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Giving up sugar for good
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Addicted:
adjective
1.
devoted or given up to a practice or habit or to something psychologically or physically habit-forming (usually followed by to):
to be addicted to drugs.2 -
I admit my knee jerk reaction to sugar being addictive has in the past been incredulity. I'm still skeptical, but I’ll accept it's possible that some people may have a brain disorder where they respond to sugar like it's an addictive drug. What are the necessary components for a substance to be classified as a drug? I only skimmed the article so far, so my apologies if that gets delineated.
What’s hard for me is the compulsive appetite increase sugar can sometimes give me, but I don’t think that makes it a drug. Because of the way sugar can impact me though, I eat it in a way that avoids triggering that reaction in me. It’s not a reaction based on “This is yummy and I want more.” I can get the reaction from ketchup, which I don’t even like!
I can see how others who experience a similar reaction could then suspect they’re “addicted” but I think what I experience is a transient response, not an addiction. But I’ll keep an open mind. Others may have something different going on.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Have you ever seen someone coming off of meth? Sorry bub...not going to convince me.
I'm sure the withdrawal process comes with varying degrees of pain according to the drug. Apparently alcohol withdrawal is physically hardest on the body (one can actually die from going cold turkey) while, say, nicotine withdrawal is fairly mild and perhaps "sugar withdrawal" might be on a par with that.
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Beyond that, that's not what you brought up...you went into the whole cocaine thing...
By the by, many of the things that people claim to be "addicted" to aren't just sugar...they're usually a highly palatable combination of sugar and fat...I'd wager that the 600# life guy was eating a *kitten* ton of fat in addition to sugary stuff...but sugar is the "drug"...not buying it.
I believe that eating behavior can be a problem...but not some ingredient.7 -
duchessnic wrote: »OK. I would like to point out one thing about the article. Of course, babies will prefer sugar water over plain water. Breast milk is sweet. The one thing about tracking calories that I have learned is that 1200 calories a day doesn't provide room for straight up sugar. If I want to eat anything of good substance, I have to do away with soda, butter, and sugar. Thank God for spices!
When I was first losing and had less activity than I do now, I ate 1200 calories.
I had room in my day for a few cookies or a small serving of ice cream. And I had plenty of food "of good substance".7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
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cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-29126872
It's a behavioral issue...
I just wish people could actually discuss the fact that over consumption is an issue (with sugar and everything else) without blowing it up into a bunch of addiction derp...it's pretty much a non-starter at that point.
It's possible to agree that over consumption is an issue with linking it to addiction and total abstinence (which isn't possible)6 -
French_Peasant wrote: »
Sooooooooooooo....if I eat my honey from a bear squeeze bottle, it's addictive, but if I break into a bee tree and eat it out of the comb with muh bear paws...it's not addictive? Please explain.
Er, yes—exactly. That is the theory (the refined/concentrated substance induces an intensity of pleasure/dopamine rush that one doesn't get with the unrefined substance).
Then that theory doesn't make sense because there is no structural difference between honey in the comb and honey out of the comb. Honey is honey. Unless we are suggesting that, much like the East India Trading Company, the bees are an evil corporation producing and refining that tasty, addictive sugar to enslave us.
Personally I get just as much (actually, much more) of a dopamine hit from my sauteed brussels sprouts or roasted root vegetables sprinkled with rosemary, Celtic gray sea salt, and cracked black pepper than I do from, say, a piece of candy. Of course, olive oil is a key component of that. It used to be trendy to say that fat and oil was the eebil debbil, now it's trendy to say sugar.8 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-29126872
It's a behavioral issue...
Back 'atcha! (:-)
http://abc13.com/health/study-sugar-is-as-addictive-as-cocaine/533979/
Seriously though, I think we can agree that the medical profession is divided on the issue and there is no definitive research yet, which again is one of the points Taube's article makes...
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cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-29126872
It's a behavioral issue...
Back 'atcha! (:-)
http://abc13.com/health/study-sugar-is-as-addictive-as-cocaine/533979/
Seriously though, I think we can agree that the medical profession is divided on the issue and there is no definitive research yet, which again is one of the points Taube's article makes...
Enjoy your excuses....
If you truly feel you are addicted then you are simply letting it control you...3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »
There is no withdrawal...a craving is different than withdrawal symptoms...this is just perpetuating nonsense.
Cravings are just one of the symptoms of withdrawal. People who have given up sugar also report other withdrawal symptoms, including: anger, anxiety, appetite changes, depression, dizziness, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, headaches, insomnia, irritability, mood swings, shakes, and sleep changes. Again quite similar to quitting nicotine!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-29126872
It's a behavioral issue...
Back 'atcha! (:-)
http://abc13.com/health/study-sugar-is-as-addictive-as-cocaine/533979/
Seriously though, I think we can agree that the medical profession is divided on the issue and there is no definitive research yet, which again is one of the points Taube's article makes...
A 2010 metastudy concluding sugar addiction is not supported by research: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261561409002398
And reposting @GottaBurnEmAll 's link to the 2016 metastudy concluding sugar addiction is not supported by research:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-016-1229-66 -
In all seriousness, and without having read the linked article (because I think Taubes is utterly ridiculous since he refuses to acknowledge that his insulin theory is dead in the water), here are my thoughts after having learned a lot from ten years of low carbing and living without sugar, 40 years of dieting, finally successfully losing weight, and learning how weight management actually functions. Take them for what you will.
The reason issues like this get a lot of pushback on these forums are varied. Many dieters come here with a history of having restricted in the past, having been told it was the path to success, only to find it led to more problematic behavior for them.
Those of you who feel that a particular food is the problem remind some of us of ourselves at one point in time.
Saying that, have at it. Just don't try to convince us that it's the only path to success or that it's necessary to lasting success. For some of you, giving up something for good might very well be sustainable. For others, it only leads to an endless cycle of restrict/binge behavior.
The bottom line that is most problematic here? Blaming a substance removes the issue of personal accountability from the issue of weight loss. More than anything else I have learned in being successful, I have learned the need for brutal honesty with myself and the need for owning my own behavior in regards to weight and how I use food.
Scapegoating food in any way, no matter how you mask it? You're still not there yet, and any time I see someone on this forum doing it, I can almost guarantee that person will put their weight back on at some point in time or another.25 -
On another note, what's with all this "kitten" stuff? Someone please explain so I can be in on the joke too. (:-)
Staying out of the usual sugar arguments (they're a dime a dozen here), but the kitten thing is something MFP does to replace a word that's considered "naughty." No private jokes, unfortunately.3 -
:laugh:Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Agreed - this is why I eat cigarettes during a long run.
Alyssa is huffing and puffing along....oh, wait.6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »All I'm gonna say is that I've had friend's and family who were drug addicts...I've seen them in withdrawal and recovery and I see how they continue to struggle even years later...when I gave up Mt Dew it wasn't even remotely the same thing...
"Sugar addiction" is a bunch of BS...
Agreed 100%. @cwolfman13 Sorry to hear that you've been through this. I understand the pain. I've been through similar with those close to me, and had my own battles (years ago).
It really grind my gears when someone goes on about sugar being as addictive as drugs. No, buddy, they're nothing alike.@Ty_Floyd I find it frankly amazing how angrily people are reacting to the information you presented quite neutrally.
For me, sugar may not have been as addicting as cocaine, but since reducing it drastically from my diet (going from a ridiculous 125g or something per day!) to a more sensible 24g per day has made a world of difference in my cravings. I think there are other people for whom that is also true. Do I believe that sugar is a drug? Nah. Do I think trying to avoid it as much as possible is very beneficial *for some people* in controlling cravings? Absolutely. I'm glad I discovered people like Taubes because it helped me think hard about what sugar does to my body and make thoughtful choices about how much of it I want to consume. Maybe the article you shared will have the same impact on others. Thanks for posting it.
It's an absolute insult to those who have been through the pain seeing someone else going through drug addiction and withdrawal, as well as he pain others go through when it is you. I've had a good friend die due to having a drug problem. That broke my heart. He was a wonderful person. I've seen the hell a certain someone close to me go through when withdrawing. I've personally had troubles (a long time ago) and I've also cut out sugar...was it the same as drugs?
No. Not even remotely close. Are you kidding?
Ignorance shines through whenever someone goes on to lump sugar and actual additive drugs in the same category.
Also? Taubes' crap has been debunked many times by science.9 -
I bit the bullet and read the whole article. Taube's articles can be such an eyeroll fest, but he somehow managed to outdo himself on this one.
Seriously? Cigarettes have sugar? Well, oil is used in soap.. so? How is that even relevant?
Once people are exposed, they consume as much sugar as they can easily procure? I have not seen a more rediculous generalization. I go weeks, and in some instances months, without added sugar without even noticing, even after going weeks having it daily. I just randomly lose interest. Is that how addiction works?
People moderate their kids' sugar intake therefore sugar is bad? And? Parents moderate their kids' everything including video games and, in my case as a kid, tomatoes and Greek yogurt.
The tired argument of sugar and the dopamine? Yeah, a hot shower with a nice smelling shower gel does it for me. I should quit showering forever because it might be addictive I guess. You know what else stimulates my pleasure center? Cheese! It turns out I'm not the only one. It's even dubbed as "dairy crack" by the same media that likes slapping the addictive label on sugar, but hating on cheese is not as trendy I guess, and hating on fat (which has been studied extensively and found to stimulate dopamine) has gone out of vogue.
He then ends the article saying that sugar is very likely to be a toxic substance. Yeah, no comment.
It's like he scouted the internet for woo paddlers like the food babe and her elk then distilled all their ideas into one article.
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Processed sugar has been around for hundreds of years. People may be eating more processed foods yes, but even if sugar was added, your body still processes it the same. Our issue of being overweight is DIRECTLY because of one reason................over consumption of calories needed.
Humans have been consuming sugar since the dawn of time, but processed sugar is really relatively new. There is added sugar in so much of what we eat that simply wasn't there two or thee generations ago. You can argue that it has no impact, but to imply that people have been eating sugar in the same quantities and the same manner that they do today is a little misleading.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Lol, it's not "hidden". It's plainly there on the label. If someone doesn't know what any of those ingredients are, it's on the buyer. If someone was REALLY concerned about sugar (like a diabetic), they understand the terms.singingflutelady wrote: »
Hidden sugars? They're listed in the ingredients (don't know about cigarettes but for food items). Nothing hidden about them.cwolfman13 wrote: »Sorry guy...I will never buy this *kitten*...lack of self control =/= addiction. I've ready plenty on it...maybe google "sugar is not addictive" and take a look at research from the other side...
Also, there are no "hidden" sugars...they're right there on the label...
Oh, but they are hidden, and deliberately so. The most common way of doing this is instead of listing the total sugar content of a food the manufacturer will divide that total between several confusing synonyms. Remember that your average man on the street is not a food detective, unlike your average MFP user!
Just some of the many synonyms used for sugar on food labelling:
Cane juice, Dehydrated cane juice, Cane juice solids, Cane juice crystals, Dextrin, Maltodextrin, Dextran, Barley malt, Beet sugar, Corn syrup, Corn syrup solids, Caramel, Buttered syrup, Carob syrup, Brown sugar, Date sugar, Malt syrup, Diatase, Diatastic malt, Fruit juice, Fruit juice concentrate, Dehydrated fruit juice, Fruit juice crystals, Golden syrup, Turbinado, Sorghum syrup, Refiner's syrup, Ethyl maltol, Maple syrup, Yellow sugar
Apart from the obvious:
Sucrose, Maltose, Dextrose, Fructose, Glucose, Galactose, Lactose, High fructose corn syrup, Glucose solids
On another note, what's with all this "kitten" stuff? Someone please explain so I can be in on the joke too. (:-)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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duchessnic wrote: »OK. I would like to point out one thing about the article. Of course, babies will prefer sugar water over plain water. Breast milk is sweet. The one thing about tracking calories that I have learned is that 1200 calories a day doesn't provide room for straight up sugar. If I want to eat anything of good substance, I have to do away with soda, butter, and sugar. Thank God for spices!
Sugar is 15 calories a tsp, butter is 35 calories. It can fit.5 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »duchessnic wrote: »OK. I would like to point out one thing about the article. Of course, babies will prefer sugar water over plain water. Breast milk is sweet. The one thing about tracking calories that I have learned is that 1200 calories a day doesn't provide room for straight up sugar. If I want to eat anything of good substance, I have to do away with soda, butter, and sugar. Thank God for spices!
Sugar is 15 calories a tsp, butter is 35 calories. It can fit.
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Neutral? Lol, when someone presents sugar as a drug, that's not neutral. That's BIAS.@Ty_Floyd I find it frankly amazing how angrily people are reacting to the information you presented quite neutrally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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