Obesity. Are you just lazy and dumb?
Replies
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I really liked the post by the OP and is 100% right. Think this was also in reaction to statements yesterday that 'we shouldn't listen to obese people when it comes to losing weight'. There can be a number of factors that count against any one person trying to lose weight.
Great post mate
I think you misinterpreted what was said in the other thread.2 -
All just reasons and excuses for both of their physical conditions it's easy to play the blame Game and refer to our parents poor diet but at the end of the day calories in calories out and will power are the answers is very easy to use an excuse to cover your lack of willpower2
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Yes, everyone knows at the end of the day CICO - and OP certainly wasnt saying otherwise.
am bit lost as to why people think that over rides OP's point.
and even more lost as to the posters who have moved into sanctimonious " Well she just shouldnt have had kids then" logic.7 -
shredcamps wrote: »All just reasons and excuses for both of their physical conditions it's easy to play the blame Game and refer to our parents poor diet but at the end of the day calories in calories out and will power are the answers is very easy to use an excuse to cover your lack of willpowertrigden1991 wrote: »I really liked the post by the OP and is 100% right. Think this was also in reaction to statements yesterday that 'we shouldn't listen to obese people when it comes to losing weight'. There can be a number of factors that count against any one person trying to lose weight.
Great post mate
I think you misinterpreted what was said in the other thread.
Just for some clarification so I'm not further misunderstood -- the conversation in the other thread motivated me to write this however this isn't some sort of "rebuttal" to the other thread or anything of that sort. If it were, I'd have specifically addressed things in the other thread and replied there with this.
I'm satisfied with the discussion in that thread and feel like it was addressed adequately at least from my perspective.
This also isn't directed to anyone in particular although my hopes are that it causes people to think about the multifactorial nature of obesity and how they easily form knee jerk opinions about others without knowing any context.1 -
shredcamps wrote: »All just reasons and excuses for both of their physical conditions it's easy to play the blame Game and refer to our parents poor diet but at the end of the day calories in calories out and will power are the answers is very easy to use an excuse to cover your lack of willpower
I'm glad you have all the answers and I'd love to subscribe to your newsletter.
Obesity solved.
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trigden1991 wrote: »
I appreciate it is harder for some than others. I get that society stacks the decks. But there's also a line of personal responsibility.
I couldn't agree more with this line. Life is not fair or equal but if you are not happy with your situation then you and you alone can make the decision to make a change.
Margaret may have all the odds stacked against her but CICO still applies.
I don't disagree with this.0 -
When a car driver rearranged my knee (and the front of his car) I transformed from fit, strong, slim, intelligent, determined and hard working into a fat, stupid, lazy, slob with no will-power.
Or was it that I was depressed and disabled?
Clearly I was still the same essential me but just a fatter version, with a wonky knee.
The disabled part I managed to overcome (work round really) but the fat part took a bit longer.
I was ferociously determined to overcome the physical issues but for some unknown reason I didn't commit the same determination to cutting my weight.
I certainly did make excuses for far too long. It wasn't my fault - it was the car driver, great excuse except he clearly didn't force feed me daily.
That moment when you grasp personal responsibility for how much you stuff in your cake-hole comes to different people, in different circumstances in very different timescales. For some, sadly, that moment never comes at all.
Some will need a helping hand, some may benefit from a kick up the *kitten*, some just have to work it out for themselves. I happened to be in the last category.
Great post SideSteel.
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I would just like to come onboard and say that the obese friends that I've got are all very intelligent. I think that contributes to the problem. They know very well about food, and how dieting should work, but love to discuss it, not put it into practice. So, they continue to go round and round until they have a health scare--and then it's too late.1
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shredcamps wrote: »All just reasons and excuses for both of their physical conditions it's easy to play the blame Game and refer to our parents poor diet but at the end of the day calories in calories out and will power are the answers is very easy to use an excuse to cover your lack of willpowertrigden1991 wrote: »I really liked the post by the OP and is 100% right. Think this was also in reaction to statements yesterday that 'we shouldn't listen to obese people when it comes to losing weight'. There can be a number of factors that count against any one person trying to lose weight.
Great post mate
I think you misinterpreted what was said in the other thread.
Just for some clarification so I'm not further misunderstood -- the conversation in the other thread motivated me to write this however this isn't some sort of "rebuttal" to the other thread or anything of that sort. If it were, I'd have specifically addressed things in the other thread and replied there with this.
I'm satisfied with the discussion in that thread and feel like it was addressed adequately at least from my perspective.
This also isn't directed to anyone in particular although my hopes are that it causes people to think about the multifactorial nature of obesity and how they easily form knee jerk opinions about others without knowing any context.
Oh, I thought you had modelled your "Chad" on me. Now I'm disappointed.1 -
Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is the underlying driver of many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
My non-scientific observation is affluent people (e.g. those who can afford >$100k annually to send their kids to private school before college) are pretty fit. Less affluent people are overweight or obese at a much higher rate. To be clear, I am not saying being smart or fit makes you rich (or the converse) but that there are tons of opportunities for the rich and obstacles for the poor. Also, the obesity -food insecurity connection has been well studied and documented for over a decade in many countries.
2) As a completely opposite example, I have an obese close family member who got there the good old fashioned way--eating waaaay too much despite great genetics (no family history of obesity) and economic advantage. It's painful to see the unending health consequences and sad that so little effort was made to avert them.
My bottom line is it's hard enough to understand my own situation--how I got to be the way I am. I can't possibly get inside someone else's life experience to judge.10 -
Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is really the underlying driver of so many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
My non-scientific observation is affluent people (e.g. those who can afford >$100k annually to send their kids to private school before college) are pretty fit. Less affluent people are overweight or obese at a much higher rate. To be clear, I am not saying being smart or fit makes you rich (or the converse) but that there are tons of opportunities for the rich and obstacles for the poor. Also, the obesity -food insecurity connection has been well studied and documented for over a decade in many countries.
2) As a completely opposite example, I have an obese close family member who got there the good old fashioned way--eating waaaay too much despite great genetics (no family history of obesity) and economic advantage. It's painful to see the unending health consequences and sad that so little effort was made to avert them.
My bottom line is it's hard enough to understand my own situation--how I got to be the way I am. I can't possibly get inside someone else's life experience to judge.
Good thoughts.
I think the poverty thing is complicated and I'd be interested to see data regarding weight loss statistics and it's correlation to poverty/income rather than statistics correlating the presence of obesity with poverty.
Because as correctly pointed out earlier in this thread, wealthier areas can show a positive correlation with obesity and that likely has to do with food availability, but as you said I would tend to think that wealth would make weight loss a bit easier for reasons you've stated.0 -
Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is really the underlying driver of so many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
My non-scientific observation is affluent people (e.g. those who can afford >$100k annually to send their kids to private school before college) are pretty fit. Less affluent people are overweight or obese at a much higher rate. To be clear, I am not saying being smart or fit makes you rich (or the converse) but that there are tons of opportunities for the rich and obstacles for the poor. Also, the obesity -food insecurity connection has been well studied and documented for over a decade in many countries.
2) As a completely opposite example, I have an obese close family member who got there the good old fashioned way--eating waaaay too much despite great genetics (no family history of obesity) and economic advantage. It's painful to see the unending health consequences and sad that so little effort was made to avert them.
My bottom line is it's hard enough to understand my own situation--how I got to be the way I am. I can't possibly get inside someone else's life experience to judge.
Good thoughts.
I think the poverty thing is complicated and I'd be interested to see data regarding weight loss statistics and it's correlation to poverty/income rather than statistics correlating the presence of obesity with poverty.
Because as correctly pointed out earlier in this thread, wealthier areas can show a positive correlation with obesity and that likely has to do with food availability, but as you said I would tend to think that wealth would make weight loss a bit easier for reasons you've stated.
I've read that studies on weight loss (& keeping it off) are sparse because so few are successful. Much more data available on obesity. Thanks again for the discussion. Your insights are always appreciated.0 -
Also, the obesity -food insecurity connection has been well studied and documented for over a decade in many countries.
Hi ahoy, it would be interesting if you could elaborate a little more on the above -is it maybe in countries that are also affluent?
Maybe it would go off topic? i think the OP said this thread is about the US. I think this thread will help me understand some of the underlying issues in the US.
I have wondered why it seems that obesity is perhaps higher among the less affluent in USA, while it seems obesity is a problem for affluent people in other places outside US.
I think like someone said earlier it may require me more time to properly digest this whole discussion.0 -
wrote: »
Also, the obesity -food insecurity connection has been well studied and documented for over a decade in many countries.
Hi ahoy, it would be interesting if you could elaborate a little more on the above -is it maybe in countries that are also affluent?
Maybe it would go off topic? i think the OP said this thread is about the US. I think this thread will help me understand some of the underlying issues in the US.
I have wondered why it seems that obesity is perhaps higher among the less affluent in USA, while it seems obesity is a problem for affluent people in other places outside US.
I think like someone said earlier it may require me more time to properly digest this whole discussion.
Check the study I linked in the original post as it references other pieces of research examining other areas/etc.0 -
Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is the underlying driver of many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
countries.
) .
Wonder no more. It is! There's a huge amount of research on the generational effects of poverty0 -
Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is the underlying driver of many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
countries.
) .
Wonder no more. It is! There's a huge amount of research on the generational effects of poverty
Very true, but poverty involving people being fat is an extremely recent phenomenon, and is a relatively isolated one at that. All logic would point to true poverty being the most effective weightloss plan ever. I've never seen an obese homeless person, that wasn't actually a panhandler.1 -
I have never been dumb. I think few of us live as polarised lives as your clearly extreme examples
I was obese because I ate too much, didn't move enough and didn't commit enough to changing because I was convinced I was fine and because I was too lazy to find a way too change, it wasn't a priority to me
I'm not sure what I think about your post. I'm not one to fat shame but I also can't abide excuses.
I appreciate it is harder for some than others. I get that society stacks the decks. But there's also a line of personal responsibility.
I work with people who have the cards stacked against them in many ways (not in fitness) excuses don't cut it, failing to try is trying to fail.
I really don't know what to think of your post
Pretty much this. I think this is most of us, really.2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is the underlying driver of many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
countries.
) .
Wonder no more. It is! There's a huge amount of research on the generational effects of poverty
Very true, but poverty involving people being fat is an extremely recent phenomenon, and is a relatively isolated one at that. All logic would point to true poverty being the most effective weightloss plan ever. I've never seen an obese homeless person, that wasn't actually a panhandler.
I actually don't disagree with you at all on this point.
However at the same time I think the attached research is quite relevant and just because it's looking at a trend in the past 50 years does not invalidate the data.
I would tend to think that having more financial resource would make a weight-loss program easier And having less would make it harder but at some point when you can't even afford food then obviously weight loss would result.1 -
What about us people who are very poor (I get $730 a month on disability) and chronically ill (with major fatigue on top of it)who don't use poverty and illness as an excuse and maintain a good weight despite having everything against us? I guess it's a miracle I'm not obese4
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singingflutelady wrote: »What about us people who are very poor (I get $730 a month on disability) and chronically ill (with major fatigue on top of it)who don't use poverty and illness as an excuse and maintain a good weight despite having everything against us? I guess it's a miracle I'm not obese
What about it?
I think it's great that you've accomplished what you've accomplished.2 -
singingflutelady wrote: »What about us people who are very poor (I get $730 a month on disability) and chronically ill (with major fatigue on top of it)who don't use poverty and illness as an excuse and maintain a good weight despite having everything against us? I guess it's a miracle I'm not obese
This is pretty much how I am forced to view it. I can't hear "I don't have the energy to" or "I don't feel like it" without it going through the Babel Fish and going into my brain as "I am physically and/or mentally lazy, and have no problem being a further burden upon society by not only eating food paid for by others, but so much of it that I get fat and hit up the healthcare system later for obesity related illness costs".0 -
This post makes soooo much sense to me! And I'll tell you why....
Once upon a time, I was married with three children. My husband had a very well paying job and I worked part time and tended to the needs of my family. I belonged to a gym, we ate a lot of organic foods, shopping at Whole Foods was not a big deal, I had the time and stability I needed to focus on my health and fitness.
Then...I got a divorce.
Suddenly, I was a single mother of three living in a shoe box barely able to pay rent let alone shop at Whole Foods or keep my gym membership. When you have to make the choice between a box of Mac and cheese that cost $0.85 or a healthier option that cost much more, at that point I do not feel that it is a choice.
The world we live in makes it difficult for people with low income to live healthier lives. I'm not saying that it is impossible, but it's less likely that a person on food stamps is going to be more concerned about quality of food than quantity.8 -
I think I wasn't quite following the context/point that was being made, but my reaction was similar to Sue's (as noted by my quoting and agreeing with her). I absolutely think there are many complex reasons why people get fat or have trouble losing weight (including priorities, and sometimes I think it's totally sensible or unavoidable not to prioritize other things), but I also think it's really easy to think (wrongfully) I can't and use the excuses as reasons not to act, and when we get into these kinds of discussions I get nervous (as Sue indicated) about where the line is drawn.
I also think obesity is a bigger issue among those who are disadvantaged economically (it's extremely obvious in my city, for example, that obesity is tied up with income/poverty and also race and various social issues), but in the US it's such a common problem that assuming it's about that seems also problematic to me.
As for:But as you can see in this example, the playing field is NOT, AT ALL level. It is MUCH easier for some people (like Chad) to make health promoting choices and there are factors that DO NOT involve personal choice that may have a substantial impact on overall success at fat loss.
Of course this is true. I don't think we know who had it harder or easier, though, when it comes to individual people on this forum. And I don't think (and don't think you were saying) that a Margaret cannot lose weight.If you reduce obesity to the notion that people with obesity are just lazy, or dumb, or “just don’t care enough” you are willfully ignoring an overwhelming amount of influencing factors including but not limited to socioeconomic influences, genetic influences, environmental influences, individual psychological factors, and a laundry list of other things that make the playing field remarkably skewed, so to speak.
Sure, but I am someone who has been obese and who has been tempted to make excuses to myself at times or who just did not care enough to change at times (and doesn't think that makes me a terrible person, since I cared about other things that we more important to me at the time, and I also don't think someone who is fat must mind deeply about being fat -- it's hard for people who have always cared about being in shape to realize, maybe, but not everyone does or find it painful). For me, being able to see that certain things are things I am making choices about, whether or not they are hard to change, in my power to change at the moment, etc., is actually empowering to me. Saying "I am fat because it is harder for me than others" would not be helpful.
I think some people may be (carelessly or simply because it's hard) trying to say this, and yet getting taken as being negative toward those who are still working on it.Obesity is the result of fat accumulation caused by chronic overconsumption of calories.
It is not however, exclusively a function of how bad you want it, or how intelligent you are.
Agreed -- when I was fat I wasn't dumb at all or ignorant about how I got fat. Nor was I lazy (I worked really really hard at lots of things, things I considered more important than my weight and still do, actually).
It was true to say that I didn't want it bad enough to make it a priority, though. For example, when I quit drinking I let myself eat in a much more unrestricted way than I had before, because I was scared that being too strict would mess with the shaky hold I had on my sobriety at the time. I didn't want staying thin "enough" in the sense that I wouldn't prioritize it over other things, yeah. I don't see that as bad or stupid or about laziness.
Ultimately, I think with weight loss people have to hit a point where they really care enough to do what they need to do or not. How much this is depends -- for some it's nothing, as it's just living as they always have and find natural and like and which is consistent with their habits (and ideally we all get there). But saying "if you don't feel like you can do it" (as some people indicate when they say can't can't can't about everything suggested) isn't, IMO, saying you are lazy. It's saying maybe you aren't ready to make any changes yet, and that's okay, it's a choice. But if you want, it doesn't have to be as hard as you may think and here are some ideas.0 -
mysteps2beauty wrote: »My take....don't have kids unless you absolutely can care for them by yourself, and have great life insurance in case.
#1 reason why women are poor, usually overweight with no time for themselves is because they have a kid or two, or three. If I could get into the face of as many high school females as I could this is what I would share. Margaret has a degree in Mathematics, but since the degree wasn't a doctorate, and had no clue the sperm donor would vacate and leave her nothing, she couldn't save her from her situation because she had kids to care for by herself.
And look at Chad....if he had kids, he's not getting fat cause he didn't physically have them, nor is at home with the kids. He is out building a business, networking, socializing, probably without the ball and chain and the rug rats.
I love kids, I have one, and I love her and sacrificed so much for her. But I knew if I did not make a great income beforehand, our lives could have been much like Margaret. I still put on weight cause after work and homework and dinner, there's an exhausted Mom who has to start over again the next day, get kid ready, drop kid off at childcare/school, then get to work by 9:00 so that you can leave by 5:00 to get the kid before the 6:00p deadline (or you're paying $5 each minute you're late.
Unless you're a single dad, most men have not a clue. They are being Chad.
I find this post really offensive - maybe Margaret did have a partner at one time, but he's dead. And didnt have insurance. Now she is an economically disadvantaged single mother. She stayed home to look after the kids while her husband was alive, and now her skills are stale.
It could also have been a single father in the same situation, staying home because his wife had a better paying job.
It is so smug to think that single mothers are simply breeders. You cannot know the many circumstances that leave women particularly in these situations. Have a little compassion.18 -
Check the study I linked in the original post as it references other pieces of research examining other areas/etc.
ok SideSteel I get you are referring to the study in the link you gave above & copied here for easy reference:
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/60/11/2667
I see in that study they do mention what I had understood is correct, that is:
"High-income countries have greater rates of obesity than middle- and low-income countries (1). Countries that develop wealth also develop obesity; for instance, with economic growth in China and India, obesity rates have increased by several-fold (1). The international trend is that greater obesity tracks with greater wealth (2,3).
...
In contrast to international trends, people in America who live in the most poverty-dense counties are those most prone to obesity"
The above snippet confirms what I understood about less affluent in US being more obese. That article you shared is very informative as it gives the multiple reasons that cause higher obesity among less privileged. I had not read this article before you shared it so very grateful for this thread. I'm not sure whether I am one of the last ones to understand this poverty and obesity linkages (especially for USA) but I would highly recommend that article as reading for anyone else who has ever wondered about obesity in USA.
I also really liked the link that talks about obesity stigma (copied again for easy reference)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866597/
"Negative attitudes toward obese persons are pervasive in North American society. Numerous studies have documented harmful weight-based stereotypes that overweight and obese individuals are lazy, weak-willed, unsuccessful, unintelligent, lack self-discipline, have poor willpower, and are noncompliant with weight-loss treatment"
that is the opening of that article on stigma (which happens to be much longer than the one on linkages to poverty, so it could be hard to read on a phone)...
more insights from that article:
"Because weight-based stereotypes and prejudice so often emerge from attributions that obesity is caused and maintained by personal characteristics such as laziness or lack of willpower,10,47 there is a clear need for increased public awareness and education about the complex etiology of obesity and the significant obstacles present in efforts to achieve sustainable weight loss. The prevailing societal and media messages that reinforce blame on obese persons need to be replaced with messages that obesity is a chronic disease with a complex etiology, and a lifelong condition for most obese persons"
I would also really highly recommend this article on stigma, as it is very possible that many well intending people may not be aware of these very complex issues you have brought to awareness. I notice that this second article on stigma is written in a highly credible scientific journal for public health. Given its scientific nature it is possible it is not widely read by persons outside that field of study, so that could also explain general lack of awareness.
My opinion is that for many who may be coming from a place of privilege, coupled perhaps with a lack of awareness, it is possible that stigmatization would continue...
I confess I am one who still struggles to understand obesity, and until I was myself labeled obese, I sat in a place of privilege to see obesity as a foreign concept that was impossible to understand. This thread is shedding so much light on the issues. Until I myself experienced what I think people on mfp refer to as "fat shaming" or well intended advice, blaming me for choosing to be obese, I couldn't possibly walk in another shoes. Until I heard and reflected on some famous words (I am human, nothing human can be alien to me), I couldn't possibly relate. My eyes, ears and heart are now open.
I have been following threads on mfp for a couple of weeks now and I could be wrong, but I have sensed some of the stigmatization in some responses (which I am sure are well meaning). I think it is perhaps lack of awareness.
I am learning so much through mfp, thanks!!
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I think I wasn't quite following the context/point that was being made, but my reaction was similar to Sue's (as noted by my quoting and agreeing with her). I absolutely think there are many complex reasons why people get fat or have trouble losing weight (including priorities, and sometimes I think it's totally sensible or unavoidable not to prioritize other things), but I also think it's really easy to think (wrongfully) I can't and use the excuses as reasons not to act, and when we get into these kinds of discussions I get nervous (as Sue indicated) about where the line is drawn.
I also think obesity is a bigger issue among those who are disadvantaged economically (it's extremely obvious in my city, for example, that obesity is tied up with income/poverty and also race and various social issues), but in the US it's such a common problem that assuming it's about that seems also problematic to me.
As for:But as you can see in this example, the playing field is NOT, AT ALL level. It is MUCH easier for some people (like Chad) to make health promoting choices and there are factors that DO NOT involve personal choice that may have a substantial impact on overall success at fat loss.
Of course this is true. I don't think we know who had it harder or easier, though, when it comes to individual people on this forum. And I don't think (and don't think you were saying) that a Margaret cannot lose weight.If you reduce obesity to the notion that people with obesity are just lazy, or dumb, or “just don’t care enough” you are willfully ignoring an overwhelming amount of influencing factors including but not limited to socioeconomic influences, genetic influences, environmental influences, individual psychological factors, and a laundry list of other things that make the playing field remarkably skewed, so to speak.
Sure, but I am someone who has been obese and who has been tempted to make excuses to myself at times or who just did not care enough to change at times (and doesn't think that makes me a terrible person, since I cared about other things that we more important to me at the time, and I also don't think someone who is fat must mind deeply about being fat -- it's hard for people who have always cared about being in shape to realize, maybe, but not everyone does or find it painful). For me, being able to see that certain things are things I am making choices about, whether or not they are hard to change, in my power to change at the moment, etc., is actually empowering to me. Saying "I am fat because it is harder for me than others" would not be helpful.
I think some people may be (carelessly or simply because it's hard) trying to say this, and yet getting taken as being negative toward those who are still working on it.Obesity is the result of fat accumulation caused by chronic overconsumption of calories.
It is not however, exclusively a function of how bad you want it, or how intelligent you are.
Agreed -- when I was fat I wasn't dumb at all or ignorant about how I got fat. Nor was I lazy (I worked really really hard at lots of things, things I considered more important than my weight and still do, actually).
It was true to say that I didn't want it bad enough to make it a priority, though. For example, when I quit drinking I let myself eat in a much more unrestricted way than I had before, because I was scared that being too strict would mess with the shaky hold I had on my sobriety at the time. I didn't want staying thin "enough" in the sense that I wouldn't prioritize it over other things, yeah. I don't see that as bad or stupid or about laziness.
Ultimately, I think with weight loss people have to hit a point where they really care enough to do what they need to do or not. How much this is depends -- for some it's nothing, as it's just living as they always have and find natural and like and which is consistent with their habits (and ideally we all get there). But saying "if you don't feel like you can do it" (as some people indicate when they say can't can't can't about everything suggested) isn't, IMO, saying you are lazy. It's saying maybe you aren't ready to make any changes yet, and that's okay, it's a choice. But if you want, it doesn't have to be as hard as you may think and here are some ideas.
I don't disagree with anything you just said.
Unfortunately I think several people are reading things that are not written in the post or ignoring things that are expressly stated.3 -
Unfortunately I think several people are reading things that are not written in the post or ignoring things that are expressly stated.
I think people are letting their own insecurities get in the way of a solid discussion. I was most definitely lazy when I became obese. I was up to 470 lbs at one point. I knew what I was doing. I just didn't care. I had access to a gym, pool, and better food. I chose not to take part. The world is not made up of black and white. It's a muddled mess of a rainbow. It's hard to see things from another person's perspective if you've never lived the life they have. Empathy is a difficult skill to master for many and you can see that on full display here.
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I'm a former Margaret. I was unemployed and very obese. I lost weight by educating myself with nutrtion books and exercise dvds from the llibrary for free, and walked everywhere. I shopped at Aldis, got the healthiest things I could find at food pantries, and budgeted and used coupons and sales for quality food. I still bought fruit and veggies, despite a family members objections who felt they were a waste of money. I also stretched the food through meticulous portion control. When I got work, then I added on a modest gym and weight loss programs, and continued adjusting these things according to budget. The resources are out there if people look. Community centers, parks departments, libraries, health centers, and the local health department have a wealth of health and fitness information either low cost or free.
I understand the food desert situation because I live in one. But for me the travel to get affordable food is worth it. Btw, imho, there needs to be more focus on affordable nutrition and the value of healthy foods instead of cheap and easy. I hate seeing people choosing the 2 for a dollar Little Debbie cake over 5 for a dollar bananas. That makes no sense to me.6 -
Unfortunately I think several people are reading things that are not written in the post or ignoring things that are expressly stated.
I think people are letting their own insecurities get in the way of a solid discussion. I was most definitely lazy when I became obese. I was up to 470 lbs at one point. I knew what I was doing. I just didn't care. I had access to a gym, pool, and better food. I chose not to take part. The world is not made up of black and white. It's a muddled mess of a rainbow. It's hard to see things from another person's perspective if you've never lived the life they have. Empathy is a difficult skill to master for many and you can see that on full display here.
Agreed1 -
Unfortunately I think several people are reading things that are not written in the post or ignoring things that are expressly stated.
I think people are letting their own insecurities get in the way of a solid discussion. I was most definitely lazy when I became obese. I was up to 470 lbs at one point. I knew what I was doing. I just didn't care. I had access to a gym, pool, and better food. I chose not to take part. The world is not made up of black and white. It's a muddled mess of a rainbow. It's hard to see things from another person's perspective if you've never lived the life they have. Empathy is a difficult skill to master for many and you can see that on full display here.
Great reply, and empathy is something that is sorely lacking in the fitness community especially from some fitness professionals and it was one of the reasons for this post.
And I have said this multiple times and I even mentioned in the thread but people seemed to conveniently ignore it, (not you) there absolutely are people who make excuses, and don't care enough and do not accept personal responsibility.
But it's unfair to assume that this is the case for everybody.
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