Obesity Journal study: It's not just CICO

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Replies

  • KetoneKaren
    KetoneKaren Posts: 6,412 Member
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    Hell big pharma is the reason why insulin shots exist.

    NOPE, the man who won the Nobel for isolating insulin, Dr. Banting, gave his patent away for free because he believed this life-saving drug should be available to everyone who needed it. Big Pharma is the reason new (but not necessarily more effective) versions of insulin are constantly created when patents run out so that they can keep the prices as high as possible.

    Insulin is an amazing drug for type 1 diabetics. It's the reason two of my immediate family members are still alive today. Insulin, however, is a horrible treatment for type 2 diabetics, and does nothing to cure the root cause of their disease, but instead exacerbates it.

    Lantus was #6 in the top 10 most profitable drugs in 2014, grossing 7.28 billion. http://qz.com/349929/best-selling-drugs-in-the-world/
    The diabetes epidemic is nothing but good news to the only 3 companies in the US that produce insulin: Eli Lilly, Sanofi and Novo Nordisk. With that kind of money on the line, do you think they would be careless enough to share nutrition advice that actually enabled people to prevent their potential or stop their current use of insulin?

    That nutrition advice is confusing garbage for good reason.

    @psulemon

    Searching through the web you can find so many examples of people who stopped T2 diabetes in its tracks by not listening to the stupid ADA, and not listening to their stupid doctor. They simply cut out refined sugar, fruit juice and grains from their diet, limited fruit consumption, and Voila! - no T2 diabetes.

    But without funding from Big Pharma, the ADA would be mostly out of business. So they recommend a too-high carb diet, which keeps people or makes people diabetic. It is criminal, and it is a disgrace.

    And if you watch cable news, you are inundated with the latest and greatest diabetes drug. And next year there will be another one that reduces blood sugars 1% more than the current one.

    Dr. Banting is rolling in his grave.

    Totally agree. It's an utter disgrace. The vast majority of people are totally clueless. Even diabetes educators at the hospital know that the ketogenic diet works so much better for T2DM, but their hands are tied and they aren't allowed to teach it. ADA guidelines are taught to protect medicare/medicaid reimbursement.

    Hogwash

    Get a clue.... and you already mentioned you work for Big Pharma, so... I'm not surprised.

    Absolute and utter hogwash.
    And what's worse, 100% falsifiable by 5 seconds of googling.

    http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/understanding-carbohydrates/

    Wow, look at them just telling you to eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication!

    That's the kind of BS claims that make me actually angry, because there's just no excuse.

    You don't realize it, but you just made her point for her by publishing this link.
  • Crisseyda
    Crisseyda Posts: 532 Member
    edited June 2016
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    Hell big pharma is the reason why insulin shots exist.

    NOPE, the man who won the Nobel for isolating insulin, Dr. Banting, gave his patent away for free because he believed this life-saving drug should be available to everyone who needed it. Big Pharma is the reason new (but not necessarily more effective) versions of insulin are constantly created when patents run out so that they can keep the prices as high as possible.

    Insulin is an amazing drug for type 1 diabetics. It's the reason two of my immediate family members are still alive today. Insulin, however, is a horrible treatment for type 2 diabetics, and does nothing to cure the root cause of their disease, but instead exacerbates it.

    Lantus was #6 in the top 10 most profitable drugs in 2014, grossing 7.28 billion. http://qz.com/349929/best-selling-drugs-in-the-world/
    The diabetes epidemic is nothing but good news to the only 3 companies in the US that produce insulin: Eli Lilly, Sanofi and Novo Nordisk. With that kind of money on the line, do you think they would be careless enough to share nutrition advice that actually enabled people to prevent their potential or stop their current use of insulin?

    That nutrition advice is confusing garbage for good reason.

    @psulemon

    Searching through the web you can find so many examples of people who stopped T2 diabetes in its tracks by not listening to the stupid ADA, and not listening to their stupid doctor. They simply cut out refined sugar, fruit juice and grains from their diet, limited fruit consumption, and Voila! - no T2 diabetes.

    But without funding from Big Pharma, the ADA would be mostly out of business. So they recommend a too-high carb diet, which keeps people or makes people diabetic. It is criminal, and it is a disgrace.

    And if you watch cable news, you are inundated with the latest and greatest diabetes drug. And next year there will be another one that reduces blood sugars 1% more than the current one.

    Dr. Banting is rolling in his grave.

    Totally agree. It's an utter disgrace. The vast majority of people are totally clueless. Even diabetes educators at the hospital know that the ketogenic diet works so much better for T2DM, but their hands are tied and they aren't allowed to teach it. ADA guidelines are taught to protect medicare/medicaid reimbursement.

    Hogwash

    Get a clue.... and you already mentioned you work for Big Pharma, so... I'm not surprised.

    Absolute and utter hogwash.
    And what's worse, 100% falsifiable by 5 seconds of googling.

    http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/understanding-carbohydrates/

    Wow, look at them just telling you to eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication!

    That's the kind of BS claims that make me actually angry, because there's just no excuse.

    I'm confused, Steven. What exactly is this link suppose to confirm? You're building a strawman by saying "eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication." The point is: that 45-60 g of carbs per meal is arbitrary and unhelpful. T2DM is a dietary disease, and it needs a dietary cure. If these people want to heal their underlying disease and get off medication, they need intensive changes. Changes the ADA is not telling them about.
  • KetoneKaren
    KetoneKaren Posts: 6,412 Member
    Yes. that link
  • snickerscharlie
    snickerscharlie Posts: 8,578 Member
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    Hell big pharma is the reason why insulin shots exist.

    NOPE, the man who won the Nobel for isolating insulin, Dr. Banting, gave his patent away for free because he believed this life-saving drug should be available to everyone who needed it. Big Pharma is the reason new (but not necessarily more effective) versions of insulin are constantly created when patents run out so that they can keep the prices as high as possible.

    Insulin is an amazing drug for type 1 diabetics. It's the reason two of my immediate family members are still alive today. Insulin, however, is a horrible treatment for type 2 diabetics, and does nothing to cure the root cause of their disease, but instead exacerbates it.

    Lantus was #6 in the top 10 most profitable drugs in 2014, grossing 7.28 billion. http://qz.com/349929/best-selling-drugs-in-the-world/
    The diabetes epidemic is nothing but good news to the only 3 companies in the US that produce insulin: Eli Lilly, Sanofi and Novo Nordisk. With that kind of money on the line, do you think they would be careless enough to share nutrition advice that actually enabled people to prevent their potential or stop their current use of insulin?

    That nutrition advice is confusing garbage for good reason.

    @psulemon

    Searching through the web you can find so many examples of people who stopped T2 diabetes in its tracks by not listening to the stupid ADA, and not listening to their stupid doctor. They simply cut out refined sugar, fruit juice and grains from their diet, limited fruit consumption, and Voila! - no T2 diabetes.

    But without funding from Big Pharma, the ADA would be mostly out of business. So they recommend a too-high carb diet, which keeps people or makes people diabetic. It is criminal, and it is a disgrace.

    And if you watch cable news, you are inundated with the latest and greatest diabetes drug. And next year there will be another one that reduces blood sugars 1% more than the current one.

    Dr. Banting is rolling in his grave.

    Totally agree. It's an utter disgrace. The vast majority of people are totally clueless. Even diabetes educators at the hospital know that the ketogenic diet works so much better for T2DM, but their hands are tied and they aren't allowed to teach it. ADA guidelines are taught to protect medicare/medicaid reimbursement.

    Hogwash

    Get a clue.... and you already mentioned you work for Big Pharma, so... I'm not surprised.

    Where did queenliz99 say she worked for Big Pharma? <confused>
  • Crisseyda
    Crisseyda Posts: 532 Member
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    Hell big pharma is the reason why insulin shots exist.

    NOPE, the man who won the Nobel for isolating insulin, Dr. Banting, gave his patent away for free because he believed this life-saving drug should be available to everyone who needed it. Big Pharma is the reason new (but not necessarily more effective) versions of insulin are constantly created when patents run out so that they can keep the prices as high as possible.

    Insulin is an amazing drug for type 1 diabetics. It's the reason two of my immediate family members are still alive today. Insulin, however, is a horrible treatment for type 2 diabetics, and does nothing to cure the root cause of their disease, but instead exacerbates it.

    Lantus was #6 in the top 10 most profitable drugs in 2014, grossing 7.28 billion. http://qz.com/349929/best-selling-drugs-in-the-world/
    The diabetes epidemic is nothing but good news to the only 3 companies in the US that produce insulin: Eli Lilly, Sanofi and Novo Nordisk. With that kind of money on the line, do you think they would be careless enough to share nutrition advice that actually enabled people to prevent their potential or stop their current use of insulin?

    That nutrition advice is confusing garbage for good reason.

    @psulemon

    Searching through the web you can find so many examples of people who stopped T2 diabetes in its tracks by not listening to the stupid ADA, and not listening to their stupid doctor. They simply cut out refined sugar, fruit juice and grains from their diet, limited fruit consumption, and Voila! - no T2 diabetes.

    But without funding from Big Pharma, the ADA would be mostly out of business. So they recommend a too-high carb diet, which keeps people or makes people diabetic. It is criminal, and it is a disgrace.

    And if you watch cable news, you are inundated with the latest and greatest diabetes drug. And next year there will be another one that reduces blood sugars 1% more than the current one.

    Dr. Banting is rolling in his grave.

    Totally agree. It's an utter disgrace. The vast majority of people are totally clueless. Even diabetes educators at the hospital know that the ketogenic diet works so much better for T2DM, but their hands are tied and they aren't allowed to teach it. ADA guidelines are taught to protect medicare/medicaid reimbursement.

    Hogwash

    Get a clue.... and you already mentioned you work for Big Pharma, so... I'm not surprised.

    Where did queenliz99 say she worked for Big Pharma? <confused>

    Well, I believe she said Big Pharma is why she gets out of bed everyday... I assumed she meant for work, but maybe I misunderstood. Is there another explanation?
  • Crisseyda
    Crisseyda Posts: 532 Member
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    Hell big pharma is the reason why insulin shots exist.

    NOPE, the man who won the Nobel for isolating insulin, Dr. Banting, gave his patent away for free because he believed this life-saving drug should be available to everyone who needed it. Big Pharma is the reason new (but not necessarily more effective) versions of insulin are constantly created when patents run out so that they can keep the prices as high as possible.

    Insulin is an amazing drug for type 1 diabetics. It's the reason two of my immediate family members are still alive today. Insulin, however, is a horrible treatment for type 2 diabetics, and does nothing to cure the root cause of their disease, but instead exacerbates it.

    Lantus was #6 in the top 10 most profitable drugs in 2014, grossing 7.28 billion. http://qz.com/349929/best-selling-drugs-in-the-world/
    The diabetes epidemic is nothing but good news to the only 3 companies in the US that produce insulin: Eli Lilly, Sanofi and Novo Nordisk. With that kind of money on the line, do you think they would be careless enough to share nutrition advice that actually enabled people to prevent their potential or stop their current use of insulin?

    That nutrition advice is confusing garbage for good reason.

    @psulemon

    Searching through the web you can find so many examples of people who stopped T2 diabetes in its tracks by not listening to the stupid ADA, and not listening to their stupid doctor. They simply cut out refined sugar, fruit juice and grains from their diet, limited fruit consumption, and Voila! - no T2 diabetes.

    But without funding from Big Pharma, the ADA would be mostly out of business. So they recommend a too-high carb diet, which keeps people or makes people diabetic. It is criminal, and it is a disgrace.

    And if you watch cable news, you are inundated with the latest and greatest diabetes drug. And next year there will be another one that reduces blood sugars 1% more than the current one.

    Dr. Banting is rolling in his grave.

    Totally agree. It's an utter disgrace. The vast majority of people are totally clueless. Even diabetes educators at the hospital know that the ketogenic diet works so much better for T2DM, but their hands are tied and they aren't allowed to teach it. ADA guidelines are taught to protect medicare/medicaid reimbursement.

    Hogwash

    Get a clue.... and you already mentioned you work for Big Pharma, so... I'm not surprised.

    Absolute and utter hogwash.
    And what's worse, 100% falsifiable by 5 seconds of googling.

    http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/understanding-carbohydrates/

    Wow, look at them just telling you to eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication!

    That's the kind of BS claims that make me actually angry, because there's just no excuse.

    I'm confused, Steven. What exactly is this link suppose to confirm? You're building a strawman by saying "eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication." The point is: that 45-60 g of carbs per meal is arbitrary and unhelpful. T2DM is a dietary disease, and it needs a dietary cure. If these people want to heal their underlying disease and get off medication, they need intensive changes. Changes the ADA is not telling them about.

    There is no healing from diabetes.
    You sound like a walking popup advertisement "CLICK HERE TO SEE WHAT THE ADA IS NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT! YOU WON'T BELIEVE IT!"

    *shrug* Who cares what I sound like? Seriously, there is no healing from diabetes!? Then how do you explain people who've done it? When someone goes from using exogenous insulin everyday to control blood sugar to no need for the medication while still controlling blood sugar: I call that healing! Smh. I guess the only option is medication for the rest of their lives then.
  • KetoneKaren
    KetoneKaren Posts: 6,412 Member
    @stevencloser
    You aren't quoting me except the first line. That must be someone else's post.
  • Crisseyda
    Crisseyda Posts: 532 Member
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    Hell big pharma is the reason why insulin shots exist.

    NOPE, the man who won the Nobel for isolating insulin, Dr. Banting, gave his patent away for free because he believed this life-saving drug should be available to everyone who needed it. Big Pharma is the reason new (but not necessarily more effective) versions of insulin are constantly created when patents run out so that they can keep the prices as high as possible.

    Insulin is an amazing drug for type 1 diabetics. It's the reason two of my immediate family members are still alive today. Insulin, however, is a horrible treatment for type 2 diabetics, and does nothing to cure the root cause of their disease, but instead exacerbates it.

    Lantus was #6 in the top 10 most profitable drugs in 2014, grossing 7.28 billion. http://qz.com/349929/best-selling-drugs-in-the-world/
    The diabetes epidemic is nothing but good news to the only 3 companies in the US that produce insulin: Eli Lilly, Sanofi and Novo Nordisk. With that kind of money on the line, do you think they would be careless enough to share nutrition advice that actually enabled people to prevent their potential or stop their current use of insulin?

    That nutrition advice is confusing garbage for good reason.

    @psulemon

    Searching through the web you can find so many examples of people who stopped T2 diabetes in its tracks by not listening to the stupid ADA, and not listening to their stupid doctor. They simply cut out refined sugar, fruit juice and grains from their diet, limited fruit consumption, and Voila! - no T2 diabetes.

    But without funding from Big Pharma, the ADA would be mostly out of business. So they recommend a too-high carb diet, which keeps people or makes people diabetic. It is criminal, and it is a disgrace.

    And if you watch cable news, you are inundated with the latest and greatest diabetes drug. And next year there will be another one that reduces blood sugars 1% more than the current one.

    Dr. Banting is rolling in his grave.

    Totally agree. It's an utter disgrace. The vast majority of people are totally clueless. Even diabetes educators at the hospital know that the ketogenic diet works so much better for T2DM, but their hands are tied and they aren't allowed to teach it. ADA guidelines are taught to protect medicare/medicaid reimbursement.

    Hogwash

    Get a clue.... and you already mentioned you work for Big Pharma, so... I'm not surprised.

    Absolute and utter hogwash.
    And what's worse, 100% falsifiable by 5 seconds of googling.

    http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/understanding-carbohydrates/

    Wow, look at them just telling you to eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication!

    That's the kind of BS claims that make me actually angry, because there's just no excuse.

    I'm confused, Steven. What exactly is this link suppose to confirm? You're building a strawman by saying "eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication." The point is: that 45-60 g of carbs per meal is arbitrary and unhelpful. T2DM is a dietary disease, and it needs a dietary cure. If these people want to heal their underlying disease and get off medication, they need intensive changes. Changes the ADA is not telling them about.

    There is no healing from diabetes.
    You sound like a walking popup advertisement "CLICK HERE TO SEE WHAT THE ADA IS NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT! YOU WON'T BELIEVE IT!"

    *shrug* Who cares what I sound like? Seriously, there is no healing from diabetes!? Then how do you explain people who've done it? When someone goes from using exogenous insulin everyday to control blood sugar to no need for the medication while still controlling blood sugar: I call that healing! Smh. I guess the only option is medication for the rest of their lives then.

    If you still have it and it's just not acting up THAT'S NOT HEALING.

    Ok, whatever you want to call it or however you want to define it. It's possible, it happens, it's a real thing XD
  • Crisseyda
    Crisseyda Posts: 532 Member
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    Hell big pharma is the reason why insulin shots exist.

    NOPE, the man who won the Nobel for isolating insulin, Dr. Banting, gave his patent away for free because he believed this life-saving drug should be available to everyone who needed it. Big Pharma is the reason new (but not necessarily more effective) versions of insulin are constantly created when patents run out so that they can keep the prices as high as possible.

    Insulin is an amazing drug for type 1 diabetics. It's the reason two of my immediate family members are still alive today. Insulin, however, is a horrible treatment for type 2 diabetics, and does nothing to cure the root cause of their disease, but instead exacerbates it.

    Lantus was #6 in the top 10 most profitable drugs in 2014, grossing 7.28 billion. http://qz.com/349929/best-selling-drugs-in-the-world/
    The diabetes epidemic is nothing but good news to the only 3 companies in the US that produce insulin: Eli Lilly, Sanofi and Novo Nordisk. With that kind of money on the line, do you think they would be careless enough to share nutrition advice that actually enabled people to prevent their potential or stop their current use of insulin?

    That nutrition advice is confusing garbage for good reason.

    @psulemon

    Searching through the web you can find so many examples of people who stopped T2 diabetes in its tracks by not listening to the stupid ADA, and not listening to their stupid doctor. They simply cut out refined sugar, fruit juice and grains from their diet, limited fruit consumption, and Voila! - no T2 diabetes.

    But without funding from Big Pharma, the ADA would be mostly out of business. So they recommend a too-high carb diet, which keeps people or makes people diabetic. It is criminal, and it is a disgrace.

    And if you watch cable news, you are inundated with the latest and greatest diabetes drug. And next year there will be another one that reduces blood sugars 1% more than the current one.

    Dr. Banting is rolling in his grave.

    Totally agree. It's an utter disgrace. The vast majority of people are totally clueless. Even diabetes educators at the hospital know that the ketogenic diet works so much better for T2DM, but their hands are tied and they aren't allowed to teach it. ADA guidelines are taught to protect medicare/medicaid reimbursement.

    Hogwash

    Get a clue.... and you already mentioned you work for Big Pharma, so... I'm not surprised.

    Absolute and utter hogwash.
    And what's worse, 100% falsifiable by 5 seconds of googling.

    http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/understanding-carbohydrates/

    Wow, look at them just telling you to eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication!

    That's the kind of BS claims that make me actually angry, because there's just no excuse.

    I'm confused, Steven. What exactly is this link suppose to confirm? You're building a strawman by saying "eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication." The point is: that 45-60 g of carbs per meal is arbitrary and unhelpful. T2DM is a dietary disease, and it needs a dietary cure. If these people want to heal their underlying disease and get off medication, they need intensive changes. Changes the ADA is not telling them about.

    There is no healing from diabetes.
    You sound like a walking popup advertisement "CLICK HERE TO SEE WHAT THE ADA IS NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT! YOU WON'T BELIEVE IT!"

    *shrug* Who cares what I sound like? Seriously, there is no healing from diabetes!? Then how do you explain people who've done it? When someone goes from using exogenous insulin everyday to control blood sugar to no need for the medication while still controlling blood sugar: I call that healing! Smh. I guess the only option is medication for the rest of their lives then.

    If you still have it and it's just not acting up THAT'S NOT HEALING.

    Ok, whatever you want to call it or however you want to define it. It's possible, it happens, it's a real thing XD

    It's remission

    OK, then, remission is it. Why are we quibbling over terminology? The point is: if you want to cure your T2DM or put your T2DM "in remission," the ADA guidelines are not very helpful.
  • KetoneKaren
    KetoneKaren Posts: 6,412 Member
    No it isn't remission according, once again, to my endocrinologist. If you have a normal Hgb A1c and you aren't on any meds, you no longer have diabetes. If your BP normalizes because of lifestyle changes you make, and you are no longer on BP meds, you are no longer hypertensive. You are not in remission from high blood pressure.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    Hell big pharma is the reason why insulin shots exist.

    NOPE, the man who won the Nobel for isolating insulin, Dr. Banting, gave his patent away for free because he believed this life-saving drug should be available to everyone who needed it. Big Pharma is the reason new (but not necessarily more effective) versions of insulin are constantly created when patents run out so that they can keep the prices as high as possible.

    Insulin is an amazing drug for type 1 diabetics. It's the reason two of my immediate family members are still alive today. Insulin, however, is a horrible treatment for type 2 diabetics, and does nothing to cure the root cause of their disease, but instead exacerbates it.

    Lantus was #6 in the top 10 most profitable drugs in 2014, grossing 7.28 billion. http://qz.com/349929/best-selling-drugs-in-the-world/
    The diabetes epidemic is nothing but good news to the only 3 companies in the US that produce insulin: Eli Lilly, Sanofi and Novo Nordisk. With that kind of money on the line, do you think they would be careless enough to share nutrition advice that actually enabled people to prevent their potential or stop their current use of insulin?

    That nutrition advice is confusing garbage for good reason.

    @psulemon

    Searching through the web you can find so many examples of people who stopped T2 diabetes in its tracks by not listening to the stupid ADA, and not listening to their stupid doctor. They simply cut out refined sugar, fruit juice and grains from their diet, limited fruit consumption, and Voila! - no T2 diabetes.

    But without funding from Big Pharma, the ADA would be mostly out of business. So they recommend a too-high carb diet, which keeps people or makes people diabetic. It is criminal, and it is a disgrace.

    And if you watch cable news, you are inundated with the latest and greatest diabetes drug. And next year there will be another one that reduces blood sugars 1% more than the current one.

    Dr. Banting is rolling in his grave.

    Totally agree. It's an utter disgrace. The vast majority of people are totally clueless. Even diabetes educators at the hospital know that the ketogenic diet works so much better for T2DM, but their hands are tied and they aren't allowed to teach it. ADA guidelines are taught to protect medicare/medicaid reimbursement.

    Hogwash

    Get a clue.... and you already mentioned you work for Big Pharma, so... I'm not surprised.

    Absolute and utter hogwash.
    And what's worse, 100% falsifiable by 5 seconds of googling.

    http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/understanding-carbohydrates/

    Wow, look at them just telling you to eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication!

    That's the kind of BS claims that make me actually angry, because there's just no excuse.

    I'm confused, Steven. What exactly is this link suppose to confirm? You're building a strawman by saying "eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication." The point is: that 45-60 g of carbs per meal is arbitrary and unhelpful. T2DM is a dietary disease, and it needs a dietary cure. If these people want to heal their underlying disease and get off medication, they need intensive changes. Changes the ADA is not telling them about.

    There is no healing from diabetes.
    You sound like a walking popup advertisement "CLICK HERE TO SEE WHAT THE ADA IS NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT! YOU WON'T BELIEVE IT!"

    *shrug* Who cares what I sound like? Seriously, there is no healing from diabetes!? Then how do you explain people who've done it? When someone goes from using exogenous insulin everyday to control blood sugar to no need for the medication while still controlling blood sugar: I call that healing! Smh. I guess the only option is medication for the rest of their lives then.

    If you still have it and it's just not acting up THAT'S NOT HEALING.

    Ok, whatever you want to call it or however you want to define it. It's possible, it happens, it's a real thing XD

    It's remission

    OK, then, remission is it. Why are we quibbling over terminology? The point is: if you want to cure your T2DM or put your T2DM "in remission," the ADA guidelines are not very helpful.

    No quibbling here but do you know the difference between remission and healing? I think not.
  • Crisseyda
    Crisseyda Posts: 532 Member
    edited June 2016
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    Hell big pharma is the reason why insulin shots exist.

    NOPE, the man who won the Nobel for isolating insulin, Dr. Banting, gave his patent away for free because he believed this life-saving drug should be available to everyone who needed it. Big Pharma is the reason new (but not necessarily more effective) versions of insulin are constantly created when patents run out so that they can keep the prices as high as possible.

    Insulin is an amazing drug for type 1 diabetics. It's the reason two of my immediate family members are still alive today. Insulin, however, is a horrible treatment for type 2 diabetics, and does nothing to cure the root cause of their disease, but instead exacerbates it.

    Lantus was #6 in the top 10 most profitable drugs in 2014, grossing 7.28 billion. http://qz.com/349929/best-selling-drugs-in-the-world/
    The diabetes epidemic is nothing but good news to the only 3 companies in the US that produce insulin: Eli Lilly, Sanofi and Novo Nordisk. With that kind of money on the line, do you think they would be careless enough to share nutrition advice that actually enabled people to prevent their potential or stop their current use of insulin?

    That nutrition advice is confusing garbage for good reason.

    @psulemon

    Searching through the web you can find so many examples of people who stopped T2 diabetes in its tracks by not listening to the stupid ADA, and not listening to their stupid doctor. They simply cut out refined sugar, fruit juice and grains from their diet, limited fruit consumption, and Voila! - no T2 diabetes.

    But without funding from Big Pharma, the ADA would be mostly out of business. So they recommend a too-high carb diet, which keeps people or makes people diabetic. It is criminal, and it is a disgrace.

    And if you watch cable news, you are inundated with the latest and greatest diabetes drug. And next year there will be another one that reduces blood sugars 1% more than the current one.

    Dr. Banting is rolling in his grave.

    Totally agree. It's an utter disgrace. The vast majority of people are totally clueless. Even diabetes educators at the hospital know that the ketogenic diet works so much better for T2DM, but their hands are tied and they aren't allowed to teach it. ADA guidelines are taught to protect medicare/medicaid reimbursement.

    Hogwash

    Get a clue.... and you already mentioned you work for Big Pharma, so... I'm not surprised.

    Absolute and utter hogwash.
    And what's worse, 100% falsifiable by 5 seconds of googling.

    http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/understanding-carbohydrates/

    Wow, look at them just telling you to eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication!

    That's the kind of BS claims that make me actually angry, because there's just no excuse.

    I'm confused, Steven. What exactly is this link suppose to confirm? You're building a strawman by saying "eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication." The point is: that 45-60 g of carbs per meal is arbitrary and unhelpful. T2DM is a dietary disease, and it needs a dietary cure. If these people want to heal their underlying disease and get off medication, they need intensive changes. Changes the ADA is not telling them about.

    There is no healing from diabetes.
    You sound like a walking popup advertisement "CLICK HERE TO SEE WHAT THE ADA IS NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT! YOU WON'T BELIEVE IT!"

    *shrug* Who cares what I sound like? Seriously, there is no healing from diabetes!? Then how do you explain people who've done it? When someone goes from using exogenous insulin everyday to control blood sugar to no need for the medication while still controlling blood sugar: I call that healing! Smh. I guess the only option is medication for the rest of their lives then.

    If you still have it and it's just not acting up THAT'S NOT HEALING.

    Ok, whatever you want to call it or however you want to define it. It's possible, it happens, it's a real thing XD

    It's remission

    OK, then, remission is it. Why are we quibbling over terminology? The point is: if you want to cure your T2DM or put your T2DM "in remission," the ADA guidelines are not very helpful.

    No quibbling here but do you know the difference between remission and healing? I think not.

    Uh, since when does the difference even matter? It would be specific to the disease process and the individual. What practical difference does your terminology make?
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
    edited June 2016
    JaneSnowe wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    Crisseyda wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    Hell big pharma is the reason why insulin shots exist.

    NOPE, the man who won the Nobel for isolating insulin, Dr. Banting, gave his patent away for free because he believed this life-saving drug should be available to everyone who needed it. Big Pharma is the reason new (but not necessarily more effective) versions of insulin are constantly created when patents run out so that they can keep the prices as high as possible.

    Insulin is an amazing drug for type 1 diabetics. It's the reason two of my immediate family members are still alive today. Insulin, however, is a horrible treatment for type 2 diabetics, and does nothing to cure the root cause of their disease, but instead exacerbates it.

    Lantus was #6 in the top 10 most profitable drugs in 2014, grossing 7.28 billion. http://qz.com/349929/best-selling-drugs-in-the-world/
    The diabetes epidemic is nothing but good news to the only 3 companies in the US that produce insulin: Eli Lilly, Sanofi and Novo Nordisk. With that kind of money on the line, do you think they would be careless enough to share nutrition advice that actually enabled people to prevent their potential or stop their current use of insulin?

    That nutrition advice is confusing garbage for good reason.

    @psulemon

    Searching through the web you can find so many examples of people who stopped T2 diabetes in its tracks by not listening to the stupid ADA, and not listening to their stupid doctor. They simply cut out refined sugar, fruit juice and grains from their diet, limited fruit consumption, and Voila! - no T2 diabetes.

    But without funding from Big Pharma, the ADA would be mostly out of business. So they recommend a too-high carb diet, which keeps people or makes people diabetic. It is criminal, and it is a disgrace.

    And if you watch cable news, you are inundated with the latest and greatest diabetes drug. And next year there will be another one that reduces blood sugars 1% more than the current one.

    Dr. Banting is rolling in his grave.

    Totally agree. It's an utter disgrace. The vast majority of people are totally clueless. Even diabetes educators at the hospital know that the ketogenic diet works so much better for T2DM, but their hands are tied and they aren't allowed to teach it. ADA guidelines are taught to protect medicare/medicaid reimbursement.

    Hogwash

    Get a clue.... and you already mentioned you work for Big Pharma, so... I'm not surprised.

    Absolute and utter hogwash.
    And what's worse, 100% falsifiable by 5 seconds of googling.

    http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/understanding-carbohydrates/

    Wow, look at them just telling you to eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication!

    That's the kind of BS claims that make me actually angry, because there's just no excuse.

    I'm confused, Steven. What exactly is this link suppose to confirm? You're building a strawman by saying "eat all the sugar and carbs and just shoot up on more medication." The point is: that 45-60 g of carbs per meal is arbitrary and unhelpful. T2DM is a dietary disease, and it needs a dietary cure. If these people want to heal their underlying disease and get off medication, they need intensive changes. Changes the ADA is not telling them about.

    There is no healing from diabetes.
    You sound like a walking popup advertisement "CLICK HERE TO SEE WHAT THE ADA IS NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT! YOU WON'T BELIEVE IT!"

    *shrug* Who cares what I sound like? Seriously, there is no healing from diabetes!? Then how do you explain people who've done it? When someone goes from using exogenous insulin everyday to control blood sugar to no need for the medication while still controlling blood sugar: I call that healing! Smh. I guess the only option is medication for the rest of their lives then.

    If you still have it and it's just not acting up THAT'S NOT HEALING.

    Ok, whatever you want to call it or however you want to define it. It's possible, it happens, it's a real thing XD

    It's remission

    OK, then, remission is it. Why are we quibbling over terminology? The point is: if you want to cure your T2DM or put your T2DM "in remission," the ADA guidelines are not very helpful.

    No quibbling here but do you know the difference between remission and healing? I think not.

    Uh, since when does the difference even matter? It would be specific to the disease process and the individual. What practical difference does your terminology make?

    You are a nurse?

    ETA: I ask only because I would hope that any nurse treating a loved one of mine would know the difference between remission and "cured" and use the correct terminology, since there is a big difference.

    Good catch, I thought the word "healed" felt strange and not really used in the medical profession.

    ETA: except with broken bones
  • KetoneKaren
    KetoneKaren Posts: 6,412 Member
    edited June 2016
    BarbieAS wrote: »
    No it isn't remission according, once again, to my endocrinologist. If you have a normal Hgb A1c and you aren't on any meds, you no longer have diabetes. If your BP normalizes because of lifestyle changes you make, and you are no longer on BP meds, you are no longer hypertensive. You are not in remission from high blood pressure.

    I disagree.

    There are many, many people who engage in behaviors and make choices that would generally be considered risk factors for diabetes and hypertension (among other examples). Except, for whatever genetic or lifestyle or random reason, they never develop diabetes and hypertension. Those are the people who do not have diabetes or hypertension (yet, I'll grant you that, though a large percentage of people never develop conditions for which they'd be considered high risk due to such factors).

    People who were once Type 2 diabetic or who once had hypertension (meaning, that they had medically tested uncontrolled blood sugars or blood pressure and whatever other related symptoms) and may or may not have been on medications to control these diseases, but now are controlling the diseases through diet/exercise/other lifestyle changes, are still diabetic or hypertensive. They still have the disease, they're just controlling it through means other than medication. If these people were to slip back into behaviors that were not conducive to controlling their diseases, then the diseases would come back, the same way that they would if the person was controlling the disease through medication alone and stopped taking the medication.

    Just curious where the point of no return is. If a person's Hgb A1c is measured at 6.5 but he doesn't go on medicine and 3 months later his lifestyle changes result in a Hgb A1c of 5.8, does that person then carry a diagnosis of diabetes for the rest of his life and is forever in remission in your opinion? I would tend to refer to this person as a prediabetic now.
  • Timshel_
    Timshel_ Posts: 22,834 Member
    *giggle* I love when threads turn to first year philosophy logical fallacy calling.