"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
Replies
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southernoregongrape wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »This is the kind of cat I have:
Pretty cat. Ours is about 14 years old, blind, and overly fond of treats over her expensive cat food. But I figure she is happy even if overweight and the vet says she is healthy.
That's not actually my cat, although I agree he's pretty. I was referring to the naughty behavior. My naughty cat is the one in my avatar -- Trevor. He's super active and loves to play and is just the right weight. He's 6.
My older cat is 11, Ajax, and he has a weight problem that we are working on. He's also lazy, but adorable and happy.
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If you think that the healthy things in my diary mean I'm not eating what I want? That means you think that NO ONE would ever eat healthy things voluntarily. And what kind of nonsense is that? That's nonsense that leads to falling off the wagon, binging, and yo-yo dieting.
Admittedly, that is not something I ever really thought of in relation to posters here, and probably should when discussing this on forums. I easily get fruit since I enjoy it, but have a harder time getting veggies in sometimes. My husband on the other hand will not eat a fruit or veggie... period....end of story. People like this do exist.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused?
Fwiw, I'm not focused on "eat only junk food". A diet doesn't have to be 100% junk to be unhealthy. I'm not sure I could put a percentage on it, but eating a substantial amount of junk food each day can't be good for you either, and I see lots of posts from people saying they eat that way. (I'm pretty sure I shouldn't clip and post those.)0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused?
Fwiw, I'm not focused on "eat only junk food". A diet doesn't have to be 100% junk to be unhealthy. I'm not sure I could put a percentage on it, but eating a substantial amount of junk food each day can't be good for you either, and I see lots of posts from people saying they eat that way. (I'm pretty sure I shouldn't clip and post those.)
Yeah... no. How do you know what's good for another person?2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused?
Fwiw, I'm not focused on "eat only junk food". A diet doesn't have to be 100% junk to be unhealthy. I'm not sure I could put a percentage on it, but eating a substantial amount of junk food each day can't be good for you either, and I see lots of posts from people saying they eat that way. (I'm pretty sure I shouldn't clip and post those.)
Depends on your definition of junk, which is a pretty arbitrary term. I've had days when that's all I've eaten (take away food from chain outlets for example, or pizza or a ready meal or two) and have hit my macros and a good amount of micros pretty easily. In fact, sometimes my micros are better because I suck pretty hugely at meting those!4 -
@Savithny- good points, brilliantly made. You've articulated an unease with "bad/good foods" I share, but can never explain well. I wonder, have you ever encountered this short story on 'healthy' eating? It was published over a hundred years ago, and yet remains oddly relevant today.1
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lemurcat12 wrote: »So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused?
Fwiw, I'm not focused on "eat only junk food". A diet doesn't have to be 100% junk to be unhealthy. I'm not sure I could put a percentage on it, but eating a substantial amount of junk food each day can't be good for you either, and I see lots of posts from people saying they eat that way. (I'm pretty sure I shouldn't clip and post those.)
Just to help with your question on quoting from other thread:
That in and of itself is not necessarily a violation. We do have a guideline saying not to attack and stalk other posters, so where people run into trouble is they argue with someone in one discussion, then start bringing it up to pick a fight with them in another. It can be a problem if you cant talk without someone hassling you, and can be a problem in the new thread because others dont know the context and whole story when they get thrown in halfway through the arguement, so adds alot of confusion.
But if you think of a good example that applies to this discussion feel free to paraphrase it. Talking about advice you have seen given here makes since as the whole thread is about giving good advice.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Back!
For full disclosure I am in the UK. I will link to each pizza I look at so you can check I have not doctored anything.
First up, Sainsburys own veggie thin crust:
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/sainsburys-thin---crispy-vegetable-pizza-320g
366 calories per half pizza
Ingredients
Pizza Base (Wheat Flour, Water, Rapeseed Oil, Yeast, Salt), Tomato Sauce (Water, Tomato Purée, Cornflour, Sugar, Sunflower Oil, Basil, Salt, White Wine Vinegar, Sundried Tomatoes, Garlic Puree, Garlic Powder, Yeast Extract, Black Pepper, Tomato Paste, Tomato Powder, Cheese Powder (Cows' Milk), Flavouring, Marjoram, Thyme, Oregano, Garlic, Rosemary, Acid: Citric Acid), Mozzarella Cheese (16%) (Cows' Milk), Courgettes (7%), Yellow Peppers (3%), Spinach (3%), Red Onions (3%), Pesto Oil (2.5%) (Rapeseed Oil, Palm Oil, Basil, Sunflower Oil, Garlic Purée, Salt, Black Pepper, Acidity Regulator: Citric Acid).
Next, Dr Oetker pepperoni thin crust, one of the more popular ones I think. Cheap.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/dr-oetker-ristorante-pizza-pepperoni-salame-320g
465 calories per half pizza
Ingredients
Wheat Flour (with Calcium, Iron, Thiamin (B1), Niacin (B3)), Tomato Puree, Pepperoni-Salami (9%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Smoke, Spices, Dextrose, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary)), Mozzarella Cheese (7%), Edam Cheese (7%), Vegetable Oil (Rapeseed, Extra-Virgin Olive Oil), Salami (4%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Spices, Garlic Powder, Onion Powder, Glucose Syrup, Sucrose, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary), Flavouring, Smoke, Dextrose), Yeast, Sugar, Salt, Herbs and Spices, Water, Modified Potato Starch, Chilli Powder, Lemon Juice, Potato Starch, Garlic, Maltodextrin, Dextrose, Pepper Extract
And finally, a Goodfella's chicken. I guess this would be deemed one of the fancier frozen pizzas.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/goodfellas-stonebaked-thin-roast-chicken-pizza-with-italian-style-dressing-365g
484 calories per half pizza
Wheat Flour, Water, Mozzarella (14%) (Milk), Chicken with added Water (13%) (Chicken, Water, Salt, Maize Starch), Tomatoes (9%), Vegetable Oil: Rapeseed, Herb Dressing (2%) (Vegetable Oils: Rapeseed, Palm; Garlic Puree, Parsley, Marjoram, Thyme, Sage, Black Pepper), Cheddar Cheese (1.5%) (Milk), Yeast, Salt, Sugar, Garlic Puree, Starch, Oregano, Basil, Black Pepper, Marjoram, Parsley, Sage, Thyme
Feel free to point out what amongst that is going to cause my untimely death.
This is why I can never work out why, if I logged bread, meat, veges and cheese seperately in my log, people wouldn't blink, but as soon as the bread is round and the rest of the stuff is piled on it and I log it as pizza, people lose their fricken minds. I will never understand why the go-to demonised food is pizza.
Full disclosure - I ran two pizza places over a 5 year period, one of them a chain store and the other a family restaurant style place and I've never seen anything go into the dough that I wouldn't have put in the dough while making it at home for my family. The other ingredients are as straight forward as can be.15 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused?
I believe it would be fine to link to the thread you think contains confusing advice, as the topic of this thread is that, basically.Fwiw, I'm not focused on "eat only junk food". A diet doesn't have to be 100% junk to be unhealthy.
But that's what the OP was talking about, as I illustrated by quoting it.I'm not sure I could put a percentage on it, but eating a substantial amount of junk food each day can't be good for you either, and I see lots of posts from people saying they eat that way. (I'm pretty sure I shouldn't clip and post those.)
If you were able to eat what you needed to cover nutritional bases (I used to log on Chron and I think it's the best site for that), what difference would it make if you also ate a lot of so-called "junk" (which I am reading as not having much but calories). A lot of people (IMO) are confused in that they focus on not eating "bad" foods (which usually would be totally fine) and ignore other things -- like they never eat bread or pasta, but also rarely eat vegetables. IMO, far healthier to get adequate vegetables, protein, fiber, healthy fats, and also some junk food, than to eat a totally "clean" diet (however you define that) and not eat many veg.)
Yes, there are some things that probably should be limited anyway (sodium, at least for some people, IMO sat fat, I avoid transfat, etc.), but for most people that's not going to be an issue if you focus on hitting nutritional goals. I think you are reading people saying "I have chocolate every day" or "I have fast food 5 times a week" to mean they eat "a substantial amount of junk food daily" but that might not be so at all.
The bigger point, though, is that OP was talking about weight loss, NOT nutrition (although I always do bring up nutrition). You can lose weight and not care that much about nutrition, although I wouldn't recommend it. What's wrong or confusing about acknowledging that?
I get a bit the sense that you think that we shouldn't be honest with people because they might use the true information to make choices you think are bad.
When threads are about nutrition, there is a lot of good information about nutrition given (there is often good information about nutrition given in "how do I lose weight" threads too, but for more in depth discussions of what nutrition requires -- a rather debated topic -- you do need to go to threads focusing on that.4 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Back!
For full disclosure I am in the UK. I will link to each pizza I look at so you can check I have not doctored anything.
First up, Sainsburys own veggie thin crust:
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/sainsburys-thin---crispy-vegetable-pizza-320g
366 calories per half pizza
Ingredients
Pizza Base (Wheat Flour, Water, Rapeseed Oil, Yeast, Salt), Tomato Sauce (Water, Tomato Purée, Cornflour, Sugar, Sunflower Oil, Basil, Salt, White Wine Vinegar, Sundried Tomatoes, Garlic Puree, Garlic Powder, Yeast Extract, Black Pepper, Tomato Paste, Tomato Powder, Cheese Powder (Cows' Milk), Flavouring, Marjoram, Thyme, Oregano, Garlic, Rosemary, Acid: Citric Acid), Mozzarella Cheese (16%) (Cows' Milk), Courgettes (7%), Yellow Peppers (3%), Spinach (3%), Red Onions (3%), Pesto Oil (2.5%) (Rapeseed Oil, Palm Oil, Basil, Sunflower Oil, Garlic Purée, Salt, Black Pepper, Acidity Regulator: Citric Acid).
Next, Dr Oetker pepperoni thin crust, one of the more popular ones I think. Cheap.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/dr-oetker-ristorante-pizza-pepperoni-salame-320g
465 calories per half pizza
Ingredients
Wheat Flour (with Calcium, Iron, Thiamin (B1), Niacin (B3)), Tomato Puree, Pepperoni-Salami (9%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Smoke, Spices, Dextrose, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary)), Mozzarella Cheese (7%), Edam Cheese (7%), Vegetable Oil (Rapeseed, Extra-Virgin Olive Oil), Salami (4%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Spices, Garlic Powder, Onion Powder, Glucose Syrup, Sucrose, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary), Flavouring, Smoke, Dextrose), Yeast, Sugar, Salt, Herbs and Spices, Water, Modified Potato Starch, Chilli Powder, Lemon Juice, Potato Starch, Garlic, Maltodextrin, Dextrose, Pepper Extract
And finally, a Goodfella's chicken. I guess this would be deemed one of the fancier frozen pizzas.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/goodfellas-stonebaked-thin-roast-chicken-pizza-with-italian-style-dressing-365g
484 calories per half pizza
Wheat Flour, Water, Mozzarella (14%) (Milk), Chicken with added Water (13%) (Chicken, Water, Salt, Maize Starch), Tomatoes (9%), Vegetable Oil: Rapeseed, Herb Dressing (2%) (Vegetable Oils: Rapeseed, Palm; Garlic Puree, Parsley, Marjoram, Thyme, Sage, Black Pepper), Cheddar Cheese (1.5%) (Milk), Yeast, Salt, Sugar, Garlic Puree, Starch, Oregano, Basil, Black Pepper, Marjoram, Parsley, Sage, Thyme
Feel free to point out what amongst that is going to cause my untimely death.
This is why I can never work out why, if I logged bread, meat, veges and cheese seperately in my log, people wouldn't blink, but as soon as the bread is round and the rest of the stuff is piled on it and I log it as pizza, people lose their fricken minds. I will never understand why the go-to demonised food is pizza.
Full disclosure - I ran two pizza places over a 5 year period, one of them a chain store and the other a family restaurant style place and I've never seen anything go into the dough that I wouldn't have put in the dough while making it at home for my family. The other ingredients are as straight forward as can be.
I am a flipping ethical vegan, and I don't condemn pizza with as much fervour and vehemence as various 'clean' eaters! That tells you something about their rationality.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I get a bit the sense that you think that we shouldn't be honest with people because they might use the true information to make choices you think are bad.
Also, I agree with someone who posted earlier, that there might be a lot of undiagnosed eating disorders represented on the boards. There might also be a lot of people who have been diagnosed, but just aren't mentioning it. I think it's good to bear in mind that the person who's reading advice might be one of those people. Fwiw, I saw someone like that posting on the boards recently. She asked for advice and was told basically to eat whatever she wanted and just monitor calories. Then much further down the thread she mentioned that she had an eating disorder.
Sorry, I'm not able to respond more thoroughly. I appreciate your thoughtful posts though.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I get a bit the sense that you think that we shouldn't be honest with people because they might use the true information to make choices you think are bad.
Also, I agree with someone who posted earlier, that there might be a lot of undiagnosed eating disorders represented on the boards. There might also be a lot of people who have been diagnosed, but just aren't mentioning it. I think it's good to bear in mind that the person who's reading advice might be one of those people. Fwiw, I saw someone like that posting on the boards recently. She asked for advice and was told basically to eat whatever she wanted and just monitor calories. Then much further down the thread she mentioned that she had an eating disorder.
Sorry, I'm not able to respond more thoroughly. I appreciate your thoughtful posts though.
Again, why is this anyone's obligation? *headbang*8 -
I just want to point out that one of the reasons there are such strong reactions to this thread is because of the click-bait title: "'You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit' is true, but it's garbage advice." (No, it's not the dropped "t" that was the problem).
That title in itself is an insult to any MFP poster who has ever said "You can eat whatver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit". It almost doesn't matter what followed in the OP- calling it "garbage advice" was an insult to a huge number of people here who try to help others be successful, myself included (hard to type with this whole pizza in my hands).17 -
kshama2001 wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".
I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.
How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.
Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.
You both illustrate my point perfectly.
If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
Yep, just about everyone...
You make a lot of blanket statements about people that do not seem to mesh with anything I have ever seen. I am sorry, but no, just about everyone is not eating the whole pizza. My experience has been that most people could not even stomach a whole pizza. Maybe I am the minority here, but most people I know only eat a few slices of pizza per meal. The only person I know that can eat that much in one sitting is my brother who happens to be 6'3" 350lbs and is very (and happily) obese.
How many calories in your whole pizzas? Ours have 1280 and when my OH's brother's family is in town, on Pizza Night, several of them will eat a whole pizza and no one but me has less than 5 pieces. (8 pieces in a pizza.)
That's a lot of pizza. When I was a teenager, and had two teenage siblings, so we were eating more to finish our growing. (I had my last little spurt after 18) and we split two large pizzas for 4-5 of us, depending if everyone was home.
A regular weeknight dinner by then was a piece of chicken breast, some pasta roni, green salad, and some frozen veggies.
We were not overweight.0 -
snowflake954 wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".
I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.
How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.
Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.
You both illustrate my point perfectly.
If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
Yep, just about everyone...
Guess what--I live in Italy and people regularly eat a whole pizza, and they are usually skinny too. How do you explain that?
Chances are, the pizzas are smaller than a typical American pizza.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I get a bit the sense that you think that we shouldn't be honest with people because they might use the true information to make choices you think are bad.
Also, I agree with someone who posted earlier, that there might be a lot of undiagnosed eating disorders represented on the boards. There might also be a lot of people who have been diagnosed, but just aren't mentioning it. I think it's good to bear in mind that the person who's reading advice might be one of those people. Fwiw, I saw someone like that posting on the boards recently. She asked for advice and was told basically to eat whatever she wanted and just monitor calories. Then much further down the thread she mentioned that she had an eating disorder.
Sorry, I'm not able to respond more thoroughly. I appreciate your thoughtful posts though.
Can we take a step back? What specifically were you confused about? Advice that you received? Advice that you saw being shared in another thread? The tone of the original post on this thread? The responses that have resulted?
As @lemurcat12 asked, if you could link to some comments that you feel are confusing, and provide the context of the OP of that thread itself, or choose some from here, it would be good.
You seem to think that we are able to be mind readers and know every single detail of what a poster is wanting to know, what hidden medicinal conditions, eating disorders, knowledge base, etc - and that every response should address every one of those things. It's just not feasible. I'm sorry you are confused. Tell us what is confusing you. We will try to sort it out. But please stop suggesting that every new poster on these boards is having the exact same reaction that you are and therefore, the rest of us need to change the tone, content, and overall message we are providing.9 -
I'm sorry but the notion that we have to respond to every enquiry as if the person has an eating disorder but just hasn't disclosed it, whether by choice, deceit or thinking it's not relevant, is a bit extreme. In the same way that if someone comes looking for advice but doesn't disclose a major physical health issue that could result in much different advice isn't my (collective my) responsibility.
If that were the case every post everyone makes would be so long winded and convoluted as to be worthless. We can only give advice based on the facts presented to us and most of us do this as responsibly as we can. We cannot be held liable for undisclosed information.12 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Back!
For full disclosure I am in the UK. I will link to each pizza I look at so you can check I have not doctored anything.
First up, Sainsburys own veggie thin crust:
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/sainsburys-thin---crispy-vegetable-pizza-320g
366 calories per half pizza
Ingredients
Pizza Base (Wheat Flour, Water, Rapeseed Oil, Yeast, Salt), Tomato Sauce (Water, Tomato Purée, Cornflour, Sugar, Sunflower Oil, Basil, Salt, White Wine Vinegar, Sundried Tomatoes, Garlic Puree, Garlic Powder, Yeast Extract, Black Pepper, Tomato Paste, Tomato Powder, Cheese Powder (Cows' Milk), Flavouring, Marjoram, Thyme, Oregano, Garlic, Rosemary, Acid: Citric Acid), Mozzarella Cheese (16%) (Cows' Milk), Courgettes (7%), Yellow Peppers (3%), Spinach (3%), Red Onions (3%), Pesto Oil (2.5%) (Rapeseed Oil, Palm Oil, Basil, Sunflower Oil, Garlic Purée, Salt, Black Pepper, Acidity Regulator: Citric Acid).
Next, Dr Oetker pepperoni thin crust, one of the more popular ones I think. Cheap.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/dr-oetker-ristorante-pizza-pepperoni-salame-320g
465 calories per half pizza
Ingredients
Wheat Flour (with Calcium, Iron, Thiamin (B1), Niacin (B3)), Tomato Puree, Pepperoni-Salami (9%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Smoke, Spices, Dextrose, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary)), Mozzarella Cheese (7%), Edam Cheese (7%), Vegetable Oil (Rapeseed, Extra-Virgin Olive Oil), Salami (4%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Spices, Garlic Powder, Onion Powder, Glucose Syrup, Sucrose, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary), Flavouring, Smoke, Dextrose), Yeast, Sugar, Salt, Herbs and Spices, Water, Modified Potato Starch, Chilli Powder, Lemon Juice, Potato Starch, Garlic, Maltodextrin, Dextrose, Pepper Extract
And finally, a Goodfella's chicken. I guess this would be deemed one of the fancier frozen pizzas.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/goodfellas-stonebaked-thin-roast-chicken-pizza-with-italian-style-dressing-365g
484 calories per half pizza
Wheat Flour, Water, Mozzarella (14%) (Milk), Chicken with added Water (13%) (Chicken, Water, Salt, Maize Starch), Tomatoes (9%), Vegetable Oil: Rapeseed, Herb Dressing (2%) (Vegetable Oils: Rapeseed, Palm; Garlic Puree, Parsley, Marjoram, Thyme, Sage, Black Pepper), Cheddar Cheese (1.5%) (Milk), Yeast, Salt, Sugar, Garlic Puree, Starch, Oregano, Basil, Black Pepper, Marjoram, Parsley, Sage, Thyme
Feel free to point out what amongst that is going to cause my untimely death.
This is why I can never work out why, if I logged bread, meat, veges and cheese seperately in my log, people wouldn't blink, but as soon as the bread is round and the rest of the stuff is piled on it and I log it as pizza, people lose their fricken minds. I will never understand why the go-to demonised food is pizza.
Full disclosure - I ran two pizza places over a 5 year period, one of them a chain store and the other a family restaurant style place and I've never seen anything go into the dough that I wouldn't have put in the dough while making it at home for my family. The other ingredients are as straight forward as can be.
And god forbid they're frozen. The utter horror. Apparently. Which is why I specifically went looking for frozen examples, to see exactly what had happened to make them completely nutritional deserts compared to, I dunno, a sammich with some cheese and salad.5 -
Methinks someone is just trolling. It's really the only thing that makes sense.7
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This seems to have become the pizza thread. I never saw a pizza, let alone ate one until I was an adult. And it is still not one of my favorite foods since I don't like cooked tomatoes. The endless hours scalding, removing the skin, canning as a youth pretty much turned me off.0
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If you are a 135lb woman that's 5'9 which I think was an example somewhere in this thread, and you're only eating at a 500 calorie deficit, no *kitten* you are gonna be full before you run out of calories. You're small, even if you aren't at your "goal" you are going to feel satiated.
Hmm...I'm 5'8" & 137#. I've averaged 2800 calories per day over the last 21 days & have lost 4 pounds. My appetite seems insatiable when I'm lifting regularly. I'm always sad to see the bottom of my calorie bucket & feel like it happens too soon.
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southernoregongrape wrote: »This seems to have become the pizza thread. I never saw a pizza, let alone ate one until I was an adult. And it is still not one of my favorite foods since I don't like cooked tomatoes. The endless hours scalding, removing the skin, canning as a youth pretty much turned me off.
Heh, every year I think I am going to try to can my extra tomatoes. You are trying to talk me out of it, aren't you!
;-)1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »southernoregongrape wrote: »This seems to have become the pizza thread. I never saw a pizza, let alone ate one until I was an adult. And it is still not one of my favorite foods since I don't like cooked tomatoes. The endless hours scalding, removing the skin, canning as a youth pretty much turned me off.
Heh, every year I think I am going to try to can my extra tomatoes. You are trying to talk me out of it, aren't you!
;-)
Did you know you can actually freeze tomatoes whole and pull them out as you need them? I prefer to can them, but if someone didn't want to go to the work of doing that, freezing is an excellent option.5 -
4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »Just to help with your question on quoting from other thread:
That in and of itself is not necessarily a violation. We do have a guideline saying not to attack and stalk other posters, so where people run into trouble is they argue with someone in one discussion, then start bringing it up to pick a fight with them in another. It can be a problem if you cant talk without someone hassling you, and can be a problem in the new thread because others dont know the context and whole story when they get thrown in halfway through the arguement, so adds alot of confusion.
But if you think of a good example that applies to this discussion feel free to paraphrase it. Talking about advice you have seen given here makes since as the whole thread is about giving good advice.
The examples I was thinking of aren't cases where I can confirm that people were telling the truth. I'm not looking at people's diaries and don't know if someone really was eating what they claimed to eat, but I don't think it really matters because the people reading those comments don't know either. When we hear "I ate ___ every day and still lost weight" all we know is what they told us. But to summarize a few, one person claimed, in some kind of Supersize Me way, to eat nothing but fast food and sodas and still lose weight. I read someone saying they eat several pastries each day and little in the way of fruit or vegetables and still lost weight. Someone else banked calories every week for a big splurge on booze and ice cream. Someone else said they ate Pop Tarts and supplements. It wasn't clear whether this was all they were eating, but I could be taken that way. It could also have been a joke, but no way to tell. Some of these people were called out, and some not. I didn't catalog all these, so I don't have links. Just going from my memory of reading them.
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You can post the thread not individual posts.0
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@dfwesq -- I'm still not sure what's confusing, but as @WinoGelato noted above, am waiting for an example of a confusing thread, as that may help. Or, in my recent response to the OP that was detailed I gave an example of advice I would give -- maybe you could share with me how that is confusing and how in one post I should improve on it. My thought is that it's adequate if not more than that, and if someone finds it confusing there is a super easy solution -- ask a follow-up question! That's what I would do, and really what I'd consider basic normal conversation. I mean, options: find something confusing, do I: (a) politely ask a follow-up or tell the poster it is confusing, (b) start a new thread to say the advice is "garbage", or (c) jump into a different thread talking vaguely about garbage advice and agree that posters here commonly give out some advice based on some unidentified thread that you thought was confusing. Which do you think is the most reasonable and helpful response?Also, I agree with someone who posted earlier, that there might be a lot of undiagnosed eating disorders represented on the boards.
I am sometimes concerned that there are, often relating to over-restricting or feeling guilt or shame about eating or eating bad foods or eating enough, etc. I also know a lot of people discuss problems with bingeing, sometimes they just mean overeating, of course, but sometimes it is more than that.
I am not sure what this has to do with the types of questions and responses we are discussing. If someone shows ED signs I don't give advice beyond encouraging him or her to seek help, because I think it can be unhelpful. But does that mean I shouldn't answer a simple, common question asked, like "can I eat junk food and still lose weight?"
Since I gave an example of an answer I would give not that long ago above, perhaps you could tell me how you see my response as particularly dangerous or wrong for someone with an ED who might not be telling us he or she has one, as perhaps MFP would want to create rules to prevent such advice. I'm not seeing the connection now, however.
I should note that I remember being a newbie perfectly well, however. I had pretty strong ideas about "clean" eating (although I never used that stupid term) and there being some unidentified bad thing about eating junk food, and I was in the middle of a no added sugar, paleo way of eating. When I first saw ideas like "eat whatever, even McD, within your calories" I was rather shocked too (even though I knew about calories and all that). And then I thought about it, and thought about what the people were really saying, and decided it made sense to loosen up some. I think that was quite helpful for me. If it initially seemed hard to understand it wasn't when I thought about it a bit more and read a bit more and continued reading about nutrition and so on. It certainly never crossed my mind to chuck everything and eat only junk, as I knew nutrition mattered and I didn't want to eat only junk. Often when people get outraged about such "garbage" advice they seem to misunderstand and think that if you say it's okay to eat what you want (or some "junk") or don't use terms like junk or bad and good for food that you must have no standards at all for nutrition or not care about it. While I agree that's a misunderstanding, I don't think its a result of poor explanations -- I think the people who read it like that have really bad black and white thinking, usually, and assume that the only options are "eat clean" (or "feel bad if you eat junk") or "eat a bad diet" and struggle with the notion that "eat what you like" doesn't mean "without concern about nutrition at all." Or, as we've seen here, maybe for them "yummy food" and "a healthy diet" just seem opposed, which I think is sad, but is not the fault of the advice given or mean that the advice is confusing.5 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »southernoregongrape wrote: »This seems to have become the pizza thread. I never saw a pizza, let alone ate one until I was an adult. And it is still not one of my favorite foods since I don't like cooked tomatoes. The endless hours scalding, removing the skin, canning as a youth pretty much turned me off.
Heh, every year I think I am going to try to can my extra tomatoes. You are trying to talk me out of it, aren't you!
;-)
Did you know you can actually freeze tomatoes whole and pull them out as you need them? I prefer to can them, but if someone didn't want to go to the work of doing that, freezing is an excellent option.
Interesting, I did not know that.
I do want to learn to can, but if I'm again too lazy I will freeze.0 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »You can post the thread not individual posts.
Yes--since the claim is that the advice given as a whole is confusing and unhelpful I think the thread is what's important. Often people don't repeat things already said, so pulling a post out of context would IMO be unfair.2 -
Sigh3
This discussion has been closed.
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