Obesity. Are you just lazy and dumb?
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.5 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
Hey, I never said I'd make a good PT, or coach, or anything involving people needing me to trust them or their judgment. I absolutely do assume that people are *kitten* off when easily accomplished things don't get done. It's been ingrained in me from over a decade of working in the paving field.1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
I just come from the perspective that it is possible to live in extreme poverty and not able to buy awesome foods and still be normal weight without extreme measures. I do have a high level of education and was formally anorexic so I guess that is the difference.3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
Hey, I never said I'd make a good PT, or coach, or anything involving people needing me to trust them or their judgment. I absolutely do assume that people are *kitten* off when easily accomplished things don't get done. It's been ingrained in me from over a decade of working in the paving field.
I appreciate your honesty.
I think the implication that weight loss is an easily accomplished thing is false and we have data to prove it.
However it may be easy for you and if so that's great.3 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
Who are you referring to?0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
Who are you referring to?
It's a general feeling that I have when I read replies talking about excuses and personal responsibility despite me explicitly stating that each of these individuals will succeed based on a series of choices they make.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
Hey, I never said I'd make a good PT, or coach, or anything involving people needing me to trust them or their judgment. I absolutely do assume that people are *kitten* off when easily accomplished things don't get done. It's been ingrained in me from over a decade of working in the paving field.
I appreciate your honesty.
I think the implication that weight loss is an easily accomplished thing is false and we have data to prove it.
However it may be easy for you and if so that's great.
I get this a lot. Apparently a lot of things are easy for me that are insurmountable for the majority. Dropping fat, keeping the same job since I was 19, self-teaching how to run new equipment that we buy, basic math, spelling...everything except keeping a marriage, and that damned 3.5x bodyweight deadlift that I am after.
So yeah, I'll admit, I am probably a bit biased in my outlook on these things, but for me, it always simply comes down to that cliched Yoda *kitten* "do or do not, there is no try".2 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
Who are you referring to?
It's a general feeling that I have when I read replies talking about excuses and personal responsibility despite me explicitly stating that each of these individuals will succeed based on a series of choices they make.
Fair enough and maybe my inferences are the result of a cross cultural issue
It's rather a given that any individual succeeds based on their choices, but the tenor of your OP that it's not their fault when and if they fail and it plays into victim mentality which is IMHO a less than useful concept at the coal face
Never mind ...nobody speaks to all people at all times, I just generally hang off your advice and was fairly surprised at my reaction to this one1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
Who are you referring to?
It's a general feeling that I have when I read replies talking about excuses and personal responsibility despite me explicitly stating that each of these individuals will succeed based on a series of choices they make.
Fair enough and maybe my inferences are the result of a cross cultural issue
It's rather a given that any individual succeeds based on their choices, but the tenor of your OP that it's not their fault when and if they fail and it plays into victim mentality which is IMHO a less than useful concept at the coal face
And this is an example of not reading what I wrote.
I'm not making any statements about blame, you are doing that.
3 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
Who are you referring to?
It's a general feeling that I have when I read replies talking about excuses and personal responsibility despite me explicitly stating that each of these individuals will succeed based on a series of choices they make.
Fair enough and maybe my inferences are the result of a cross cultural issue
It's rather a given that any individual succeeds based on their choices, but the tenor of your OP that it's not their fault when and if they fail and it plays into victim mentality which is IMHO a less than useful concept at the coal face
And this is an example of not reading what I wrote.
I'm not making any statements about blame, you are doing that.
You absolutely did not directly state it in any way, but the implication is there, all the way until you make your closing statement regarding choices.
As such, this is one of those pieces where it's vital that one read the whole thing. Unfortunately, one should expect otherwise on an internet forum.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
Who are you referring to?
It's a general feeling that I have when I read replies talking about excuses and personal responsibility despite me explicitly stating that each of these individuals will succeed based on a series of choices they make.
Fair enough and maybe my inferences are the result of a cross cultural issue
It's rather a given that any individual succeeds based on their choices, but the tenor of your OP that it's not their fault when and if they fail and it plays into victim mentality which is IMHO a less than useful concept at the coal face
And this is an example of not reading what I wrote.
I'm not making any statements about blame, you are doing that.
You absolutely did not directly state it in any way, but the implication is there, all the way until you make your closing statement regarding choices.
With no offense meant by this, given your viewpoints on obesity expressed here I'm not surprised that you have made this about blame despite it not being there.3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
Who are you referring to?
It's a general feeling that I have when I read replies talking about excuses and personal responsibility despite me explicitly stating that each of these individuals will succeed based on a series of choices they make.
Fair enough and maybe my inferences are the result of a cross cultural issue
It's rather a given that any individual succeeds based on their choices, but the tenor of your OP that it's not their fault when and if they fail and it plays into victim mentality which is IMHO a less than useful concept at the coal face
And this is an example of not reading what I wrote.
I'm not making any statements about blame, you are doing that.
You absolutely did not directly state it in any way, but the implication is there, all the way until you make your closing statement regarding choices.
What's no offense meant by this, given your viewpoints on obesity expressed here I'm not surprised that you have made this about blame despite it not being there.
What can I say? The harshest critics of excuses are usually those who learned to stop making them. It's the reason I refuse to have children. I'd just be angry all of the time, watching someone make the same mistakes that I did all over again.
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singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
Who are you referring to?
It's a general feeling that I have when I read replies talking about excuses and personal responsibility despite me explicitly stating that each of these individuals will succeed based on a series of choices they make.
Fair enough and maybe my inferences are the result of a cross cultural issue
It's rather a given that any individual succeeds based on their choices, but the tenor of your OP that it's not their fault when and if they fail and it plays into victim mentality which is IMHO a less than useful concept at the coal face
And this is an example of not reading what I wrote.
I'm not making any statements about blame, you are doing that.
Oh am I? Where am I talking of blame?
I refer to personal responsibility, excuses and victim mentalities being unhelpful in affecting and maintaining change
But blame? That'd an external judgement and on that we are agreed, it isn't helpful0 -
There's a prevailing attitude on this site and the fitness community at large that "If I can do it, anyone can" and "I had it really hard and did it anyway so you should too." I don't necessarily disagree with these statements and attitudes, but I do think some people get so caught up in their own success that they can't really place themselves back at the bottom of the mountain now that they have the view from the top. Sure, they remember that it hurt at first, they remember the money they wasted falling for scams, they remember the process of educating themselves, they remember some hard choices. But they don't really feel the struggle anymore. That's why empathy is so important - you think you can relate, but if you fail to feel how that person is feeling, you won't be able to provide them the support they need to stick with it.
I also think one reason the fitness community handles the Margarets of the world poorly is because they can't wrap their heads around people who don't enjoy how exercise and a balanced diet makes them feel. Not everyone thrives off the high from exercise. Some people appreciate the comfort of mac and cheese much more than the energy and alertness provided by a balanced diet. Some people feel that they have to sacrifice too much to work out and eat right - less time for work, friends, or hobbies they're passionate about. Many in the fitness community don't get how people could not enjoy fitness, and then play the "But your health!" card without considering the person's mental and emotional well-being.
Anyone can lose weight, and there are strategies than can work for everyone (Hate working out and eating salads? Don't work out, eat smaller portions of what you're already eating bulked up with cooked veggies.), but when mainstream information about losing weight is paired with photos of salads and running and planks, how does Margaret find a message that speaks to her and motivates her? Maybe the fitness community should advertise to each other less and reach out to Margaret a little more. Maybe she'd feel like weight loss is within her grasp despite her difficult situation.
I know I used the word "feel" a lot in this post, and I know some on this board don't really get the feels... But some people are emotionally driven, and if we're genuinely talking about helping people here, it can be important to respect and connect to that.21 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
Who are you referring to?
It's a general feeling that I have when I read replies talking about excuses and personal responsibility despite me explicitly stating that each of these individuals will succeed based on a series of choices they make.
Fair enough and maybe my inferences are the result of a cross cultural issue
It's rather a given that any individual succeeds based on their choices, but the tenor of your OP that it's not their fault when and if they fail and it plays into victim mentality which is IMHO a less than useful concept at the coal face
And this is an example of not reading what I wrote.
I'm not making any statements about blame, you are doing that.
Oh am I? Where am I talking of blame?
I refer to personal responsibility, excuses and victim mentalities being unhelpful in affecting and maintaining change
But blame? That'd an external judgement and on that we are agreed, it isn't helpful
Sorry, what you specifically said was "not their fault when and if they fail" which to me is evaluating blame. The point of the post isn't about fault and I am making no mention of who is at fault.
Also score one for irony in that I accused you of reading things that weren't there and I did the same thing to you in my reply.
2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
Who are you referring to?
It's a general feeling that I have when I read replies talking about excuses and personal responsibility despite me explicitly stating that each of these individuals will succeed based on a series of choices they make.
Fair enough and maybe my inferences are the result of a cross cultural issue
It's rather a given that any individual succeeds based on their choices, but the tenor of your OP that it's not their fault when and if they fail and it plays into victim mentality which is IMHO a less than useful concept at the coal face
And this is an example of not reading what I wrote.
I'm not making any statements about blame, you are doing that.
You absolutely did not directly state it in any way, but the implication is there, all the way until you make your closing statement regarding choices.
What's no offense meant by this, given your viewpoints on obesity expressed here I'm not surprised that you have made this about blame despite it not being there.
What can I say? The harshest critics of excuses are usually those who learned to stop making them. It's the reason I refuse to have children. I'd just be angry all of the time, watching someone make the same mistakes that I did all over again.
Like I said, I appreciate your honesty. But I think you're reading things that aren't there.0 -
I like love this post. My last job was in the inner city and the grocery store that was near it stocked mostly cheap and processed foods, had rows and rows of refrigerators for the pizzas and other frozen foods and junk. Cheap candy and cookies along with sugary drinks filled the aisle and were easily accessible. You would be lucky to get plain yogurt there. It was the worst and a perfect storm to fail. I think of the elderly people in that area, or people with other health issues not having many options. I talked to the manager and shared my frustration and he agreed that the variety or healthy options wasn't there and said that they stocked the food based on what sold in the area. If I went to another store in that chain in a thriving area I would have so many different options.1
-
chocolate_owl wrote: »There's a prevailing attitude on this site and the fitness community at large that "If I can do it, anyone can" and "I had it really hard and did it anyway so you should too." I don't necessarily disagree with these statements and attitudes, but I do think some people get so caught up in their own success that they can't really place themselves back at the bottom of the mountain now that they have the view from the top. Sure, they remember that it hurt at first, they remember the money they wasted falling for scams, they remember the process of educating themselves, they remember some hard choices. But they don't really feel the struggle anymore. That's why empathy is so important - you think you can relate, but if you fail to feel how that person is feeling, you won't be able to provide them the support they need to stick with it.
I also think one reason the fitness community handles the Margarets of the world poorly is because they can't wrap their heads around people who don't enjoy how exercise and a balanced diet makes them feel. Not everyone thrives off the high from exercise. Some people appreciate the comfort of mac and cheese much more than the energy and alertness provided by a balanced diet. Some people feel that they have to sacrifice too much to work out and eat right - less time for work, friends, or hobbies they're passionate about. Many in the fitness community don't get how people could not enjoy fitness, and then play the "But your health!" card without considering the person's mental and emotional well-being.
Anyone can lose weight, and there are strategies than can work for everyone (Hate working out and eating salads? Don't work out, eat smaller portions of what you're already eating bulked up with cooked veggies.), but when mainstream information about losing weight is paired with photos of salads and running and planks, how does Margaret find a message that speaks to her and motivates her? Maybe the fitness community should advertise to each other less and reach out to Margaret a little more. Maybe she'd feel like weight loss is within her grasp despite her difficult situation.
I know I used the word "feel" a lot in this post, and I know some on this board don't really get the feels... But some people are emotionally driven, and if we're genuinely talking about helping people here, it can be important to respect and connect to that.
I can absolutely appreciate this. As I've stated many times, my start came from emotion, not facts. For me, that emotion was pure self-loathing, rage and hatred. That doesn't work for everyone of course (it can be very destructive to a lot of people), but the basic premise is still the same. It just so happened that my switch got flipped by just the right person, at just the right time.
What concerns me, is that unless you know someone very personally, you hitting the right emotional switch for them will be a blind dart toss at a moving target, at best. You can empathize with their plight all you want, but if you don't know (or find, usually through dumb luck) their trigger, you're pissing in the wind trying to take the feels approach.0
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