Of refeeds and diet breaks
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collectingblues wrote: »
Yeah fair enough
But the Price is Right strategy has worked for so many contestants on that show I'm sticking with i! 2 -
collectingblues wrote: »
Yeah fair enough But the Price is Right strategy has worked for so many contestants on that show I'm sticking with i!
Read above @HDBKLM
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Even though it's not what it's intended for, use the pred effects of hyperactivity, fluid [im]balance/redistribution, murderous intent, etc. to focus on any physical activity you're able to do... basically try to be as anabolic as possible to counter the catabolic effects. Manipulate cho/fat macros and/or calories if it helps mentally. I'm calling 4.2kg
To somewhat try and tie the past few pages together re: mentally accepting scale fluctuations, energy intake and expenditure, NEAT/SPA (spontaneous physical activity), refeeds, and mood/hormone rebalance, I'm just going to use this past week as an example.
Post-Thanksgiving weight was up a net 3.6lbs to 176.4 by Monday morning, felt energetically bountiful, had glycogen saturated/water fluff, and did my usual routine of psmf/keto/low carb, kcals determined by food availability and satiety from protein and nutrient density.
Tuesday morning I pissed out a pound and was 175.6. Energy/mood levels up, hardly any soreness, body comp back to whatever normal is, maintained usual routine activity and food wise.
Wednesday morning, no change in weight. Energy/mood felt like hump day, general meh. Slightly sore, nothing unusual. Body comp "felt" leaner, did a full body glycogen depletion routine. Also no post-workout hunger but got enough protein in.
Thursday morning, dropped to 174.4. Energy/mood complete crap with lethargy (SPA/NEAT minimal) barely did enough to work, and felt mentally sluggish. Soreness was building, recovery was trash, elbows feeling arthritic... just not good at all. Body comp looked flat, but hey abs came back. Did a light upper body routine because that's all I cared to do if passing out wasn't an option. Took cues from my body screaming at me, remembered that I even spoke about overtraining and under eating, and planned for protein overfeeding and overall mid-week refeed since I missed Tuesday's opportunity. Even ate more after closing whatever was logged. Not to be mistaken for a binge - this was true planned spike.
Today, up to 177. Energy/mood is much *kitten* better, similar to Tuesday where I'm mentally active, blinking doesn't feel like a chore, and I'm well into the work day already dealing with annoying clients without worry for disturbing their emotional safety
Recovery is back; I'm still sore but I don't feel abused anymore. Body comp: I look and feel thicker, obviously, but not fluffy since I didn't overfeed on carbs. Last day of PSMF/TKD for deadlifts tonight. Weekend is scheduled as my normal refeed.
The ultimate point I wanted to make is this: everyday is different and whether it's predictable/expected or not, you can still choose to do what seems appropriate for you. It doesn't have to fall in line with what you projected. I care less about scale weight/body comp if my mood/energy/recovery is skating on thin ice. I could have chosen a dozen different ways to structure my week or strategies, but I'm a bipolar, unemotional, logic-based, disordered entity and I can justify any reason to feed into, but because I can't bend reality yet I'm subject to keeping goals realistic when I recognize they're going off track.6 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »*Kitten* me 5.9 is a lot! Did you say you've already taken 3 of 5 total dosages? How much higher could you go in 2 more pills? I'm going to do Price is Right strategy and say $1. I mean 1 kilo.
Haha, well you've lost already then, unless I don't gain any more!
Up 1 kg so far, after three days of pred.
Ok well if we are playing by Price Is Right rules (I realise I'm literally the only person who has brought this reference up and am in that sense participating in a game with just one player) then we are not just talking 'closest figure' but 'closest without going OVER the actual figure, so *kitten* it I'm sticking with what I've already put out there.
ETA: But what's the prize?1 -
Even though it's not what it's intended for, use the pred effects of hyperactivity, fluid [im]balance/redistribution, murderous intent, etc. to focus on any physical activity you're able to do... basically try to be as anabolic as possible to counter the catabolic effects. Manipulate cho/fat macros and/or calories if it helps mentally. I'm calling 4.2kg
@anubis609 Please explain how I do this anabolic as possible thing, in detail, with small words (morning pred has not kicking in yet, and actually once it does I'll have the attention span of a squirrel!).
Re the murderous intent, I'm probs gonna try to stay out of threads other than this one 6 -
Lol anabolic as possible = lift challenging weight/heavy things for reps with the form of pure vanity, target major compound muscle groups, eat all the protein like you hunted it down in front of its family... I'm sure the look on frightened vegetable protein sources is priceless. I've tried to make it sound as primal as I could, but that's about the best analogy I could come up with 6
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Does anyone have 4.2? Because that's the answer to life, the universe and everything. So I'll go with that.6
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »@bmeadows380, is a Fitbit in the budget?
lol - unfortunately, no - this house remodel has me tapped pretty tightly until I can sell my other house. But I might have some extra money come spring!
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Lol anabolic as possible = lift challenging weight/heavy things for reps with the form of pure vanity, target major compound muscle groups, eat all the protein like you hunted it down in front of its family... I'm sure the look on frightened vegetable protein sources is priceless. I've tried to make it sound as primal as I could, but that's about the best analogy I could come up with
I feel like I need to try the last one when I dig out the remaining potatoes from the garden this weekend.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Does anyone have 4.2? Because that's the answer to life, the universe and everything. So I'll go with that.
Ha, I called it up top already. I also don't know why I went with that figure, but I did ☜(˚▽˚)☞4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »@bmeadows380, is a Fitbit Garmin in the budget?
FIFY2 -
collectingblues wrote: »Lol anabolic as possible = lift challenging weight/heavy things for reps with the form of pure vanity, target major compound muscle groups, eat all the protein like you hunted it down in front of its family... I'm sure the look on frightened vegetable protein sources is priceless. I've tried to make it sound as primal as I could, but that's about the best analogy I could come up with
I feel like I need to try the last one when I dig out the remaining potatoes from the garden this weekend.
Show them what happens when they grow0 -
collectingblues wrote: »Lol anabolic as possible = lift challenging weight/heavy things for reps with the form of pure vanity, target major compound muscle groups, eat all the protein like you hunted it down in front of its family... I'm sure the look on frightened vegetable protein sources is priceless. I've tried to make it sound as primal as I could, but that's about the best analogy I could come up with
I feel like I need to try the last one when I dig out the remaining potatoes from the garden this weekend.
Show them what happens when they grow
Dang right. They grow, they get hauled out of the ground, boiled, and frozen. (Well, the sweets. I have no patience for curing them. The yukon golds get dumped into the pantry.)
That's one heck of a way to go.1 -
I always hunt protein, so not an issue!! Muscles feel fine in terms of recovery from yesterday (as in, not so much as a peep out of them), so I shall train again today, and maybe get sneaky stuff in too. And yoga. Not too much cardio (which is only walking anyway)?
I think somewhere in the 4kg range is a good prediction. Holy *kitten*, that's gonna look hilarious. I'm totally doing anti-progress pics. My thighs are already a joke. Can still see my obliques though (I have killer obliques).
I kind of want pizza for dinner tonight (much as I don't want to turn the oven on), but I have to admit I'm a little scared of the tomato paste/pizza sauce. Thus far I've been fine with cooked tomato, but tolerance level drops with flares, so...3 -
A sauceless all cheese and meat pizza sounds delicious right about now. Yes, I know it's just an open face flatbread melt at that point, but I'm not hard up for lycopene at this time
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@Nony_Mouse, @anubis609, thank you for your kind words. They help tremendously. I've actually booked a session with a therapist just last week after my really bad episode. It took me seeing what others were going through in this thread and other threads here that prompted me to do it, something I would never have done previously. Fingers crossed!A small update from me - so much so for the accuracy of my numbers.
Quite an embarrassing confession to make but in the midst of all the conversions from kg to pounds (which I do for this forum and a couple of others), I had my calculations set up as 3500 cals = 1kg, not 1 pound. So my rate of loss the past 4 months was double what it should have been if the 3500 cals = 1 pound rule was taken.
For the science-y people in or reading this thread who may be interested, here are my numbers. And for those who may be scared to up their calories, so many great testimonials already from others who have posted but here's mine. While my monthly numbers do not match projected scale drops each month likely due to water weight, TOM, binging vs whoosh effect etc etc but taken overall, the numbers match (apart from the fact that I need to look at the CO part carefully now since my garmin may not be as accurate as I thought).
(ETA: October was the start of the Refeed approach)
I'm officially on a diet break now (aka maintenance) and will be on this till probably around March next year.
So you ate almost 1000 calories more and still lost weight.
Dont let the main forums now, they will freak the hell out.
Sorry if that has been pointed out, 4 pages behind lol IKR!
It was this thread that helped me decide to stick to upping cals and going maintenance (refeed) with a higher deficit. I think it was the whoosh effect which I mentioned right at the beginning (first few pages) of this thread AND not to mention, my training got sooo much better too. That was when I thought Holy hell, something's working here!
Next mission - finding how high I can go with calories!!
I actually almost want to make this a separate thread. Because the whole concept of eat more to lose more *kitten* blows peoples minds. I know I did it (went from 1800 to 2300 calories). Too many people just think in linear fashion that they can't fathom increase in EE driven by increase in calories (i.e., spontaneous changes in NEAT or increase in TEA).
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I have found that there is kinda of a calorie sweet spot for me. If I eat 1300/1400 I can not sustain that. I am STARVING. I can eat 1500 for a short period of time. After about 2 weeks I am cranky and my energy is very low. I start to conserve. I am move around a lot less, I don't fidget. If I eat around 1650 I seem to lose about the same amount as I would @ 1500. My energy levels are much better and I move around more.6 -
@Nony_Mouse, @anubis609, thank you for your kind words. They help tremendously. I've actually booked a session with a therapist just last week after my really bad episode. It took me seeing what others were going through in this thread and other threads here that prompted me to do it, something I would never have done previously. Fingers crossed!A small update from me - so much so for the accuracy of my numbers.
Quite an embarrassing confession to make but in the midst of all the conversions from kg to pounds (which I do for this forum and a couple of others), I had my calculations set up as 3500 cals = 1kg, not 1 pound. So my rate of loss the past 4 months was double what it should have been if the 3500 cals = 1 pound rule was taken.
For the science-y people in or reading this thread who may be interested, here are my numbers. And for those who may be scared to up their calories, so many great testimonials already from others who have posted but here's mine. While my monthly numbers do not match projected scale drops each month likely due to water weight, TOM, binging vs whoosh effect etc etc but taken overall, the numbers match (apart from the fact that I need to look at the CO part carefully now since my garmin may not be as accurate as I thought).
(ETA: October was the start of the Refeed approach)
I'm officially on a diet break now (aka maintenance) and will be on this till probably around March next year.
So you ate almost 1000 calories more and still lost weight.
Dont let the main forums now, they will freak the hell out.
Sorry if that has been pointed out, 4 pages behind lol IKR!
It was this thread that helped me decide to stick to upping cals and going maintenance (refeed) with a higher deficit. I think it was the whoosh effect which I mentioned right at the beginning (first few pages) of this thread AND not to mention, my training got sooo much better too. That was when I thought Holy hell, something's working here!
Next mission - finding how high I can go with calories!!
I actually almost want to make this a separate thread. Because the whole concept of eat more to lose more *kitten* blows peoples minds. I know I did it (went from 1800 to 2300 calories). Too many people just think in linear fashion that they can't fathom increase in EE driven by increase in calories (i.e., spontaneous changes in NEAT or increase in TEA).
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I have found that there is kinda of a calorie sweet spot for me. If I eat 1300/1400 I can not sustain that. I am STARVING. I can eat 1500 for a short period of time. After about 2 weeks I am cranky and my energy is very low. I start to conserve. I am move around a lot less, I don't fidget. If I eat around 1650 I seem to lose about the same amount as I would @ 1500. My energy levels are much better and I move around more.
Exactly. Not to mention TEF also plays a part in increased calorie intake, protein having the greatest effect, followed by carbs; fat is almost negligible but contributes to circulating FFAs and storage if consumed along with overfeeding. Interestingly, you basically become a human oven when you overfeed, especially protein. So even at higher calculated calorie intake, the body ticks up in metabolic processes to digest it, resulting in increased NEAT for most people.
Just to reiterate, it's important to eat as much as you can that allows for you to reach goals without negative effects, whether that's a deficit, maintenance, or surplus. Basically you want the maximum effective amount of food to produce the results you're seeking.6 -
@Nony_Mouse, @anubis609, thank you for your kind words. They help tremendously. I've actually booked a session with a therapist just last week after my really bad episode. It took me seeing what others were going through in this thread and other threads here that prompted me to do it, something I would never have done previously. Fingers crossed!A small update from me - so much so for the accuracy of my numbers.
Quite an embarrassing confession to make but in the midst of all the conversions from kg to pounds (which I do for this forum and a couple of others), I had my calculations set up as 3500 cals = 1kg, not 1 pound. So my rate of loss the past 4 months was double what it should have been if the 3500 cals = 1 pound rule was taken.
For the science-y people in or reading this thread who may be interested, here are my numbers. And for those who may be scared to up their calories, so many great testimonials already from others who have posted but here's mine. While my monthly numbers do not match projected scale drops each month likely due to water weight, TOM, binging vs whoosh effect etc etc but taken overall, the numbers match (apart from the fact that I need to look at the CO part carefully now since my garmin may not be as accurate as I thought).
(ETA: October was the start of the Refeed approach)
I'm officially on a diet break now (aka maintenance) and will be on this till probably around March next year.
So you ate almost 1000 calories more and still lost weight.
Dont let the main forums now, they will freak the hell out.
Sorry if that has been pointed out, 4 pages behind lol IKR!
It was this thread that helped me decide to stick to upping cals and going maintenance (refeed) with a higher deficit. I think it was the whoosh effect which I mentioned right at the beginning (first few pages) of this thread AND not to mention, my training got sooo much better too. That was when I thought Holy hell, something's working here!
Next mission - finding how high I can go with calories!!
I actually almost want to make this a separate thread. Because the whole concept of eat more to lose more *kitten* blows peoples minds. I know I did it (went from 1800 to 2300 calories). Too many people just think in linear fashion that they can't fathom increase in EE driven by increase in calories (i.e., spontaneous changes in NEAT or increase in TEA).
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I have found that there is kinda of a calorie sweet spot for me. If I eat 1300/1400 I can not sustain that. I am STARVING. I can eat 1500 for a short period of time. After about 2 weeks I am cranky and my energy is very low. I start to conserve. I am move around a lot less, I don't fidget. If I eat around 1650 I seem to lose about the same amount as I would @ 1500. My energy levels are much better and I move around more.
Exactly. Not to mention TEF also plays a part in increased calorie intake, protein having the greatest effect, followed by carbs; fat is almost negligible but contributes to circulating FFAs and storage if consumed along with overfeeding. Interestingly, you basically become a human oven when you overfeed, especially protein. So even at higher calculated calorie intake, the body ticks up in metabolic processes to digest it, resulting in increased NEAT for most people.
And see, this is a catch 22 for me, because the last thing I want is to be hotter!!
Breakfast finally eaten at almost midday (I did have some yoghurt first thing to take my pred), 60g of protein down the hatch so far.
Is sesame an EFA? My pizza bases are sprouted seed, not sure if there's flax in there as well. Meh, I'll just pour some flax oil on that sucker!!
I got blueberries as well as strawberries at market this morning @anubis609 . And watermelon plants!! Must get some strawberry plants to put in too. This all involves me creating a garden bed somewhere, which is going to have to be an evening activity of course ![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
I have a wee bed at the edge of the deck that some strawberries can go in, just have to weed it. Watermelon garden will require turfing some grass and enriching the soil. AKA using ma muscles!
Oh and my friend who is here kindly doing some weed whacking for me confirmed that he too thinks the mystery bush in my back garden may be a blueberry!! No signs of fruit on it atm though
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Just saw this thread when I read else where about break up big weight loss into stages. I was 190lbs 40 days ago and now lost 17lbs by keeping to 1000 to 1200 calorie per day. My goal weight is 140lbs, so I am thinking to take a break after 160lbs maintain it for a month or so, eating about 1500 calorie per day so my body won't go into starvation mod. For now, I do have cheat meal so basically I would have one 1500 day a week.
Does any one have similar experience and have any suggestions? Do you think a break is a good idea?
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skinnyjingbb wrote: »Just saw this thread when I read else where about break up big weight loss into stages. I was 190lbs 40 days ago and now lost 17lbs by keeping to 1000 to 1200 calorie per day. My goal weight is 140lbs, so I am thinking to take a break after 160lbs maintain it for a month or so, eating about 1500 calorie per day so my body won't go into starvation mod. For now, I do have cheat meal so basically I would have one 1500 day a week.
Does any one have similar experience and have any suggestions? Do you think a break is a good idea?
1) What are your stats (gender, age, height, weight, activity level) that you are eating so low? 1200 (before exercise) should be absolute minimum, and then only if you are short, old, and/or very sedentary. AKA, we're probably going to tell you you need to eat more. You weight loss thus far supports that. Seventeen lbs in less than 6 weeks, with less than 100 lb to lose, is too damn fast. Please reset your weekly weight loss goal to 1 lb per week.
2) It is highly unlikely that 1500 is maintenance calories for you, thus it would not be a diet break. And actually probably more the level you should be eating at for weight loss (without knowing your stats).
3) Starvation mode, in the sense I think you are using it, is not a thing. Adaptive thermogenesis is a thing, and that is indeed the reason to take diet breaks, to help mitigate against that, bring hormone levels back in line etc.
4) I would do a diet break now, proper, full, controlled, 10-14 days, to mitigate your current aggressive deficit. Then restart with a goal to lose 1 lb per week.
5) Please don't use the term 'cheat meal' It is negative and horrible, and suggests you are doing something you shouldn't.
Link to article on full diet break, please read, and re-read: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/
6) Apologies if this sounds blunt and snippy, not my usual cheery self at the mo'.
We are here to help if you are willing to listen and learn 9
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