Of refeeds and diet breaks
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skinnyjingbb wrote: »Just saw this thread when I read else where about break up big weight loss into stages. I was 190lbs 40 days ago and now lost 17lbs by keeping to 1000 to 1200 calorie per day. My goal weight is 140lbs, so I am thinking to take a break after 160lbs maintain it for a month or so, eating about 1500 calorie per day so my body won't go into starvation mod. For now, I do have cheat meal so basically I would have one 1500 day a week.
Does any one have similar experience and have any suggestions? Do you think a break is a good idea?
Starvation mode as you're possibly thinking of it isn't a thing, but your body adapting somewhat to dieting is.
That's what this thread is about. Have you watched the videos posted earlier in the thread? They explain all of this in detail.
To sum it up in rudimentary terms, eating at a caloric deficit down regulates certain hormones. Periods of refeeding/diet breaks at maintenance calories for one's current weight bring those hormones back to a baseline level, thus potentially rendering subsequent attempts at deficit eating more effective.
If you've lost 17 pounds in 40 days eating 1000 - 1200 calories , your maintenance calories are higher than 1500, and when you take a diet break, you should eat closer to 2200-2400 calories unless my quick math in my head is wrong.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »skinnyjingbb wrote: »Just saw this thread when I read else where about break up big weight loss into stages. I was 190lbs 40 days ago and now lost 17lbs by keeping to 1000 to 1200 calorie per day. My goal weight is 140lbs, so I am thinking to take a break after 160lbs maintain it for a month or so, eating about 1500 calorie per day so my body won't go into starvation mod. For now, I do have cheat meal so basically I would have one 1500 day a week.
Does any one have similar experience and have any suggestions? Do you think a break is a good idea?
Starvation mode as you're possibly thinking of it isn't a thing, but your body adapting somewhat to dieting is.
That's what this thread is about. Have you watched the videos posted earlier in the thread? They explain all of this in detail.
To sum it up in rudimentary terms, eating at a caloric deficit down regulates certain hormones. Periods of refeeding/diet breaks at maintenance calories for one's current weight bring those hormones back to a baseline level, thus potentially rendering subsequent attempts at deficit eating more effective.
If you've lost 17 pounds in 40 days eating 1000 - 1200 calories , your maintenance calories are higher than 1500, and when you take a diet break, you should eat closer to 2200-2400 calories unless my quick math in my head is wrong.
Snap
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »@Nony_Mouse, @anubis609, thank you for your kind words. They help tremendously. I've actually booked a session with a therapist just last week after my really bad episode. It took me seeing what others were going through in this thread and other threads here that prompted me to do it, something I would never have done previously. Fingers crossed!A small update from me - so much so for the accuracy of my numbers.
Quite an embarrassing confession to make but in the midst of all the conversions from kg to pounds (which I do for this forum and a couple of others), I had my calculations set up as 3500 cals = 1kg, not 1 pound. So my rate of loss the past 4 months was double what it should have been if the 3500 cals = 1 pound rule was taken.
For the science-y people in or reading this thread who may be interested, here are my numbers. And for those who may be scared to up their calories, so many great testimonials already from others who have posted but here's mine. While my monthly numbers do not match projected scale drops each month likely due to water weight, TOM, binging vs whoosh effect etc etc but taken overall, the numbers match (apart from the fact that I need to look at the CO part carefully now since my garmin may not be as accurate as I thought).
(ETA: October was the start of the Refeed approach)
I'm officially on a diet break now (aka maintenance) and will be on this till probably around March next year.
So you ate almost 1000 calories more and still lost weight.
Dont let the main forums now, they will freak the hell out.
Sorry if that has been pointed out, 4 pages behind lol
IKR!
It was this thread that helped me decide to stick to upping cals and going maintenance (refeed) with a higher deficit. I think it was the whoosh effect which I mentioned right at the beginning (first few pages) of this thread AND not to mention, my training got sooo much better too. That was when I thought Holy hell, something's working here!
Next mission - finding how high I can go with calories!!
I actually almost want to make this a separate thread. Because the whole concept of eat more to lose more *kitten* blows peoples minds. I know I did it (went from 1800 to 2300 calories). Too many people just think in linear fashion that they can't fathom increase in EE driven by increase in calories (i.e., spontaneous changes in NEAT or increase in TEA).
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I have found that there is kinda of a calorie sweet spot for me. If I eat 1300/1400 I can not sustain that. I am STARVING. I can eat 1500 for a short period of time. After about 2 weeks I am cranky and my energy is very low. I start to conserve. I am move around a lot less, I don't fidget. If I eat around 1650 I seem to lose about the same amount as I would @ 1500. My energy levels are much better and I move around more.
Exactly. Not to mention TEF also plays a part in increased calorie intake, protein having the greatest effect, followed by carbs; fat is almost negligible but contributes to circulating FFAs and storage if consumed along with overfeeding. Interestingly, you basically become a human oven when you overfeed, especially protein. So even at higher calculated calorie intake, the body ticks up in metabolic processes to digest it, resulting in increased NEAT for most people.
And see, this is a catch 22 for me, because the last thing I want is to be hotter!!
Breakfast finally eaten at almost midday (I did have some yoghurt first thing to take my pred), 60g of protein down the hatch so far.
Is sesame an EFA? My pizza bases are sprouted seed, not sure if there's flax in there as well. Meh, I'll just pour some flax oil on that sucker!!
I got blueberries as well as strawberries at market this morning @anubis609 . And watermelon plants!! Must get some strawberry plants to put in too. This all involves me creating a garden bed somewhere, which is going to have to be an evening activity of course ![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
I have a wee bed at the edge of the deck that some strawberries can go in, just have to weed it. Watermelon garden will require turfing some grass and enriching the soil. AKA using ma muscles!
Oh and my friend who is here kindly doing some weed whacking for me confirmed that he too thinks the mystery bush in my back garden may be a blueberry!! No signs of fruit on it atm though
Nony, what foods do you eat, besides shakes, to get so much protein? I'm starting to think I need to have more dairy.1 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »@Nony_Mouse, @anubis609, thank you for your kind words. They help tremendously. I've actually booked a session with a therapist just last week after my really bad episode. It took me seeing what others were going through in this thread and other threads here that prompted me to do it, something I would never have done previously. Fingers crossed!A small update from me - so much so for the accuracy of my numbers.
Quite an embarrassing confession to make but in the midst of all the conversions from kg to pounds (which I do for this forum and a couple of others), I had my calculations set up as 3500 cals = 1kg, not 1 pound. So my rate of loss the past 4 months was double what it should have been if the 3500 cals = 1 pound rule was taken.
For the science-y people in or reading this thread who may be interested, here are my numbers. And for those who may be scared to up their calories, so many great testimonials already from others who have posted but here's mine. While my monthly numbers do not match projected scale drops each month likely due to water weight, TOM, binging vs whoosh effect etc etc but taken overall, the numbers match (apart from the fact that I need to look at the CO part carefully now since my garmin may not be as accurate as I thought).
(ETA: October was the start of the Refeed approach)
I'm officially on a diet break now (aka maintenance) and will be on this till probably around March next year.
So you ate almost 1000 calories more and still lost weight.
Dont let the main forums now, they will freak the hell out.
Sorry if that has been pointed out, 4 pages behind lol IKR!
It was this thread that helped me decide to stick to upping cals and going maintenance (refeed) with a higher deficit. I think it was the whoosh effect which I mentioned right at the beginning (first few pages) of this thread AND not to mention, my training got sooo much better too. That was when I thought Holy hell, something's working here!
Next mission - finding how high I can go with calories!!
I actually almost want to make this a separate thread. Because the whole concept of eat more to lose more *kitten* blows peoples minds. I know I did it (went from 1800 to 2300 calories). Too many people just think in linear fashion that they can't fathom increase in EE driven by increase in calories (i.e., spontaneous changes in NEAT or increase in TEA).
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I have found that there is kinda of a calorie sweet spot for me. If I eat 1300/1400 I can not sustain that. I am STARVING. I can eat 1500 for a short period of time. After about 2 weeks I am cranky and my energy is very low. I start to conserve. I am move around a lot less, I don't fidget. If I eat around 1650 I seem to lose about the same amount as I would @ 1500. My energy levels are much better and I move around more.
Exactly. Not to mention TEF also plays a part in increased calorie intake, protein having the greatest effect, followed by carbs; fat is almost negligible but contributes to circulating FFAs and storage if consumed along with overfeeding. Interestingly, you basically become a human oven when you overfeed, especially protein. So even at higher calculated calorie intake, the body ticks up in metabolic processes to digest it, resulting in increased NEAT for most people.
And see, this is a catch 22 for me, because the last thing I want is to be hotter!!
Breakfast finally eaten at almost midday (I did have some yoghurt first thing to take my pred), 60g of protein down the hatch so far.
Is sesame an EFA? My pizza bases are sprouted seed, not sure if there's flax in there as well. Meh, I'll just pour some flax oil on that sucker!!
I got blueberries as well as strawberries at market this morning @anubis609 . And watermelon plants!! Must get some strawberry plants to put in too. This all involves me creating a garden bed somewhere, which is going to have to be an evening activity of course I have a wee bed at the edge of the deck that some strawberries can go in, just have to weed it. Watermelon garden will require turfing some grass and enriching the soil. AKA using ma muscles!
Oh and my friend who is here kindly doing some weed whacking for me confirmed that he too thinks the mystery bush in my back garden may be a blueberry!! No signs of fruit on it atm though
Nony, what foods do you eat, besides shakes, to get so much protein? I'm starting to think I need to have more dairy.
I'm not Nony, but since I'm also a vegetarian, I'll answer as well if you don't mind.
Cottage cheese and Greek yogurt are my two biggest protein sources. In fact, I don't really eat much in the way of protein powder or shakes, except in the summer when I make protein ice cream.
There's a vegetarian meat sub (made with pea protein) I sometimes eat, but we don't have it all that often (I say we, because my daughter is also veggie).
I also eat eggs and egg whites, but not that often because I have to watch my intake of cholesterol due to having familial hypercholesterolemia.
I also love bean pasta. Our favorite brand is Banza, we eat that with a vegetable sauce tossed with fat free mozzeralla for a meal packed with protein.
We do eat beans, usually in soups as my daughter isn't overly fond of the texture unless they're mixed in with other things.
I'm soy intollerant, so we don't do tofu or tempeh or anything like that.2 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »@Nony_Mouse, @anubis609, thank you for your kind words. They help tremendously. I've actually booked a session with a therapist just last week after my really bad episode. It took me seeing what others were going through in this thread and other threads here that prompted me to do it, something I would never have done previously. Fingers crossed!A small update from me - so much so for the accuracy of my numbers.
Quite an embarrassing confession to make but in the midst of all the conversions from kg to pounds (which I do for this forum and a couple of others), I had my calculations set up as 3500 cals = 1kg, not 1 pound. So my rate of loss the past 4 months was double what it should have been if the 3500 cals = 1 pound rule was taken.
For the science-y people in or reading this thread who may be interested, here are my numbers. And for those who may be scared to up their calories, so many great testimonials already from others who have posted but here's mine. While my monthly numbers do not match projected scale drops each month likely due to water weight, TOM, binging vs whoosh effect etc etc but taken overall, the numbers match (apart from the fact that I need to look at the CO part carefully now since my garmin may not be as accurate as I thought).
(ETA: October was the start of the Refeed approach)
I'm officially on a diet break now (aka maintenance) and will be on this till probably around March next year.
So you ate almost 1000 calories more and still lost weight.
Dont let the main forums now, they will freak the hell out.
Sorry if that has been pointed out, 4 pages behind lol IKR!
It was this thread that helped me decide to stick to upping cals and going maintenance (refeed) with a higher deficit. I think it was the whoosh effect which I mentioned right at the beginning (first few pages) of this thread AND not to mention, my training got sooo much better too. That was when I thought Holy hell, something's working here!
Next mission - finding how high I can go with calories!!
I actually almost want to make this a separate thread. Because the whole concept of eat more to lose more *kitten* blows peoples minds. I know I did it (went from 1800 to 2300 calories). Too many people just think in linear fashion that they can't fathom increase in EE driven by increase in calories (i.e., spontaneous changes in NEAT or increase in TEA).
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I have found that there is kinda of a calorie sweet spot for me. If I eat 1300/1400 I can not sustain that. I am STARVING. I can eat 1500 for a short period of time. After about 2 weeks I am cranky and my energy is very low. I start to conserve. I am move around a lot less, I don't fidget. If I eat around 1650 I seem to lose about the same amount as I would @ 1500. My energy levels are much better and I move around more.
Exactly. Not to mention TEF also plays a part in increased calorie intake, protein having the greatest effect, followed by carbs; fat is almost negligible but contributes to circulating FFAs and storage if consumed along with overfeeding. Interestingly, you basically become a human oven when you overfeed, especially protein. So even at higher calculated calorie intake, the body ticks up in metabolic processes to digest it, resulting in increased NEAT for most people.
And see, this is a catch 22 for me, because the last thing I want is to be hotter!!
Breakfast finally eaten at almost midday (I did have some yoghurt first thing to take my pred), 60g of protein down the hatch so far.
Is sesame an EFA? My pizza bases are sprouted seed, not sure if there's flax in there as well. Meh, I'll just pour some flax oil on that sucker!!
I got blueberries as well as strawberries at market this morning @anubis609 . And watermelon plants!! Must get some strawberry plants to put in too. This all involves me creating a garden bed somewhere, which is going to have to be an evening activity of course I have a wee bed at the edge of the deck that some strawberries can go in, just have to weed it. Watermelon garden will require turfing some grass and enriching the soil. AKA using ma muscles!
Oh and my friend who is here kindly doing some weed whacking for me confirmed that he too thinks the mystery bush in my back garden may be a blueberry!! No signs of fruit on it atm though
Nony, what foods do you eat, besides shakes, to get so much protein? I'm starting to think I need to have more dairy.
I eat 130g a day and could easily eat more.
I usually have a meal with eggs/whites, a sprouted wholemeal bread sandwich with cheese, dinner with salmon, and dessert is usually yoghurt based, with jelly too. I get a bit from the large amount of vegies and nuts in those meals too.
I also have coffee with milk, and with a bit of protein powder and some sort of oil whizzed up.
Beans are a great way to get more protein if you don't want meat...1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »@Nony_Mouse, @anubis609, thank you for your kind words. They help tremendously. I've actually booked a session with a therapist just last week after my really bad episode. It took me seeing what others were going through in this thread and other threads here that prompted me to do it, something I would never have done previously. Fingers crossed!A small update from me - so much so for the accuracy of my numbers.
Quite an embarrassing confession to make but in the midst of all the conversions from kg to pounds (which I do for this forum and a couple of others), I had my calculations set up as 3500 cals = 1kg, not 1 pound. So my rate of loss the past 4 months was double what it should have been if the 3500 cals = 1 pound rule was taken.
For the science-y people in or reading this thread who may be interested, here are my numbers. And for those who may be scared to up their calories, so many great testimonials already from others who have posted but here's mine. While my monthly numbers do not match projected scale drops each month likely due to water weight, TOM, binging vs whoosh effect etc etc but taken overall, the numbers match (apart from the fact that I need to look at the CO part carefully now since my garmin may not be as accurate as I thought).
(ETA: October was the start of the Refeed approach)
I'm officially on a diet break now (aka maintenance) and will be on this till probably around March next year.
So you ate almost 1000 calories more and still lost weight.
Dont let the main forums now, they will freak the hell out.
Sorry if that has been pointed out, 4 pages behind lol IKR!
It was this thread that helped me decide to stick to upping cals and going maintenance (refeed) with a higher deficit. I think it was the whoosh effect which I mentioned right at the beginning (first few pages) of this thread AND not to mention, my training got sooo much better too. That was when I thought Holy hell, something's working here!
Next mission - finding how high I can go with calories!!
I actually almost want to make this a separate thread. Because the whole concept of eat more to lose more *kitten* blows peoples minds. I know I did it (went from 1800 to 2300 calories). Too many people just think in linear fashion that they can't fathom increase in EE driven by increase in calories (i.e., spontaneous changes in NEAT or increase in TEA).
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I have found that there is kinda of a calorie sweet spot for me. If I eat 1300/1400 I can not sustain that. I am STARVING. I can eat 1500 for a short period of time. After about 2 weeks I am cranky and my energy is very low. I start to conserve. I am move around a lot less, I don't fidget. If I eat around 1650 I seem to lose about the same amount as I would @ 1500. My energy levels are much better and I move around more.
Exactly. Not to mention TEF also plays a part in increased calorie intake, protein having the greatest effect, followed by carbs; fat is almost negligible but contributes to circulating FFAs and storage if consumed along with overfeeding. Interestingly, you basically become a human oven when you overfeed, especially protein. So even at higher calculated calorie intake, the body ticks up in metabolic processes to digest it, resulting in increased NEAT for most people.
And see, this is a catch 22 for me, because the last thing I want is to be hotter!!
Breakfast finally eaten at almost midday (I did have some yoghurt first thing to take my pred), 60g of protein down the hatch so far.
Is sesame an EFA? My pizza bases are sprouted seed, not sure if there's flax in there as well. Meh, I'll just pour some flax oil on that sucker!!
I got blueberries as well as strawberries at market this morning @anubis609 . And watermelon plants!! Must get some strawberry plants to put in too. This all involves me creating a garden bed somewhere, which is going to have to be an evening activity of course I have a wee bed at the edge of the deck that some strawberries can go in, just have to weed it. Watermelon garden will require turfing some grass and enriching the soil. AKA using ma muscles!
Oh and my friend who is here kindly doing some weed whacking for me confirmed that he too thinks the mystery bush in my back garden may be a blueberry!! No signs of fruit on it atm though
There are only so many ways I can spin this into something completely unsavory for public consumption, but now that I've put that all in everyone's minds, you're welcome
I'd trade you weather for a while. It's colder and dry af here. And score for the berries! Gimme.
I'm not sure what the conversion rate of flax based omegas is to bioavailable DHA/EPA but better than none at all
skinnyjingbb wrote: »Just saw this thread when I read else where about break up big weight loss into stages. I was 190lbs 40 days ago and now lost 17lbs by keeping to 1000 to 1200 calorie per day. My goal weight is 140lbs, so I am thinking to take a break after 160lbs maintain it for a month or so, eating about 1500 calorie per day so my body won't go into starvation mod. For now, I do have cheat meal so basically I would have one 1500 day a week.
Does any one have similar experience and have any suggestions? Do you think a break is a good idea?
Oh boy. I'm glad you've found this thread, and while it's a trudge, there are some links and podcasts in the early pages that might help you better understand how the body reacts to large deficits for an extended period of time.
Firstly, starvation mode is a myth. Adaptive thermogenesis is the correct term that correlates with the body down regulating hormones and activity to match the amount of limited energy coming in. It will adapt in both directions and it will adapt at homeostasis.
Secondly, what you refer to as "cheat meals" is what we refer to as a structured refeed. It's a purposeful overfeeding period to bring hormonal response back up as high as it can get temporarily before it drops back down.
Thirdly, as you become leaner, your body will fight back harder to try and maintain its fat stores from depleting. Any weight lost will come from muscle if not eating enough protein and strength training to prevent muscle wasting, leading to the unwanted status of "skinny fat."
Like @Nony_Mouse stated, these numbers and weights are out of context to your question, but at the very least, even calculating your BMR at minimum 1730kcal is the rough estimate, and even if we were to take absolute sedentary status as a multiplier, 173 x 0.9 = 1557kcal/day is about the minimum your body could still be losing body fat, assuming protein was accounted for to reduce loss of lean mass.
Trying to slam calories as low as humanly possible is not sustainable long term, and thinking you can maintain at levels of BMR are only encouraging an eating disorder or an unhealthy association to scale weight and food intake.
Without knowing anything else about you, no one can really give any real advice, though if you've been on a continuous deficit this entire time, take a couple weeks from dieting and eat at your new calculated maintenance at your current weight. Take the time to figure out your protein needs (roughly ~1g per pound of your ideal/goal weight, but that need increases when in a deficit), then choose to focus on either higher carb or higher fat, or a balance of both (depends on your preference).
If you haven't taken a liking to any activity yet, then my recommendation will be to include some form of resistance training and progressively increase the challenge over time.5 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »@Nony_Mouse, @anubis609, thank you for your kind words. They help tremendously. I've actually booked a session with a therapist just last week after my really bad episode. It took me seeing what others were going through in this thread and other threads here that prompted me to do it, something I would never have done previously. Fingers crossed!A small update from me - so much so for the accuracy of my numbers.
Quite an embarrassing confession to make but in the midst of all the conversions from kg to pounds (which I do for this forum and a couple of others), I had my calculations set up as 3500 cals = 1kg, not 1 pound. So my rate of loss the past 4 months was double what it should have been if the 3500 cals = 1 pound rule was taken.
For the science-y people in or reading this thread who may be interested, here are my numbers. And for those who may be scared to up their calories, so many great testimonials already from others who have posted but here's mine. While my monthly numbers do not match projected scale drops each month likely due to water weight, TOM, binging vs whoosh effect etc etc but taken overall, the numbers match (apart from the fact that I need to look at the CO part carefully now since my garmin may not be as accurate as I thought).
(ETA: October was the start of the Refeed approach)
I'm officially on a diet break now (aka maintenance) and will be on this till probably around March next year.
So you ate almost 1000 calories more and still lost weight.
Dont let the main forums now, they will freak the hell out.
Sorry if that has been pointed out, 4 pages behind lol IKR!
It was this thread that helped me decide to stick to upping cals and going maintenance (refeed) with a higher deficit. I think it was the whoosh effect which I mentioned right at the beginning (first few pages) of this thread AND not to mention, my training got sooo much better too. That was when I thought Holy hell, something's working here!
Next mission - finding how high I can go with calories!!
I actually almost want to make this a separate thread. Because the whole concept of eat more to lose more *kitten* blows peoples minds. I know I did it (went from 1800 to 2300 calories). Too many people just think in linear fashion that they can't fathom increase in EE driven by increase in calories (i.e., spontaneous changes in NEAT or increase in TEA).
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I have found that there is kinda of a calorie sweet spot for me. If I eat 1300/1400 I can not sustain that. I am STARVING. I can eat 1500 for a short period of time. After about 2 weeks I am cranky and my energy is very low. I start to conserve. I am move around a lot less, I don't fidget. If I eat around 1650 I seem to lose about the same amount as I would @ 1500. My energy levels are much better and I move around more.
Exactly. Not to mention TEF also plays a part in increased calorie intake, protein having the greatest effect, followed by carbs; fat is almost negligible but contributes to circulating FFAs and storage if consumed along with overfeeding. Interestingly, you basically become a human oven when you overfeed, especially protein. So even at higher calculated calorie intake, the body ticks up in metabolic processes to digest it, resulting in increased NEAT for most people.
And see, this is a catch 22 for me, because the last thing I want is to be hotter!!
Breakfast finally eaten at almost midday (I did have some yoghurt first thing to take my pred), 60g of protein down the hatch so far.
Is sesame an EFA? My pizza bases are sprouted seed, not sure if there's flax in there as well. Meh, I'll just pour some flax oil on that sucker!!
I got blueberries as well as strawberries at market this morning @anubis609 . And watermelon plants!! Must get some strawberry plants to put in too. This all involves me creating a garden bed somewhere, which is going to have to be an evening activity of course I have a wee bed at the edge of the deck that some strawberries can go in, just have to weed it. Watermelon garden will require turfing some grass and enriching the soil. AKA using ma muscles!
Oh and my friend who is here kindly doing some weed whacking for me confirmed that he too thinks the mystery bush in my back garden may be a blueberry!! No signs of fruit on it atm though
Nony, what foods do you eat, besides shakes, to get so much protein? I'm starting to think I need to have more dairy.
All of the dairy. Like, currently in my fridge there is an open tub of plain Greek yoghurt, another two unopened (saves going to the supermarket every couple of days, should just start making my own again), an open tub of Passionfruit Greek yoghurt, an almost empty 3l of skim milk (conveniently higher protein than normal), a full 3l of said milk, uh, 750g + of cottage cheese, hard cheese block, mozzarella, low fat feta, several packets of halloumi...in the pantry three different protein powders (strawberry, chocolate, plain - add that one to breakfast yoghurt), dark choc peanut butter....um, I think that's it. Oh, also tempeh in the fridge. Should eat some of that. Delicious eggies are unfortunately a no for me (*kitten* you, eczema).
I'm half Dutch, I take my genetic predisposition for dairy seriously 7 -
@anubis609, I knew I was leaving myself wide open with that bush comment. If it is blueberry, I am so gonna taunt you with them!3
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Thanks so much for all of the vegetarian protein suggestions! This will be much easier if I start having regular dairy and maybe some hard boiled eggs (only way I can stand them) Also planning to make a big batch of my 4 bean vegan chili soon so good! 3
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Familial hypercholesterolemia aside, naturally occurring sources of cholesterol; i.e. eggs, beef, chicken, etc., generally don't contribute to increased levels of serum cholesterol. It all stems from the liver and basically the way it works is that depending on the substrate composition, the liver will produce its own cholesterol to compensate.
We already know that HDL is considered the "good" lipoprotein and that LDL is interpreted as the "bad" one, however triglycerides are generally overlooked in the modern health world and I don't know why, but having a high saturation of them isn't good either considering that's exactly what gets shoved into adipose tissue and in a metabolic emergency, will collect around the organs as ectopic fat. It's literally a fatty sugar.
Anyway, it delves into lipidology and a lot of terminology that I can only convey well via metaphors and analogies, but the ultra rough cheat sheet is that nutrient dense foods with their own naturally occurring macros and fatty acids will actually normalize most people's lipid panels. The more processed the food, the more deleterious the lipid panel; i.e. if a vegetarian grazes on cake, cookies, vegan ice cream, snack back, etc., triglycerides shoot up, HDL goes down, LDL might go down; on the other hand, if a low carber eats fatty dairy and nuts along with protein, HDL goes up, trigs go down, and LDL shoots up; anyone following a low fat diet will usually have reduced LDL but HDL and trigs may stay the same.
The best of all worlds would be to follow a natural occurring nutrient dense food diet without restricting any macro, and HDL tends to be a little higher, trigs tend to be around the same as HDL, and LDL tends to be reduced to the upper end of normal.
I've participated in contributing to the data in Dave Feldman's breakdown for his site cholesterolcode.com. Yes, he has a keto/low carb slant, but that doesn't bar him from at least trying to be objective in his data collection. Also, he's an engineer for a living, not a lipidologist, but like a lot of us, he got sucked into a specific realm of dietary nutrition and has gone balls deep into it. I've gotten more needle sticks in 2 weeks than I've wanted in over a typical year, ranging from eating super high fat/high calorie intakes, all the way down to super low calorie low fat 700-900kcal/day intakes. Both periods of experimentation weren't very fun
This has nothing really to do with @GottaBurnEmAll's personal preference at all, but just reading it kind of just allowed me to go on this unnecessary tangent lol.
And @Nony_Mouse, I look forward to your bush berries >_<4 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »Thanks so much for all of the vegetarian protein suggestions! This will be much easier if I start having regular dairy and maybe some hard boiled eggs (only way I can stand them) Also planning to make a big batch of my 4 bean vegan chili soon so good!
Are you just trying to avoid protein powder, or shakes? I don't do shakes, but add protein powder to yoghurt to bump up protein (plus flavour, and sweetness without added sugar from "flavoured" yoghurts), as well as in protein pancakes/waffles. The pancakes feature as a regular weekend meal 1 -
Gawd, I think I need to set myself reminders to eat. I mean to at a normal time, get distracted, then it's an hour or two later. This is very much what I'm like with super stress/anxiety: hyper and just flat out forget to eat. Munching on lunch now at 2.46pm. I think I will make potato au gratin for dinner, 1) potassium, 2) can eat it cold or luke warm, 3) can pick at it. Oh and 4) cheeeeese!1
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »@Nony_Mouse, @anubis609, thank you for your kind words. They help tremendously. I've actually booked a session with a therapist just last week after my really bad episode. It took me seeing what others were going through in this thread and other threads here that prompted me to do it, something I would never have done previously. Fingers crossed!A small update from me - so much so for the accuracy of my numbers.
Quite an embarrassing confession to make but in the midst of all the conversions from kg to pounds (which I do for this forum and a couple of others), I had my calculations set up as 3500 cals = 1kg, not 1 pound. So my rate of loss the past 4 months was double what it should have been if the 3500 cals = 1 pound rule was taken.
For the science-y people in or reading this thread who may be interested, here are my numbers. And for those who may be scared to up their calories, so many great testimonials already from others who have posted but here's mine. While my monthly numbers do not match projected scale drops each month likely due to water weight, TOM, binging vs whoosh effect etc etc but taken overall, the numbers match (apart from the fact that I need to look at the CO part carefully now since my garmin may not be as accurate as I thought).
(ETA: October was the start of the Refeed approach)
I'm officially on a diet break now (aka maintenance) and will be on this till probably around March next year.
So you ate almost 1000 calories more and still lost weight.
Dont let the main forums now, they will freak the hell out.
Sorry if that has been pointed out, 4 pages behind lol IKR!
It was this thread that helped me decide to stick to upping cals and going maintenance (refeed) with a higher deficit. I think it was the whoosh effect which I mentioned right at the beginning (first few pages) of this thread AND not to mention, my training got sooo much better too. That was when I thought Holy hell, something's working here!
Next mission - finding how high I can go with calories!!
I actually almost want to make this a separate thread. Because the whole concept of eat more to lose more *kitten* blows peoples minds. I know I did it (went from 1800 to 2300 calories). Too many people just think in linear fashion that they can't fathom increase in EE driven by increase in calories (i.e., spontaneous changes in NEAT or increase in TEA).
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I have found that there is kinda of a calorie sweet spot for me. If I eat 1300/1400 I can not sustain that. I am STARVING. I can eat 1500 for a short period of time. After about 2 weeks I am cranky and my energy is very low. I start to conserve. I am move around a lot less, I don't fidget. If I eat around 1650 I seem to lose about the same amount as I would @ 1500. My energy levels are much better and I move around more.
Exactly. Not to mention TEF also plays a part in increased calorie intake, protein having the greatest effect, followed by carbs; fat is almost negligible but contributes to circulating FFAs and storage if consumed along with overfeeding. Interestingly, you basically become a human oven when you overfeed, especially protein. So even at higher calculated calorie intake, the body ticks up in metabolic processes to digest it, resulting in increased NEAT for most people.
And see, this is a catch 22 for me, because the last thing I want is to be hotter!!
Breakfast finally eaten at almost midday (I did have some yoghurt first thing to take my pred), 60g of protein down the hatch so far.
Is sesame an EFA? My pizza bases are sprouted seed, not sure if there's flax in there as well. Meh, I'll just pour some flax oil on that sucker!!
I got blueberries as well as strawberries at market this morning @anubis609 . And watermelon plants!! Must get some strawberry plants to put in too. This all involves me creating a garden bed somewhere, which is going to have to be an evening activity of course I have a wee bed at the edge of the deck that some strawberries can go in, just have to weed it. Watermelon garden will require turfing some grass and enriching the soil. AKA using ma muscles!
Oh and my friend who is here kindly doing some weed whacking for me confirmed that he too thinks the mystery bush in my back garden may be a blueberry!! No signs of fruit on it atm though
There are only so many ways I can spin this into something completely unsavory for public consumption, but now that I've put that all in everyone's minds, you're welcome
I'd trade you weather for a while. It's colder and dry af here. And score for the berries! Gimme.
I'm not sure what the conversion rate of flax based omegas is to bioavailable DHA/EPA but better than none at allskinnyjingbb wrote: »Just saw this thread when I read else where about break up big weight loss into stages. I was 190lbs 40 days ago and now lost 17lbs by keeping to 1000 to 1200 calorie per day. My goal weight is 140lbs, so I am thinking to take a break after 160lbs maintain it for a month or so, eating about 1500 calorie per day so my body won't go into starvation mod. For now, I do have cheat meal so basically I would have one 1500 day a week.
Does any one have similar experience and have any suggestions? Do you think a break is a good idea?
Oh boy. I'm glad you've found this thread, and while it's a trudge, there are some links and podcasts in the early pages that might help you better understand how the body reacts to large deficits for an extended period of time.
Firstly, starvation mode is a myth. Adaptive thermogenesis is the correct term that correlates with the body down regulating hormones and activity to match the amount of limited energy coming in. It will adapt in both directions and it will adapt at homeostasis.
Secondly, what you refer to as "cheat meals" is what we refer to as a structured refeed. It's a purposeful overfeeding period to bring hormonal response back up as high as it can get temporarily before it drops back down.
Thirdly, as you become leaner, your body will fight back harder to try and maintain its fat stores from depleting. Any weight lost will come from muscle if not eating enough protein and strength training to prevent muscle wasting, leading to the unwanted status of "skinny fat."
Like @Nony_Mouse stated, these numbers and weights are out of context to your question, but at the very least, even calculating your BMR at minimum 1730kcal is the rough estimate, and even if we were to take absolute sedentary status as a multiplier, 173 x 0.9 = 1557kcal/day is about the minimum your body could still be losing body fat, assuming protein was accounted for to reduce loss of lean mass.
Trying to slam calories as low as humanly possible is not sustainable long term, and thinking you can maintain at levels of BMR are only encouraging an eating disorder or an unhealthy association to scale weight and food intake.
Without knowing anything else about you, no one can really give any real advice, though if you've been on a continuous deficit this entire time, take a couple weeks from dieting and eat at your new calculated maintenance at your current weight. Take the time to figure out your protein needs (roughly ~1g per pound of your ideal/goal weight, but that need increases when in a deficit), then choose to focus on either higher carb or higher fat, or a balance of both (depends on your preference).
If you haven't taken a liking to any activity yet, then my recommendation will be to include some form of resistance training and progressively increase the challenge over time.
Quoted for truth and general all around awesomeness!1 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »Thanks so much for all of the vegetarian protein suggestions! This will be much easier if I start having regular dairy and maybe some hard boiled eggs (only way I can stand them) Also planning to make a big batch of my 4 bean vegan chili soon so good!
Are you just trying to avoid protein powder, or shakes? I don't do shakes, but add protein powder to yoghurt to bump up protein (plus flavour, and sweetness without added sugar from "flavoured" yoghurts), as well as in protein pancakes/waffles. The pancakes feature as a regular weekend meal
I don't mind drinking the one that I do have, but I don't want to have to need 2/per day. They aren't my favorite and I like eating my calories more. I think I will try putting some powder in yogurt like you said, that sounds good. My mom used to make "protein pancakes" with cookies & cream powder and egg whites, maybe I'll try that too.1 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »Thanks so much for all of the vegetarian protein suggestions! This will be much easier if I start having regular dairy and maybe some hard boiled eggs (only way I can stand them) Also planning to make a big batch of my 4 bean vegan chili soon so good!
Are you just trying to avoid protein powder, or shakes? I don't do shakes, but add protein powder to yoghurt to bump up protein (plus flavour, and sweetness without added sugar from "flavoured" yoghurts), as well as in protein pancakes/waffles. The pancakes feature as a regular weekend meal
I don't mind drinking the one that I do have, but I don't want to have to need 2/per day. They aren't my favorite and I like eating my calories more. I think I will try putting some powder in yogurt like you said, that sounds good. My mom used to make "protein pancakes" with cookies & cream powder and egg whites, maybe I'll try that too.
My regular pancake mix is zucchini (or pumpkin), protein powder, oats, green banana flour, egg whites, baking powder. sweetener (I use liquid stevia), cinnamon and vanilla is usually added too, because there's not a lot of flavour to my protein.
I use the banana flour because it's got a lot of resistant starch which is supposedly good for colon health.. But, just oats is fine too. I find without some proper "flour", they aren't the best consistency.1 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »Thanks so much for all of the vegetarian protein suggestions! This will be much easier if I start having regular dairy and maybe some hard boiled eggs (only way I can stand them) Also planning to make a big batch of my 4 bean vegan chili soon so good!
Are you just trying to avoid protein powder, or shakes? I don't do shakes, but add protein powder to yoghurt to bump up protein (plus flavour, and sweetness without added sugar from "flavoured" yoghurts), as well as in protein pancakes/waffles. The pancakes feature as a regular weekend meal
I don't mind drinking the one that I do have, but I don't want to have to need 2/per day. They aren't my favorite and I like eating my calories more. I think I will try putting some powder in yogurt like you said, that sounds good. My mom used to make "protein pancakes" with cookies & cream powder and egg whites, maybe I'll try that too.
Yeah, if I had a protein powder I wasn't fussed on I wouldn't be enthralled about having more than one either! Also, I'm one of those people that finds milk satiating, so as long as I have the cals for it, I am more than happy to have all the shakes (I mentioned I like dairy, right ?). If I was on sedentary deficit cals it would suck though. I try my best to avoid that!!
Putting it in stuff is perfectly legit. Also maybe try finding a powder you like more? Try out any single serve ones you spot, saves potentially wasting money on a whole tub.1 -
I probably will try out more once this one runs out. I've never been a fan of vanilla but I'm the only one in the house who has any interest in the plant-based powder. I bet I'd like chocolate a lot more0
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Familial hypercholesterolemia aside, naturally occurring sources of cholesterol; i.e. eggs, beef, chicken, etc., generally don't contribute to increased levels of serum cholesterol. It all stems from the liver and basically the way it works is that depending on the substrate composition, the liver will produce its own cholesterol to compensate.
We already know that HDL is considered the "good" lipoprotein and that LDL is interpreted as the "bad" one, however triglycerides are generally overlooked in the modern health world and I don't know why, but having a high saturation of them isn't good either considering that's exactly what gets shoved into adipose tissue and in a metabolic emergency, will collect around the organs as ectopic fat. It's literally a fatty sugar.
Anyway, it delves into lipidology and a lot of terminology that I can only convey well via metaphors and analogies, but the ultra rough cheat sheet is that nutrient dense foods with their own naturally occurring macros and fatty acids will actually normalize most people's lipid panels. The more processed the food, the more deleterious the lipid panel; i.e. if a vegetarian grazes on cake, cookies, vegan ice cream, snack back, etc., triglycerides shoot up, HDL goes down, LDL might go down; on the other hand, if a low carber eats fatty dairy and nuts along with protein, HDL goes up, trigs go down, and LDL shoots up; anyone following a low fat diet will usually have reduced LDL but HDL and trigs may stay the same.
The best of all worlds would be to follow a natural occurring nutrient dense food diet without restricting any macro, and HDL tends to be a little higher, trigs tend to be around the same as HDL, and LDL tends to be reduced to the upper end of normal.
I've participated in contributing to the data in Dave Feldman's breakdown for his site cholesterolcode.com. Yes, he has a keto/low carb slant, but that doesn't bar him from at least trying to be objective in his data collection. Also, he's an engineer for a living, not a lipidologist, but like a lot of us, he got sucked into a specific realm of dietary nutrition and has gone balls deep into it. I've gotten more needle sticks in 2 weeks than I've wanted in over a typical year, ranging from eating super high fat/high calorie intakes, all the way down to super low calorie low fat 700-900kcal/day intakes. Both periods of experimentation weren't very fun
This has nothing really to do with @GottaBurnEmAll's personal preference at all, but just reading it kind of just allowed me to go on this unnecessary tangent lol.
And @Nony_Mouse, I look forward to your bush berries >_<
What you talk about here is so true yet counter intuitive. I am living proof of it. Over the last 2 years I have done 2 things, eaten a balanced, unrestricted diet with a good dose of fats, including omega 3 and saturated fat. Lost about 10lbs of body fat.
In my annual physical a year ago with my Dr., an osteopath who is very well versed is naturopathic and nutritional solutions, he looked at my triglycerides and asked me if I was doing keto or low carb. I said no, why? He said for a man of 65 (at the time) you have the triglycerides of a 30 year old athlete! And my Total Chol/ HDL ratio was well below the average risk of 4.5 at 3.9.
A year later, at age 66, the number were even better! Triglycerides were improved and Tot Chol/ HDL was 3.4. His take: you eat a healthy balanced diet with adequate omega 3's and sat. fat, you lost body fat and brought your weight into a healthy range and you do vigorous exercise. That is the trifecta.
The lipid hypothesis is dead (for those that don't have hypercholesteremia). Fats are not the problem. Even saturated fats. As you say, if we don't get enough through a balanced, without restricting fats unnecessarily , our livers will make it!
My apologies for going off on a tangent but this is an area of passionate interest for me!
ETA: I blame anubis. 5 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »Thanks so much for all of the vegetarian protein suggestions! This will be much easier if I start having regular dairy and maybe some hard boiled eggs (only way I can stand them) Also planning to make a big batch of my 4 bean vegan chili soon so good!
Are you just trying to avoid protein powder, or shakes? I don't do shakes, but add protein powder to yoghurt to bump up protein (plus flavour, and sweetness without added sugar from "flavoured" yoghurts), as well as in protein pancakes/waffles. The pancakes feature as a regular weekend meal
I don't mind drinking the one that I do have, but I don't want to have to need 2/per day. They aren't my favorite and I like eating my calories more. I think I will try putting some powder in yogurt like you said, that sounds good. My mom used to make "protein pancakes" with cookies & cream powder and egg whites, maybe I'll try that too.
My regular pancake mix is zucchini (or pumpkin), protein powder, oats, green banana flour, egg whites, baking powder. sweetener (I use liquid stevia), cinnamon and vanilla is usually added too, because there's not a lot of flavour to my protein.
I use the banana flour because it's got a lot of resistant starch which is supposedly good for colon health.. But, just oats is fine too. I find without some proper "flour", they aren't the best consistency.
That sounds good! Yeah I remember the ones my mom made being pretty flat.0 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »I probably will try out more once this one runs out. I've never been a fan of vanilla but I'm the only one in the house who has any interest in the plant-based powder. I bet I'd like chocolate a lot more
I like chocolate a lot! I keep chocolate and plain unflavored on hand. The chocolate I usually have once per day with 1/2 a banana and a frozen organic berry mix. I also freeze the bananas as the whole things taste great cold. Then, as has been mentioned, I mix plain greek yogurt with plain unflavored protein powder and some nuts, pumpkin seeds and craisins.
I will also use the plain to make a protein dutch apple baby. If anyone is interested in the recipe, I'll post it.0
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