"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
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kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".
I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.
How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.
Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.
You both illustrate my point perfectly.
If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
Yep, just about everyone...
You make a lot of blanket statements about people that do not seem to mesh with anything I have ever seen. I am sorry, but no, just about everyone is not eating the whole pizza. My experience has been that most people could not even stomach a whole pizza. Maybe I am the minority here, but most people I know only eat a few slices of pizza per meal. The only person I know that can eat that much in one sitting is my brother who happens to be 6'3" 350lbs and is very (and happily) obese.
How many calories in your whole pizzas? Ours have 1280 and when my OH's brother's family is in town, on Pizza Night, several of them will eat a whole pizza and no one but me has less than 5 pieces. (8 pieces in a pizza.)
I will get the numbers for you, and let you know, but I can assure you it is nowhere near that much. Then again, I do not pile toppings on top of mine. And, in that case, that would make you the exception, not the rule. As you can see from the many people that have posted after me, very few people seem to eat whole pizzas in one sitting. Even so, that would equate to 1280, not 1600 as was mentioned.
People on this thread talking about eating moderate amounts of pizza are talking about their strategy now that they are working to lose or maintain weight. I bet if we asked how many pizza calories they consumed when they were gaining weight the answers wouldn't be as moderate.
I honestly didn't eat that much pizza when I was over-weight and I've never eaten a whole large+ pizza. A whole personal pizza sure, but one meant for four people? Nope. Never happened.
You do realize something as simple as 50 calories over maintenance makes you gain weight right? Not everyone who is fat is fat because they are throwing pizzas and ice cream in the blender and sucking down four a day. Just going from a retail job to a desk job without reducing your calorie intake to compensate can cause you to gain. Not all overweight people shovel in food.4 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt
There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...
But people DO say that. I've seen very few people claiming they've cut out ALL "junk" food. Sure, if you're getting tips from a self proclaimed "clean" eater maybe. But the vast majority of people who give advice on this board, literally say... I save room for it in my macros, I budget my calories for it, I fit it in, I plan for it.6 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I am 44 yrs old and spent most of my life in NY, one of the capitals of pizza, and I don't know anyone who would eat a whole pie in one sitting. We order 2 pies (16 slices) for 5 adults and a toddler and usually have 4 or 5 slices left to eat cold for breakfast the next day.
NY slices are famously big. How many calories per slice?
The pizzas they make for selling by the slice are typically bigger than the largest size they'll make to order.snowflake954 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".
I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.
How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.
Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.
You both illustrate my point perfectly.
If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
Yep, just about everyone...
Guess what--I live in Italy and people regularly eat a whole pizza, and they are usually skinny too. How do you explain that?
Chances are, the pizzas are smaller than a typical American pizza.
They're roughly 13-14" round. I kid you not. We go out for pizza once or twice a week (my husband loves it, and is skinny) and the Italians are all chowing down on a whole pizza + starters + dessert. They are thin.
That's actually a very small pizza, unless you really meant across. But I'm sure the very thin crust has a little something to do with it too. (I'm familiar with this style of pizza because there's a restaurant in my area that specializes in actual Neapolitan pizza. Folks are often surprised by what they get.)0 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...
I've been here 4.5 years roughly...I see this being said all of the time. I say it myself.
Not every single post is going to dive into all kinds of detail, nor should they have to. People can also exercise common sense...and look at other posts.6 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...
But people DO say that. I've seen very few people claiming they've cut out ALL "junk" food. Sure, if you're getting tips from a self proclaimed "clean" eater maybe. But the vast majority of people who give advice on this board, literally say... I save room for it in my macros, I budget my calories for it, I fit it in, I plan for it.
And to add further - when someone is genuinely asking what successful people have done, they open their diaries, or break it down. People hold themselves accountable here, at least the people giving sound advice. There's no cloak and dagger BS going on.
ETA: I am in, no way shape or form, downgrading or criticizing anyone's contributions who keep their diary private. I just picked a common parameter/talking point to further what I was trying to say: that people on here are not hiding or lying or covering up how they do things. Diary is a common factor for us all on MFP and that's why my mind went to that example first.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I am 44 yrs old and spent most of my life in NY, one of the capitals of pizza, and I don't know anyone who would eat a whole pie in one sitting. We order 2 pies (16 slices) for 5 adults and a toddler and usually have 4 or 5 slices left to eat cold for breakfast the next day.
NY slices are famously big. How many calories per slice?
The pizzas they make for selling by the slice are typically bigger than the largest size they'll make to order.snowflake954 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »MontyMuttland wrote: »"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".
I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.
How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.
Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.
You both illustrate my point perfectly.
If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
Yep, just about everyone...
Guess what--I live in Italy and people regularly eat a whole pizza, and they are usually skinny too. How do you explain that?
Chances are, the pizzas are smaller than a typical American pizza.
They're roughly 13-14" round. I kid you not. We go out for pizza once or twice a week (my husband loves it, and is skinny) and the Italians are all chowing down on a whole pizza + starters + dessert. They are thin.
That's actually a very small pizza, unless you really meant across. But I'm sure the very thin crust has a little something to do with it too. (I'm familiar with this style of pizza because there's a restaurant in my area that specializes in actual Neapolitan pizza. Folks are often surprised by what they get.)
I mean 14" across and a naples pizza is not a thin crust.2 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...
Mostly time and energy. We spend our time on these boards in the way that we choose. For instance, I'm only spending my time to lurk and post in this one thread (which I should really get out of anyway). I have no obligation to enter into other threads and provide advice. If I do enter into them, I get to choose how long I stay, how many questions I answer, and how much energy I put into composing my replies. Some days I have the energy to compose longer replies than others. If you have endless energy to post, I'm super glad. But I do not.
It is time consuming to help even one newbie. There's a reason I don't take friend requests anymore. There's a reason I don't go back to check on old posts to see if a newbie has gotten around to answering my questions two days later (about 50% of them won't come back to their posts at all). Posting copy/paste or quick advice and hoping that others will fill in the blanks if I've left something out (or if there's more information in a second thread or post history, etc). let's me see and respond to more posts than spending all of my time with one person who may not even come back to see my reply.
Honestly, I cannot fathom how you have the energy to care THIS MUCH about how the rest of us reply here. You have the option to follow us around and fill in the blanks on as many posts as you want to. If we have an obligation to post exactly what you want us to post, then what obligation do you have to this community? What obligation to newbies have to it? Why are the veterans here, who've explained this over and over again in this very thread directly to you, the only people you get riled up enough to go after to fulfill this mythical quest of providing the perfect piece of advice for each and every poster who comes here? We aren't your guru. We have no obligation to teach you the meaning of life. You do have to do some of the work on that yourself.22 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
The truth about what people are really eating. Not falsely claiming they eat WHATEVER they want, WHENEVER they want...
I do eat whatever I want whenever I want. And it's mostly *gasp* good for me. To be honest, I was never a huge junk food eater. I was (and still am) an emotional eater, a boredom eater, an introvert who has a hard time with small talk and gravitates to the food table so I'm not just standing around looking lost. I put on weight by not controlling portions, by assuming that most desserts and high-calorie options were evil, evil, evil and therefore, once I cracked and indulged myself, the day was already ruined and I might as well eat, drink, and be merry (merry until I realized I'd gone back for fourths at the buffet table anyway).
So now, I do eat whatever I want, whenever I want, within my calories. I plan my indulgences. Sometimes I have a lighter lunch to make room for cake. Sometimes I do 45 minutes on a ski machine or take a two-hour walk. Sometimes I do both. And there are some foods I can't moderate unless I don't have the option of going back for more. (I'll go to a bulk store and weigh out 23 grams of jelly beans, because if I buy a big bag, even if I portion it out, I know that I will keep grabbing more servings. If all I have in the house is 23 grams, the temptation is gone.) But the mindless nibbling and grazing, the 'Hey, look! Fruit and nuts are healthy so I can have three of these cranberry-almond-oat-and-honey bars! And Terra chips are from root vegetables, so they've got to be low-cal too, right?!' delusion? That's gone. It takes a bit of juggling to have room for treats, and sometimes it means deciding that the treat isn't worth it, or that I won't have as much of it as I thought. But I hope I've finally stopped demonizing foods. Indulgences aren't evil. Treats don't have to be cheats. And I've lost 44 lbs this way and still going.5 -
Lol, guess you didn't ace chemistry class. You do know they've used SALT (yes even "organic" sea salt) as a preservative for CENTURIES now?AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Preservatives are chemicals to make your food last longer. This is not natural. Food should spoil when it spoils. You should not be injecting it with stuff to make it last longer.
You CAN eat whatever you want to lose weight. It's NOT the best approach, however the issue that arises from the diet and fitness industry is that anything not "clean" or "unprocessed" should be avoided at all costs. And that's just not the truth. Again, there are so many other industrialized countries that consume processed products and DON'T have an weight or obesity issue in their populations. In fact, I'll even say that once many of them migrate to the US, they GAIN weight within the first 5 years just due to OVEREATING.So glad you clarified the following because most people tend to leave it at 'you can eat WHATEVER you want'
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Actually I listed a whole list of chemicals found in food following that post to back up my claim. There are natural preservatives as well, but there are a host of non-natural ones that you will find way more prevalent throughout your pantry. You just happened to miss my post.
And actually I got A's in all my science classes
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My profile picture is obviously lying then ... I eat what I want - not all the time I grant you, but if I fancy chocolate I eat it, if we fancy Chinese we go for it ... I love food and I eat plenty of it, my diet is quite rich in protein and fibre, it is also moderately clean (it kind of has to be as I'm lactose & wheat intolerant and suffer from fructose malabsorption) but I definitely don't avoid certain foods because they're deemed high in fat or carb rich - if I like it, I eat it in moderation ... I'm partial to red wine and dark chocolate and they're both in my diet several times a week ... Like I said, my profile picture is obviously lying ... Oh and my bloods have also come back from the hospital saying I'm in great shape - medically fitter than I've ever been, but the camera is obviously lying ... So were Buckfizz, they sang that their camera never lied - they were clearly wrong ... !!1
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Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »
If they say it so much, please provide just one quote of someone claiming that moderation is strictly defined as "eating a little every day" and doesn't apply to the approach of moderating frequency of consumption.ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Right here! I would rather have a lot of food than a little bit. If I have some teensy-weensy, tee-niney, pigmy sized pea shaped piece of something magically delicious I will not be satisfied. I save the junk for when I REALLY want it. I may blow my calories that day but man is it ever worth it when I do! Some people really are content with two Oreos or a half-cup of ice cream. I I eat that and it's gonna be on like Donkey-Kong.
I consider this a form of moderation too, though.
One form is eat a serving (or whatever amount regularly fits in your calories) more regularly. For example, I went through a stage where I had about 200 calories for dessert every night. I'd have ice cream or cheese usually, or else a more indulgent dinner.
Another is a rare blow out. There are some things I'm not interested in eating in moderation or are hard to fit -- a Mexican restaurant, Indian restaurant, Ethiopian restaurant, rare multi-course tasting menu at a new place, maybe. So I do them more rarely (at maintenance it doesn't have to be that rarely, as I tend to do a weekend long run and long bike, but depends), but when I do them I don't try to fit a calorie goal or skip the naan and get the tandoori chicken and so on. I eat what I want and without really worrying about it and since it's not something I do weekly regardless of workout it doesn't matter. It's a form of moderation. If I felt like that about ice cream or cake (I really don't, I'd rather just have a sensible amount and not overdo), then I'd follow a similar schedule there. But I wouldn't claim that meant "eat what you want within your calories" didn't work, since that would still be what I was doing.
I love pie, I have it basically on holidays only anymore, because baking it is a bad idea unless I have other people to eat it, and because if I bake it I will want more than a piece. I haven't cut out pie and wouldn't tell anyone else you need to cut out pie. 'Cause that's not so, even though I don't eat much pie anymore.
Moderation comes in many forms. I choose to abstain more often. However the kind of moderation most often referred to around here is the "make it fit on a daily basis" moderation.
Then why do so many posts advocating for moderation say "sure, you can have X just maybe not every day?"
Because there are so many thousands of comments on these boards you will easily find "so many" of almost anything if you look for it. Many push making it fit daily, many advocate a cheat day, many advocate saving it for one when you just want it so bad you don't want to resist. You tell me why so many different views, opinions and ways of eating exist. There are many different types of people on these boards is the likely answer.
You're projecting when you say what other people mean by "moderation."
As a strong supporter of moderating, I would tell you that moderation entails controlling portion sizes on some foods and frequency of intake on others. Which foods fall into which category varies by individual. Also, moderation via control of frequency could mean only having one a day vs three a day or it could mean only having that item once a week or it could mean only having that food on holidays/special occasions.
Considering that you feel so strongly that the majority of moderation proponents on MFP think of moderation only as fitting treats into each and every day, I challenge you to find 3 frequent posters who support the concept of moderation but disagree with my definition above.
When a person says what they mean, and they say it a LOT around here I am repeating not projecting. I speak on what I see. You don't even have to like it.
Please go read for yourself. I am not going to sift through threads or quotes to help you see what you likely already see but refuse to admit to seeing. This whole thread has turned into a neighborhood brawl in the most absurd way. Enjoy the rest of your stay here on this endlessly growing MFP rumble.
I've spent a lot of time on these forums and participated in countless of these discussions. I've never once noted a single instance of anyone stating or even insinuating that frequency isn't a valid method of moderation.
I have seen people make straw man claims like yours that "moderators" argue you should eat some "junk food" everyday. I've also seen those claims frequently denied.
I did not argue about what people say is a "valid" form of moderation. I said what I have seen a lot of. You are arguing what hasn't been disputed. Moderation means something different to me than it does to you, maybe it means something for you that it does not mean for that guy over there. I even said, "Moderation comes in many forms." And you "challenge" me to decide who you would consider a frequent enough poster and then quote them so I can then receive a warning from the moderators for doing so? NO THANKS! I take you back to my previous comment. GO SEARCH FOR THIS YOURSELF. You will only read into any comment what you choose the same as everyone else here. So yeah. Go forth and read every comment on every post and let me know what you dig up.1 -
Just to be clear, there may be reasons not related to accountability why people don't open up their diaries. (Not that you were saying otherwise.)And to add further - when someone is genuinely asking what successful people have done, they open their diaries, or break it down. People hold themselves accountable here, at least the people giving sound advice. There's no cloak and dagger BS going on.
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I'd also like to note, that due to changes in my health and circumstances that lead to me needing to lose weight (no longer just wanting) mean I actually eat more fast food and take away than I did before. No hungrier even though I'm eating quite a bit less. Go figure.1
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I agree with you. I think this makes about six of us relative newcomers who read the OP's post one way, while a lot of veterans read it differently. I hope it's helpful to see that even though one interpretation seems unreasonable to a veteran, this is exactly how a lot of newcomers interpret it. Unreasonable or not, it's reality. I mention it just as something to remember.diannethegeek wrote: »... I'm honestly not trying to be snarky here, but I feel like some people and I read completely different posts here.
I know several people interpreted my posts as trashing everyone's efforts. That's not my intention and I hope it didn't come across that way to you. I'm grateful for the effort everyone has put in to try to help us. I don't think that's what most of the other newcomers think either. We (I think) don't read the OP as aimed at you or even at veterans - just at general advice-givers.The OP reads to me less as an attempt to help people and more as a series of digs at those of us giving advice on the forum when the OP doesn't seem to do it themselves.
Anyway, thanks for your helpful posts and advice!
It absolutely did come across that way to me. And if the OP wasn't aimed at me, the veterans, or anyone else participating in this thread, then maybe they shouldn't have used the word "you" quite so often.6 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Lol, guess you didn't ace chemistry class. You do know they've used SALT (yes even "organic" sea salt) as a preservative for CENTURIES now?AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Preservatives are chemicals to make your food last longer. This is not natural. Food should spoil when it spoils. You should not be injecting it with stuff to make it last longer.
You CAN eat whatever you want to lose weight. It's NOT the best approach, however the issue that arises from the diet and fitness industry is that anything not "clean" or "unprocessed" should be avoided at all costs. And that's just not the truth. Again, there are so many other industrialized countries that consume processed products and DON'T have an weight or obesity issue in their populations. In fact, I'll even say that once many of them migrate to the US, they GAIN weight within the first 5 years just due to OVEREATING.So glad you clarified the following because most people tend to leave it at 'you can eat WHATEVER you want'
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Actually I listed a whole list of chemicals found in food following that post to back up my claim. There are natural preservatives as well, but there are a host of non-natural ones that you will find way more prevalent throughout your pantry. You just happened to miss my post.
And actually I got A's in all my science classes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature5 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...
But people DO say that. I've seen very few people claiming they've cut out ALL "junk" food. Sure, if you're getting tips from a self proclaimed "clean" eater maybe. But the vast majority of people who give advice on this board, literally say... I save room for it in my macros, I budget my calories for it, I fit it in, I plan for it.
And to add further - when someone is genuinely asking what successful people have done, they open their diaries, or break it down. People hold themselves accountable here, at least the people giving sound advice. There's no cloak and dagger BS going on.
I wouldn't consider an open/closed diary the ultimate barometer of someone's advice, necessarily.
I was diary stalked on here once under my original account and have no desire to go through that nonsense again. I'm happy to discuss what I eat, but I like to keep my diary closed because that keeps me more accountable to me as well. I'm more likely to keep accurate records if it's private.
Other people, some who have been known to give really great advice, also keep their diaries private. I think you can usually discern good advice from bad after reading around for a while and getting a feel for who generally makes sense most of the time.
I know that's how I learned a lot when I first started posting here a few years ago.11 -
I thought "you" was referring to us, the new people who were new and might be confused. Thus all the talk about what advice people were going to be giving us. E.g.,diannethegeek wrote: »It absolutely did come across that way to me. And if the OP wasn't aimed at me, the veterans, or anyone else participating in this thread, then maybe they shouldn't have used the word "you" quite so often.
I thought that's what he was getting at, anyway.So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
0 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
The truth about what people are really eating. Not falsely claiming they eat WHATEVER they want, WHENEVER they want...
I do eat whatever I want whenever I want. And it's mostly *gasp* good for me. To be honest, I was never a huge junk food eater. I was (and still am) an emotional eater, a boredom eater, an introvert who has a hard time with small talk and gravitates to the food table so I'm not just standing around looking lost. I put on weight by not controlling portions, by assuming that most desserts and high-calorie options were evil, evil, evil and therefore, once I cracked and indulged myself, the day was already ruined and I might as well eat, drink, and be merry (merry until I realized I'd gone back for fourths at the buffet table anyway).
So now, I do eat whatever I want, whenever I want, within my calories. I plan my indulgences. Sometimes I have a lighter lunch to make room for cake. Sometimes I do 45 minutes on a ski machine or take a two-hour walk. Sometimes I do both. And there are some foods I can't moderate unless I don't have the option of going back for more. (I'll go to a bulk store and weigh out 23 grams of jelly beans, because if I buy a big bag, even if I portion it out, I know that I will keep grabbing more servings. If all I have in the house is 23 grams, the temptation is gone.) But the mindless nibbling and grazing, the 'Hey, look! Fruit and nuts are healthy so I can have three of these cranberry-almond-oat-and-honey bars! And Terra chips are from root vegetables, so they've got to be low-cal too, right?!' delusion? That's gone. It takes a bit of juggling to have room for treats, and sometimes it means deciding that the treat isn't worth it, or that I won't have as much of it as I thought. But I hope I've finally stopped demonizing foods. Indulgences aren't evil. Treats don't have to be cheats. And I've lost 44 lbs this way and still going.
Pretty much the same here. I eat what I want, but I plan ahead. If I know I'm going to have a night out at the sushi bar with my friends, I make sure that I've burned an extra 300 kcal the day before and the day after to make up for the spike in calories I will have on a night as such. It's good to have fun. Ultimately, I'm not getting into great shape to just be sober all the time and never enjoy time with my friends. It just has to be in moderation.
Also, I made a habit out of making myself a greatly filling snack: 0% fat Greek Yogurt, oatmeal, walnuts, honey and a bit of cinnamon, make sure to mix well, and it's freaking heavenly! I loved ice creams and desserts, and if I can have a relatively healthy and filling alternative that's easy to make and relatively cheap, why shouldn't I pick it over Ben & Jerries, right? Also, I have the problem that I can't stop eating gummy mixes (winegums, gummy bears, etc. - I have to eat the whole bag cause I have a severe lack of character when it comes to these candies), so I limit myself to one purchase of those kind of things a week. Went from 95 kg in August to 77.2 kg currently, and never felt stronger! 3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.
They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...
The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying
Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.
I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...
But people DO say that. I've seen very few people claiming they've cut out ALL "junk" food. Sure, if you're getting tips from a self proclaimed "clean" eater maybe. But the vast majority of people who give advice on this board, literally say... I save room for it in my macros, I budget my calories for it, I fit it in, I plan for it.
And to add further - when someone is genuinely asking what successful people have done, they open their diaries, or break it down. People hold themselves accountable here, at least the people giving sound advice. There's no cloak and dagger BS going on.
I wouldn't consider an open/closed diary the ultimate barometer of someone's advice, necessarily.
I was diary stalked on here once under my original account and have no desire to go through that nonsense again. I'm happy to discuss what I eat, but I like to keep my diary closed because that keeps me more accountable to me as well. I'm more likely to keep accurate records if it's private.
Other people, some who have been known to give really great advice, also keep their diaries private. I think you can usually discern good advice from bad after reading around for a while and getting a feel for who generally makes sense most of the time.
I know that's how I learned a lot when I first started posting here a few years ago.
Fair enough I definitely, agree with being able to discern good advice from bad. I've learned a lot from the forums as well, and I contribute some of my success to that advice and veteran members I learned from.
ETA: I've amended my original post.1 -
I
so, what you're saying is that you do not agree with op. you eat what you want, you lose weight, you just feel better when you eat "good" food. [/quote
OP" I agree with you". That is exactly what I said. I think the advice is garbage as well, but, I understand that some people actually most people are here to lose weight. It's not they want to be clean eaters, they use MFP to lose weight as a guide and nothing more. Nothing more and nothing less and there is nothing wrong with that.
However, if you want to be healthy overall and that is important to you than clean eating would be a better way to go. It's not that hard but if that is what your mind is conditioned to it may be hard for you.
I like a little junk food sometimes. However, I don't generally eat that way. SO, I'll say it again. I feel bad when I eat it.
The issue is that's not the topic. OP is saying one can NOT eat what they want and lose weight even if they stay under their calorie goal. There is no opinion here. That is FALSE. OP is wrong and going against science itself. Unless the person has a medical condition or is estimating their maintenance calories incorrectly when choosing their deficit they can eat whatever they like within their calorie goal and lose weight. This is a *FACT* not an opinion so you can agree all you want, but you'd be wrong. Whether it's healthy or not isn't relevant and wasn't the original point.0
This discussion has been closed.
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