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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
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Alanis Morrisette could only dream of encountering the kind of irony that's present in this thread.23
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When people talk down to anyone it's because they are threatened. It's easy to fake confidence, quite difficult to grasp and retain true confidence as it takes consistency, discipline, and hard work.
Looking at this in a positive perspective take it as a compliment if someone speaks down to you.
Yes, sometimes that is the reason. But it's not the only possible reason.
Sometimes person A talks down to person B because A perceives him/herself to be smarter, better informed, more authoritative, or some such thing. Sometimes person A is correct, but that doesn't always make the behavior less offensive.6 -
stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »Mansplaining isn't a thing. Just because a man can't experience something personally, doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about it.
... And before you say 'I' am mansplaining, if you are still deludedly adament that I am, the same can in turn be applied to women. You don't know what men are experiencing, so don't 'womansplain'... Oh wait, does that sound ridiculous?
If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter (incorrectly) telling me how their car works when I'm a certified automotive technician and automotive parts person with over 17 years of experience in the industry? If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter arguing with me when they have come to the dealership to tap my knowledge and experience? (Like the tardball I just got off the phone with insisting that a wire is run directly from the battery to his 7-pin hitch connector only moments ago). If mansplaining is not a thing, why are there men at my parts counter who do not believe me when I tell them something but have no trouble believing any one of the men I work with when they say the exact same thing as I just did?
How about you GTFOH with your "mansplaining is not a thing" garbage?
It's entirely possible that it has to do with where you're standing and how you're dressed vs your gender.
So what's your theory for why we don't hear guys complaining how their customers refuse to accept their answer and then accept the same information from a female coworker nearly as often? Do you think women are just more sensitive and less capable of observing events rationally?13 -
clicketykeys wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »Mansplaining isn't a thing. Just because a man can't experience something personally, doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about it.
... And before you say 'I' am mansplaining, if you are still deludedly adament that I am, the same can in turn be applied to women. You don't know what men are experiencing, so don't 'womansplain'... Oh wait, does that sound ridiculous?
If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter (incorrectly) telling me how their car works when I'm a certified automotive technician and automotive parts person with over 17 years of experience in the industry? If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter arguing with me when they have come to the dealership to tap my knowledge and experience? (Like the tardball I just got off the phone with insisting that a wire is run directly from the battery to his 7-pin hitch connector only moments ago). If mansplaining is not a thing, why are there men at my parts counter who do not believe me when I tell them something but have no trouble believing any one of the men I work with when they say the exact same thing as I just did?
How about you GTFOH with your "mansplaining is not a thing" garbage?
It's entirely possible that it has to do with where you're standing and how you're dressed vs your gender.
So what's your theory for why we don't hear guys complaining how their customers refuse to accept their answer and then accept the same information from a female coworker nearly as often? Do you think women are just more sensitive and less capable of observing events rationally?
So your saying this never, ever happens??0 -
clicketykeys wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »Mansplaining isn't a thing. Just because a man can't experience something personally, doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about it.
... And before you say 'I' am mansplaining, if you are still deludedly adament that I am, the same can in turn be applied to women. You don't know what men are experiencing, so don't 'womansplain'... Oh wait, does that sound ridiculous?
If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter (incorrectly) telling me how their car works when I'm a certified automotive technician and automotive parts person with over 17 years of experience in the industry? If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter arguing with me when they have come to the dealership to tap my knowledge and experience? (Like the tardball I just got off the phone with insisting that a wire is run directly from the battery to his 7-pin hitch connector only moments ago). If mansplaining is not a thing, why are there men at my parts counter who do not believe me when I tell them something but have no trouble believing any one of the men I work with when they say the exact same thing as I just did?
How about you GTFOH with your "mansplaining is not a thing" garbage?
It's entirely possible that it has to do with where you're standing and how you're dressed vs your gender.
So what's your theory for why we don't hear guys complaining how their customers refuse to accept their answer and then accept the same information from a female coworker nearly as often? Do you think women are just more sensitive and less capable of observing events rationally?
So your saying this never, ever happens??
Well, she did say "why don't we hear . . . nearly as often".
I'm thinking there's a hint about the answer to your question in there somewhere.12 -
clicketykeys wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »Mansplaining isn't a thing. Just because a man can't experience something personally, doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about it.
... And before you say 'I' am mansplaining, if you are still deludedly adament that I am, the same can in turn be applied to women. You don't know what men are experiencing, so don't 'womansplain'... Oh wait, does that sound ridiculous?
If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter (incorrectly) telling me how their car works when I'm a certified automotive technician and automotive parts person with over 17 years of experience in the industry? If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter arguing with me when they have come to the dealership to tap my knowledge and experience? (Like the tardball I just got off the phone with insisting that a wire is run directly from the battery to his 7-pin hitch connector only moments ago). If mansplaining is not a thing, why are there men at my parts counter who do not believe me when I tell them something but have no trouble believing any one of the men I work with when they say the exact same thing as I just did?
How about you GTFOH with your "mansplaining is not a thing" garbage?
It's entirely possible that it has to do with where you're standing and how you're dressed vs your gender.
So what's your theory for why we don't hear guys complaining how their customers refuse to accept their answer and then accept the same information from a female coworker nearly as often? Do you think women are just more sensitive and less capable of observing events rationally?
So your saying this never, ever happens??
Well, she did say "why don't we hear . . . nearly as often".
I'm thinking there's a hint about the answer to your question in there somewhere.
Perhaps its because "guys" are conditioned/trained/nurtured to desire, embrace, pursue, accept, and flourish in opposition and adversity..13 -
I pretty much guarantee no man has ever had a customer tell them they'd be much prettier if they wore a little makeup. This is not a terribly common occurrence for me but I have heard it on more than one occasion over the years. As if being pretty has any bearing on the work I do lol14
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stanmann571 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »Mansplaining isn't a thing. Just because a man can't experience something personally, doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about it.
... And before you say 'I' am mansplaining, if you are still deludedly adament that I am, the same can in turn be applied to women. You don't know what men are experiencing, so don't 'womansplain'... Oh wait, does that sound ridiculous?
If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter (incorrectly) telling me how their car works when I'm a certified automotive technician and automotive parts person with over 17 years of experience in the industry? If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter arguing with me when they have come to the dealership to tap my knowledge and experience? (Like the tardball I just got off the phone with insisting that a wire is run directly from the battery to his 7-pin hitch connector only moments ago). If mansplaining is not a thing, why are there men at my parts counter who do not believe me when I tell them something but have no trouble believing any one of the men I work with when they say the exact same thing as I just did?
How about you GTFOH with your "mansplaining is not a thing" garbage?
It's entirely possible that it has to do with where you're standing and how you're dressed vs your gender.
So what's your theory for why we don't hear guys complaining how their customers refuse to accept their answer and then accept the same information from a female coworker nearly as often? Do you think women are just more sensitive and less capable of observing events rationally?
So your saying this never, ever happens??
Well, she did say "why don't we hear . . . nearly as often".
I'm thinking there's a hint about the answer to your question in there somewhere.
Perhaps its because "guys" are conditioned/trained/nurtured to desire, embrace, pursue, accept, and flourish in opposition and adversity..
Oh come ON. But if that is true, why are boys encouraged to do that more than girls/women? Gender specific expectations perchance?
I happened to not really encounter it growing up (other than victim shaming about something pretty devastating but that's by the by for this debate). I was the one in the family with all the high achieving. I was never discouraged from joining in on all the "boy" stuff. I got in and got dirty, metaphorically or literally. I've rarely come up against it in the workplace either, although I did once have a tenant express great shock at my age and appearance when meeting me in person as I sounded "like a battleaxe".
And yet, I absolutely see where being female leads to higher instances of male patronisation. I don't get what's so offensive about admitting that as a male. I happen to know plenty of men who find it tiresome too.
Not all men but enough men.13 -
stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »Mansplaining isn't a thing. Just because a man can't experience something personally, doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about it.
... And before you say 'I' am mansplaining, if you are still deludedly adament that I am, the same can in turn be applied to women. You don't know what men are experiencing, so don't 'womansplain'... Oh wait, does that sound ridiculous?
If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter (incorrectly) telling me how their car works when I'm a certified automotive technician and automotive parts person with over 17 years of experience in the industry? If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter arguing with me when they have come to the dealership to tap my knowledge and experience? (Like the tardball I just got off the phone with insisting that a wire is run directly from the battery to his 7-pin hitch connector only moments ago). If mansplaining is not a thing, why are there men at my parts counter who do not believe me when I tell them something but have no trouble believing any one of the men I work with when they say the exact same thing as I just did?
How about you GTFOH with your "mansplaining is not a thing" garbage?
It's entirely possible that it has to do with where you're standing and how you're dressed vs your gender.
Please do tell me what better place I could be standing than behind the parts counter and directly in front of the professional accreditation indicating that I'm qualified to dispense the knowledge I have? Please also tell me what better way I can be dressed than in my work uniform with a name tag identifying me as the person belonging to said professional accreditation? While you're at it, please explain exactly how what I'm wearing or where I'm standing has any effect on the people I'm talking to over the phone?
Lets see "work uniform" white shirt. tan or dark khaki slacks. That's a salesperson uniform not a technician uniform.
Technicians wear jump suits or coveralls.
Ditto for talking on the phone.... that's what a salesperson does, not a technician.born_of_fire74 wrote: »Really, just stop trying to explain away my life's experience. These are not isolated incidents that happened only once on a fluke or because someone made a simple mistake. This is years and years of my life--17 years I've worked in this industry, 18 as of August. If you're truly interested in learning the reality of women working in a male-dominated industry, add me a as a friend and we can long, detailed conversations for as long as you like in which I will relate to you the ways that I am diminished for being a woman over and over and over. In the meantime, you dissemblers need to understand that discounting my ability to recognize errors made by kind people versus when people are not nice is incredibly rude.
CSARdriver, I really like your post and I totally agree with it. I am a strong person and I don't require outside validation from any of the people I encounter on a daily basis, which is why I can be happy coming to this job day in and day out. Just because I am confident in my knowledge and abilities and don't let anyone else's ignorance drag me down, however, does not mean that these things do not occur.
For an allegedly strong person you're really wallowing in your pity party. Life is hard all over. Press on, or complain.
Stating facts is not a pity party. Nor is it complaining.
You are talking about experiences of which you have no knowledge and telling me, the person with the experience, that I don't know what I'm talking about. You have no idea what my work uniform looks like and have completely discounted the fact that I wear a name tag. You do not understand the job that I do even as you attempt to tell me how I am deficient at it. You are dismissing me as overly-emotional and unable to gauge other people's behaviour. This is exactly what mansplaining is.
You were cordially invited to discuss this privately but instead decided to mansplain. Even if the women in your life can stomach this kind of crap from you, I'm through. Good day.
By all means, if your "work uniform" isn't a collared shirt and khakis, Say so.
But the fact that you haven't indicates that I hit the nail on the head.
OH, and nobody reads nametags.
And I have no interest in having a private chat.
If you can't effectively articulate and answer my points publicly, then you certainly can't do so privately.
I'm a woman and to be honest if you were behind the counter answering calls and tending to customers then I'd think you were a service associate rather than a technician regardless of what you had on or the fact that your name is attached to your shirt.
Does that make me guilty of womansplaing?
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stanmann571 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »Mansplaining isn't a thing. Just because a man can't experience something personally, doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about it.
... And before you say 'I' am mansplaining, if you are still deludedly adament that I am, the same can in turn be applied to women. You don't know what men are experiencing, so don't 'womansplain'... Oh wait, does that sound ridiculous?
If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter (incorrectly) telling me how their car works when I'm a certified automotive technician and automotive parts person with over 17 years of experience in the industry? If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter arguing with me when they have come to the dealership to tap my knowledge and experience? (Like the tardball I just got off the phone with insisting that a wire is run directly from the battery to his 7-pin hitch connector only moments ago). If mansplaining is not a thing, why are there men at my parts counter who do not believe me when I tell them something but have no trouble believing any one of the men I work with when they say the exact same thing as I just did?
How about you GTFOH with your "mansplaining is not a thing" garbage?
It's entirely possible that it has to do with where you're standing and how you're dressed vs your gender.
So what's your theory for why we don't hear guys complaining how their customers refuse to accept their answer and then accept the same information from a female coworker nearly as often? Do you think women are just more sensitive and less capable of observing events rationally?
So your saying this never, ever happens??
Well, she did say "why don't we hear . . . nearly as often".
I'm thinking there's a hint about the answer to your question in there somewhere.
Perhaps its because "guys" are conditioned/trained/nurtured to desire, embrace, pursue, accept, and flourish in opposition and adversity..
4 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Perhaps its because "guys" are conditioned/trained/nurtured to desire, embrace, pursue, accept, and flourish in opposition and adversity..
i almost admire the depths of the hole you've just dug for yourself.
almost.
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stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I'd love to see how cavalier the "life ain't fair" attitudes displayed in this thread would be to this whole workplace ish if we had a matriarchal society that deferred to women and the gender norms were reversed.
Well, you see, the problem isn't the things the mansplainers are doing, the problem is that we are calling the things they are doing "mansplaining".
The problem is you're pretending those things are being done because you're a woman.
They happen to men just as often.
I have a friend who has transitioned from woman to man. He says that there is considerable difference in the way people treat him now. He is immediately afforded more respect in many different aspects of his life. Perhaps your lack of understanding stems from lack of experience.24 -
Can't we all just live together in harmony?8
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stevencloser wrote: »Can't we all just live together in harmony?
LOL0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I'd love to see how cavalier the "life ain't fair" attitudes displayed in this thread would be to this whole workplace ish if we had a matriarchal society that deferred to women and the gender norms were reversed.
Well, you see, the problem isn't the things the mansplainers are doing, the problem is that we are calling the things they are doing "mansplaining".
The problem is you're pretending those things are being done because you're a woman.
They happen to men just as often.
I have a friend who has transitioned from woman to man. He says that there is considerable difference in the way people treat him now. He is immediately afforded more respect in many different aspects of his life. Perhaps your lack of understanding stems from lack of experience.
hmm I find this interesting.
I am ex military and I was the 8th woman in my trade in the military in the country (same country as the parts technician) and I actually didn't run into much mansplaining...
I don't now either...
As for your friend yes he probably is...but then there are parts where he is afforded less.
For example as a woman I am a soft place for my child to run to and hug when they are hurt etc not the dad...just saying...
I sometimes think because some people "anticipate" things they see it where it might not be....I have often said you look hard enough and you will find an issue....7 -
stevencloser wrote: »Can't we all just live together in harmony?
because political correctness5 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »Mansplaining isn't a thing. Just because a man can't experience something personally, doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about it.
... And before you say 'I' am mansplaining, if you are still deludedly adament that I am, the same can in turn be applied to women. You don't know what men are experiencing, so don't 'womansplain'... Oh wait, does that sound ridiculous?
If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter (incorrectly) telling me how their car works when I'm a certified automotive technician and automotive parts person with over 17 years of experience in the industry? If illakso domansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter arguing with me when they have come to the dealership to tap my knowledge and experience? (Like the tardball I just got off the phone with insisting that a wire is run directly from the battery to his 7-pin hitch connector only moments ago). If mansplaining is not a thing, why are there men at my parts counter who do not believe me when I tell them something but have no trouble believing any one of the men I work with when they say the exact same thing as I just did?
How about you GTFOH with your "mansplaining is not a thing" garbage?
I would 'awesome' and 'insightful' this times six if I could.
Nice guys: Pay attention around you. There are men (a.k.a. arrogant jerks) around you who do this to woman experts who would not do it to you, even if you're an innocent amateur. Some of them will also do it to other men they implicitly perceive as down-status: Men of color, men who are not native born or for whom their (fluent, yet accented) English is not their first language, even men with certain regional accents in some cases. (P.S. This is why I don't use the term "mansplaining" other than in extreme jest: It's really about implicitly perceived general power, knowedge, dominance. Gender is just one case.)
You're a Good Guy. Don't concede to facile assumptions that others are nice like you. Notice. Counter.
The problem with this is that by using such a prejudicial term you have lumped all men - good and bad together, so we now hang based on the lowest common denominator.
This doesn't further the discussion or resolve the issue. Call out the individual for bad behavior.
Just to be clear: I explicitly distanced myself from the "prejudicial term" - assuming you mean "mansplaining". I explained that I think that some men, i.e. a certain subset who are arrogant jerks, do pretty much the same thing to other men they perceive as down-status from them.
I'd equally agree that certain women who are arrogant jerks do the same thing to both men and women they perceive as down-status, but (1) that wasn't what we were discussing, and (2) I think it's somewhat less common a scenario.
This is about as close to calling out individuals as one can get in a broad discussion, I think. I've called individual people out for it in real life - for talking down to others in an arrogant way, based on (frankly) prejudiced assumptions they were making (i.e., not for "mansplaining").
I've asked that decent men who don't treat women in the ways described up-thread please just notice that this stuff actually happens (and, by implication, believe the women who say it does). It's frequent, it's routine. It's because of some people's (some men's) perceptions about women. It's about gender, in these specific cases.
I spent 30 years in IT, starting when there weren't many women. It's happened to me, and the few women around me in that work setting, over, and over, and over -
men talking to less-expert men when I was the expert; men trying to make deals with men whose manager I was when I was present; etc. I'm not someone who sees sexism behind every shrub, whether it's present or not.
It's a thing, whether you have a special prejudicial word for it or not.
Why is this so hard to believe?
Is anyone refusing to believe that *kitten* inhabit the world? This is strawman construction. If we must down this road, then yes I've been wronged by men and women, but I focused ill thoughts to that individual and did not prosecute an entire gender based on the actions of a bad actor.
It happens to anyone entering a gender dominated field. Weak minds are easily threatened by competition. Male nurses, female engineers, etc. What is the end goal of this?
Simply call out bad behavior. I am no more responsible for the actions of a bad acting male than you are a bad acting female.
Hard to believe anyone is actually wasting time defending a prejudicial term.7 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »The government where I live disagrees with the mansplainer. Parts technicians are in fact parts technicians, as my professional accreditation shows. But what do I know? I'm just the person who went to school to get the accreditation.
Your accreditation says Journeyman(2016), which is a 4-6 year apprenticeship generally,
You say you've got 18 years experience.
There's some inconsistencies here.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »Mansplaining isn't a thing. Just because a man can't experience something personally, doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about it.
... And before you say 'I' am mansplaining, if you are still deludedly adament that I am, the same can in turn be applied to women. You don't know what men are experiencing, so don't 'womansplain'... Oh wait, does that sound ridiculous?
If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter (incorrectly) telling me how their car works when I'm a certified automotive technician and automotive parts person with over 17 years of experience in the industry? If mansplaining is not a thing, why do I have men at my parts counter arguing with me when they have come to the dealership to tap my knowledge and experience? (Like the tardball I just got off the phone with insisting that a wire is run directly from the battery to his 7-pin hitch connector only moments ago). If mansplaining is not a thing, why are there men at my parts counter who do not believe me when I tell them something but have no trouble believing any one of the men I work with when they say the exact same thing as I just did?
How about you GTFOH with your "mansplaining is not a thing" garbage?
It's entirely possible that it has to do with where you're standing and how you're dressed vs your gender.
So what's your theory for why we don't hear guys complaining how their customers refuse to accept their answer and then accept the same information from a female coworker nearly as often? Do you think women are just more sensitive and less capable of observing events rationally?
So your saying this never, ever happens??
Well, she did say "why don't we hear . . . nearly as often".
I'm thinking there's a hint about the answer to your question in there somewhere.
Perhaps its because "guys" are conditioned/trained/nurtured to desire, embrace, pursue, accept, and flourish in opposition and adversity..
That doesn't seem to have anything to do with the point at hand - the observation that more women than men say they experience having their knowledge and expertise shown disrespect by people not listening to them, explaining things to them that they already know, and/or talking over them, and in many cases listening instead to a male with less knowledge or expertise.
What does being trained to flourish in adversity have to do with this?4
This discussion has been closed.
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