Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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skinnyjingbb wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »@Nony_Mouse, @anubis609, thank you for your kind words. They help tremendously. I've actually booked a session with a therapist just last week after my really bad episode. It took me seeing what others were going through in this thread and other threads here that prompted me to do it, something I would never have done previously. Fingers crossed!A small update from me - so much so for the accuracy of my numbers.
Quite an embarrassing confession to make but in the midst of all the conversions from kg to pounds (which I do for this forum and a couple of others), I had my calculations set up as 3500 cals = 1kg, not 1 pound. So my rate of loss the past 4 months was double what it should have been if the 3500 cals = 1 pound rule was taken.
For the science-y people in or reading this thread who may be interested, here are my numbers. And for those who may be scared to up their calories, so many great testimonials already from others who have posted but here's mine. While my monthly numbers do not match projected scale drops each month likely due to water weight, TOM, binging vs whoosh effect etc etc but taken overall, the numbers match (apart from the fact that I need to look at the CO part carefully now since my garmin may not be as accurate as I thought).
(ETA: October was the start of the Refeed approach)
I'm officially on a diet break now (aka maintenance) and will be on this till probably around March next year.
So you ate almost 1000 calories more and still lost weight.
Dont let the main forums now, they will freak the hell out.
Sorry if that has been pointed out, 4 pages behind lol
IKR!
It was this thread that helped me decide to stick to upping cals and going maintenance (refeed) with a higher deficit. I think it was the whoosh effect which I mentioned right at the beginning (first few pages) of this thread AND not to mention, my training got sooo much better too. That was when I thought Holy hell, something's working here!
Next mission - finding how high I can go with calories!!
I actually almost want to make this a separate thread. Because the whole concept of eat more to lose more *kitten* blows peoples minds. I know I did it (went from 1800 to 2300 calories). Too many people just think in linear fashion that they can't fathom increase in EE driven by increase in calories (i.e., spontaneous changes in NEAT or increase in TEA).
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I have found that there is kinda of a calorie sweet spot for me. If I eat 1300/1400 I can not sustain that. I am STARVING. I can eat 1500 for a short period of time. After about 2 weeks I am cranky and my energy is very low. I start to conserve. I am move around a lot less, I don't fidget. If I eat around 1650 I seem to lose about the same amount as I would @ 1500. My energy levels are much better and I move around more.
Exactly. Not to mention TEF also plays a part in increased calorie intake, protein having the greatest effect, followed by carbs; fat is almost negligible but contributes to circulating FFAs and storage if consumed along with overfeeding. Interestingly, you basically become a human oven when you overfeed, especially protein. So even at higher calculated calorie intake, the body ticks up in metabolic processes to digest it, resulting in increased NEAT for most people.
And see, this is a catch 22 for me, because the last thing I want is to be hotter!!
Breakfast finally eaten at almost midday (I did have some yoghurt first thing to take my pred), 60g of protein down the hatch so far.
Is sesame an EFA? My pizza bases are sprouted seed, not sure if there's flax in there as well. Meh, I'll just pour some flax oil on that sucker!!
I got blueberries as well as strawberries at market this morning @anubis609 . And watermelon plants!! Must get some strawberry plants to put in too. This all involves me creating a garden bed somewhere, which is going to have to be an evening activity of course ![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
I have a wee bed at the edge of the deck that some strawberries can go in, just have to weed it. Watermelon garden will require turfing some grass and enriching the soil. AKA using ma muscles!
Oh and my friend who is here kindly doing some weed whacking for me confirmed that he too thinks the mystery bush in my back garden may be a blueberry!! No signs of fruit on it atm though
There are only so many ways I can spin this into something completely unsavory for public consumption, but now that I've put that all in everyone's minds, you're welcome
I'd trade you weather for a while. It's colder and dry af here. And score for the berries! Gimme.
I'm not sure what the conversion rate of flax based omegas is to bioavailable DHA/EPA but better than none at all
skinnyjingbb wrote: »Just saw this thread when I read else where about break up big weight loss into stages. I was 190lbs 40 days ago and now lost 17lbs by keeping to 1000 to 1200 calorie per day. My goal weight is 140lbs, so I am thinking to take a break after 160lbs maintain it for a month or so, eating about 1500 calorie per day so my body won't go into starvation mod. For now, I do have cheat meal so basically I would have one 1500 day a week.
Does any one have similar experience and have any suggestions? Do you think a break is a good idea?
Oh boy. I'm glad you've found this thread, and while it's a trudge, there are some links and podcasts in the early pages that might help you better understand how the body reacts to large deficits for an extended period of time.
Firstly, starvation mode is a myth. Adaptive thermogenesis is the correct term that correlates with the body down regulating hormones and activity to match the amount of limited energy coming in. It will adapt in both directions and it will adapt at homeostasis.
Secondly, what you refer to as "cheat meals" is what we refer to as a structured refeed. It's a purposeful overfeeding period to bring hormonal response back up as high as it can get temporarily before it drops back down.
Thirdly, as you become leaner, your body will fight back harder to try and maintain its fat stores from depleting. Any weight lost will come from muscle if not eating enough protein and strength training to prevent muscle wasting, leading to the unwanted status of "skinny fat."
Like @Nony_Mouse stated, these numbers and weights are out of context to your question, but at the very least, even calculating your BMR at minimum 1730kcal is the rough estimate, and even if we were to take absolute sedentary status as a multiplier, 173 x 0.9 = 1557kcal/day is about the minimum your body could still be losing body fat, assuming protein was accounted for to reduce loss of lean mass.
Trying to slam calories as low as humanly possible is not sustainable long term, and thinking you can maintain at levels of BMR are only encouraging an eating disorder or an unhealthy association to scale weight and food intake.
Without knowing anything else about you, no one can really give any real advice, though if you've been on a continuous deficit this entire time, take a couple weeks from dieting and eat at your new calculated maintenance at your current weight. Take the time to figure out your protein needs (roughly ~1g per pound of your ideal/goal weight, but that need increases when in a deficit), then choose to focus on either higher carb or higher fat, or a balance of both (depends on your preference).
If you haven't taken a liking to any activity yet, then my recommendation will be to include some form of resistance training and progressively increase the challenge over time.
Thank you for all your reply, I am little less than 5'3 and 30 yr female, so 1200 is the suggestion I got for goal of 2 lbs a week. I do want to clarify that my daily calorie log on mfp is around 1000 to 1200 except for cheat day, but I mostly eyeball the portion size and I am Asian, so a lot of food don't have accurate nutrition info, I used mfp before and find I probably under estimate sometime. The fast weight loss is most water weight In the first week, after that is 1.5 to 2 lbs per week. I am doing lower carb, no sweets or bread or rice etc, but still eat lots of veg and some fruit, even occasional small piece of dark chocolate. I used online calculator saying based on my profile I need about 1600 per day to maintain. So that's why I was thinking 1500 as maintainance level. I just started do light cardio 20-30 min around 3 times a week but a bit worried about eating back exercise calorie.
How much do you weigh currently? 2 lbs per week is really only applicable for people with a large amount of weight to lose (like over 100 lbs). Is that you?
And it is not a *kitten* cheat day!! Sorry, but please stop using that word. Call it a maintenance day if you must.
If a calculator told you 1600 to maintain, why did you then decide 1500? That's not maintenance. Obviously calculators are just estimates, but until you have enough data of your own to go on, that's what you should use.
Is there a reason you chose to go lower carb? It's not necessary for weight loss, but if you find it easier to create a deficit that way, especially so you can still get enough protein and fats, then that's fine.
And eat your exercise calories, at least 50-75%. Re-evaluate in ~6 weeks, if you are losing faster than predicted, eat more, if you're losing slower, eat less.4 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »@Nony_Mouse, @anubis609, thank you for your kind words. They help tremendously. I've actually booked a session with a therapist just last week after my really bad episode. It took me seeing what others were going through in this thread and other threads here that prompted me to do it, something I would never have done previously. Fingers crossed!A small update from me - so much so for the accuracy of my numbers.
Quite an embarrassing confession to make but in the midst of all the conversions from kg to pounds (which I do for this forum and a couple of others), I had my calculations set up as 3500 cals = 1kg, not 1 pound. So my rate of loss the past 4 months was double what it should have been if the 3500 cals = 1 pound rule was taken.
For the science-y people in or reading this thread who may be interested, here are my numbers. And for those who may be scared to up their calories, so many great testimonials already from others who have posted but here's mine. While my monthly numbers do not match projected scale drops each month likely due to water weight, TOM, binging vs whoosh effect etc etc but taken overall, the numbers match (apart from the fact that I need to look at the CO part carefully now since my garmin may not be as accurate as I thought).
(ETA: October was the start of the Refeed approach)
I'm officially on a diet break now (aka maintenance) and will be on this till probably around March next year.
So you ate almost 1000 calories more and still lost weight.
Dont let the main forums now, they will freak the hell out.
Sorry if that has been pointed out, 4 pages behind lol IKR!
It was this thread that helped me decide to stick to upping cals and going maintenance (refeed) with a higher deficit. I think it was the whoosh effect which I mentioned right at the beginning (first few pages) of this thread AND not to mention, my training got sooo much better too. That was when I thought Holy hell, something's working here!
Next mission - finding how high I can go with calories!!
I actually almost want to make this a separate thread. Because the whole concept of eat more to lose more *kitten* blows peoples minds. I know I did it (went from 1800 to 2300 calories). Too many people just think in linear fashion that they can't fathom increase in EE driven by increase in calories (i.e., spontaneous changes in NEAT or increase in TEA).
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I have found that there is kinda of a calorie sweet spot for me. If I eat 1300/1400 I can not sustain that. I am STARVING. I can eat 1500 for a short period of time. After about 2 weeks I am cranky and my energy is very low. I start to conserve. I am move around a lot less, I don't fidget. If I eat around 1650 I seem to lose about the same amount as I would @ 1500. My energy levels are much better and I move around more.
Exactly. Not to mention TEF also plays a part in increased calorie intake, protein having the greatest effect, followed by carbs; fat is almost negligible but contributes to circulating FFAs and storage if consumed along with overfeeding. Interestingly, you basically become a human oven when you overfeed, especially protein. So even at higher calculated calorie intake, the body ticks up in metabolic processes to digest it, resulting in increased NEAT for most people.
And see, this is a catch 22 for me, because the last thing I want is to be hotter!!
Breakfast finally eaten at almost midday (I did have some yoghurt first thing to take my pred), 60g of protein down the hatch so far.
Is sesame an EFA? My pizza bases are sprouted seed, not sure if there's flax in there as well. Meh, I'll just pour some flax oil on that sucker!!
I got blueberries as well as strawberries at market this morning @anubis609 . And watermelon plants!! Must get some strawberry plants to put in too. This all involves me creating a garden bed somewhere, which is going to have to be an evening activity of course I have a wee bed at the edge of the deck that some strawberries can go in, just have to weed it. Watermelon garden will require turfing some grass and enriching the soil. AKA using ma muscles!
Oh and my friend who is here kindly doing some weed whacking for me confirmed that he too thinks the mystery bush in my back garden may be a blueberry!! No signs of fruit on it atm though
There are only so many ways I can spin this into something completely unsavory for public consumption, but now that I've put that all in everyone's minds, you're welcome
I'd trade you weather for a while. It's colder and dry af here. And score for the berries! Gimme.
I'm not sure what the conversion rate of flax based omegas is to bioavailable DHA/EPA but better than none at allskinnyjingbb wrote: »Just saw this thread when I read else where about break up big weight loss into stages. I was 190lbs 40 days ago and now lost 17lbs by keeping to 1000 to 1200 calorie per day. My goal weight is 140lbs, so I am thinking to take a break after 160lbs maintain it for a month or so, eating about 1500 calorie per day so my body won't go into starvation mod. For now, I do have cheat meal so basically I would have one 1500 day a week.
Does any one have similar experience and have any suggestions? Do you think a break is a good idea?
Oh boy. I'm glad you've found this thread, and while it's a trudge, there are some links and podcasts in the early pages that might help you better understand how the body reacts to large deficits for an extended period of time.
Firstly, starvation mode is a myth. Adaptive thermogenesis is the correct term that correlates with the body down regulating hormones and activity to match the amount of limited energy coming in. It will adapt in both directions and it will adapt at homeostasis.
Secondly, what you refer to as "cheat meals" is what we refer to as a structured refeed. It's a purposeful overfeeding period to bring hormonal response back up as high as it can get temporarily before it drops back down.
Thirdly, as you become leaner, your body will fight back harder to try and maintain its fat stores from depleting. Any weight lost will come from muscle if not eating enough protein and strength training to prevent muscle wasting, leading to the unwanted status of "skinny fat."
Like @Nony_Mouse stated, these numbers and weights are out of context to your question, but at the very least, even calculating your BMR at minimum 1730kcal is the rough estimate, and even if we were to take absolute sedentary status as a multiplier, 173 x 0.9 = 1557kcal/day is about the minimum your body could still be losing body fat, assuming protein was accounted for to reduce loss of lean mass.
Trying to slam calories as low as humanly possible is not sustainable long term, and thinking you can maintain at levels of BMR are only encouraging an eating disorder or an unhealthy association to scale weight and food intake.
Without knowing anything else about you, no one can really give any real advice, though if you've been on a continuous deficit this entire time, take a couple weeks from dieting and eat at your new calculated maintenance at your current weight. Take the time to figure out your protein needs (roughly ~1g per pound of your ideal/goal weight, but that need increases when in a deficit), then choose to focus on either higher carb or higher fat, or a balance of both (depends on your preference).
If you haven't taken a liking to any activity yet, then my recommendation will be to include some form of resistance training and progressively increase the challenge over time.
Thank you for all your reply, I am little less than 5'3 and 30 yr female, so 1200 is the suggestion I got for goal of 2 lbs a week. I do want to clarify that my daily calorie log on mfp is around 1000 to 1200 except for cheat day, but I mostly eyeball the portion size and I am Asian, so a lot of food don't have accurate nutrition info, I used mfp before and find I probably under estimate sometime. The fast weight loss is most water weight In the first week, after that is 1.5 to 2 lbs per week. I am doing lower carb, no sweets or bread or rice etc, but still eat lots of veg and some fruit, even occasional small piece of dark chocolate. I used online calculator saying based on my profile I need about 1600 per day to maintain. So that's why I was thinking 1500 as maintainance level. I just started do light cardio 20-30 min around 3 times a week but a bit worried about eating back exercise calorie.
Ah.. gotcha. Without getting to deep, there’s going to be disconnect between standard maintenance as calculated by MFP and keto/low carbing. I’ve mentioned this in one of the dozens of pages back, but LC (low carb) diets tend to have a lower set maintenance point than moderate or high carbers. Just because you have to take into account glycogen stores and the somewhat entropic nature of carbs, especially if you have metabolic syndrome (insulin resistance, diabetes, PCOS, etc). And the protein requirement for LC is *much higher* to prevent/slow down lean mass loss.
Yes, the initial weight loss will be water weight. Being 40+ days into low carbing you should be seeing what LC maintenance would be when you go on a diet break, assuming you kept carbs relatively low throughout that period. But your own specific maintenance is still going to be determined by your current body weight, and it will be within a range (within a few pounds of your lowest recorded weight), not a static number. Reintroducing higher carbs throws off that estimate a little bit.
In terms of activity, if you just started, it will likely be considered exercise until your body adapts to it. Then you’ll need to introduce progressive overload (gradually increasing intensity) for it to be counted as exercise. But keep the trend of tracking fat loss as seen by measurements, clothes, mirror, and scale.
Steady weight loss is fine, but you don’t want it too rapid for too long. So eat according to your goal and still follow the simplicity of finding out how many calories you can maximally eat that still allows for a downward trend.0 -
@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!1 -
@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!
Well based on her loss rate and intake, her maintenance is no less than 1750 to 2200 (1.5 to 2 lb per week at 1000 to 1200. Consider the limitations of logging, its actually probably higher.0 -
@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!
Well based on her loss rate and intake, her maintenance is no less than 1750 to 2200 (1.5 to 2 lb per week at 1000 to 1200. Consider the limitations of logging, its actually probably higher.
So what deficit would you suggest as appropriate for her @psuLemon ? <shovel pass>
1 -
@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!
Well based on her loss rate and intake, her maintenance is no less than 1750 to 2200 (1.5 to 2 lb per week at 1000 to 1200. Consider the limitations of logging, its actually probably higher.
Yep. Though It's also possible she is severely overestimating her intake and is actually eating even less than 1000-1200. Regardless, you need to eat more @skinnyjingbb1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Your call as to how much it might upset or not upset your mental hamsters ;-)
Short answer is that any spike you record will be slow to uptick and slow to downtick and will show you extra weight in your trending weight even after the water weight goes down.
My mental hamsters have given up on trending apps because of what they do to me with my weird pattern of weight fluctuations.
I really tried for a while, but I realized they were making me less likely to weigh in and making me more obsessed. Something had to give.
Yup. I stopped daily logging of weight in... September? After dealing with the first of the water weight spikes, and my trend weight was higher than it was this time last year, and I freaked the smurf out, and knew I couldn't log it anymore. Now it may still freak me out, but at least there's no written record of it.0 -
@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!
Well based on her loss rate and intake, her maintenance is no less than 1750 to 2200 (1.5 to 2 lb per week at 1000 to 1200. Consider the limitations of logging, its actually probably higher.
So what deficit would you suggest as appropriate for her @psuLemon ? <shovel pass>
Anywhere that would allow for her to lose between .5 to 1% bf per week.
But if we can stats, i can run calories and macros and more if they want.2 -
@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!
Well based on her loss rate and intake, her maintenance is no less than 1750 to 2200 (1.5 to 2 lb per week at 1000 to 1200. Consider the limitations of logging, its actually probably higher.
So what deficit would you suggest as appropriate for her @psuLemon ? <shovel pass>
Anywhere that would allow for her to lose between .5 to 1% bf per week.
But if we can stats, i can run calories and macros and more if they want.
What I have looking back is:
Female
Age: 30
Height: ~5'3"
SW: 190 lb
CW: ~173 lb
GW: 140lb
Weight loss to date ~17 lbs (in 40 days), low carbing.1 -
At sedentary Scooby gives me
BMR: 1556
TDEE: 1867
Cals to lose at 20% pw: 1494
And she needs to add her 3 days of exercise on top of that.1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!
Well based on her loss rate and intake, her maintenance is no less than 1750 to 2200 (1.5 to 2 lb per week at 1000 to 1200. Consider the limitations of logging, its actually probably higher.
So what deficit would you suggest as appropriate for her @psuLemon ? <shovel pass>
Anywhere that would allow for her to lose between .5 to 1% bf per week.
But if we can stats, i can run calories and macros and more if they want.
What I have looking back is:
Female
Age: 30
Height: ~5'3"
SW: 190 lb
CW: ~173 lb
GW: 140lb
Weight loss to date ~17 lbs (in 40 days), low carbing.
It would be nice to know what the last 2 weeks are to elimating glycogen depletion, sodium/water adjustment and food volume changes.
ETA: considering normal low carb loses, my original numbers seems accurate in terms of tdee.1 -
@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!
Well based on her loss rate and intake, her maintenance is no less than 1750 to 2200 (1.5 to 2 lb per week at 1000 to 1200. Consider the limitations of logging, its actually probably higher.
So what deficit would you suggest as appropriate for her @psuLemon ? <shovel pass>
Anywhere that would allow for her to lose between .5 to 1% bf per week.
But if we can stats, i can run calories and macros and more if they want.
I am obese based on Bmi over 30.since I am short, I am at 173 lbs now so I'll probably adjust my goal to 1 lbs per week. The thing is, because I am eating low carb high fat, I don't feel hungry or tired on 1000 to 1200 calorie. Sometimes I have packed snacks but don't feel like eating them. Also, I do think in general I probably under estimate as fat is so calorie dense, it is very easy to log less calorie than what I actually had.0 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!
Well based on her loss rate and intake, her maintenance is no less than 1750 to 2200 (1.5 to 2 lb per week at 1000 to 1200. Consider the limitations of logging, its actually probably higher.
So what deficit would you suggest as appropriate for her @psuLemon ? <shovel pass>
Anywhere that would allow for her to lose between .5 to 1% bf per week.
But if we can stats, i can run calories and macros and more if they want.
I am obese based on Bmi over 30.since I am short, I am at 173 lbs now so I'll probably adjust my goal to 1 lbs per week. The thing is, because I am eating low carb high fat, I don't feel hungry or tired on 1000 to 1200 calorie. Sometimes I have packed snacks but don't feel like eating them. Also, I do think in general I probably under estimate as fat is so calorie dense, it is very easy to log less calorie than what I actually had.
How much protein are you eating? And do you work out?0 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!
Well based on her loss rate and intake, her maintenance is no less than 1750 to 2200 (1.5 to 2 lb per week at 1000 to 1200. Consider the limitations of logging, its actually probably higher.
So what deficit would you suggest as appropriate for her @psuLemon ? <shovel pass>
Anywhere that would allow for her to lose between .5 to 1% bf per week.
But if we can stats, i can run calories and macros and more if they want.
I am obese based on Bmi over 30.since I am short, I am at 173 lbs now so I'll probably adjust my goal to 1 lbs per week. The thing is, because I am eating low carb high fat, I don't feel hungry or tired on 1000 to 1200 calorie. Sometimes I have packed snacks but don't feel like eating them. Also, I do think in general I probably under estimate as fat is so calorie dense, it is very easy to log less calorie than what I actually had.
Again, is there a reason you are doing low carb? It has no additional weight loss benefits (ie you won't lose faster, other than the initial water weight).
And I don't think you are under-logging given your rate of loss.1 -
I adjusted to 1 lbs a week now new goal is 1340 cal a week, as for exercise, my low intensity cardio usually be around 200 kcal, so I am hesitant to eat them back unless I feel hungry, but I'll probably eat more if I do more intense workout0
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skinnyjingbb wrote: »I adjusted to 1 lbs a week now new goal is 1340 cal a week, as for exercise, my low intensity cardio usually be around 200 kcal, so I am hesitant to eat them back unless I feel hungry, but I'll probably eat more if I do more intense workout
Outside of weight loss, what are your goals?0 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »I adjusted to 1 lbs a week now new goal is 1340 cal a week, as for exercise, my low intensity cardio usually be around 200 kcal, so I am hesitant to eat them back unless I feel hungry, but I'll probably eat more if I do more intense workout
Eat at least another 100 cals on exercise days. You need to fuel your body properly.1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »skinnyjingbb wrote: »@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!
Well based on her loss rate and intake, her maintenance is no less than 1750 to 2200 (1.5 to 2 lb per week at 1000 to 1200. Consider the limitations of logging, its actually probably higher.
So what deficit would you suggest as appropriate for her @psuLemon ? <shovel pass>
Anywhere that would allow for her to lose between .5 to 1% bf per week.
But if we can stats, i can run calories and macros and more if they want.
I am obese based on Bmi over 30.since I am short, I am at 173 lbs now so I'll probably adjust my goal to 1 lbs per week. The thing is, because I am eating low carb high fat, I don't feel hungry or tired on 1000 to 1200 calorie. Sometimes I have packed snacks but don't feel like eating them. Also, I do think in general I probably under estimate as fat is so calorie dense, it is very easy to log less calorie than what I actually had.
Again, is there a reason you are doing low carb? It has no additional weight loss benefits (ie you won't lose faster, other than the initial water weight).
And I don't think you are under-logging given your rate of loss.
I choose low carb because it's easier for me since I never ate lot of starchy food, so cut out rice and bread etc is no problem. I used to over indulge on sweets, but this temptation is easier to avoid compare to other things. Also, since I am not going as low as keto level, I do eat fruit and would have one bite of cake when desired( I cut the rest to bite side pieces and freeze them if no one to share). Also, in the past when I over ate one day during diet, I just can't get back on again because I would have strong cravings and the weight just come in back, so that's why I am trying this, so far so good, like during thanksgiving, I was over budget but had no problem getting back to my budget the next day. I am not trying to achieve ketosis, just cut out sugar and carb is the easiest way to restrict calorie for me1 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »skinnyjingbb wrote: »@skinnyjingbb are you well into the obese range with a TDEE around 4000 Cal a day?
That would be the level where a 1000 Cal a day deficit makes sense.
You have to have enough fat available to lose to support the deficit you're chosing.
If your actual TDEE is 1500 Cal (which I don't believe to be correct) and you're obese, then the maximum deficit you should be trying for is no more than 25%, i.e. ~375 Cal. If overweight it would be 20% and ~300 Cal!
Well based on her loss rate and intake, her maintenance is no less than 1750 to 2200 (1.5 to 2 lb per week at 1000 to 1200. Consider the limitations of logging, its actually probably higher.
So what deficit would you suggest as appropriate for her @psuLemon ? <shovel pass>
Anywhere that would allow for her to lose between .5 to 1% bf per week.
But if we can stats, i can run calories and macros and more if they want.
I am obese based on Bmi over 30.since I am short, I am at 173 lbs now so I'll probably adjust my goal to 1 lbs per week. The thing is, because I am eating low carb high fat, I don't feel hungry or tired on 1000 to 1200 calorie. Sometimes I have packed snacks but don't feel like eating them. Also, I do think in general I probably under estimate as fat is so calorie dense, it is very easy to log less calorie than what I actually had.
Again, is there a reason you are doing low carb? It has no additional weight loss benefits (ie you won't lose faster, other than the initial water weight).
And I don't think you are under-logging given your rate of loss.
I choose low carb because it's easier for me since I never ate lot of starchy food, so cut out rice and bread etc is no problem. I used to over indulge on sweets, but this temptation is easier to avoid compare to other things. Also, since I am not going as low as keto level, I do eat fruit and would have one bite of cake when desired( I cut the rest to bite side pieces and freeze them if no one to share). Also, in the past when I over ate one day during diet, I just can't get back on again because I would have strong cravings and the weight just come in back, so that's why I am trying this, so far so good, like during thanksgiving, I was over budget but had no problem getting back to my budget the next day. I am not trying to achieve ketosis, just cut out sugar and carb is the easiest way to restrict calorie for me
Okay, that's fine then. If this is something you think is sustainable for you and that you can adhere to long term, it's all good. I personally tend towards lower carb when at a deficit myself, because it leaves more room for protein and fats, and I can't eat half the carbs I like now anyway thanks to food intolerances!!
Do really try to hit that new calorie goal though. Losing too fast is not a good thing.4 -
Yes, I think I'll keep to about 1400 a day and eat back half of exercise calorie for a while and adjust if needed. I'll probably be back of I can manage to reach 160 at the end of the next year. Cause that's the point where I used to struggle to maintain and weight just bounced back.1
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skinnyjingbb wrote: »Yes, I think I'll keep to about 1400 a day and eat back half of exercise calorie for a while and adjust if needed. I'll probably be back of I can manage to reach 160 at the end of the next year. Cause that's the point where I used to struggle to maintain and weight just bounced back.
With 13 lbs to reach 160, you're not going to get there by the end of the year sorry. Four lbs would be perfect. But end of year is probably a good time for you to take a diet break. You may like to have that coincide with Christmas for convenience.4 -
sorry typo, I meant goal of 140lbs at the end of 2018.Nony_Mouse wrote: »skinnyjingbb wrote: »Yes, I think I'll keep to about 1400 a day and eat back half of exercise calorie for a while and adjust if needed. I'll probably be back of I can manage to reach 160 at the end of the next year. Cause that's the point where I used to struggle to maintain and weight just bounced back.
With 13 lbs to reach 160, you're not going to get there by the end of the year sorry. Four lbs would be perfect. But end of year is probably a good time for you to take a diet break. You may like to have that coincide with Christmas for convenience.2 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »
sorry typo, I meant goal of 140lbs at the end of 2018.Nony_Mouse wrote: »skinnyjingbb wrote: »Yes, I think I'll keep to about 1400 a day and eat back half of exercise calorie for a while and adjust if needed. I'll probably be back of I can manage to reach 160 at the end of the next year. Cause that's the point where I used to struggle to maintain and weight just bounced back.
With 13 lbs to reach 160, you're not going to get there by the end of the year sorry. Four lbs would be perfect. But end of year is probably a good time for you to take a diet break. You may like to have that coincide with Christmas for convenience.
Yep, you can definitely do that 3 -
I just want to commend @GottaBurnEmAll for the insight. It’s definitely a mental barrier to see and recognize what we may have done in the past vs what we choose to do now. But it’s exemplary of my suggestion to navigate through recognized triggers. We can either deny them for what they are (usually results in past behavior) or accept them and control what we do with them (new modified behavior).
It’s also a really good example of how to recognize signaling when your body is asking for its own refeed. Because we can reason with ourselves and white knuckle through the signal, it represses the initial urge only to come back later. Again, it’s all an undulating wavelength that we go through. There are moments of hedonic signaling for whatever reason (stress, reward, recovery, repletion, etc., expressed as ravenous hunger) and moments of homeostatic satiety, usually signified as days where we just aren’t generally hungry.
There’s no right way to eat or perfect meal timing to follow. We can entrain circadian feeding just like we can train ghrelin to stimulate hunger at specific times. We can also learn to restrict or overfeed beyond signaling. The body will play along within limits and it will respond accordingly. It almost becomes philosophical because the body is that adaptive to stimuli. Trying to quantify an astronomical amount of cellular processes to a definable number representing a snapshot in time is a ball ache to say the least.
@Maxxitt’s post probably the best representative of “it just works” and without delving too deep into the nitty gritty. And that’s perfect.
I think I said this before, but one of the reasons I am doing the maintenance eating, the surplus/bulk, the refeeds and the diet breaks this time around is because I know am in control and I feel it now. I am also in control when the triggers happen and I spiral. The choices I make in reaction to the triggers are what matters. I have only had one trigger and reaction since 5 or so years ago and I did not spiral this time because acid, burning throat, uncomfortable feelings, guilt, shame, secrecy, the usual ED stuff. I just brushed it off like I meant business (acknowledged the act) and it worked. I guess it boils down to practice.
It has taken me many, many years to get here. I am 43 now, was 16 when it all began. It is great to be supported by a few who have been through and some who are still struggling with those "demons". I do not binge anymore, that particular reaction has not occurred for more than 5 years. The re-feed I did recently was controlled, was quite fun and did not feel like a binge, that has a total overwhelming, rushed, horrible, heart-racing, blood pressure right up kind of feel. The feeling of being full can be a trigger, but it no longer is, the longer I watch my body doing these amazing things with what was my old enemy - food. I no longer restrict, except for controlled and careful deficits, I want to eat as much as I can and lose, not cut out the enjoyment and the fuel. Besides I want to retain the lean mass!
I did have the odd little voice in the back of my head want to restrict and do this whole plan a lot differently before I started it all, but I knew that would not work and I knew that my body would fight and my mind would end up wanting to spiral. I had doubts and I was very nervous. I kinda know the focus and obsession with the food planning and the workout planning are a displacement of sorts, but the spirally, out of control feel is not there, I do not want to go to those extremes anymore.
I have taken the slow approach too, as I knew that trying to do 500 cal steps upwards would definitely be a trigger (for longer than a 3 day re-feed at least) for me. So far, so good. I am still feeling a little nauseous, day 4 into surplus. I just need to time things better and relax more. Apologies for the non-scientific rambling. This whole thread and space here totally resonates.10 -
This content has been removed.
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nexangelus wrote: »I just want to commend @GottaBurnEmAll for the insight. It’s definitely a mental barrier to see and recognize what we may have done in the past vs what we choose to do now. But it’s exemplary of my suggestion to navigate through recognized triggers. We can either deny them for what they are (usually results in past behavior) or accept them and control what we do with them (new modified behavior).
It’s also a really good example of how to recognize signaling when your body is asking for its own refeed. Because we can reason with ourselves and white knuckle through the signal, it represses the initial urge only to come back later. Again, it’s all an undulating wavelength that we go through. There are moments of hedonic signaling for whatever reason (stress, reward, recovery, repletion, etc., expressed as ravenous hunger) and moments of homeostatic satiety, usually signified as days where we just aren’t generally hungry.
There’s no right way to eat or perfect meal timing to follow. We can entrain circadian feeding just like we can train ghrelin to stimulate hunger at specific times. We can also learn to restrict or overfeed beyond signaling. The body will play along within limits and it will respond accordingly. It almost becomes philosophical because the body is that adaptive to stimuli. Trying to quantify an astronomical amount of cellular processes to a definable number representing a snapshot in time is a ball ache to say the least.
@Maxxitt’s post probably the best representative of “it just works” and without delving too deep into the nitty gritty. And that’s perfect.
I think I said this before, but one of the reasons I am doing the maintenance eating, the surplus/bulk, the refeeds and the diet breaks this time around is because I know am in control and I feel it now. I am also in control when the triggers happen and I spiral. The choices I make in reaction to the triggers are what matters. I have only had one trigger and reaction since 5 or so years ago and I did not spiral this time because acid, burning throat, uncomfortable feelings, guilt, shame, secrecy, the usual ED stuff. I just brushed it off like I meant business (acknowledged the act) and it worked. I guess it boils down to practice.
It has taken me many, many years to get here. I am 43 now, was 16 when it all began. It is great to be supported by a few who have been through and some who are still struggling with those "demons". I do not binge anymore, that particular reaction has not occurred for more than 5 years. The re-feed I did recently was controlled, was quite fun and did not feel like a binge, that has a total overwhelming, rushed, horrible, heart-racing, blood pressure right up kind of feel. The feeling of being full can be a trigger, but it no longer is, the longer I watch my body doing these amazing things with what was my old enemy - food. I no longer restrict, except for controlled and careful deficits, I want to eat as much as I can and lose, not cut out the enjoyment and the fuel. Besides I want to retain the lean mass!
I did have the odd little voice in the back of my head want to restrict and do this whole plan a lot differently before I started it all, but I knew that would not work and I knew that my body would fight and my mind would end up wanting to spiral. I had doubts and I was very nervous. I kinda know the focus and obsession with the food planning and the workout planning are a displacement of sorts, but the spirally, out of control feel is not there, I do not want to go to those extremes anymore.
I have taken the slow approach too, as I knew that trying to do 500 cal steps upwards would definitely be a trigger (for longer than a 3 day re-feed at least) for me. So far, so good. I am still feeling a little nauseous, day 4 into surplus. I just need to time things better and relax more. Apologies for the non-scientific rambling. This whole thread and space here totally resonates.
It is heartening to read the experiences of people who have been there and knowing they can come through.
This isn't the first time in my life that I have found myself teetering on brink with disordered behavior. I did this before with alcohol when I was younger, and while it wasn't pretty, I did stop myself short and quit drinking before it became what I'd call being a true disorder.
I think the same thing happened here with eating behaviors, but I'm still battling those demons that wanted to push me over the edge.
I think it's good that we're adding all of this extra information to this thread, because I think some of the scale shenanigans that go on, especially for women, during weight loss, can be problematic psychologically. I tend to think it's helpful to have a frank discussion about the emotions that this whole process can trigger, the issues that some of us are facing, and how smarter strategies like knowing the science of what's going on in our bodies can be helpful in empowering us.10 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nexangelus wrote: »I just want to commend @GottaBurnEmAll for the insight. It’s definitely a mental barrier to see and recognize what we may have done in the past vs what we choose to do now. But it’s exemplary of my suggestion to navigate through recognized triggers. We can either deny them for what they are (usually results in past behavior) or accept them and control what we do with them (new modified behavior).
It’s also a really good example of how to recognize signaling when your body is asking for its own refeed. Because we can reason with ourselves and white knuckle through the signal, it represses the initial urge only to come back later. Again, it’s all an undulating wavelength that we go through. There are moments of hedonic signaling for whatever reason (stress, reward, recovery, repletion, etc., expressed as ravenous hunger) and moments of homeostatic satiety, usually signified as days where we just aren’t generally hungry.
There’s no right way to eat or perfect meal timing to follow. We can entrain circadian feeding just like we can train ghrelin to stimulate hunger at specific times. We can also learn to restrict or overfeed beyond signaling. The body will play along within limits and it will respond accordingly. It almost becomes philosophical because the body is that adaptive to stimuli. Trying to quantify an astronomical amount of cellular processes to a definable number representing a snapshot in time is a ball ache to say the least.
@Maxxitt’s post probably the best representative of “it just works” and without delving too deep into the nitty gritty. And that’s perfect.
I think I said this before, but one of the reasons I am doing the maintenance eating, the surplus/bulk, the refeeds and the diet breaks this time around is because I know am in control and I feel it now. I am also in control when the triggers happen and I spiral. The choices I make in reaction to the triggers are what matters. I have only had one trigger and reaction since 5 or so years ago and I did not spiral this time because acid, burning throat, uncomfortable feelings, guilt, shame, secrecy, the usual ED stuff. I just brushed it off like I meant business (acknowledged the act) and it worked. I guess it boils down to practice.
It has taken me many, many years to get here. I am 43 now, was 16 when it all began. It is great to be supported by a few who have been through and some who are still struggling with those "demons". I do not binge anymore, that particular reaction has not occurred for more than 5 years. The re-feed I did recently was controlled, was quite fun and did not feel like a binge, that has a total overwhelming, rushed, horrible, heart-racing, blood pressure right up kind of feel. The feeling of being full can be a trigger, but it no longer is, the longer I watch my body doing these amazing things with what was my old enemy - food. I no longer restrict, except for controlled and careful deficits, I want to eat as much as I can and lose, not cut out the enjoyment and the fuel. Besides I want to retain the lean mass!
I did have the odd little voice in the back of my head want to restrict and do this whole plan a lot differently before I started it all, but I knew that would not work and I knew that my body would fight and my mind would end up wanting to spiral. I had doubts and I was very nervous. I kinda know the focus and obsession with the food planning and the workout planning are a displacement of sorts, but the spirally, out of control feel is not there, I do not want to go to those extremes anymore.
I have taken the slow approach too, as I knew that trying to do 500 cal steps upwards would definitely be a trigger (for longer than a 3 day re-feed at least) for me. So far, so good. I am still feeling a little nauseous, day 4 into surplus. I just need to time things better and relax more. Apologies for the non-scientific rambling. This whole thread and space here totally resonates.
It is heartening to read the experiences of people who have been there and knowing they can come through.
This isn't the first time in my life that I have found myself teetering on brink with disordered behavior. I did this before with alcohol when I was younger, and while it wasn't pretty, I did stop myself short and quit drinking before it became what I'd call being a true disorder.
I think the same thing happened here with eating behaviors, but I'm still battling those demons that wanted to push me over the edge.
I think it's good that we're adding all of this extra information to this thread, because I think some of the scale shenanigans that go on, especially for women, during weight loss, can be problematic psychologically. I tend to think it's helpful to have a frank discussion about the emotions that this whole process can trigger, the issues that some of us are facing, and how smarter strategies like knowing the science of what's going on in our bodies can be helpful in empowering us.
Yep, another of my favourite things about this thread - open, candid, heartfelt discussion of the *kitten* things some of us have put our bodies through (not necessarily in the name of weight loss, but same net effect).
Interesting thought from me first thing in the morning (yes, my brain may be working!!) - I've mentioned previously that the way I feel on pred, the hyperness, forgetting to eat cos not really hungry, etc, is very similar to my high level anxiety that has previously led me down the rabbit hole of ED 2.0 - it's the *kitten* cortisol spike, isn't it?
This is also why I chose to track rather than trying to wing a surplus (which I only managed to do one day anyway) - because my little brain very possibly would have told me I'd managed that way before I had. Srsly, if not for those mega shakes, I'd have been screwed.6 -
I had some intestinal trouble yesterday and I'm pretty sure I emptied out my system (sorry tmi). The scale dropped to 186.0 lbs this morning from 188.6 yesterday. I expect a little rebound tomorrow as long as my body holds steady today. I was hoping for a fast whoosh, but I think some of that was just from crummy tummy.0
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Everyone is over hear sharing really heartfelt posts, and I'm like "I pooped a lot yesterday!"
Just gonna crawl back into my awkward introvert corner.9 -
@Maxxitt’s post probably the best representative of “it just works” and without delving too deep into the nitty gritty. And that’s perfect.
Oh, I have delved But once I commit to a process, I look at it as "data gathering" and give it 6-8 weeks to tell me the story. Over the decades this strategy has helped me quell anxiety and the resulting compulsion to try to micro-manage, which often causes more trouble than it fixes.
5
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