Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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Good news on the boiler front. The cost of a high-efficiency unit was under my ceiling point, and they threw in a bunch of other stuff that needed to be fixed -- largely, other pieces from the 60s and 80s that were getting close to end of life. It's still not *cheap* but I feel good about the decision.8
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Research, research, research. This list seems to be science-based: http://www.histamineintolerance.org.uk/about/the-food-diary/the-food-list/. I can live with this (except chocolate). Also conveniently includes a list of additives to avoid. Interestingly, on the benzoate thing, my usual sensitive skin zinc sunblock has a benzoate preservative. I picked up some Invisible Zinc yesterday, which has a non-benzoate preservative. Currently trialling it on my face. Seems okay (as in, doesn't feel like I just poured acid on my skin), so I may be back in business with sunblock. Huzzah!!5
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Or I can send you my psychotic immune system! It's free to a good home and good for a 4 lb weight loss in less than 6 weeks eating at TDEE (or more accurately, what would normally be TDEE)
How nice of you, but I must respectfully decline your offer.
So I'm setting parameters for my diet break. Have been on calorie restriction since March 6th. 1400 cal to start - reset to 1550 cal a couple of months ago. Low carb - 40g or less net carbs most days.
Ran some calculators for maintenance calories. Ankerl gave me 1907 - ruled.me 1944 - MFP 2150 - IIFYM 2507.
I'm thinking of aiming for 1950-2000 cal per day. 200 g carbs - 115 g protein - 72 g fat. Thoughts?
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Second day of higher calorie eating has been harder, it's 8.20pm and I should eat 650 cals more. Have to find some energy dense foods I guess coz I'm not hungry eating these filling, healthy foods that I have been on whilst dieting hard.
Anyway, here's a question:
with 73lb to target weight, how much more should I drop using deficit calories before switching to recomposition?
I was thinking of dropping another 40 to 45lbs then switching to recomp3 -
alteredstates175 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Or I can send you my psychotic immune system! It's free to a good home and good for a 4 lb weight loss in less than 6 weeks eating at TDEE (or more accurately, what would normally be TDEE)
How nice of you, but I must respectfully decline your offer.
So I'm setting parameters for my diet break. Have been on calorie restriction since March 6th. 1400 cal to start - reset to 1550 cal a couple of months ago. Low carb - 40g or less net carbs most days.
Ran some calculators for maintenance calories. Ankerl gave me 1907 - ruled.me 1944 - MFP 2150 - IIFYM 2507.
I'm thinking of aiming for 1950-2000 cal per day. 200 g carbs - 115 g protein - 72 g fat. Thoughts?
If you have your own data use that instead of a calculator. Take the last eight weeks of loss, work out what that means in calories and add to what you have been eating on average. Real world trumps guesstimating calculators.
Macro splits are personal. But as you've been low carb when you return to "normal" carb you are going to see a scale spike as glycogen replenishes.4 -
alteredstates175 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Or I can send you my psychotic immune system! It's free to a good home and good for a 4 lb weight loss in less than 6 weeks eating at TDEE (or more accurately, what would normally be TDEE)
How nice of you, but I must respectfully decline your offer.
So I'm setting parameters for my diet break. Have been on calorie restriction since March 6th. 1400 cal to start - reset to 1550 cal a couple of months ago. Low carb - 40g or less net carbs most days.
Ran some calculators for maintenance calories. Ankerl gave me 1907 - ruled.me 1944 - MFP 2150 - IIFYM 2507.
I'm thinking of aiming for 1950-2000 cal per day. 200 g carbs - 115 g protein - 72 g fat. Thoughts?
What does your own data say? IE when you compare your deficit over the last, say, six weeks to your actual weight loss?
With diet break you are better to overshoot than undershoot. So if you have been averaging a lb a week at 1550, I'd up to 2050. Protein I'm in the camp of shooting for 0.8-1g per lb of 'ideal' weight, whatever that is for you. Carbs you want to have a minimum of 100-150g a day, but can go higher if you wish.1 -
VintageFeline wrote: »If you have your own data use that instead of a calculator. Take the last eight weeks of loss, work out what that means in calories and add to what you have been eating on average. Real world trumps guesstimating calculators.
Macro splits are personal. But as you've been low carb when you return to "normal" carb you are going to see a scale spike as glycogen replenishes.
Got it. Makes sense. The Libra app has me at a 400 calorie per day deficit. So I will start with adding that back.
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Rickster1967 wrote: »Second day of higher calorie eating has been harder, it's 8.20pm and I should eat 650 cals more. Have to find some energy dense foods I guess coz I'm not hungry eating these filling, healthy foods that I have been on whilst dieting hard.
Anyway, here's a question:
with 73lb to target weight, how much more should I drop using deficit calories before switching to recomposition?
I was thinking of dropping another 40 to 45lbs then switching to recomp
It's best to go on BF% - not super accurate, but good estimate.
12-15% higher end to start.
Otherwise you get some negatives regarding insulin and uptake that just doesn't benefit the attempted muscle building.1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »What does your own data say? IE when you compare your deficit over the last, say, six weeks to your actual weight loss?
With diet break you are better to overshoot than undershoot. So if you have been averaging a lb a week at 1550, I'd up to 2050. Protein I'm in the camp of shooting for 0.8-1g per lb of 'ideal' weight, whatever that is for you. Carbs you want to have a minimum of 100-150g a day, but can go higher if you wish.
Got it. My loss average is 1.1 pounds per week, so will add back 400-500 cals per day. Just adding some ale back in the mix will take care of that! Cheers!
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So how often should one diet break approximately? I’ve read a couple times that leaner people should more often but I guess I’m not sure how often is often.0
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Hi @WhereIsPJSoles
This is a question that will hopefully be answered more definitively in Lyle McDonald's must almost be ready book on us wimmin folks. Definitely more often the leaner you are. I'd say for a woman within the healthy weight range you're looking at at least every 6-8 weeks. I went six weeks between my two (though my second one was a bust because my immune system decided to go even more psycho and I actually lost weight), that was sitting at around 25-27% body fat. I was still feeling fine physically at the 6 week mark, though I was doing weekend refeeds as well which helped immensely. Psychologically I was ready, though that may have just been because I'd already planned to do it (and good thing too, as it turned out!). 0 -
My doctor is so awesome. She's totally happy for me to try the low histamine thing because she knows I've done my homework on it. She also commented that she wouldn't want to see me doing anything really restrictive because of my dwindling size, I assured her I am trying to eat all the foods and will be upping my cals in an attempt to stabilise. If this doesn't work, we're going to look at allergy injections and she will do some research for me into which tests and shots are the best for me to get, because they're bloody expensive.
She also checked my bite, agreed that I seem to have gotten it under control with the liquid iodine, but gave me a script for antibiotics anyway, because she said with my skin it's almost inevitable that sooner or later a scrape, cut or bite is going to get infected, so I may as well have them on hand. She said 'you're smart enough to know if you need to take them'.
And OMG, holiday traffic! Popped up to the next town to visit the lingerie shop cos Boxing Day sale already, and they had a few new things in (I needed that red bra guys, old one doesn't fit), and have lunch with my friend who works there (I made a new friend! I don't do that very often IRL). What's normally about a 10-15 minute drive took me about 45 mins. Coming home was fine, because no one comes south for the holidays, though I did nix going to the next town down from me to get my replacement Fitbit band. It can wait.
Oh yeah, and I had an iced chocolate with whipped cream for lunch
Guess I should look up the cals in one of those. 4 -
I ran 10K on the treadmill yesterday!! The most I've ever run (treadmill or outside) is 5.5 miles! It was one of those perfect days where everything aligns - I had the time, the energy and the mental stamina to just keep on running to my playlist. I'm going to start the 5K to 10K app in Jan because it uses intervals for the training, and I plan to do it outside, so I'll have to work up to that distance in the real world, but wow!
I have a lot more energy since I've started eating at maintenance. I've been going up and down the same 2 lbs for several weeks now, so I think I'm doing it right. This week I'm starting to up my resistance training to 3 days a week from 2 to start working on the recomp portion of the program. I'm actually getting excited about this, I have new goals instead of the grind of moving the goal weight every time I get there so keep on slogging along at a never-ending deficit that gets harder and harder the less I weigh.
Nony - red bras should be as much a staple in a woman's wardrobe as a little black dress
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I ran 10K on the treadmill yesterday!! The most I've ever run (treadmill or outside) is 5.5 miles! It was one of those perfect days where everything aligns - I had the time, the energy and the mental stamina to just keep on running to my playlist. I'm going to start the 5K to 10K app in Jan because it uses intervals for the training, and I plan to do it outside, so I'll have to work up to that distance in the real world, but wow!
I have a lot more energy since I've started eating at maintenance. I've been going up and down the same 2 lbs for several weeks now, so I think I'm doing it right. This week I'm starting to up my resistance training to 3 days a week from 2 to start working on the recomp portion of the program. I'm actually getting excited about this, I have new goals instead of the grind of moving the goal weight every time I get there so keep on slogging along at a never-ending deficit that gets harder and harder the less I weigh.
Nony - red bras should be as much a staple in a woman's wardrobe as a little black dress
Yay running!!!
I don't think I have the energy to try running again tonight, but I am going to go for a walk. Hopefully a couple of days of higher cals will give me some more oomph. How the hell does anyone do a 500 deficit at my size and still be able to function?? Own fault, I should have kept the higher cals I was doing last week going.0 -
Another 1.5 pounds off this morning!9
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I've read through this entire thread and I'm doing my best to absorb all the incredible info provided by you guys. Taking on board what you've said, I'm going to head into a diet break. I'm down from 233 to 165 with only a short stop in the middle, so it makes sense. I'd like some help to work out what my maintenance cals should be, if you wouldn't mind? I'm 5ft 1", 56 years-old and mostly sedentary. I've been losing about .5lb a week on 1200 cals, more when I've dropped the cals further (which I don't do often). With those stats, what sort of range should I be aiming for to maintain over the Christmas/New Year period? I'm hopeful for this, as I've certainly noticed a correlation between a short high-carb refeed weekend and fast weightloss thereafter. Nice that this thread explains that it's not just me imagining it. Thanks so much for your fantastic advice - it's a real game changer for me.1
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I've read through this entire thread and I'm doing my best to absorb all the incredible info provided by you guys. Taking on board what you've said, I'm going to head into a diet break. I'm down from 233 to 165 with only a short stop in the middle, so it makes sense. I'd like some help to work out what my maintenance cals should be, if you wouldn't mind? I'm 5ft 1", 56 years-old and mostly sedentary. I've been losing about .5lb a week on 1200 cals, more when I've dropped the cals further (which I don't do often). With those stats, what sort of range should I be aiming for to maintain over the Christmas/New Year period? I'm hopeful for this, as I've certainly noticed a correlation between a short high-carb refeed weekend and fast weightloss thereafter. Nice that this thread explains that it's not just me imagining it. Thanks so much for your fantastic advice - it's a real game changer for me.
Well done on your loss, and for taking it steady! 0.5lb loss per week would suggest you're having a deficit of about 250 cals a day (please someone correct me if I'm wrong).4 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Well done on your loss, and for taking it steady! 0.5lb loss per week would suggest you're having a deficit of about 250 cals a day (please someone correct me if I'm wrong).
Thank you. Yes, I think that's right. I think my maintenance will be 1675 (or around there - I know it's not a perfect science), but would like to be sure.
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livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Well done on your loss, and for taking it steady! 0.5lb loss per week would suggest you're having a deficit of about 250 cals a day (please someone correct me if I'm wrong).
Thank you. Yes, I think that's right. I think my maintenance will be 1675 (or around there - I know it's not a perfect science), but would like to be sure.
Where did you get 1675 from?
1200 + 250 = 1450...1 -
I ran 10K on the treadmill yesterday!! The most I've ever run (treadmill or outside) is 5.5 miles! It was one of those perfect days where everything aligns - I had the time, the energy and the mental stamina to just keep on running to my playlist. I'm going to start the 5K to 10K app in Jan because it uses intervals for the training, and I plan to do it outside, so I'll have to work up to that distance in the real world, but wow!
I have a lot more energy since I've started eating at maintenance. I've been going up and down the same 2 lbs for several weeks now, so I think I'm doing it right. This week I'm starting to up my resistance training to 3 days a week from 2 to start working on the recomp portion of the program. I'm actually getting excited about this, I have new goals instead of the grind of moving the goal weight every time I get there so keep on slogging along at a never-ending deficit that gets harder and harder the less I weigh.
Nony - red bras should be as much a staple in a woman's wardrobe as a little black dress
Woohooo!!!! 10K is a goal of mine... someday.
My running experiment was a bust. I will confess here that it left me with the hungries and led to a couple of days of binging. Not too pleased with that after all the progress I've made on that front. I was also flat out exhausted in the aftermath.
Oh well, lesson learned. Running will be reserved for maintenance. I will just build my body back up to it slowly, because my joints weren't happy in the aftermath either.
I'm currently on day 2 of a migraine and muddling through getting last minute shopping done with it. What a joy.
I have no appetite at all for anything except yogurt. 3 -
collectingblues wrote: »Another 1.5 pounds off this morning!
Awesome!0 -
I've read through this entire thread and I'm doing my best to absorb all the incredible info provided by you guys. Taking on board what you've said, I'm going to head into a diet break. I'm down from 233 to 165 with only a short stop in the middle, so it makes sense. I'd like some help to work out what my maintenance cals should be, if you wouldn't mind? I'm 5ft 1", 56 years-old and mostly sedentary. I've been losing about .5lb a week on 1200 cals, more when I've dropped the cals further (which I don't do often). With those stats, what sort of range should I be aiming for to maintain over the Christmas/New Year period? I'm hopeful for this, as I've certainly noticed a correlation between a short high-carb refeed weekend and fast weightloss thereafter. Nice that this thread explains that it's not just me imagining it. Thanks so much for your fantastic advice - it's a real game changer for me.
Ah, we're twinsies almost. I'm 55 and your height.
A half pound a week loss would indicate that your maintenance is somewhere in the 1450-1500 calorie range, though I think it might be higher and you're likely losing a bit more slowly due to adaptations to dieting. (I'm saying this based on what I know my sedentary maintenance is).
When you lose more quickly after a carb refeed weekend, how much do you lose?1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've read through this entire thread and I'm doing my best to absorb all the incredible info provided by you guys. Taking on board what you've said, I'm going to head into a diet break. I'm down from 233 to 165 with only a short stop in the middle, so it makes sense. I'd like some help to work out what my maintenance cals should be, if you wouldn't mind? I'm 5ft 1", 56 years-old and mostly sedentary. I've been losing about .5lb a week on 1200 cals, more when I've dropped the cals further (which I don't do often). With those stats, what sort of range should I be aiming for to maintain over the Christmas/New Year period? I'm hopeful for this, as I've certainly noticed a correlation between a short high-carb refeed weekend and fast weightloss thereafter. Nice that this thread explains that it's not just me imagining it. Thanks so much for your fantastic advice - it's a real game changer for me.
Ah, we're twinsies almost. I'm 55 and your height.
A half pound a week loss would indicate that your maintenance is somewhere in the 1450-1500 calorie range, though I think it might be higher and you're likely losing a bit more slowly due to adaptations to dieting. (I'm saying this based on what I know my sedentary maintenance is).
When you lose more quickly after a carb refeed weekend, how much do you lose?
Could be some logging inaccuracies too as that is a slow rate of loss for size/age/calorie intake.1 -
VintageFeline wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've read through this entire thread and I'm doing my best to absorb all the incredible info provided by you guys. Taking on board what you've said, I'm going to head into a diet break. I'm down from 233 to 165 with only a short stop in the middle, so it makes sense. I'd like some help to work out what my maintenance cals should be, if you wouldn't mind? I'm 5ft 1", 56 years-old and mostly sedentary. I've been losing about .5lb a week on 1200 cals, more when I've dropped the cals further (which I don't do often). With those stats, what sort of range should I be aiming for to maintain over the Christmas/New Year period? I'm hopeful for this, as I've certainly noticed a correlation between a short high-carb refeed weekend and fast weightloss thereafter. Nice that this thread explains that it's not just me imagining it. Thanks so much for your fantastic advice - it's a real game changer for me.
Ah, we're twinsies almost. I'm 55 and your height.
A half pound a week loss would indicate that your maintenance is somewhere in the 1450-1500 calorie range, though I think it might be higher and you're likely losing a bit more slowly due to adaptations to dieting. (I'm saying this based on what I know my sedentary maintenance is).
When you lose more quickly after a carb refeed weekend, how much do you lose?
Could be some logging inaccuracies too as that is a slow rate of loss for size/age/calorie intake.
Agreed.0 -
I am now into diet break - I'm trying for maintenance which my TDEE spreadsheet on actual loss vs intake suggests is about 1900 calories right now. My break meal has been planned as a burger for ages - typing it into myFitnessPal has made me realise it's not enough. So the left over red from jugging the Christmas Eve hare it is! 5
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Ditto to inaccuracy - likely was eating more, meaning maintenance would be more by same unknown amount.
But with so little an increase, accuracy at higher eating level is likely to be the same.
So indeed go up to the 1450 mentioned, even if in reality that is actually a higher eaten number.
But, as also mentioned, that rate of loss was also likely to already having an adapted lower TDEE, so 1450 won't be potential TDEE, but still suppressed TDEE.
I'd suggest go up to the 1450 first for a week, get used to it.
2nd week, increase by 100 extra each day - 1550.
At this point, go for another 100 extra daily for a 3rd week - 1650.
You won't suffer from a longer break after so long in a diet.
If you can get energy levels back and really have potential TDEE up around 1650 - then going forward the 250 deficit will leave you 1400 for eating goal.
Because if truly sedentary, less than 4000 steps daily and no workouts - I'm seeing 1595 estimated TDEE.
And then factor in regular breaks, and/or the 2 day refeed - to keep the TDEE up at potential rather than suppressed level.5 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Could be some logging inaccuracies too as that is a slow rate of loss for size/age/calorie intake.
I'm ridiculously pedantic when it comes to logging, even pre-packaged 'calorie-counted' foods I weigh as they are often incorrect. I check and re-check everything, always.
It may be slower because of the oestrogen-stripping hormone drugs I'm on (others complain about weight gain, which I know is more to do with feeling hungrier and overeating as a result). I'm also post menopause and fairly sedentary at the moment.
I thought half a pound a week for someone my age and height and activity level was about right?
@GottaBurnEmAll - hi twin This past week for instance, it was my birthday celebrations. My lowest weight was 166 on last Saturday morning, then I ate more mince pies/sausage rolls etc than I should have, had a couple of guesstimate cal meals and ended the weekend with a burger and small fries (all that I could get at that time of night). When I weighed the next morning I was 169.8. Today, less than a week later, I'm down to 165.2 (have been at in deficit cals since Monday).
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Ditto to inaccuracy - likely was eating more, meaning maintenance would be more by same unknown amount.
But with so little an increase, accuracy at higher eating level is likely to be the same.
So indeed go up to the 1450 mentioned, even if in reality that is actually a higher eaten number.
But, as also mentioned, that rate of loss was also likely to already having an adapted lower TDEE, so 1450 won't be potential TDEE, but still suppressed TDEE.
I'd suggest go up to the 1450 first for a week, get used to it.
2nd week, increase by 100 extra each day - 1550.
At this point, go for another 100 extra daily for a 3rd week - 1650.
You won't suffer from a longer break after so long in a diet.
If you can get energy levels back and really have potential TDEE up around 1650 - then going forward the 250 deficit will leave you 1400 for eating goal.
Because if truly sedentary, less than 4000 steps daily and no workouts - I'm seeing 1595 estimated TDEE.
And then factor in regular breaks, and/or the 2 day refeed - to keep the TDEE up at potential rather than suppressed level.
Thanks for the good advice. I'll start at 1450 and see where I go from there.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Could be some logging inaccuracies too as that is a slow rate of loss for size/age/calorie intake.
I'm ridiculously pedantic when it comes to logging, even pre-packaged 'calorie-counted' foods I weigh as they are often incorrect. I check and re-check everything, always.
It may be slower because of the oestrogen-stripping hormone drugs I'm on (others complain about weight gain, which I know is more to do with feeling hungrier and overeating as a result). I'm also post menopause and fairly sedentary at the moment.
I thought half a pound a week for someone my age and height and activity level was about right?
@GottaBurnEmAll - hi twin This past week for instance, it was my birthday celebrations. My lowest weight was 166 on last Saturday morning, then I ate more mince pies/sausage rolls etc than I should have, had a couple of guesstimate cal meals and ended the weekend with a burger and small fries (all that I could get at that time of night). When I weighed the next morning I was 169.8. Today, less than a week later, I'm down to 165.2 (have been at in deficit cals since Monday).
Well, it's hard to tell what happened there with actual fat loss due to not knowing what your weight was before the weekend. That high weight is artificially high due to extra food and water in your system, so it wasn't all fat loss that you saw on the scale that week.
When you say you check and double check everything, do you also verify data base entries?0 -
"Well, it's hard to tell what happened there with actual fat loss due to not knowing what your weight was before the weekend. That high weight is artificially high due to extra food and water in your system, so it wasn't all fat loss that you saw on the scale that week.
When you say you check and double check everything, do you also verify data base entries?"
Weight at the start of the weekend was 166.
Re data base entries, I go by food packaging labels for cal content (or use the US database for guidance), then find a correct MFP database entry or make my own if there isn't one.
I think I probably have lost more than .5lb a week on average, looking back. More than a pound some weeks, sometimes two, other times I can swing back and forth over the same pound for 10 days. I had a month or two in the middle when I stopped counting and gained a bit back, which is now gone again.
I'm a yo-yo dieter - I've lost and gained the same 5 or 6 stone more times than I care to count. Usually through heavily restricting cals more than was healthy because I was impatient for results - not something I'm doing this time. It's much harder this time around (slower) but that's to be expected. I also feel better equipped to keep it off going forward. Knowing the science behind it all really helps. If you do A+B, you get C (for the most part).
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