"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt
There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...
But people DO say that. I've seen very few people claiming they've cut out ALL "junk" food. Sure, if you're getting tips from a self proclaimed "clean" eater maybe. But the vast majority of people who give advice on this board, literally say... I save room for it in my macros, I budget my calories for it, I fit it in, I plan for it.
And to add further - when someone is genuinely asking what successful people have done, they open their diaries, or break it down. People hold themselves accountable here, at least the people giving sound advice. There's no cloak and dagger BS going on.
I wouldn't consider an open/closed diary the ultimate barometer of someone's advice, necessarily.
I'd agree with this. I had an open diary when losing, but at maintenance I rarely log, sometimes I log to plan and forget to delete things, and sometimes I log half days. I got some comments about undereating (when my problem was if anything the opposite, LOL) and decided it was dumb to keep it open when not logging consistently, so I did not.
To some extent judgy comments about "processed foods" make me not want my diary commented on either, even though that's probably silly because my idea of processed foods seem to be somewhat different than the people on a high horse about it (I'd say cheese and greek yogurt from Fage and smoked salmon and dried pasta, and canned tomatoes, etc. are obviously processed), but I know I can get overly scrupulous about such things too easily and found myself falling into it again, so closed my diary to stop it.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal.
Until 2012, many fast food chains added 'pink slime' to their burgers. http://www.snopes.com/food/prepare/msm.asp
I stopped eating fast food burgers after seeing the ammonia factory in 'Food, Inc.' I am not interested in eating meat that is processed in such a way that it needs ammonia to make it safe. "This is not a health issue," said Bill Marler, a prominent food safety lawyer. "This is an 'I'm grossed out by this' issue."Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Well I think all ingredients not being equal is what makes homemade burgers better. Better ingredients = better taste.
I agree with you in general that homemade burgers are better than fast food burgers. Had a bite of my OH's BK burger due to threads like this and didn't even seem like the same food to me.
However, in the interest of buying humanely raised beef, I have experimented with various brands of hamburger that comes vacuum-sealed and they range from "can only use in enchiladas" to "am going to give the rest of the package to my mother to feed to her dog."
So, I have to drive a little farther to find hamburger that is both humanely raised and freshly ground, which makes a big difference in taste.
And if I want to drive farther and spend more money I will get a burger made from wagyu ground beef. OMG, is this delish!
So for 5 years that's not the case? I'm talking about current food standards, given they are ever changing and really with ever more critical consumers despite rising obesity, for the better. To say the burger I made at home today (I didn't FYI, maybe later in the week!) is better than one from 5 years ago isn't really a fair comparison to make.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Gosh I suck at rage quitting.
Thank goodness:)5 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Because it tastes yucky lol0 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Wynterbourne wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Cause Domino's doesn't have anything that's even close to my homemade caramelized onions, honey chèvre, smoked almonds, and drizzle of balsamic reduction on top of Alton Brown's pizza dough crust pizza.
That does not look appetizing at all, but that's the beauty of differences. What you may like I may not but I will not say that it isn't food or any of the other things I have heard about various fast food places.
Looks amazingly delicious to me, but one must admit it's not the best photo. Food photography is an art.2 -
diannethegeek wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Gosh I suck at rage quitting.
I tried to flounce once. It didn't stick.
I'm happy about that. I've been here 8 months and I appreciated some of the threads you bumped!1 -
VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits
Who has said there is something wrong with adopting healthier habits? How is that even related to what OP said.
If I "eat what I want within my calories," what I want might be affected by healthy habits I have or am working on.
I wonder if the people who keep assuming that "eat what you want" = unhealthy realize that it's really quite possible to want to eat a healthful diet. Not to just do so because you think it's necessary for weight loss, but because you want to and like the food.
For you eating what you want may mean a healthy diet, but many who are counting calories to lose weight probably wouldn't be here, if healthy items were their first choice. They certainly aren't mine. I didn't read all the comments, since there are 25 pages, but eating what you want, but staying within calories may not equal healthy either. Processed foods have tons of sodium, which is not great for anyone, definitely not for someone with high blood pressure or heart disease.
It takes time to want to eat healthy things for some people. That could mean limiting or eliminating some foods from your diet completely. That is after all the goal, to want to eat healthy. For some people, it is just not realistic to achieve that, if they just ate whatever they want.
Well, I was fat and I actually ate really healthily. I was over liberal with cooking oils sometimes and portions often. So the advice to reduce portions within my calories is totally applicable.
This assumption that fat people don't like healthy food is as ridiculous as the assertion those who advise of moderation never make any mention of nutrition ever.
Great for you to already make healthy choices and only having to worry about portion control. You are an exception to the rule. It is unfortunate that you don't recognize that others may have to learn to make healthy choices as well as portion control. I think it is ridiculous to assume that everyone struggling with weight really like healthy food, just because you did. I don't understand the purpose of debating the merit in making healthy choices or what constitutes healthy choices, since that is why many choose to come to MFP in the first place. For some making healthy choices is easy, for others it is a huge undertaking and may require changing the way they approach food. So for the latter group, eating what they want when they want, might not be the best advice.
Except that's still not necessarily true either. Eating what I want when I want was exactly what helped me to start making healthier choices because while most of the time I ate "junk" when I was at my heaviest, it wasn't really because I enjoyed the food that much, it was stress eating and not really what I wanted. I never really thought about what I wanted to eat. I ate what was there. And on top of that, I know now that I DO have to eat under my calorie goal to lose weight and what I want now is food that is tasty and satiating to me. That's really my only two requirements. I vaguely try and hit my protein goal but I don't stress about it. But to hit those two requirements, I added in some veggies and fruit and lean protein because they make me more satiated and they are still tasty to me. But I'm not also not binging because I can have some chocolate or whatever if I want it. I learned to eat healthier because I'm eating what I want when I want.4 -
I did look through the boards quite a bit, and read through long series of posts without posting. I guess basically it's different for me than for veterans because I am currently a newbie here, so I know the effect that posts have on new people who are reading them. I'm just giving that perspective. Several other relatively new members have made similar comments to mine (ETA: I just reviewed the discussion and I count at least 5), so I know I'm not the only one. I'm genuinely trying to be helpful and give a perspective that people may not have thought about since they haven't been in our shoes for a while. I hope that answers the question and is helpful.Tacklewasher wrote: »Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.
Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.
How, or why was it different for your?
Well...I am not a newbie but neither am I a member of the veterans but here is what I think.
I don't depend on others to tell me much...I research. It is after all my weight and health so I don't depend on an internet stranger for advice.
What I did use the forums for when I first came here was a guide in to what to research. I researched it all...different diet plans...ways of eating...exercising...etc...etc.
I eventually found a hand full of people that I fairly well trusted their advice but even then I still...researched. I also experimented a lot...tried different things, foods, types of exercise until I found what works for me.
This may sound unkind but if you just take advice from some random person on the internet without doing your own research then what do you expect? People need to put in the work to accomplish their goals and not depend on other people to tell them what or how to do it...my opinion only.
The other thing is...I don't look for approval on how I eat or whether I moderate or eliminate. It is after all my choice. If I make a wrong choice I have no one to blame but myself and I can always change those wrong choices.
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diannethegeek wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Gosh I suck at rage quitting.
I tried to flounce once. It didn't stick.
I remember.
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this made me chuckle, it's a sweary word in Scottish so should technically have the *kitten* treatment.
Is now the time to disclose I ate 4 cream cakes tonight within my calories?5 -
I get where the OP is coming from. You can lose if you eat what you want and stay within your calorie goals, but do you have the will power to eat what you want within moderation. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. As an emotional eater, some foods are very difficult for me to have in moderation. So I have to recognize, that when I am going through stressful times, I will likely not eat just 3 cookies. So best to avoid them altogether.
Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits, which may include limiting or eliminating foods that have very little health benefits. Better to do it now, then later when you are faced with many ailments that you have no choice. My mother has congestive heart failure and I'm her caretaker. She is allowed, 2000 mg of sodium a day, that virtually eliminates all processed foods. She is also diabetic so sugar must also be monitored. It isn't easy preparing her food. She still wants crap, but it isn't an option for her now. She is not overweight, but has been at different points in her life. As someone coming from a family with a history of heart disease and diabetes, it is about more than just calories.
Your view is different from OP though because you are being reasonable. OP simply said it is a lie and impossible. No. It may be impossible for the OP, but some people have better self-control. It works best for some of us. Everyone is different. You were polite and reasonable, showing both sides.1 -
Verity1111 wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Because it tastes yucky lol
Meh *shrug* To each their own. Different strokes and all that jazz.2 -
Sorry, but you lost me "not all people". Please do not try to speak for others when you clearly do not know what situation they are coming from to start their weight loss journey. That assumption is a logical fallacy that may be harmful to others just starting out. Your opinion is from a place of frustration, and a lack of experience with self-control.
Admittedly, I laughed at the notions presented in the forums regarding calorie goals, "if it fits", calorie deficit, and even logging food based on its actual weight, and not the whole "1 pack" crap. It seemed almost too simple. But, after finally putting two and two together regarding how and what I ate, and how the calorie deficit affected my weekly weight, I'm convinced it works for me.
Since joining MFP, I've finally lost close to 20 lbs. eating food I enjoy (home cooked/baked goods, fresh fruits and veggies, the occasional sweet). I've also recognized there are foods I do not need or want easy access to because they are simply not worth the calories.
For the past 10 years, I've weighed the same, with some fluctuations trying restrictive and disordered approaches to food. I was also raised to think that dieting meant heavy restrictions and complicated plans. This background meant I had absolutely no mental tools to become successful in being healthy.
While we are learning, we may go through resistance and anger towards new ways of doing things and thinking about ourselves. But, we have the opportunity to grow and learn even more. There are many diet plans discussed in the forum boards. If you feel something you are doing is better, then that's great. Share your tips and experiences without trashing existing advice provided to everyone. If you are logging meals on the website, you'll probably eventually catch on to the pattern in regards to a calorie deficit. Give it some time and good luck!13 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Wynterbourne wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Cause Domino's doesn't have anything that's even close to my homemade caramelized onions, honey chèvre, smoked almonds, and drizzle of balsamic reduction on top of Alton Brown's pizza dough crust pizza.
That does not look appetizing at all, but that's the beauty of differences. What you may like I may not but I will not say that it isn't food or any of the other things I have heard about various fast food places.
Looks amazingly delicious to me, but one must admit it's not the best photo. Food photography is an art.
So is cooking lol.4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal.
Well I think all ingredients not being equal is what makes homemade burgers better. Better ingredients = better taste.
Isn't that the Papa Johns slogan?
It is, but it's still true.
Noooo! It's "Better Ingredients, Better Pizza - Papa John's." :P0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Until 2012, many fast food chains added 'pink slime' to their burgers. http://www.snopes.com/food/prepare/msm.asp
As that Snopes link should make clear, "pink slime" is simply beef that's difficult to separate from the carcass by other means. It's actually good, old-fashioned economy, harking back to the days when people would make sure to use the entire animal they slaughtered, wasting nothing.
Calling it "pink slime" makes it sound unappetizing but in essence it's no different from other ground beef, although since its fat composition is different it's going to have a different flavor profile.12 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
The truth about what people are really eating. Not falsely claiming they eat WHATEVER they want, WHENEVER they want...
No one is falsely claiming that. As everyone keeps saying WHATEVER we want WHENEVER we want WITHIN our calorie goals. You keep leaving that out. Although some days it is literally whatever I want.3 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
The truth about what people are really eating. Not falsely claiming they eat WHATEVER they want, WHENEVER they want...
I eat whatever I want, whenever I want, as long as it fits in my calorie goal. That is my truth. And so far I have found it works for me. I am not sure how anyone can claim my truth is not the truth, at least for me.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »I am 44 yrs old and spent most of my life in NY, one of the capitals of pizza, and I don't know anyone who would eat a whole pie in one sitting. We order 2 pies (16 slices) for 5 adults and a toddler and usually have 4 or 5 slices left to eat cold for breakfast the next day.
NY slices are famously big. How many calories per slice?
I am wondering how people would even know. I mean sure, if I made it, but with something I got at a local restaurant I have no clue how many calories. I'd normally estimate 1000 for a meal out with pizza and salad and I lost on schedule in weeks where I had pizza.
One piece of Lou Malnatis (which I have sometimes and had more when I was not paying attention to calories) is 232 (the small pizza, a Lou). I would normally have 2-3 pieces. That's a perfectly sensible meal. The problem is that I might also split a dessert or an appetizer or have too much for other meals, and those are things I don't do now.
A piece of deep dish Lou Malnati's is 232 calories? I would have thought any deep dish Chicago style pizza would be much higher. A slice of Domino's pizza is roughly 200 calories, then plus whatever toppings someone adds...
Yeah, I was seriously shocked when I saw that (and am a little skeptical), although the pieces aren't that large. Giordano's is more like 500, but cut bigger--I used to have 2 slices of that back in the day, would typically have one now, although maybe with a thin slice too (I don't really like Giordano's enough to justify the calories but it's an easy no meat option so we get it at work at least a couple of Lenten Fridays for Friday work lunch).
(My counts are both no meat since that's what I prefer with deep dish, usually.)
Lou's varies on the size of pizza since it affects the size of the slices. (I tend to assume more when I have Pequod's, more like Giordano's, but sadly they don't have calorie counts.)2 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Wynterbourne wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Cause Domino's doesn't have anything that's even close to my homemade caramelized onions, honey chèvre, smoked almonds, and drizzle of balsamic reduction on top of Alton Brown's pizza dough crust pizza.
That does not look appetizing at all, but that's the beauty of differences. What you may like I may not but I will not say that it isn't food or any of the other things I have heard about various fast food places.
Looks amazingly delicious to me, but one must admit it's not the best photo. Food photography is an art.
So is cooking lol.
Indeed. But any dish can be made to look unappetizing if it's photographed poorly, including yours. And nearly all amateur food photography is poor.2 -
To me the bottom line is simply...you have to find what works best for you! I know that if I forbid or totally ban some foods, I will eventually give up. But by figuring out how to include them in a healthy diet, I have lost 85 pounds and am continuing to work at it. I'm at the stage now where it is coming off very slowly (I'm short and have just 20 pounds to go), but I am happy and most importantly...have not gained anything back. For some people, it may be that they simply cannot include some foods in their diet and for others, we can control how much of other foods we eat to enjoy our favorites. I will say that I do like some vegetables and fruits now, better than I did before!2
-
VintageFeline wrote: »
this made me chuckle, it's a sweary word in Scottish so should technically have the *kitten* treatment.
Is now the time to disclose I ate 4 cream cakes tonight within my calories?
I put cinnamon chips and ovaltine powder in my oatmeal this morning, and just finished 2 Peeps Oreos and a Cherry Coke Zero. My tongue is pink, and I can feel the ailments growing inside of me. It kind of tickles
7 -
VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits
Who has said there is something wrong with adopting healthier habits? How is that even related to what OP said.
If I "eat what I want within my calories," what I want might be affected by healthy habits I have or am working on.
I wonder if the people who keep assuming that "eat what you want" = unhealthy realize that it's really quite possible to want to eat a healthful diet. Not to just do so because you think it's necessary for weight loss, but because you want to and like the food.
For you eating what you want may mean a healthy diet, but many who are counting calories to lose weight probably wouldn't be here, if healthy items were their first choice. They certainly aren't mine. I didn't read all the comments, since there are 25 pages, but eating what you want, but staying within calories may not equal healthy either. Processed foods have tons of sodium, which is not great for anyone, definitely not for someone with high blood pressure or heart disease.
It takes time to want to eat healthy things for some people. That could mean limiting or eliminating some foods from your diet completely. That is after all the goal, to want to eat healthy. For some people, it is just not realistic to achieve that, if they just ate whatever they want.
Well, I was fat and I actually ate really healthily. I was over liberal with cooking oils sometimes and portions often. So the advice to reduce portions within my calories is totally applicable.
This assumption that fat people don't like healthy food is as ridiculous as the assertion those who advise of moderation never make any mention of nutrition ever.
Great for you to already make healthy choices and only having to worry about portion control. You are an exception to the rule. It is unfortunate that you don't recognize that others may have to learn to make healthy choices as well as portion control. I think it is ridiculous to assume that everyone struggling with weight really like healthy food, just because you did. I don't understand the purpose of debating the merit in making healthy choices or what constitutes healthy choices, since that is why many choose to come to MFP in the first place. For some making healthy choices is easy, for others it is a huge undertaking and may require changing the way they approach food. So for the latter group, eating what they want when they want, might not be the best advice.
I don't think anyone is debating the merit of making healthy choices...I'd say the vast majority of us make healthy choices and have had to make changes to our diets.
That said, I've been here 4.5 years roughly...I've never seen anyone go the all or nothing route and have long term success...they're usually "on and off the wagon" and make themselves miserable and ultimately do nothing in the end...
I think it's also pretty interesting that the vast majority of people posting here about including things in moderation and taking a bit more of a relaxed dietary approach also happen to be long term veterans of the site and have had a lot of success both in losing weight and maintaining weight long term...but yeah, we don't know what the hell we're talking about and just give *kitten* advice.9 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Wynterbourne wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Cause Domino's doesn't have anything that's even close to my homemade caramelized onions, honey chèvre, smoked almonds, and drizzle of balsamic reduction on top of Alton Brown's pizza dough crust pizza.
That does not look appetizing at all, but that's the beauty of differences. What you may like I may not but I will not say that it isn't food or any of the other things I have heard about various fast food places.
Looks amazingly delicious to me, but one must admit it's not the best photo. Food photography is an art.
So is cooking lol.
Indeed. But any dish can be made to look unappetizing if it's photographed poorly, including yours. And nearly all amateur food photography is poor.
Or it could just be poorly cooked. How does one really know? *shrug* Either way not my cup of tea.0 -
I thought "you" was referring to us, the new people who were new and might be confused. Thus all the talk about what advice people were going to be giving us. E.g.,diannethegeek wrote: »It absolutely did come across that way to me. And if the OP wasn't aimed at me, the veterans, or anyone else participating in this thread, then maybe they shouldn't have used the word "you" quite so often.
I thought that's what he was getting at, anyway.So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
But for many of us it IS helpful.1 -
VintageFeline wrote: »
this made me chuckle, it's a sweary word in Scottish so should technically have the *kitten* treatment.
Is now the time to disclose I ate 4 cream cakes tonight within my calories?
Pish!!! I had pecan pie for breakfast(homemade) and im good too!3 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...
You started with the technicalities about "whatever", I am just building off of that. But basically with the standard on language you wanted set there is no way to give good advice.
Honestly I find your example of technically correct sound advice confusing still. My truth is that I probably do not eat what most consider "good food" on a daily basis. The problem here being what is the definition of "good food"is. Yet another thing that varies widely. But I consider a wider variety of foods good than most so I am content with my intake.2 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
this made me chuckle, it's a sweary word in Scottish so should technically have the *kitten* treatment.
Is now the time to disclose I ate 4 cream cakes tonight within my calories?
Pish!!! I had pecan pie for breakfast(homemade) and im good too!
No really, you've all got to stop using pish instead of just psh without the "i" because I am reading it so very differently to you.
"Variation of piss, most usually used in the north (particularly Scotland).
stop talking pish
ach, pish!
what a bundle of pish."4 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
crust is sub par...sauce is meh...their sausage is weird
That's what she said.
I actually thought that when I was writing it...Lol...3
This discussion has been closed.
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