.5 Mcdoubles in a day. LOL They are tiny little things ( to me at least ) I could eat 3 at a time
I dislike McD's burgers, so I doubt it. Don't know about the McDouble as I don't think it existed yet last time I was at a McD's, but research demonstrates that it is .75 the size of a Quarter Pounder (which I can't imagine eating more than one of at a time), so I doubt I could without making a real effort and feeling sick and overstuffed, even over the course of a day. And, of course, that contradicts the idea that people would just consume these calories quickly and without thinking (as with the "it would take me 4 hours to burn off 3000 calories and then I'd eat that back with a cheeseburger" claim I was responding too).
I seriously doubt that thoughtless eating plus a cheeseburger would result in me normally eating anywhere near 3000 calories in a day, and I'd never think to order multiple cheeseburgers. I just don't know why people hypothesize such odd and unusual behavior in these discussions.
Most people gain weight relatively gradually over time, after all.
Appetite and hunger are individual differences, which are ignored by such a simple statement.
Personally, I've never actually eaten more than 4 McDoubles at a single time, but I'm sure I could have had more if I didn't have anything else along with it.
Well, my original statement was that I doubted *I* could eat 3000 calories in cheeseburgers (in what was originally posed as a meal immediately after a huge workout). I didn't say no one could. (I also could manage to eat 3000 calories in a day, I'm sure, although I don't think that's the calorie count I'd hit just by including a cheeseburger.)
The question, though, is whether these extreme scenarios justify the claim that "no one can outrun a bad diet." Let's not forget this all important point! ;-)
I also am trying to find the highest cal widely-available cheeseburger and am failing. Here are a couple that are 1350.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/double-down-by-numbers-unhealthiest/
You see 3K calories a day as extreme, and I don't think that is even close to extreme. Tell me 30K is extreme and I can agree as it is something I can't do every single day... only once in awhile. Again, the original statement we are debating completely ignores individual differences.
ETA: This made me hungry for McDouble's, so for lunch, I just got 2 Mcdouble's with no buns (I'm eating low carb). I'm still just as hungry as before I ate them, but if I had gotten 4 instead of 2, I would only have 22 calories left for dinner tonight.
Link to your diary on a day where you hit 30k? I'm a relatively big eater (when not cutting like I am now :grumble:). I can't even imagine what that would look like.0
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