Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Keto means not counting calories
Options
Replies
-
GaleHawkins wrote: »
Do you only consume one macro? You make reference to the McDonald's burgers you eat. Don't they have at least 2 macros? Protein and fat. And, if you have a burger bun or lettuce or tomato, those would be carbs.GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@kpk54 sorry that did not work out longer term in your case. Do you think the MCT oil was a factor in it stop working when it was working before? MTC oil wants to make me gag when nothing hardly makes me gag so I have given my stock away. Normally when I have a bad reaction to a food it is because it is bad for me. Now the smell of McDonald's fries makes me want to gag.
No. I added the MCT Oil AFTER the regular ketogenic diet quit working which was during the last 4 or 5 months. Adding MCT neither helped nor hindered so far as involuntary movement.
I went through a few bottles and finally landed on 1 that had "no taste" (as MCT Oil ads generally claim). But yes, the 1st couple brands I tried had a "taste" and it was not pleasant.
Thanks for the details. Since I do 3+ tablespoons of coconut oil in my first cup of coffee each morning and eat a 2+ pound of coconut flakes weekly I am going to call my level of MCT oil from those sources enough.
Keto is not a cure for anything but for some reason it has really addressed my joint pain, IBS, cataract formation and mental clarity, etc. For me keto/low carb high fat is not a diet but an eating life style in my case since it addressed my cravings so now I can eat all that I want of my macro and still maintain my weight loss. Thanks again for your realistic take of keto in your case. I do hope you find some help with your condition. My naturally fused spine (from the Ankylosing Spondylitis) still is a major limitation but it is starting to move more year by year. The main thing most of my pain is gone on keto thankfully. I am lucky it seems that keto means not counting calories in my case .
So, you consume 3 macros just like most of us. Don't you? Which one is "your" macro. And why would it be yours? Sounds absurd on the face of it.
@mmapags that is a great question that is basic to any Way Of Eating (WOE). My Fitness Pal does a good job in my view of covering your and the other keto questions of other readers of this thread. I use the MFP keto macro suggestions in their link below.
Is the Ketogenic Diet Safe for Weight Loss?
blog.myfitnesspal.com/ketogenic-diet-safe-weight-loss/
"ADJUST YOUR MACROS
To achieve nutritional ketosis, adjust your MyFitnessPal macronutrient goals to achieve a daily intake of 70–75% fat, 15–20% protein and 5–10% calories from carbohydrates."
"KNOW IT’S NOT A QUICK FIX
As with any weight-loss plan, the goal is not just to lose weight but also to keep it off. Before you transition to a ketogenic way of eating, ask yourself whether you can make this a long-term lifestyle change and not just a quick fix that could lead to a cycle of yo-yo dieting.
THE BOTTOM LINE
When followed properly, ketogenic diets have been shown to be safe and effective for weight loss and may provide other health benefits including better blood sugar control, a decrease in inflammation and improved triglyceride and HDL counts. However, in order to achieve ketosis, one must consider this a long-term lifestyle change and follow a very specific eating plan to maintain weight loss over time. As always, consult your doctor or a registered dietitian before making any major dietary changes."
Which one of my questions is a great one? I asked multiple questions, none of which you answered directly. Or at all really. You seem to just talk in incoherent circles.8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
Do you only consume one macro? You make reference to the McDonald's burgers you eat. Don't they have at least 2 macros? Protein and fat. And, if you have a burger bun or lettuce or tomato, those would be carbs.GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@kpk54 sorry that did not work out longer term in your case. Do you think the MCT oil was a factor in it stop working when it was working before? MTC oil wants to make me gag when nothing hardly makes me gag so I have given my stock away. Normally when I have a bad reaction to a food it is because it is bad for me. Now the smell of McDonald's fries makes me want to gag.
No. I added the MCT Oil AFTER the regular ketogenic diet quit working which was during the last 4 or 5 months. Adding MCT neither helped nor hindered so far as involuntary movement.
I went through a few bottles and finally landed on 1 that had "no taste" (as MCT Oil ads generally claim). But yes, the 1st couple brands I tried had a "taste" and it was not pleasant.
Thanks for the details. Since I do 3+ tablespoons of coconut oil in my first cup of coffee each morning and eat a 2+ pound of coconut flakes weekly I am going to call my level of MCT oil from those sources enough.
Keto is not a cure for anything but for some reason it has really addressed my joint pain, IBS, cataract formation and mental clarity, etc. For me keto/low carb high fat is not a diet but an eating life style in my case since it addressed my cravings so now I can eat all that I want of my macro and still maintain my weight loss. Thanks again for your realistic take of keto in your case. I do hope you find some help with your condition. My naturally fused spine (from the Ankylosing Spondylitis) still is a major limitation but it is starting to move more year by year. The main thing most of my pain is gone on keto thankfully. I am lucky it seems that keto means not counting calories in my case .
So, you consume 3 macros just like most of us. Don't you? Which one is "your" macro. And why would it be yours? Sounds absurd on the face of it.
@mmapags that is a great question that is basic to any Way Of Eating (WOE). My Fitness Pal does a good job in my view of covering your and the other keto questions of other readers of this thread. I use the MFP keto macro suggestions in their link below.
Is the Ketogenic Diet Safe for Weight Loss?
blog.myfitnesspal.com/ketogenic-diet-safe-weight-loss/
"ADJUST YOUR MACROS
To achieve nutritional ketosis, adjust your MyFitnessPal macronutrient goals to achieve a daily intake of 70–75% fat, 15–20% protein and 5–10% calories from carbohydrates."
"KNOW IT’S NOT A QUICK FIX
As with any weight-loss plan, the goal is not just to lose weight but also to keep it off. Before you transition to a ketogenic way of eating, ask yourself whether you can make this a long-term lifestyle change and not just a quick fix that could lead to a cycle of yo-yo dieting.
THE BOTTOM LINE
When followed properly, ketogenic diets have been shown to be safe and effective for weight loss and may provide other health benefits including better blood sugar control, a decrease in inflammation and improved triglyceride and HDL counts. However, in order to achieve ketosis, one must consider this a long-term lifestyle change and follow a very specific eating plan to maintain weight loss over time. As always, consult your doctor or a registered dietitian before making any major dietary changes."
Which one of my questions is a great one? I asked multiple questions, none of which you answered directly. Or at all really. You seem to just talk in incoherent circles.
So, you consume 3 macros just like most of us. Don't you?6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Do you only consume one macro? You make reference to the McDonald's burgers you eat. Don't they have at least 2 macros? Protein and fat. And, if you have a burger bun or lettuce or tomato, those would be carbs.GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@kpk54 sorry that did not work out longer term in your case. Do you think the MCT oil was a factor in it stop working when it was working before? MTC oil wants to make me gag when nothing hardly makes me gag so I have given my stock away. Normally when I have a bad reaction to a food it is because it is bad for me. Now the smell of McDonald's fries makes me want to gag.
No. I added the MCT Oil AFTER the regular ketogenic diet quit working which was during the last 4 or 5 months. Adding MCT neither helped nor hindered so far as involuntary movement.
I went through a few bottles and finally landed on 1 that had "no taste" (as MCT Oil ads generally claim). But yes, the 1st couple brands I tried had a "taste" and it was not pleasant.
Thanks for the details. Since I do 3+ tablespoons of coconut oil in my first cup of coffee each morning and eat a 2+ pound of coconut flakes weekly I am going to call my level of MCT oil from those sources enough.
Keto is not a cure for anything but for some reason it has really addressed my joint pain, IBS, cataract formation and mental clarity, etc. For me keto/low carb high fat is not a diet but an eating life style in my case since it addressed my cravings so now I can eat all that I want of my macro and still maintain my weight loss. Thanks again for your realistic take of keto in your case. I do hope you find some help with your condition. My naturally fused spine (from the Ankylosing Spondylitis) still is a major limitation but it is starting to move more year by year. The main thing most of my pain is gone on keto thankfully. I am lucky it seems that keto means not counting calories in my case .
So, you consume 3 macros just like most of us. Don't you? Which one is "your" macro. And why would it be yours? Sounds absurd on the face of it.
@mmapags that is a great question that is basic to any Way Of Eating (WOE). My Fitness Pal does a good job in my view of covering your and the other keto questions of other readers of this thread. I use the MFP keto macro suggestions in their link below.
Is the Ketogenic Diet Safe for Weight Loss?
blog.myfitnesspal.com/ketogenic-diet-safe-weight-loss/
"ADJUST YOUR MACROS
To achieve nutritional ketosis, adjust your MyFitnessPal macronutrient goals to achieve a daily intake of 70–75% fat, 15–20% protein and 5–10% calories from carbohydrates."
"KNOW IT’S NOT A QUICK FIX
As with any weight-loss plan, the goal is not just to lose weight but also to keep it off. Before you transition to a ketogenic way of eating, ask yourself whether you can make this a long-term lifestyle change and not just a quick fix that could lead to a cycle of yo-yo dieting.
THE BOTTOM LINE
When followed properly, ketogenic diets have been shown to be safe and effective for weight loss and may provide other health benefits including better blood sugar control, a decrease in inflammation and improved triglyceride and HDL counts. However, in order to achieve ketosis, one must consider this a long-term lifestyle change and follow a very specific eating plan to maintain weight loss over time. As always, consult your doctor or a registered dietitian before making any major dietary changes."
Which one of my questions is a great one? I asked multiple questions, none of which you answered directly. Or at all really. You seem to just talk in incoherent circles.
So, you consume 3 macros just like most of us. Don't you?
Like most of us? I thought you only consumed one macro...which is what the original question was.6 -
PikaJoyJoy wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Do you only consume one macro? You make reference to the McDonald's burgers you eat. Don't they have at least 2 macros? Protein and fat. And, if you have a burger bun or lettuce or tomato, those would be carbs.GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@kpk54 sorry that did not work out longer term in your case. Do you think the MCT oil was a factor in it stop working when it was working before? MTC oil wants to make me gag when nothing hardly makes me gag so I have given my stock away. Normally when I have a bad reaction to a food it is because it is bad for me. Now the smell of McDonald's fries makes me want to gag.
No. I added the MCT Oil AFTER the regular ketogenic diet quit working which was during the last 4 or 5 months. Adding MCT neither helped nor hindered so far as involuntary movement.
I went through a few bottles and finally landed on 1 that had "no taste" (as MCT Oil ads generally claim). But yes, the 1st couple brands I tried had a "taste" and it was not pleasant.
Thanks for the details. Since I do 3+ tablespoons of coconut oil in my first cup of coffee each morning and eat a 2+ pound of coconut flakes weekly I am going to call my level of MCT oil from those sources enough.
Keto is not a cure for anything but for some reason it has really addressed my joint pain, IBS, cataract formation and mental clarity, etc. For me keto/low carb high fat is not a diet but an eating life style in my case since it addressed my cravings so now I can eat all that I want of my macro and still maintain my weight loss. Thanks again for your realistic take of keto in your case. I do hope you find some help with your condition. My naturally fused spine (from the Ankylosing Spondylitis) still is a major limitation but it is starting to move more year by year. The main thing most of my pain is gone on keto thankfully. I am lucky it seems that keto means not counting calories in my case .
So, you consume 3 macros just like most of us. Don't you? Which one is "your" macro. And why would it be yours? Sounds absurd on the face of it.
@mmapags that is a great question that is basic to any Way Of Eating (WOE). My Fitness Pal does a good job in my view of covering your and the other keto questions of other readers of this thread. I use the MFP keto macro suggestions in their link below.
Is the Ketogenic Diet Safe for Weight Loss?
blog.myfitnesspal.com/ketogenic-diet-safe-weight-loss/
"ADJUST YOUR MACROS
To achieve nutritional ketosis, adjust your MyFitnessPal macronutrient goals to achieve a daily intake of 70–75% fat, 15–20% protein and 5–10% calories from carbohydrates."
"KNOW IT’S NOT A QUICK FIX
As with any weight-loss plan, the goal is not just to lose weight but also to keep it off. Before you transition to a ketogenic way of eating, ask yourself whether you can make this a long-term lifestyle change and not just a quick fix that could lead to a cycle of yo-yo dieting.
THE BOTTOM LINE
When followed properly, ketogenic diets have been shown to be safe and effective for weight loss and may provide other health benefits including better blood sugar control, a decrease in inflammation and improved triglyceride and HDL counts. However, in order to achieve ketosis, one must consider this a long-term lifestyle change and follow a very specific eating plan to maintain weight loss over time. As always, consult your doctor or a registered dietitian before making any major dietary changes."
Which one of my questions is a great one? I asked multiple questions, none of which you answered directly. Or at all really. You seem to just talk in incoherent circles.
So, you consume 3 macros just like most of us. Don't you?
Like most of us? I thought you only consumed one macro...which is what the original question was.
Vintage Feline cleared up my missing "s" issue thankfully. 0 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »notreallychris wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
Your experience with keto does not make it a fact for everyone. CICO is how you're losing weight. Whether you think it is or not.
I fortunately don't have to prove to you what I already know. And I'm certainly not alone in my ketogenic journey. It's NOT CICO, but you are free to believe anything you like.
@Losinandmovin , as someone who follows a Keto WOE, it disappoints me to see someone so badly representing Keto. It's not only science, it's common sense. The body either uses energy or stores energy. If you put too much energy in (ie, you put in more energy than your body uses) the rest of the energy will be stored and will cause weight gain. That's CICO, and that happens whatever WOE you follow, Keto included. Please, please, put your thinking cap on and properly reflect on this. What you are saying is ridiculous and reflects very poorly on the Keto community.
Now, I will say that for some reason I do tend to lose more quickly with Keto than with only calorie counting, but that simply indicates that for some reason I am more sensitive to carbs. It does NOT negate the simple fact of life that is CICO.
There are a variety of reasons why you could lose faster on keto; greater compliance (satiated by fat vs carbs), more energy (can increase NEAT and TEA), reduced calorie levels naturally, or addressing underlying medical concerns.
All of these people highly under rate and conflate their experience with trying to disprove CICO. Unfortunately, those same people never control variables... Its one sweeping change to the next.
7 -
baconslave wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Also, be sure you don't eat too much protein on keto or it will be converted to glucose and you won't be in ketosis anymore.
well...
That's gluconeogenesis. Which is happening all the time in the body regarding most (but not all) amino acids at a mostly fixed rate, high protein or not. Protein's effect on blood sugar and insulin is a much slower process than carbohydrates so it's not going to act like Hershey's would. We're talking over hours and hours elapsed time. Protein can and does decrease ketone production for a period. And did you know that the fat can be turned into glucose as well? If it's needed. Both are demand-driven. And both aren't preferential pathways as they are "expensive." Used if necessary, but not preferred.
So can protein (and I mean A LOT of protein) kick you out of ketosis? Sure it can.
The bigger question is: Does that matter? A definite "maybe."
If your goal is a medically therapeutic ketogenic diet. Absolutely yes.
If you are a Type 1 diabetic. Absolutely does matter.
For a Type 2 diabetic? Maybe. However getting adequate protein is going to mean more than the small increase in glucose, since T2s still have insulin/pancreas function. And if they are eating low-carb, too, again, gluconeogenesis is not like you just ate a bag of Skittles. This is a slow result on blood glucose and insulin. This conversion to glucose is going to be better than the carbohydrate hit.
For weight loss or exercise performance, the answer is another maybe. Like with T2, adequate protein is going to trump this. Weight loss cannibalizes lbm from any diet. You're going to want to offset or slow that down as much as possible through more than enough protein and resistance training. Once keto-folk become fat-adapted, being in-and-out of ketosis isn't a deal. This person is not required to be constantly in ketosis. Remember, ketosis is not required for weight loss. In is in. And when you're out due to excess carbs or protein, you'll shortly burn through that and be back in again. The metabolic machinery is already there once fat-adapted.
So does higher protein matter? Maybe not, depending on who you are and why you are eating ketogenically.
Others can speak better to the athletic performance angle than I. But I imagine it's not all that different. The body is still going to need a lot of protein for basic optimal function. And again, this need trumps ketosis.
Another question: what is too much protein? That depends on height, weight, lbm, activity level and medical history.
Some people's answers to this will be really different than others.
Some say optimal protein is .8-1.2 g per kg of lbm. Some say .8-1g per lb of ideal bodyweight. There are other recommedations as well.
I think the truth is in there somewhere dependent upon your health and goals.
To me it's important to focus more on: am I getting enough?
Of course all these arguments break down in the face of CKD.
Complicated discussion, but warranted.
Short answer: Keto just to lose weight? Don't worry about too much protein, IMO. Worry about getting enough.
Here are a couple keto-friendly, layperson-minded links that go into more explanation. Their resources also provide a bit more of a rabbit-hole if you have the time.
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html
http://ketogains.com/2016/04/gluconeogenesis-wont-kick-you-out-ketosis/
Interesting fact about GNG, roughly 60% comes from protein.
3 -
Just want to pop in and thank @baconslave for posting here. Your posts are an interesting read. I've no desire to go Keto, but it's nice to see it discussed in a rational way.
Thanks9 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Just want to pop in and thank @baconslave for posting here. Your posts are an interesting read. I've no desire to go Keto, but it's nice to see it discussed in a rational way.
Thanks
:drinker:3
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392K Introduce Yourself
- 43.6K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 401 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 992 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions