Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
-
KiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
I believe the point is that, while you may not be suffering any ill effects from being overweight now, it's an increase of risk factor down the track. Just like a smoker can be perfectly healthy, it doesn't change that smoking puts them far more at risk of health issues in the future.14 -
KiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.11 -
KiskaVedma wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
But it sure helps, i.e. BMI in normal range or close to it.
BMI has been proven time and time again to be BS.
No, it's a pretty decent guideline. Sure there are a few people that actually lift weights/do heavy manual labor that can be overweight and healthy. You get to the obese range on BMI , for the most part, if you asked an impartial observer if you were fat, the answer would be yes. Being over fat is not healthy.4 -
KiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
You look to be in your early 20's. If you stay fat, most likely the issues with blood pressure, cholesterol and other not fun stuff will develop unless you're slightly less rare than a unicorn.6 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »
It is just a competition, not a sport, unless defense is permitted, i.e, coworkers can interfere with participants eating cake, like smashing it in their face, pulling the fire alarm while they are eating, kicking the chair out from underneath them, etc.
7 -
This content has been removed.
-
Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.
you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"
Every question in life doesn't have a definitive authority that provides the correct answer. There is value in reasoning through concepts and creating our own answers when faced with ambiguity. Beyond this discussion, it doesn't matter if an activity is a sport, and I don't think that anyone is going to use that as criteria for participating in an activity (at least I would hope)4 -
KiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
I used to think I was that special snowflake. Up until I was diagnosed with NAFLD, borderline diabetic and off the chart blood lipid readings. One year before getting smashed in the head with those diagnosis, all of my readings came back picture perfect. From nearly one month to the next, I couldn't walk up one flight of stairs anymore because my heart was starting to struggle with all the burdens I was asking it to carry and there was no blending it out anymore with 'I maybe fat, but I'm healthy'.
FYI, I was 33 at the time.14 -
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
5 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
How about we change it from overweight to overfat. You have admitted you are one of those outliers who hangs out outside of "healthy BMI". It's a fine measure for most, even more fine for women.
There's no two ways about it, if you dislike BMI or not, if you are overfat you are at an increased health risk. When I was at my largest I really didn't hate myself or how I looked though sure I wasn't thrilled that I had tipped upwards of what my weight was normally by a fair bit as a side effect of some health issues. I didn't care about not stuffing my face. But my doctor gave me a kind but blunt warning that I was risking my health if I stayed where I was. So that was that. From that day I have been working on my physical health and am almost, almost! a healthy BMI.
There's a good chance I'm an outlier too but as a female I will still be able to reasonably easily be within a healthy BMI. I have 10lbs to go and am currently a 28" waist (well within healthy range) and about a UK 10/12 (US 6/8), about 25/26% BF which is also in the acceptable range. I could stop here sure but there's plenty fat still on me to lose into a healthy BMI.
So it's totally fine to be happy where you are even if you "weigh a lot" but let's not fool ourselves that the long term outcomes are statistically great. Even less so if you are also not even a little bit fit.6 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
see above...what VintageFeline said..
but I will add this as well...
physical health is one thing...and being overfat as above is not healthy...being obese as an average individual usually has emotional health/mental health issues as well...
so again..blood numbers might be great but BMI is a good measure and HAES is not valid.6 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
I believe the point is that, while you may not be suffering any ill effects from being overweight now, it's an increase of risk factor down the track. Just like a smoker can be perfectly healthy, it doesn't change that smoking puts them far more at risk of health issues in the future.
Yes, this. I did not have any ill effects in my medical tests when I was obese. Doesn't mean it wasn't a risk factor, and the longer you are obese and the older you get, the more it's an issue.
To the extent it interferes with general fitness -- walking as much as you otherwise would, doing active things that increase your heart rate, so on, that is also a problem. That thin people can also be sedentary doesn't mean that fatness doesn't make activity harder. That is something I experienced -- I walked a lot even when fat (I live in a big city) and could run up to my 4th floor walk-up, but walking distances (or standing for a period) would definitely tax my body in a way it does not now, and running (which I otherwise enjoy) was hard and no longer fun. Losing weight has made me much more inclined to be active too.
On BMI, pretty accurate, especially for women, and if one is an outlier one will know it, as one will have much more muscle than is common (and even so we are talking mostly men and mostly something like 26-27 BMI, not obese -- but if one has reason to think one is an exception, I'd agree body fat is the better measure).4 -
The morbidity and mortality tables really don't support "healthy weight" having a BMI cutoff for all populations.1
-
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
see above...what VintageFeline said..
but I will add this as well...
physical health is one thing...and being overfat as above is not healthy...being obese as an average individual usually has emotional health/mental health issues as well...
so again..blood numbers might be great but BMI is a good measure and HAES is not valid.
I was with you on the physical health points, though with an assumption on my part that there are probably a very few healthy/fit/overfat outliers somewhere (far, far fewer than the number who perceive themselves as such
).
Out of curiosity, what's your evidence for impaired mental/emotional health?
Purely anecdotal, but I know quite a few overfat people, and I don't perceive the incidence of emotional/mental maladjustment among them to be materially higher than among fit/thin friends and acquaintances.
I know there's a common stereotype about fat people and emotional problems, but I'm not sold on the theory. Most people (all sizes) have some issues of ego, self-image, anxiety, sub-clinical depression and what not.
Is there evidence that it's worse among the over-fat? If we lose weight and keep it off, are we likely to be "cured" (as we may be of bad blood lipids or high blood pressure)? Or are we permanently doomed?5 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
see above...what VintageFeline said..
but I will add this as well...
physical health is one thing...and being overfat as above is not healthy...being obese as an average individual usually has emotional health/mental health issues as well...
so again..blood numbers might be great but BMI is a good measure and HAES is not valid.
I was with you on the physical health points, though with an assumption on my part that there are probably a very few healthy/fit/overfat outliers somewhere (far, far fewer than the number who perceive themselves as such ).
Out of curiosity, what's your evidence for impaired mental/emotional health?
Purely anecdotal, but I know quite a few overfat people, and I don't perceive the incidence of emotional/mental maladjustment among them to be materially higher than among fit/thin friends and acquaintances.
I know there's a common stereotype about fat people and emotional problems, but I'm not sold on the theory. Most people (all sizes) have some issues of ego, self-image, anxiety, sub-clinical depression and what not.
Is there evidence that it's worse among the over-fat? If we lose weight and keep it off, are we likely to be "cured" (as we may be of bad blood lipids or high blood pressure)? Or are we permanently doomed?
the evidence for the impaired mental/emotional health is because the vast majority of the general public have some sort of mental/emotional issue...so ergo it would be as prevalent in the overfat too...
however in the aspect of fat<>fit there is evidence that people who are obese have more mental health issues.
Those issues are either the reason for the weight gain or the weight gain has exasperated them to a degree that they are now impaired.
http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/aaic-2015-coverage/mental-illness-and-obesity/article/479564/
"Several studies have found that a disproportionate number of patients with mental illness are obese compared to the general population." *an exert from the above link*
http://www.obesitynetwork.ca/Obesity-and-Mental-Illness-Addressing-a-Double-Epidemic-322
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740571/
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/152/2/163/87710/Are-the-Obese-at-Greater-Risk-for-Depression
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html
https://www.helpguide.org/harvard/how-excess-weight-affects-your-health.htm
and there is more links but I think those are enough.
I think that those who do suffer from depression are well aware that once that is under control the weight loss is next and easier...and as long as the depression stays at bay (either through meds or other methods) the weight loss is easier to maintain...and that without dealing with the emotional issues the weight loss and/or maintenance may and probably will never happen...
I think that what we have is a situation where if you don't deal with the mental/emotional issues you get yourself into a bad cycle...(speaking from experience) where you gain cause you are sad...you are now overweight and get more sad, eat more, move less, get more sad...and around and around it goes.
I am actually surprised this was questioned...I thought it was common knowledge...
but let me add that just because someone is "depressed" doesn't mean they get fat...everyone is different7 -
KiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy
For now....
Aaahh to be young and untouchable, thems were the days.
My doctor said my lungs and respiratory system were fine when i was a pack a day smoker. But i guarantee it would have caught up with me eventually.
You can only hope for the best and run the gauntlet for so long before it turns around and bites you on the *kitten*.
13 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
see above...what VintageFeline said..
but I will add this as well...
physical health is one thing...and being overfat as above is not healthy...being obese as an average individual usually has emotional health/mental health issues as well...
so again..blood numbers might be great but BMI is a good measure and HAES is not valid.
I was with you on the physical health points, though with an assumption on my part that there are probably a very few healthy/fit/overfat outliers somewhere (far, far fewer than the number who perceive themselves as such ).
Out of curiosity, what's your evidence for impaired mental/emotional health?
Purely anecdotal, but I know quite a few overfat people, and I don't perceive the incidence of emotional/mental maladjustment among them to be materially higher than among fit/thin friends and acquaintances.
I know there's a common stereotype about fat people and emotional problems, but I'm not sold on the theory. Most people (all sizes) have some issues of ego, self-image, anxiety, sub-clinical depression and what not.
Is there evidence that it's worse among the over-fat? If we lose weight and keep it off, are we likely to be "cured" (as we may be of bad blood lipids or high blood pressure)? Or are we permanently doomed?
the evidence for the impaired mental/emotional health is because the vast majority of the general public have some sort of mental/emotional issue...so ergo it would be as prevalent in the overfat too...
however in the aspect of fat<>fit there is evidence that people who are obese have more mental health issues.
Those issues are either the reason for the weight gain or the weight gain has exasperated them to a degree that they are now impaired.
http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/aaic-2015-coverage/mental-illness-and-obesity/article/479564/
"Several studies have found that a disproportionate number of patients with mental illness are obese compared to the general population." *an exert from the above link*
http://www.obesitynetwork.ca/Obesity-and-Mental-Illness-Addressing-a-Double-Epidemic-322
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740571/
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/152/2/163/87710/Are-the-Obese-at-Greater-Risk-for-Depression
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html
https://www.helpguide.org/harvard/how-excess-weight-affects-your-health.htm
and there is more links but I think those are enough.
I think that those who do suffer from depression are well aware that once that is under control the weight loss is next and easier...and as long as the depression stays at bay (either through meds or other methods) the weight loss is easier to maintain...and that without dealing with the emotional issues the weight loss and/or maintenance may and probably will never happen...
I think that what we have is a situation where if you don't deal with the mental/emotional issues you get yourself into a bad cycle...(speaking from experience) where you gain cause you are sad...you are now overweight and get more sad, eat more, move less, get more sad...and around and around it goes.
I am actually surprised this was questioned...I thought it was common knowledge...
but let me add that just because someone is "depressed" doesn't mean they get fat...everyone is different
Interesting: Thank you!
On reflection, it's not too surprising to me that mental/emotional difficulties might lead one to be more likely to become obese. The causal arrow in the other direction - that obesity can lead one to mental/emotional difficulties - is less intuitive to me, I have to admit (and the evidence in the links you suggested seems slightly weaker for the latter, though still pretty persuasive).
I suspect my bias comes from having been a relatively mentally healthy, successful obese person who got that way over years by simply eating too much tasty food, and moving too little to burn it off - and from associating with many others of the same description. I can't say that obesity negatively affected my mental or emotional well being . . . though it clearly and definitely affected my physical health.
Thank you: That was informative and thought-provoking.5 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
see above...what VintageFeline said..
but I will add this as well...
physical health is one thing...and being overfat as above is not healthy...being obese as an average individual usually has emotional health/mental health issues as well...
so again..blood numbers might be great but BMI is a good measure and HAES is not valid.
I was with you on the physical health points, though with an assumption on my part that there are probably a very few healthy/fit/overfat outliers somewhere (far, far fewer than the number who perceive themselves as such ).
Out of curiosity, what's your evidence for impaired mental/emotional health?
Purely anecdotal, but I know quite a few overfat people, and I don't perceive the incidence of emotional/mental maladjustment among them to be materially higher than among fit/thin friends and acquaintances.
I know there's a common stereotype about fat people and emotional problems, but I'm not sold on the theory. Most people (all sizes) have some issues of ego, self-image, anxiety, sub-clinical depression and what not.
Is there evidence that it's worse among the over-fat? If we lose weight and keep it off, are we likely to be "cured" (as we may be of bad blood lipids or high blood pressure)? Or are we permanently doomed?
the evidence for the impaired mental/emotional health is because the vast majority of the general public have some sort of mental/emotional issue...so ergo it would be as prevalent in the overfat too...
however in the aspect of fat<>fit there is evidence that people who are obese have more mental health issues.
Those issues are either the reason for the weight gain or the weight gain has exasperated them to a degree that they are now impaired.
http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/aaic-2015-coverage/mental-illness-and-obesity/article/479564/
"Several studies have found that a disproportionate number of patients with mental illness are obese compared to the general population." *an exert from the above link*
http://www.obesitynetwork.ca/Obesity-and-Mental-Illness-Addressing-a-Double-Epidemic-322
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740571/
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/152/2/163/87710/Are-the-Obese-at-Greater-Risk-for-Depression
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html
https://www.helpguide.org/harvard/how-excess-weight-affects-your-health.htm
and there is more links but I think those are enough.
I think that those who do suffer from depression are well aware that once that is under control the weight loss is next and easier...and as long as the depression stays at bay (either through meds or other methods) the weight loss is easier to maintain...and that without dealing with the emotional issues the weight loss and/or maintenance may and probably will never happen...
I think that what we have is a situation where if you don't deal with the mental/emotional issues you get yourself into a bad cycle...(speaking from experience) where you gain cause you are sad...you are now overweight and get more sad, eat more, move less, get more sad...and around and around it goes.
I am actually surprised this was questioned...I thought it was common knowledge...
but let me add that just because someone is "depressed" doesn't mean they get fat...everyone is different
So are mental issues that more common now than say 40-50 years ago when the % of the population being obese was much lower?
Honest question.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
see above...what VintageFeline said..
but I will add this as well...
physical health is one thing...and being overfat as above is not healthy...being obese as an average individual usually has emotional health/mental health issues as well...
so again..blood numbers might be great but BMI is a good measure and HAES is not valid.
I was with you on the physical health points, though with an assumption on my part that there are probably a very few healthy/fit/overfat outliers somewhere (far, far fewer than the number who perceive themselves as such ).
Out of curiosity, what's your evidence for impaired mental/emotional health?
Purely anecdotal, but I know quite a few overfat people, and I don't perceive the incidence of emotional/mental maladjustment among them to be materially higher than among fit/thin friends and acquaintances.
I know there's a common stereotype about fat people and emotional problems, but I'm not sold on the theory. Most people (all sizes) have some issues of ego, self-image, anxiety, sub-clinical depression and what not.
Is there evidence that it's worse among the over-fat? If we lose weight and keep it off, are we likely to be "cured" (as we may be of bad blood lipids or high blood pressure)? Or are we permanently doomed?
the evidence for the impaired mental/emotional health is because the vast majority of the general public have some sort of mental/emotional issue...so ergo it would be as prevalent in the overfat too...
however in the aspect of fat<>fit there is evidence that people who are obese have more mental health issues.
Those issues are either the reason for the weight gain or the weight gain has exasperated them to a degree that they are now impaired.
http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/aaic-2015-coverage/mental-illness-and-obesity/article/479564/
"Several studies have found that a disproportionate number of patients with mental illness are obese compared to the general population." *an exert from the above link*
http://www.obesitynetwork.ca/Obesity-and-Mental-Illness-Addressing-a-Double-Epidemic-322
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740571/
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/152/2/163/87710/Are-the-Obese-at-Greater-Risk-for-Depression
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html
https://www.helpguide.org/harvard/how-excess-weight-affects-your-health.htm
and there is more links but I think those are enough.
I think that those who do suffer from depression are well aware that once that is under control the weight loss is next and easier...and as long as the depression stays at bay (either through meds or other methods) the weight loss is easier to maintain...and that without dealing with the emotional issues the weight loss and/or maintenance may and probably will never happen...
I think that what we have is a situation where if you don't deal with the mental/emotional issues you get yourself into a bad cycle...(speaking from experience) where you gain cause you are sad...you are now overweight and get more sad, eat more, move less, get more sad...and around and around it goes.
I am actually surprised this was questioned...I thought it was common knowledge...
but let me add that just because someone is "depressed" doesn't mean they get fat...everyone is different
Wrong:
"Myth: Mental health problems don't affect me.
Fact: Mental health problems are actually very common. In 2014, about:
One in five American adults experienced a mental health issue
One in 10 young people experienced a period of major depression
One in 25 Americans lived with a serious mental illness, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or major depression"
Source:
https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/index.html
Obviously a problem, but far from the majority.3 -
Packerjohn wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
see above...what VintageFeline said..
but I will add this as well...
physical health is one thing...and being overfat as above is not healthy...being obese as an average individual usually has emotional health/mental health issues as well...
so again..blood numbers might be great but BMI is a good measure and HAES is not valid.
I was with you on the physical health points, though with an assumption on my part that there are probably a very few healthy/fit/overfat outliers somewhere (far, far fewer than the number who perceive themselves as such ).
Out of curiosity, what's your evidence for impaired mental/emotional health?
Purely anecdotal, but I know quite a few overfat people, and I don't perceive the incidence of emotional/mental maladjustment among them to be materially higher than among fit/thin friends and acquaintances.
I know there's a common stereotype about fat people and emotional problems, but I'm not sold on the theory. Most people (all sizes) have some issues of ego, self-image, anxiety, sub-clinical depression and what not.
Is there evidence that it's worse among the over-fat? If we lose weight and keep it off, are we likely to be "cured" (as we may be of bad blood lipids or high blood pressure)? Or are we permanently doomed?
the evidence for the impaired mental/emotional health is because the vast majority of the general public have some sort of mental/emotional issue...so ergo it would be as prevalent in the overfat too...
however in the aspect of fat<>fit there is evidence that people who are obese have more mental health issues.
Those issues are either the reason for the weight gain or the weight gain has exasperated them to a degree that they are now impaired.
http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/aaic-2015-coverage/mental-illness-and-obesity/article/479564/
"Several studies have found that a disproportionate number of patients with mental illness are obese compared to the general population." *an exert from the above link*
http://www.obesitynetwork.ca/Obesity-and-Mental-Illness-Addressing-a-Double-Epidemic-322
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740571/
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/152/2/163/87710/Are-the-Obese-at-Greater-Risk-for-Depression
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html
https://www.helpguide.org/harvard/how-excess-weight-affects-your-health.htm
and there is more links but I think those are enough.
I think that those who do suffer from depression are well aware that once that is under control the weight loss is next and easier...and as long as the depression stays at bay (either through meds or other methods) the weight loss is easier to maintain...and that without dealing with the emotional issues the weight loss and/or maintenance may and probably will never happen...
I think that what we have is a situation where if you don't deal with the mental/emotional issues you get yourself into a bad cycle...(speaking from experience) where you gain cause you are sad...you are now overweight and get more sad, eat more, move less, get more sad...and around and around it goes.
I am actually surprised this was questioned...I thought it was common knowledge...
but let me add that just because someone is "depressed" doesn't mean they get fat...everyone is different
So are mental issues that more common now than say 40-50 years ago when the % of the population being obese was much lower?
Honest question.
I would think lifestyle played a role in excess weight too. 40-50 years ago we were naturally more active in day to day life and portions were smaller. So less opportunity to get as excessively overweight as we are now. And of course now calorie dense hyper-palatable foods are incredibly cheap and easy to get your hands on so we can sit in our cars having been into the supermarket/then sit in front of the TV/play on our phones and computers whilst snacking away.
Personally, I only got into the obese category when I stopped having to walk to and from and through tube stations every single day to get anywhere in London. It was when that stopped, coupled with a mental health crisis (which speaks to the mental health aspect of excess weight) that it got out of hand.
As we all know there's no one definitive reason for anything really but how we live our lives now compared to 40/50/60 years ago is worlds apart.2 -
Packerjohn wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
see above...what VintageFeline said..
but I will add this as well...
physical health is one thing...and being overfat as above is not healthy...being obese as an average individual usually has emotional health/mental health issues as well...
so again..blood numbers might be great but BMI is a good measure and HAES is not valid.
I was with you on the physical health points, though with an assumption on my part that there are probably a very few healthy/fit/overfat outliers somewhere (far, far fewer than the number who perceive themselves as such ).
Out of curiosity, what's your evidence for impaired mental/emotional health?
Purely anecdotal, but I know quite a few overfat people, and I don't perceive the incidence of emotional/mental maladjustment among them to be materially higher than among fit/thin friends and acquaintances.
I know there's a common stereotype about fat people and emotional problems, but I'm not sold on the theory. Most people (all sizes) have some issues of ego, self-image, anxiety, sub-clinical depression and what not.
Is there evidence that it's worse among the over-fat? If we lose weight and keep it off, are we likely to be "cured" (as we may be of bad blood lipids or high blood pressure)? Or are we permanently doomed?
the evidence for the impaired mental/emotional health is because the vast majority of the general public have some sort of mental/emotional issue...so ergo it would be as prevalent in the overfat too...
however in the aspect of fat<>fit there is evidence that people who are obese have more mental health issues.
Those issues are either the reason for the weight gain or the weight gain has exasperated them to a degree that they are now impaired.
http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/aaic-2015-coverage/mental-illness-and-obesity/article/479564/
"Several studies have found that a disproportionate number of patients with mental illness are obese compared to the general population." *an exert from the above link*
http://www.obesitynetwork.ca/Obesity-and-Mental-Illness-Addressing-a-Double-Epidemic-322
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740571/
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/152/2/163/87710/Are-the-Obese-at-Greater-Risk-for-Depression
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html
https://www.helpguide.org/harvard/how-excess-weight-affects-your-health.htm
and there is more links but I think those are enough.
I think that those who do suffer from depression are well aware that once that is under control the weight loss is next and easier...and as long as the depression stays at bay (either through meds or other methods) the weight loss is easier to maintain...and that without dealing with the emotional issues the weight loss and/or maintenance may and probably will never happen...
I think that what we have is a situation where if you don't deal with the mental/emotional issues you get yourself into a bad cycle...(speaking from experience) where you gain cause you are sad...you are now overweight and get more sad, eat more, move less, get more sad...and around and around it goes.
I am actually surprised this was questioned...I thought it was common knowledge...
but let me add that just because someone is "depressed" doesn't mean they get fat...everyone is different
Wrong:
"Myth: Mental health problems don't affect me.
Fact: Mental health problems are actually very common. In 2014, about:
One in five American adults experienced a mental health issue
One in 10 young people experienced a period of major depression
One in 25 Americans lived with a serious mental illness, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or major depression"
Source:
https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/index.html
Obviously a problem, but far from the majority.
it's not jsut mental issues that I am speaking of tho.
Emotional issues as well.
and to me 1 in 5 is probably not valid..sort of like the number of women who are assaulted in their lifetime...it's based on those who report right...
Because I know in my family alone (12 of us at least 3/4 are impacted)2 -
Packerjohn wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
see above...what VintageFeline said..
but I will add this as well...
physical health is one thing...and being overfat as above is not healthy...being obese as an average individual usually has emotional health/mental health issues as well...
so again..blood numbers might be great but BMI is a good measure and HAES is not valid.
I was with you on the physical health points, though with an assumption on my part that there are probably a very few healthy/fit/overfat outliers somewhere (far, far fewer than the number who perceive themselves as such ).
Out of curiosity, what's your evidence for impaired mental/emotional health?
Purely anecdotal, but I know quite a few overfat people, and I don't perceive the incidence of emotional/mental maladjustment among them to be materially higher than among fit/thin friends and acquaintances.
I know there's a common stereotype about fat people and emotional problems, but I'm not sold on the theory. Most people (all sizes) have some issues of ego, self-image, anxiety, sub-clinical depression and what not.
Is there evidence that it's worse among the over-fat? If we lose weight and keep it off, are we likely to be "cured" (as we may be of bad blood lipids or high blood pressure)? Or are we permanently doomed?
the evidence for the impaired mental/emotional health is because the vast majority of the general public have some sort of mental/emotional issue...so ergo it would be as prevalent in the overfat too...
however in the aspect of fat<>fit there is evidence that people who are obese have more mental health issues.
Those issues are either the reason for the weight gain or the weight gain has exasperated them to a degree that they are now impaired.
http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/aaic-2015-coverage/mental-illness-and-obesity/article/479564/
"Several studies have found that a disproportionate number of patients with mental illness are obese compared to the general population." *an exert from the above link*
http://www.obesitynetwork.ca/Obesity-and-Mental-Illness-Addressing-a-Double-Epidemic-322
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740571/
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/152/2/163/87710/Are-the-Obese-at-Greater-Risk-for-Depression
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html
https://www.helpguide.org/harvard/how-excess-weight-affects-your-health.htm
and there is more links but I think those are enough.
I think that those who do suffer from depression are well aware that once that is under control the weight loss is next and easier...and as long as the depression stays at bay (either through meds or other methods) the weight loss is easier to maintain...and that without dealing with the emotional issues the weight loss and/or maintenance may and probably will never happen...
I think that what we have is a situation where if you don't deal with the mental/emotional issues you get yourself into a bad cycle...(speaking from experience) where you gain cause you are sad...you are now overweight and get more sad, eat more, move less, get more sad...and around and around it goes.
I am actually surprised this was questioned...I thought it was common knowledge...
but let me add that just because someone is "depressed" doesn't mean they get fat...everyone is different
So are mental issues that more common now than say 40-50 years ago when the % of the population being obese was much lower?
Honest question.
I think they are out in the open more...
My husbands grandfather came back from WWII...shell shocked...not a mental disorder...
another man came back from Vietnam...PTDS...aka shell shocked...a mental disorder.
as well I think that if you speak to the general public they are all willing to say " I have X" when 40 years ago ...no way was it talked about.6 -
Christine_72 wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy
For now....
Aaahh to be young and untouchable, thems were the days.
My doctor said my lungs and respiratory system were fine when i was a pack a day smoker. But i guarantee it would have caught up with me eventually.
You can only hope for the best and run the gauntlet for so long before it turns around and bites you on the *kitten*.
One more chime-in: my bloodwork came back perfect, as well, except for my a1c. So, I lost 80 lbs, and my a1c got better. I started running, and my labs got even better. Yay, right?
Then, I started to be able to crack my knees with my leg muscles. I went to a sports medicine MD. Turns out, my cartilage in my knees has worn down from supporting that extra weight for all those years--something I hadn't even considered when I was obese. Joints can only take so much, it seems...7 -
Packerjohn wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
see above...what VintageFeline said..
but I will add this as well...
physical health is one thing...and being overfat as above is not healthy...being obese as an average individual usually has emotional health/mental health issues as well...
so again..blood numbers might be great but BMI is a good measure and HAES is not valid.
I was with you on the physical health points, though with an assumption on my part that there are probably a very few healthy/fit/overfat outliers somewhere (far, far fewer than the number who perceive themselves as such ).
Out of curiosity, what's your evidence for impaired mental/emotional health?
Purely anecdotal, but I know quite a few overfat people, and I don't perceive the incidence of emotional/mental maladjustment among them to be materially higher than among fit/thin friends and acquaintances.
I know there's a common stereotype about fat people and emotional problems, but I'm not sold on the theory. Most people (all sizes) have some issues of ego, self-image, anxiety, sub-clinical depression and what not.
Is there evidence that it's worse among the over-fat? If we lose weight and keep it off, are we likely to be "cured" (as we may be of bad blood lipids or high blood pressure)? Or are we permanently doomed?
the evidence for the impaired mental/emotional health is because the vast majority of the general public have some sort of mental/emotional issue...so ergo it would be as prevalent in the overfat too...
however in the aspect of fat<>fit there is evidence that people who are obese have more mental health issues.
Those issues are either the reason for the weight gain or the weight gain has exasperated them to a degree that they are now impaired.
http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/aaic-2015-coverage/mental-illness-and-obesity/article/479564/
"Several studies have found that a disproportionate number of patients with mental illness are obese compared to the general population." *an exert from the above link*
http://www.obesitynetwork.ca/Obesity-and-Mental-Illness-Addressing-a-Double-Epidemic-322
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740571/
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/152/2/163/87710/Are-the-Obese-at-Greater-Risk-for-Depression
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html
https://www.helpguide.org/harvard/how-excess-weight-affects-your-health.htm
and there is more links but I think those are enough.
I think that those who do suffer from depression are well aware that once that is under control the weight loss is next and easier...and as long as the depression stays at bay (either through meds or other methods) the weight loss is easier to maintain...and that without dealing with the emotional issues the weight loss and/or maintenance may and probably will never happen...
I think that what we have is a situation where if you don't deal with the mental/emotional issues you get yourself into a bad cycle...(speaking from experience) where you gain cause you are sad...you are now overweight and get more sad, eat more, move less, get more sad...and around and around it goes.
I am actually surprised this was questioned...I thought it was common knowledge...
but let me add that just because someone is "depressed" doesn't mean they get fat...everyone is different
Wrong:
"Myth: Mental health problems don't affect me.
Fact: Mental health problems are actually very common. In 2014, about:
One in five American adults experienced a mental health issue
One in 10 young people experienced a period of major depression
One in 25 Americans lived with a serious mental illness, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or major depression"
Source:
https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/index.html
Obviously a problem, but far from the majority.
it's not jsut mental issues that I am speaking of tho.
Emotional issues as well.
and to me 1 in 5 is probably not valid..sort of like the number of women who are assaulted in their lifetime...it's based on those who report right...
Because I know in my family alone (12 of us at least 3/4 are impacted)
Because the US Department of Health and Human Services doesn't know anything about this?
Have 3/4 of your family been clinically diagnosed with a mental health issue, or is that just your gut feel?
1 -
KiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
You may find this interesting:
http://www.beauty-review.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Are-metabolically-healthy-overweight-and-obesity-benign-conditions.-A-systematic-review-and-meta-analysis.pdf
TL;DNR:Compared with metabolically healthy normal-weight individuals, obese persons are at increased risk for adverse longterm outcomes even in the absence of metabolic abnormalities, suggesting that there is no healthy pattern of increased weight.4 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because it's not worth the hassle to get below 200 lbsKiskaVedma wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.
you know what they call a person who graduated at the bottom of the class at medical school??? Doctor....
have a degree does not guarantee that they are good at what they do or know all esp as a doctor.
HAES movement is not valid for health....mental health maybe...self esteem maybe...
but to claim that being obese/fat and being healthy is invalid...you might have good blood numbers but that isn't all there is to be healthy.
"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
Can you explain why you are overweight/fat/obese?
Yes, Under 10 minutes
can you run a mile unaided without stopping?
can you walk 3 without stopping in a reasonable amount of time?
Yes, under 45 minutes.
Palms flat on the floor. Heels flat, toes splayed, knees straight but not locked.
If not then your cardio is not healthy
can you touch your toes?
if no then your flexibility is not healthy.
see how that works.
not sure why you answered these questions they were a specific individual claiming to be healthy...even tho they are overweight (by their own admission weigh a lot)
Because I also fit that profile.
And when I hit my maintenance/WL goal and keep it for at least a year, I will still be categorized as obese.
see above...what VintageFeline said..
but I will add this as well...
physical health is one thing...and being overfat as above is not healthy...being obese as an average individual usually has emotional health/mental health issues as well...
so again..blood numbers might be great but BMI is a good measure and HAES is not valid.
I was with you on the physical health points, though with an assumption on my part that there are probably a very few healthy/fit/overfat outliers somewhere (far, far fewer than the number who perceive themselves as such ).
Out of curiosity, what's your evidence for impaired mental/emotional health?
Purely anecdotal, but I know quite a few overfat people, and I don't perceive the incidence of emotional/mental maladjustment among them to be materially higher than among fit/thin friends and acquaintances.
I know there's a common stereotype about fat people and emotional problems, but I'm not sold on the theory. Most people (all sizes) have some issues of ego, self-image, anxiety, sub-clinical depression and what not.
Is there evidence that it's worse among the over-fat? If we lose weight and keep it off, are we likely to be "cured" (as we may be of bad blood lipids or high blood pressure)? Or are we permanently doomed?
the evidence for the impaired mental/emotional health is because the vast majority of the general public have some sort of mental/emotional issue...so ergo it would be as prevalent in the overfat too...
however in the aspect of fat<>fit there is evidence that people who are obese have more mental health issues.
Those issues are either the reason for the weight gain or the weight gain has exasperated them to a degree that they are now impaired.
http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/aaic-2015-coverage/mental-illness-and-obesity/article/479564/
"Several studies have found that a disproportionate number of patients with mental illness are obese compared to the general population." *an exert from the above link*
http://www.obesitynetwork.ca/Obesity-and-Mental-Illness-Addressing-a-Double-Epidemic-322
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740571/
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/152/2/163/87710/Are-the-Obese-at-Greater-Risk-for-Depression
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html
https://www.helpguide.org/harvard/how-excess-weight-affects-your-health.htm
and there is more links but I think those are enough.
I think that those who do suffer from depression are well aware that once that is under control the weight loss is next and easier...and as long as the depression stays at bay (either through meds or other methods) the weight loss is easier to maintain...and that without dealing with the emotional issues the weight loss and/or maintenance may and probably will never happen...
I think that what we have is a situation where if you don't deal with the mental/emotional issues you get yourself into a bad cycle...(speaking from experience) where you gain cause you are sad...you are now overweight and get more sad, eat more, move less, get more sad...and around and around it goes.
I am actually surprised this was questioned...I thought it was common knowledge...
but let me add that just because someone is "depressed" doesn't mean they get fat...everyone is different
Wrong:
"Myth: Mental health problems don't affect me.
Fact: Mental health problems are actually very common. In 2014, about:
One in five American adults experienced a mental health issue
One in 10 young people experienced a period of major depression
One in 25 Americans lived with a serious mental illness, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or major depression"
Source:
https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/index.html
Obviously a problem, but far from the majority.
it's not jsut mental issues that I am speaking of tho.
Emotional issues as well.
and to me 1 in 5 is probably not valid..sort of like the number of women who are assaulted in their lifetime...it's based on those who report right...
Because I know in my family alone (12 of us at least 3/4 are impacted)
Because the US Department of Health and Human Services doesn't know anything about this?
Have 3/4 of your family been clinically diagnosed with a mental health issue, or is that just your gut feel?
Diagnosed actually. And I am just saying the us dept of health also quotes rape stats that aren't valid either. I know lots who will just power through and never get help.3 -
I would rather lower calorie intake than exercise. CI (without the CO). Also, I enjoy sucralose. Aspartame or Sucralose. Easy way to lower calories.2
-
Too many people who have WLS end up needing a second operation to fix the damage from the first one.2
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions