"Stay away from dairy"
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TenderBlender667 wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »Warning: My opinion is based on things I've learned in holistic nutrition school, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Will do.
OP wasn't asking if dairy is bad for you. He was asking whether dairy has a known connection to anxiety disorders.
Anxiety CAN indirectly be linked to hormonal disorders and imbalances amplified by the consumption of large amounts of dairy.
can you actually provide scholarly journal articles with this information because my google scholar-fu is failing me...
Found two right off the bat:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19496976
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(01)91380-5/pdf
The first one does show that estrogen can be absorbed from the milk but does not show long term issues with that (it suggests that there may be problems but does not specifically link problems to the consumption of milk) and the second is hidden behind a paywall (although the abstract does say that their HYPOTHESIS is that consuming milk causes problems). Again, neither of these shows a link to anxiety disorders.
that was my take - also a study group of less than 20 is likely not going to yield valid/reliable/repeatable research results...1 -
Anxiety can be caused by a myriad of different problems including hormonal imbalances such as testosterone deficiency. A common symptom of it is anxiety. In the first link I posted, it does say that dairy decreases testosterone levels, which may play a factor in anxiety.
I'm even speaking from experience as I've been diagnosed with testosterone deficiency a few years back and I suffered from severe anxiety all my life.12 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »Warning: My opinion is based on things I've learned in holistic nutrition school, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Will do.
OP wasn't asking if dairy is bad for you. He was asking whether dairy has a known connection to anxiety disorders.
Anxiety CAN indirectly be linked to hormonal disorders and imbalances amplified by the consumption of large amounts of dairy.
can you actually provide scholarly journal articles with this information because my google scholar-fu is failing me...
Found two right off the bat:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19496976
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(01)91380-5/pdf
The first was a link to a study done on a whopping 18 people, and it showed that directly after consuming cows milk there was evidence of estrogen in the urine. And four out of the five women ovulated during the test and around the same time. Doesn't say they weren't going to ovulate anyway. Doesn't show any long term conclusions. Doesn't even mention anxiety.
The second I'm not able to see except for the hypothesis, which is that modern dairy products may be responsible for male reproductive disorders.
Thanks, but I'm going to continue taking this with a grain of salt and still not seeing how this applies to the OP.
If consuming dairy was enough to force ovulation, you'd think doctors focusing on women trying to get pregnant and having difficulty ovulating would be all over that connection and using it in their treatment plans.20 -
stevencloser wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »Warning: My opinion is based on things I've learned in holistic nutrition school, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Will do.
OP wasn't asking if dairy is bad for you. He was asking whether dairy has a known connection to anxiety disorders.
Anxiety CAN indirectly be linked to hormonal disorders and imbalances amplified by the consumption of large amounts of dairy.
So the next question is, "what is considered a large amount of dairy...?"
Googling the amounts of estrogen found in dairy vs. the human body told me that even your saliva has more estrogen in it than milk. So...
lol0 -
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There are six different synthetic hormones added to cows dairy in Canada. Now based on common sense, you really think that would have no implications on human health? Lol18
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TenderBlender667 wrote: »Anxiety can be caused by a myriad of different problems including hormonal imbalances such as testosterone deficiency. A common symptom of it is anxiety. In the first link I posted, it does say that dairy decreases testosterone levels, which may play a factor in anxiety.
I'm even speaking from experience as I've been diagnosed with testosterone deficiency a few years back and I suffered from severe anxiety all my life.
Your holistic nutrition school should have taught you about scope of practice. Unless you are a medical doctor or a registered dietitian, you should not be counseling people that specific foods can cause or cure medical conditions mentioning your education as an appeal to authority. Especially not strangers on the internet.
OP is under a doctor's care. He didn't ask for help with his condition, he asked if dairy has been linked to anxiety. One study of 18 people that showed a couple of guys may have experienced a temporary testosterone dip is not evidence of dairy being linked to anxiety disorders.16 -
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TenderBlender667 wrote: »There are six different synthetic hormones added to cows dairy in Canada. Now based on common sense, you really think that would have no implications on human health? Lol
Even if we could use "common sense" as a guide to make conclusions about human health (and we don't, we rely on studies and analysis of real-life results for a reason), why would we conclude that the implications for our health are negative? By your logic of "common sense," we could just as easily assume that the implications are positive.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »There are six different synthetic hormones added to cows dairy in Canada. Now based on common sense, you really think that would have no implications on human health? Lol
Even if we could use "common sense" as a guide to make conclusions about human health (and we don't, we rely on studies and analysis of real-life results for a reason), why would we conclude that the implications for our health are negative? By your logic of "common sense," we could just as easily assume that the implications are positive.
While I agree with this, the absence of data does not mean a problem does not exist. And erring on the side of caution is not necessarily a bad thing.
But assuming and/or erring on the side of caution should never be expressed as fact.0 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »Warning: My opinion is based on things I've learned in holistic nutrition school, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Dairy is said to be "bad" for you because cows naturally release a lot of hormones in their milk during pregnancy. These hormones (estrogen and progesterone) eventually end up in a person's bloodstream when they consume it. Since our environment is already loaded with tons of xenoestrogens, we actually want to avoid more going into our body to lower the risk of hormone imbalances and eventual problems down the road. Another important thing to note is the fact that most dairy has synthetic hormones added to it ON TOP of the naturally occuring hormones, which isn't that great for endocrine and reproductive health. If you still want a little dairy in your life, raw is the best if it's available in your city. Organic sheeps or goats milk isn't harmful on occasion either.
Ah, I was wondering if you had decided to go with that school. You never came back to that other thread.
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OP, I'd ask your doctor (call the office, maybe leave a message). Maybe it wasn't intended to relate to the anxiety issue, maybe he/she was thinking of something specific.
I would be interested in a link to any studies or articles about a connection between dairy and anxiety, as I've never heard of that but am open-minded to the possibility (or that it exists for some people). And no, that does not mean a study that shows that milk has hormones in it, which is not the same thing.6 -
jseams1234 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »Warning: My opinion is based on things I've learned in holistic nutrition school, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Dairy is said to be "bad" for you because cows naturally release a lot of hormones in their milk during pregnancy. These hormones (estrogen and progesterone) eventually end up in a person's bloodstream when they consume it. Since our environment is already loaded with tons of xenoestrogens, we actually want to avoid more going into our body to lower the risk of hormone imbalances and eventual problems down the road. Another important thing to note is the fact that most dairy has synthetic hormones added to it ON TOP of the naturally occuring hormones, which isn't that great for endocrine and reproductive health. If you still want a little dairy in your life, raw is the best if it's available in your city. Organic sheeps or goats milk isn't harmful on occasion either.
Ah, I was wondering if you had decided to go with that school. You never came back to that other thread.
Yeah, there was no turning back since it was too late for a tuition refund. Looks like I should really stay out of nutrition related threads on mfp if I don't want to be getting hate.12 -
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sheesh... i didnt mean to make this about my anxiety. I think havanaohalala is strong with anxiety. More power to her as well. *kitten* i wish i was like that.
For me i was thrown in a whirlwind with vertigo which i thought i was dying. I developed the anxiety disorder. It was horrible. After years of medication, i got my life back. But then i gained weight. I gained 30lbs from the 50 i lost back 3 years ago. the meds helped me gain the weight. Wasnt the only reason but certainly was one of the reasons. So i came off of it this past year slowly only for me to go back on.
Some people dont know how this works and how hard it is to fight your mind. Makes you think things are happening and they arent even real. I mean mind you i dont have it as bad as others so i cant complain. But it is a struggle.
Its fine peeps. Mind you i only asked as i was curious just on the dairy thing as i never heard it before. hahahah. No worries peeps. i appreciate all the words here.8 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »There are six different synthetic hormones added to cows dairy in Canada. Now based on common sense, you really think that would have no implications on human health? Lol
Even if we could use "common sense" as a guide to make conclusions about human health (and we don't, we rely on studies and analysis of real-life results for a reason), why would we conclude that the implications for our health are negative? By your logic of "common sense," we could just as easily assume that the implications are positive.
While I agree with this, the absence of data does not mean a problem does not exist. And erring on the side of caution is not necessarily a bad thing.
But assuming and/or erring on the side of caution should never be expressed as fact.
I completely agree. The best solution to an absence of data is to gather data (if possible). This isn't always possible. I don't have a problem with people erring on the side of caution (I do this with some things myself), it's the expressing it as fact that is a problem.
And when we're using "common sense" instead of actual information in an argument, I think it's helpful to be clear about that. "Common sense" is sometimes right, but it's sometimes very wrong -- especially with more complex situations (like, for example, how the human body works or how health problems are caused).5 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »Warning: My opinion is based on things I've learned in holistic nutrition school, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Dairy is said to be "bad" for you because cows naturally release a lot of hormones in their milk during pregnancy. These hormones (estrogen and progesterone) eventually end up in a person's bloodstream when they consume it. Since our environment is already loaded with tons of xenoestrogens, we actually want to avoid more going into our body to lower the risk of hormone imbalances and eventual problems down the road. Another important thing to note is the fact that most dairy has synthetic hormones added to it ON TOP of the naturally occuring hormones, which isn't that great for endocrine and reproductive health. If you still want a little dairy in your life, raw is the best if it's available in your city. Organic sheeps or goats milk isn't harmful on occasion either.
Ah, I was wondering if you had decided to go with that school. You never came back to that other thread.
Yeah, there was no turning back since it was too late for a tuition refund. Looks like I should really stay out of nutrition related threads on mfp if I don't want to be getting hate.
or actually make sure what you are presenting is backed by science and don't just post links to articles - understand what its saying and how results can be extrapolated (if possible) to a wider population (validity); look at how the studies are constructed and repeatability (reliability)....research methods 10114 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »Warning: My opinion is based on things I've learned in holistic nutrition school, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Dairy is said to be "bad" for you because cows naturally release a lot of hormones in their milk during pregnancy. These hormones (estrogen and progesterone) eventually end up in a person's bloodstream when they consume it. Since our environment is already loaded with tons of xenoestrogens, we actually want to avoid more going into our body to lower the risk of hormone imbalances and eventual problems down the road. Another important thing to note is the fact that most dairy has synthetic hormones added to it ON TOP of the naturally occuring hormones, which isn't that great for endocrine and reproductive health. If you still want a little dairy in your life, raw is the best if it's available in your city. Organic sheeps or goats milk isn't harmful on occasion either.
Ah, I was wondering if you had decided to go with that school. You never came back to that other thread.
Yeah, there was no turning back since it was too late for a tuition refund. Looks like I should really stay out of nutrition related threads on mfp if I don't want to be getting hate.
This is called the "sunk cost fallacy." Pursuing an unhelpful course of study just because you can't get a refund is throwing time after money. It doesn't resolve the situation, you're just doubly robbed.22 -
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TenderBlender667 wrote: »which may play a factor in...
May, might, linked, correlated, associated etc...3 -
And now we are arguing the execution of puns....
This dumpster fire needs extinguished10 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »Warning: My opinion is based on things I've learned in holistic nutrition school, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Dairy is said to be "bad" for you because cows naturally release a lot of hormones in their milk during pregnancy. These hormones (estrogen and progesterone) eventually end up in a person's bloodstream when they consume it. Since our environment is already loaded with tons of xenoestrogens, we actually want to avoid more going into our body to lower the risk of hormone imbalances and eventual problems down the road. Another important thing to note is the fact that most dairy has synthetic hormones added to it ON TOP of the naturally occuring hormones, which isn't that great for endocrine and reproductive health. If you still want a little dairy in your life, raw is the best if it's available in your city. Organic sheeps or goats milk isn't harmful on occasion either.
I'm not a dairy farmer, but I'm pretty sure cows give milk after they give birth, not while they're pregnant (OK, maybe if they get pregnant again while they still have an unweaned calf -- but I don't think that's the way they run things in dairy farming).4 -
raven56706 wrote: »sheesh... i didnt mean to make this about my anxiety. I think havanaohalala is strong with anxiety. More power to her as well. *kitten* i wish i was like that.
For me i was thrown in a whirlwind with vertigo which i thought i was dying. I developed the anxiety disorder. It was horrible. After years of medication, i got my life back. But then i gained weight. I gained 30lbs from the 50 i lost back 3 years ago. the meds helped me gain the weight. Wasnt the only reason but certainly was one of the reasons. So i came off of it this past year slowly only for me to go back on.
Some people dont know how this works and how hard it is to fight your mind. Makes you think things are happening and they arent even real. I mean mind you i dont have it as bad as others so i cant complain. But it is a struggle.
Its fine peeps. Mind you i only asked as i was curious just on the dairy thing as i never heard it before. hahahah. No worries peeps. i appreciate all the words here.
Was this a new doctor, or one who was familiar with your history? Did you describe your anxiety symptoms to the doctor just in physical terms, or did you make clear that you were having emotional/psychiatric symptoms? I'm just wondering if the doctor maybe wasn't so much saying "stop consuming dairy to fix your anxiety" and "try cutting out dairy to see if it will resolve these physical symptoms."0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I'm just wondering if the doctor maybe wasn't so much saying "stop consuming dairy to fix your anxiety" and "try cutting out dairy to see if it will resolve these physical symptoms."
And why not? Where is the harm in giving it a try. If there is no change after a suitable period of being dairy free then add dairy back and no harm, no foul. But what if it does help? No way to really know except to give it a go.0 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »Warning: My opinion is based on things I've learned in holistic nutrition school, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Dairy is said to be "bad" for you because cows naturally release a lot of hormones in their milk during pregnancy. These hormones (estrogen and progesterone) eventually end up in a person's bloodstream when they consume it. Since our environment is already loaded with tons of xenoestrogens, we actually want to avoid more going into our body to lower the risk of hormone imbalances and eventual problems down the road. Another important thing to note is the fact that most dairy has synthetic hormones added to it ON TOP of the naturally occuring hormones, which isn't that great for endocrine and reproductive health. If you still want a little dairy in your life, raw is the best if it's available in your city. Organic sheeps or goats milk isn't harmful on occasion either.
Ah, I was wondering if you had decided to go with that school. You never came back to that other thread.
Yeah, there was no turning back since it was too late for a tuition refund. Looks like I should really stay out of nutrition related threads on mfp if I don't want to be getting hate.
No, by all means stay. Perhaps you can learn something true - what you "learned" in school is nonsense.
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Not a spoiler...but ... if you've seen the movie you know.
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »Warning: My opinion is based on things I've learned in holistic nutrition school, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Dairy is said to be "bad" for you because cows naturally release a lot of hormones in their milk during pregnancy. These hormones (estrogen and progesterone) eventually end up in a person's bloodstream when they consume it. Since our environment is already loaded with tons of xenoestrogens, we actually want to avoid more going into our body to lower the risk of hormone imbalances and eventual problems down the road. Another important thing to note is the fact that most dairy has synthetic hormones added to it ON TOP of the naturally occuring hormones, which isn't that great for endocrine and reproductive health. If you still want a little dairy in your life, raw is the best if it's available in your city. Organic sheeps or goats milk isn't harmful on occasion either.
I'm not a dairy farmer, but I'm pretty sure cows give milk after they give birth, not while they're pregnant (OK, maybe if they get pregnant again while they still have an unweaned calf -- but I don't think that's the way they run things in dairy farming).
Its dairy. They give birth, never nurse their own babies, go directly to producing milk for us, and when they cycle they are bred again. Like humans, they can still produce milk while pregnant as long as there is a demand and they are eating enough calories.-3 -
Dairy is full of hormones to grow a small baby calf into a huge, monstrosity of a cow. It is full of pus, and most dairy cows are anxious and are treated awfully.
You are what you eat, and it makes complete sense that one could be anxious after consuming dairy.
Dairy is scary and it increases your risk for various types of cancer, as well.27 -
Dairy is full of hormones to grow a small baby calf into a huge, monstrosity of a cow. It is full of pus, and most dairy cows are anxious and are treated awfully.
You are what you eat, and it makes complete sense that one could be anxious after consuming dairy.
Dairy is scary and it increases your risk for various types of cancer, as well.
^ No to each and every word of all that false vegan propaganda. I already posted a link to research about the safety of dairy above, I won't bother reposting it.
And by that line of reasoning, almond milk is only for baby almonds and it's to grow a baby almond into a huge monstrosity of a tree. It's full of fat and almonds don't have brains. So if you are what you eat, it makes complete sense that one would be fat and wouldn't have a brain after consuming almond milk.
See how that works?22 -
Dairy is full of hormones to grow a small baby calf into a huge, monstrosity of a cow. It is full of pus, and most dairy cows are anxious and are treated awfully.
You are what you eat, and it makes complete sense that one could be anxious after consuming dairy.
Dairy is scary and it increases your risk for various types of cancer, as well.
So what do you put on your cereal? Or do you use some soy or other milk?
(although, I am logging out and don't really care about the answer, since we've beat this dead horse a thousand times already.)0
This discussion has been closed.
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