"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.

HeliumIsNoble · March 2017

Chilled Pizza Express margheritas are pretty low in calories and UK-based supermarket Tesco sells pizzas with carrot mixed into the dough, for kids.

southernoregongrape · March 2017

lemurcat12 wrote: »

This is the kind of cat I have:

Pretty cat. Ours is about 14 years old, blind, and overly fond of treats over her expensive cat food. But I figure she is happy even if overweight and the vet says she is healthy.

dfwesq · March 2017

diannethegeek wrote: »

Did you ever get around to this, @dfwesq? Because I would nominate it for a sticky in a heartbeat if you could get something together. Since you're the expert and everything.

No, the post you're quoting isn't visible to me.

kimny72 · March 2017

dfwesq wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

The problem is that we are reading it in context, thinking of the threads in which we've given such advice.

Yes, very likely. New members will not know what you're thinking of though, nor will we have seen all of those threads even if we did a lot of background reading. So we'd read it differently.

Also, you aren't saying that YOU were confused. You are assuming that other people (much more ignorant than you, I guess) might be confused. Maybe that assumption is problematic?

I might be wrong that there's some connection between what answers people are given and whether they are confused. But I have seen people who actually are confused - or at least, they're eating what seems like a rather unhealthy diet. Whether that's because they're confused or because they don't care as long as they're losing weight, it's hard to say.

Fwiw, I was confused by what a number of posts (elsewhere on the board) meant. They certainly sounded like it truly made no difference what someone ate, as long as they met their calorie goals.

So you looked at people's diaries, saw they were eating mostly junk, and assumed they were doing so because people on the forum say to eat whatever you want and decided it was the forum's fault they eat that way?

For weight loss, it DOES NOT MATTER what you eat, as long as you hit your calorie goal. For satiety and for health, obviously you need to make smart choices and eat enough nutritionally balanced foods.

VintageFeline · March 2017

Back!

For full disclosure I am in the UK. I will link to each pizza I look at so you can check I have not doctored anything.

First up, Sainsburys own veggie thin crust:

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/sainsburys-thin---crispy-vegetable-pizza-320g

366 calories per half pizza

Ingredients

Pizza Base (Wheat Flour, Water, Rapeseed Oil, Yeast, Salt), Tomato Sauce (Water, Tomato Purée, Cornflour, Sugar, Sunflower Oil, Basil, Salt, White Wine Vinegar, Sundried Tomatoes, Garlic Puree, Garlic Powder, Yeast Extract, Black Pepper, Tomato Paste, Tomato Powder, Cheese Powder (Cows' Milk), Flavouring, Marjoram, Thyme, Oregano, Garlic, Rosemary, Acid: Citric Acid), Mozzarella Cheese (16%) (Cows' Milk), Courgettes (7%), Yellow Peppers (3%), Spinach (3%), Red Onions (3%), Pesto Oil (2.5%) (Rapeseed Oil, Palm Oil, Basil, Sunflower Oil, Garlic Purée, Salt, Black Pepper, Acidity Regulator: Citric Acid).

Next, Dr Oetker pepperoni thin crust, one of the more popular ones I think. Cheap.

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/dr-oetker-ristorante-pizza-pepperoni-salame-320g

465 calories per half pizza

Ingredients

Wheat Flour (with Calcium, Iron, Thiamin (B1), Niacin (B3)), Tomato Puree, Pepperoni-Salami (9%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Smoke, Spices, Dextrose, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary)), Mozzarella Cheese (7%), Edam Cheese (7%), Vegetable Oil (Rapeseed, Extra-Virgin Olive Oil), Salami (4%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Spices, Garlic Powder, Onion Powder, Glucose Syrup, Sucrose, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary), Flavouring, Smoke, Dextrose), Yeast, Sugar, Salt, Herbs and Spices, Water, Modified Potato Starch, Chilli Powder, Lemon Juice, Potato Starch, Garlic, Maltodextrin, Dextrose, Pepper Extract

And finally, a Goodfella's chicken. I guess this would be deemed one of the fancier frozen pizzas.

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/goodfellas-stonebaked-thin-roast-chicken-pizza-with-italian-style-dressing-365g

484 calories per half pizza

Wheat Flour, Water, Mozzarella (14%) (Milk), Chicken with added Water (13%) (Chicken, Water, Salt, Maize Starch), Tomatoes (9%), Vegetable Oil: Rapeseed, Herb Dressing (2%) (Vegetable Oils: Rapeseed, Palm; Garlic Puree, Parsley, Marjoram, Thyme, Sage, Black Pepper), Cheddar Cheese (1.5%) (Milk), Yeast, Salt, Sugar, Garlic Puree, Starch, Oregano, Basil, Black Pepper, Marjoram, Parsley, Sage, Thyme

Feel free to point out what amongst that is going to cause my untimely death.

Tacklewasher · March 2017

VintageFeline wrote: »

Back!

For full disclosure I am in the UK. I will link to each pizza I look at so you can check I have not doctored anything.

First up, Sainsburys own veggie thin crust:

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/sainsburys-thin---crispy-vegetable-pizza-320g

366 calories per half pizza

Ingredients

Pizza Base (Wheat Flour, Water, Rapeseed Oil, Yeast, Salt), Tomato Sauce (Water, Tomato Purée, Cornflour, Sugar, Sunflower Oil, Basil, Salt, White Wine Vinegar, Sundried Tomatoes, Garlic Puree, Garlic Powder, Yeast Extract, Black Pepper, Tomato Paste, Tomato Powder, Cheese Powder (Cows' Milk), Flavouring, Marjoram, Thyme, Oregano, Garlic, Rosemary, Acid: Citric Acid), Mozzarella Cheese (16%) (Cows' Milk), Courgettes (7%), Yellow Peppers (3%), Spinach (3%), Red Onions (3%), Pesto Oil (2.5%) (Rapeseed Oil, Palm Oil, Basil, Sunflower Oil, Garlic Purée, Salt, Black Pepper, Acidity Regulator: Citric Acid).

Next, Dr Oetker pepperoni thin crust, one of the more popular ones I think. Cheap.

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/dr-oetker-ristorante-pizza-pepperoni-salame-320g

465 calories per half pizza

Ingredients

Wheat Flour (with Calcium, Iron, Thiamin (B1), Niacin (B3)), Tomato Puree, Pepperoni-Salami (9%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Smoke, Spices, Dextrose, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary)), Mozzarella Cheese (7%), Edam Cheese (7%), Vegetable Oil (Rapeseed, Extra-Virgin Olive Oil), Salami (4%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Spices, Garlic Powder, Onion Powder, Glucose Syrup, Sucrose, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary), Flavouring, Smoke, Dextrose), Yeast, Sugar, Salt, Herbs and Spices, Water, Modified Potato Starch, Chilli Powder, Lemon Juice, Potato Starch, Garlic, Maltodextrin, Dextrose, Pepper Extract

And finally, a Goodfella's chicken. I guess this would be deemed one of the fancier frozen pizzas.

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/goodfellas-stonebaked-thin-roast-chicken-pizza-with-italian-style-dressing-365g

484 calories per half pizza

Wheat Flour, Water, Mozzarella (14%) (Milk), Chicken with added Water (13%) (Chicken, Water, Salt, Maize Starch), Tomatoes (9%), Vegetable Oil: Rapeseed, Herb Dressing (2%) (Vegetable Oils: Rapeseed, Palm; Garlic Puree, Parsley, Marjoram, Thyme, Sage, Black Pepper), Cheddar Cheese (1.5%) (Milk), Yeast, Salt, Sugar, Garlic Puree, Starch, Oregano, Basil, Black Pepper, Marjoram, Parsley, Sage, Thyme

Feel free to point out what amongst that is going to cause my untimely death.

Damn. You qualified it with "untimely". I was ready to jump all over you and inform you that you will die if you eat those.

lemurcat12 · March 2017

Going back to the original post, I would really love to hear a response to this from some of the people who liked it so much (whether as speaking for newbies or what):

jdb3388 wrote: »

People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal.

Why is this a choice -- some higher cal food or a meal? I still don't know what Loco Rice is, and don't like chili cheese fries, but I'd never just have fries on its own or one slice of pizza. I'd have protein and veg with the fries and salad or veg with the pizza (and probably more pizza, depending). If you are eating just these foods you are not doing a very good job at choosing (unless they ARE, in fact, what you want).

More to the point, as the criticism is "eat what you want within your calories," why would you follow it by eating something you don't want? I don't understand that. Yes, you might make a bad choice or two when starting out (or more), but you learn from that what is satisfying and what is not.

I've told this story before, but I know a woman who really did only eat fast food (she knew it was a bad idea, but did not want to change, but she did want to lose weight -- had about 100 lb to lose). She started by just changing her orders some and lost. As she lost, she got more interested in doing some cooking and expanding her menu and did, and I suspect part of this was needing more filling food (and part of it, I think, was feeling good and letting go to some extent of the "don't tell me what I should be eating" attitude that she was expressing with the fast food). By the end she was still eating more fast food than some would think was a good idea, but a much more balanced, healthful diet overall. And she lost the weight she needed to lose.

If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more.

I am still puzzled about where on MFP people think they are being told to eat all junk food. If you ARE eating all junk food and know you shouldn't be, isn't it easy to change (and isn't that something you WANT to do)? I mean yes, changing habits can be hard and there's lots of help for that, but you know what to do, right? No one is preventing you from having that knowledge or saying to keep eating 100% junk food.

Also, I am curious if people who think this is good advice themselves ate all junk food and thought they should keep doing that? Seems more likely to me that this is a rather uncharitable assumption being made about others, that other people eat 100% junk food and are too silly to figure out other food might add to nutrition and satiety.

Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved.

This is fascinating to me, since it assumes food that you should be eating doesn't taste so good, food that you want to eat is different and does taste good (and personally I think we have very different tastes). IMO, little tastes as good as salmon, asparagus, and some roasted sweet potato, for example, or lots of other quite nutritionally sound meals (including good pizza). I'd say realizing you can be satisfied and eat delicious meals while on a deficit, that you don't have to eat only boring "diet" food (and yes, that homecooked food and vegetables can be delicious) are important to making dieting easier. There's no conflict in my mind between what I want and a nutritionally sound diet (well, occasionally, and then I make an exception, fit it in, whatever).

There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person.

I remember perfectly well what it was like to live as a fat person.

So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.

So are the people agreeing under the belief that you can NEVER have junk food? Not just you (what you do is your business), but everyone else too, since this post is directed more generally at all of us.

savithny · March 2017

cwolfman13 wrote: »

TyFit1908 wrote: »

VintageFeline wrote: »

TyFit1908 wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

TyFit1908 wrote: »

Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits

Who has said there is something wrong with adopting healthier habits? How is that even related to what OP said.

If I "eat what I want within my calories," what I want might be affected by healthy habits I have or am working on.

I wonder if the people who keep assuming that "eat what you want" = unhealthy realize that it's really quite possible to want to eat a healthful diet. Not to just do so because you think it's necessary for weight loss, but because you want to and like the food.

For you eating what you want may mean a healthy diet, but many who are counting calories to lose weight probably wouldn't be here, if healthy items were their first choice. They certainly aren't mine. I didn't read all the comments, since there are 25 pages, but eating what you want, but staying within calories may not equal healthy either. Processed foods have tons of sodium, which is not great for anyone, definitely not for someone with high blood pressure or heart disease.

It takes time to want to eat healthy things for some people. That could mean limiting or eliminating some foods from your diet completely. That is after all the goal, to want to eat healthy. For some people, it is just not realistic to achieve that, if they just ate whatever they want.

Well, I was fat and I actually ate really healthily. I was over liberal with cooking oils sometimes and portions often. So the advice to reduce portions within my calories is totally applicable.

This assumption that fat people don't like healthy food is as ridiculous as the assertion those who advise of moderation never make any mention of nutrition ever.

Great for you to already make healthy choices and only having to worry about portion control. You are an exception to the rule. It is unfortunate that you don't recognize that others may have to learn to make healthy choices as well as portion control. I think it is ridiculous to assume that everyone struggling with weight really like healthy food, just because you did. I don't understand the purpose of debating the merit in making healthy choices or what constitutes healthy choices, since that is why many choose to come to MFP in the first place. For some making healthy choices is easy, for others it is a huge undertaking and may require changing the way they approach food. So for the latter group, eating what they want when they want, might not be the best advice.

I don't think anyone is debating the merit of making healthy choices...I'd say the vast majority of us make healthy choices and have had to make changes to our diets.

That said, I've been here 4.5 years roughly...I've never seen anyone go the all or nothing route and have long term success...they're usually "on and off the wagon" and make themselves miserable and ultimately do nothing in the end...

I think it's also pretty interesting that the vast majority of people posting here about including things in moderation and taking a bit more of a relaxed dietary approach also happen to be long term veterans of the site and have had a lot of success both in losing weight and maintaining weight long term...but yeah, we don't know what the hell we're talking about and just give *kitten* advice.

The all or nothing approach is often part of that same pseudo-religious take on eating that defines foods as either "good" or "bad" and also defines them as "treats" or "punishments." And since "healthy" foods are also "punishments" and the "bad" foods are rewards, you wind up with a "conflicted Catholic in the 50s" mentality about eating.

The very fact that someone could look at a food diary full of "healthy" food and think that it means that people aren't eating "what they want, when they want it" illustrates this.

If you look at my food diary you'll see that I've had several types of cookie as an after-dinner treat over the past week. I made a pie for Pi Day. There was a big wedge of brie with dinner this weekend, and I had THREE OREOS at coffee hour after church. Look I fit "junk" fit into my plan!

During the same time, I also ate several huge servings of cabbage, dinner last Friday was a bowl of vegan cauliflower soup, Sunday dinner was chicken breasts, baked sweet potatoes, and broccoli. Does that mean that I don't eat "What I want?" No, it just means that I LIKE those things too, I know they're good for me and satisfying, and I can fit both them AND the pie into my calorie budget.

If you think that the healthy things in my diary mean I'm not eating what I want? That means you think that NO ONE would ever eat healthy things voluntarily. And what kind of nonsense is that? That's nonsense that leads to falling off the wagon, binging, and yo-yo dieting.

kimny72 · March 2017

I went to the Google for "Loco Rice" and got nothing. It makes me think of Pollo Loco, which is Mexican chicken & rice, which can have a lot of gooey cheesiness, so maybe it's something like that?

lemurcat12 · March 2017

dfwesq wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

The problem is that we are reading it in context, thinking of the threads in which we've given such advice.

Yes, very likely. New members will not know what you're thinking of though, nor will we have seen all of those threads even if we did a lot of background reading. So we'd read it differently.

You are misunderstanding. You are making some assumptions based on (false) claims made by OP. (BTW, I did a detailed response just now and would love your response to it.)

I am talking about the ACTUAL answers in threads such as "can I eat some bad foods and still lose weight" or "hypothetically, could I eat ANYTHING and lose if I was within my calories" or the like. Those threads NEVER lack the context that you keep claiming is not given, namely that of course food choice matters for nutrition and satiety. (I may tattoo this on my forehead before this thread is over!)

Also, you aren't saying that YOU were confused. You are assuming that other people (much more ignorant than you, I guess) might be confused. Maybe that assumption is problematic?

I might be wrong that there's some connection between what answers people are given and whether they are confused.[/quote]

So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused? Or, again, are you assuming that fat people are reading answers and thinking "yay, only McD's fries, then." Because honestly that last strikes me as pretty offensive and inaccurate (speaking as a former fat person who was not stupid and understood nutrition).

But I have seen people who actually are confused - or at least, they're eating what seems like a rather unhealthy diet. Whether that's because they're confused or because they don't care as long as they're losing weight, it's hard to say.

Seen them where? Maybe link a thread or, you know, post in it and un-confuse them. That's what I would do, not start a thread about how everyone else supposedly gives garbage advice.

Fwiw, I was confused by what a number of posts (elsewhere on the board) meant. They certainly sounded like it truly made no difference what someone ate, as long as they met their calorie goals.

Again, if you have a TDEE of 2100 and eat 1600 of whatever, you will lose weight. That is just a fact, and it's useful to understand. Does that mean that I think it doesn't matter what you eat or that you are equally likely to stick to your 1600, no matter what you eat? No. If this is confusing to you, I'm really not sure why but would love to answer questions about it (as I would if this were a thread in which I was giving advice). If anything, I think my weakness is over-explaining -- just read me in any of the sugar threads, LOL.

lemurcat12 · March 2017

southernoregongrape wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

This is the kind of cat I have:

Pretty cat. Ours is about 14 years old, blind, and overly fond of treats over her expensive cat food. But I figure she is happy even if overweight and the vet says she is healthy.

That's not actually my cat, although I agree he's pretty. I was referring to the naughty behavior. My naughty cat is the one in my avatar -- Trevor. He's super active and loves to play and is just the right weight. He's 6.

My older cat is 11, Ajax, and he has a weight problem that we are working on. He's also lazy, but adorable and happy.

lemurcat12 · March 2017

Ajax cheering for the Cubs (he's not a very good fan)

4legsRbetterthan2 · March 2017

If you think that the healthy things in my diary mean I'm not eating what I want? That means you think that NO ONE would ever eat healthy things voluntarily. And what kind of nonsense is that? That's nonsense that leads to falling off the wagon, binging, and yo-yo dieting.

Admittedly, that is not something I ever really thought of in relation to posters here, and probably should when discussing this on forums. I easily get fruit since I enjoy it, but have a harder time getting veggies in sometimes. My husband on the other hand will not eat a fruit or veggie... period....end of story. People like this do exist.

dfwesq · March 2017

lemurcat12 wrote: »

So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused?

Maybe I've misunderstood about what the rules are, but I saw someone else post something to the effect that we're not allowed to go around the boards quoting from other threads. Am I allowed to do that?

Fwiw, I'm not focused on "eat only junk food". A diet doesn't have to be 100% junk to be unhealthy. I'm not sure I could put a percentage on it, but eating a substantial amount of junk food each day can't be good for you either, and I see lots of posts from people saying they eat that way. (I'm pretty sure I shouldn't clip and post those.)

Chef_Barbell · March 2017

dfwesq wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused?

Maybe I've misunderstood about what the rules are, but I saw someone else post something to the effect that we're not allowed to go around the boards quoting from other threads. Am I allowed to do that?

Fwiw, I'm not focused on "eat only junk food". A diet doesn't have to be 100% junk to be unhealthy. I'm not sure I could put a percentage on it, but eating a substantial amount of junk food each day can't be good for you either, and I see lots of posts from people saying they eat that way. (I'm pretty sure I shouldn't clip and post those.)

Yeah... no. How do you know what's good for another person?

VintageFeline · March 2017

dfwesq wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused?

Maybe I've misunderstood about what the rules are, but I saw someone else post something to the effect that we're not allowed to go around the boards quoting from other threads. Am I allowed to do that?

Fwiw, I'm not focused on "eat only junk food". A diet doesn't have to be 100% junk to be unhealthy. I'm not sure I could put a percentage on it, but eating a substantial amount of junk food each day can't be good for you either, and I see lots of posts from people saying they eat that way. (I'm pretty sure I shouldn't clip and post those.)

Depends on your definition of junk, which is a pretty arbitrary term. I've had days when that's all I've eaten (take away food from chain outlets for example, or pizza or a ready meal or two) and have hit my macros and a good amount of micros pretty easily. In fact, sometimes my micros are better because I suck pretty hugely at meting those!

HeliumIsNoble · March 2017

@Savithny- good points, brilliantly made. You've articulated an unease with "bad/good foods" I share, but can never explain well. I wonder, have you ever encountered this short story on 'healthy' eating? It was published over a hundred years ago, and yet remains oddly relevant today.

4legsRbetterthan2 · March 2017

dfwesq wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused?

Maybe I've misunderstood about what the rules are, but I saw someone else post something to the effect that we're not allowed to go around the boards quoting from other threads. Am I allowed to do that?

Fwiw, I'm not focused on "eat only junk food". A diet doesn't have to be 100% junk to be unhealthy. I'm not sure I could put a percentage on it, but eating a substantial amount of junk food each day can't be good for you either, and I see lots of posts from people saying they eat that way. (I'm pretty sure I shouldn't clip and post those.)

Just to help with your question on quoting from other thread:

That in and of itself is not necessarily a violation. We do have a guideline saying not to attack and stalk other posters, so where people run into trouble is they argue with someone in one discussion, then start bringing it up to pick a fight with them in another. It can be a problem if you cant talk without someone hassling you, and can be a problem in the new thread because others dont know the context and whole story when they get thrown in halfway through the arguement, so adds alot of confusion.

But if you think of a good example that applies to this discussion feel free to paraphrase it. Talking about advice you have seen given here makes since as the whole thread is about giving good advice.

Alatariel75 · March 2017

VintageFeline wrote: »

Back!

For full disclosure I am in the UK. I will link to each pizza I look at so you can check I have not doctored anything.

First up, Sainsburys own veggie thin crust:

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/sainsburys-thin---crispy-vegetable-pizza-320g

366 calories per half pizza

Ingredients

Pizza Base (Wheat Flour, Water, Rapeseed Oil, Yeast, Salt), Tomato Sauce (Water, Tomato Purée, Cornflour, Sugar, Sunflower Oil, Basil, Salt, White Wine Vinegar, Sundried Tomatoes, Garlic Puree, Garlic Powder, Yeast Extract, Black Pepper, Tomato Paste, Tomato Powder, Cheese Powder (Cows' Milk), Flavouring, Marjoram, Thyme, Oregano, Garlic, Rosemary, Acid: Citric Acid), Mozzarella Cheese (16%) (Cows' Milk), Courgettes (7%), Yellow Peppers (3%), Spinach (3%), Red Onions (3%), Pesto Oil (2.5%) (Rapeseed Oil, Palm Oil, Basil, Sunflower Oil, Garlic Purée, Salt, Black Pepper, Acidity Regulator: Citric Acid).

Next, Dr Oetker pepperoni thin crust, one of the more popular ones I think. Cheap.

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/dr-oetker-ristorante-pizza-pepperoni-salame-320g

465 calories per half pizza

Ingredients

Wheat Flour (with Calcium, Iron, Thiamin (B1), Niacin (B3)), Tomato Puree, Pepperoni-Salami (9%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Smoke, Spices, Dextrose, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary)), Mozzarella Cheese (7%), Edam Cheese (7%), Vegetable Oil (Rapeseed, Extra-Virgin Olive Oil), Salami (4%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Spices, Garlic Powder, Onion Powder, Glucose Syrup, Sucrose, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary), Flavouring, Smoke, Dextrose), Yeast, Sugar, Salt, Herbs and Spices, Water, Modified Potato Starch, Chilli Powder, Lemon Juice, Potato Starch, Garlic, Maltodextrin, Dextrose, Pepper Extract

And finally, a Goodfella's chicken. I guess this would be deemed one of the fancier frozen pizzas.

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/goodfellas-stonebaked-thin-roast-chicken-pizza-with-italian-style-dressing-365g

484 calories per half pizza

Wheat Flour, Water, Mozzarella (14%) (Milk), Chicken with added Water (13%) (Chicken, Water, Salt, Maize Starch), Tomatoes (9%), Vegetable Oil: Rapeseed, Herb Dressing (2%) (Vegetable Oils: Rapeseed, Palm; Garlic Puree, Parsley, Marjoram, Thyme, Sage, Black Pepper), Cheddar Cheese (1.5%) (Milk), Yeast, Salt, Sugar, Garlic Puree, Starch, Oregano, Basil, Black Pepper, Marjoram, Parsley, Sage, Thyme

Feel free to point out what amongst that is going to cause my untimely death.

This is why I can never work out why, if I logged bread, meat, veges and cheese seperately in my log, people wouldn't blink, but as soon as the bread is round and the rest of the stuff is piled on it and I log it as pizza, people lose their fricken minds. I will never understand why the go-to demonised food is pizza.

Full disclosure - I ran two pizza places over a 5 year period, one of them a chain store and the other a family restaurant style place and I've never seen anything go into the dough that I wouldn't have put in the dough while making it at home for my family. The other ingredients are as straight forward as can be.

lemurcat12 · March 2017

dfwesq wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused?

Maybe I've misunderstood about what the rules are, but I saw someone else post something to the effect that we're not allowed to go around the boards quoting from other threads. Am I allowed to do that?

I believe it would be fine to link to the thread you think contains confusing advice, as the topic of this thread is that, basically.

Fwiw, I'm not focused on "eat only junk food". A diet doesn't have to be 100% junk to be unhealthy.

But that's what the OP was talking about, as I illustrated by quoting it.

I'm not sure I could put a percentage on it, but eating a substantial amount of junk food each day can't be good for you either, and I see lots of posts from people saying they eat that way. (I'm pretty sure I shouldn't clip and post those.)

If you were able to eat what you needed to cover nutritional bases (I used to log on Chron and I think it's the best site for that), what difference would it make if you also ate a lot of so-called "junk" (which I am reading as not having much but calories). A lot of people (IMO) are confused in that they focus on not eating "bad" foods (which usually would be totally fine) and ignore other things -- like they never eat bread or pasta, but also rarely eat vegetables. IMO, far healthier to get adequate vegetables, protein, fiber, healthy fats, and also some junk food, than to eat a totally "clean" diet (however you define that) and not eat many veg.)

Yes, there are some things that probably should be limited anyway (sodium, at least for some people, IMO sat fat, I avoid transfat, etc.), but for most people that's not going to be an issue if you focus on hitting nutritional goals. I think you are reading people saying "I have chocolate every day" or "I have fast food 5 times a week" to mean they eat "a substantial amount of junk food daily" but that might not be so at all.

The bigger point, though, is that OP was talking about weight loss, NOT nutrition (although I always do bring up nutrition). You can lose weight and not care that much about nutrition, although I wouldn't recommend it. What's wrong or confusing about acknowledging that?

I get a bit the sense that you think that we shouldn't be honest with people because they might use the true information to make choices you think are bad.

When threads are about nutrition, there is a lot of good information about nutrition given (there is often good information about nutrition given in "how do I lose weight" threads too, but for more in depth discussions of what nutrition requires -- a rather debated topic -- you do need to go to threads focusing on that.

"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.

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