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Giving up sugar for good
Replies
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@Ty_Floyd I find it frankly amazing how angrily people are reacting to the information you presented quite neutrally.
For me, sugar may not have been as addicting as cocaine, but since reducing it drastically from my diet (going from a ridiculous 125g or something per day!) to a more sensible 24g per day has made a world of difference in my cravings. I think there are other people for whom that is also true. Do I believe that sugar is a drug? Nah. Do I think trying to avoid it as much as possible is very beneficial *for some people* in controlling cravings? Absolutely. I'm glad I discovered people like Taubes because it helped me think hard about what sugar does to my body and make thoughtful choices about how much of it I want to consume. Maybe the article you shared will have the same impact on others. Thanks for posting it.
Because some of us have actually had friends and family members who were actually addicted to drugs...calling sugar an "addiction" and making cocaine references is pretty much just insulting to people who actually have problems that go beyond some mere cravings...
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OK. I would like to point out one thing about the article. Of course, babies will prefer sugar water over plain water. Breast milk is sweet. The one thing about tracking calories that I have learned is that 1200 calories a day doesn't provide room for straight up sugar. If I want to eat anything of good substance, I have to do away with soda, butter, and sugar. Thank God for spices!4
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janejellyroll wrote: »
But -- at least in the US -- all of those will be listed on the label as a single count for sugar. It doesn't matter how you split it up on the ingredients list, you still need to report total sugars. And unless you're claiming that active fraud is going on, it's hard to understand how something is "hidden" if a label tells me there are 12 grams of sugar in a serving and there are actually 12 grams of sugar in a serving.
The total sugar portion of the label actually makes it *easier* for me to understand how much sugar is in something. I don't need to know all the various names for sugar. I just need to look at that line to understand how much I'm getting per serving.tlflag1620 wrote: »
Don't confuse the ingredients label with the nutrition facts label. Yes, there are a lot of names for what amounts to the same thing (sugar). But the carbs are always listed, and under than the amount of sugar (in g per serving) and fiber (in g per serving). The remainder of carbs are starch. You can figure out how much sugar is in a serving of any given product, without memorizing the various names of different sources of sugar. And with the new labels "added sugar" will be a separate line item. So if the goal is to reduce added sugar, you will have an easier time ferreting out how much is naturally occurring and how much was added (not that it much matters, sugar is sugar).
Thank you. Yes I, see now I was referring to the "ingredients list" rather than the "nutritional info label". I think the practice is still sneaky and that the average man on the street might make the same mistake.
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French_Peasant wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Again, I don't eat much in the way of added sugar...but on a molecular level, what's the difference? There is none...sugar is sugar...refined sugar is just sugar cane (a plant) that has been processed. Your body is going to treat sugar as sugar regardless of source...this is just fear mongering.
Addictive drugs are addictive in their 'refined' state but not when consumed in their natural (plant) state. The same theory is now being applied to sugar.
The problem has been exacerbated in recent years with the increased consumption of manufactured snacks, fizzy drinks and hidden sugars in diet/low fat foods and breakfast cereals etc (and cigarettes apparently) that are relatively high in refined sugars.
Sooooooooooooo....if I eat my honey from a bear squeeze bottle, it's addictive, but if I break into a bee tree and eat it out of the comb with muh bear paws...it's not addictive? Please explain. I don't know about you, but my Northern European ancestors have been separating honey from the comb and indeed brewing it into mead and creating sweets for millenia.
It has to do with the number of bee stings received during procurement.5 -
I find it frankly amazing how angrily people are reacting to the information you presented quite neutrally.
You're reading anger into text where there is none. You're inferring tone from people who are disagreeing with the OP. There are no angry posts in this thread.
It is something that has been discussed quite often on these boards, though, and while I can see overeating palatable foods can be a compulsion for some people, sugar itself is not a physically addictive substance and should not be viewed as such. People who are behaviorally addicted to food should be treated individually.12 -
duchessnic wrote: »OK. I would like to point out one thing about the article. Of course, babies will prefer sugar water over plain water. Breast milk is sweet. The one thing about tracking calories that I have learned is that 1200 calories a day doesn't provide room for straight up sugar. If I want to eat anything of good substance, I have to do away with soda, butter, and sugar. Thank God for spices!
You can have those things, and still lose weight. It is all about moderation and self control. If you don't learn this, you may be in the over 80% that regain the lost weight.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »All I'm gonna say is that I've had friend's and family who were drug addicts...I've seen them in withdrawal and recovery and I see how they continue to struggle even years later...when I gave up Mt Dew it wasn't even remotely the same thing...
"Sugar addiction" is a bunch of BS...
As another poster mentioned earlier, have you ever seen the program "My 600 Pound Life"? Or how many people even here have lost weight time and again only to regain it overeating sweet foods? Maybe it's just not a problem for you. Personally I can take or leave booze but I don't deny that alcohol addiction is a problem for a lot of people.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
But -- at least in the US -- all of those will be listed on the label as a single count for sugar. It doesn't matter how you split it up on the ingredients list, you still need to report total sugars. And unless you're claiming that active fraud is going on, it's hard to understand how something is "hidden" if a label tells me there are 12 grams of sugar in a serving and there are actually 12 grams of sugar in a serving.
The total sugar portion of the label actually makes it *easier* for me to understand how much sugar is in something. I don't need to know all the various names for sugar. I just need to look at that line to understand how much I'm getting per serving.tlflag1620 wrote: »
Don't confuse the ingredients label with the nutrition facts label. Yes, there are a lot of names for what amounts to the same thing (sugar). But the carbs are always listed, and under than the amount of sugar (in g per serving) and fiber (in g per serving). The remainder of carbs are starch. You can figure out how much sugar is in a serving of any given product, without memorizing the various names of different sources of sugar. And with the new labels "added sugar" will be a separate line item. So if the goal is to reduce added sugar, you will have an easier time ferreting out how much is naturally occurring and how much was added (not that it much matters, sugar is sugar).
Thank you. Yes I, see now I was referring to the "ingredients list" rather than the "nutritional info label". I think the practice is still sneaky and that the average man on the street might make the same mistake.
How is it sneaky, though? Different types of sugars have different names. If it's laid out in black and white on the nutrition label how much sugar is in a food, I don't see why the names of each individual substance in a food is sneaky.6 -
ShammersPink wrote: »"the English had the world’s most productive network of sugar-producing colonies – is that they lacked any succulent native fruit, and so had little previous opportunity to accustom themselves to sweet things."
WTAF?
I must be hallucinating all the apples, pears, plums, cherries, blackberries, bilberries, carrots, parsnips etc that grow all over England, and even (heaven forbid) Scotland, not to mention the honey from bees.
Also, we are primates FFS. We have all the apparatus required for digesting sugar. We just shouldn't eat it to the near-exclusion of all else.
Actually most of the fruits you mention as being grown in UK originated elsewhere, primarily from the Mediterranean, and American continents.
Britain has plenty of natural fruits, and most others (particularly apples) were likely brought in by the Romans, if not earlier. Not a single one of those fruits originated only in the Americas.
"The native fruits of the British isles, and which, till the thirteenth or fourteenth century, must have been the only sorts known to the common people, are the following: -small purple plums, sloes, wild currants, brambles, raspberries, wood strawberries, cranberries, blackberries, red-berries, heather-berries, elder-berries, roan-berries, haws, holly-berries, hips, hazel-nuts, acorns, and beech-mast." (History of Fruit Gardening in Britain)
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@Ty_Floyd I find it frankly amazing how angrily people are reacting to the information you presented quite neutrally.
I find it quite surprising as well. But then I am relatively new to this discussion board.For me, sugar may not have been as addicting as cocaine, but since reducing it drastically from my diet (going from a ridiculous 125g or something per day!) to a more sensible 24g per day has made a world of difference in my cravings. I think there are other people for whom that is also true. Do I believe that sugar is a drug? Nah. Do I think trying to avoid it as much as possible is very beneficial *for some people* in controlling cravings? Absolutely. I'm glad I discovered people like Taubes because it helped me think hard about what sugar does to my body and make thoughtful choices about how much of it I want to consume. Maybe the article you shared will have the same impact on others. Thanks for posting it.
I hope so too! Thanks for sharing your story—very inspiring!
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Yeah, but the body processes all forms of sugar the same way.Humans have been consuming sugar since the dawn of time...
Humans have been consuming sugar since the dawn of time, but processed sugar is really relatively new. There is added sugar in so much of what we eat that simply wasn't there two or thee generations ago. You can argue that it has no impact, but to imply that people have been eating sugar in the same quantities and the same manner that they do today is a little misleading.
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French_Peasant wrote: »
Sooooooooooooo....if I eat my honey from a bear squeeze bottle, it's addictive, but if I break into a bee tree and eat it out of the comb with muh bear paws...it's not addictive? Please explain.
Er, yes—exactly. That is the theory (the refined/concentrated substance induces an intensity of pleasure/dopamine rush that one doesn't get with the unrefined substance).
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cwolfman13 wrote: »All I'm gonna say is that I've had friend's and family who were drug addicts...I've seen them in withdrawal and recovery and I see how they continue to struggle even years later...when I gave up Mt Dew it wasn't even remotely the same thing...
"Sugar addiction" is a bunch of BS...
As another poster mentioned earlier, have you ever seen the program "My 600 Pound Life"? Or how many people even here have lost weight time and again only to regain it overeating sweet foods? Maybe it's just not a problem for you. Personally I can take or leave booze but I don't deny that alcohol addiction is a problem for a lot of people.
Have you ever seen someone coming off of meth? Sorry bub...not going to convince me.
People who are overeating like that have a behavior disorder...probably a binge eating disorder for which there are likely underlying issues...doesn't make sugar "addictive"...its friggin' insulting and "addiction" is just way over used to excuse behavior.9 -
I take it OP isn't following the Ice Cream and Abs channel on youtube.com
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cwolfman13 wrote: »All I'm gonna say is that I've had friend's and family who were drug addicts...I've seen them in withdrawal and recovery and I see how they continue to struggle even years later...when I gave up Mt Dew it wasn't even remotely the same thing...
"Sugar addiction" is a bunch of BS...
One only has to actually see the physical withdrawal symptoms a meth/heroin/cocaine addict goes through and the whole argument becomes moot and completely ridiculous. I've never seen anybody curled up in the fetal position drenched in sweat, shaking uncontrollably, sobbing and vomiting/urinating/defecating all over themselves because they didn't get their Snickers bar for the day.16 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »All I'm gonna say is that I've had friend's and family who were drug addicts...I've seen them in withdrawal and recovery and I see how they continue to struggle even years later...when I gave up Mt Dew it wasn't even remotely the same thing...
"Sugar addiction" is a bunch of BS...
As another poster mentioned earlier, have you ever seen the program "My 600 Pound Life"? Or how many people even here have lost weight time and again only to regain it overeating sweet foods? Maybe it's just not a problem for you. Personally I can take or leave booze but I don't deny that alcohol addiction is a problem for a lot of people.
Have you ever seen someone coming off of meth? Sorry bub...not going to convince me.
People who are overeating like that have a behavior disorder...probably a binge eating disorder for which there are likely underlying issues...doesn't make sugar "addictive"...its friggin' insulting and "addiction" is just way over used to excuse behavior.
So true, and someone @ 600# got there by overeating a lot of food, which likely included sugary foods, but probably by consuming vast amounts of many foods/beverages.
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French_Peasant wrote: »
Sooooooooooooo....if I eat my honey from a bear squeeze bottle, it's addictive, but if I break into a bee tree and eat it out of the comb with muh bear paws...it's not addictive? Please explain.
Er, yes—exactly. That is the theory (the refined/concentrated substance induces an intensity of pleasure/dopamine rush that one doesn't get with the unrefined substance).
And there is why most here think the theory is crap.
BTW, this site has a swear word filter so if the last word I typed in the line above is considered a swear word, it will be changed to *kitten*.
Huh. Guess "crap" isn't a bad enough word.4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Have you ever seen someone coming off of meth? Sorry bub...not going to convince me.
I'm sure the withdrawal process comes with varying degrees of pain according to the drug. Apparently alcohol withdrawal is physically hardest on the body (one can actually die from going cold turkey) while, say, nicotine withdrawal is fairly mild and perhaps "sugar withdrawal" might be on a par with that.
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@Ty_Floyd I find it frankly amazing how angrily people are reacting to the information you presented quite neutrally.
For me, sugar may not have been as addicting as cocaine, but since reducing it drastically from my diet (going from a ridiculous 125g or something per day!) to a more sensible 24g per day has made a world of difference in my cravings. I think there are other people for whom that is also true. Do I believe that sugar is a drug? Nah. Do I think trying to avoid it as much as possible is very beneficial *for some people* in controlling cravings? Absolutely. I'm glad I discovered people like Taubes because it helped me think hard about what sugar does to my body and make thoughtful choices about how much of it I want to consume. Maybe the article you shared will have the same impact on others. Thanks for posting it.
It's not anger, but at least for me, it is weariness and annoyance. This persistent myth, and this decades-old trend of demonizing one specific food, is grating. First fat was bad, then carbs, now specifically sugar. People want a scapegoat so badly that they won't look around and go "Hey, maybe I'm eating too damn much of everything!" The more sugar is promoted as evil, the more we lose focus on INCLUSIVE diets where our goal is to get our necessary amounts of nutrients in for good health. Rather than thinking about all the things we need to cut out, why can't we make thoughtful choices about fueling our bodies first and then enjoying whatever else we wish once those needs have been met? Why do we need to promote guilt and fear over eating a daily piece of chocolate or a slice of cake on a special occasion? These are all things that stem from authors like Taubes and researchers like Lustig pushing an agenda. Never mind that sugar's physical effect on the body pales in comparison to hard drugs, and there's been piles of research and metastudies concluding that sugar is not a physically addictive substance. There may be people with behavioral problems around it, but that's true of anything.20 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »All I'm gonna say is that I've had friend's and family who were drug addicts...I've seen them in withdrawal and recovery and I see how they continue to struggle even years later...when I gave up Mt Dew it wasn't even remotely the same thing...
"Sugar addiction" is a bunch of BS...
As another poster mentioned earlier, have you ever seen the program "My 600 Pound Life"? Or how many people even here have lost weight time and again only to regain it overeating sweet foods? Maybe it's just not a problem for you. Personally I can take or leave booze but I don't deny that alcohol addiction is a problem for a lot of people.
But it isn't just "sweet food". That show does nothing to teach someone how to eat properly, so when they are done with the show they haven't learned anything and gain the weight back. It's not that they are addicted to sugar. And please don't compare it to an alcohol addiction. It isn't anything like that and, as has been pointed out before, that is an insult to those with a true addiction.9 -
Addicted:
adjective
1.
devoted or given up to a practice or habit or to something psychologically or physically habit-forming (usually followed by to):
to be addicted to drugs.2 -
I admit my knee jerk reaction to sugar being addictive has in the past been incredulity. I'm still skeptical, but I’ll accept it's possible that some people may have a brain disorder where they respond to sugar like it's an addictive drug. What are the necessary components for a substance to be classified as a drug? I only skimmed the article so far, so my apologies if that gets delineated.
What’s hard for me is the compulsive appetite increase sugar can sometimes give me, but I don’t think that makes it a drug. Because of the way sugar can impact me though, I eat it in a way that avoids triggering that reaction in me. It’s not a reaction based on “This is yummy and I want more.” I can get the reaction from ketchup, which I don’t even like!
I can see how others who experience a similar reaction could then suspect they’re “addicted” but I think what I experience is a transient response, not an addiction. But I’ll keep an open mind. Others may have something different going on.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Have you ever seen someone coming off of meth? Sorry bub...not going to convince me.
I'm sure the withdrawal process comes with varying degrees of pain according to the drug. Apparently alcohol withdrawal is physically hardest on the body (one can actually die from going cold turkey) while, say, nicotine withdrawal is fairly mild and perhaps "sugar withdrawal" might be on a par with that.
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Beyond that, that's not what you brought up...you went into the whole cocaine thing...
By the by, many of the things that people claim to be "addicted" to aren't just sugar...they're usually a highly palatable combination of sugar and fat...I'd wager that the 600# life guy was eating a *kitten* ton of fat in addition to sugary stuff...but sugar is the "drug"...not buying it.
I believe that eating behavior can be a problem...but not some ingredient.7 -
duchessnic wrote: »OK. I would like to point out one thing about the article. Of course, babies will prefer sugar water over plain water. Breast milk is sweet. The one thing about tracking calories that I have learned is that 1200 calories a day doesn't provide room for straight up sugar. If I want to eat anything of good substance, I have to do away with soda, butter, and sugar. Thank God for spices!
When I was first losing and had less activity than I do now, I ate 1200 calories.
I had room in my day for a few cookies or a small serving of ice cream. And I had plenty of food "of good substance".7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
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cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-29126872
It's a behavioral issue...
I just wish people could actually discuss the fact that over consumption is an issue (with sugar and everything else) without blowing it up into a bunch of addiction derp...it's pretty much a non-starter at that point.
It's possible to agree that over consumption is an issue with linking it to addiction and total abstinence (which isn't possible)6 -
French_Peasant wrote: »
Sooooooooooooo....if I eat my honey from a bear squeeze bottle, it's addictive, but if I break into a bee tree and eat it out of the comb with muh bear paws...it's not addictive? Please explain.
Er, yes—exactly. That is the theory (the refined/concentrated substance induces an intensity of pleasure/dopamine rush that one doesn't get with the unrefined substance).
Then that theory doesn't make sense because there is no structural difference between honey in the comb and honey out of the comb. Honey is honey. Unless we are suggesting that, much like the East India Trading Company, the bees are an evil corporation producing and refining that tasty, addictive sugar to enslave us.
Personally I get just as much (actually, much more) of a dopamine hit from my sauteed brussels sprouts or roasted root vegetables sprinkled with rosemary, Celtic gray sea salt, and cracked black pepper than I do from, say, a piece of candy. Of course, olive oil is a key component of that. It used to be trendy to say that fat and oil was the eebil debbil, now it's trendy to say sugar.8 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-29126872
It's a behavioral issue...
Back 'atcha! (:-)
http://abc13.com/health/study-sugar-is-as-addictive-as-cocaine/533979/
Seriously though, I think we can agree that the medical profession is divided on the issue and there is no definitive research yet, which again is one of the points Taube's article makes...
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cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-29126872
It's a behavioral issue...
Back 'atcha! (:-)
http://abc13.com/health/study-sugar-is-as-addictive-as-cocaine/533979/
Seriously though, I think we can agree that the medical profession is divided on the issue and there is no definitive research yet, which again is one of the points Taube's article makes...
Enjoy your excuses....
If you truly feel you are addicted then you are simply letting it control you...3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-29126872
It's a behavioral issue...
Back 'atcha! (:-)
http://abc13.com/health/study-sugar-is-as-addictive-as-cocaine/533979/
Seriously though, I think we can agree that the medical profession is divided on the issue and there is no definitive research yet, which again is one of the points Taube's article makes...
A 2010 metastudy concluding sugar addiction is not supported by research: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261561409002398
And reposting @GottaBurnEmAll 's link to the 2016 metastudy concluding sugar addiction is not supported by research:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-016-1229-66
This discussion has been closed.
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