"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
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kshama2001 wrote: »crooked_left_hook wrote: »I've been around MFP for years, and I've gained and lost weight more than once.... I have lurked pretty much daily in the forums but I don't post much. I naturally tend to be one of those people that "fall off the wagon" the first day my calories are in the red, "screw it, I've already blown it so I'm gonna eat everything in sight". Then I quit logging and then come back to MFP to lose the same pounds that I've gained. NOT a good cycle.
I have learned the hard way through trial and error, that coming to embrace moderation and not restricting myself to the point that one day/meal will throw me off the wagon is NOT garbage advice. I have to eat less overall that I burn, simple enough. I learned the hard way that making better choices most of the time makes me more satiated, have some fiber/protein (and avocados), but make room for what I enjoy as well. The veteran posters here were right, and I just needed to embrace what I have read over the years and maybe as I get a little older a little more wisdom and been there, done that.
Friday night we went out for Thai food, I had some edamame and a regular entrée, ate a little of the rice but not the whole bowl. Saturday afternoon had sushi, and for dinner I had a huge pita with cucumber/tomato salad. Sunday I was up a pound (sodium bombs!). Years ago I would have freaked, now I drank some water and kept on... today, I am a pound less than I was before the weekend started. Eating food I enjoy and still losing? I'll take it!
Veterans, your posts are not for nothing.... lots of us are listening. Some of it is the school of hard knocks, but your work is appreciated. Because if I listened to people other than you fine folks, I would be drinking Herbalife and sleeping with an It Works wrap on. LOL The woo is everywhere!
This is my experience exactly. Actually, some of the threads/veterans also made me realize I had some "food issues" that lead me to seeing a therapist. No one directly said I should see a therapist, but seeing this "moderation" mentality scared me and that was not a healthy way of thinking. I have done so many diets over the past 10 years, believed so much woo and it all really distorted my thinking about how to effectively lose weight and not be miserable. I believed I had to follow a certain set of "rules" or I was going to fail. Those "rules" were actually doing me more harm than good. It was not until I started following the moderation/non-restriction mentality that it started to actually click. I still have work to do and I still have a lot to lose, but I finally feel like I can lose the weight, keep it off and not be miserable in the process.
There are so many myths, misnomers and business driven claims out there regarding weight loss. It can make it hard to know what will work and it can also cause yo yo dieting, which can lead to food issues. Sometimes the simplest advice (no matter how blunt) and going back to the basics is the most effective way to approach weight loss.
For the record, I just made chocolate chip cookie dough. I plan to freeze the dough, so I can pull out individual servings over the next six weeks. In the past, I would have baked all the cookies today and they probably would have been gone by the weekend.
@Emily3907 Sweet Jesus you just CHANGED MY LIFE!!! I've been craving homemade peanut butter cookies for weeks and it never dawned on me that I could FREEZE THE DOUGH!!! Usually I pawn them off on coworkers but now I can keep them all for myself. GENIUS!
I learned about freezing raw dough from Nigella. BEST chocolate chocolate chip cookie recipe ever! In fact, I think I decrease the amount of chips cuz I just can't cram them all in there.
https://www.nigella.com/recipes/totally-chocolate-chocolate-chip-cookies
Aside from the homemade thing - I'm sure you've seen it in stores, Nestle offers the brake and bake sheets of raw cookies. They also offer tubs. I'm not really the best cookie maker, so this could be why I'm more inclined for those... guaranteed to be delicious! Fast and less messy than baking them! You can definitely freeze them too.
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Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits
Who has said there is something wrong with adopting healthier habits? How is that even related to what OP said.
If I "eat what I want within my calories," what I want might be affected by healthy habits I have or am working on.
I wonder if the people who keep assuming that "eat what you want" = unhealthy realize that it's really quite possible to want to eat a healthful diet. Not to just do so because you think it's necessary for weight loss, but because you want to and like the food.4 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I have read quite a few post since being on MFP. Seemingly we have some career posters that harp on anything that they can turn into something negative. To you I say carry on. Pick another target. You don't have to quote me or you can if you want to but I COULD CARE LESS what you say or think of my comment. Point is "to each is own" do what makes you happy. Now you can try and pick apart what I am saying but my comment is to the OP. Who I agree with and how am I physically sick and needing to see a doctor. Wow!!!!! The drama
You said that eating pizza, burger, and maple bacon donuts made you feel like crap. I (and others) assumed you meant that you felt physically ill, as in it upset your stomach to eat this way, likely because it is richer than you are used to, or maybe because you are lactose intolerant, or gluten intolerant, or have gall stone issues. This is why the suggestion to see a doctor.
Now in your subsequent posts, it seems that you were speaking about feeling like crap mentally, as in guilty, for eating these foods. Is that correct? If so, then I also think, it would be better to address the root cause of your issues with food as I don't believe it is healthy to have feelings of guilt associated with food.
This is not drama or negativity, but a sincere suggestion to try to address those feelings. Many, many people have negative associations with certain foods that create long term struggles with diet and weight management. Trying to understand why you feel that way, when there is nothing inherently "bad" about eating some pizza, or some fast food, or a donut - may help you in the long run.
There's a third option to feeling like crap that isn't upset stomach or feelings of guilt. High carb/high fat foods leave some people feeling really run down and lethargic after consumption. It's very noticeable if you don't eat them often, and it's just an overall feeling of blah.
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I'll admit I've done what I hate and skipped a bunch of pages because I didn't come back to the thread after about 3 and well, here we are.
It's the age old argument that allegedly us regulars tell people to go hard or go home eating only calorie dense nutrient light foods all the live long day. Which is patently absurd and deliberately inflammatory because for whatever reason, the person complaining has some sort of issue with the general advice to newbies being to focus on calories first and foremost because weight loss isn't as complicated as the ridiculous diet industry would like you to believe.
Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal. And before anyone tells me a burger at home will never be the same, I know, the mass production of foods to make a consistent product on a huge scale is different to what we do at home but in the UK at least, the ingredients are identical. I've even linked to their website before to show this. I was curiously ignored on that occasion.
I would also like to know what is in frozen/pre-made supermarket meals that is so abhorrent and unhealthy. Because largely it's carefully managed cooking temperatures in the factory that acts as the preservative. Evil thermometers.9 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits
Who has said there is something wrong with adopting healthier habits? How is that even related to what OP said.
If I "eat what I want within my calories," what I want might be affected by healthy habits I have or am working on.
I wonder if the people who keep assuming that "eat what you want" = unhealthy realize that it's really quite possible to want to eat a healthful diet. Not to just do so because you think it's necessary for weight loss, but because you want to and like the food.
Throughout this entire thread, you have made this point I bet at least a dozen times, and I don't think once has anyone addressed it.
One poster even said that when they peeked at some open diaries they were surprised to see that posters saying "eat whatever you want as long in a calorie deficit" were (GASP) actually eating healthy foods.
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VintageFeline wrote: »I'll admit I've done what I hate and skipped a bunch of pages because I didn't come back to the thread after about 3 and well, here we are.
It's the age old argument that allegedly us regulars tell people to go hard or go home eating only calorie dense nutrient light foods all the live long day. Which is patently absurd and deliberately inflammatory because for whatever reason, the person complaining has some sort of issue with the general advice to newbies being to focus on calories first and foremost because weight loss isn't as complicated as the ridiculous diet industry would like you to believe.
Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal. And before anyone tells me a burger at home will never be the same, I know, the mass production of foods to make a consistent product on a huge scale is different to what we do at home but in the UK at least, the ingredients are identical. I've even linked to their website before to show this. I was curiously ignored on that occasion.
I would also like to know what is in frozen/pre-made supermarket meals that is so abhorrent and unhealthy. Because largely it's carefully managed cooking temperatures in the factory that acts as the preservative. Evil thermometers.
You missed the memo. We're all about the pizza now, not burgers!
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Carlos_421 wrote: »
If they say it so much, please provide just one quote of someone claiming that moderation is strictly defined as "eating a little every day" and doesn't apply to the approach of moderating frequency of consumption.ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Right here! I would rather have a lot of food than a little bit. If I have some teensy-weensy, tee-niney, pigmy sized pea shaped piece of something magically delicious I will not be satisfied. I save the junk for when I REALLY want it. I may blow my calories that day but man is it ever worth it when I do! Some people really are content with two Oreos or a half-cup of ice cream. I I eat that and it's gonna be on like Donkey-Kong.
I consider this a form of moderation too, though.
One form is eat a serving (or whatever amount regularly fits in your calories) more regularly. For example, I went through a stage where I had about 200 calories for dessert every night. I'd have ice cream or cheese usually, or else a more indulgent dinner.
Another is a rare blow out. There are some things I'm not interested in eating in moderation or are hard to fit -- a Mexican restaurant, Indian restaurant, Ethiopian restaurant, rare multi-course tasting menu at a new place, maybe. So I do them more rarely (at maintenance it doesn't have to be that rarely, as I tend to do a weekend long run and long bike, but depends), but when I do them I don't try to fit a calorie goal or skip the naan and get the tandoori chicken and so on. I eat what I want and without really worrying about it and since it's not something I do weekly regardless of workout it doesn't matter. It's a form of moderation. If I felt like that about ice cream or cake (I really don't, I'd rather just have a sensible amount and not overdo), then I'd follow a similar schedule there. But I wouldn't claim that meant "eat what you want within your calories" didn't work, since that would still be what I was doing.
I love pie, I have it basically on holidays only anymore, because baking it is a bad idea unless I have other people to eat it, and because if I bake it I will want more than a piece. I haven't cut out pie and wouldn't tell anyone else you need to cut out pie. 'Cause that's not so, even though I don't eat much pie anymore.
Moderation comes in many forms. I choose to abstain more often. However the kind of moderation most often referred to around here is the "make it fit on a daily basis" moderation.
Then why do so many posts advocating for moderation say "sure, you can have X just maybe not every day?"
Because there are so many thousands of comments on these boards you will easily find "so many" of almost anything if you look for it. Many push making it fit daily, many advocate a cheat day, many advocate saving it for one when you just want it so bad you don't want to resist. You tell me why so many different views, opinions and ways of eating exist. There are many different types of people on these boards is the likely answer.
You're projecting when you say what other people mean by "moderation."
As a strong supporter of moderating, I would tell you that moderation entails controlling portion sizes on some foods and frequency of intake on others. Which foods fall into which category varies by individual. Also, moderation via control of frequency could mean only having one a day vs three a day or it could mean only having that item once a week or it could mean only having that food on holidays/special occasions.
Considering that you feel so strongly that the majority of moderation proponents on MFP think of moderation only as fitting treats into each and every day, I challenge you to find 3 frequent posters who support the concept of moderation but disagree with my definition above.
When a person says what they mean, and they say it a LOT around here I am repeating not projecting. I speak on what I see. You don't even have to like it.
Yeah, I started collecting quotes then got mod-spanked* for posting one so I'm not biting.
*This should not be construed as me complaining about moderation. What I'm actually doing is discussing how I learned from moderation and changed my behavior accordingly.6 -
MontyMuttland wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".
I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.
How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.
Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.
You both illustrate my point perfectly.
If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
Yep, just about everyone...
Guess what--I live in Italy and people regularly eat a whole pizza, and they are usually skinny too. How do you explain that?6 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I have read quite a few post since being on MFP. Seemingly we have some career posters that harp on anything that they can turn into something negative. To you I say carry on. Pick another target. You don't have to quote me or you can if you want to but I COULD CARE LESS what you say or think of my comment. Point is "to each is own" do what makes you happy. Now you can try and pick apart what I am saying but my comment is to the OP. Who I agree with and how am I physically sick and needing to see a doctor. Wow!!!!! The drama
You said that eating pizza, burger, and maple bacon donuts made you feel like crap. I (and others) assumed you meant that you felt physically ill, as in it upset your stomach to eat this way, likely because it is richer than you are used to, or maybe because you are lactose intolerant, or gluten intolerant, or have gall stone issues. This is why the suggestion to see a doctor.
Now in your subsequent posts, it seems that you were speaking about feeling like crap mentally, as in guilty, for eating these foods. Is that correct? If so, then I also think, it would be better to address the root cause of your issues with food as I don't believe it is healthy to have feelings of guilt associated with food.
This is not drama or negativity, but a sincere suggestion to try to address those feelings. Many, many people have negative associations with certain foods that create long term struggles with diet and weight management. Trying to understand why you feel that way, when there is nothing inherently "bad" about eating some pizza, or some fast food, or a donut - may help you in the long run.
There's a third option to feeling like crap that isn't upset stomach or feelings of guilt. High carb/high fat foods leave some people feeling really run down and lethargic after consumption. It's very noticeable if you don't eat them often, and it's just an overall feeling of blah.
Possibly. That poster didn't really clarify. She initially said felt like crap. I thought she meant physically. Others suggested that might warrant a trip to a doctor, which she was apparently insulted by. She later suggested that it was more of a "mental" feel like crap. <shrug>. Whether it is a physical reaction or a mental one, doesn't sound good, and maybe something to address.4 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal.
Well I think all ingredients not being equal is what makes homemade burgers better. Better ingredients = better taste.0 -
ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »
If they say it so much, please provide just one quote of someone claiming that moderation is strictly defined as "eating a little every day" and doesn't apply to the approach of moderating frequency of consumption.ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Right here! I would rather have a lot of food than a little bit. If I have some teensy-weensy, tee-niney, pigmy sized pea shaped piece of something magically delicious I will not be satisfied. I save the junk for when I REALLY want it. I may blow my calories that day but man is it ever worth it when I do! Some people really are content with two Oreos or a half-cup of ice cream. I I eat that and it's gonna be on like Donkey-Kong.
I consider this a form of moderation too, though.
One form is eat a serving (or whatever amount regularly fits in your calories) more regularly. For example, I went through a stage where I had about 200 calories for dessert every night. I'd have ice cream or cheese usually, or else a more indulgent dinner.
Another is a rare blow out. There are some things I'm not interested in eating in moderation or are hard to fit -- a Mexican restaurant, Indian restaurant, Ethiopian restaurant, rare multi-course tasting menu at a new place, maybe. So I do them more rarely (at maintenance it doesn't have to be that rarely, as I tend to do a weekend long run and long bike, but depends), but when I do them I don't try to fit a calorie goal or skip the naan and get the tandoori chicken and so on. I eat what I want and without really worrying about it and since it's not something I do weekly regardless of workout it doesn't matter. It's a form of moderation. If I felt like that about ice cream or cake (I really don't, I'd rather just have a sensible amount and not overdo), then I'd follow a similar schedule there. But I wouldn't claim that meant "eat what you want within your calories" didn't work, since that would still be what I was doing.
I love pie, I have it basically on holidays only anymore, because baking it is a bad idea unless I have other people to eat it, and because if I bake it I will want more than a piece. I haven't cut out pie and wouldn't tell anyone else you need to cut out pie. 'Cause that's not so, even though I don't eat much pie anymore.
Moderation comes in many forms. I choose to abstain more often. However the kind of moderation most often referred to around here is the "make it fit on a daily basis" moderation.
Then why do so many posts advocating for moderation say "sure, you can have X just maybe not every day?"
Because there are so many thousands of comments on these boards you will easily find "so many" of almost anything if you look for it. Many push making it fit daily, many advocate a cheat day, many advocate saving it for one when you just want it so bad you don't want to resist. You tell me why so many different views, opinions and ways of eating exist. There are many different types of people on these boards is the likely answer.
You're projecting when you say what other people mean by "moderation."
As a strong supporter of moderating, I would tell you that moderation entails controlling portion sizes on some foods and frequency of intake on others. Which foods fall into which category varies by individual. Also, moderation via control of frequency could mean only having one a day vs three a day or it could mean only having that item once a week or it could mean only having that food on holidays/special occasions.
Considering that you feel so strongly that the majority of moderation proponents on MFP think of moderation only as fitting treats into each and every day, I challenge you to find 3 frequent posters who support the concept of moderation but disagree with my definition above.
When a person says what they mean, and they say it a LOT around here I am repeating not projecting. I speak on what I see. You don't even have to like it.
Please go read for yourself. I am not going to sift through threads or quotes to help you see what you likely already see but refuse to admit to seeing. This whole thread has turned into a neighborhood brawl in the most absurd way. Enjoy the rest of your stay here on this endlessly growing MFP rumble.
I've spent a lot of time on these forums and participated in countless of these discussions. I've never once noted a single instance of anyone stating or even insinuating that frequency isn't a valid method of moderation.
I have seen people make straw man claims like yours that "moderators" argue you should eat some "junk food" everyday. I've also seen those claims frequently denied.3 -
I get where the OP is coming from. You can lose if you eat what you want and stay within your calorie goals, but do you have the will power to eat what you want within moderation. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. As an emotional eater, some foods are very difficult for me to have in moderation. So I have to recognize, that when I am going through stressful times, I will likely not eat just 3 cookies. So best to avoid them altogether.
Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits, which may include limiting or eliminating foods that have very little health benefits. Better to do it now, then later when you are faced with many ailments that you have no choice. My mother has congestive heart failure and I'm her caretaker. She is allowed, 2000 mg of sodium a day, that virtually eliminates all processed foods. She is also diabetic so sugar must also be monitored. It isn't easy preparing her food. She still wants crap, but it isn't an option for her now. She is not overweight, but has been at different points in her life. As someone coming from a family with a history of heart disease and diabetes, it is about more than just calories.
I don't think that anyone would have anything against what you've described here. But that's honestly not what I took from the OP and I'm struggling to see how anyone found such reasonable advice in the OP's post. I'm honestly not trying to be snarky here, but I feel like some people and I read completely different posts here. Maybe it's the OP's insistence on using "you" phrases (you're going to be starving to death, you're going to cave, etc. -- speaking for my experience is always going to get my hackles up) or the "don't listen to them" at the end when referring to people like myself who spend hours here trying to help (not so much anymore, pretty much done with the forums because of **** like this). Or the insistence that many of us must be giving advice based on vanity or attention (the "look at me" comments). The OP reads to me less as an attempt to help people and more as a series of digs at those of us giving advice on the forum when the OP doesn't seem to do it themselves.9 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal.
Well I think all ingredients not being equal is what makes homemade burgers better. Better ingredients = better taste.
Isn't that the Papa Johns slogan?
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WinoGelato wrote: »I have read quite a few post since being on MFP. Seemingly we have some career posters that harp on anything that they can turn into something negative. To you I say carry on. Pick another target. You don't have to quote me or you can if you want to but I COULD CARE LESS what you say or think of my comment. Point is "to each is own" do what makes you happy. Now you can try and pick apart what I am saying but my comment is to the OP. Who I agree with and how am I physically sick and needing to see a doctor. Wow!!!!! The drama
You said that eating pizza, burger, and maple bacon donuts made you feel like crap. I (and others) assumed you meant that you felt physically ill, as in it upset your stomach to eat this way, likely because it is richer than you are used to, or maybe because you are lactose intolerant, or gluten intolerant, or have gall stone issues. This is why the suggestion to see a doctor.
Now in your subsequent posts, it seems that you were speaking about feeling like crap mentally, as in guilty, for eating these foods. Is that correct? If so, then I also think, it would be better to address the root cause of your issues with food as I don't believe it is healthy to have feelings of guilt associated with food.
This is not drama or negativity, but a sincere suggestion to try to address those feelings. Many, many people have negative associations with certain foods that create long term struggles with diet and weight management. Trying to understand why you feel that way, when there is nothing inherently "bad" about eating some pizza, or some fast food, or a donut - may help you in the long run.
There's a third option to feeling like crap that isn't upset stomach or feelings of guilt. High carb/high fat foods leave some people feeling really run down and lethargic after consumption. It's very noticeable if you don't eat them often, and it's just an overall feeling of blah.
True, though she specifically mentioned fatty greasy foods, not high carb.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal.
Well I think all ingredients not being equal is what makes homemade burgers better. Better ingredients = better taste.
Isn't that the Papa Johns slogan?
It is, but it's still true.0 -
snowflake954 wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".
I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.
How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.
Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.
You both illustrate my point perfectly.
If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
Yep, just about everyone...
Guess what--I live in Italy and people regularly eat a whole pizza, and they are usually skinny too. How do you explain that?
Chances are, the pizzas are smaller than a typical American pizza.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I have read quite a few post since being on MFP. Seemingly we have some career posters that harp on anything that they can turn into something negative. To you I say carry on. Pick another target. You don't have to quote me or you can if you want to but I COULD CARE LESS what you say or think of my comment. Point is "to each is own" do what makes you happy. Now you can try and pick apart what I am saying but my comment is to the OP. Who I agree with and how am I physically sick and needing to see a doctor. Wow!!!!! The drama
You said that eating pizza, burger, and maple bacon donuts made you feel like crap. I (and others) assumed you meant that you felt physically ill, as in it upset your stomach to eat this way, likely because it is richer than you are used to, or maybe because you are lactose intolerant, or gluten intolerant, or have gall stone issues. This is why the suggestion to see a doctor.
Now in your subsequent posts, it seems that you were speaking about feeling like crap mentally, as in guilty, for eating these foods. Is that correct? If so, then I also think, it would be better to address the root cause of your issues with food as I don't believe it is healthy to have feelings of guilt associated with food.
This is not drama or negativity, but a sincere suggestion to try to address those feelings. Many, many people have negative associations with certain foods that create long term struggles with diet and weight management. Trying to understand why you feel that way, when there is nothing inherently "bad" about eating some pizza, or some fast food, or a donut - may help you in the long run.
There's a third option to feeling like crap that isn't upset stomach or feelings of guilt. High carb/high fat foods leave some people feeling really run down and lethargic after consumption. It's very noticeable if you don't eat them often, and it's just an overall feeling of blah.
Yup, this is me after a pint of Ben & Jerry's. Blah. (After initial euphoria.)0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »I'll admit I've done what I hate and skipped a bunch of pages because I didn't come back to the thread after about 3 and well, here we are.
It's the age old argument that allegedly us regulars tell people to go hard or go home eating only calorie dense nutrient light foods all the live long day. Which is patently absurd and deliberately inflammatory because for whatever reason, the person complaining has some sort of issue with the general advice to newbies being to focus on calories first and foremost because weight loss isn't as complicated as the ridiculous diet industry would like you to believe.
Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal. And before anyone tells me a burger at home will never be the same, I know, the mass production of foods to make a consistent product on a huge scale is different to what we do at home but in the UK at least, the ingredients are identical. I've even linked to their website before to show this. I was curiously ignored on that occasion.
I would also like to know what is in frozen/pre-made supermarket meals that is so abhorrent and unhealthy. Because largely it's carefully managed cooking temperatures in the factory that acts as the preservative. Evil thermometers.
You missed the memo. We're all about the pizza now, not burgers!
Soz! Insert pizza of choice instead of McDs.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits
Who has said there is something wrong with adopting healthier habits? How is that even related to what OP said.
If I "eat what I want within my calories," what I want might be affected by healthy habits I have or am working on.
I wonder if the people who keep assuming that "eat what you want" = unhealthy realize that it's really quite possible to want to eat a healthful diet. Not to just do so because you think it's necessary for weight loss, but because you want to and like the food.
Throughout this entire thread, you have made this point I bet at least a dozen times, and I don't think once has anyone addressed it.
One poster even said that when they peeked at some open diaries they were surprised to see that posters saying "eat whatever you want as long in a calorie deficit" were (GASP) actually eating healthy foods.
I think it's less comprehensible, for some, that people willingly choose to eat healthy over eating foods that "taste" better (b/c there's no way healthy food tastes better than "junk" food ::sarcasm::). Think about it, before we found MFP (pardon my massive assumption, speaking more indirectly to myself), I, at least, always thought healthy food was veggies and tasteless things. Never in a million years would I think my veggie stir fry/salad/fish are as good to me as a slice of pizza. They both satisfy my taste buds, but had you told me this 10 years ago... I'd think you're crazy.
It's just the misconception that's been fueled by years of wrong dieting information being shoved down our throats.
No one chooses to eat healthy, come on! There's no way I will be as satisfied eating a baked mushroom as I would if I were eating fried chicken. Also, sarcasm.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal.
Well I think all ingredients not being equal is what makes homemade burgers better. Better ingredients = better taste.
They are equal. How they are made into the end product differs (use of machinery to produce and consistent product versus my hands at home). but it's still 100% beef and potatoes and lettuce and tomatoes etc.3 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt
There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
Nope. No they aren't. Posters here are under no OBLIGATION to do a damn thing. There are some rules in place that prevent posters from openly mocking, but there is no OBLIGATION to do anything.
If you are not going to depict the true story then you shouldn't be providing advice to others that need it....
0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits
Who has said there is something wrong with adopting healthier habits? How is that even related to what OP said.
If I "eat what I want within my calories," what I want might be affected by healthy habits I have or am working on.
I wonder if the people who keep assuming that "eat what you want" = unhealthy realize that it's really quite possible to want to eat a healthful diet. Not to just do so because you think it's necessary for weight loss, but because you want to and like the food.
For you eating what you want may mean a healthy diet, but many who are counting calories to lose weight probably wouldn't be here, if healthy items were their first choice. They certainly aren't mine. I didn't read all the comments, since there are 25 pages, but eating what you want, but staying within calories may not equal healthy either. Processed foods have tons of sodium, which is not great for anyone, definitely not for someone with high blood pressure or heart disease.
It takes time to want to eat healthy things for some people. That could mean limiting or eliminating some foods from your diet completely. That is after all the goal, to want to eat healthy. For some people, it is just not realistic to achieve that, if they just ate whatever they want.1 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
Nope. No they aren't. Posters here are under no OBLIGATION to do a damn thing. There are some rules in place that prevent posters from openly mocking, but there is no OBLIGATION to do anything.
If you are not going to depict the true story then you shouldn't be providing advice to others that need it....
The true story comes out in a collective collaboration of posts and statements.8 -
4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
The truth about what people are really eating. Not falsely claiming they eat WHATEVER they want, WHENEVER they want...0 -
I don't know...................The only main difference from a Nation's burger and a burger I make at home is usually the cook and not the ingredients.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal.
Well I think all ingredients not being equal is what makes homemade burgers better. Better ingredients = better taste.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
The truth about what people are really eating. Not falsely claiming they eat WHATEVER they want, WHENEVER they want...
You are missing the point that that is the TRUTH. They are eating what they want, whenever they want. You are assuming that the things they eat (myself included) are eaten out of obligation or necessity. I love chicken breast, quinoa, and sweet potatoes. Are they healthy? Yes. Do I eat them when I want? Yes. The two are not mutually exclusive.13 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
The truth about what people are really eating. Not falsely claiming they eat WHATEVER they want, WHENEVER they want...
@AntoinetteAngus You'll be spending the time replying to as many threads as possible to get this drastically important information out to the newbies, right? I mean, if you're going to complain about how the rest of us do it, why not jump in and do it better instead?14 -
I get where the OP is coming from. You can lose if you eat what you want and stay within your calorie goals, but do you have the will power to eat what you want within moderation. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. As an emotional eater, some foods are very difficult for me to have in moderation. So I have to recognize, that when I am going through stressful times, I will likely not eat just 3 cookies. So best to avoid them altogether.
Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits, which may include limiting or eliminating foods that have very little health benefits. Better to do it now, then later when you are faced with many ailments that you have no choice. My mother has congestive heart failure and I'm her caretaker. She is allowed, 2000 mg of sodium a day, that virtually eliminates all processed foods. She is also diabetic so sugar must also be monitored. It isn't easy preparing her food. She still wants crap, but it isn't an option for her now. She is not overweight, but has been at different points in her life. As someone coming from a family with a history of heart disease and diabetes, it is about more than just calories.
And I'd wager that pretty much everyone who says you can eat what you want within your calories has in fact developed healthier habits. Once again...as has been stated about a million times in this thread...context is important...nobody is saying live off of crap and just fit it in.
These comments arise when people think they have to be perfect all of the time and do all kinds of hand wringing and torture themselves because they think a cookie is going to make or break them.
People need to use some basic common sense...people seriously can't be this dumb to think that this means to just eat crap all of the time. As I've stated here and in countless threads...I eat a primarily whole foods diet and cook most of my meals at home using scratch, whole ingredients or minimally processed things like cans of tomatoes, etc...I also enjoy pizza night on Fridays...I have a little something for desert 2-3 days per week...I like craft beer, etc. Context is important...you have to look at the diet overall, and in the big picture, pizza Friday is pretty immaterial.7 -
I don't know...................The only main difference from a Nation's burger and a burger I make at home is usually the cook and not the ingredients.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal.
Well I think all ingredients not being equal is what makes homemade burgers better. Better ingredients = better taste.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Not all burger places are Nation's (or Five Guys or Smashburger or...) just like not all pizzerias are huge national chains with undertrained staff following factory-style recipes, and not all pizzas are frozen rock-solid in a supermarket.
Just goes to show how, in so much of the country, what I would consider to be "good pizza" is so utterly lacking. No wonder so many folks think pineapple is a valid topping.1 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
The truth about what people are really eating. Not falsely claiming they eat WHATEVER they want, WHENEVER they want...
Well, I'll reshare what I posted about 10 pages back. My doctor called this morning. All my health marker's are right where they should be. My AC1 levels are great, my HDL levels are even elevated (which reduces risk of heart disease), one of my last BP readings was 110 over 70. I've lost 125 lbs and had half a BBQ pizza Friday. All you can eat Brazilian steakhouse two weeks ago for my birthday, etc. We claim you can eat whatever you want whenever you want for weight loss and AS PART OF AN OVERALL NUTRITIOUS DIET for health. We've never said eat only bacon and doughnuts for prefect doctor visits.
ETA: Some grammar and syntax issues after a premature 'enter' tap.6
This discussion has been closed.
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