Obesity. Are you just lazy and dumb?
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cross2bear wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »cross2bear wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »My take....don't have kids unless you absolutely can care for them by yourself, and have great life insurance in case.
#1 reason why women are poor, usually overweight with no time for themselves is because they have a kid or two, or three. If I could get into the face of as many high school females as I could this is what I would share. Margaret has a degree in Mathematics, but since the degree wasn't a doctorate, and had no clue the sperm donor would vacate and leave her nothing, she couldn't save her from her situation because she had kids to care for by herself.
And look at Chad....if he had kids, he's not getting fat cause he didn't physically have them, nor is at home with the kids. He is out building a business, networking, socializing, probably without the ball and chain and the rug rats.
I love kids, I have one, and I love her and sacrificed so much for her. But I knew if I did not make a great income beforehand, our lives could have been much like Margaret. I still put on weight cause after work and homework and dinner, there's an exhausted Mom who has to start over again the next day, get kid ready, drop kid off at childcare/school, then get to work by 9:00 so that you can leave by 5:00 to get the kid before the 6:00p deadline (or you're paying $5 each minute you're late.
Unless you're a single dad, most men have not a clue. They are being Chad.
I find this post really offensive - maybe Margaret did have a partner at one time, but he's dead. And didnt have insurance. Now she is an economically disadvantaged single mother. She stayed home to look after the kids while her husband was alive, and now her skills are stale.
It could also have been a single father in the same situation, staying home because his wife had a better paying job.
It is so smug to think that single mothers are simply breeders. You cannot know the many circumstances that leave women particularly in these situations. Have a little compassion.
Yes, it is possible she didn't plan ahead. The point is she should have planned ahead. However, it is too late now and she has an enormous hole to dig out of.It is so smug to think that single mothers are simply breeders.
They are breeders. So are married mothers. Anyone who has kids is a breeder, by definition. It isn't some "smug" viewpoint, it is a fact.
The greater point is that Margaret failed to think about what it would take to have kids and plan ahead. I see this quite often myself - neighbors and even relatives. Usually, they are all excited to have a kid and think life will be great, but don't think about the details of what it will take to properly care for the kid and themselves as well. That part totally slips their mind. Societal pressure to breed doesn't help. If there was more talk about the challenges of kids rather than primarily the discussion of the joy of children, then Margaret might have considered this and planned better. So yes, Margaret really screwed up and the situation she is in is her own fault, though there were external contributions.
Having said that, it still does no good to bring up to Margaret about how she contributed to her own challenges over-coming obesity. She can't go back in time and have a re-do. Empathizing with the challenges she is now facing is still important. She still faces significantly more challenges than Chad and her solution is not as clear.
You must be a man. You can pronounce on things about which you will never experience. You will mansplain till you are blue in the face but you just dont get it. How is it HER problem to plan? How do you plan for every disaster that can possibly happen, that would affect your decision to have children? The human race would be long gone if we all did that.
And no, all women are NOT breeders, because you are using the term pejoritively - dont even try to be disingenuous and say thats not what you meant.
Your attitudes do nothing to build bridges between people - You appear to lack empathy and understanding of broader social issues.
Yes...how dare you judge people on their appearance or the way in which they were born...you must be a man.
And the award for unintentional irony goes to...8 -
You know what a lot of people are missing? The original post was a critique of moral condemnation levied upon overweight individuals.
I did miss this, even though I was in the thread it kind of came out of (and missed that somehow), because I don't think that people here in general are going to be levying moral condemnation on overweight individuals. So that was not my first thought as to what the thread was about. I agree that it's a bad thing to do, obviously, but it seems almost too obvious a point? I dunno, maybe I'm wrong, probably am.
I will say that I think moral condemnation is wrong even if one does not stack the deck (this is not a criticism of SideSteel) and create a character like Margaret. I was fat without many of the hurdles that Margaret faced (as are a huge number of people in the US), and yet I don't think moral condemnation was the right response (even if I tend to fall into it with myself sometimes).By getting sidetracked into a discussion of the logistics of weight loss and maintenance, people are accepting assigning negative character and value traits to overweight people based solely on their weight.
I find that pretty appalling, personally.
I disagree -- I think it's all part of the topic given where it is and how it was raised. I mean yes, absolutely, it's wrong to levy moral condemnation on someone for being fat. But IMO there are connections being made here by some posters to efforts to respond to questions raised by people on the forum who are struggling--we aren't really talking about whether someone who is fat must not know what she is talking about--and if those connections are going to be made and people's efforts to help brushed off with "it was easy for you, you don't understand then," I think that's problematic.
Again, I don't think that was SideSteel's point, but I think it's an important background to the discussion that explains in part the reactions.
I guess I have a question. We don't know in any case, but let's say that a poster who says "how do I manage to eat less, I keep meaning to but I cannot" is a Margaret? What's the right response? I'd say ask specific questions about what she is struggling with -- IMO, too often people jump in and say "this is what I did, you should do this" and so often that's something like "go low carb" which might be a good answer, but we lack information to say it is -- and then try to give suggestions. She may say "no, I can't, no, I can't" in which case I personally will assume she's not ready yet but that maybe she has some things to think about and will wish her well and also say if she's not ready to make certain changes, that's okay. I don't see what else we could do or why that would be cruel or non-empathetic.0 -
i really still think some of these posts are missing the point. and please, correct me if i'm wrong OP (or others, i'm open to it)
the point is not that Margaret can't lose weight. or that Margaret makes excuses. It's not that Margaret is a special snowflake nor is it that she is just terrible at CICO.
the point is not that some people come from similar or worse starting points and make better health choices than margaret with better outcomes. all types of people fit into some version of the elusive american dream of pulling yourself up from your bootstraps: fiscally, health-wise, academically.
the point is simply to remind us not to look at Margaret and impose a set of negative characteristics on her based on her visible health markers. which is exactly the opposite of looking at the facts presented in the hypothetical and assuming that margaret makes excuses (never stated), assuming that she tells people she is trying to lose weight but can't (never stated), or assuming that because her situation is currently determining her weight that it will be the same for everyone similarly situated, or even that it will be static for her.
hypothetical margaret isn't dumb or lazy. hypothetical margaret is fat. those things are not necessarily related.
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except someone in here called their family land whales.
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jessiferrrb wrote: »
Inertia-gifted individuals?3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
I believe if anyone prioritizes their health, puts in the time to calorically restrict and exercise then they can lose weight, gain strength and become a healthier version of themselves yes. I don't believe in the special snowflake who can accurately calorie restrict and exercise hard and still not gain strength or lose weight. This isn't a negative viewpoint, its an optimistic one.
What I DON'T do is think that someone who has prioritized something other than their health is automatically wrong. Some people have other things in their life they may deem more important and that is their call.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you are ALSO inherently assuming the ability to adhere to the caloric restriction?
If the person isn't flawed then yes, if they are flawed then they need to address that. Like I said once you say someone IS prioritizing their health and isn't being successful then they are innefectual for some reason and at that point one kind of does have to be critical of them. Being critical isn't the same thing as being mean. At somepoint you need to say to them, hey...you are *kitten* something up...lets look into it and try to figure out what it is.
I see it quite a bit differently.
If someone is struggling with diet adherence, you need to address a variety of factors many of which have nothing to do with character flaws.
It has to do with dietary methodology, food environment, stress management, and of course obvious things like food selection habits and making adjustments or manipulations to calorie and macronutrient intake.
Now I will say that there probably are many cases where it's some sort of emotional issue or character defect but I tend to think that it's about matching a sustainable methodology to the individual.
In my own life, I'm not sure that's so.
There was a period of time when I was reluctantly going to my trainer, not otherwise exercising, and eating badly and gaining weight (this was when I first started regaining). She knew what was up, but didn't know what to do, so just kept encouraging me and added in more cardio to our sessions (I'd been doing cardio on my own up to that point). She probably asked some questions, which I brushed off. I eventually quit (made easier by her moving away). I don't think my issue was character flaw, but I also don't think it was diet methodology, etc. I think I was not motivated/willing to make fitness a priority due to other things in my life. I don't think changing what I was eating (as some in the other thread seemed to think was the answer) would have mattered, in terms of if I just ate fewer carbs I wouldn't overeat, if I cut out sweets I wouldn't overeat (which presumes the motivation/determination to follow through on that anyway). I think it was -- and usually is -- an absence of caring. In saying this, I am NOT saying that the person who doesn't care is a bad person, and I am also more trying to think this through than making an argument. When I care, really care, I will make any approach work, although some will obviously be more feasible or pleasant to me than others and some are more likely to be a long-term, easy habit eventually.
Yeah, maybe it was an emotional issue (in part, probably), but I think it's really easy for people to just feel like they don't want to even without that, that it's too much. This is actually something I worry about, since how do I know it won't happen again. So many people seem certain that they found the right way of eating so it will never be hard again, and although I don't find how I eat difficult, I don't share that certainty, don't see how it's possible.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I guess I have a question. We don't know in any case, but let's say that a poster who says "how do I manage to eat less, I keep meaning to but I cannot" is a Margaret? What's the right response? I'd say ask specific questions about what she is struggling with -- IMO, too often people jump in and say "this is what I did, you should do this" and so often that's something like "go low carb" which might be a good answer, but we lack information to say it is -- and then try to give suggestions. She may say "no, I can't, no, I can't" in which case I personally will assume she's not ready yet but that maybe she has some things to think about and will wish her well and also say if she's not ready to make certain changes, that's okay. I don't see what else we could do or why that would be cruel or non-empathetic.
I try to ask questions to get to the root of the issue by asking questions--what are your height and weight? How long have you been trying to lose weight? Is there a specific problem that you are having with losing weight? I really try to tailor my answers to the poster rather than throwing out generic advice. I might advise one person to simply eat a little bit less today than she did yesterday (2 eggs instead of 3, etc.) and not worry about logging calories. I might suggest that another person should measure to the gram.
Do I ever get to the point where I decide that I've helped all I can? Absolutely. It's not terribly difficult to see when a poster is resistant to trying anything. There are definitely some posters like that. But I would say that 95% are willing to put forth some effort.1 -
First, I wanted to say thank you for the excellent post.
Much of what you say reminds me of my experience with my older daughter. She is on the autism spectrum, albeit high functioning. Many people don't even realize it unless they spend a lot of time around her, which leads to a bunch of false beliefs about her and her character, as well as our parenting skills, which is always amusing.
She doesn't get a choice with autism, but she does get choices as to what she can do to deal with it. We are fortunate to have access to resources that can help, but she still struggles. She's not stupid. She's not lazy. She works harder than most neurotypical kids in her class, because even after a full day of school she then heads into hours of therapy just to get where they are. She is just as capable as every other child in that class and is just as able to be successful at anything she tries. But the road for her to get there is usually a lot longer and a lot more difficult. Once she has it down, she's good to go, but figuring out how to help her get there is a challenge for her, and us, and her therapists.
I often think about her when I am reading someone's posts here on the forums. I can't get mad at my daughter when she struggles, and I don't blame her when she feels like something is overwhelming or it's all just too much. I just focus on what can be accomplished, even it's something as minuscule as finally getting a pencil from a drawer after 2 hours of tantrums. So I try not to dismiss the struggles of others, even if the solution seems really easy to me, and just remember that results are not always an indicator of the level of effort.
Poignant and deeply relevant analogy. Life isn't fair and some people have a higher hill to climb. That doesn't mean they can't. Many do. Nor does it mean those born on top can't fail. Many of those do, too. It does mean assumptions or condemnation based on appearance can be misguided (trying for a nicer word than ignorant.)
Also, remember you don't know how hard anyone has had it. Maybe one of those people you condemn here for being misguided or ignorant have had far more struggles and difficulty than you realize. One of my issues is that some find it helpful to default to a logical approach (like Aaron, and I relate to that in many areas of life) and others who find it helpful to rant on the forums or to ask questions before even trying to figure stuff out (whereas I don't think I ever asked a question on the boards since it's contrary to what feels right to me). There seems to be a bias that if you put it all out there and talk about how you can't or find it hard, well, you must need sympathy and will be easily hurt with a blunt comment, whereas someone who is more reserved, well, that person must have it easy and can't be hurt and abuse aimed his or her way is deserved and easily taken.
One of my defense mechanisms when I was fat was to pretend I did not care what others thought of me and did not mind being fat and didn't wish to lose weight. I kept this up while losing (not letting on that I was trying to diet). People who noticed I lost a lot assumed it was really easy for me and that the whole experience was, including being fat. That's not so -- I just find it a weakness to let on to weakness more than I should, at least among a lot of people.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I guess I have a question. We don't know in any case, but let's say that a poster who says "how do I manage to eat less, I keep meaning to but I cannot" is a Margaret? What's the right response? I'd say ask specific questions about what she is struggling with -- IMO, too often people jump in and say "this is what I did, you should do this" and so often that's something like "go low carb" which might be a good answer, but we lack information to say it is -- and then try to give suggestions. She may say "no, I can't, no, I can't" in which case I personally will assume she's not ready yet but that maybe she has some things to think about and will wish her well and also say if she's not ready to make certain changes, that's okay. I don't see what else we could do or why that would be cruel or non-empathetic.
I try to ask questions to get to the root of the issue by asking questions--what are your height and weight? How long have you been trying to lose weight? Is there a specific problem that you are having with losing weight? I really try to tailor my answers to the poster rather than throwing out generic advice. I might advise one person to simply eat a little bit less today than she did yesterday (2 eggs instead of 3, etc.) and not worry about logging calories. I might suggest that another person should measure to the gram.
Do I ever get to the point where I decide that I've helped all I can? Absolutely. It's not terribly difficult to see when a poster is resistant to trying anything. There are definitely some posters like that. But I would say that 95% are willing to put forth some effort.
Yeah, I pretty much agree with all this, although 95% seems a bit higher than I'd say and I admit to avoiding some of the threads where I think the OP is trolling or looks like she isn't really interested in help or it's a topic that I know is not one I'm patient with (I won't eat vegetables is one I can't help with, as I don't get it and have a blindspot with pickiness--it bugs me--but of course that's my issue, which is why I stay away). I actually do find that where the OP is really struggling, is more like a Margaret and less "I have 10 lbs to lose by tomorrow, will this fad diet work?" that people tend to be pretty helpful and patient. Maybe you have a different impression, but I think this is a pretty good place for those people. I just do think that ultimately outsiders can't do too much -- the person is the one who must be there or not. But something positive may come out of it no matter what.)1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
I believe if anyone prioritizes their health, puts in the time to calorically restrict and exercise then they can lose weight, gain strength and become a healthier version of themselves yes. I don't believe in the special snowflake who can accurately calorie restrict and exercise hard and still not gain strength or lose weight. This isn't a negative viewpoint, its an optimistic one.
What I DON'T do is think that someone who has prioritized something other than their health is automatically wrong. Some people have other things in their life they may deem more important and that is their call.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you are ALSO inherently assuming the ability to adhere to the caloric restriction?
If the person isn't flawed then yes, if they are flawed then they need to address that. Like I said once you say someone IS prioritizing their health and isn't being successful then they are innefectual for some reason and at that point one kind of does have to be critical of them. Being critical isn't the same thing as being mean. At somepoint you need to say to them, hey...you are *kitten* something up...lets look into it and try to figure out what it is.
I see it quite a bit differently.
If someone is struggling with diet adherence, you need to address a variety of factors many of which have nothing to do with character flaws.
It has to do with dietary methodology, food environment, stress management, and of course obvious things like food selection habits and making adjustments or manipulations to calorie and macronutrient intake.
Now I will say that there probably are many cases where it's some sort of emotional issue or character defect but I tend to think that it's about matching a sustainable methodology to the individual.
In my own life, I'm not sure that's so.
There was a period of time when I was reluctantly going to my trainer, not otherwise exercising, and eating badly and gaining weight (this was when I first started regaining). She knew what was up, but didn't know what to do, so just kept encouraging me and added in more cardio to our sessions (I'd been doing cardio on my own up to that point). She probably asked some questions, which I brushed off. I eventually quit (made easier by her moving away). I don't think my issue was character flaw, but I also don't think it was diet methodology, etc. I think I was not motivated/willing to make fitness a priority due to other things in my life. I don't think changing what I was eating (as some in the other thread seemed to think was the answer) would have mattered, in terms of if I just ate fewer carbs I wouldn't overeat, if I cut out sweets I wouldn't overeat (which presumes the motivation/determination to follow through on that anyway). I think it was -- and usually is -- an absence of caring. In saying this, I am NOT saying that the person who doesn't care is a bad person, and I am also more trying to think this through than making an argument. When I care, really care, I will make any approach work, although some will obviously be more feasible or pleasant to me than others and some are more likely to be a long-term, easy habit eventually.
Yeah, maybe it was an emotional issue (in part, probably), but I think it's really easy for people to just feel like they don't want to even without that, that it's too much. This is actually something I worry about, since how do I know it won't happen again. So many people seem certain that they found the right way of eating so it will never be hard again, and although I don't find how I eat difficult, I don't share that certainty, don't see how it's possible.
I don't doubt that some people experience this to some degree.
Someone can go through phases of not caring and for some people it's true that the thing they need is to care more.
And there are limited tools you can use to facilitate or nurture that in a client to help move them along -- in many cases it's quite tough from a coaching standpoint.
But I also think in many cases people assume the issue is lack of caring enough when that's not the case.
I'd also add that I'm a firm believer that methodology can effect motivation, and that there are things that you can do to attempt to keep progress moving along during periods where motivation is lower.1 -
Hmm, interestingly, here is a post I could have written, back in the day:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10473411/i-cant-seem-to-win-i-lose-motivation-so-fast#latest
And this person got a ton of good and IMO non-judgmental advice.2 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »
It was uber-fatties, and I said both of them.
#dealwiddit
Oh god, you actually made me do that.
Seriously, you'd have to eat around my family to understand. Going to holiday functions is like watching cattle at a trough, only the cattle are commenting at you for being "too skinny", whilst still cursing their own genetics, and still completely missing the screwiness of the entire situation.2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »
It was uber-fatties, and I said both of them.
#dealwiddit
Oh god, you actually made me do that.
Seriously, you'd have to eat around my family to understand. Going to holiday functions is like watching cattle at a trough, only the cattle are commenting at you for being "too skinny", whilst still cursing their own genetics, and still completely missing the screwiness of the entire situation.
The terms you use are plain and simple being honest, and being honest with your self! I could have used the words curvy or big boned or any other BS to make myself feel better. But the honest, realistic thing was i was FAT, there aint no getting around that fact.2 -
Calling yourself these things maybe honest, but calling your family members these things?
I respectfully request this poster (who has made some very insightful posts as well) to think about the person/family member, they are not their body weight, they are not the what they eat, there is a lot more to them then appearance. Calling and describing humans this way saddens me greatly let alone your family. Honest is one thing but you could choose softer ways to be honest. Perhaps you can even be thankful that their appearance or way they eat inspires you to continue to work on your physical form?
It would crush me to come on here and see my son said these things about me or anyone else (if your number after your name is your birthdate I have a son your age). Often times people feel bad enough about themselves and have no idea how to dig themselves out of a hole. There is so much misinformation out there and almost zero information on how to maintain weight. Some just give up.
Anyways just what I think, otherwise I will deal with it:).6 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
I believe if anyone prioritizes their health, puts in the time to calorically restrict and exercise then they can lose weight, gain strength and become a healthier version of themselves yes. I don't believe in the special snowflake who can accurately calorie restrict and exercise hard and still not gain strength or lose weight. This isn't a negative viewpoint, its an optimistic one.
What I DON'T do is think that someone who has prioritized something other than their health is automatically wrong. Some people have other things in their life they may deem more important and that is their call.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you are ALSO inherently assuming the ability to adhere to the caloric restriction?
If the person isn't flawed then yes, if they are flawed then they need to address that. Like I said once you say someone IS prioritizing their health and isn't being successful then they are innefectual for some reason and at that point one kind of does have to be critical of them. Being critical isn't the same thing as being mean. At somepoint you need to say to them, hey...you are *kitten* something up...lets look into it and try to figure out what it is.
I see it quite a bit differently.
If someone is struggling with diet adherence, you need to address a variety of factors many of which have nothing to do with character flaws.
It has to do with dietary methodology, food environment, stress management, and of course obvious things like food selection habits and making adjustments or manipulations to calorie and macronutrient intake.
Now I will say that there probably are many cases where it's some sort of emotional issue or character defect but I tend to think that it's about matching a sustainable methodology to the individual.
And I know that some people will think that I am just being overly sensitive and that's fine especially with what I'm about to say here:
You seem to be assuming that it is a character flaw if someone cannot adhere, and I think that's another oversimplification that asserts that the person must just be incompetent.
I actually never said charecter flaw and I never said incompetent, I said inneffectual. Someone can be inneffectual because they are applying the wrong method. Someone might be inneffectual at moving a heavy object because they haven't been introduced to the concept of a dolly or a lever. That just means they are ignorant of the appropriate approach. Is ignorance a character flaw? I suppose thats debatable but I wouldn't consider it such, its a flaw though that does need to be addressed.
Perhaps "inneffectual" education?
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Calling yourself these things maybe honest, but calling your family members these things?
I respectfully request this poster (who has made some very insightful posts as well) to think about the person/family member, they are not their body weight, they are not the what they eat, there is a lot more to them then appearance. Calling and describing humans this way saddens me greatly let alone your family. Honest is one thing but you could choose softer ways to be honest. Perhaps you can even be thankful that their appearance or way they eat inspires you to continue to work on your physical form?
It would crush me to come on here and see my son said these things about me or anyone else (if your number after your name is your birthdate I have a son your age). Often times people feel bad enough about themselves and have no idea how to dig themselves out of a hole. There is so much misinformation out there and almost zero information on how to maintain weight. Some just give up.
Anyways just what I think, otherwise I will deal with it:).
While this is valid for you and your sensibilities it is not valid for everyone. It would not have crushed me, it may have made me laugh or have pissed me off, it might have made me think and look at myself, it may even have been the trigger for me to effect change in my life.
I think your last line is appropriate, that is just the way you think. Different families have different sensibilities as do different cultures and countries. All concepts are valid in discussion and I think @Gallowmere1984 use of words is too, within his own context .
There are words, and attitudes, that friends who are from other cultures use that rankle with me, I would probably have, and have had, the same reaction to yours here so I'm not having a go..I'm just continuing the discussion in recognising there is an interpretative dissonance that comes from this being an international site.1 -
Understood Sue. Totally respect a lot of your posts as well as Gallows.
Doesn't stop me from hoping people see people for more than their outward appearance regardless of culture and hoping people use less hurtful terms to describe folks, especially on a weight loss thread.
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Off topic for this thread, as I don't think it has anything to do with the Margaret/Chad comparison or how people get fat, but I do consider certain types and levels of ignorance to be a character flaw, as I think people choose to be that ignorant and about some things that's just not a responsible choice. I think we are often too quick as a society to just assume people can't help it when they can and the assumption should be that people are not completely and ridiculous ignorant (as I think that would make it more necessary to not choose to be ignorant, basically serve as an expectation and encouragement to be more knowledgeable and competent).1
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It was a point that made a lot of sense, it just missed the mark a little bit, and that little bit is important.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
I think the ability to manage weight depends on whether the person believes that their food intake - and subsequently their weight - is something they can control, and that their food choices makes them feel good.2 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
It was a point that made a lot of sense, it just missed the mark a little bit, and that little bit is important.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
I think the ability to manage weight depends on whether the person believes that their food intake - and subsequently their weight - is something they can control, and that their food choices makes them feel good.
This would absolutely be a helpful belief as far as taking ownership but this belief by itself is not enough for someone to successfully manage their weight.1 -
Plus a little bit of knowledge, that I think everybody older than eight years, has.kommodevaran wrote: »
It was a point that made a lot of sense, it just missed the mark a little bit, and that little bit is important.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
I think the ability to manage weight depends on whether the person believes that their food intake - and subsequently their weight - is something they can control, and that their food choices makes them feel good.
This would absolutely be a helpful belief as far as taking ownership but this belief by itself is not enough for someone to successfully manage their weight.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
Plus a little bit of knowledge, that I think everybody older than eight years, has.kommodevaran wrote: »
It was a point that made a lot of sense, it just missed the mark a little bit, and that little bit is important.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
I think the ability to manage weight depends on whether the person believes that their food intake - and subsequently their weight - is something they can control, and that their food choices makes them feel good.
This would absolutely be a helpful belief as far as taking ownership but this belief by itself is not enough for someone to successfully manage their weight.
Diet adherence is not as simple as believing in yourself and not being dumber than an eight year old.2 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
It was a point that made a lot of sense, it just missed the mark a little bit, and that little bit is important.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
I think the ability to manage weight depends on whether the person believes that their food intake - and subsequently their weight - is something they can control, and that their food choices makes them feel good.
I think this is a huge part of it, yes. I know realizing that was extremely important for me.1 -
This content has been removed.
-
kommodevaran wrote: »
Plus a little bit of knowledge, that I think everybody older than eight years, has.kommodevaran wrote: »
It was a point that made a lot of sense, it just missed the mark a little bit, and that little bit is important.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
I think the ability to manage weight depends on whether the person believes that their food intake - and subsequently their weight - is something they can control, and that their food choices makes them feel good.
This would absolutely be a helpful belief as far as taking ownership but this belief by itself is not enough for someone to successfully manage their weight.
Diet adherence is not as simple as believing in yourself and not being dumber than an eight year old.
Yeah if only we could bottle what makes someone adhere to a plan at one stage in their life, what a money-spinner that will be
Adherence is so personal, so subjective, so dependent on so many factors in ones life coming together to bolster willpower
I know that for 30 years I was able to follow various diet plans, and/or fitness plans. I know it wasn't until I hit 47 that it ever stuck for longer than a year ..I do not believe that is because I just went CICO and found a trainer / way of exercising that suits me ...I think there were a myriad of others factors in my life coming together at that point and I'm fairly self-analytical and still couldn't tell you why now and why not before ...I have had stronger reasons and motivations before including planned pregnancy, lots of time on my hands, serious health issues etc ...but something clicked into place and I put my effort into not letting it unclick and I still do
Maybe weight control and fitness is down to dumb luck in the end
But it has to start somewhere
1 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
It was a point that made a lot of sense, it just missed the mark a little bit, and that little bit is important.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
I think the ability to manage weight depends on whether the person believes that their food intake - and subsequently their weight - is something they can control, and that their food choices makes them feel good.
In all my years yoyo dieting losing and gaining I never got a grasp on maintaining. I feel like I was the dumbest person on the planet. Im not sure if I skipped that chapter or what?0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
It was a point that made a lot of sense, it just missed the mark a little bit, and that little bit is important.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
I think the ability to manage weight depends on whether the person believes that their food intake - and subsequently their weight - is something they can control, and that their food choices makes them feel good.
In all my years yoyo dieting losing and gaining I never got a grasp on maintaining. I feel like I was the dumbest person on the planet. Im not sure if I skipped that chapter or what?
I find maintaining harder too. I think it's because I need to be mindful, and that's easy when I'm into focusing on fitness, but becomes easier to slide out of once it's not my main focus, even if I found it fun and satisfying when it was. I need to find a reason to focus and be mindful even when not losing (when there's not that bonus to make it fun). This is actually why focusing on training for things or recomp likely can be helpful, I dunno -- it's what I've been trying anyway.1 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
Plus a little bit of knowledge, that I think everybody older than eight years, has.kommodevaran wrote: »
It was a point that made a lot of sense, it just missed the mark a little bit, and that little bit is important.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
I think the ability to manage weight depends on whether the person believes that their food intake - and subsequently their weight - is something they can control, and that their food choices makes them feel good.
This would absolutely be a helpful belief as far as taking ownership but this belief by itself is not enough for someone to successfully manage their weight.
Diet adherence is not as simple as believing in yourself and not being dumber than an eight year old.
Yeah if only we could bottle what makes someone adhere to a plan at one stage in their life, what a money-spinner that will be
Adherence is so personal, so subjective, so dependent on so many factors in ones life coming together to bolster willpower
I know that for 30 years I was able to follow various diet plans, and/or fitness plans. I know it wasn't until I hit 47 that it ever stuck for longer than a year ..I do not believe that is because I just went CICO and found a trainer / way of exercising that suits me ...I think there were a myriad of others factors in my life coming together at that point and I'm fairly self-analytical and still couldn't tell you why now and why not before ...I have had stronger reasons and motivations before including planned pregnancy, lots of time on my hands, serious health issues etc ...but something clicked into place and I put my effort into not letting it unclick and I still do
Maybe weight control and fitness is down to dumb luck in the end
But it has to start somewhere
It does, and it has to start with a reason to do it in the first place along with personal responsibility and taking ownership.
But these things don't by themselves necessarily cause someone to be able to adhere to diet or training.
And assuming they do (not saying you're making this assumption by the way) implies that people who can't adhere either don't care, or just make excuses, or are dumb.
And while SOME people do make excuses, or are lazy, or don't get it, it's ignorant and mean to assume it's this way with all people.
And that's one of the main points of my thread.
1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »
It was a point that made a lot of sense, it just missed the mark a little bit, and that little bit is important.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
I think the ability to manage weight depends on whether the person believes that their food intake - and subsequently their weight - is something they can control, and that their food choices makes them feel good.
In all my years yoyo dieting losing and gaining I never got a grasp on maintaining. I feel like I was the dumbest person on the planet. Im not sure if I skipped that chapter or what?
I find maintaining harder too. I think it's because I need to be mindful, and that's easy when I'm into focusing on fitness, but becomes easier to slide out of once it's not my main focus, even if I found it fun and satisfying when it was. I need to find a reason to focus and be mindful even when not losing (when there's not that bonus to make it fun). This is actually why focusing on training for things or recomp likely can be helpful, I dunno -- it's what I've been trying anyway.
In my opinion one main reason maintenance is seemingly harder is that it doesn't have a theoretical end date for most people.
Another major reason is that maintaining weight tends to provide fewer positive feedback loops that can provide motivation.
The majority of body composition and weight metrics (in fact basically all
of them--weight, measurements, appearance, clothing, photographs, body fat percentage) either stop changing or the changes slow to a crawl and so you don't receive behavior reinforcing feedback that you'd get while successfully dieting.
Which is also why performance based metrics can become quite useful.
There are likely plenty of other reasons too like physiological stuff that comes with maintaining weight loss/etc0
This discussion has been closed.
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