"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.

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  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I am 44 yrs old and spent most of my life in NY, one of the capitals of pizza, and I don't know anyone who would eat a whole pie in one sitting. We order 2 pies (16 slices) for 5 adults and a toddler and usually have 4 or 5 slices left to eat cold for breakfast the next day.

    NY slices are famously big. How many calories per slice?

    A typical large (8 slice) pizza here would be 17 or 18". I'm going to be 100% honest and say I have never gotten out the kitchen scale and broken down the ingredients to get an accurate calorie count, as different places will have slightly different crust thickness, cheese ratio, oil amount etc. I log an entry I found that had reasonable macros with 225 cals per slice. I would expect an extra oily slice could be closer to 300 cals. And if you pile on calorie-dense toppings like meat or extra cheese, possibly more. Based on tracking my calories for 2+ years now, and my weight doing approximately what I think it will, I feel pretty confident in that guesstimate. So I log 225 cals for a plain/veggie slice, add 50 if it has some meat on it, and I might log an extra tablespoon of oil if it's running down my arm as I eat it.

    I eat two slices once or twice a week since I got my first teeth in. There's a local place that has a spinach/mushroom/garlic pizza that is easily 1 serving of veggies per slice. Love that stuff :)
  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    I wouldn't consider an open/closed diary the ultimate barometer of someone's advice, necessarily.

    I was diary stalked on here once under my original account and have no desire to go through that nonsense again.

    I will say this. My diary is open. If someone want to stalk me and hassle me over it, go right ahead. Trust me, you can't hurt my feelings. Go for it. I dare you.

    To be clear, I have the ultimate respect for the poster above and respect her right to privacy. I've taken advice from her and seen her results.

    I just don't care if someone want to try to make me feel bad for my food choices.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    brittyn3 wrote: »
    brittyn3 wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    BlueSkyShoal wrote: »
    Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

    I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

    Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

    What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza. :)

    To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

    Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

    YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

    Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

    Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

    And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

    I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it. :confused:

    WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

    Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

    'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

    If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

    Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt :tired_face: There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.

    They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...

    The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines

    what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying

    Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.

    I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...

    But people DO say that. I've seen very few people claiming they've cut out ALL "junk" food. Sure, if you're getting tips from a self proclaimed "clean" eater maybe. But the vast majority of people who give advice on this board, literally say... I save room for it in my macros, I budget my calories for it, I fit it in, I plan for it.

    And to add further - when someone is genuinely asking what successful people have done, they open their diaries, or break it down. People hold themselves accountable here, at least the people giving sound advice. There's no cloak and dagger BS going on.

    I wouldn't consider an open/closed diary the ultimate barometer of someone's advice, necessarily.

    I was diary stalked on here once under my original account and have no desire to go through that nonsense again. I'm happy to discuss what I eat, but I like to keep my diary closed because that keeps me more accountable to me as well. I'm more likely to keep accurate records if it's private.

    Other people, some who have been known to give really great advice, also keep their diaries private. I think you can usually discern good advice from bad after reading around for a while and getting a feel for who generally makes sense most of the time.

    I know that's how I learned a lot when I first started posting here a few years ago.

    Yeah, my diary is open to friends but closed to the public. Getting food shamed by random strangers who didn't like something you said in the forums is no fun :(.
  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
    edited March 2017
    Removed
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
    MontyMuttland wrote: »
    Emily3907 wrote: »
    Chef_Barbell wrote: »
    MontyMuttland wrote: »
    "For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
    This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
    I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
    The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
    And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
    If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
    The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
    That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
    If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
    So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
    New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
    Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
    "For things to change, you have to change."
    Embrace it, do it.
    During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
    I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
    I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
    But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
    I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
    That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
    "Suck it up or stay fat!".

    I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.

    How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.

    Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.

    You both illustrate my point perfectly.
    If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
    Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
    The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
    I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
    So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
    And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
    Yep, just about everyone...

    Not at all? We always shared a frozen pizza for dinner in my family. I have no idea where you learned to eat pizza and I live in Chicago. lol. Like you said, people who over-eat might do that. I can't say I haven't eaten lots of pizza in the past, but I still lost weight. So it's not really relevant to this post or in fact it proves OP wrong.
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
    ivygirl1937 wrote: »
    MontyMuttland wrote: »
    Emily3907 wrote: »
    Chef_Barbell wrote: »
    MontyMuttland wrote: »
    "For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
    This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
    I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
    The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
    And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
    If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
    The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
    That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
    If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
    So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
    New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
    Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
    "For things to change, you have to change."
    Embrace it, do it.
    During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
    I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
    I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
    But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
    I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
    That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
    "Suck it up or stay fat!".

    I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.

    How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.

    Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.

    You both illustrate my point perfectly.
    If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
    Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
    The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
    I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
    So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
    And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
    Yep, just about everyone...

    Myself and my entire family have been obese almost our entire lives and I have never seen one of us finish an entire pizza by ourselves. Ever. We don't even get close to that. We typically would (I'm married now so we no longer all eat together so that is why this is past tense) order two pizzas and have a couple of slices left over between the four of us. At my absolute fattest and hungriest, I could do half, MAYBE. Even then I would have to try hard and believe in myself and then be very sick afterward. I can't think of anyone who regularly eats a whole pizza as a meal.

    And as others have noted, I can make one myself that is around the 700 calorie mark for the whole thing if I really just had the desire to eat a whole pizza and I can make 700 calories fit in my day just fine.

    Edited to clarify.

    I could totally eat a whole 18" ORDERED pizza but how many people do you know who eat that EVERY night? Expensive! And way higher in calories. I split one with my BF plus fries (very very rarely) or I did before and guess what? I still lost weight. Over 3lbs a week at one point.
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
    edited March 2017
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I am 44 yrs old and spent most of my life in NY, one of the capitals of pizza, and I don't know anyone who would eat a whole pie in one sitting. We order 2 pies (16 slices) for 5 adults and a toddler and usually have 4 or 5 slices left to eat cold for breakfast the next day.

    I'd eat a whole pizza in one sitting no problem, but again, I wouldn't do it every day and I know how to make up for it later and go right back to my diet. lol. Also, this is not something I see most people doing. I just like to. Lol. Most people I know do not!
  • brittyn3
    brittyn3 Posts: 481 Member
    edited March 2017
    kimny72 wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    brittyn3 wrote: »
    brittyn3 wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    BlueSkyShoal wrote: »
    Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

    I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

    Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

    What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza. :)

    To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

    Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

    YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

    Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

    Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

    And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

    I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it. :confused:

    WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

    Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

    'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

    If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

    Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt :tired_face: There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.

    They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...

    The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines

    what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying

    Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.

    I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...

    But people DO say that. I've seen very few people claiming they've cut out ALL "junk" food. Sure, if you're getting tips from a self proclaimed "clean" eater maybe. But the vast majority of people who give advice on this board, literally say... I save room for it in my macros, I budget my calories for it, I fit it in, I plan for it.

    And to add further - when someone is genuinely asking what successful people have done, they open their diaries, or break it down. People hold themselves accountable here, at least the people giving sound advice. There's no cloak and dagger BS going on.

    I wouldn't consider an open/closed diary the ultimate barometer of someone's advice, necessarily.

    I was diary stalked on here once under my original account and have no desire to go through that nonsense again. I'm happy to discuss what I eat, but I like to keep my diary closed because that keeps me more accountable to me as well. I'm more likely to keep accurate records if it's private.

    Other people, some who have been known to give really great advice, also keep their diaries private. I think you can usually discern good advice from bad after reading around for a while and getting a feel for who generally makes sense most of the time.

    I know that's how I learned a lot when I first started posting here a few years ago.

    Yeah, my diary is open to friends but closed to the public. Getting food shamed by random strangers who didn't like something you said in the forums is no fun :(.

    I'm sorry y'all - I didn't mean what I said in a way to downgrade any of your contributions. I was just trying to explain that people are willing to go out of their way to help someone with questions and aren't hiding anything from anyone. But that's not to say you are hiding anything from keeping your diary private or even discrediting you. I just picked a parameter.

    Seriously, I've learned a lot from people and am in no way making light from that. I would change my comment, but it'll be confusing if I do to others reading along in the thread. But I'll add an edit line.

    Here is my edit to my original post: ETA: I am in, no way shape or form, downgrading or criticizing anyone's contributions who keep their diary private. I just picked a common parameter/talking point to further what I was trying to say: that people on here are not hiding or lying or covering up how they do things. Diary is a common factor for us all on MFP and that's why my mind went to that example first.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    TyFit1908 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    TyFit1908 wrote: »
    Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits

    Who has said there is something wrong with adopting healthier habits? How is that even related to what OP said.

    If I "eat what I want within my calories," what I want might be affected by healthy habits I have or am working on.

    I wonder if the people who keep assuming that "eat what you want" = unhealthy realize that it's really quite possible to want to eat a healthful diet. Not to just do so because you think it's necessary for weight loss, but because you want to and like the food.

    For you eating what you want may mean a healthy diet, but many who are counting calories to lose weight probably wouldn't be here, if healthy items were their first choice. They certainly aren't mine.

    You might be surprised at how many people really enjoy "healthy" foods, even people who become overweight. (I am wondering if you have an overly narrow definition of healthy foods, however, like @brittnyn3 discussed a few posts ago.

    I you think losing weight/eating a healthful diet means you can't eat foods you enjoy eating and wouldn't voluntarily choose, I feel bad for you, and mean that sincerely. Now, of course I can't eat everything I might want to eat, but I don't think my diet is any less tasty and satisfying eating now (mostly doing maintenance) or even at a deficit than it was when I paid more attention to calories. I probably eat better foods now on average just because I know calories are limited and don't want to waste them on foods I don't care about if I can avoid it.

    I've also always enjoyed fish, vegetables, lots of other stereotypically "healthy" foods, though, as well as plenty that are not, and learning how to cook them in different ways only increased that.
    Processed foods have tons of sodium, which is not great for anyone, definitely not for someone with high blood pressure or heart disease.

    Technically "processed" is a very broad category and includes some foods that are high in sodium and some that are not. My weaknesses are more homemade stuff and local restaurants, though.
    It takes time to want to eat healthy things for some people. That could mean limiting or eliminating some foods from your diet completely. That is after all the goal, to want to eat healthy. For some people, it is just not realistic to achieve that, if they just ate whatever they want.

    But if you are attempting to change your preferences some (which in some cases I think is a worthwhile thing to work on), aren't you eating what you want? What you want has to do with goals like "healthy diet" and "diet that makes me feel good" and not just "thing that tastes the best to me this moment," after all.
  • diannethegeek
    diannethegeek Posts: 14,776 Member
    edited March 2017
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »
    How about this one!

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10183824/things-i-had-to-unlearn-about-losing-weight/p1

    Thanks, that's all good advice. I didn't notice anything that directly answers the question a newbie might have, but it is still very good advice.

    Since you seem to be keen to be the voice of all newbies and know all the questions they might have... maybe you should start a thread to try to get those questions answered succinctly and with consensus from the community at large.

    Did you ever get around to this, @dfwesq? Because I would nominate it for a sticky in a heartbeat if you could get something together. Since you're the expert and everything.



    Edited to fix quotes.
  • TyFit1908
    TyFit1908 Posts: 29 Member
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    TyFit1908 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    TyFit1908 wrote: »
    Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits

    Who has said there is something wrong with adopting healthier habits? How is that even related to what OP said.

    If I "eat what I want within my calories," what I want might be affected by healthy habits I have or am working on.

    I wonder if the people who keep assuming that "eat what you want" = unhealthy realize that it's really quite possible to want to eat a healthful diet. Not to just do so because you think it's necessary for weight loss, but because you want to and like the food.

    For you eating what you want may mean a healthy diet, but many who are counting calories to lose weight probably wouldn't be here, if healthy items were their first choice. They certainly aren't mine. I didn't read all the comments, since there are 25 pages, but eating what you want, but staying within calories may not equal healthy either. Processed foods have tons of sodium, which is not great for anyone, definitely not for someone with high blood pressure or heart disease.

    It takes time to want to eat healthy things for some people. That could mean limiting or eliminating some foods from your diet completely. That is after all the goal, to want to eat healthy. For some people, it is just not realistic to achieve that, if they just ate whatever they want.

    Well, I was fat and I actually ate really healthily. I was over liberal with cooking oils sometimes and portions often. So the advice to reduce portions within my calories is totally applicable.

    This assumption that fat people don't like healthy food is as ridiculous as the assertion those who advise of moderation never make any mention of nutrition eve    r.

    Great for you to already make healthy choices and only having to worry about portion control. You are an exception to the rule. It is unfortunate that you don't recognize that others may have to learn to make healthy choices as well as portion control. I think it is ridiculous to assume that everyone struggling with weight really like healthy food, just because you did. I don't understand the purpose of debating the merit in making healthy choices or what constitutes healthy choices, since that is why many choose to come to MFP in the first place. For some making healthy choices is easy, for others it is a huge undertaking and may require changing the way they approach food. So for the latter group, eating what they want when they want, might not be the best advice.
  • crooked_left_hook
    crooked_left_hook Posts: 364 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    crooked_left_hook wrote: »
    Emily3907 wrote: »
    karahm78 wrote: »
    I've been around MFP for years, and I've gained and lost weight more than once.... I have lurked pretty much daily in the forums but I don't post much. I naturally tend to be one of those people that "fall off the wagon" the first day my calories are in the red, "screw it, I've already blown it so I'm gonna eat everything in sight". Then I quit logging and then come back to MFP to lose the same pounds that I've gained. NOT a good cycle.

    I have learned the hard way through trial and error, that coming to embrace moderation and not restricting myself to the point that one day/meal will throw me off the wagon is NOT garbage advice. I have to eat less overall that I burn, simple enough. I learned the hard way that making better choices most of the time makes me more satiated, have some fiber/protein (and avocados), but make room for what I enjoy as well. The veteran posters here were right, and I just needed to embrace what I have read over the years and maybe as I get a little older a little more wisdom and been there, done that.

    Friday night we went out for Thai food, I had some edamame and a regular entrée, ate a little of the rice but not the whole bowl. Saturday afternoon had sushi, and for dinner I had a huge pita with cucumber/tomato salad. Sunday I was up a pound (sodium bombs!). Years ago I would have freaked, now I drank some water and kept on... today, I am a pound less than I was before the weekend started. Eating food I enjoy and still losing? I'll take it!

    Veterans, your posts are not for nothing.... lots of us are listening. Some of it is the school of hard knocks, but your work is appreciated. Because if I listened to people other than you fine folks, I would be drinking Herbalife and sleeping with an It Works wrap on. LOL The woo is everywhere!

    This is my experience exactly. Actually, some of the threads/veterans also made me realize I had some "food issues" that lead me to seeing a therapist. No one directly said I should see a therapist, but seeing this "moderation" mentality scared me and that was not a healthy way of thinking. I have done so many diets over the past 10 years, believed so much woo and it all really distorted my thinking about how to effectively lose weight and not be miserable. I believed I had to follow a certain set of "rules" or I was going to fail. Those "rules" were actually doing me more harm than good. It was not until I started following the moderation/non-restriction mentality that it started to actually click. I still have work to do and I still have a lot to lose, but I finally feel like I can lose the weight, keep it off and not be miserable in the process.

    There are so many myths, misnomers and business driven claims out there regarding weight loss. It can make it hard to know what will work and it can also cause yo yo dieting, which can lead to food issues. Sometimes the simplest advice (no matter how blunt) and going back to the basics is the most effective way to approach weight loss.

    For the record, I just made chocolate chip cookie dough. I plan to freeze the dough, so I can pull out individual servings over the next six weeks. In the past, I would have baked all the cookies today and they probably would have been gone by the weekend. :D

    @Emily3907 Sweet Jesus you just CHANGED MY LIFE!!! I've been craving homemade peanut butter cookies for weeks and it never dawned on me that I could FREEZE THE DOUGH!!! Usually I pawn them off on coworkers but now I can keep them all for myself. GENIUS!

    I learned about freezing raw dough from Nigella. BEST chocolate chocolate chip cookie recipe ever! In fact, I think I decrease the amount of chips cuz I just can't cram them all in there.

    https://www.nigella.com/recipes/totally-chocolate-chocolate-chip-cookies

    Add 1tsp of cinnamon and 1/2 tsp of chili powder to that recipe and you have Mexican Hot Chocolate cookies :) The kick is subtle but amazing. They disappeared in minutes last time I brought them to the office.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I am 44 yrs old and spent most of my life in NY, one of the capitals of pizza, and I don't know anyone who would eat a whole pie in one sitting. We order 2 pies (16 slices) for 5 adults and a toddler and usually have 4 or 5 slices left to eat cold for breakfast the next day.

    NY slices are famously big. How many calories per slice?

    I am wondering how people would even know. I mean sure, if I made it, but with something I got at a local restaurant I have no clue how many calories. I'd normally estimate 1000 for a meal out with pizza and salad and I lost on schedule in weeks where I had pizza.

    One piece of Lou Malnatis (which I have sometimes and had more when I was not paying attention to calories) is 232 (the small pizza, a Lou). I would normally have 2-3 pieces. That's a perfectly sensible meal. The problem is that I might also split a dessert or an appetizer or have too much for other meals, and those are things I don't do now.
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

    Preservatives are chemicals to make your food last longer. This is not natural. Food should spoil when it spoils. You should not be injecting it with stuff to make it last longer.
    Lol, guess you didn't ace chemistry class. You do know they've used SALT (yes even "organic" sea salt) as a preservative for CENTURIES now?
    So glad you clarified the following because most people tend to leave it at 'you can eat WHATEVER you want'
    You CAN eat whatever you want to lose weight. It's NOT the best approach, however the issue that arises from the diet and fitness industry is that anything not "clean" or "unprocessed" should be avoided at all costs. And that's just not the truth. Again, there are so many other industrialized countries that consume processed products and DON'T have an weight or obesity issue in their populations. In fact, I'll even say that once many of them migrate to the US, they GAIN weight within the first 5 years just due to OVEREATING.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png



    To clarify you mean it is not the best approach for *health* purposes but it can be the best approach for weight loss for some people.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    brittyn3 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    brittyn3 wrote: »
    brittyn3 wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    BlueSkyShoal wrote: »
    Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

    I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

    Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

    What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza. :)

    To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

    Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

    YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

    Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

    Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

    And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

    I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it. :confused:

    WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

    Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

    'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

    If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

    Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt :tired_face: There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.

    They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...

    The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines

    what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying

    Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.

    I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...

    But people DO say that. I've seen very few people claiming they've cut out ALL "junk" food. Sure, if you're getting tips from a self proclaimed "clean" eater maybe. But the vast majority of people who give advice on this board, literally say... I save room for it in my macros, I budget my calories for it, I fit it in, I plan for it.

    And to add further - when someone is genuinely asking what successful people have done, they open their diaries, or break it down. People hold themselves accountable here, at least the people giving sound advice. There's no cloak and dagger BS going on.

    I wouldn't consider an open/closed diary the ultimate barometer of someone's advice, necessarily.

    I was diary stalked on here once under my original account and have no desire to go through that nonsense again. I'm happy to discuss what I eat, but I like to keep my diary closed because that keeps me more accountable to me as well. I'm more likely to keep accurate records if it's private.

    Other people, some who have been known to give really great advice, also keep their diaries private. I think you can usually discern good advice from bad after reading around for a while and getting a feel for who generally makes sense most of the time.

    I know that's how I learned a lot when I first started posting here a few years ago.

    Yeah, my diary is open to friends but closed to the public. Getting food shamed by random strangers who didn't like something you said in the forums is no fun :(.

    I'm sorry y'all - I didn't mean what I said in a way to downgrade any of your contributions. I was just trying to explain that people are willing to go out of their way to help someone with questions and aren't hiding anything from anyone. But that's not to say you are hiding anything from keeping your diary private or even discrediting you. I just picked a parameter.

    Seriously, I've learned a lot from people and am in no way making light from that. I would change my comment, but it'll be confusing if I do to others reading along in the thread. But I'll add an edit line.

    No apology needed! I wasn't taking offense, just wanted to throw in another way to look at it. I'm also usually maintaining at this point, so I don't necessarily log the way I would council someone just starting out to log, so my diary wouldn't be very helpful to some people LOL!
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal.

    Until 2012, many fast food chains added 'pink slime' to their burgers. http://www.snopes.com/food/prepare/msm.asp

    I stopped eating fast food burgers after seeing the ammonia factory in 'Food, Inc.' I am not interested in eating meat that is processed in such a way that it needs ammonia to make it safe. "This is not a health issue," said Bill Marler, a prominent food safety lawyer. "This is an 'I'm grossed out by this' issue."
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    Well I think all ingredients not being equal is what makes homemade burgers better. Better ingredients = better taste.

    I agree with you in general that homemade burgers are better than fast food burgers. Had a bite of my OH's BK burger due to threads like this and didn't even seem like the same food to me.

    However, in the interest of buying humanely raised beef, I have experimented with various brands of hamburger that comes vacuum-sealed and they range from "can only use in enchiladas" to "am going to give the rest of the package to my mother to feed to her dog."

    So, I have to drive a little farther to find hamburger that is both humanely raised and freshly ground, which makes a big difference in taste.

    And if I want to drive farther and spend more money I will get a burger made from wagyu ground beef. OMG, is this delish!
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I am 44 yrs old and spent most of my life in NY, one of the capitals of pizza, and I don't know anyone who would eat a whole pie in one sitting. We order 2 pies (16 slices) for 5 adults and a toddler and usually have 4 or 5 slices left to eat cold for breakfast the next day.

    NY slices are famously big. How many calories per slice?

    I am wondering how people would even know. I mean sure, if I made it, but with something I got at a local restaurant I have no clue how many calories. I'd normally estimate 1000 for a meal out with pizza and salad and I lost on schedule in weeks where I had pizza.

    One piece of Lou Malnatis (which I have sometimes and had more when I was not paying attention to calories) is 232 (the small pizza, a Lou). I would normally have 2-3 pieces. That's a perfectly sensible meal. The problem is that I might also split a dessert or an appetizer or have too much for other meals, and those are things I don't do now.

    A piece of deep dish Lou Malnati's is 232 calories? I would have thought any deep dish Chicago style pizza would be much higher. A slice of Domino's pizza is roughly 200 calories, then plus whatever toppings someone adds...

  • Chef_Barbell
    Chef_Barbell Posts: 6,644 Member
    Wynterbourne wrote: »
    Chef_Barbell wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    annacole94 wrote: »
    I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.

    Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.

    Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.

    *both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.

    Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza. :grimace:

    Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.

    Cause Domino's doesn't have anything that's even close to my homemade caramelized onions, honey chèvre, smoked almonds, and drizzle of balsamic reduction on top of Alton Brown's pizza dough crust pizza. :wink:

    htq6k255iq4w.jpg

    That does not look appetizing at all, but that's the beauty of differences. What you may like I may not but I will not say that it isn't food or any of the other things I have heard about various fast food places.
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
    Tacklewasher wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm one who would eat a large sized deep-dish pizza. All in one sitting with a 2L bottle of Pepsi. Meat lovers no less. Gave me heartburn, but worth every minute of it. I often would just sleep downstairs so I didn't have to bother the wife with getting Gaviscon every 1/2 hour.

    Guess what I had last night. 1/2 a thin crust meat lovers pizza. Gonna have the other half tonight. Oh and I had a micro-brewed beer with it last night and will probably have a Guinness with it tonight. No heartburn, no gaviscon and it fits into my calories.

    I'm happy with it.

    I'm having half an amys tonight (veggie "sausage" mushrooms and veggies etc) for dinner while we watch The Flash musical episode. I could easily eat an 18" pizza, however, I do not think most people do and I did that even when I was thin. I gained weight after I didn't walk for 5 months. I was able to eat whole pizzas occasionally and maintain a healthy weight. So yeah.
  • Chef_Barbell
    Chef_Barbell Posts: 6,644 Member
    HG210 wrote: »
    This whole thread almost had me thinking I don't like pizza. SMH. I'm out! Good day

    Then why did you eat it? I am so confused. :huh:
This discussion has been closed.

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