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Giving up sugar for good
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Interesting long read by Gary Taubes in The Guardian today about sugar's addictive effects and the futility of trying to "moderate" its consumption. He also makes the interesting observation that people tend to define moderation as "whatever works for them". Anyway, it's all enough to convince me...
OK, if you're going to give up sugar for good ... what exactly do you plan to eat? Name some foods.
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Really makes me want to eat sugar and watch my 600 lb life.8
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Have any of the people here who think we don't naturally like sweet things ever tasted breast milk?
This makes me think of Impractial Jokers and "I made a public access titty cheese commercial." Oh, Sal.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »I've given up sugar (or mostly given it up) not for weight loss purposes but for gout purposes. I've read some scientific articles that say fructose is way bad for gout. I believe it!
gout can be caused by eating certain things not just fructose. my husbands gout flares up if he eats too much pork, an uncle had it and it would flare up if he ate pickled banana peppers. it has to do with uric acid production. if fructose causes it(which it states it can) then you would have to watch fruits and some veggies as well as they are mainly fructose. not to mention certain medical issues,diet,weight,age,etc all are risk factors in gout..if you suffer from gout its best to avoid things that can cause it/flare ups. if you know a certain food causes a flare up you avoid that food.
Gout is caused when uric acid builds up and uric acid crystals precipitate out of the blood and into tissues. The immune system then attacks the crystals and causes a gout flare. People can have the crystals and not have the flare if their immune system isn't attacking the crystals.
Purines in meat produce uric acid when metabolized. Ketones (losing weight can cause gout) and sugars and other things don't produce uric acid but interfere with the kidney's elimination of the uric acid. Who knows what else causes an individuals immune system to go off on the crystals also. Like you said, if you notice something that is causing problems, then that needs to be eliminated. The article I read said that the sugar effect (fructose) is worse than the meat but I have problems with both. Kidney function is hereditary and my dad and brother had to deal with this also. From what I've read the kidneys are supposed to get rid of the majority of the uric acid and the digestive system handles a part of it too (25% I believe I've read). Lots of factors.
I mentioned health issues causing it too,but yeah I know how gout works
I also know its a form of arthritis as well. yeah if your body isnt working like its supposed to it can cause all sorts of issues. 0 -
goldthistime wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I bit the bullet and read the whole article. Taube's articles can be such an eyeroll fest, but he somehow managed to outdo himself on this one.
Seriously? Cigarettes have sugar? Well, oil is used in soap.. so? How is that even relevant?
Once people are exposed, they consume as much sugar as they can easily procure? I have not seen a more rediculous generalization. I go weeks, and in some instances months, without added sugar without even noticing, even after going weeks having it daily. I just randomly lose interest. Is that how addiction works?
People moderate their kids' sugar intake therefore sugar is bad? And? Parents moderate their kids' everything including video games and, in my case as a kid, tomatoes and Greek yogurt.
The tired argument of sugar and the dopamine? Yeah, a hot shower with a nice smelling shower gel does it for me. I should quit showering forever because it might be addictive I guess. You know what else stimulates my pleasure center? Cheese! It turns out I'm not the only one. It's even dubbed as "dairy crack" by the same media that likes slapping the addictive label on sugar, but hating on cheese is not as trendy I guess, and hating on fat (which has been studied extensively and found to stimulate dopamine) has gone out of vogue.
He then ends the article saying that sugar is very likely to be a toxic substance. Yeah, no comment.
It's like he scouted the internet for woo paddlers like the food babe and her elk then distilled all their ideas into one article.
I will agree that the article was disappointing. He unnecessarily introduced some strange reasoning.
But as to parents moderating their children's consumption of sugar, I was thinking that a stronger argument could be made by pointing out that we are supposed to give our children ZERO added sugar from birth to 2 years old. Does anyone disagree with this advice? Would you or did you ignore it with your babies?
My son (just turned two last week) had chocolate at Christmas. His birthday is four days after Christmas; we made chocolate cupcakes (did the same thing last year; the cupcakes from Death By Chocolate, too - none of that Betty Crocker nonsense). Then we had chocolate cake at New Year's (also from Death by Chocolate- 380 calories for half a slice, and no, I don't have a weight in grams on that, I live dangerously when it comes to that cake, and I gained no weight over the holidays). He seems fine. No withdrawal that I can see. Hasn't sold any of my jewelry to buy Godiva. Will do it again next year.17 -
goldthistime wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I bit the bullet and read the whole article. Taube's articles can be such an eyeroll fest, but he somehow managed to outdo himself on this one.
Seriously? Cigarettes have sugar? Well, oil is used in soap.. so? How is that even relevant?
Once people are exposed, they consume as much sugar as they can easily procure? I have not seen a more rediculous generalization. I go weeks, and in some instances months, without added sugar without even noticing, even after going weeks having it daily. I just randomly lose interest. Is that how addiction works?
People moderate their kids' sugar intake therefore sugar is bad? And? Parents moderate their kids' everything including video games and, in my case as a kid, tomatoes and Greek yogurt.
The tired argument of sugar and the dopamine? Yeah, a hot shower with a nice smelling shower gel does it for me. I should quit showering forever because it might be addictive I guess. You know what else stimulates my pleasure center? Cheese! It turns out I'm not the only one. It's even dubbed as "dairy crack" by the same media that likes slapping the addictive label on sugar, but hating on cheese is not as trendy I guess, and hating on fat (which has been studied extensively and found to stimulate dopamine) has gone out of vogue.
He then ends the article saying that sugar is very likely to be a toxic substance. Yeah, no comment.
It's like he scouted the internet for woo paddlers like the food babe and her elk then distilled all their ideas into one article.
I will agree that the article was disappointing. He unnecessarily introduced some strange reasoning.
But as to parents moderating their children's consumption of sugar, I was thinking that a stronger argument could be made by pointing out that we are supposed to give our children ZERO added sugar from birth to 2 years old. Does anyone disagree with this advice? Would you or did you ignore it with your babies?
So ... you didn't give your children any fruit at all until they turned 2?
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ClosetBayesian wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I bit the bullet and read the whole article. Taube's articles can be such an eyeroll fest, but he somehow managed to outdo himself on this one.
Seriously? Cigarettes have sugar? Well, oil is used in soap.. so? How is that even relevant?
Once people are exposed, they consume as much sugar as they can easily procure? I have not seen a more rediculous generalization. I go weeks, and in some instances months, without added sugar without even noticing, even after going weeks having it daily. I just randomly lose interest. Is that how addiction works?
People moderate their kids' sugar intake therefore sugar is bad? And? Parents moderate their kids' everything including video games and, in my case as a kid, tomatoes and Greek yogurt.
The tired argument of sugar and the dopamine? Yeah, a hot shower with a nice smelling shower gel does it for me. I should quit showering forever because it might be addictive I guess. You know what else stimulates my pleasure center? Cheese! It turns out I'm not the only one. It's even dubbed as "dairy crack" by the same media that likes slapping the addictive label on sugar, but hating on cheese is not as trendy I guess, and hating on fat (which has been studied extensively and found to stimulate dopamine) has gone out of vogue.
He then ends the article saying that sugar is very likely to be a toxic substance. Yeah, no comment.
It's like he scouted the internet for woo paddlers like the food babe and her elk then distilled all their ideas into one article.
I will agree that the article was disappointing. He unnecessarily introduced some strange reasoning.
But as to parents moderating their children's consumption of sugar, I was thinking that a stronger argument could be made by pointing out that we are supposed to give our children ZERO added sugar from birth to 2 years old. Does anyone disagree with this advice? Would you or did you ignore it with your babies?
My son (just turned two last week) had chocolate at Christmas. His birthday is four days after Christmas; we made chocolate cupcakes (did the same thing last year; the cupcakes from Death By Chocolate, too - none of that Betty Crocker nonsense). Then we had chocolate cake at New Year's (also from Death by Chocolate- 380 calories for half a slice, and no, I don't have a weight in grams on that, I live dangerously when it comes to that cake, and I gained no weight over the holidays). He seems fine. No withdrawal that I can see. Hasn't sold any of my jewelry to buy Godiva. Will do it again next year.
I've never heard of this zero added sugar before 2 thing? It's tradition here to give a kid their own cake on their first birthday and let them go at it. My kids also all had ice cream before they were a year old etc. They somehow survived the sugar and are now 8, 10 and 12 years old and are in excellent health with healthy bmis, go figure
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goldthistime wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I bit the bullet and read the whole article. Taube's articles can be such an eyeroll fest, but he somehow managed to outdo himself on this one.
Seriously? Cigarettes have sugar? Well, oil is used in soap.. so? How is that even relevant?
Once people are exposed, they consume as much sugar as they can easily procure? I have not seen a more rediculous generalization. I go weeks, and in some instances months, without added sugar without even noticing, even after going weeks having it daily. I just randomly lose interest. Is that how addiction works?
People moderate their kids' sugar intake therefore sugar is bad? And? Parents moderate their kids' everything including video games and, in my case as a kid, tomatoes and Greek yogurt.
The tired argument of sugar and the dopamine? Yeah, a hot shower with a nice smelling shower gel does it for me. I should quit showering forever because it might be addictive I guess. You know what else stimulates my pleasure center? Cheese! It turns out I'm not the only one. It's even dubbed as "dairy crack" by the same media that likes slapping the addictive label on sugar, but hating on cheese is not as trendy I guess, and hating on fat (which has been studied extensively and found to stimulate dopamine) has gone out of vogue.
He then ends the article saying that sugar is very likely to be a toxic substance. Yeah, no comment.
It's like he scouted the internet for woo paddlers like the food babe and her elk then distilled all their ideas into one article.
I will agree that the article was disappointing. He unnecessarily introduced some strange reasoning.
But as to parents moderating their children's consumption of sugar, I was thinking that a stronger argument could be made by pointing out that we are supposed to give our children ZERO added sugar from birth to 2 years old. Does anyone disagree with this advice? Would you or did you ignore it with your babies?
So ... you didn't give your children any fruit at all until they turned 2?
Of course I gave my kids fruit. That doesn't fall into the "added sugar" category.
I had to go look up myself who "they" was again. It's the AHA. When I looked up the articles surrounding this statement I can see that it's not going to help bring the two sides here any closer together. Even I think some of it is on the extreme side (link below). I tried to give my wee ones as little sugar as possible but yes, I also gave my one year old birthday cake.
My point was more that if you believe, as I do, that you should keep sugar intake very low in toddlers, there must be something about sugar that you view as a little dangerous. For me it was that they would "develop a taste for it". That falls well shy of an addiction, of course, but it has some similarities.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/american-heart-association-issues-recommendations-kids-sugar/story?id=415886392 -
Another year another sugar thread...sad part is all the folks trying to give up all sugars will probably never reach their goals as they given power to a substance that is not inherently bad, barring a medical condition..,12
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cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-29126872
It's a behavioral issue...
Back 'atcha! (:-)
http://abc13.com/health/study-sugar-is-as-addictive-as-cocaine/533979/
Seriously though, I think we can agree that the medical profession is divided on the issue and there is no definitive research yet, which again is one of the points Taube's article makes...
As a mental health professional, I can state unequivocally that sugar is currently not a diagnosable addition like alcohol, drugs or gambling. So we don't agree.
There are many problem behaviors associated with the overconsumption of sugars, fats and other foods, just as there may be (for some people) concerning behaviors around the elimination of entire foods or groups of foods. Psychological or medical intervention may be helpful in supporting someone to develop new behaviors, just like with many, many things.
I just had this conversation with my sister over the holiday as she insists my nephew is addicted to playing video games online. I said he may have some behaviors which might be good to modify, but "internet addiction" isn't a thing. Of course, her perceptions of what's normal and healthy and not may be skewed because she's comparing him and what he's doing to what she and I did as kids. All we had was Pong! If we had all this tech, maybe we'd have played for hours on end, too. Though ... I do spend a lot of time on here.
I worked with addicts for many years and believe the "addiction" term is thrown around too much and inaccurately. For me, it seems to make light, albeit inadvertently, of the struggles of those who truly are suffering from addiction.
I keep carbs things and chips out of the house because I tend to overeat them. But my lack of restraint is not tantamount to addiction. And to call it anything other than a personal lack of self control is me kidding myself and not taking responsibility for my behavior.19 -
OP---you are correct and so is Gary Taubes---fully half of people in the US (and some other places) are obese or overweight, they can not control the intake of sugar/carbs and they are having negative health impacts.
Here at MFP, we hear from many who can eat sugar/carbs within CiCo and those ppl refuse to believe that this does not work for sugar/carb addicts.3 -
OP---you are correct and so is Gary Taubes---fully half of people in the US (and some other places) are obese or overweight, they can not control the intake of sugar/carbs and they are having negative health impacts.
Here at MFP, we hear from many who can eat sugar/carbs within CiCo and those ppl refuse to believe that this does not work for sugar/carb addicts.
So the 50% of people who are overweight only eat sugar and carbs? They don't eat fat or protein?15 -
Fairly sure that everyone who has ingested sugar has ended up dying at some point. Clearly there's a connection....First dihydrogen monoxide and now sugar?? 2017 sucks!
/s15 -
OP---you are correct and so is Gary Taubes---fully half of people in the US (and some other places) are obese or overweight, they can not control the intake of sugar/carbs and they are having negative health impacts.
Here at MFP, we hear from many who can eat sugar/carbs within CiCo and those ppl refuse to believe that this does not work for sugar/carb addicts.
how is taubes right? when he has no medical degree/ degree in nutrition or any background in anything related that would give him any clout? obesity and being overweight comes from eating more calories than your body burns. try asking any of the overweight vegetarians and vegans here who eat whole foods and no processed/refined sugar. if thats the case then I can say X causes y and z even though I have nothing to back me up except for maybe my own evidence. oh and see which is harder to quit,alcohol/drugs or sugar.9 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-29126872
It's a behavioral issue...
Back 'atcha! (:-)
http://abc13.com/health/study-sugar-is-as-addictive-as-cocaine/533979/
Seriously though, I think we can agree that the medical profession is divided on the issue and there is no definitive research yet, which again is one of the points Taube's article makes...
As a mental health professional, I can state unequivocally that sugar is currently not a diagnosable addition like alcohol, drugs or gambling. So we don't agree.
There are many problem behaviors associated with the overconsumption of sugars, fats and other foods, just as there may be (for some people) concerning behaviors around the elimination of entire foods or groups of foods. Psychological or medical intervention may be helpful in supporting someone to develop new behaviors, just like with many, many things.
I just had this conversation with my sister over the holiday as she insists my nephew is addicted to playing video games online. I said he may have some behaviors which might be good to modify, but "internet addiction" isn't a thing. Of course, her perceptions of what's normal and healthy and not may be skewed because she's comparing him and what he's doing to what she and I did as kids. All we had was Pong! If we had all this tech, maybe we'd have played for hours on end, too. Though ... I do spend a lot of time on here.
I worked with addicts for many years and believe the "addiction" term is thrown around too much and inaccurately. For me, it seems to make light, albeit inadvertently, of the struggles of those who truly are suffering from addiction.
I keep carbs things and chips out of the house because I tend to overeat them. But my lack of restraint is not tantamount to addiction. And to call it anything other than a personal lack of self control is me kidding myself and not taking responsibility for my behavior.
I have a friend who was a heroin addict for 28 years until he took some personal responsibility, exerted self control, and stopped using.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »@Ty_Floyd I find it frankly amazing how angrily people are reacting to the information you presented quite neutrally.
For me, sugar may not have been as addicting as cocaine, but since reducing it drastically from my diet (going from a ridiculous 125g or something per day!) to a more sensible 24g per day has made a world of difference in my cravings. I think there are other people for whom that is also true. Do I believe that sugar is a drug? Nah. Do I think trying to avoid it as much as possible is very beneficial *for some people* in controlling cravings? Absolutely. I'm glad I discovered people like Taubes because it helped me think hard about what sugar does to my body and make thoughtful choices about how much of it I want to consume. Maybe the article you shared will have the same impact on others. Thanks for posting it.
Because some of us have actually had friends and family members who were actually addicted to drugs...calling sugar an "addiction" and making cocaine references is pretty much just insulting to people who actually have problems that go beyond some mere cravings...
I used to self-medicate with alcohol, and other substances and behaviors, and the cravings I felt for food felt exactly the same.
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Fairly sure that everyone who has ingested sugar has ended up dying at some point. Clearly there's a connection....First dihydrogen monoxide and now sugar?? 2017 sucks!
/s
I also know that 100% of people who have eaten carrots have died or will die. So I guess carrots are off the list too.
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Interesting long read by Gary Taubes in The Guardian today about sugar's addictive effects and the futility of trying to "moderate" its consumption. He also makes the interesting observation that people tend to define moderation as "whatever works for them". Anyway, it's all enough to convince me...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug
I haven't read all the replies....some people get really upset when you ask them to give up sugar, but of course it is not addictive.Interesting long read by Gary Taubes in The Guardian today about sugar's addictive effects and the futility of trying to "moderate" its consumption. He also makes the interesting observation that people tend to define moderation as "whatever works for them". Anyway, it's all enough to convince me...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug
I haven't read all the replies....some people get really upset when you ask them to give up sugar, but of course it is not addictive.
Huh...so you're saying that it is surprising that people become hostile when you try to use a bunch of pseudoscience BS to tax, regulate or otherwise attack a culinary linchpin for many cultures, from the scriptures of ancient Israel to the finest musical and ballet compositions of Imperial Russia (my daughter is falling asleep to the Nutcracker right now) to many of the treasured memories handed down through our families that connect us to our great grandmothers, and this, to you, is evidence of addiction? That, to me, is a pretty darn sick perspective, but regrettably entirely in keeping with a society that is becoming utterly sterile and soulless. Have fun passing down your kale recipes to your grandkids. Or are children an evil addiction too, because people get upset when they are taken?11 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »All I'm gonna say is that I've had friend's and family who were drug addicts...I've seen them in withdrawal and recovery and I see how they continue to struggle even years later...when I gave up Mt Dew it wasn't even remotely the same thing...
"Sugar addiction" is a bunch of BS...
As another poster mentioned earlier, have you ever seen the program "My 600 Pound Life"? Or how many people even here have lost weight time and again only to regain it overeating sweet foods? Maybe it's just not a problem for you. Personally I can take or leave booze but I don't deny that alcohol addiction is a problem for a lot of people.Tacklewasher wrote: »But it isn't just "sweet food". That show does nothing to teach someone how to eat properly, so when they are done with the show they haven't learned anything and gain the weight back. It's not that they are addicted to sugar. And please don't compare it to an alcohol addiction. It isn't anything like that and, as has been pointed out before, that is an insult to those with a true addiction.
I am the one who initially brought up My 600 Pound Life and said "(Not specific to sugar - making a point about people self-medicating with food.)"
I used to self-medicate with alcohol, and other substances and behaviors, and while I did have some serious negative consequences from that, I wouldn't trade my journey for theirs, and am not at all insulted by the comparison.2 -
Update I just ate four Oreos and a glass of milk and I'm still alive and have not gained give five pounds...16
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