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Do Vegan diets for children really need to be outlawed?
Replies
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lemurcat12 wrote: »chunky_pinup wrote: »I was saying my child's health, growth and thriving status had not been hindered by her vegan diet, which is what the article claimed vegan diets do to children.
No, it actually didn't. It talked about an Italian politician who seemed to think that a vegan diet was inherently problematic, but the article didn't say that to my reading. And the actual issue seemed to be a bad and inadequate vegan diet followed in a particular case and the law seemed possibly to be about denying a child essential nutrients like B12, not "animal products" or serving a vegan diet alone. That's why I asked if anyone had the text of the proposed law or could read the Italian sources discussing it.
Quoted from the article:
“Ms Savino writes that vegan diets leave children potentially lacking in iron, zinc and B12, which can lead to neurological problems and anaemia, reports Italian newspaper La Repubblica.”
“Any parent forcing a vegan diet on a child aged three or younger would face at least two years of prison.”
Yes, there were claims that a vegan diet *can* lead to children lacking in essential nutrients. However, you can lack in essential nutrients on ANY diet (vitamins would not be sold in every market if this weren’t the case). I completely agree that there are wackjobs out there who should be jailed for starving their kids into malnutrition, or denying them basic medical care in lieu of woo…but it is wrong to specifically target one dietary choice when, if done properly, can meet nutritional goals for anyone of any age – just like any other diet.
I suppose I should have previously said “the politician in the article claimed” and not “the article claimed”.
I just don't feel like my husband and I deserve jail time because my child eats a vegan diet. Plain and simple.2 -
Given the wording (the adequate nutrition part), I think we're far more likely to see parents in the slammer for feeding their kids something closer to SAD, than a Vegan diet. Though, as Lemur pointed out, one would need to see the wording in the actual legislation, and not a bunch of political posturing/bad reporting,1
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I had already edited and covered all of that above, and explained why I think it's poor reporting and we don't know the text of the law. More significantly, I also think there's a huge distinction between "the article said" and "a politician said." If the NY Times reports that "Mr. Trump suggested that Mexico should pay for a wall on the US border," it would not be accurate to claim that "the NY Times says that we need a wall on the US-Mexico border."
No one in this discussion is arguing that you should go to jail. I think you realize that, right?1 -
TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »Not unless you also outlaw the mountain dew and skittles diet, just hot dogs diet, and any other ridiculous thing you could feed your kids. would you even enforce that? At least you wouldn't be able to proactively. If the child is in danger, something should definitely be done, but that wouldn't come out until a doctor's visit where the child may show deficiencies.
The parents should be held accountable for what they subject the child to, but it shouldn't matter what you call the diet they feed the kid, if the screw the kid up and refuse doctors advice then take the kids away because obviously they don't know what they're doing.
I don't have kids so I don't know how the whole taking care of another human is supposed to go, but I'd like to think I'd be up the *kitten* of his/her doctor to make sure I'm not ruining the kid by doing anything wrong. Even though I myself eat a plant-based diet, I'd still consult a kids doctor as to what a mini human ought to be eating.
I'm not a vegan, but this statement is on point. You don't regulate things like this. Of course a doctor or someone should step in with any case that is a determent to a child. Undernourished children on a vegan diet, or undernourished because they are being fed mountain dew in a bottle.
The law should only step in when there is abuse and neglect and its a very fine line sometimes. It can be hard to judge.
Just because something is not how you would raise your child does not make it wrong.2 -
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Do Vegan diets for children really need to be outlawed?
That's not the governments mandate.
We don't outlaw religious beliefs.
I think the whole " harm no animal" belief, while not a church, qualifies as much as " thou shall not kill ".1 -
Do Vegan diets for children really need to be outlawed?
That's not the governments mandate.
We don't outlaw religious beliefs.
I think the whole " harm no animal" belief, while not a church, qualifies as much as " thou shall not kill ".
Keep in mind, we're also not talking about the US here. I am no expert on Italian politics, but claiming that any foreign nation's government mandate doesn't include something, might be reaching a bit, depending upon the nation. If you're Italian, consider my foot in my mouth though.0 -
I'm not convinced that a vegan diet is automatically going to result in malnutrition, but if a child is not adequately fed with appropriate nutrition, then caretakers should be held liable. This is true with a vegan or other diet.
Having said that, a clear law specifically addressing nutrition for children won't pass in the U.S. After all, we are willing to accept measles outbreaks in order to protect parents' religious beliefs.0 -
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What about obese kids, is this not a form of child abuse too? I would rather the government go after these parents, as well as the undernourished neglected kiddos.2
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Christine_72 wrote: »What about obese kids, is this not a form of child abuse too? I would rather the government go after these parents, as well as the undernourished neglected kiddos.
Apparently it has happened: http://www.inquisitr.com/2202621/childhood-obesity-is-child-abuse-court-says-could-be-used-to-take-your-kids-away-from-you/1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »What about obese kids, is this not a form of child abuse too? I would rather the government go after these parents, as well as the undernourished neglected kiddos.
Apparently it has happened: http://www.inquisitr.com/2202621/childhood-obesity-is-child-abuse-court-says-could-be-used-to-take-your-kids-away-from-you/
And in my own country too! I think this is a much bigger problem than parents feeding their kids vegan diets.2 -
Hows the meat and dairy industry going to make it's money if kids are vegan? And what about the poor sugar farmers... it's really hard hiding all that sugar in most dairy. It's very hard to add sugar to whole foods and vegetables.1
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It's not particularly difficult to add sugar to whole foods. I make a rhubarb sauce and add it by taking out a spoon, dipping it into a bag of sugar, and sprinkling it on the rhubarb in the pot. Easy-peasy. I get that some don't consider steel cut oats a whole food, and I personally don't like sugar on them, but my understanding is that it's super easy to add sugar to them too. Sugar is often used in smoking salmon -- that's also not complicated.
As for dairy, I eat lots of it, and none has sugar added (unless you count the berries I put in my greek yogurt), except, of course for ice cream (and the vegan variety made with coconut milk I had last night had just as much sugar added).
There's really nothing about a vegan diet that makes it harder to consume sugar unless one is also more health conscious (and one can be health conscious and limit sugar without being vegan). My guess is that the average HFLC person is likely to consume less added sugar than the average vegan.
Of course, I'm also not anti added sugar, just excessive added sugar.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »It's not particularly difficult to add sugar to whole foods. I make a rhubarb sauce and add it by taking out a spoon, dipping it into a bag of sugar, and sprinkling it on the rhubarb in the pot. Easy-peasy. I get that some don't consider steel cut oats a whole food, and I personally don't like sugar on them, but my understanding is that it's super easy to add sugar to them too. Sugar is often used in smoking salmon -- that's also not complicated.
As for dairy, I eat lots of it, and none has sugar added (unless you count the berries I put in my greek yogurt), except, of course for ice cream (and the vegan variety made with coconut milk I had last night had just as much sugar added).
There's really nothing about a vegan diet that makes it harder to consume sugar unless one is also more health conscious (and one can be health conscious and limit sugar without being vegan). My guess is that the average HFLC person is likely to consume less added sugar than the average vegan.
Of course, I'm also not anti added sugar, just excessive added sugar.
I ate 16g of sugar yesterday, and felt like my body was on fire. Curse you Halo Top.
For reference, that's more sugar than I usually eat in a week.1 -
Feed your kids foods that you can't even pronounce let alone begin to understand what it actually is and nobody bats an eye. Feed your kids veggies, fruits, plant based proteins, and whole grains and everybody's flying off the handle. I love how when you consume a SAD(standard American diet) nobody cares at all but they find out your vegan and suddenly everyone is a frickin nutritionist.6
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Feed your kids foods that you can't even pronounce let alone begin to understand what it actually is and nobody bats an eye. Feed your kids veggies, fruits, plant based proteins, and whole grains and everybody's flying off the handle. I love how when you consume a SAD(standard American diet) nobody cares at all but they find out your vegan and suddenly everyone is a frickin nutritionist.
Oh no, people do still *kitten* about SAD being fed to kids. It's just been going on for so long now, that said complaints barely register as background noise anymore.3 -
Feed your kids veggies, fruits, plant based proteins, and whole grains and everybody's flying off the handle.
No, why misrepresent what is being said?
I don't approve of the proposed law either (as reported, anyway -- I am skeptical as to whether it was reported correctly and would like to see the text of the proposed law). However, it is in Italy (so the SAD has nothing to do with anything), and is a reaction to a couple of situations where dumb and irresponsible parents fed their child a nutritionally inadequate diet, not to feeding veggies, etc. Similarly, the few examples of prosecution in NA that I linked (there are a few more) dealt with really inadequate diets also.3 -
I think it should be encouraged for kids to be vegan and eat healthy. I mean why is it not illegal to kids kids garbage microwaved food or fast food? But not feeding them animal products is so bad?2
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littlechiaseed wrote: »I think it should be encouraged for kids to be vegan and eat healthy. I mean why is it not illegal to kids kids garbage microwaved food or fast food? But not feeding them animal products is so bad?
"Garbage microwaved food or fast food" can be Vegan friendly as well, as I'm sure you well know.5 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »I think it should be encouraged for kids to be vegan and eat healthy. I mean why is it not illegal to kids kids garbage microwaved food or fast food? But not feeding them animal products is so bad?
I prefer to simplify...6 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »I think it should be encouraged for kids to be vegan and eat healthy. I mean why is it not illegal to kids kids garbage microwaved food or fast food? But not feeding them animal products is so bad?
"Garbage microwaved food or fast food" can be Vegan friendly as well, as I'm sure you well know.
Yup point?
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littlechiaseed wrote: »I think it should be encouraged for kids to be vegan and eat healthy. I mean why is it not illegal to kids kids garbage microwaved food or fast food? But not feeding them animal products is so bad?
I prefer to simplify...
Cool for you dude. I like to be more precise.
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littlechiaseed wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »I think it should be encouraged for kids to be vegan and eat healthy. I mean why is it not illegal to kids kids garbage microwaved food or fast food? But not feeding them animal products is so bad?
I prefer to simplify...
Cool for you dude. I like to be more precise.
Ok I'll bite. I meant to say more accurate, I was being nice. Why must one be vegan to be healthy?6 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »I think it should be encouraged for kids to be vegan and eat healthy. I mean why is it not illegal to kids kids garbage microwaved food or fast food? But not feeding them animal products is so bad?
"Garbage microwaved food or fast food" can be Vegan friendly as well, as I'm sure you well know.
Yup point?
I'll play. His point is you can be vegan and have a *kitten* diet. Vegan of course can be very healthy, just not any healthier then any number of balanced diets one could follow...2 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »I think it should be encouraged for kids to be vegan and eat healthy. I mean why is it not illegal to kids kids garbage microwaved food or fast food? But not feeding them animal products is so bad?
I prefer to simplify...
Cool for you dude. I like to be more precise.
Ok I'll bite. I meant to say more accurate, I was being nice. Why must one be vegan to be healthy?
P.sure no one said that. However lots of kids have food allergies and intolerances to eggs and dairy yet it's stuffed down their throats as "healthy" when it clearly isn't if you get sick from it and don't know why you have a tummy ach everyday. Speaking from personal experience.
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littlechiaseed wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »I think it should be encouraged for kids to be vegan and eat healthy. I mean why is it not illegal to kids kids garbage microwaved food or fast food? But not feeding them animal products is so bad?
"Garbage microwaved food or fast food" can be Vegan friendly as well, as I'm sure you well know.
Yup point?
I'll play. His point is you can be vegan and have a *kitten* diet. Vegan of course can be very healthy, just not any healthier then any number of balanced diets one could follow...
No kitten Sherlock.
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littlechiaseed wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »I think it should be encouraged for kids to be vegan and eat healthy. I mean why is it not illegal to kids kids garbage microwaved food or fast food? But not feeding them animal products is so bad?
I prefer to simplify...
Cool for you dude. I like to be more precise.
Ok I'll bite. I meant to say more accurate, I was being nice. Why must one be vegan to be healthy?
P.sure no one said that. However lots of kids have food allergies and intolerances to eggs and dairy yet it's stuffed down their throats as "healthy" when it clearly isn't if you get sick from it and don't know why you have a tummy ach everyday. Speaking from personal experience.
A lot of kids have soy and peanut allergies as well. They should all be diagnosed and handled accordingly.2 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »I think it should be encouraged for kids to be vegan and eat healthy. I mean why is it not illegal to kids kids garbage microwaved food or fast food? But not feeding them animal products is so bad?
I prefer to simplify...
Cool for you dude. I like to be more precise.
Ok I'll bite. I meant to say more accurate, I was being nice. Why must one be vegan to be healthy?
P.sure no one said that. However lots of kids have food allergies and intolerances to eggs and dairy yet it's stuffed down their throats as "healthy" when it clearly isn't if you get sick from it and don't know why you have a tummy ach everyday. Speaking from personal experience.
I would love to know WHY so many kids have food allergies and intolerance's these days! I didn't know one single kid in all of my childhood and teen years that could not eat this or that food, Everyone was "normal" back then.2
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