"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
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For you eating what you want may mean a healthy diet, but many who are counting calories to lose weight probably wouldn't be here, if healthy items were their first choice. They certainly aren't mine. I didn't read all the comments, since there are 25 pages, but eating what you want, but staying within calories may not equal healthy either. Processed foods have tons of sodium, which is not great for anyone, definitely not for someone with high blood pressure or heart disease.
It takes time to want to eat healthy things for some people. That could mean limiting or eliminating some foods from your diet completely. That is after all the goal, to want to eat healthy. For some people, it is just not realistic to achieve that, if they just ate whatever they want.
Well, I was fat and I actually ate really healthily. I was over liberal with cooking oils sometimes and portions often. So the advice to reduce portions within my calories is totally applicable.
This assumption that fat people don't like healthy food is as ridiculous as the assertion those who advise of moderation never make any mention of nutrition ever.8 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
If you are not going to depict the true story then you shouldn't be providing advice to others that need it....
Who's version of "truth"? No matter what anyone posts, someone's always going to disagree, and to say posters have an "obligation" to respond a certain way is certainly contrary to any message board I've ever seen.5 -
I will get the numbers for you, and let you know, but I can assure you it is nowhere near that much. Then again, I do not pile toppings on top of mine. And, in that case, that would make you the exception, not the rule. As you can see from the many people that have posted after me, very few people seem to eat whole pizzas in one sitting. Even so, that would equate to 1280, not 1600 as was mentioned.
People on this thread talking about eating moderate amounts of pizza are talking about their strategy now that they are working to lose or maintain weight. I bet if we asked how many pizza calories they consumed when they were gaining weight the answers wouldn't be as moderate.3 -
I agree with you. I think this makes about six of us relative newcomers who read the OP's post one way, while a lot of veterans read it differently. I hope it's helpful to see that even though one interpretation seems unreasonable to a veteran, this is exactly how a lot of newcomers interpret it. Unreasonable or not, it's reality. I mention it just as something to remember.diannethegeek wrote: »... I'm honestly not trying to be snarky here, but I feel like some people and I read completely different posts here.
I know several people interpreted my posts as trashing everyone's efforts. That's not my intention and I hope it didn't come across that way to you. I'm grateful for the effort everyone has put in to try to help us. I don't think that's what most of the other newcomers think either. We (I think) don't read the OP as aimed at you or even at veterans - just at general advice-givers.The OP reads to me less as an attempt to help people and more as a series of digs at those of us giving advice on the forum when the OP doesn't seem to do it themselves.
Anyway, thanks for your helpful posts and advice!
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I am 44 yrs old and spent most of my life in NY, one of the capitals of pizza, and I don't know anyone who would eat a whole pie in one sitting. We order 2 pies (16 slices) for 5 adults and a toddler and usually have 4 or 5 slices left to eat cold for breakfast the next day.
NY slices are famously big. How many calories per slice?0 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
The truth about what people are really eating. Not falsely claiming they eat WHATEVER they want, WHENEVER they want...
I mean this with respect, how do you know what I want and when I want it? If I say I eat what I want why can that not be a true statement.
Yesterday I wanted a huge salad for lunch and tacos for dinner.
Today I'm making potato salad with a veggie chicken patty. I have zero clue what I'm having for dinner because I plan just as I'm looking in my pantry or fridge and I pick what I want in that moment.
Two days ago I wanted ice cream but I'd been hiking for 3 days in a row and had a net deficit of 900 calories so I had room to go to the store and get a pint. Halo Top pint is 280 for salted caramel.
I do not have chips, saltines, cookies or ice cream in my house because I do not want them in my house. I want to eat these things once in awhile.
Again respectfully why is this not true? I truly eat what I want when I want.
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Not all burger places are Nation's (or Five Guys or Smashburger or...) just like not all pizzerias are huge national chains with undertrained staff following factory-style recipes, and not all pizzas are frozen rock-solid in a supermarket.
Just goes to show how, in so much of the country, what I would consider to be "good pizza" is so utterly lacking. No wonder so many folks think pineapple is a valid topping.
Hey I resemble that remark as the original pro-pineapple person in this thread
However, I will freely admit I live nowhere near authentic pizza so my expertise in the matter is sorely lacking. I just eat what tastes good (to me)! 1 -
Chances are, the pizzas are smaller than a typical American pizza.
They're roughly 13-14" round. I kid you not. We go out for pizza once or twice a week (my husband loves it, and is skinny) and the Italians are all chowing down on a whole pizza + starters + dessert. They are thin.2 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »
The true story comes out in a collective collaboration of posts and statements.
Exactly...2 -
4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
People on this thread talking about eating moderate amounts of pizza are talking about their strategy now that they are working to lose or maintain weight. I bet if we asked how many pizza calories they consumed when they were gaining weight the answers wouldn't be as moderate.
I honestly didn't eat that much pizza when I was over-weight and I've never eaten a whole large+ pizza. A whole personal pizza sure, but one meant for four people? Nope. Never happened.
You do realize something as simple as 50 calories over maintenance makes you gain weight right? Not everyone who is fat is fat because they are throwing pizzas and ice cream in the blender and sucking down four a day. Just going from a retail job to a desk job without reducing your calorie intake to compensate can cause you to gain. Not all overweight people shovel in food.4 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...
But people DO say that. I've seen very few people claiming they've cut out ALL "junk" food. Sure, if you're getting tips from a self proclaimed "clean" eater maybe. But the vast majority of people who give advice on this board, literally say... I save room for it in my macros, I budget my calories for it, I fit it in, I plan for it.6 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
NY slices are famously big. How many calories per slice?
The pizzas they make for selling by the slice are typically bigger than the largest size they'll make to order.snowflake954 wrote: »
They're roughly 13-14" round. I kid you not. We go out for pizza once or twice a week (my husband loves it, and is skinny) and the Italians are all chowing down on a whole pizza + starters + dessert. They are thin.
That's actually a very small pizza, unless you really meant across. But I'm sure the very thin crust has a little something to do with it too. (I'm familiar with this style of pizza because there's a restaurant in my area that specializes in actual Neapolitan pizza. Folks are often surprised by what they get.)0 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...
I've been here 4.5 years roughly...I see this being said all of the time. I say it myself.
Not every single post is going to dive into all kinds of detail, nor should they have to. People can also exercise common sense...and look at other posts.6 -
But people DO say that. I've seen very few people claiming they've cut out ALL "junk" food. Sure, if you're getting tips from a self proclaimed "clean" eater maybe. But the vast majority of people who give advice on this board, literally say... I save room for it in my macros, I budget my calories for it, I fit it in, I plan for it.
And to add further - when someone is genuinely asking what successful people have done, they open their diaries, or break it down. People hold themselves accountable here, at least the people giving sound advice. There's no cloak and dagger BS going on.
ETA: I am in, no way shape or form, downgrading or criticizing anyone's contributions who keep their diary private. I just picked a common parameter/talking point to further what I was trying to say: that people on here are not hiding or lying or covering up how they do things. Diary is a common factor for us all on MFP and that's why my mind went to that example first.2 -
The pizzas they make for selling by the slice are typically bigger than the largest size they'll make to order.
That's actually a very small pizza, unless you really meant across. But I'm sure the very thin crust has a little something to do with it too. (I'm familiar with this style of pizza because there's a restaurant in my area that specializes in actual Neapolitan pizza. Folks are often surprised by what they get.)
I mean 14" across and a naples pizza is not a thin crust.2 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...
Mostly time and energy. We spend our time on these boards in the way that we choose. For instance, I'm only spending my time to lurk and post in this one thread (which I should really get out of anyway). I have no obligation to enter into other threads and provide advice. If I do enter into them, I get to choose how long I stay, how many questions I answer, and how much energy I put into composing my replies. Some days I have the energy to compose longer replies than others. If you have endless energy to post, I'm super glad. But I do not.
It is time consuming to help even one newbie. There's a reason I don't take friend requests anymore. There's a reason I don't go back to check on old posts to see if a newbie has gotten around to answering my questions two days later (about 50% of them won't come back to their posts at all). Posting copy/paste or quick advice and hoping that others will fill in the blanks if I've left something out (or if there's more information in a second thread or post history, etc). let's me see and respond to more posts than spending all of my time with one person who may not even come back to see my reply.
Honestly, I cannot fathom how you have the energy to care THIS MUCH about how the rest of us reply here. You have the option to follow us around and fill in the blanks on as many posts as you want to. If we have an obligation to post exactly what you want us to post, then what obligation do you have to this community? What obligation to newbies have to it? Why are the veterans here, who've explained this over and over again in this very thread directly to you, the only people you get riled up enough to go after to fulfill this mythical quest of providing the perfect piece of advice for each and every poster who comes here? We aren't your guru. We have no obligation to teach you the meaning of life. You do have to do some of the work on that yourself.22 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
The truth about what people are really eating. Not falsely claiming they eat WHATEVER they want, WHENEVER they want...
I do eat whatever I want whenever I want. And it's mostly *gasp* good for me. To be honest, I was never a huge junk food eater. I was (and still am) an emotional eater, a boredom eater, an introvert who has a hard time with small talk and gravitates to the food table so I'm not just standing around looking lost. I put on weight by not controlling portions, by assuming that most desserts and high-calorie options were evil, evil, evil and therefore, once I cracked and indulged myself, the day was already ruined and I might as well eat, drink, and be merry (merry until I realized I'd gone back for fourths at the buffet table anyway).
So now, I do eat whatever I want, whenever I want, within my calories. I plan my indulgences. Sometimes I have a lighter lunch to make room for cake. Sometimes I do 45 minutes on a ski machine or take a two-hour walk. Sometimes I do both. And there are some foods I can't moderate unless I don't have the option of going back for more. (I'll go to a bulk store and weigh out 23 grams of jelly beans, because if I buy a big bag, even if I portion it out, I know that I will keep grabbing more servings. If all I have in the house is 23 grams, the temptation is gone.) But the mindless nibbling and grazing, the 'Hey, look! Fruit and nuts are healthy so I can have three of these cranberry-almond-oat-and-honey bars! And Terra chips are from root vegetables, so they've got to be low-cal too, right?!' delusion? That's gone. It takes a bit of juggling to have room for treats, and sometimes it means deciding that the treat isn't worth it, or that I won't have as much of it as I thought. But I hope I've finally stopped demonizing foods. Indulgences aren't evil. Treats don't have to be cheats. And I've lost 44 lbs this way and still going.5 -
Lol, guess you didn't ace chemistry class. You do know they've used SALT (yes even "organic" sea salt) as a preservative for CENTURIES now?
You CAN eat whatever you want to lose weight. It's NOT the best approach, however the issue that arises from the diet and fitness industry is that anything not "clean" or "unprocessed" should be avoided at all costs. And that's just not the truth. Again, there are so many other industrialized countries that consume processed products and DON'T have an weight or obesity issue in their populations. In fact, I'll even say that once many of them migrate to the US, they GAIN weight within the first 5 years just due to OVEREATING.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Actually I listed a whole list of chemicals found in food following that post to back up my claim. There are natural preservatives as well, but there are a host of non-natural ones that you will find way more prevalent throughout your pantry. You just happened to miss my post.
And actually I got A's in all my science classes
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My profile picture is obviously lying then ... I eat what I want - not all the time I grant you, but if I fancy chocolate I eat it, if we fancy Chinese we go for it ... I love food and I eat plenty of it, my diet is quite rich in protein and fibre, it is also moderately clean (it kind of has to be as I'm lactose & wheat intolerant and suffer from fructose malabsorption) but I definitely don't avoid certain foods because they're deemed high in fat or carb rich - if I like it, I eat it in moderation ... I'm partial to red wine and dark chocolate and they're both in my diet several times a week ... Like I said, my profile picture is obviously lying ... Oh and my bloods have also come back from the hospital saying I'm in great shape - medically fitter than I've ever been, but the camera is obviously lying ... So were Buckfizz, they sang that their camera never lied - they were clearly wrong ... !!1
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Carlos_421 wrote: »
I've spent a lot of time on these forums and participated in countless of these discussions. I've never once noted a single instance of anyone stating or even insinuating that frequency isn't a valid method of moderation.
I have seen people make straw man claims like yours that "moderators" argue you should eat some "junk food" everyday. I've also seen those claims frequently denied.
I did not argue about what people say is a "valid" form of moderation. I said what I have seen a lot of. You are arguing what hasn't been disputed. Moderation means something different to me than it does to you, maybe it means something for you that it does not mean for that guy over there. I even said, "Moderation comes in many forms." And you "challenge" me to decide who you would consider a frequent enough poster and then quote them so I can then receive a warning from the moderators for doing so? NO THANKS! I take you back to my previous comment. GO SEARCH FOR THIS YOURSELF. You will only read into any comment what you choose the same as everyone else here. So yeah. Go forth and read every comment on every post and let me know what you dig up.1 -
Just to be clear, there may be reasons not related to accountability why people don't open up their diaries. (Not that you were saying otherwise.)And to add further - when someone is genuinely asking what successful people have done, they open their diaries, or break it down. People hold themselves accountable here, at least the people giving sound advice. There's no cloak and dagger BS going on.
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I'd also like to note, that due to changes in my health and circumstances that lead to me needing to lose weight (no longer just wanting) mean I actually eat more fast food and take away than I did before. No hungrier even though I'm eating quite a bit less. Go figure.1
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I agree with you. I think this makes about six of us relative newcomers who read the OP's post one way, while a lot of veterans read it differently. I hope it's helpful to see that even though one interpretation seems unreasonable to a veteran, this is exactly how a lot of newcomers interpret it. Unreasonable or not, it's reality. I mention it just as something to remember. I know several people interpreted my posts as trashing everyone's efforts. That's not my intention and I hope it didn't come across that way to you. I'm grateful for the effort everyone has put in to try to help us. I don't think that's what most of the other newcomers think either. We (I think) don't read the OP as aimed at you or even at veterans - just at general advice-givers.
Anyway, thanks for your helpful posts and advice!
It absolutely did come across that way to me. And if the OP wasn't aimed at me, the veterans, or anyone else participating in this thread, then maybe they shouldn't have used the word "you" quite so often.6 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Actually I listed a whole list of chemicals found in food following that post to back up my claim. There are natural preservatives as well, but there are a host of non-natural ones that you will find way more prevalent throughout your pantry. You just happened to miss my post.
And actually I got A's in all my science classes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature5 -
And to add further - when someone is genuinely asking what successful people have done, they open their diaries, or break it down. People hold themselves accountable here, at least the people giving sound advice. There's no cloak and dagger BS going on.
I wouldn't consider an open/closed diary the ultimate barometer of someone's advice, necessarily.
I was diary stalked on here once under my original account and have no desire to go through that nonsense again. I'm happy to discuss what I eat, but I like to keep my diary closed because that keeps me more accountable to me as well. I'm more likely to keep accurate records if it's private.
Other people, some who have been known to give really great advice, also keep their diaries private. I think you can usually discern good advice from bad after reading around for a while and getting a feel for who generally makes sense most of the time.
I know that's how I learned a lot when I first started posting here a few years ago.11 -
I thought "you" was referring to us, the new people who were new and might be confused. Thus all the talk about what advice people were going to be giving us. E.g.,diannethegeek wrote: »It absolutely did come across that way to me. And if the OP wasn't aimed at me, the veterans, or anyone else participating in this thread, then maybe they shouldn't have used the word "you" quite so often.
I thought that's what he was getting at, anyway.So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
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estherdragonbat wrote: »
I do eat whatever I want whenever I want. And it's mostly *gasp* good for me. To be honest, I was never a huge junk food eater. I was (and still am) an emotional eater, a boredom eater, an introvert who has a hard time with small talk and gravitates to the food table so I'm not just standing around looking lost. I put on weight by not controlling portions, by assuming that most desserts and high-calorie options were evil, evil, evil and therefore, once I cracked and indulged myself, the day was already ruined and I might as well eat, drink, and be merry (merry until I realized I'd gone back for fourths at the buffet table anyway).
So now, I do eat whatever I want, whenever I want, within my calories. I plan my indulgences. Sometimes I have a lighter lunch to make room for cake. Sometimes I do 45 minutes on a ski machine or take a two-hour walk. Sometimes I do both. And there are some foods I can't moderate unless I don't have the option of going back for more. (I'll go to a bulk store and weigh out 23 grams of jelly beans, because if I buy a big bag, even if I portion it out, I know that I will keep grabbing more servings. If all I have in the house is 23 grams, the temptation is gone.) But the mindless nibbling and grazing, the 'Hey, look! Fruit and nuts are healthy so I can have three of these cranberry-almond-oat-and-honey bars! And Terra chips are from root vegetables, so they've got to be low-cal too, right?!' delusion? That's gone. It takes a bit of juggling to have room for treats, and sometimes it means deciding that the treat isn't worth it, or that I won't have as much of it as I thought. But I hope I've finally stopped demonizing foods. Indulgences aren't evil. Treats don't have to be cheats. And I've lost 44 lbs this way and still going.
Pretty much the same here. I eat what I want, but I plan ahead. If I know I'm going to have a night out at the sushi bar with my friends, I make sure that I've burned an extra 300 kcal the day before and the day after to make up for the spike in calories I will have on a night as such. It's good to have fun. Ultimately, I'm not getting into great shape to just be sober all the time and never enjoy time with my friends. It just has to be in moderation.
Also, I made a habit out of making myself a greatly filling snack: 0% fat Greek Yogurt, oatmeal, walnuts, honey and a bit of cinnamon, make sure to mix well, and it's freaking heavenly! I loved ice creams and desserts, and if I can have a relatively healthy and filling alternative that's easy to make and relatively cheap, why shouldn't I pick it over Ben & Jerries, right?
Also, I have the problem that I can't stop eating gummy mixes (winegums, gummy bears, etc. - I have to eat the whole bag cause I have a severe lack of character when it comes to these candies), so I limit myself to one purchase of those kind of things a week. Went from 95 kg in August to 77.2 kg currently, and never felt stronger! 3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
I wouldn't consider an open/closed diary the ultimate barometer of someone's advice, necessarily.
I was diary stalked on here once under my original account and have no desire to go through that nonsense again. I'm happy to discuss what I eat, but I like to keep my diary closed because that keeps me more accountable to me as well. I'm more likely to keep accurate records if it's private.
Other people, some who have been known to give really great advice, also keep their diaries private. I think you can usually discern good advice from bad after reading around for a while and getting a feel for who generally makes sense most of the time.
I know that's how I learned a lot when I first started posting here a few years ago.
Fair enough I definitely, agree with being able to discern good advice from bad. I've learned a lot from the forums as well, and I contribute some of my success to that advice and veteran members I learned from.
ETA: I've amended my original post.1 -
I
The issue is that's not the topic. OP is saying one can NOT eat what they want and lose weight even if they stay under their calorie goal. There is no opinion here. That is FALSE. OP is wrong and going against science itself. Unless the person has a medical condition or is estimating their maintenance calories incorrectly when choosing their deficit they can eat whatever they like within their calorie goal and lose weight. This is a *FACT* not an opinion so you can agree all you want, but you'd be wrong. Whether it's healthy or not isn't relevant and wasn't the original point.0
There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
This discussion has been closed.
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