Obesity. Are you just lazy and dumb?
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I really liked the post by the OP and is 100% right. Think this was also in reaction to statements yesterday that 'we shouldn't listen to obese people when it comes to losing weight'. There can be a number of factors that count against any one person trying to lose weight.
Great post mate
I think you misinterpreted what was said in the other thread.2 -
All just reasons and excuses for both of their physical conditions it's easy to play the blame Game and refer to our parents poor diet but at the end of the day calories in calories out and will power are the answers is very easy to use an excuse to cover your lack of willpower2
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Yes, everyone knows at the end of the day CICO - and OP certainly wasnt saying otherwise.
am bit lost as to why people think that over rides OP's point.
and even more lost as to the posters who have moved into sanctimonious " Well she just shouldnt have had kids then" logic.7 -
shredcamps wrote: »All just reasons and excuses for both of their physical conditions it's easy to play the blame Game and refer to our parents poor diet but at the end of the day calories in calories out and will power are the answers is very easy to use an excuse to cover your lack of willpowertrigden1991 wrote: »I really liked the post by the OP and is 100% right. Think this was also in reaction to statements yesterday that 'we shouldn't listen to obese people when it comes to losing weight'. There can be a number of factors that count against any one person trying to lose weight.
Great post mate
I think you misinterpreted what was said in the other thread.
Just for some clarification so I'm not further misunderstood -- the conversation in the other thread motivated me to write this however this isn't some sort of "rebuttal" to the other thread or anything of that sort. If it were, I'd have specifically addressed things in the other thread and replied there with this.
I'm satisfied with the discussion in that thread and feel like it was addressed adequately at least from my perspective.
This also isn't directed to anyone in particular although my hopes are that it causes people to think about the multifactorial nature of obesity and how they easily form knee jerk opinions about others without knowing any context.1 -
shredcamps wrote: »All just reasons and excuses for both of their physical conditions it's easy to play the blame Game and refer to our parents poor diet but at the end of the day calories in calories out and will power are the answers is very easy to use an excuse to cover your lack of willpower
I'm glad you have all the answers and I'd love to subscribe to your newsletter.
Obesity solved.
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trigden1991 wrote: »
I appreciate it is harder for some than others. I get that society stacks the decks. But there's also a line of personal responsibility.
I couldn't agree more with this line. Life is not fair or equal but if you are not happy with your situation then you and you alone can make the decision to make a change.
Margaret may have all the odds stacked against her but CICO still applies.
I don't disagree with this.0 -
When a car driver rearranged my knee (and the front of his car) I transformed from fit, strong, slim, intelligent, determined and hard working into a fat, stupid, lazy, slob with no will-power.
Or was it that I was depressed and disabled?
Clearly I was still the same essential me but just a fatter version, with a wonky knee.
The disabled part I managed to overcome (work round really) but the fat part took a bit longer.
I was ferociously determined to overcome the physical issues but for some unknown reason I didn't commit the same determination to cutting my weight.
I certainly did make excuses for far too long. It wasn't my fault - it was the car driver, great excuse except he clearly didn't force feed me daily.
That moment when you grasp personal responsibility for how much you stuff in your cake-hole comes to different people, in different circumstances in very different timescales. For some, sadly, that moment never comes at all.
Some will need a helping hand, some may benefit from a kick up the *kitten*, some just have to work it out for themselves. I happened to be in the last category.
Great post SideSteel.
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I would just like to come onboard and say that the obese friends that I've got are all very intelligent. I think that contributes to the problem. They know very well about food, and how dieting should work, but love to discuss it, not put it into practice. So, they continue to go round and round until they have a health scare--and then it's too late.1
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shredcamps wrote: »All just reasons and excuses for both of their physical conditions it's easy to play the blame Game and refer to our parents poor diet but at the end of the day calories in calories out and will power are the answers is very easy to use an excuse to cover your lack of willpowertrigden1991 wrote: »I really liked the post by the OP and is 100% right. Think this was also in reaction to statements yesterday that 'we shouldn't listen to obese people when it comes to losing weight'. There can be a number of factors that count against any one person trying to lose weight.
Great post mate
I think you misinterpreted what was said in the other thread.
Just for some clarification so I'm not further misunderstood -- the conversation in the other thread motivated me to write this however this isn't some sort of "rebuttal" to the other thread or anything of that sort. If it were, I'd have specifically addressed things in the other thread and replied there with this.
I'm satisfied with the discussion in that thread and feel like it was addressed adequately at least from my perspective.
This also isn't directed to anyone in particular although my hopes are that it causes people to think about the multifactorial nature of obesity and how they easily form knee jerk opinions about others without knowing any context.
Oh, I thought you had modelled your "Chad" on me. Now I'm disappointed.1 -
Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is the underlying driver of many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
My non-scientific observation is affluent people (e.g. those who can afford >$100k annually to send their kids to private school before college) are pretty fit. Less affluent people are overweight or obese at a much higher rate. To be clear, I am not saying being smart or fit makes you rich (or the converse) but that there are tons of opportunities for the rich and obstacles for the poor. Also, the obesity -food insecurity connection has been well studied and documented for over a decade in many countries.
2) As a completely opposite example, I have an obese close family member who got there the good old fashioned way--eating waaaay too much despite great genetics (no family history of obesity) and economic advantage. It's painful to see the unending health consequences and sad that so little effort was made to avert them.
My bottom line is it's hard enough to understand my own situation--how I got to be the way I am. I can't possibly get inside someone else's life experience to judge.10 -
Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is really the underlying driver of so many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
My non-scientific observation is affluent people (e.g. those who can afford >$100k annually to send their kids to private school before college) are pretty fit. Less affluent people are overweight or obese at a much higher rate. To be clear, I am not saying being smart or fit makes you rich (or the converse) but that there are tons of opportunities for the rich and obstacles for the poor. Also, the obesity -food insecurity connection has been well studied and documented for over a decade in many countries.
2) As a completely opposite example, I have an obese close family member who got there the good old fashioned way--eating waaaay too much despite great genetics (no family history of obesity) and economic advantage. It's painful to see the unending health consequences and sad that so little effort was made to avert them.
My bottom line is it's hard enough to understand my own situation--how I got to be the way I am. I can't possibly get inside someone else's life experience to judge.
Good thoughts.
I think the poverty thing is complicated and I'd be interested to see data regarding weight loss statistics and it's correlation to poverty/income rather than statistics correlating the presence of obesity with poverty.
Because as correctly pointed out earlier in this thread, wealthier areas can show a positive correlation with obesity and that likely has to do with food availability, but as you said I would tend to think that wealth would make weight loss a bit easier for reasons you've stated.0 -
Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is really the underlying driver of so many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
My non-scientific observation is affluent people (e.g. those who can afford >$100k annually to send their kids to private school before college) are pretty fit. Less affluent people are overweight or obese at a much higher rate. To be clear, I am not saying being smart or fit makes you rich (or the converse) but that there are tons of opportunities for the rich and obstacles for the poor. Also, the obesity -food insecurity connection has been well studied and documented for over a decade in many countries.
2) As a completely opposite example, I have an obese close family member who got there the good old fashioned way--eating waaaay too much despite great genetics (no family history of obesity) and economic advantage. It's painful to see the unending health consequences and sad that so little effort was made to avert them.
My bottom line is it's hard enough to understand my own situation--how I got to be the way I am. I can't possibly get inside someone else's life experience to judge.
Good thoughts.
I think the poverty thing is complicated and I'd be interested to see data regarding weight loss statistics and it's correlation to poverty/income rather than statistics correlating the presence of obesity with poverty.
Because as correctly pointed out earlier in this thread, wealthier areas can show a positive correlation with obesity and that likely has to do with food availability, but as you said I would tend to think that wealth would make weight loss a bit easier for reasons you've stated.
I've read that studies on weight loss (& keeping it off) are sparse because so few are successful. Much more data available on obesity. Thanks again for the discussion. Your insights are always appreciated.0 -
Also, the obesity -food insecurity connection has been well studied and documented for over a decade in many countries.
Hi ahoy, it would be interesting if you could elaborate a little more on the above -is it maybe in countries that are also affluent?
Maybe it would go off topic? i think the OP said this thread is about the US. I think this thread will help me understand some of the underlying issues in the US.
I have wondered why it seems that obesity is perhaps higher among the less affluent in USA, while it seems obesity is a problem for affluent people in other places outside US.
I think like someone said earlier it may require me more time to properly digest this whole discussion.0 -
wrote: »
Also, the obesity -food insecurity connection has been well studied and documented for over a decade in many countries.
Hi ahoy, it would be interesting if you could elaborate a little more on the above -is it maybe in countries that are also affluent?
Maybe it would go off topic? i think the OP said this thread is about the US. I think this thread will help me understand some of the underlying issues in the US.
I have wondered why it seems that obesity is perhaps higher among the less affluent in USA, while it seems obesity is a problem for affluent people in other places outside US.
I think like someone said earlier it may require me more time to properly digest this whole discussion.
Check the study I linked in the original post as it references other pieces of research examining other areas/etc.0 -
Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is the underlying driver of many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
countries.
) .
Wonder no more. It is! There's a huge amount of research on the generational effects of poverty0 -
Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is the underlying driver of many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
countries.
) .
Wonder no more. It is! There's a huge amount of research on the generational effects of poverty
Very true, but poverty involving people being fat is an extremely recent phenomenon, and is a relatively isolated one at that. All logic would point to true poverty being the most effective weightloss plan ever. I've never seen an obese homeless person, that wasn't actually a panhandler.1 -
I have never been dumb. I think few of us live as polarised lives as your clearly extreme examples
I was obese because I ate too much, didn't move enough and didn't commit enough to changing because I was convinced I was fine and because I was too lazy to find a way too change, it wasn't a priority to me
I'm not sure what I think about your post. I'm not one to fat shame but I also can't abide excuses.
I appreciate it is harder for some than others. I get that society stacks the decks. But there's also a line of personal responsibility.
I work with people who have the cards stacked against them in many ways (not in fitness) excuses don't cut it, failing to try is trying to fail.
I really don't know what to think of your post
Pretty much this. I think this is most of us, really.2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Thanks for the post and good discussion. It hits home for a couple reasons.
1) A part of me wonders if poverty is the underlying driver of many negative outcomes -- in health, elementary education, employment prospects, ability to avoid incarceration (don't laugh). I'm not saying poverty is the sole cause, or excuse, but my observation is an incident that would be nothing to a wealthy person becomes a catastrophic spiral for an impoverished person. I've worked with very affluent people, in a really depressed part of my city with kids in gangs, and in my county jail. I've had more than one employee not show up for work because they died in their apartment of an untreated chronic condition -- no access to medical care unless you go to the ER--which believe me, is not free for the uninsured. Nor does the ER treat chronic conditions like cancer or hypertension or any of the biggest killers in the US. I digress.
countries.
) .
Wonder no more. It is! There's a huge amount of research on the generational effects of poverty
Very true, but poverty involving people being fat is an extremely recent phenomenon, and is a relatively isolated one at that. All logic would point to true poverty being the most effective weightloss plan ever. I've never seen an obese homeless person, that wasn't actually a panhandler.
I actually don't disagree with you at all on this point.
However at the same time I think the attached research is quite relevant and just because it's looking at a trend in the past 50 years does not invalidate the data.
I would tend to think that having more financial resource would make a weight-loss program easier And having less would make it harder but at some point when you can't even afford food then obviously weight loss would result.1 -
What about us people who are very poor (I get $730 a month on disability) and chronically ill (with major fatigue on top of it)who don't use poverty and illness as an excuse and maintain a good weight despite having everything against us? I guess it's a miracle I'm not obese4
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singingflutelady wrote: »What about us people who are very poor (I get $730 a month on disability) and chronically ill (with major fatigue on top of it)who don't use poverty and illness as an excuse and maintain a good weight despite having everything against us? I guess it's a miracle I'm not obese
What about it?
I think it's great that you've accomplished what you've accomplished.2
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