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Giving up sugar for good
Replies
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In all seriousness, and without having read the linked article (because I think Taubes is utterly ridiculous since he refuses to acknowledge that his insulin theory is dead in the water), here are my thoughts after having learned a lot from ten years of low carbing and living without sugar, 40 years of dieting, finally successfully losing weight, and learning how weight management actually functions. Take them for what you will.
The reason issues like this get a lot of pushback on these forums are varied. Many dieters come here with a history of having restricted in the past, having been told it was the path to success, only to find it led to more problematic behavior for them.
Those of you who feel that a particular food is the problem remind some of us of ourselves at one point in time.
Saying that, have at it. Just don't try to convince us that it's the only path to success or that it's necessary to lasting success. For some of you, giving up something for good might very well be sustainable. For others, it only leads to an endless cycle of restrict/binge behavior.
The bottom line that is most problematic here? Blaming a substance removes the issue of personal accountability from the issue of weight loss. More than anything else I have learned in being successful, I have learned the need for brutal honesty with myself and the need for owning my own behavior in regards to weight and how I use food.
Scapegoating food in any way, no matter how you mask it? You're still not there yet, and any time I see someone on this forum doing it, I can almost guarantee that person will put their weight back on at some point in time or another.25 -
On another note, what's with all this "kitten" stuff? Someone please explain so I can be in on the joke too. (:-)
Staying out of the usual sugar arguments (they're a dime a dozen here), but the kitten thing is something MFP does to replace a word that's considered "naughty." No private jokes, unfortunately.3 -
:laugh:Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Agreed - this is why I eat cigarettes during a long run.
Alyssa is huffing and puffing along....oh, wait.6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »All I'm gonna say is that I've had friend's and family who were drug addicts...I've seen them in withdrawal and recovery and I see how they continue to struggle even years later...when I gave up Mt Dew it wasn't even remotely the same thing...
"Sugar addiction" is a bunch of BS...
Agreed 100%. @cwolfman13 Sorry to hear that you've been through this. I understand the pain. I've been through similar with those close to me, and had my own battles (years ago).
It really grind my gears when someone goes on about sugar being as addictive as drugs. No, buddy, they're nothing alike.@Ty_Floyd I find it frankly amazing how angrily people are reacting to the information you presented quite neutrally.
For me, sugar may not have been as addicting as cocaine, but since reducing it drastically from my diet (going from a ridiculous 125g or something per day!) to a more sensible 24g per day has made a world of difference in my cravings. I think there are other people for whom that is also true. Do I believe that sugar is a drug? Nah. Do I think trying to avoid it as much as possible is very beneficial *for some people* in controlling cravings? Absolutely. I'm glad I discovered people like Taubes because it helped me think hard about what sugar does to my body and make thoughtful choices about how much of it I want to consume. Maybe the article you shared will have the same impact on others. Thanks for posting it.
It's an absolute insult to those who have been through the pain seeing someone else going through drug addiction and withdrawal, as well as he pain others go through when it is you. I've had a good friend die due to having a drug problem. That broke my heart. He was a wonderful person. I've seen the hell a certain someone close to me go through when withdrawing. I've personally had troubles (a long time ago) and I've also cut out sugar...was it the same as drugs?
No. Not even remotely close. Are you kidding?
Ignorance shines through whenever someone goes on to lump sugar and actual additive drugs in the same category.
Also? Taubes' crap has been debunked many times by science.9 -
I bit the bullet and read the whole article. Taube's articles can be such an eyeroll fest, but he somehow managed to outdo himself on this one.
Seriously? Cigarettes have sugar? Well, oil is used in soap.. so? How is that even relevant?
Once people are exposed, they consume as much sugar as they can easily procure? I have not seen a more rediculous generalization. I go weeks, and in some instances months, without added sugar without even noticing, even after going weeks having it daily. I just randomly lose interest. Is that how addiction works?
People moderate their kids' sugar intake therefore sugar is bad? And? Parents moderate their kids' everything including video games and, in my case as a kid, tomatoes and Greek yogurt.
The tired argument of sugar and the dopamine? Yeah, a hot shower with a nice smelling shower gel does it for me. I should quit showering forever because it might be addictive I guess. You know what else stimulates my pleasure center? Cheese! It turns out I'm not the only one. It's even dubbed as "dairy crack" by the same media that likes slapping the addictive label on sugar, but hating on cheese is not as trendy I guess, and hating on fat (which has been studied extensively and found to stimulate dopamine) has gone out of vogue.
He then ends the article saying that sugar is very likely to be a toxic substance. Yeah, no comment.
It's like he scouted the internet for woo paddlers like the food babe and her elk then distilled all their ideas into one article.
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Processed sugar has been around for hundreds of years. People may be eating more processed foods yes, but even if sugar was added, your body still processes it the same. Our issue of being overweight is DIRECTLY because of one reason................over consumption of calories needed.
Humans have been consuming sugar since the dawn of time, but processed sugar is really relatively new. There is added sugar in so much of what we eat that simply wasn't there two or thee generations ago. You can argue that it has no impact, but to imply that people have been eating sugar in the same quantities and the same manner that they do today is a little misleading.
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Lol, it's not "hidden". It's plainly there on the label. If someone doesn't know what any of those ingredients are, it's on the buyer. If someone was REALLY concerned about sugar (like a diabetic), they understand the terms.singingflutelady wrote: »
Hidden sugars? They're listed in the ingredients (don't know about cigarettes but for food items). Nothing hidden about them.cwolfman13 wrote: »Sorry guy...I will never buy this *kitten*...lack of self control =/= addiction. I've ready plenty on it...maybe google "sugar is not addictive" and take a look at research from the other side...
Also, there are no "hidden" sugars...they're right there on the label...
Oh, but they are hidden, and deliberately so. The most common way of doing this is instead of listing the total sugar content of a food the manufacturer will divide that total between several confusing synonyms. Remember that your average man on the street is not a food detective, unlike your average MFP user!
Just some of the many synonyms used for sugar on food labelling:
Cane juice, Dehydrated cane juice, Cane juice solids, Cane juice crystals, Dextrin, Maltodextrin, Dextran, Barley malt, Beet sugar, Corn syrup, Corn syrup solids, Caramel, Buttered syrup, Carob syrup, Brown sugar, Date sugar, Malt syrup, Diatase, Diatastic malt, Fruit juice, Fruit juice concentrate, Dehydrated fruit juice, Fruit juice crystals, Golden syrup, Turbinado, Sorghum syrup, Refiner's syrup, Ethyl maltol, Maple syrup, Yellow sugar
Apart from the obvious:
Sucrose, Maltose, Dextrose, Fructose, Glucose, Galactose, Lactose, High fructose corn syrup, Glucose solids
On another note, what's with all this "kitten" stuff? Someone please explain so I can be in on the joke too. (:-)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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duchessnic wrote: »OK. I would like to point out one thing about the article. Of course, babies will prefer sugar water over plain water. Breast milk is sweet. The one thing about tracking calories that I have learned is that 1200 calories a day doesn't provide room for straight up sugar. If I want to eat anything of good substance, I have to do away with soda, butter, and sugar. Thank God for spices!
Sugar is 15 calories a tsp, butter is 35 calories. It can fit.5 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »duchessnic wrote: »OK. I would like to point out one thing about the article. Of course, babies will prefer sugar water over plain water. Breast milk is sweet. The one thing about tracking calories that I have learned is that 1200 calories a day doesn't provide room for straight up sugar. If I want to eat anything of good substance, I have to do away with soda, butter, and sugar. Thank God for spices!
Sugar is 15 calories a tsp, butter is 35 calories. It can fit.
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Neutral? Lol, when someone presents sugar as a drug, that's not neutral. That's BIAS.@Ty_Floyd I find it frankly amazing how angrily people are reacting to the information you presented quite neutrally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Actually most of the fruits you mention as being grown in UK originated elsewhere, primarily from the Mediterranean, and American continents.
No. Some are native, or cultivated forms of native species. Others are, indeed, originally from Europe and the middle east, or hybrids between natives and other European species, but most of Britain was part of the Roman Empire, and they introduced many food plants. They even cultivated grapes here. We have a long, long history of trade with other European nations post-Roman Empire and pre-British Empire. We have always malted grains for sweetness, too.
I don't think that the introduction of sugar from plantations was the first time the British encountered sweetness.7 -
FatChickToNotSoFatChick wrote: »All these people making jokes have obviously never walked into a club bathroom to find their friend passed out with a spoon sticky with sugar and a lighter. It's something you never forget
what explain this one carefully for me or is it just a weird joke?0 -
FatChickToNotSoFatChick wrote: »All these people making jokes have obviously never walked into a club bathroom to find their friend passed out with a spoon sticky with sugar and a lighter. It's something you never forget
[
what explain this one carefully for me or is it just a weird joke?0 -
dragon_girl26 wrote: »On another note, what's with all this "kitten" stuff? Someone please explain so I can be in on the joke too. (:-)
Staying out of the usual sugar arguments (they're a dime a dozen here), but the kitten thing is something MFP does to replace a word that's considered "naughty." No private jokes, unfortunately.
I see. Thank you for the explanation!1 -
igottapee333 wrote: »FatChickToNotSoFatChick wrote: »All these people making jokes have obviously never walked into a club bathroom to find their friend passed out with a spoon sticky with sugar and a lighter. It's something you never forget
what explain this one carefully for me or is it just a weird joke?
sarcasm...1 -
Interesting long read by Gary Taubes in The Guardian today about sugar's addictive effects and the futility of trying to "moderate" its consumption. He also makes the interesting observation that people tend to define moderation as "whatever works for them". Anyway, it's all enough to convince me...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug
The guardian also had a long format article & podcast about "The Sugar Conspiracy," which was super interesting!
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
I think the Taubes position is mostly talking about sucrose, right? I mean "sugar" is a very blanket term which can often be misappropriated to starches & carbohydrates in general, which (in my opinion) is a grave mistake.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »I bit the bullet and read the whole article. Taube's articles can be such an eyeroll fest, but he somehow managed to outdo himself on this one.
Seriously? Cigarettes have sugar? Well, oil is used in soap.. so? How is that even relevant?
Once people are exposed, they consume as much sugar as they can easily procure? I have not seen a more rediculous generalization. I go weeks, and in some instances months, without added sugar without even noticing, even after going weeks having it daily. I just randomly lose interest. Is that how addiction works?
People moderate their kids' sugar intake therefore sugar is bad? And? Parents moderate their kids' everything including video games and, in my case as a kid, tomatoes and Greek yogurt.
The tired argument of sugar and the dopamine? Yeah, a hot shower with a nice smelling shower gel does it for me. I should quit showering forever because it might be addictive I guess. You know what else stimulates my pleasure center? Cheese! It turns out I'm not the only one. It's even dubbed as "dairy crack" by the same media that likes slapping the addictive label on sugar, but hating on cheese is not as trendy I guess, and hating on fat (which has been studied extensively and found to stimulate dopamine) has gone out of vogue.
He then ends the article saying that sugar is very likely to be a toxic substance. Yeah, no comment.
It's like he scouted the internet for woo paddlers like the food babe and her elk then distilled all their ideas into one article.
I will agree that the article was disappointing. He unnecessarily introduced some strange reasoning.
But as to parents moderating their children's consumption of sugar, I was thinking that a stronger argument could be made by pointing out that we are supposed to give our children ZERO added sugar from birth to 2 years old. Does anyone disagree with this advice? Would you or did you ignore it with your babies?3 -
igottapee333 wrote: »FatChickToNotSoFatChick wrote: »All these people making jokes have obviously never walked into a club bathroom to find their friend passed out with a spoon sticky with sugar and a lighter. It's something you never forget
[
what explain this one carefully for me or is it just a weird joke?
I think she is trying to say that unless you've descended to the state of a heroin addict you don't have anything to worry about.
See I didn't need to bother quitting smoking after all—clearly I wasn't addicted as I was never found passed out on the floor in a nightclub!4 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »I've given up sugar (or mostly given it up) not for weight loss purposes but for gout purposes. I've read some scientific articles that say fructose is way bad for gout. I believe it!
gout can be caused by eating certain things not just fructose. my husbands gout flares up if he eats too much pork, an uncle had it and it would flare up if he ate pickled banana peppers. it has to do with uric acid production. if fructose causes it(which it states it can) then you would have to watch fruits and some veggies as well as they are mainly fructose. not to mention certain medical issues,diet,weight,age,etc all are risk factors in gout..if you suffer from gout its best to avoid things that can cause it/flare ups. if you know a certain food causes a flare up you avoid that food.
Gout is caused when uric acid builds up and uric acid crystals precipitate out of the blood and into tissues. The immune system then attacks the crystals and causes a gout flare. People can have the crystals and not have the flare if their immune system isn't attacking the crystals.
Purines in meat produce uric acid when metabolized. Ketones (losing weight can cause gout) and sugars and other things don't produce uric acid but interfere with the kidney's elimination of the uric acid. Who knows what else causes an individuals immune system to go off on the crystals also. Like you said, if you notice something that is causing problems, then that needs to be eliminated. The article I read said that the sugar effect (fructose) is worse than the meat but I have problems with both. Kidney function is hereditary and my dad and brother had to deal with this also. From what I've read the kidneys are supposed to get rid of the majority of the uric acid and the digestive system handles a part of it too (25% I believe I've read). Lots of factors.0 -
Sorry - I lost interest when he calls sugar a drug. It's not a drug and it's not addictive. People may LIKE the taste of sugar and thus want to consume more but it's no more addictive than cheese is (which is something I have problems moderating but I'm not addicted to it).
I really wish people would stop listening to this kind of low intellect fear-mongering.
/rant
"[Casein], which is present in all dairy products, can trigger the brain’s opioid receptors which are linked to addiction."
http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/cheese-triggers-the-same-part-of-brain-as-hard-drugs-study-finds-a6707011.html
The hypothesis is that milk triggers this reaction so that baby animals drink as much of it as they can so they can get all their nutrients in before they are weaned. It makes sense to me!
bests,
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This thread is an example of why we can't have nice things
.
Sugar does release dopamine. So does petting your cat. Or laughing at a movie. Or seeing a loved one smile. That doesn't make something addictive. Drugs do more than just trigger the release of dopamine, and I agree that equating sugar to cocaine is a *kitten* insult to the thousands of people who have struggled with or lost someone to addiction.
The "sweet" things I have trouble moderating have more than just sugar in them. Ice cream, brownies, cookies, candy bars... they also have fat. In fact for some of those foods, the fat provides more calories than the sugar. I also sometimes struggle moderating nuts and cheese. Those are predominately fat. Then there's fried chicken - fat and protein. So if you use my n=1 it would seem more likely that fat is the problem, not sugar. Having said that, I have at this point managed to moderate all of them, most of the time.
The folks in My 600 Lb Life grossly overeat everything. Everything. They plow through a bucket of chicken and a whole pizza. They eat a mountain of pork chops and roasted potatoes and brussel sprouts. Yes they also guzzle soda and eat a tray of brownies, but it's not just sugar. Their issue is they can no longer tell what a reasonable amount of food is, and almost always their issue is soothing a deep emotional problem with food. They are often victims of abuse. They are not sugar addicts.
Moderating sugar, or any yummy food for that matter, requires self control and discipline, and sometimes we don't have enough of that. I could make a pretty good case that reading the MFP forum is way more addictive than sugar. I keep telling myself to stop, but I keep waking up with my face on the keyboard, half way through a witty reply to a post that has since been deleted, feeling waves of shame and disappointment. So I end up eating half a jar of roasted cashews and going to bed
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Interesting long read by Gary Taubes in The Guardian today about sugar's addictive effects and the futility of trying to "moderate" its consumption. He also makes the interesting observation that people tend to define moderation as "whatever works for them". Anyway, it's all enough to convince me...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug
The guardian also had a long format article & podcast about "The Sugar Conspiracy," which was super interesting!
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
I think the Taubes position is mostly talking about sucrose, right? I mean "sugar" is a very blanket term which can often be misappropriated to starches & carbohydrates in general, which (in my opinion) is a grave mistake.
We had a long debate about this: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10392679/the-sugar-conspiracy/p1
I'd highly recommend reading this as a response to the article: http://www.thenutritionwonk.com/#!Ancel-Keys-and-the-Seven-Country-Study-A-Response-to-The-Sugar-Conspiracy/cmbz/570ed1910cf20b4e25a4d9f26 -
This one is close ... Back in my University days there was this one student everyone disliked - because he was an entitled, arrogant douche - so when he drove home for Christmas (across the US / Canada border) the border site he was going through received an anonymous tip about his drug stash ... Someone had secreted four bags of icing sugar into the trunk of his car...Mycophilia wrote: »I've yet to see a drug trade go down where the white powder in the bag is actual sugar.
Even though the customs guys figured out (eventually) that he (and they) were pranked, he had quite the horror story to tell, and NOBODY ever fessed-up as to who did it.6 -
Interesting long read by Gary Taubes in The Guardian today about sugar's addictive effects and the futility of trying to "moderate" its consumption. He also makes the interesting observation that people tend to define moderation as "whatever works for them". Anyway, it's all enough to convince me...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug
I haven't read all the replies....some people get really upset when you ask them to give up sugar, but of course it is not addictive.4 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »I bit the bullet and read the whole article.
Thanks for this. You're braver than I am.
1 -
Interesting long read by Gary Taubes in The Guardian today about sugar's addictive effects and the futility of trying to "moderate" its consumption. He also makes the interesting observation that people tend to define moderation as "whatever works for them". Anyway, it's all enough to convince me...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug
I haven't read all the replies....some people get really upset when you ask them to give up sugar, but of course it is not addictive.
Strong first post.5 -
Interesting long read by Gary Taubes in The Guardian today about sugar's addictive effects and the futility of trying to "moderate" its consumption. He also makes the interesting observation that people tend to define moderation as "whatever works for them". Anyway, it's all enough to convince me...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug
I haven't read all the replies....some people get really upset when you ask them to give up sugar, but of course it is not addictive.
If "things you don't want to give up" was the criterion for addiction, then I'm addicted to listening to music, playing board games, hiking, programming, reading, and wearing pants (among many other things). I'm not sure I will find time to do anything else what with all the 12-step programs I apparently need to be attending.18 -
If there were absolutely no other sweets in my house, I would never be tempted to eat plain sugar. Am I addicted?8
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I'm sure the bees can defend themselves ;-)French_Peasant wrote: »In the meantime, I'll personally just work on eating common-sense, modest amounts of sugar, like moms have been telling their kids for years, and maybe get a beehive and hide it from the sugar police.
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Interesting long read by Gary Taubes in The Guardian today about sugar's addictive effects and the futility of trying to "moderate" its consumption. He also makes the interesting observation that people tend to define moderation as "whatever works for them". Anyway, it's all enough to convince me...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug
I haven't read all the replies....some people get really upset when you ask them to give up sugar, but of course it is not addictive.
Then again, some people don't eat much sugar, they just don't like to see rampant stupidity like Taubes and Lustig propagated.11
This discussion has been closed.
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