Obesity. Are you just lazy and dumb?
SideSteel
Posts: 11,068 Member
Meet Margaret.
Margaret is a single mother of three wonderful children. She is currently unemployed with a college degree in mathematics.
She has obesity and she was overweight as a child, and she wants nothing more than to lose weight and be healthy but the amount of life stress she faces makes seemingly simple tasks seem insurmountable. She has tried repeatedly in the past and while she has seen small amounts of success, she has never been able to lose weight and keep it off.
Margaret is on government assistance and she does not get child support. She struggles to find employment and she cannot afford childcare so she spends her days caring for her children. Margaret cannot afford a gym membership and she does not have convenient access to the internet. She is barely staying afloat, figuratively treading water to try and keep her children alive and healthy. Her youngest does not yet sleep through the night and so Margaret is chronically sleep deprived.
The only grocery store is 22 miles from her apartment and she cannot shop frequently so she relies on canned goods and some cheaper, heavily processed shelf stable foods to provide for her family.
Margaret was raised with poor dietary habits. Her family members have obesity and both of her parents are type 2 diabetics. Margaret’s brother is a construction worker and while he has good health markers, he too is 25lbs overweight.
When Margaret starts dieting, she feels very fatigued and tired. Her energy expenditure goes down and weight loss is very challenging for her to sustain. When she exercises, she’s regularly punished by the feeling of fatigue and physical pain, and every time she makes an effort to try to attenuate her condition she receives negative feedback both physically and emotionally.
Occasionally people ridicule her about her body and while she can't afford gym fees, the thought of exercising in front of people intimidates her.
Margaret cares about her body and she is an intelligent adult.
Meet Chad.
Chad is a 26-year-old competitive physique athlete and personal trainer.
Chad's father is a well-known professional athlete and his mother is a former IFBB competitor. They are quite financially secure, with Chad's family owning a chain of commercial Gyms.
Chad has a history of very healthy eating habits and he has been lifting weights with both parents since he was a young boy.
There's a farmers market and two grocery stores within walking distance to His home, and every three days Chad sprints to the store for fun and then he walks home with some fresh produce.
When Chad overeats, his non-exercise activity naturally increases which causes him to have to eat a very high number of calories to gain body weight. His friends joke about it but it's difficult for him to have to eat so much to gain weight. When he exercises, Chad is rewarded by how it feels, by the peer support he gets, and by the thousands of Instagram followers who comment on his body and on his lifting videos.
Chad is currently cutting for an upcoming bodybuilding competition. Dieting down to extreme levels of leanness is quite challenging for anyone, including Chad -- but he embraces the challenge as a recreational activity that he enjoys along with his training.
Margaret and Chad both care a lot about their bodies. They are both intelligent adults too!
Whether or not Margaret can succeed at her weight loss journey will come down to a series of personal choices.
Whether or not Chad can succeed with maintaining a reasonable bodyweight will also come down to a series of personal choices.
But it’s much easier for Chad to make health promoting decisions. He has a lower amount of life stress, he has financial stability, and he also has favorable genetics for both athleticism and resisting fat gain and so when he does make those decisions the results come faster.
Chad has a well established support network and a thriving career that keeps him physically active, and when Chad makes decisions that are already part of his daily life, he’s rewarded by doing so.
It’s the complete opposite for Margaret in almost all respects.
Now obviously I’ve presented two rather extreme cases but it’s to illustrate some points.
We know that fat loss IS about calorie balance over the long term. And presumably at least, we can say that we all have some amount of willpower to make choices.
But as you can see in this example, the playing field is NOT, AT ALL level. It is MUCH easier for some people (like Chad) to make health promoting choices and there are factors that DO NOT involve personal choice that may have a substantial impact on overall success at fat loss.
If you reduce obesity to the notion that people with obesity are just lazy, or dumb, or “just don’t care enough” you are willfully ignoring an overwhelming amount of influencing factors including but not limited to socioeconomic influences, genetic influences, environmental influences, individual psychological factors, and a laundry list of other things that make the playing field remarkably skewed, so to speak.
So why do I care?
Because as a fitness professional it frustrates me to no end when people (most often lean people) make the assumption that someone’s failure to maintain a healthy bodyweight is a direct statement about either their intelligence or their level of desire. (I’ll note that it CAN be due to these things, definitely. But don’t assume that it IS due to these things).
Obesity is the result of fat accumulation caused by chronic overconsumption of calories.
It is not however, exclusively a function of how bad you want it, or how intelligent you are.
Finally, repeated a bit more bluntly: if you think that obese people are just lazy and/or dumb, not only are you most often entirely wrong, but you’re also not helping anyone, you’re potentially harming, and I sincerely hope you don’t have a career in fitness.
Some leisure reading:
Obesity System Influences Diagram
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
On variable responses to NEAT which supports the idea that some people are resistant to fat gain while others aren’t.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9880251
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1514610
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11360139
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/role-of-nonexercise-activity-thermogenesis-in-resistance-to-fat-gain-in-humans-research-review.html/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11310775
Association between poverty and obesity rates in the US:
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/60/11/2667
On attitudes towards obesity on social media:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4167901/
Fat shaming sucks and if you do it, so do you:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866597/
Margaret is a single mother of three wonderful children. She is currently unemployed with a college degree in mathematics.
She has obesity and she was overweight as a child, and she wants nothing more than to lose weight and be healthy but the amount of life stress she faces makes seemingly simple tasks seem insurmountable. She has tried repeatedly in the past and while she has seen small amounts of success, she has never been able to lose weight and keep it off.
Margaret is on government assistance and she does not get child support. She struggles to find employment and she cannot afford childcare so she spends her days caring for her children. Margaret cannot afford a gym membership and she does not have convenient access to the internet. She is barely staying afloat, figuratively treading water to try and keep her children alive and healthy. Her youngest does not yet sleep through the night and so Margaret is chronically sleep deprived.
The only grocery store is 22 miles from her apartment and she cannot shop frequently so she relies on canned goods and some cheaper, heavily processed shelf stable foods to provide for her family.
Margaret was raised with poor dietary habits. Her family members have obesity and both of her parents are type 2 diabetics. Margaret’s brother is a construction worker and while he has good health markers, he too is 25lbs overweight.
When Margaret starts dieting, she feels very fatigued and tired. Her energy expenditure goes down and weight loss is very challenging for her to sustain. When she exercises, she’s regularly punished by the feeling of fatigue and physical pain, and every time she makes an effort to try to attenuate her condition she receives negative feedback both physically and emotionally.
Occasionally people ridicule her about her body and while she can't afford gym fees, the thought of exercising in front of people intimidates her.
Margaret cares about her body and she is an intelligent adult.
Meet Chad.
Chad is a 26-year-old competitive physique athlete and personal trainer.
Chad's father is a well-known professional athlete and his mother is a former IFBB competitor. They are quite financially secure, with Chad's family owning a chain of commercial Gyms.
Chad has a history of very healthy eating habits and he has been lifting weights with both parents since he was a young boy.
There's a farmers market and two grocery stores within walking distance to His home, and every three days Chad sprints to the store for fun and then he walks home with some fresh produce.
When Chad overeats, his non-exercise activity naturally increases which causes him to have to eat a very high number of calories to gain body weight. His friends joke about it but it's difficult for him to have to eat so much to gain weight. When he exercises, Chad is rewarded by how it feels, by the peer support he gets, and by the thousands of Instagram followers who comment on his body and on his lifting videos.
Chad is currently cutting for an upcoming bodybuilding competition. Dieting down to extreme levels of leanness is quite challenging for anyone, including Chad -- but he embraces the challenge as a recreational activity that he enjoys along with his training.
Margaret and Chad both care a lot about their bodies. They are both intelligent adults too!
Whether or not Margaret can succeed at her weight loss journey will come down to a series of personal choices.
Whether or not Chad can succeed with maintaining a reasonable bodyweight will also come down to a series of personal choices.
But it’s much easier for Chad to make health promoting decisions. He has a lower amount of life stress, he has financial stability, and he also has favorable genetics for both athleticism and resisting fat gain and so when he does make those decisions the results come faster.
Chad has a well established support network and a thriving career that keeps him physically active, and when Chad makes decisions that are already part of his daily life, he’s rewarded by doing so.
It’s the complete opposite for Margaret in almost all respects.
Now obviously I’ve presented two rather extreme cases but it’s to illustrate some points.
We know that fat loss IS about calorie balance over the long term. And presumably at least, we can say that we all have some amount of willpower to make choices.
But as you can see in this example, the playing field is NOT, AT ALL level. It is MUCH easier for some people (like Chad) to make health promoting choices and there are factors that DO NOT involve personal choice that may have a substantial impact on overall success at fat loss.
If you reduce obesity to the notion that people with obesity are just lazy, or dumb, or “just don’t care enough” you are willfully ignoring an overwhelming amount of influencing factors including but not limited to socioeconomic influences, genetic influences, environmental influences, individual psychological factors, and a laundry list of other things that make the playing field remarkably skewed, so to speak.
So why do I care?
Because as a fitness professional it frustrates me to no end when people (most often lean people) make the assumption that someone’s failure to maintain a healthy bodyweight is a direct statement about either their intelligence or their level of desire. (I’ll note that it CAN be due to these things, definitely. But don’t assume that it IS due to these things).
Obesity is the result of fat accumulation caused by chronic overconsumption of calories.
It is not however, exclusively a function of how bad you want it, or how intelligent you are.
Finally, repeated a bit more bluntly: if you think that obese people are just lazy and/or dumb, not only are you most often entirely wrong, but you’re also not helping anyone, you’re potentially harming, and I sincerely hope you don’t have a career in fitness.
Some leisure reading:
Obesity System Influences Diagram
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
On variable responses to NEAT which supports the idea that some people are resistant to fat gain while others aren’t.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9880251
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1514610
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11360139
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/role-of-nonexercise-activity-thermogenesis-in-resistance-to-fat-gain-in-humans-research-review.html/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11310775
Association between poverty and obesity rates in the US:
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/60/11/2667
On attitudes towards obesity on social media:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4167901/
Fat shaming sucks and if you do it, so do you:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866597/
214
Replies
-
High five. Or fistbump. Or whatever the cool kids are doing these days.26
-
Good read. This really hits home.11
-
Standing ovation from me.6
-
I came into this thread ready to fight you because of the title.
It was actually a really good read, thanks for that. Some of your points really hit home.16 -
Speaking as someone who was once A Margaret (minus the children) and who has slowly been trying to turn into something more resembling a Chad.....
Very very good post!!
Thank you. Not enough people understand this point.
13 -
Yes I wondered about this, I just recommended a post that says the person was able to "shift from doing things fat lazy people to to doing things lean healthy people do". I definitely need to be better informed next time. Thanks for starting this thread, will be interesting to see the discussion.1
-
Switch "obesity" with "poverty" and the argument is still the same, but as you can see there's still a large group that blames poverty on lazy and dumb.29
-
I have never been dumb. I think few of us live as polarised lives as your clearly extreme examples
I was obese because I ate too much, didn't move enough and didn't commit enough to changing because I was convinced I was fine and because I was too lazy to find a way too change, it wasn't a priority to me
I'm not sure what I think about your post. I'm not one to fat shame but I also can't abide excuses.
I appreciate it is harder for some than others. I get that society stacks the decks. But there's also a line of personal responsibility.
I work with people who have the cards stacked against them in many ways (not in fitness) excuses don't cut it, failing to try is trying to fail.
I really don't know what to think of your post29 -
1 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »Switch "obesity" with "poverty" and the argument is still the same, but as you can see there's still a large group that blames poverty on lazy and dumb.
Ain't that the truth. You're quite right.1 -
I have never been dumb. I think few of us live as polarised lives as your clearly extreme examples
I was obese because I ate too much, didn't move enough and didn't commit enough to changing because I was convinced I was fine and because I was too lazy to find a way too change, it wasn't a priority to me
I'm not sure what I think about your post. I'm not one to fat shame but I also can't abide excuses.
I appreciate it is harder for some than others. I get that society stacks the decks. But there's also a line of personal responsibility.
I work with people who have the cards stacked against them in many ways (not in fitness) excuses don't cut it, failing to try is trying to fail.
I really don't know what to think of your post
Two extremes leaves a lot of room between the poles, where your story very comfortably, and reasonably, fits in. Amiright?17 -
I have never been dumb. I think few of us live as polarised lives as your clearly extreme examples
I was obese because I ate too much, didn't move enough and didn't commit enough to changing because I was convinced I was fine and because I was too lazy to find a way too change, it wasn't a priority to me
I'm not sure what I think about your post. I'm not one to fat shame but I also can't abide excuses.
I appreciate it is harder for some than others. I get that society stacks the decks. But there's also a line of personal responsibility.
I work with people who have the cards stacked against them in many ways (not in fitness) excuses don't cut it, failing to try is trying to fail.
I really don't know what to think of your post
I don't think it was meant to excuse or justify anything. I think it was meant as an example that the difficultly level for weight loss and a healthy lifestyle is dependent on so many different things and the majority of people don't understand that sometimes there are so many more factors than just wanting to make a change.17 -
Not really what I'm saying
I'm going to think about it
Because this post sits very close in my mind to the "aww it's not their fault poor buggers" concept that makes people impotent and I'm sure that wasn't the intent6 -
I don't think it was meant to excuse or justify anything. I think it was meant as an example that the difficultly level for weight loss and a healthy lifestyle is dependent on so many different things and the majority of people don't understand that sometimes there are so many more factors than just wanting to make a change.
love this, it's really eye opening0 -
Margaret and I could be siblings.
I couldn't lose weight when I was working 70 hours per week.
I couldn't lose weight when my pantry was full of cheap processed foods.
I couldn't lose weight when I had no support from family and friends who also ate cheap processed foods.
I couldn't lose weight when all of my knowledge about health and fitness could be summarized as "follow this fad" and "Dude, just stop being fat".
What changed?
Skills training to get a better job
Access to healthier food and an affordable gym
A supportive fitness-focused friend group
A trainer who provided empathy and education
It took years of effort to clear the roadblocks between myself and a healthy lifestyle. The comments, the stares, the unsolicited advice, the "tough love" did nothing but make me withdraw more, eat more, and hate myself more.
Offer your hand to others, not your judgement.47 -
Because this post sits very close in my mind to the "aww it's not their fault poor buggers" concept that makes people impotent and I'm sure that wasn't the intent
Really? Because I always think that the point of acknowledging barriers is that acknowledging them is the first step in trying to break through them.
18 -
It always annoys me when people connect this sanctimonious moral imperative to weight loss. If you want to lose weight, lose weight. And if you want to be a better person, donate to charity or adopt a rescue dog or foster a child.
Because losing weight, by itself, doesn't make you a better person; you will be the same person as before, except skinnier.11 -
I have never been dumb. I think few of us live as polarised lives as your clearly extreme examples
I was obese because I ate too much, didn't move enough and didn't commit enough to changing because I was convinced I was fine and because I was too lazy to find a way too change, it wasn't a priority to me
I'm not sure what I think about your post. I'm not one to fat shame but I also can't abide excuses.
I appreciate it is harder for some than others. I get that society stacks the decks. But there's also a line of personal responsibility.
I work with people who have the cards stacked against them in many ways (not in fitness) excuses don't cut it, failing to try is trying to fail.
I really don't know what to think of your post
I don't think it was meant to excuse or justify anything. I think it was meant as an example that the difficultly level for weight loss and a healthy lifestyle is dependent on so many different things and the majority of people don't understand that sometimes there are so many more factors than just wanting to make a change.
No I get that, it's related to my professional field and I've been dealing with inequalities and societal issues for the last decade.
Life isn't a level playing field. So what? My success stories got that. My failures didn't generally.
It's fair enough to want to change external attitudes from those outside judging but I don't believe it will happen, its endemic in politics, economics, media. Believe me I'd love to see a total shift in the perceptions towards, and of, the poor and dispossessed6 -
I'm not sure what I think about your post. I'm not one to fat shame but I also can't abide excuses.
There is a difference between causes/reasons and excuses. Even if "Margaret" tries, these issues in her life are still causes of her obesity and reasons why it is harder for her to successfully lose weight and maintain weight loss.13 -
Hmmm ... I do like the post a lot. I get what is trying to be conveyed. I think. But I also am having a few struggles with some of it. I just don't want to see "I can't because ... Margaret". I want to say Margaret's road is definitely the more difficult of the two. But if one wants something enough we make it happen. That might mean no gym. But it might mean lifting gallon jugs filled with water. Or walking in place or ... something.
This probably makes me look like I am completely lacking empathy and I am not. I just am not finding the right words I guess.
Ok I came back and read again. I get it and yes, I would agree that things are stacked against one over the other. Margaret's (and people facing similar challenges) choices are and will continue to be, much harder. At least in the short term.
As to considering anyone dumb and lazy? I'd never make that assumption unless I walked a mile in their shoes once.1 -
I have never been dumb. I think few of us live as polarised lives as your clearly extreme examples
I was obese because I ate too much, didn't move enough and didn't commit enough to changing because I was convinced I was fine and because I was too lazy to find a way too change, it wasn't a priority to me
I'm not sure what I think about your post. I'm not one to fat shame but I also can't abide excuses.
I appreciate it is harder for some than others. I get that society stacks the decks. But there's also a line of personal responsibility.
I work with people who have the cards stacked against them in many ways (not in fitness) excuses don't cut it, failing to try is trying to fail.
I really don't know what to think of your post
I don't think it was meant to excuse or justify anything. I think it was meant as an example that the difficultly level for weight loss and a healthy lifestyle is dependent on so many different things and the majority of people don't understand that sometimes there are so many more factors than just wanting to make a change.
No I get that, it's related to my professional field and I've been dealing with inequalities and societal issues for the last decade.
Life isn't a level playing field. So what? My success stories got that. My failures didn't generally.
It's fair enough to want to change external attitudes from those outside judging but I don't believe it will happen, its endemic in politics, economics, media. Believe me I'd love to see a total shift in the perceptions towards, and of, the poor and dispossessed
I think that addressing the outside attitude is where SideSteel was going with this. I don't see any sort of excuse-making here.
I know you get the idea that obesity is often very complex, and some people have a great many issues to address before they ever get to the point where it really is as simple as eating less and moving more.
I think there was a post today on another thread that sort of instigated this, and if I'm speaking out of turn, forgive me. But it spoke to the idea of not grasping that it's not always easy for some people. Saying that isn't making excuses for them and saying it's not their fault, it's just explaining their reality, much in the same way you can explain the reality the people you deal with face.
You likely know yourself that there are probably extra steps the people you deal with need to take to get what they need to do done than those having more privilege (whatever sort of privilege that might entail) might.
Hell, I'm not without intelligence, but it took me 40 years to slay all my dragons before I could get this right, and I wasn't even a Margaret.11 -
WOW! After reading this, I immediately went to that Nicole whats-her-face and that British Katie-something-or-other fat shamers. I absolutely love the fact that you put it into such a perspective that would shut either one of them down.
The Margaret scenario is not an excuse. That is reality. That is pushing a boulder uphill. The point being made is that, yes, anyone can lose weight, and Margaret is genuinely trying, but the fact of the matter is it's much harder for some than for others. Not all of us come from good genes or financially secure incomes. As we all know, eating healthy is not cheap. And we further know that if you don't have a good night's sleep, it will damper your sense of well being, metabolism, your thought process, etc.
I think this is brilliant.15 -
I think it's important to acknowledge that he's not saying it's impossible for Margaret to lose weight. He's saying it's wrong and crappy to project a bunch of negative traits onto her for having obesity because obesity isn't caused by being a lazy, stupid person.25
-
Doesn't everyone on the planet know that to lose weight they need to eat less?? For some people it's just not worth the effort...
As for poverty, there was a couple of years there where i was so poor i was nearly homeless, this was the time i was at my skinniest, too skinny.. Why? Because i couldn't afford to buy much food.
I then gained weight because i ate way too much, i was mentally and physically lazy The thought of going without my beloved treats and eating what i wanted when i wanted was just too hard. I have zero excuses, other than my willpower sucked. I knew full well what i needed to do to lose the weight, it just wasn't important enough to me at the time, until one day, it was.10 -
Not really what I'm saying
I'm going to think about it
Because this post sits very close in my mind to the "aww it's not their fault poor buggers" concept that makes people impotent and I'm sure that wasn't the intent
That is not what I got. I got out of it that people that are obese do try, it's just that some have a lot more obstacles stacked against them rather than not trying to lose the weight at all. I've been losing weight and gaining wieght my whole life. There was a time I was truly successful, and then it came back. and then it went away, and then it came back again. ....but because of how some people see me now, currently. some people would call me lazy, or "doesnt even try", when all of my life I have been struggling with it, when all of my life, since childhood, I have been thinking, trying, dieting, obsessing, about my weight. constantly.6 -
I have never been dumb. I think few of us live as polarised lives as your clearly extreme examples
I was obese because I ate too much, didn't move enough and didn't commit enough to changing because I was convinced I was fine and because I was too lazy to find a way too change, it wasn't a priority to me
I'm not sure what I think about your post. I'm not one to fat shame but I also can't abide excuses.
I appreciate it is harder for some than others. I get that society stacks the decks. But there's also a line of personal responsibility.
I work with people who have the cards stacked against them in many ways (not in fitness) excuses don't cut it, failing to try is trying to fail.
I really don't know what to think of your post
I don't think it was meant to excuse or justify anything. I think it was meant as an example that the difficultly level for weight loss and a healthy lifestyle is dependent on so many different things and the majority of people don't understand that sometimes there are so many more factors than just wanting to make a change.
No I get that, it's related to my professional field and I've been dealing with inequalities and societal issues for the last decade.
Life isn't a level playing field. So what?
So let's stop painting the picture of laziness, stupidity, or not caring as being the sole contributors to obesity especially when evidence suggests otherwise.It's fair enough to want to change external attitudes from those outside judging but I don't believe it will happen
It won't stop me from trying.
18 -
6
-
food banks and food desert areas are huge contributors to the disparity gap in regards to obesity and health. This is way beyond lazy and dumb, and it makes me so angry that people get stigmatized because of their backgrounds. I actually want to integrate health into social work to help families break through the barriers.14
-
food banks and food desert areas are huge contributors to the disparity gap in regards to obesity and health. This is way beyond lazy and dumb, and it makes me so angry that people get stigmatized because of their backgrounds. I actually want to integrate health into social work to help families break through the barriers.
Yup, one of the posted studies references food deserts as a contributing factor.2 -
food banks and food desert areas are huge contributors to the disparity gap in regards to obesity and health. This is way beyond lazy and dumb, and it makes me so angry that people get stigmatized because of their backgrounds. I actually want to integrate health into social work to help families break through the barriers.
Yup, one of the posted studies references food deserts as a contributing factor.
Thanks! It's hard to read this stuff on my phone, so I'll get to them once I have access to a computer. I find this information interesting yet unfortunate.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions