Obesity. Are you just lazy and dumb?
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »You make a lot of good points.
I hope you're not saying it's impossible for Margarets to lose weight. It's not. Apologies if you think you'd made that obvious.
I'm sure as a PT you take a different approach to Margaret as to Chad.
Likewise as MFP Community posters, we need to reply to each poster differently depending on the individual's circumstances. A lot of tips and tricks are more appropriate for Margaret than they are for Chad and vice versa.
I feel I must also point out that in my innumerable hours spent in this forum, I can't recall an outright instance of fat-shaming.
I'm not at all saying it's impossible for Margaret or anyone else to succeed.
I'm also not removing the importance of personal responsibility.
Fat shaming doesn't happen often at all on these forums which is quite fortunate and if it did I trust the moderators would handle it as they're pretty good overall here.
Your sides may be steel but you are a big softy man. You care and that shows and that is going to work for a lot of people, but not for everyone. For some its just going to help reinforce their belief that outside forces are to blame for their condition rather than taking steps towards taking ownership and responsibility. I also care, but I don't think I could call myself a softy...I'm rather blunt and I will call someone out for not taking responsibility for their actions. For some that might shut them down and make them feel like withdrawing, for others it may be a wake up call. Is that "fat shaming" if I do so to an obese person who is putting a lot of energy into blaming external factors for their condition but not a lot into doing anything to change that condition? I guess that judgement rests in others but I'd like to think not. I think fat shaming is done by people who want to feel better about themselves not those who want to help. Different people are going to take different approaches to helping and different people are going to respond to different approaches. Your a softy, I'm not. Oh and as a side-note I don't mean "softy" as an insult, please don't read it that way.
Dammit, where were people like you when I was a 13 year old fatty? No, I had to wait until I was 26, and have someone on the internet tell me how disgusting I was before I got the point.
Seriously, the enabling and reaffirmation that I saw when I was a kid, in retrospect, should probably be treated as abuse. Some call it being nice, polite, PC, or what the *kitten* ever. I call it destructive coddling *kitten*, flat out.
Where was I when you were a 13 year old fatty? I was in college, discovering alcohol and being a 19 year old fatty.4 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »You make a lot of good points.
I hope you're not saying it's impossible for Margarets to lose weight. It's not. Apologies if you think you'd made that obvious.
I'm sure as a PT you take a different approach to Margaret as to Chad.
Likewise as MFP Community posters, we need to reply to each poster differently depending on the individual's circumstances. A lot of tips and tricks are more appropriate for Margaret than they are for Chad and vice versa.
I feel I must also point out that in my innumerable hours spent in this forum, I can't recall an outright instance of fat-shaming.
I'm not at all saying it's impossible for Margaret or anyone else to succeed.
I'm also not removing the importance of personal responsibility.
Fat shaming doesn't happen often at all on these forums which is quite fortunate and if it did I trust the moderators would handle it as they're pretty good overall here.
Your sides may be steel but you are a big softy man. You care and that shows and that is going to work for a lot of people, but not for everyone. For some its just going to help reinforce their belief that outside forces are to blame for their condition rather than taking steps towards taking ownership and responsibility. I also care, but I don't think I could call myself a softy...I'm rather blunt and I will call someone out for not taking responsibility for their actions. For some that might shut them down and make them feel like withdrawing, for others it may be a wake up call. Is that "fat shaming" if I do so to an obese person who is putting a lot of energy into blaming external factors for their condition but not a lot into doing anything to change that condition? I guess that judgement rests in others but I'd like to think not. I think fat shaming is done by people who want to feel better about themselves not those who want to help. Different people are going to take different approaches to helping and different people are going to respond to different approaches. Your a softy, I'm not. Oh and as a side-note I don't mean "softy" as an insult, please don't read it that way.
Dammit, where were people like you when I was a 13 year old fatty? No, I had to wait until I was 26, and have someone on the internet tell me how disgusting I was before I got the point.
Seriously, the enabling and reaffirmation that I saw when I was a kid, in retrospect, should probably be treated as abuse. Some call it being nice, polite, PC, or what the *kitten* ever. I call it destructive coddling *kitten*, flat out.
Where was I when you were a 13 year old fatty? I was in college, discovering alcohol and being a 19 year old fatty.
lol0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
A legitimate effort, incorporating caloric restriction and eventually balance? Yes.
The half-assed crap that most people try for years before accepting reality? Nope.
Got it, I'll just tell my clients to try harder.
So you don't believe in cico? If someone can't lose weight at all with calorie restriction and exercise than I would question if they are being dishonest about their intake.
Pretty much this. Steel, you know as well as I do, that most of those who don't lose weight are lying to you out of one side of their mouth while sneakily shoving Ben and Jerry's into the other.
Logging inaccuracies are not necessarily a function of honesty and it is critically important to not assume that it is a matter of honesty as you are doing right now.
Agreed. However, there's logging inaccuracies, and then there's "this person gained a pound in the last week when their planned deficit is strong enough to cause a loss of two". So long as we recognize the difference, there's no disagreement.
The difference is that your first assumption is that it is someone lying or not trying hard enough and my first assumption is that the person needs additional assistance.
I read your comment wrong then. I understood it as you though some people just can't lose weight at all no matter what they do
I appreciate you admitting this, and I feel that many people are not reading what I actually wrote .
Who are you referring to?
It's a general feeling that I have when I read replies talking about excuses and personal responsibility despite me explicitly stating that each of these individuals will succeed based on a series of choices they make.
Fair enough and maybe my inferences are the result of a cross cultural issue
It's rather a given that any individual succeeds based on their choices, but the tenor of your OP that it's not their fault when and if they fail and it plays into victim mentality which is IMHO a less than useful concept at the coal face
And this is an example of not reading what I wrote.
I'm not making any statements about blame, you are doing that.
You absolutely did not directly state it in any way, but the implication is there, all the way until you make your closing statement regarding choices.
What's no offense meant by this, given your viewpoints on obesity expressed here I'm not surprised that you have made this about blame despite it not being there.
What can I say? The harshest critics of excuses are usually those who learned to stop making them. It's the reason I refuse to have children. I'd just be angry all of the time, watching someone make the same mistakes that I did all over again.
Like I said, I appreciate your honesty. But I think you're reading things that aren't there.
I already admitted that I let myself be one of those internet "read half and get annoyed" monkeys, and then went back and read the whole thing. I agree that your piece is intended to inspire a "judge not" moreso than a "feel bad for my plight and give me snuggles". My follow-ups that may have appeared otherwise were intended to state that others were likely to do the same (on both sides), because your real point was closer to the end. Honestly, I think you'd probably be catching a bit less misinterpretation if you'd have led off with Chad, instead of Marg.2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
I believe if anyone prioritizes their health, puts in the time to calorically restrict and exercise then they can lose weight, gain strength and become a healthier version of themselves yes. I don't believe in the special snowflake who can accurately calorie restrict and exercise hard and still not gain strength or lose weight. This isn't a negative viewpoint, its an optimistic one.
What I DON'T do is think that someone who has prioritized something other than their health is automatically wrong. Some people have other things in their life they may deem more important and that is their call.4 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
I believe if anyone prioritizes their health, puts in the time to calorically restrict and exercise then they can lose weight, gain strength and become a healthier version of themselves yes. I don't believe in the special snowflake who can accurately calorie restrict and exercise hard and still not gain strength or lose weight. This isn't a negative viewpoint, its an optimistic one.
What I DON'T do is think that someone who has prioritized something other than their health is automatically wrong. Some people have other things in their life they may deem more important and that is their call.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you are ALSO inherently assuming the ability to adhere to the caloric restriction?0 -
I think you are a really good guy steel and your smart and your effective and you know your stuff, your clients are lucky to have you. I think your approach is a good one and one that will appeal to a lot of people. I would just disagree with the idea (not even necessarily stated by you) that there is one correct approach and then a bunch of wrong approaches. That you have to stroke people's egos and tell them they are doing great to reach them or you are somehow doing it wrong. Telling someone if they want to accomplish X they need to take responsibility for that and prioritize it by deprioritizing other things in their life is a totally legitimate way to reach some people. Sometimes taking the hardline works.2
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First, I wanted to say thank you for the excellent post.
Much of what you say reminds me of my experience with my older daughter. She is on the autism spectrum, albeit high functioning. Many people don't even realize it unless they spend a lot of time around her, which leads to a bunch of false beliefs about her and her character, as well as our parenting skills, which is always amusing.
She doesn't get a choice with autism, but she does get choices as to what she can do to deal with it. We are fortunate to have access to resources that can help, but she still struggles. She's not stupid. She's not lazy. She works harder than most neurotypical kids in her class, because even after a full day of school she then heads into hours of therapy just to get where they are. She is just as capable as every other child in that class and is just as able to be successful at anything she tries. But the road for her to get there is usually a lot longer and a lot more difficult. Once she has it down, she's good to go, but figuring out how to help her get there is a challenge for her, and us, and her therapists.
I often think about her when I am reading someone's posts here on the forums. I can't get mad at my daughter when she struggles, and I don't blame her when she feels like something is overwhelming or it's all just too much. I just focus on what can be accomplished, even it's something as minuscule as finally getting a pencil from a drawer after 2 hours of tantrums. So I try not to dismiss the struggles of others, even if the solution seems really easy to me, and just remember that results are not always an indicator of the level of effort.11 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »I think you are a really good guy steel and your smart and your effective and you know your stuff, your clients are lucky to have you. I think your approach is a good one and one that will appeal to a lot of people. I would just disagree with the idea (not even necessarily stated by you) that there is one correct approach and then a bunch of wrong approaches. Telling someone if they want to accomplish X they need to take responsibility for that and prioritize it by deprioritizing other things in their life is a totally legitimate way to reach some people. Sometimes taking the hardline works.
I don't disagree with anything here.0 -
First, I wanted to say thank you for the excellent post.
Much of what you say reminds me of my experience with my older daughter. She is on the autism spectrum, albeit high functioning. Many people don't even realize it unless they spend a lot of time around her, which leads to a bunch of false beliefs about her and her character, as well as our parenting skills, which is always amusing.
She doesn't get a choice with autism, but she does get choices as to what she can do to deal with it. We are fortunate to have access to resources that can help, but she still struggles. She's not stupid. She's not lazy. She works harder than most neurotypical kids in her class, because even after a full day of school she then heads into hours of therapy just to get where they are. She is just as capable as every other child in that class and is just as able to be successful at anything she tries. But the road for her to get there is usually a lot longer and a lot more difficult. Once she has it down, she's good to go, but figuring out how to help her get there is a challenge for her, and us, and her therapists.
I often think about her when I am reading someone's posts here on the forums. I can't get mad at my daughter when she struggles, and I don't blame her when she feels like something is overwhelming or it's all just too much. I just focus on what can be accomplished, even it's something as minuscule as finally getting a pencil from a drawer after 2 hours of tantrums. So I try not to dismiss the struggles of others, even if the solution seems really easy to me, and just remember that results are not always an indicator of the level of effort.
Thank you for this reply.
For the record, my 5 year old son is on the autism spectrum and I had considered bringing autism into the original post since it's an emotional and close topic to me but I chose to leave it out.
Suffice it to say that I really appreciate your reply here and I think I can also appreciate what you and your daughter go through at least to some extent.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »You make a lot of good points.
I hope you're not saying it's impossible for Margarets to lose weight. It's not. Apologies if you think you'd made that obvious.
I'm sure as a PT you take a different approach to Margaret as to Chad.
Likewise as MFP Community posters, we need to reply to each poster differently depending on the individual's circumstances. A lot of tips and tricks are more appropriate for Margaret than they are for Chad and vice versa.
I feel I must also point out that in my innumerable hours spent in this forum, I can't recall an outright instance of fat-shaming.
I'm not at all saying it's impossible for Margaret or anyone else to succeed.
I'm also not removing the importance of personal responsibility.
Fat shaming doesn't happen often at all on these forums which is quite fortunate and if it did I trust the moderators would handle it as they're pretty good overall here.
Your sides may be steel but you are a big softy man. You care and that shows and that is going to work for a lot of people, but not for everyone. For some its just going to help reinforce their belief that outside forces are to blame for their condition rather than taking steps towards taking ownership and responsibility. I also care, but I don't think I could call myself a softy...I'm rather blunt and I will call someone out for not taking responsibility for their actions. For some that might shut them down and make them feel like withdrawing, for others it may be a wake up call. Is that "fat shaming" if I do so to an obese person who is putting a lot of energy into blaming external factors for their condition but not a lot into doing anything to change that condition? I guess that judgement rests in others but I'd like to think not. I think fat shaming is done by people who want to feel better about themselves not those who want to help. Different people are going to take different approaches to helping and different people are going to respond to different approaches. Your a softy, I'm not. Oh and as a side-note I don't mean "softy" as an insult, please don't read it that way.
Dammit, where were people like you when I was a 13 year old fatty? No, I had to wait until I was 26, and have someone on the internet tell me how disgusting I was before I got the point.
Seriously, the enabling and reaffirmation that I saw when I was a kid, in retrospect, should probably be treated as abuse. Some call it being nice, polite, PC, or what the *kitten* ever. I call it destructive coddling *kitten*, flat out.
Where was I when you were a 13 year old fatty? I was in college, discovering alcohol and being a 19 year old fatty.
lol
Hey...we all have our daemons, that is why we are here right? Mine is a complete and utter inability to multitask. I pick something to prioritize and I kill it while I do so. Then I pick something else. My issue has never been weight loss or strength gains its been maintenance.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »You make a lot of good points.
I hope you're not saying it's impossible for Margarets to lose weight. It's not. Apologies if you think you'd made that obvious.
I'm sure as a PT you take a different approach to Margaret as to Chad.
Likewise as MFP Community posters, we need to reply to each poster differently depending on the individual's circumstances. A lot of tips and tricks are more appropriate for Margaret than they are for Chad and vice versa.
I feel I must also point out that in my innumerable hours spent in this forum, I can't recall an outright instance of fat-shaming.
I'm not at all saying it's impossible for Margaret or anyone else to succeed.
I'm also not removing the importance of personal responsibility.
Fat shaming doesn't happen often at all on these forums which is quite fortunate and if it did I trust the moderators would handle it as they're pretty good overall here.
Your sides may be steel but you are a big softy man. You care and that shows and that is going to work for a lot of people, but not for everyone. For some its just going to help reinforce their belief that outside forces are to blame for their condition rather than taking steps towards taking ownership and responsibility. I also care, but I don't think I could call myself a softy...I'm rather blunt and I will call someone out for not taking responsibility for their actions. For some that might shut them down and make them feel like withdrawing, for others it may be a wake up call. Is that "fat shaming" if I do so to an obese person who is putting a lot of energy into blaming external factors for their condition but not a lot into doing anything to change that condition? I guess that judgement rests in others but I'd like to think not. I think fat shaming is done by people who want to feel better about themselves not those who want to help. Different people are going to take different approaches to helping and different people are going to respond to different approaches. Your a softy, I'm not. Oh and as a side-note I don't mean "softy" as an insult, please don't read it that way.
Dammit, where were people like you when I was a 13 year old fatty? No, I had to wait until I was 26, and have someone on the internet tell me how disgusting I was before I got the point.
Seriously, the enabling and reaffirmation that I saw when I was a kid, in retrospect, should probably be treated as abuse. Some call it being nice, polite, PC, or what the *kitten* ever. I call it destructive coddling *kitten*, flat out.
Where was I when you were a 13 year old fatty? I was in college, discovering alcohol and being a 19 year old fatty.
lol
Hey...we all have our daemons, that is why we are here right? Mine is a complete and utter inability to multitask. I pick something to prioritize and I kill it while I do so. Then I pick something else. My issue has never been weight loss or strength gains its been maintenance.
Jesus Christ...it's like I'm reading my own posts.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
I believe if anyone prioritizes their health, puts in the time to calorically restrict and exercise then they can lose weight, gain strength and become a healthier version of themselves yes. I don't believe in the special snowflake who can accurately calorie restrict and exercise hard and still not gain strength or lose weight. This isn't a negative viewpoint, its an optimistic one.
What I DON'T do is think that someone who has prioritized something other than their health is automatically wrong. Some people have other things in their life they may deem more important and that is their call.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you are ALSO inherently assuming the ability to adhere to the caloric restriction?
If the person isn't flawed then yes, if they are flawed then they need to address that. Like I said once you say someone IS prioritizing their health and isn't being successful then they are innefectual for some reason and at that point one kind of does have to be critical of them. Being critical isn't the same thing as being mean. At somepoint you need to say to them, hey...you are *kitten* something up...lets look into it and try to figure out what it is.2 -
My apologies if this has been covered already (I read most of the thread, but not terribly carefully)...I think one of the most important takeaways is that you need to consider return on investment when you're talking about introducing health-related changes, and that individual circumstances impact the size of the investment and also the expected return.
Would both Margaret and Chad benefit from incorporating fresh vegetables from a farmer's market? Likely yes. But the investment required to make that change is different for each of them. For Margaret, we're talking about a larger financial and time investment (transportation costs, time away from her kids or childcare, or just the hassle of herding children around a busy place), whereas those costs are probably nominal for Chad. Margaret just isn't going to see the same net positive ROI from implementing that change, so it probably shouldn't be the first thing she implements. For her, she's likely going to see a more significant positive impact from doing things like looking for lower-sodium processed foods, or switching from canned veg to frozen. Similarly with exercise...joining a gym could be a huge investment in money and time for Margaret, whereas taking her kids for a walk is lower-impact and also has some additional positive effects.
Without the additional context surrounding someone's life, there's no way to know which lifestyle changes are going to be too "expensive" for the person to stick with, and there's a danger of creating the impression that health is outside of some people's "budgets."8 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »I think you are a really good guy steel and your smart and your effective and you know your stuff, your clients are lucky to have you. I think your approach is a good one and one that will appeal to a lot of people. I would just disagree with the idea (not even necessarily stated by you) that there is one correct approach and then a bunch of wrong approaches. That you have to stroke people's egos and tell them they are doing great to reach them or you are somehow doing it wrong. Telling someone if they want to accomplish X they need to take responsibility for that and prioritize it by deprioritizing other things in their life is a totally legitimate way to reach some people. Sometimes taking the hardline works.
Agree1 -
You know what a lot of people are missing? The original post was a critique of moral condemnation levied upon overweight individuals.
By getting sidetracked into a discussion of the logistics of weight loss and maintenance, people are accepting assigning negative character and value traits to overweight people based solely on their weight.
I find that pretty appalling, personally.14 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
I believe if anyone prioritizes their health, puts in the time to calorically restrict and exercise then they can lose weight, gain strength and become a healthier version of themselves yes. I don't believe in the special snowflake who can accurately calorie restrict and exercise hard and still not gain strength or lose weight. This isn't a negative viewpoint, its an optimistic one.
What I DON'T do is think that someone who has prioritized something other than their health is automatically wrong. Some people have other things in their life they may deem more important and that is their call.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you are ALSO inherently assuming the ability to adhere to the caloric restriction?
If the person isn't flawed then yes, if they are flawed then they need to address that. Like I said once you say someone IS prioritizing their health and isn't being successful then they are innefectual for some reason and at that point one kind of does have to be critical of them. Being critical isn't the same thing as being mean. At somepoint you need to say to them, hey...you are *kitten* something up...lets look into it and try to figure out what it is.
I see it quite a bit differently.
If someone is struggling with diet adherence, you need to address a variety of factors many of which have nothing to do with character flaws.
It has to do with dietary methodology, food environment, stress management, and of course obvious things like food selection habits and making adjustments or manipulations to calorie and macronutrient intake.
Now I will say that there probably are many cases where it's some sort of emotional issue or character defect but I tend to think that it's about matching a sustainable methodology to the individual.
And I know that some people will think that I am just being overly sensitive and that's fine especially with what I'm about to say here:
You seem to be assuming that it is a character flaw if someone cannot adhere, and I think that's another oversimplification that asserts that the person must just be incompetent.
2 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
I believe if anyone prioritizes their health, puts in the time to calorically restrict and exercise then they can lose weight, gain strength and become a healthier version of themselves yes. I don't believe in the special snowflake who can accurately calorie restrict and exercise hard and still not gain strength or lose weight. This isn't a negative viewpoint, its an optimistic one.
What I DON'T do is think that someone who has prioritized something other than their health is automatically wrong. Some people have other things in their life they may deem more important and that is their call.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you are ALSO inherently assuming the ability to adhere to the caloric restriction?
If the person isn't flawed then yes, if they are flawed then they need to address that. Like I said once you say someone IS prioritizing their health and isn't being successful then they are innefectual for some reason and at that point one kind of does have to be critical of them. Being critical isn't the same thing as being mean. At somepoint you need to say to them, hey...you are *kitten* something up...lets look into it and try to figure out what it is.
I see it quite a bit differently.
If someone is struggling with diet adherence, you need to address a variety of factors many of which have nothing to do with character flaws.
It has to do with dietary methodology, food environment, stress management, and of course obvious things like food selection habits and making adjustments or manipulations to calorie and macronutrient intake.
Now I will say that there probably are many cases where it's some sort of emotional issue or character defect but I tend to think that it's about matching a sustainable methodology to the individual.
And I know that some people will think that I am just being overly sensitive and that's fine especially with what I'm about to say here:
You seem to be assuming that it is a character flaw if someone cannot adhere.
I would say that it only dips into character flaw territory if the prescribed protocol is an absurdly easy one, and that can't even be managed. You can only make things but so easy before there would never be any progress at all, and you're just wasting both parties time.0 -
You know what a lot of people are missing? The original post was a critique of moral condemnation levied upon overweight individuals.
By getting sidetracked into a discussion of the logistics of weight loss and maintenance, people are accepting assigning negative character and value traits to overweight people based solely on their weight.
I find that pretty appalling, personally.
Who is doing that? I'm not seeing that at all from my perspective at least. With my own posts saying that people who are habitually overweight aren't prioritizing their health is not a moral condemnation based on negative character traits at all. Its just saying they've decided to allocate their time elsewhere for whatever reason.2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wickglamgirl wrote: »Simply Amazing Post. My old trainer used to say to me if "fat women" cared as much about their bodies as they do about their false nails and manicures, they wouldn't be fat any longer. I informed him that having their nails done - whether you like fake nails or not - was something that they could control. And it made them feel good.
This post really was fabulous - thank-you so much! - Big Hug from Toronto!
They can also control their weight, if they bothered to try. Your point made no sense.
so if they try, they will succeed?
Do you truly believe this?
I believe if anyone prioritizes their health, puts in the time to calorically restrict and exercise then they can lose weight, gain strength and become a healthier version of themselves yes. I don't believe in the special snowflake who can accurately calorie restrict and exercise hard and still not gain strength or lose weight. This isn't a negative viewpoint, its an optimistic one.
What I DON'T do is think that someone who has prioritized something other than their health is automatically wrong. Some people have other things in their life they may deem more important and that is their call.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you are ALSO inherently assuming the ability to adhere to the caloric restriction?
If the person isn't flawed then yes, if they are flawed then they need to address that. Like I said once you say someone IS prioritizing their health and isn't being successful then they are innefectual for some reason and at that point one kind of does have to be critical of them. Being critical isn't the same thing as being mean. At somepoint you need to say to them, hey...you are *kitten* something up...lets look into it and try to figure out what it is.
I see it quite a bit differently.
If someone is struggling with diet adherence, you need to address a variety of factors many of which have nothing to do with character flaws.
It has to do with dietary methodology, food environment, stress management, and of course obvious things like food selection habits and making adjustments or manipulations to calorie and macronutrient intake.
Now I will say that there probably are many cases where it's some sort of emotional issue or character defect but I tend to think that it's about matching a sustainable methodology to the individual.
And I know that some people will think that I am just being overly sensitive and that's fine especially with what I'm about to say here:
You seem to be assuming that it is a character flaw if someone cannot adhere.
I would say that it only dips into character flaw territory if the prescribed protocol is an absurdly easy one, and that can't even be managed. You can only make things but so easy before there would never be any progress at all, and you're just wasting both parties time.
For the overwhelming majority of people, weight loss and maintaining that loss is quite challenging.
Weight control registry data confirms this.
And so I don't think you can come up with any diets that are absurdly easy to stick to for the majority of people.0 -
So I'm just getting caught up on this thread. Holy crap.
I may just be a simple guy but when I read the OP, are you just saying it's harder for some people? That doesn't make Margaret lazy. She just has to work harder than Chad at other things? Her hard is a different hard than Chads even though she may be putting in more effort than Chad in "life".
Is that a correct interpretation?5
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