March 2017 Running Challenge
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Date,,,,,,,,Miles,,,,,,,,Total
1/3,,,,,,,,,,,,,4.1,,,,,,,,,,,,,4.1
2/3,,,,,,,,,,,,,4.0,,,,,,,,,,,,,8.1
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@hannahbananna80 - there are lots of dog running partners in here! I keep thinking about it but haven't gotten one yet. I have a tiny dog who would be devastated if I left to run with a new dog each morning. I'd feel so guilty I'd probably end up taking them both of them for a walk, and I wouldn't get many running miles in.
4 very slow miles - still not completely recovered from being sick. But, it's better each day.
3/1 - 3.3 miles
3/2 - 4.1 miles
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girlinahat wrote: »a short run this morning. Still not feeling the running love, which is awkward as I need to do 9 miles at the weekend, AND a friend wants to do a long hike, AND the weather looks bad.
All this talk of pacing is useful. I know I need to slow down, although it doesn't FEEL like I need to, but from what I've read, feel isn't always the best indicator. I need to suck it up and do a max HR test, but my HR seems to be around 175 on most runs which doesn't seem good to me!!
But I think time on feet is the most important thing, so I'm trying to aim more for time spent out moving than miles actually hit. So given that I'm struggling with the whole running thing and getting back into it, I'll do a run/walk at the weekend for a couple of hours. so say 9 minutes run, 1 minute walk, repeat 12 times.
and another thing - I did a T'ai Chi class last night - wow. now I hurt!! It looks so gentle!!!!
175 sounds high to me for an easy run, even considering that you're probably a lot younger than I am. So you made me look at some recent results. Here's my 4.4 mile race (4.34 by Garmin) from last Saturday:
Average HR 152, max 167. The max is right at the finish line, in keeping with the fact that my pace was fastest on a small uphill to the finish where I was competing to finish ahead of another guy. You can kind of see the nature of the 2 loop course in the blue pace chart; where I was slow was the other hill in the middle of the loop.
Here's the first part of the long run from the Saturday before, when I was pacing to an 8 minute mile:
Average HR 122, max 138. Because the target was 8:00, I had no choice but to slow down if I got feeling too good. There are also some short stops for traffic, and there was one pause at a water stop. That allowed some recovery time so the HR didn't go as high as it would on a technically continual run.
And here's the second part of the long run from the Saturday before, when I was running solo and finding some interesting hills:
Average HR 130, max 144. By the blue pace chart, I see only 3 stops for traffic; the other pace variability is inverse to HR and correlated with hills. You can see that when I was alone, I ran a little harder on average but still controlled the max effort pretty well; part of why I pace for the training program is that I find it easier to slow myself down when I'm responsible for other people.
Younger runners will have higher HR numbers than mine, but the same pattern should hold. Max HR on an easy run should be below average HR on race day.
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Interesting to read about pace and the need to slow down. For my longer runs (HM and up) I switch my watch to show just HR, and check that to ensure I'm staying around the upper range of easy or the very low side of aerobic; I tend to find that doing that and ignoring pace completely naturally slows me down. The only downside is having to get up even earlier to allow extra time for the runs given the slower pace.
01 - 13.30
02 - 9.87
Total: 23.17 / 2002 -
March goal: stay healthy and continue training for Grandma's.
Nominal mileage goal: 175
3/1- 6.15
3/2- REST
Total: 6.15
Today's notes: Not much to report. Rest day today, and a Dr. Visit tomorrow. My shin is still bugging me some, but it's not always in the same spot, which is confusing. On another note, my knee still hated me, though I'm 90% sure that's not directly running related. I was sitting on my knees, playing with my little guy on Tuesday night, and he pushed me over backwards, man, that did not feel good! My knee pain started not long after that. Ugh, not what I wanted going on right now.0 -
MissMaggieMuffin wrote: »Joanna2012B wrote: »March 1st Ontario Canada...running in shorts!! It was a very wet run today, but very mild!!!
Wow - I'm jealous about the shorts. Also in Ontario Canada, but Northwestern and it's definitely not shorts weather this morning at -11!
Ya winter came back today ...
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I am late to post my goal here due to my work travel. I am getting a run in today before I sit on the plane to head home. I am hoping my work/travel schedule lets up a bit and I can get in at least 100 in March. Going to go for 110 though as a stretch goal.
I will be back later, maybe tomorrow, to catch up on the 5 pages of posts already this month!
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@MobyCarp- That is interesting HR data. thanks for sharing. I am 16 years younger than you and I would say on average my HR is about 13-16 BPM higher than yours for similar effort runs (notice I said EFFORT and not pace. If I was running those paces all the time my HR would be waaay higher)!
@7Lenny7- So, did you go for the short run or not???
@garygse - When I was just getting into the 80/20 program and I needed to slow my pace down, that is what I did as well. It really helped to not know my pace and only focus on my HR. I had a vague idea of my pace because I still showed my time and distance, but it definitely helped me to not focus on it or obsess about it. I don't think you can really make progress until you break out of that mode of thought that your improvement is somehow measured by the pace of each run.
Today is day 7 of no running. Last night I did another P90X3 video, Total Synergystics, which has light weights and lots of movement. The legs held up pretty well through most of it. Then I did 20 minutes on the trainer to shake them out. I did another 30 minutes on the trainer this morning. I have to say, my hamstrings feel looser than they have felt in months (years maybe? Who knows, they have been tight for so long it's hard to remember...). However, the glutes are still sore when sitting. I am anxiously awaiting my PT appointment in the morning. Regardless of what he/she tells me, I know for certain that I will be reducing my weekly mileage and spending more time doing strengthening/ flexibility exercises. At this point, especially with not having a time goal, I think I need to consider that more miles may be doing me more harm than good.3 -
Didn't meet goal in February. No good excuse. Picked up a couple of overtime shifts at work...so was unmotivated afterwards. Good weather though.
It was 51 degrees in Indy yesterday, overcast with a cool breeze and headwind started at mile 3. I was able to run all but mile 8 under 12 minutes, averaged 11:30 per mile, max heart rate at 94 %. Plan on working on endurance and slowing the pace. In for 40 miles this month even though I didn't make 30 last month. Good start at 8 miles yesterday.
8 miles
Goal...40 miles
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Date Miles today - Miles for March
3/1 5 miles - 5
3/2 10 miles - 15
Upcoming races:
UAH 8K - 3/6 <<< 34:33 3 in AG
Oak Barrel HM - 4/2 <<<< 1:38:00 3 in AG
Bridge Street HM - 4/10 <<< 1:36:33 3 in AG
PEO-AVN Team Day 5K - 5/4 <<< 19:10 (2.9 mi) 1 in AG 5 OA
Cotton Row Run 10K - 5/30 << 44:57 PR
Firecracker Chase 10.2 miler 6/25 << 1:20:22 1 in AG & 15 OA
Huntsville Half Marathon - 11/12 << 1:35:55 2 in AG & 25 OA
Rocket City Marathon - 12/10 << 2:44:41
Elkmont Hound Dog Half (unofficial) - 1/21 << 1:46:48 2 OA
Elkmont Hound Dog Half (rescheduled) - 2/18 << 1:41:04 1 in AG & 24 OA
Kentucky Derby Marathon - 4/29
It's my Panera Pounders group run day. Since I was the only one running 10, I separated from the group after mile 2 with a modified route to get my extra mileage in.
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@mobycarp thanks for that. I know 175 is high (and I just looked at my most recent which averaged 162 so not as bad as I thought).
I've never actually TRIED an HR max test, but I'm beginning to think I should. I have worn my HR (chest strap) monitor only during 2 races and just checked the average:
July 2016 - 7.5k race, mostly flat ave. HR 183. Hot and humid day
September 2016 - 10k with 2 evil hills ave HR 177 warm day.
I ought to try wearing the HR monitor more often a) to see the average and b) to just do the damn test. I find the minute I even get to WALKING pace my HR rate can shoot up to 140.
I have a feeling I should be aiming for under 140 bpm for an easy run, having said that, it probably depends on the level of fitness. I'm not superfit like you. For info, I'm 41 and took up running just over a year ago.0 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »
Is it "normal" to have these roving pains while marathon training?
Yes. You are using muscles in ways that you never have before. Soreness and pain is expected. Things will be strengthening over time. This is why I believe that mileage building should be done wayyyy early and give yourself lots of time before race day. I don't like these 18-20 week plans where the goal is to build up mileage (mostly in your long run) with very little wiggle room and timing your longest run just 2 or 3 weeks before race day. I also believe that mileage building should be spread apart throughout the week and not focus mostly on your long runs. Think weekly mileage not just long runs.
Key thing to remember. You do not get stronger from running. You actually get weaker from running. You get stronger from the rest that comes after running. Running is just a stimulus and soreness and pains will be expected if you are pushing the envelope. If not, then you cannot expect any improvement.
The key thing to learn and learn quickly is to understand the difference between a hurt and an injury. A hurt you can work through. An injury you stop and heal up.
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We've decided to spend Easter weekend in Kansas City this year since my daughter's college team will be playing in a national tournament there. My wife gave me three choices for lodging. I surprised her by picking the most expensive option. I didn't bother to tell her that I picked it because it was just a mile away from TRAIL RUNNING!! I've already got a 17 mile route planned.
I don't know why, but I just find this so funny. Enjoy @7lenny7
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Date activity Run dist (mi)
1-Mar Yoga 60 min/onion-pub run 7.8
2-Mar rest
3-Mar rest
4-Mar Ft. Eustis 10K
7.8
Goal (miles) 80
left (miles) 72.2
2017 Races
1/14/2017 Menchville Winter Chill 5K 22:12 1 AG 15 OA
2/11/2017 Run for the Heart 10 mile 1:17:25 1 AG 12 OA
2/18/2017 Gloucester 8K 35:04:00 1 AG 12 OA
3/4/2017 Fort Eustis 10K
4/1/2017 Joe & Sue Moore 5K
4/15/2017 Victory at Yorktown 10K
4/22/2017 Run the DOG Street 5K
5/13/2017 Bull Island 4 miler
5/29/2017 Yorktown Freedom 8K
7/29/2017 Coast Guard Day 5K
8/19/2017 Smart Smiles 5K
9/16/2017 Mulberry Island HM
TBD Poquoson Run with the Bulls 5K
TBD Yorktown Battlefield 10 miler
TBD Run with the Son for Haiti 5K
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3/1 - Hate starting a month on a rest day.
3/2 - 5.0 miles.
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@MNLittleFinn - I agree with what @lporter229 says....
@MNLittleFinn if I remember right, you are doing some speed work and tempo runs while you are building up mileage? That is the risk when doing so. I suggest in my blog that when you are building mileage for a distance that you never ran, focus on that at an easy pace and not on tempo runs and speed work. Once you reach the mileage safely that you can even out to, then you add in tempo runs then after that sprinkle in speed work. What you can continue to do however is those short bursts or strides. 6x40 seconds is the most I personally ever done.
That was my takeaway from Moby's input.MNLittleFinn wrote: »Saturday is supposed to be a FFLR....
I wouldn't even worry about fast finish long runs. Again, you are concentrating on building up your long runs for a distance you never ran before. That enough is stress on your body. The main purpose of the LR for you is to get your body to learn to use fat for energy. FF will push you back into the anaerobic range and force you back to using glycogen which defeats the purpose. When your longer runs become much easier (probably in your next training cycle) then you can do more advanced long runs like FF or tempo intervals within your LR.MNLittleFinn wrote: »yeah....there is that....both my 15 mile runs were GMP-20, so I might be able to go a little faster at race time....LOL, I'm going to work on slowing down, and keep my GMP the same and just decide on the fly (like 18 miles in) if I want to go for something faster on race day.....there's a 4:20 pacer (9:55 pace) that I was looking to get tucked in wit for the race.......all this is based on things so far, and subject to change.
I am commenting on the fly so I keep editing the same post. LOL
For this, DO NOT THINK ABOUT GMP RIGHT NOW. You will go crazy. I was in your exact same shoes when I was training for my first. My initial goal was to finish under 4 hours, then when I noticed great improvements, 3:45, then like 4 weeks before the race I thought I was capable of running a 3:30 and just really messed up my head. I ended up hitting a wall at around mile 18 during my marathon and finished with a 3:50.
Take aways. The worse shape you're in, the faster you will be making improvements especially if you are fairly new to running. Your body will be improving so fast from now till race day that you will go crazy on trying to figure goals and readjust goals based upon how you feel now. Just do the training and worry about goals later on.lporter229 wrote: »Just for reference, I was running easy runs in line with the paces you are running when I was training for my first sub 4, which ended up with a race pace of 8:50.MNLittleFinn wrote: »That's good to know. I'll definitely be slowing it down. My pace goal is pretty reasonable (I think) so I think I'm going to concentrate on keeping all my runs at like 9:45 or slower, just to keep it safe.
Great advise from @lporter229 take away here, know the purpose of each run you are doing. That is Dr. Jack Daniels favorite line. There is this lie spread around that in order to run faster, you must train faster. WRONG!!!! There is a purpose for each run you do. Easy runs build your heart and build up things like mitochondria and capillaries and hemoglobin. Easy runs do that, not fast runs. Long runs for 90 minutes to 2-1/2 hours build up your body's ability to use fat for energy for long distances, and all at an easy pace. Key word... EASY PACE.
You are training for a marathon, not a 5K or a 10K. Your body does not need to learn how to run fast. it needs to learn how to run a steady somewhat easy pace (way slower than threshold pace) for an entire 26.2 miles. Your weekly mileage at an easy pace will do that. Not speed work. Notice the theme.... EASY PACE. The next thing you will add after you can do the weekly mileage is TEMPO for endurance (not speed). Tempo is threshold pace, no faster. But that is after to learn to run the actual distance.Another thing to bear in mind is that the musculo-skeletal system trains more slowly than the cardio-vascular system. As a new runner, it's possible that your heart and lungs could support a 9:00 pace for 26 miles, when your running chain won't. I think that's where I am now; the online calculators say I can run a marathon faster than I think I can. Heart and lungs are not my limiting factor.
Correct. Again you are running 26.2 miles. Weekly miles ensures that you can do this. And why you need to spread your mileage throughout the week and not just the long run. Long runs are only 25-35% of weekly mileage. By running the weekly mileage in proper proportion will make sure that your bones and muscles and tendons and ligaments will be able to handle the longer distances.6 -
Thanks. While I love the speedwork, I've been thinking about taking the mileage from my speed assignments and just running them at E pace instead.@MNLittleFinn - I agree with what @lporter229 says....
@MNLittleFinn if I remember right, you are doing some speed work and tempo runs while you are building up mileage? That is the risk when doing so. I suggest in my blog that when you are building mileage for a distance that you never ran, focus on that at an easy pace and not on tempo runs and speed work. Once you reach the mileage safely that you can even out to, then you add in tempo runs then after that sprinkle in speed work. What you can continue to do however is those short bursts or strides. 6x40 seconds is the most I personally ever done.
That was my takeaway from Moby's input.
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3/1 6.3r 4.2w
Total so far: 6.3r + 4.2w = 10.5 miles
Not sure what happened there, but on Tuesday my knee was in some pain, and it was gone by Wednesday.
I cancelled my shoe order from Amazon because I realized I'd ordered the wrong width. They only had D width in the [ten-eighty] v7's and I need a B. So I put in a new order on the New Balance website last night. It was the same price either way... can't seem to find any deals on the [ten-eighty] no matter where I look.
The hydration belt shipped today, so I'll be getting that soon and I can start testing it out.1 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »
Thanks. While I love the speedwork, I've been thinking about taking the mileage from my speed assignments and just running them at E pace instead.@MNLittleFinn - I agree with what @lporter229 says....
@MNLittleFinn if I remember right, you are doing some speed work and tempo runs while you are building up mileage? That is the risk when doing so. I suggest in my blog that when you are building mileage for a distance that you never ran, focus on that at an easy pace and not on tempo runs and speed work. Once you reach the mileage safely that you can even out to, then you add in tempo runs then after that sprinkle in speed work. What you can continue to do however is those short bursts or strides. 6x40 seconds is the most I personally ever done.
That was my takeaway from Moby's input.
as a serious novice training for a first HM, this is what I am doing - completely ignoring everything any training plan says about speed, and just working on crunching out the miles. (although as we know from my HR comments above, I'm probably going too fast in my runs)
I figure the important thing is building the endurance. My body has never run that far before, so I need to introduce the idea to it. The only caveat, is because my HM will be hilly, I need to do some of my training on that sort of terrain.1 -
Bonked at mile three of last night's group run. Going to walk/jog 5.5 today-- just rest.1
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RespectTheKitty wrote: »Got a question:
This past weekend, a very dear friend of mine passed away due to complications from ALS. He was only 44, same age as I am. I would like to find a race that supports ALS awareness, research, etc. Does anyone know of any such race, preferably in or close to the Chicago area?
My first thought was google? use terms like, 5K or 10K ALS Chicago replace Chicago with Illinois or Indiana or Michigan or wherever far you want to drive for a race.
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This will be a slow & easy return to running. Have had too many injuries over the past 3 or 4 years, so going to be a little smarter!
1/3 - 4.1 km
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RespectTheKitty wrote: »Got a question:
This past weekend, a very dear friend of mine passed away due to complications from ALS. He was only 44, same age as I am. I would like to find a race that supports ALS awareness, research, etc. Does anyone know of any such race, preferably in or close to the Chicago area?
My first thought was google? use terms like, 5K or 10K ALS Chicago replace Chicago with Illinois or Indiana or Michigan or wherever far you want to drive for a race.
Yeah I tried that. It didn't really give me anything I could use. Maybe I didn't use the right terms.0 -
girlinahat wrote: »
ETA: She just texted me back and said "Awwww...<smoochie face emoji>" and then a second text that said "You could do a short run if you wanted to." Now the question is...does she mean it or is this a test??? Ladies...what do you think?
DO NOT DO A SHORT RUN. I repeat, DO NOT DO A SHORT RUN.
Tell her, 'no that's okay honey, I'd rather spend the time with you'
This is a very smart girl in a hat. :-)
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RespectTheKitty wrote: »Got a question:
This past weekend, a very dear friend of mine passed away due to complications from ALS. He was only 44, same age as I am. I would like to find a race that supports ALS awareness, research, etc. Does anyone know of any such race, preferably in or close to the Chicago area?
My first thought was google? use terms like, 5K or 10K ALS Chicago replace Chicago with Illinois or Indiana or Michigan or wherever far you want to drive for a race.
The ALS association primarily does Walk events vs races. http://web.alsa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=WLK_landing&P2P_landing_WALK&_ga=1.131230541.314342029.1488470359#.WLhBgTsrKUl You can search your area if you would like to participate in a walk. I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my mom to ALS.
ETA: Our area tried a race year before last and then cancelled the race part the next year due to poor registration. So ALS races aren't completely unheard of.0 -
2/1 6 (7x supersets: 4 min 8 mpm, 2 min 7:30, repeat)
2/1 4.5 with 6 x strength circuits
10.5/175
Rough getting going this morning, extra tired and hooooongry! Got it done though, and have definitely noticed improvements in strength (i.e. dead lifting more, OK with heavier free weights: 22.5 vs 15 lbs, etc). Going for my longer run tomorrow of around 10 as long as its nice out. Looking forward to something nice & EZ!1 -
@Stoshew71 @girlinahat alright, alright....LOL, I'll start just running slow miles..... I swear, teachers are the worst learners. It really only changes 1 run a week by cutting the speed and making them slow miles.... I'll save the fast running for different training for shorter races1
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Taking it easier this week with upcoming race on Saturday. (It's only 5 miles with accompanying drunken revelry and typically there will be plenty of folks handing out beer along the way and others doing pub stops, but I still want to do somewhat decent).
Yesterday was a group run, with the group I enjoy running with on Mondays and alternate Sundays along with some extra folks. Preview of Saturday's route. I inadvertently PR'd 5K. I did the shorter version (largely because the very high wind was going to be worse on the second loop closer to the river & lake). +3.5 mi, for current total of 3.5 mi for March.
Tonight: weight training day. I intend to go easy so my muscles are recovered for Saturday.
Friday: I'm planning to eliminate the run, and just go for a walk (or a walk with a few short running intervals). (followed by dancing)
Saturday: will be 5 mile race (so no long run this weekend)..maybe some light weight training later on.
Sunday: Group run (I plan to stay with the group distance and not add on to it to get a long run, since I'm also running Saturday).
In total, I should get another 10 miles in this weekend, for a weekly tally of 17-18 miles (4.2 of them in February).
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Bonked at mile three of last night's group run. Going to walk/jog 5.5 today-- just rest.
I hate to be technical here but with all the talk on marathon training and pacing and what not, this is a good time to bring up what "bonking" really means.
Fatigue can be used in a general way to describe you are feeling, but "bonking" or "hitting the wall" is very specific. The reason why this is important in the context of marathon training is because bonking is the term you use when your body runs out of glycogen (or comes close to it) and your brain basically says, that body part is not moving or not moving with the intensity that you want to move it with.
To move a body part, you need to contract a muscle. The energy required to contract a muscle is called ATP. When ATP is used, it turns into ADP and P. So all the other energy in your body is basically being used to replace ADP and P to remake ATP. And that happens in the cytoplasm of your muscle cell with anaerobic methods (very inefficient) and the mitochondria of your muscle with aerobic methods (very efficient). The energy used to remake ATP can either be carbs or fats (and in very rare cases under starvation amino acids).
Carbs are stored in your muscle and liver in the form of glycogen. You have a short supply of glycogen (not enough to power a marathon) and you cannot eat enough during a marathon to replace what you use. So if you rely on carbs too much, you will "bonk". But in order to actually bonk, you have to run for a long time and at a fairly high intensity. Like more than 3 hours at a pace way slower than threshold pace. Unless you fasted before you ran for many hours, then it could be less than 3 hours.
Bringing this back into marathon training. To prevent bonking, you want to teach your body to use fat for energy sooner in the run and for a longer period of time. To do this, you want to run your long run at a slow easy pace. You are more interested in distance and not speed. EASY EASY EASY. If you are breathing hard towards the end of the long run, then start even EASIER and SLOWER. You can fast before a long run to enforce this even more. I run first thing in the morning and eat nothing (just a mug of coffee). Limit what you consume on the run, maybe just water. This will be hard at first and it is hard for a reason. Your body is not used to running like this. Don't eat Gu or drink Gatorade or consume sports beans, ect. Not yet. Later you will. But not when you are teaching your body to use fat for energy on long runs. Learn the "train low race high method" and start it early. because later in your training cycle you will want some long runs where you refuel on the run and find out what works best for you.
Other reasons you may fatigue but not bonking...
Hitting your lactate threshold for too long and you have H+ issues will cause fatigue.
Your muscles experiencing DOMS related issues.
The potassium and sodium exchange through the cell membrane becomes unbalanced.
Heat issues or your blood becoming more saturated (dehydration related).
Bunch more issues.
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This discussion has been closed.
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