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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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French_Peasant wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
I get what you are saying, and I agree, it is a personal decision--everyone's body is going to respond differently, and people should be cautious about logging something that they might not be burning. If it's a half hour of light weeding or planting, it's not going to be a significant burn.
For me, post-kids-and-weight-gain, even before I started weighing/tracking calories on MFP, every summer I would lose a considerable amount of weight (going from a size 12 to a size 10; one summer a size 8) with my only activity being gardening. Of course, once that activity stopped in the winter I would go back to a size 12, because I did not adapt my eating habits. Thank God for MFP, where I had the tools I needed to maintain natural summer loss for the winter.
So, gardening represents a considerable portion of my calorie burn, both during my losing period, and recomp (now at size 6) over the past year+.
The people on my friends list know that, especially in the spring and early summer, I am posting out "Gardening, 8 hours, 2400 calories burned," especially on the weekends, but even on a lot of the weekdays I will be working from when I get home till it gets too dark--4 or 5 hours or so. It is frequent enough and long enough that it represents a considerable caloric output, but not consistent enough that I would care to set my "normal activity" to that level. But that work HAS to be fueled in order for me to be an effective peasant.
Granted, I have a fairly unique situation, with 7000 square feet under cultivation (across 3 gardens) and doing everything by hand and hand tools: digging, flipping compost, hauling around buckets and large cans of water and wet straw bales ("farmer carry")--if you think about it, even weeding and harvesting is a series of @ss to grass bodyweight squats. I definitely classify what I do as "for health and fitness": it's a free outdoor gym that additionally produces beautiful flowers, a pleasant landscape, a couple hundred pounds of valuable organic produce, and psychological therapy, all rolled into one.
I have "DB woodchoppers" come up every few weeks in my lifting program, and while I do them, I always feel like such a tool, because it is such a patently fake replacement for the actual functional work that people used to do back when just about everyone was thin. Give me a maul, a big stack of logs, and a beautiful fall afternoon any day. (Note: I do NOT feel the same way about trading in deadlifts for a nasty hot afternoon spent baling hay.
)
Of course, if I ever wanted to get absolutely shredded and clearly define my abs, I would have to make adjustments, but as a 44-year old mom, I'm pretty happy with where I'm at, other than the bottoms of my arms being a little too jiggly, but I don't think much can be done about that, alas.
Yep, same here. I was going to write a similar response since gardening is 100% of my exercise for part of the year and I definitely do it for my health and well being. But since I don't log anything I didn't bother. But gardening is serious work when the garden is big enough. Easily as much as many people put in at the gym.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
I do
No
Anything I do that is not sitting on my backside helps my fitness. Yes, even spading and tilling our extremely heavy clay soil.
I only log what is out of the norm. All other household/living activity gets added in to my steps so yes, I get extra calories.
It neither makes or breaks my weight loss because I pay attention to both calories in and calories out and make adjustments as needed. Working very well so far.
I think my point is being missed on purpose...
No one is 100% accurate in logging...we can't be, we can do what we can but in the long run it's all just a guesstimate and usually people are on the wrong side of it
No you don't need exercise to lose weight
and the question was "was it done to improve your health and/or fitness" and you don't till for that you till to have a garden, to mix the soil etc...it might help it a bit but it wasn't done for that sole purpose which is what exercise is...done for the sole purpose of increasing health and/or fitness.
anyway I won't be changing people's minds they have their own way which is fine, great even...
the difference here is I can say I see why people see it the other way...I don't agree but I can see why...
Why does the logging of activity calories burned have to be used solely for something that's being done to improve health or fitness?
If that's a rule you want to apply to your own logging, that's cool, but can't you see that it's really not cool to expect everyone else to apply that same rule to their own logging?
My Fitbit logs extra activity as calories out. It doesn't make the discrimination between purposeful exercise and NEAT. It sends and adjustment to MFP for calories out for anything I burned beyond my activity setting. I see no need for people logging activity manually to do anything differently. If something goes above and beyond their activity setting for calories out, they should account for it in some way. IF THEY CHOOSE.
It's fine if your experience didn't bring anything to bear on your weight, but others have said that they've had success accounting for incidental increases in NEAT.
How about you do you?
that is what exercise is...done to improve health and/or fitness...and IMO only exercise should be logged for additional calories to be eaten. That is my opinion. Why because I feel that logging those extra life activities that are not exercise leads people down a slippery slope of trying to find reasons to eat more without exercise.
It is a rule I apply to my own logging and when the question is asked in the forums if a one of life activity should be logged as exercise my answer is no...every time. With a response of typically unless it's purposeful exercise then leave it alone as logging inaccuracies will typically override any extra calories you have burned.
I have a fitbit I know how they work...but I don't eat all my calories back and have actually considered changing my activity level to lightly active to alleviate having to not eat to goal (extra calories added make it appear I am always about 500 under goal). As for others logging it and eating those calories and it working for them...I think it's great. And I think they should continue with what works for them...but there are others who have agreed with me too...
As for your last statement..."how about you do you" are you saying that you are going to stop answering questions based on your opinion in the forums? because that is basically what you just told me to do...
This particular topic fits quite well in this particular thread (unpopular opinions).
Just sayin' *shrugs*8 -
My unpopular health/fitness opinion is that I believe that any movement can count as exercise. Meaning I think house cleaning, gardening, washing the car, shoveling snow or what ever is done to produce movement is exercise. Just because it isn't done in a gym doesn't mean it doesn't count. Maybe this was already covered but oh well.
After reading a bunch of the posts here about processed food, I realized all food is processed. We cook, cut and season our food making it "processed". I guess my goal is to try and not eat as much store bought prepared foods that have questionable ingredients and/or no nutritional value. Now that doesn't mean I won't snag a danish every now and then if it fits in my allotment for the day. Paying attention to the labels on food is how I am trying to do my way of life. I guess I like the everything in moderation point of view the best. Cutting things out just because the latest fad or guru of the time said so, just bugs me.10 -
I can see both sides of the equation in this. But I see a distinction. If I am doing a little yard work for an hour or 2, I'm not going to log that. I see it as part of N.E.A.T. and it will all come out in the wash with any overestimating of burns and underestimating of calories over the week. If I am going out and splitting firewood for the afternoon, I might log it. In either event, I have a Fitbit, so if it is an "increase in HRM type activity", it'll get captured. And while the Fitbit is not 100% accurate, I know the windage on it well enough.
That being said, I don't do a high deficit and I may only slightly eat more no matter what I log or what Fitbit says because I think there is enough inaccuracy on all sides of the equation that I am going to be conservative. I eat around 2000 cals per day. I'm not close to the edge. I've got margin for error.
I try to always bear in mind that the 2 most common reasons why people struggle to lose when tracking calories is overestimating burns and underestimating food intake.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
I do
No
Anything I do that is not sitting on my backside helps my fitness. Yes, even spading and tilling our extremely heavy clay soil.
I only log what is out of the norm. All other household/living activity gets added in to my steps so yes, I get extra calories.
It neither makes or breaks my weight loss because I pay attention to both calories in and calories out and make adjustments as needed. Working very well so far.
I think my point is being missed on purpose...
No one is 100% accurate in logging...we can't be, we can do what we can but in the long run it's all just a guesstimate and usually people are on the wrong side of it
No you don't need exercise to lose weight
and the question was "was it done to improve your health and/or fitness" and you don't till for that you till to have a garden, to mix the soil etc...it might help it a bit but it wasn't done for that sole purpose which is what exercise is...done for the sole purpose of increasing health and/or fitness.
anyway I won't be changing people's minds they have their own way which is fine, great even...
the difference here is I can say I see why people see it the other way...I don't agree but I can see why...
Why does the logging of activity calories burned have to be used solely for something that's being done to improve health or fitness?
If that's a rule you want to apply to your own logging, that's cool, but can't you see that it's really not cool to expect everyone else to apply that same rule to their own logging?
My Fitbit logs extra activity as calories out. It doesn't make the discrimination between purposeful exercise and NEAT. It sends and adjustment to MFP for calories out for anything I burned beyond my activity setting. I see no need for people logging activity manually to do anything differently. If something goes above and beyond their activity setting for calories out, they should account for it in some way. IF THEY CHOOSE.
It's fine if your experience didn't bring anything to bear on your weight, but others have said that they've had success accounting for incidental increases in NEAT.
How about you do you?
that is what exercise is...done to improve health and/or fitness...and IMO only exercise should be logged for additional calories to be eaten. That is my opinion. Why because I feel that logging those extra life activities that are not exercise leads people down a slippery slope of trying to find reasons to eat more without exercise.
It is a rule I apply to my own logging and when the question is asked in the forums if a one of life activity should be logged as exercise my answer is no...every time. With a response of typically unless it's purposeful exercise then leave it alone as logging inaccuracies will typically override any extra calories you have burned.
I have a fitbit I know how they work...but I don't eat all my calories back and have actually considered changing my activity level to lightly active to alleviate having to not eat to goal (extra calories added make it appear I am always about 500 under goal). As for others logging it and eating those calories and it working for them...I think it's great. And I think they should continue with what works for them...but there are others who have agreed with me too...
As for your last statement..."how about you do you" are you saying that you are going to stop answering questions based on your opinion in the forums? because that is basically what you just told me to do...
This particular topic fits quite well in this particular thread (unpopular opinions).
Just sayin' *shrugs*
The "how about you do you" applied to the idea that logging activity had to be just purposeful exercise.
People use this site in different ways.
You raised a good example here, and I can contrast the point I'm trying to make by elaborating on something you said about your Fitbit and your activity setting.
Bear with me.
I'm very active. I get anywhere from 20-24K or more steps a day, and at a good chunk of that is purposeful exercise.
And yet, I keep all my settings here on MFP and Fitbit as sedentary.
Why? Because I go to bed early and don't like the drop you get in your Fitbit adjustment when that happens if you have a different activity setting.
That is how I choose to use activity logging, because it works with my lifestyle and preferences.
For you and your preferences, you've stated that you want to change to a more active activity level because that will work best for you.
I am trying to say that some people select "sedentary" and are fully aware they aren't really sedentary all the time and use MFP in different ways. Extra activity for them can be accounted for, not necessarily as a slippery slope (though I'm sure some people might use it that way), but because it's extra activity above and beyond the activity level they are accounting for in the NEAT level base calories MFP is giving them.
Even though the site calls that part of logging "exercise", it's still "calories out", and it doesn't matter whether it's purposeful exercise or NEAT. It's just free software that we can all make work for us as we best see fit for our own individual goals and preferences.14 -
I can see both sides of the equation in this. But I see a distinction. If I am doing a little yard work for an hour or 2, I'm not going to log that. I see it as part of N.E.A.T. and it will all come out in the wash with any overestimating of burns and underestimating of calories over the week. If I am going out and splitting firewood for the afternoon, I might log it. In either event, I have a Fitbit, so if it is an "increase in HRM type activity", it'll get captured. And while the Fitbit is not 100% accurate, I know the windage on it well enough.
That being said, I don't do a high deficit and I may only slightly eat more no matter what I log or what Fitbit says because I think there is enough inaccuracy on all sides of the equation that I am going to be conservative. I eat around 2000 cals per day. I'm not close to the edge. I've got margin for error.
I try to always bear in mind that the 2 most common reasons why people struggle to lose when tracking calories is overestimating burns and underestimating food intake.
I agree totally with this.
I think that there are exceptions to my rule as well...someone mentioned a 36 mile bike ride...yah I would log it.
But like you I expect most of those one offs are going to net with CI as accuracy can be questionable.
I have my fitbit too and try to leave wiggle room...I am considering changing my activity level to light active to eliminate the "left over calories" I have every day as I am active with non exercise stuff...on purpose.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
I do
No
Anything I do that is not sitting on my backside helps my fitness. Yes, even spading and tilling our extremely heavy clay soil.
I only log what is out of the norm. All other household/living activity gets added in to my steps so yes, I get extra calories.
It neither makes or breaks my weight loss because I pay attention to both calories in and calories out and make adjustments as needed. Working very well so far.
I think my point is being missed on purpose...
No one is 100% accurate in logging...we can't be, we can do what we can but in the long run it's all just a guesstimate and usually people are on the wrong side of it
No you don't need exercise to lose weight
and the question was "was it done to improve your health and/or fitness" and you don't till for that you till to have a garden, to mix the soil etc...it might help it a bit but it wasn't done for that sole purpose which is what exercise is...done for the sole purpose of increasing health and/or fitness.
anyway I won't be changing people's minds they have their own way which is fine, great even...
the difference here is I can say I see why people see it the other way...I don't agree but I can see why...
Why does the logging of activity calories burned have to be used solely for something that's being done to improve health or fitness?
If that's a rule you want to apply to your own logging, that's cool, but can't you see that it's really not cool to expect everyone else to apply that same rule to their own logging?
My Fitbit logs extra activity as calories out. It doesn't make the discrimination between purposeful exercise and NEAT. It sends and adjustment to MFP for calories out for anything I burned beyond my activity setting. I see no need for people logging activity manually to do anything differently. If something goes above and beyond their activity setting for calories out, they should account for it in some way. IF THEY CHOOSE.
It's fine if your experience didn't bring anything to bear on your weight, but others have said that they've had success accounting for incidental increases in NEAT.
How about you do you?
that is what exercise is...done to improve health and/or fitness...and IMO only exercise should be logged for additional calories to be eaten. That is my opinion. Why because I feel that logging those extra life activities that are not exercise leads people down a slippery slope of trying to find reasons to eat more without exercise.
It is a rule I apply to my own logging and when the question is asked in the forums if a one of life activity should be logged as exercise my answer is no...every time. With a response of typically unless it's purposeful exercise then leave it alone as logging inaccuracies will typically override any extra calories you have burned.
I have a fitbit I know how they work...but I don't eat all my calories back and have actually considered changing my activity level to lightly active to alleviate having to not eat to goal (extra calories added make it appear I am always about 500 under goal). As for others logging it and eating those calories and it working for them...I think it's great. And I think they should continue with what works for them...but there are others who have agreed with me too...
As for your last statement..."how about you do you" are you saying that you are going to stop answering questions based on your opinion in the forums? because that is basically what you just told me to do...
This particular topic fits quite well in this particular thread (unpopular opinions).
Just sayin' *shrugs*
The "how about you do you" applied to the idea that logging activity had to be just purposeful exercise.
People use this site in different ways.
You raised a good example here, and I can contrast the point I'm trying to make by elaborating on something you said about your Fitbit and your activity setting.
Bear with me.
I'm very active. I get anywhere from 20-24K or more steps a day, and at a good chunk of that is purposeful exercise.
And yet, I keep all my settings here on MFP and Fitbit as sedentary.
Why? Because I go to bed early and don't like the drop you get in your Fitbit adjustment when that happens if you have a different activity setting.
That is how I choose to use activity logging, because it works with my lifestyle and preferences.
For you and your preferences, you've stated that you want to change to a more active activity level because that will work best for you.
I am trying to say that some people select "sedentary" and are fully aware they aren't really sedentary all the time and use MFP in different ways. Extra activity for them can be accounted for, not necessarily as a slippery slope (though I'm sure some people might use it that way), but because it's extra activity above and beyond the activity level they are accounting for in the NEAT level base calories MFP is giving them.
Even though the site calls that part of logging "exercise", it's still "calories out", and it doesn't matter whether it's purposeful exercise or NEAT. It's just free software that we can all make work for us as we best see fit for our own individual goals and preferences.
I agree with using the site as you see fit.
And like you I haven't changed my level yet as I go to bed early as well...but I still somehow manage to get on average 800 extra calories to eat....I usually eat half of it...that is at sedentary.
and I think how people choose to do it is totally up to them.
Don't get me wrong I am not saying my way is the only way...I have said many times...people can do it how they want but when I see that question come up I will give my response as No don't log it...do people have to listen...nope...and it seems it is now unpopular.
A few years ago I was in the majority...it's funny how these forums change over time depending on who posts.0 -
I think the "don't log it" perspective is an important and valuable perspective for people to hear and consider. How many of us have people on our feeds who regularly log 20 minutes of light cleaning, and then complain that they don't lose weight?
In thinking about this, I have my maintenance calories set at 1380 when they should be somewhat higher; I tend to be sloppy on a lot of my logging and this buffer accommodates for the sloppiness, as well as the gardening days where I am, say, spending too much time working on a knot or repairing some netting or staking tomatoes instead of digging the potatoes or some such. I guess we all have our work-arounds.3 -
French_Peasant wrote: »I think the "don't log it" perspective is an important and valuable perspective for people to hear and consider. How many of us have people on our feeds who regularly log 20 minutes of light cleaning, and then complain that they don't lose weight?
In thinking about this, I have my maintenance calories set at 1380 when they should be somewhat higher; I tend to be sloppy on a lot of my logging and this buffer accommodates for the sloppiness, as well as the gardening days where I am, say, spending too much time working on a knot or repairing some netting or staking tomatoes instead of digging the potatoes or some such. I guess we all have our work-arounds.
This is exactly why I think most people should not. I had one person in my feed that would log light cleaning, shopping and walking the dog for 10 minutes. After 6 years they had lost 20 lbs and complained constantly about how hard it was to lose. They had to go.
Something vigorous and or sustained, I can see it. But a little weeding the front flower bed? Not so much.2 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
As someone who does log as accurately as she can manage and who is also a data geek, I want data as accurate as I can reasonably make it, during weight loss.
From this data, when I've accumulated enough of it, I can more accurately estimate my NEAT/TDEE, predict my fat loss for the week independent of water weight fluctuations, and assess the impact of an over-calorie-goal indulgence I'm considering (in terms of days delay to ultimate goal, number of days at standard deficit needed to cancel out the extra, or indulgence pounds gained).
Since part of the fun part of weight loss for me was treating it - metaphorically - as a science fair project, I want that extra (minor, but easy) accuracy. So I carefully, conservatively logged anything significant that wasn't part of my activity level.
Lost just fine, doing it, too - and eating back the most of it, besides.
Edited: typo8 -
French_Peasant wrote: »I think the "don't log it" perspective is an important and valuable perspective for people to hear and consider. How many of us have people on our feeds who regularly log 20 minutes of light cleaning, and then complain that they don't lose weight?
In thinking about this, I have my maintenance calories set at 1380 when they should be somewhat higher; I tend to be sloppy on a lot of my logging and this buffer accommodates for the sloppiness, as well as the gardening days where I am, say, spending too much time working on a knot or repairing some netting or staking tomatoes instead of digging the potatoes or some such. I guess we all have our work-arounds.
This is exactly why I think most people should not. I had one person in my feed that would log light cleaning, shopping and walking the dog for 10 minutes. After 6 years they had lost 20 lbs and complained constantly about how hard it was to lose. They had to go.
Something vigorous and or sustained, I can see it. But a little weeding the front flower bed? Not so much.
There may or may not be an entry for "walking--pushing shopping cart" in the database. I only know this because...um... I asked for a friend way back in the day.
8 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
As someone who does log as accurately as she can manage and who is also a data geek, I want data as accurate as I can reasonably make it, during weight loss.
From this data, when I've accumulated enough of it, I can more accurately estimate my NEAT/TDEE, predict my fat loss for the week independent of water weight fluctuations, and assess the impact of an over-calorie-goal indulgence I'm considering (in terms of days delay to ultimate goal, number of days at standard deficit needed to cancel out the extra, or indulgence pounds gained).
Since part of the fun part of weight loss for me was treating it - metaphorically - as a science fair project, I want that extra (minor, but easy) accuracy. So I carefully, conservatively logged anything significant that wasn't part of my activity level.
Lost just fine, doing it, too - and eating back the most of it, besides.
Edited: typo
I think if you have the time and patience to track everything and the calories aren't already accounted for in your activity level settings, then I think it is a good method for you.
3 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »I think the "don't log it" perspective is an important and valuable perspective for people to hear and consider. How many of us have people on our feeds who regularly log 20 minutes of light cleaning, and then complain that they don't lose weight?
In thinking about this, I have my maintenance calories set at 1380 when they should be somewhat higher; I tend to be sloppy on a lot of my logging and this buffer accommodates for the sloppiness, as well as the gardening days where I am, say, spending too much time working on a knot or repairing some netting or staking tomatoes instead of digging the potatoes or some such. I guess we all have our work-arounds.
This is exactly why I think most people should not. I had one person in my feed that would log light cleaning, shopping and walking the dog for 10 minutes. After 6 years they had lost 20 lbs and complained constantly about how hard it was to lose. They had to go.
Something vigorous and or sustained, I can see it. But a little weeding the front flower bed? Not so much.
There may or may not be an entry for "walking--pushing shopping cart" in the database. I only know this because...um... I asked for a friend way back in the day. 1 -
I can see both sides of the equation in this. But I see a distinction. If I am doing a little yard work for an hour or 2, I'm not going to log that. I see it as part of N.E.A.T. and it will all come out in the wash with any overestimating of burns and underestimating of calories over the week. If I am going out and splitting firewood for the afternoon, I might log it. In either event, I have a Fitbit, so if it is an "increase in HRM type activity", it'll get captured. And while the Fitbit is not 100% accurate, I know the windage on it well enough.
That being said, I don't do a high deficit and I may only slightly eat more no matter what I log or what Fitbit says because I think there is enough inaccuracy on all sides of the equation that I am going to be conservative. I eat around 2000 cals per day. I'm not close to the edge. I've got margin for error.
I try to always bear in mind that the 2 most common reasons why people struggle to lose when tracking calories is overestimating burns and underestimating food intake.
Close behind in struggling: The people who go for an aggressively low calorie goal, add a heap of exercise they don't eat back (because MFP overestimates, or some such), on top of an active daily life . . . then regularly fall for deficit-destroying binges, engage in self-recrimination ("I'm a failure!") and give up.
Yes, the occasional uneaten extra exercise is not a certain weight loss breaker, but there are slippery slopes and pitfalls on both sides of the exercise-counting path.
The example I drew is extreme . . . but so is the "logs daily dishwashing and fails to lose" example. At the narrow margins, both happen.
12 -
French_Peasant wrote: »I think the "don't log it" perspective is an important and valuable perspective for people to hear and consider. How many of us have people on our feeds who regularly log 20 minutes of light cleaning, and then complain that they don't lose weight?
In thinking about this, I have my maintenance calories set at 1380 when they should be somewhat higher; I tend to be sloppy on a lot of my logging and this buffer accommodates for the sloppiness, as well as the gardening days where I am, say, spending too much time working on a knot or repairing some netting or staking tomatoes instead of digging the potatoes or some such. I guess we all have our work-arounds.
This basically summarizes how I feel about this. Whether an individual chooses to log these sort of "day to day activities" as exercise or not really should be determined by how they intend to use the data, and whether or not they are seeing the results they desire overall. I also have a FitBit, and so I don't need to log the activities like shopping, cooking, cleaning, etc - but my FitBit is capturing them as part of my overall activity level and I eat back my calories, so how would it be different if I did log it and eat them back? I reached my weight loss goal and am maintaining for a few years now, so it has worked for me. But I've seen plenty of people logging things that I would not, and these are often people that complain about not getting results.
I think the issue comes in when (and I may have been guilty of this in the beginning too) people think that they need to get "credit" for any activity they do JUST so that they can eat the extra calories. When people start thinking "gosh, there's an exercise entry for stretching that would give me an extra 30 calories which means that I can have a little bigger slice of cake" (again, that may have been me in the very beginning but I'm not naming names) that's when the problems come in. Those kinds of decisions in which the tail wags the dog, often, if not changed over time, can derail progress toward goal. Fortunately I think most people who stick around realize this and find a method that works for them overall. Maybe they get a FitBit like me, or maybe they stop logging it and just use that sort of activity as a buffer for inaccurate logging (I think this is what Steff was saying). But as I think most of us agree here, there isn't a one sized fits all approach to using MFP.
6 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
As someone who does log as accurately as she can manage and who is also a data geek, I want data as accurate as I can reasonably make it, during weight loss.
From this data, when I've accumulated enough of it, I can more accurately estimate my NEAT/TDEE, predict my fat loss for the week independent of water weight fluctuations, and assess the impact of an over-calorie-goal indulgence I'm considering (in terms of days delay to ultimate goal, number of days at standard deficit needed to cancel out the extra, or indulgence pounds gained).
Since part of the fun part of weight loss for me was treating it - metaphorically - as a science fair project, I want that extra (minor, but easy) accuracy. So I carefully, conservatively logged anything significant that wasn't part of my activity level.
Lost just fine, doing it, too - and eating back the most of it, besides.
Edited: typo
I went through a similar phase early on. Still remembering a day where I burned over 1500 calories and this was reported in my feed something to the effect "Burned 1500 calories Stretching".
Over time I realized that I'm not at the point yet where this data will pay off. If I get below 10% body fat this level of detail may pay off, but that's on the 2018 goals.1 -
I can see both sides of the equation in this. But I see a distinction. If I am doing a little yard work for an hour or 2, I'm not going to log that. I see it as part of N.E.A.T. and it will all come out in the wash with any overestimating of burns and underestimating of calories over the week. If I am going out and splitting firewood for the afternoon, I might log it. In either event, I have a Fitbit, so if it is an "increase in HRM type activity", it'll get captured. And while the Fitbit is not 100% accurate, I know the windage on it well enough.
That being said, I don't do a high deficit and I may only slightly eat more no matter what I log or what Fitbit says because I think there is enough inaccuracy on all sides of the equation that I am going to be conservative. I eat around 2000 cals per day. I'm not close to the edge. I've got margin for error.
I try to always bear in mind that the 2 most common reasons why people struggle to lose when tracking calories is overestimating burns and underestimating food intake.
Close behind in struggling: The people who go for an aggressively low calorie goal, add a heap of exercise they don't eat back (because MFP overestimates, or some such), on top of an active daily life . . . then regularly fall for deficit-destroying binges, engage in self-recrimination ("I'm a failure!") and give up.
Yes, the occasional uneaten extra exercise is not a certain weight loss breaker, but there are slippery slopes and pitfalls on both sides of the exercise-counting path.
The example I drew is extreme . . . but so is the "logs daily dishwashing and fails to lose" example. At the narrow margins, both happen.
Yes, I agree! That would make the top 5 list of reasons people fail. Well said!0 -
So with all this talk about logging exercise and food accurately I have a question. (yes I realize that that makes this off topic but the topic is what triggers the question)
I was using Fat Secret for a few years, and I think I still prefer it... but MFP actually shares information with Nokia Health Mate, Google Fit, and some other apps I use...
Observations:
FS allows you to enter everything in grams or milliliters but MFP has some "1 piece" or imperial only, which is awkward when I use a scale or measuring cup for almost everything.
FS has calorie counts for almost any activity you can imagine, even sex. I only log actual exercise, and it does not change my caloric budget for the day. (I prefer this because it's easier to stick with roughly the same macros regardless of whether I lift or not on any particular day)
MFP lists tons of exercises, and allows me to even enter sets, reps, and weight... but has no calorie value for any of them?
MFP DOES pull the most useless value from Google Fit... steps. It gives this a calorie value and wants to add to my budget for the day but an hour and a half of pounding the heaviest weights I can manage with good form doesn't count??
Ultimately I am now logging in 2 apps and entering my training in Google Fit... this completely defeats the purpose of automation!
The question (finally)...
Is there a way to enter my lifting in MFP that would make sense?
I would be perfectly happy with a generic "intense weight training" and the length of the session giving me a rough calorie estimate. That's what FS, Google Fit, and LG Health all do. (but MFP only pulls "steps")
Again, I don't want it to change my calorie budget, but I would like to have the information available to see if I'm running a deficit, surplus, or maintenance.1 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
I do
No
Anything I do that is not sitting on my backside helps my fitness. Yes, even spading and tilling our extremely heavy clay soil.
I only log what is out of the norm. All other household/living activity gets added in to my steps so yes, I get extra calories.
It neither makes or breaks my weight loss because I pay attention to both calories in and calories out and make adjustments as needed. Working very well so far.
I think my point is being missed on purpose...
No one is 100% accurate in logging...we can't be, we can do what we can but in the long run it's all just a guesstimate and usually people are on the wrong side of it
No you don't need exercise to lose weight
and the question was "was it done to improve your health and/or fitness" and you don't till for that you till to have a garden, to mix the soil etc...it might help it a bit but it wasn't done for that sole purpose which is what exercise is...done for the sole purpose of increasing health and/or fitness.
anyway I won't be changing people's minds they have their own way which is fine, great even...
the difference here is I can say I see why people see it the other way...I don't agree but I can see why...
So to fix this logging inaccuracy you advocate deliberately making your logging even less accurate by randomly excluding calorie burning activities because they may have been done for other reasons than fitness. Or even fitness plus other reasons?
What a peculiar way to calorie count or estimate.
Excluding data doesn't improve accuracy - that's basic mathematics.
17 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »So with all this talk about logging exercise and food accurately I have a question. (yes I realize that that makes this off topic but the topic is what triggers the question)
I was using Fat Secret for a few years, and I think I still prefer it... but MFP actually shares information with Nokia Health Mate, Google Fit, and some other apps I use...
Observations:
FS allows you to enter everything in grams or milliliters but MFP has some "1 piece" or imperial only, which is awkward when I use a scale or measuring cup for almost everything.
FS has calorie counts for almost any activity you can imagine, even sex. I only log actual exercise, and it does not change my caloric budget for the day. (I prefer this because it's easier to stick with roughly the same macros regardless of whether I lift or not on any particular day)
MFP lists tons of exercises, and allows me to even enter sets, reps, and weight... but has no calorie value for any of them?
MFP DOES pull the most useless value from Google Fit... steps. It gives this a calorie value and wants to add to my budget for the day but an hour and a half of pounding the heaviest weights I can manage with good form doesn't count??
Ultimately I am now logging in 2 apps and entering my training in Google Fit... this completely defeats the purpose of automation!
The question (finally)...
Is there a way to enter my lifting in MFP that would make sense?
I would be perfectly happy with a generic "intense weight training" and the length of the session giving me a rough calorie estimate. That's what FS, Google Fit, and LG Health all do. (but MFP only pulls "steps")
Again, I don't want it to change my calorie budget, but I would like to have the information available to see if I'm running a deficit, surplus, or maintenance.
"Strength training (weight lifting, weight training)" is an entry in the MFP "cardio" exercise database, and has a (low) calorie burn estimate attached.2 -
@jamesakrobinson look for your lifting calorie burn under cardio, you are at the moment just keeping a record.
Some find it inaccurate, I find it spot on.
Cheers, h.
Oops, you have faster fingers than me Ann.
2 -
So to fix this logging inaccuracy you advocate deliberately making your logging even less accurate by randomly excluding calorie burning activities because they may have been done for other reasons than fitness. Or even fitness plus other reasons?
What a peculiar way to calorie count or estimate.
Excluding data doesn't improve accuracy - that's basic mathematics.
I don't know. If it works for her, it works. We all know we are not 100% accurate and need to adjust based on the actual weight gain/loss, so if she is losing or maintaining or gaining according to plan, then it is fine.
I won't do it that way and would never recommend it, but to each their own.
2 -
@mmapagsFrench_Peasant wrote: »I think the "don't log it" perspective is an important and valuable perspective for people to hear and consider. How many of us have people on our feeds who regularly log 20 minutes of light cleaning, and then complain that they don't lose weight?
In thinking about this, I have my maintenance calories set at 1380 when they should be somewhat higher; I tend to be sloppy on a lot of my logging and this buffer accommodates for the sloppiness, as well as the gardening days where I am, say, spending too much time working on a knot or repairing some netting or staking tomatoes instead of digging the potatoes or some such. I guess we all have our work-arounds.
This is exactly why I think most people should not. I had one person in my feed that would log light cleaning, shopping and walking the dog for 10 minutes. After 6 years they had lost 20 lbs and complained constantly about how hard it was to lose. They had to go.
Something vigorous and or sustained, I can see it. But a little weeding the front flower bed? Not so much.
My view is that it's a matter of degree and significance to an individual.
My 15 minute walk or 5 minute cycle to my local station is a regular and normal part of my life. When I choose to do a 4 mile round trip to the next station I figure that just compensates for days I work from home.
But when the trains are out of service and I cycle a 36 round trip to work because if I don't turn up for work I don't get paid that's significant. It's not for fitness but my body doesn't know that.
Same I apply to my gardening - regular maintenance is part of life and not logged but if I spend hours cutting down a tree and logging/shredding it then that's significant.
For me I work on roughly 10% of my base calories as being significant. Which is a fair amount for me on a high calorie allowance but not a lot of calories for the infamous 1200 cals a day crew.
It might even motivate people to be more active which is only a good thing.
3 -
middlehaitch wrote: »@jamesakrobinson look for your lifting calorie burn under cardio, you are at the moment just keeping a record.
Some find it inaccurate, I find it spot on.
Cheers, h.
Oops, you have faster fingers than me Ann.
Thanks!0 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »So with all this talk about logging exercise and food accurately I have a question. (yes I realize that that makes this off topic but the topic is what triggers the question)
I was using Fat Secret for a few years, and I think I still prefer it... but MFP actually shares information with Nokia Health Mate, Google Fit, and some other apps I use...
Observations:
FS allows you to enter everything in grams or milliliters but MFP has some "1 piece" or imperial only, which is awkward when I use a scale or measuring cup for almost everything.
FS has calorie counts for almost any activity you can imagine, even sex. I only log actual exercise, and it does not change my caloric budget for the day. (I prefer this because it's easier to stick with roughly the same macros regardless of whether I lift or not on any particular day)
MFP lists tons of exercises, and allows me to even enter sets, reps, and weight... but has no calorie value for any of them?
MFP DOES pull the most useless value from Google Fit... steps. It gives this a calorie value and wants to add to my budget for the day but an hour and a half of pounding the heaviest weights I can manage with good form doesn't count??
Ultimately I am now logging in 2 apps and entering my training in Google Fit... this completely defeats the purpose of automation!
The question (finally)...
Is there a way to enter my lifting in MFP that would make sense?
I would be perfectly happy with a generic "intense weight training" and the length of the session giving me a rough calorie estimate. That's what FS, Google Fit, and LG Health all do. (but MFP only pulls "steps")
Again, I don't want it to change my calorie budget, but I would like to have the information available to see if I'm running a deficit, surplus, or maintenance.
"Strength training (weight lifting, weight training)" is an entry in the MFP "cardio" exercise database, and has a (low) calorie burn estimate attached.
Thanks!1 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »So with all this talk about logging exercise and food accurately I have a question. (yes I realize that that makes this off topic but the topic is what triggers the question)
I was using Fat Secret for a few years, and I think I still prefer it... but MFP actually shares information with Nokia Health Mate, Google Fit, and some other apps I use...
Observations:
FS allows you to enter everything in grams or milliliters but MFP has some "1 piece" or imperial only, which is awkward when I use a scale or measuring cup for almost everything.
You can do everything in grams if you find the correct entries. When I'm logging, that's generally what I do.FS has calorie counts for almost any activity you can imagine, even sex. I only log actual exercise, and it does not change my caloric budget for the day. (I prefer this because it's easier to stick with roughly the same macros regardless of whether I lift or not on any particular day)
MFP lists tons of exercises, and allows me to even enter sets, reps, and weight... but has no calorie value for any of them?
MFP allows you to list strength exercises specifically in that section, without a caloric value, or to list it in the cardio section as "general weight training" or things like that. You can change the calories to whatever you think is appropriate and create your own entries too.
If you want it for the data, I'd do both, I guess. (I use the TDEE method where I don't log back specific exercises for calories but like to share them sometimes or have a record, so when I'm logging them I change the calorie count to 1 anyway.)0 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »So with all this talk about logging exercise and food accurately I have a question. (yes I realize that that makes this off topic but the topic is what triggers the question)
I was using Fat Secret for a few years, and I think I still prefer it... but MFP actually shares information with Nokia Health Mate, Google Fit, and some other apps I use...
Observations:
FS allows you to enter everything in grams or milliliters but MFP has some "1 piece" or imperial only, which is awkward when I use a scale or measuring cup for almost everything.
FS has calorie counts for almost any activity you can imagine, even sex. I only log actual exercise, and it does not change my caloric budget for the day. (I prefer this because it's easier to stick with roughly the same macros regardless of whether I lift or not on any particular day)
MFP lists tons of exercises, and allows me to even enter sets, reps, and weight... but has no calorie value for any of them?
MFP DOES pull the most useless value from Google Fit... steps. It gives this a calorie value and wants to add to my budget for the day but an hour and a half of pounding the heaviest weights I can manage with good form doesn't count??
Ultimately I am now logging in 2 apps and entering my training in Google Fit... this completely defeats the purpose of automation!
The question (finally)...
Is there a way to enter my lifting in MFP that would make sense?
I would be perfectly happy with a generic "intense weight training" and the length of the session giving me a rough calorie estimate. That's what FS, Google Fit, and LG Health all do. (but MFP only pulls "steps")
Again, I don't want it to change my calorie budget, but I would like to have the information available to see if I'm running a deficit, surplus, or maintenance.
"Strength training (weight lifting, weight training)" is an entry in the MFP "cardio" exercise database, and has a (low) calorie burn estimate attached.
I track my strength training calories with my HRM and it generally gives me a calorie burn of 3-4 calories per minute, which is ballpark what the tables estimate. My unpopular opinion is that HRMs provide reasonable calorie burn estimates, even for non-steady state exercises.6 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »So with all this talk about logging exercise and food accurately I have a question. (yes I realize that that makes this off topic but the topic is what triggers the question)
I was using Fat Secret for a few years, and I think I still prefer it... but MFP actually shares information with Nokia Health Mate, Google Fit, and some other apps I use...
Observations:
FS allows you to enter everything in grams or milliliters but MFP has some "1 piece" or imperial only, which is awkward when I use a scale or measuring cup for almost everything.
FS has calorie counts for almost any activity you can imagine, even sex. I only log actual exercise, and it does not change my caloric budget for the day. (I prefer this because it's easier to stick with roughly the same macros regardless of whether I lift or not on any particular day)
MFP lists tons of exercises, and allows me to even enter sets, reps, and weight... but has no calorie value for any of them?
MFP DOES pull the most useless value from Google Fit... steps. It gives this a calorie value and wants to add to my budget for the day but an hour and a half of pounding the heaviest weights I can manage with good form doesn't count??
Ultimately I am now logging in 2 apps and entering my training in Google Fit... this completely defeats the purpose of automation!
The question (finally)...
Is there a way to enter my lifting in MFP that would make sense?
I would be perfectly happy with a generic "intense weight training" and the length of the session giving me a rough calorie estimate. That's what FS, Google Fit, and LG Health all do. (but MFP only pulls "steps")
Again, I don't want it to change my calorie budget, but I would like to have the information available to see if I'm running a deficit, surplus, or maintenance.
In addition to what @AnnPT77 said, MFP also has database entries that you can log in grams and ml. You may have to search for them, but get into the habit of entering a food in the following patter, "chicken, breast, cooked, usda" into the database when you're searching. It takes a little time to build your recent foods, but once you do logging in accurate measurements is a cinch.
You seem to be new to the MFP site. I'd advise spending some time going through the stickies and learning the ins and outs of the app; you'd probably get a lot more functionality out of it.3 -
@mmapagsFrench_Peasant wrote: »I think the "don't log it" perspective is an important and valuable perspective for people to hear and consider. How many of us have people on our feeds who regularly log 20 minutes of light cleaning, and then complain that they don't lose weight?
In thinking about this, I have my maintenance calories set at 1380 when they should be somewhat higher; I tend to be sloppy on a lot of my logging and this buffer accommodates for the sloppiness, as well as the gardening days where I am, say, spending too much time working on a knot or repairing some netting or staking tomatoes instead of digging the potatoes or some such. I guess we all have our work-arounds.
This is exactly why I think most people should not. I had one person in my feed that would log light cleaning, shopping and walking the dog for 10 minutes. After 6 years they had lost 20 lbs and complained constantly about how hard it was to lose. They had to go.
Something vigorous and or sustained, I can see it. But a little weeding the front flower bed? Not so much.
My view is that it's a matter of degree and significance to an individual.
My 15 minute walk or 5 minute cycle to my local station is a regular and normal part of my life. When I choose to do a 4 mile round trip to the next station I figure that just compensates for days I work from home.
But when the trains are out of service and I cycle a 36 round trip to work because if I don't turn up for work I don't get paid that's significant. It's not for fitness but my body doesn't know that.
Same I apply to my gardening - regular maintenance is part of life and not logged but if I spend hours cutting down a tree and logging/shredding it then that's significant.
For me I work on roughly 10% of my base casame lories as being significant. Which is a fair amount for me on a high calorie allowance but not a lot of calories for the infamous 1200 cals a day crew.
It might even motivate people to be more active which is only a good thing.
Yup, we're on the same page.1 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »So with all this talk about logging exercise and food accurately I have a question. (yes I realize that that makes this off topic but the topic is what triggers the question)
I was using Fat Secret for a few years, and I think I still prefer it... but MFP actually shares information with Nokia Health Mate, Google Fit, and some other apps I use...
Observations:
FS allows you to enter everything in grams or milliliters but MFP has some "1 piece" or imperial only, which is awkward when I use a scale or measuring cup for almost everything.
FS has calorie counts for almost any activity you can imagine, even sex. I only log actual exercise, and it does not change my caloric budget for the day. (I prefer this because it's easier to stick with roughly the same macros regardless of whether I lift or not on any particular day)
MFP lists tons of exercises, and allows me to even enter sets, reps, and weight... but has no calorie value for any of them?
MFP DOES pull the most useless value from Google Fit... steps. It gives this a calorie value and wants to add to my budget for the day but an hour and a half of pounding the heaviest weights I can manage with good form doesn't count??
Ultimately I am now logging in 2 apps and entering my training in Google Fit... this completely defeats the purpose of automation!
The question (finally)...
Is there a way to enter my lifting in MFP that would make sense?
I would be perfectly happy with a generic "intense weight training" and the length of the session giving me a rough calorie estimate. That's what FS, Google Fit, and LG Health all do. (but MFP only pulls "steps")
Again, I don't want it to change my calorie budget, but I would like to have the information available to see if I'm running a deficit, surplus, or maintenance.
"Strength training (weight lifting, weight training)" is an entry in the MFP "cardio" exercise database, and has a (low) calorie burn estimate attached.
I track my strength training calories with my HRM and it generally gives me a calorie burn of 3-4 calories per minute, which is ballpark what the tables estimate. My unpopular opinion is that HRMs provide reasonable calorie burn estimates, even for non-steady state exercises.
That's the gross calorie burn, which includes your BMR. Mine does the same.
I've logged strength training using MFP's data base, and I really have no problem trusting my Fitbit in exercise mode for strength training. I get a reasonably small burn and adjustment.
I lifted this afternoon and just ran some numbers, figuring out the net burn I'd get from Fitbit vs. what I'd get by logging on MFP. There's a whopping 6 calorie difference.3
This discussion has been closed.
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