October 2018 Monthly Running Challenge
Replies
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ContraryMaryMary wrote: »I thought I'd just check my schedule for next year to see when I have events... Seems I've entered more than a few already! Two half marathons already entered, one definitely to enter (as soon as entries open) and another on the radar... Something happened to my 'two halfs a year' thing. And then there's the Xterra Series that I don't have 2019 dates for yet.
]
Upcoming events
17 November, Xterra Trail Challenge Waihi 20.5km
8 December, West Coaster trail relay (10km leg)
Jan 20, Albany Lakes Summer Series 10k
Feb 24, Albany Lakes Summer Series 10k
Mar 3, Rotorua Off Road Half Marathon (This just looks amazing!)
Mar 24, Albany Lakes Summer Series 10k
Apr 21, Auckland Run Series 10k
May 11, St Clair Vineyard Half Marathon (Girls' trip - we may be more focused on the wine!)
May 12, Auckland Run Series 10k (Date clash - will still be in Marlborough so won't run this one)
Jun 2, Auckland Run Series 10k
Jun 23, Auckland Run Series 10k
Jul 14, Auckland Run Series 10k
Aug 4, Auckland Run Series Half ($100 for 5 10k's and a half, what a bargain!)
Aug 24, Mount Maunganui Half Marathon (Entry transferred from 2018 DNS)
Oct 20, Auckland Half Marathon (It's my local!)
Nov 16, kerikeri half
@ContraryMaryMary Added one in for you... Lol
ETA ohhh that St Claire vineyard one is supposed to be awesome!2 -
@ContraryMaryMary Added one in for you... Lol
ETA ohhh that St Claire vineyard one is supposed to be awesome!
I'm keen...
STOP WITH THE ENABLING!!!4 -
ContraryMaryMary wrote: »@ContraryMaryMary Added one in for you... Lol
ETA ohhh that St Claire vineyard one is supposed to be awesome!
I'm keen...
STOP WITH THE ENABLING!!!
LOL. Should I add in the Hokianga Half Marathon in late march/April... Its only a rhr drive away. That's my local, and I'm actually hoping to run it this year3 -
@Avidkeo guess what I just did!!!!
Yep, 7km in the rain, I'm officially a badass (a slow badass but a badass nonetheless )
As it got light and I could see how wet and windy it was outside, I looked at the treadmill and the treadmill looked stonily back at me. I looked at the ironing board and pile of ironing underneath it. I promised my husband faithfully (with my fingers crossed behind my back just in case) that of course I wouldn't be so insane as to go out and run in that nasty weather when I have a perfectly good treadmill we spent a small fortune on that I could use instead. I waited for him to go to work. I waved my daughter off to school. I waved my middle finger at the treadmill, grabbed my jacket and headed out the door.
t was windy and raining lightly the whole time, with a few minutes of heavier rain a couple of times. I learned a lot today! Main notes:
* I don't mind the feel of it raining on my face and head. I HATE the feeling of a small, plasticky jacket hood moving about on my head while I run. That lasted all of 10 seconds.
* Spanish drivers are total azzholes and they get worse when it rains. Avoid underpasses where water gathers next to the pavements at all costs unless you want to shower en-route.
* The pavements (and painted bike path) in this town become slippery deathtraps when wet. Avoid at all costs unless you want to become famous for inventing a new form of triathlon involving running, figure skating and hobbling. Also unless you're willing to risk breaking a leg.
* Running along the almost deserted seafront in the wind and rain watching the waves roll and singing out loud is very liberating.
* Sandwich bag works to keep mobile phone dry, but I should probably check it for holes before setting off.
* Rain jacket pockets with no zips do not mean I don't need to wear my belt for keys and ID. Keys can fly out of inner pocket even when jacket is zipped up, resulting in digging around in the mud looking for keys.
* Rain jacket is great when it's raining properly, but a little sauna like mid-run when it's not raining very hard. Jacket zip is hard to handle with cold wet fingers, resulting in a need to use teeth.
* Even if it's raining, I still need water. In fact, I need more water than usual, probably due to above-mentioned sauna effect.
* It took 5km for the damp to reach my toes. Having wet toes bothered me briefly at km 6, but then passed proving once I get used to the feeling it's not too bad. In fact I was surprised how wet my socks were when I took them off.
There were probably more, but I have coffee now and can't remember them :-)
Well on track to reach stretch goal with tomorrow's scheduled 5 kilometres. Yay!
2/10: 6km
3/10: 3km
4/10: 6km
7/10: 8.5km
9/10: 6.5km
10/10: 3km
11/10: 6km
14/10: 9km
16/10: 6.5km
17/10: 3km
19/10: 6.5km
21/10: 10km
23/10: 7km
24/10: 3km
26/10: 6.5km
28/10: 5km race
30/10: 7km
October goal: 90km, stretch goal: 105km. Completed so far: 102.5km16 -
eleanorhawkins wrote: »@Avidkeo guess what I just did!!!!
Yep, 7km in the rain, I'm officially a badass (a slow badass but a badass nonetheless )
As it got light and I could see how wet and windy it was outside, I looked at the treadmill and the treadmill looked stonily back at me. I looked at the ironing board and pile of ironing underneath it. I promised my husband faithfully (with my fingers crossed behind my back just in case) that of course I wouldn't be so insane as to go out and run in that nasty weather when I have a perfectly good treadmill we spent a small fortune on that I could use instead. I waited for him to go to work. I waved my daughter off to school. I waved my middle finger at the treadmill, grabbed my jacket and headed out the door.
t was windy and raining lightly the whole time, with a few minutes of heavier rain a couple of times. I learned a lot today! Main notes:
* I don't mind the feel of it raining on my face and head. I HATE the feeling of a small, plasticky jacket hood moving about on my head while I run. That lasted all of 10 seconds.
* Spanish drivers are total azzholes and they get worse when it rains. Avoid underpasses where water gathers next to the pavements at all costs unless you want to shower en-route.
* The pavements (and painted bike path) in this town become slippery deathtraps when wet. Avoid at all costs unless you want to become famous for inventing a new form of triathlon involving running, figure skating and hobbling. Also unless you're willing to risk breaking a leg.
* Running along the almost deserted seafront in the wind and rain watching the waves roll and singing out loud is very liberating.
* Sandwich bag works to keep mobile phone dry, but I should probably check it for holes before setting off.
* Rain jacket pockets with no zips do not mean I don't need to wear my belt for keys and ID. Keys can fly out of inner pocket even when jacket is zipped up, resulting in digging around in the mud looking for keys.
* Rain jacket is great when it's raining properly, but a little sauna like mid-run when it's not raining very hard. Jacket zip is hard to handle with cold wet fingers, resulting in a need to use teeth.
* Even if it's raining, I still need water. In fact, I need more water than usual, probably due to above-mentioned sauna effect.
* It took 5km for the damp to reach my toes. Having wet toes bothered me briefly at km 6, but then passed proving once I get used to the feeling it's not too bad. In fact I was surprised how wet my socks were when I took them off.
There were probably more, but I have coffee now and can't remember them :-)
Well on track to reach stretch goal with tomorrow's scheduled 5 kilometres. Yay!
Sounds like you were a royal mess when you got back
One note, you want to make sure you are wearing good socks in the rain. Old socks, even if they were once top of the line, will be much more likely to cause blisters in the rain.
4 -
@7lenny7 how about this one...
(originally posted in the FB group by @_nikkiwolf_ )For our ultra runners: No pre-defined time or distance. Just a tiny loop of 4.17 miles that you have 1 hour to complete. But you have to do it every hour, until everyone else has given up. Sounds fun, right?
https://www.rei.com/blog/run/the-most-punishing-running-race-youve-never-heard-of5 -
@PastorVincent lol yes I was, but I was in one piece and the mud and sweat washed off ok
Luckily I haven't been running long enough for my socks to be old, but thanks for the pointer I'll bear that in mind. I do have a pair of super duper high tech anti-blister ankle-supporting socks I bought last month, so will try to use those when it's raining just in case.6 -
1... Man y'all are chatty
2... @AprilRN10 I find cycling to be a good workout. It'll hold some of your cardio fitness and use some lesser trained running muscles, maybe until you heal up?
3... @garygse Your a bad influence. I had pizza. Why cant i just eun in the middle of the night like you, whys it gotta be the 'za? Oh i guess. fat kid in me is has the stick*.
4.. I'm serious about sharing the monthly love here and dangling the coveted MFP running challenge thread starter offer. Todays a good day to get it going- I'll think of a monthly question.
5. My cat loves me too much. And the mornings are too short before work. I just awoke from a strange dream where i was in school, had to present a final 1 hour speech at 915am which evolved into a job interview/talk and couldnt find my clothes, my speech notes, or the broom- idk the porch was dirty and i wanted to sweep it. I also was in undies. The phone rings and its a telephone presentation. I wing it and nailed it. Hm, do sleepy wins count? I say they do. Your dumb brain doesn't know the difference right? an experience is an experience. It just won't get me that promotion, the new clothes arent there and my hair is still my hair. Am i the only one that consistently dreams i look different? I'm never this me.
6. Who's running today? 😄
* Didn't get the stick? I'm just a monkey, not the monkey with the stick. I don't make or enforce the rules, just do what I'm told. My coworkers like stickless monkey. Stickless monkey resorts to poo flinging. 🤔😄🤣 Don't mess wit da monkey!5 -
I just can't stop talking about how great the weather is here in Orlando!
Usually Halloween is still really hot but we've had incredible weather the past few days. So nice for running!
5 miles this morning and feeling great.
10/1 - Transform App- Upper body
10/2 - 4 miles + TA W3 Legs
10/3 - 4.5 miles + TA W4 Upper Body
10/4 - TA W4 Legs
10/5 - 4.5 miles + TA W4 Upper
10/6 - 4 miles in Tampa
10/7 - rest day
10/8 - 4 miles + Transform - Arms/Back
10/9 - Transform App - Legs/Glutes
10/10 - 3 miles
10/11 - Transform App - Back/Arms
10/12 - tried to run but glute pain, walked 2 miles
10/13 - 4 miles + transform upper body
10/14 - 4 miles!
10/15 - Transform App - chest, arms
10/16 - 4.5 miles + transform app - legs!
10/17 - 4 miles + transform app - arms
10/18 - 4 miles + transform app - legs!
10/18 - transform app - arms
10/19 - transformApp Arms
10/20 - 4.5 miles
10/21 - 3 miles + transform App Arms
10/22 - REST
10/23 - transform app legs
10/24 - 4.5 miles + transform app - back/chest
10/25 - 4 miles + transform app - legs
10/26 - 3 miles + transform app upper body
10/27 - 44 miles cycling
10/28 - REST
10/29 - 5 miles + transform app - arms/chest
10/30 - 5 miles + tbd
9 -
might get out tonight, might clean. seems i picked up a little cold
this was not my month. looking forward to next month.
@PastorVincent i like the look of that race.4 -
BruinsGal_91 wrote: »@katharmonic Respect! I'm still debating whether to bite the bullet and train for a marathon. I've got five halfs under my belt and have always said that's as far as I'm willing to go, but there's a little nagging voice in my head trying to persuade me to go for the full 26.2.
@Bruinsgal1 I have the same nagging voice - fortunately he's not very loud. I enjoy my trail running to much and my longest run so far has been a 36k - 7 Peaks Challenge.
@ContraryMaryMary I can so relate to this.ContraryMaryMary wrote: »... Something happened to my 'two halfs a year' thing. And then there's the Xterra Series that I don't have 2019 dates for yet.
I blame you.
All of you!
@eleanorhawkins So enjoyed your 7km in the rain - badass writeup.
- giving the finger salute to the dreadmill
- all non-running drivers are azzholes
- when pavement-cement roads get rained on the oil and rubber bits lift off the surface and float on a thin layer of water which is why cars go Hydroplaning and runners ( bikers ) learn a new dance move. Bike lane paint was designed by a saddist.
- I put a safety pin inside my non-zipper pockets and hook my keys up so they can' fly away
- add zipper pulls to make it easier to find and adjust - something most winter - snow runners do
- Coffee ( or your favorite post run beverage )solves all problems6 -
PastorVincent wrote: »@7lenny7 how about this one...
(originally posted in the FB group by @_nikkiwolf_ )For our ultra runners: No pre-defined time or distance. Just a tiny loop of 4.17 miles that you have 1 hour to complete. But you have to do it every hour, until everyone else has given up. Sounds fun, right?
https://www.rei.com/blog/run/the-most-punishing-running-race-youve-never-heard-of
Ah yes, Big's Backyard Ultra. I don't even have to click on the link, I can tell what it is from the description. As I recall this year it lasted 3 days. The winner had something like 280 miles. Second place was a Minnesota native who's destroying ultra records like crazy, Courtney Duwalter.
There's a race based on this concept in Minnesota called Last Man Standing. Yes I plan to do it some day.
9 -
@juliet3455 thanks for the tips! We don't really have winters here, so when it does rain or start to get a little fresh everyone goes into a complete panic! For example..... I just saw a notice that the council has postponed all Halloween activities because there is rain forecast tomorrow.......5
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PastorVincent wrote: »@7lenny7 how about this one...
(originally posted in the FB group by @_nikkiwolf_ )For our ultra runners: No pre-defined time or distance. Just a tiny loop of 4.17 miles that you have 1 hour to complete. But you have to do it every hour, until everyone else has given up. Sounds fun, right?
https://www.rei.com/blog/run/the-most-punishing-running-race-youve-never-heard-of
Ah yes, Big's Backyard Ultra. I don't even have to click on the link, I can tell what it is from the description. As I recall this year it lasted 3 days. The winner had something like 280 miles. Second place was a Minnesota native who's destroying ultra records like crazy, Courtney Duwalter.
There's a race based on this concept in Minnesota called Last Man Standing. Yes I plan to do it some day.
It was tempting for me until I saw that the winner was at three DAYS. I can not get that kind of vacation time. heh4 -
@Elise4270 I agree. However, I am currently treating an open wound (two if you count my still healing elbow from the fall) under one so I am literally avoiding sweating until it heals. I don't want an infection. However this lack of activity is making me insane!4
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@Elise4270 I agree. However, I am currently treating an open wound (two if you count my still healing elbow from the fall) under one so I am literally avoiding sweating until it heals. I don't want an infection. However this lack of activity is making me insane!
Cover the wound in superglue. Then go run. Easy.2 -
PastorVincent wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »@7lenny7 how about this one...
(originally posted in the FB group by @_nikkiwolf_ )For our ultra runners: No pre-defined time or distance. Just a tiny loop of 4.17 miles that you have 1 hour to complete. But you have to do it every hour, until everyone else has given up. Sounds fun, right?
https://www.rei.com/blog/run/the-most-punishing-running-race-youve-never-heard-of
Ah yes, Big's Backyard Ultra. I don't even have to click on the link, I can tell what it is from the description. As I recall this year it lasted 3 days. The winner had something like 280 miles. Second place was a Minnesota native who's destroying ultra records like crazy, Courtney Duwalter.
There's a race based on this concept in Minnesota called Last Man Standing. Yes I plan to do it some day.
It was tempting for me until I saw that the winner was at three DAYS. I can not get that kind of vacation time. heh
I bet most were out after a day or two. What I love about this concept is that if the last person doesn't successfully complete a final, solo lap, there is no winner. One year it was down to two runners and those two went head to head for a long time. Finally one of them had to quit or risk missing his flight home. In a show of sportsmanship the other runner quit too. No winner that year.
I was wrong about the name of the race in Minnesota. It's called Last Runner Standing. This was the first year and the winner had 90+ miles. Most were out by the 40s.
1 -
Went on a little roadtrip and had to share my phone with DH and come back ton 156 posts. Yah, not going to catch up.
We went to Canyon de Chelly and Petrified Forest. Hiked down into two canyons, across a wash, and climbed up a rock fall. Tired. Sore. But loved it! Need to go back and do a few more wilderness hikes at Petrified Forest. Only had time for the one and all the normal park drive/walks/hikes.6 -
October goal: 95 miles
10/2: 5.5 miles
10/3: 5 miles
10/4: 5 miles
10/6: 3.1miles Old Rip 5K - PR and 2nd place AG
10/8: 5.2 miles
10/10: 5 miles
10/11: 5.2 miles
10/14: 9 miles
10/15: 3.5 miles
10/17: 5 miles
10/18: 4.1 miles
10/21: 11 miles
10/23: 4.5 miles
10/25: 3.5 miles
10/26: 4.2 miles
10/28: 8.1 miles
10/29: 3.4 miles
10/30: 5.1 miles
95.1/95 miles completed
I had a nice 5.1 run this morning and that brought me to my goal for October. I really didn't think I was going to make it this month with all the bad weather we had, but I managed to squeak by. It was a pretty nice run too. I worried it would be hot since it was already 67F when I headed out at 5:55 this morning, but the 15 mph SW winds kept it from being too bad.
2018 races:
5/19/18: Run for 57th AHC Half Marathon - 2:43:59.7. - 2nd place AG
10/6/18: Old Rip 5K Run - PR 29:43.5, 2nd place AG
11/10/18: Wags & Whiskers 5K7 -
@Elise4270 I agree. However, I am currently treating an open wound (two if you count my still healing elbow from the fall) under one so I am literally avoiding sweating until it heals. I don't want an infection. However this lack of activity is making me insane!
Isn't sweat a natural antiseptic? Haha! There's always Netflix..3 -
@eleanorhawkins wooo hoo you badass! Love it! And the commentary bahahaha.
@PastorVincent you are the worse enabler here - superglue. Though @AprilRN10 you could steal some wound glue from work.... Just saying lol.
I was stiff and sore yesterday, I assume left over tightness from the 20k on the weekend,followed by 10k yesterday. I didn't get a lot of sleep last night as miss 2 kept waking up and wanting to play during the night. I was very tempted to skip this morning, but I skipped Monday (wed here) so had to go out. I was set for 11k but barely managed 5. I kept getting sciatic pain down my left leg, my hips were aching like crazy. I just didn't enjoy it. So I limped home (both literally and figuratively) and got the roller out. I love and hate that thing. Concentrated on my It band and piriformis - that hurt. Now I can walk without a limp!
Tomorrow is a rest day. Im going to do some yoga for the next few days to really try loosen up.
But hey, I went out... That counts right?7 -
My new peg leg. I feel like I should have an eye patch and a parrot now.
ARGH!!!
18 -
@7Lenny7: I might not have gotten the 20% member discount, but I got a 20% new customer discount, so I’m happy.
@katharmonic: Wow, that is quite a shirt! Thanks for the spoiler on the blister.
I took a nap after I wrote the below and am feeling better, though still not 100%. Hoping to get a run in later today and am eating lunch at the standing desk in my old running shoes to try and wake up the foot. Not sure how wise that is, but we’ll see.
I think I’m in a funk. And/or coming down with something. And/or still recovering from too much food and alcohol and smoking over the long weekend. Either way, I’ve only run twice in the last week, haven’t lifted for a month, and just want to go back to bed even though it’s only 10:20, but I really really really want to get something resembling a full week of work in, and need to be responsive to emails relating to house-buying stuff.
I rolled my left foot on a leaf-covered stepping stone in the back yard on Sunday evening and it still hurts - the ankle seems okay, but the arch is sore on the outside. I suspect moving around on it more will help, but I Don’t Want To. I know that means I should, but the brain weasels are fighting me on this one. Maybe I’ll ice while I nap and see how things turn out later.
As of yesterday we’ve switched banks for the third time of this home-buying process. We’re going to have tp push back the closing date but at least we FINALLY have a potential deal on the table that we (and my dad, who is paying most of our closing costs) can live with. I think. I hope. Assuming the sellers don’t drop us like a hot sack of potatoes. Ug.
Also, I’m officially worried about the remaining dog. His energy levels seem lower than usual and he isn’t finishing his meals. Sigh.
Looking to be a couple miles short of my October goal, but I’m not too concerned about that. I just want to get back to regular running and lifting. All this house/dog/vacation stuff has been taking a toll.10 -
@eleanorhawkins wooo hoo you badass! Love it! And the commentary bahahaha.
@PastorVincent you are the worse enabler here - superglue. Though @AprilRN10 you could steal some wound glue from work.... Just saying lol.
I was stiff and sore yesterday, I assume left over tightness from the 20k on the weekend,followed by 10k yesterday. I didn't get a lot of sleep last night as miss 2 kept waking up and wanting to play during the night. I was very tempted to skip this morning, but I skipped Monday (wed here) so had to go out. I was set for 11k but barely managed 5. I kept getting sciatic pain down my left leg, my hips were aching like crazy. I just didn't enjoy it. So I limped home (both literally and figuratively) and got the roller out. I love and hate that thing. Concentrated on my It band and piriformis - that hurt. Now I can walk without a limp!
Tomorrow is a rest day. Im going to do some yoga for the next few days to really try loosen up.
But hey, I went out... That counts right?
I only suggested that because @AprilRN10 is a nurse. Besides, the original intention for super glue WAS to close wounds. That is why it sticks to skin so well. I do not know how sanitary it is, but it does stick real good.3 -
October 2018
Goal 1: Melbourne Marathon Sunday October 14 – Done!
Goal 2: Draw every day for Inktober 2018 – Done!
Goal 3: Handstand practice every day – Done!
Goal 4: 2 new blog posts – 3 Done!
Runs:
Oct 02 – 07.0 km
Oct 03 – 07.1 km fartleks
Oct 05 – 16.0 km fast finish
Oct 08 – 05.0 km
Oct 10 – 04.6 km with 2 sprints
Oct 14 – 43.3 km Melbourne Marathon 24 Hour Relay Run for Dennis
Oct 17 – 02.7 km
Oct 19 – 03.1 km
Oct 24 – 04.0 km
Oct 26 – 05.5 km
Oct 27 – 07.2 km
Oct 28 – 10.0 km tempo 58:52
Oct 30 – 07.0 km
Oct 31 – 10.0 km easy + sprint
A good month.
Let’s make it a good November so we can then enjoy the end of the year!5 -
PastorVincent wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »@7lenny7 how about this one...
(originally posted in the FB group by @_nikkiwolf_ )For our ultra runners: No pre-defined time or distance. Just a tiny loop of 4.17 miles that you have 1 hour to complete. But you have to do it every hour, until everyone else has given up. Sounds fun, right?
https://www.rei.com/blog/run/the-most-punishing-running-race-youve-never-heard-of
Ah yes, Big's Backyard Ultra. I don't even have to click on the link, I can tell what it is from the description. As I recall this year it lasted 3 days. The winner had something like 280 miles. Second place was a Minnesota native who's destroying ultra records like crazy, Courtney Duwalter.
There's a race based on this concept in Minnesota called Last Man Standing. Yes I plan to do it some day.
It was tempting for me until I saw that the winner was at three DAYS. I can not get that kind of vacation time. heh
You don't need three days off unless you are planning to win it outright. You could set a shorter goal for yourself and still have a major accomplishment.8 -
polskagirl01 wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »@7lenny7 how about this one...
(originally posted in the FB group by @_nikkiwolf_ )For our ultra runners: No pre-defined time or distance. Just a tiny loop of 4.17 miles that you have 1 hour to complete. But you have to do it every hour, until everyone else has given up. Sounds fun, right?
https://www.rei.com/blog/run/the-most-punishing-running-race-youve-never-heard-of
Ah yes, Big's Backyard Ultra. I don't even have to click on the link, I can tell what it is from the description. As I recall this year it lasted 3 days. The winner had something like 280 miles. Second place was a Minnesota native who's destroying ultra records like crazy, Courtney Duwalter.
There's a race based on this concept in Minnesota called Last Man Standing. Yes I plan to do it some day.
It was tempting for me until I saw that the winner was at three DAYS. I can not get that kind of vacation time. heh
You don't need three days off unless you are planning to win it outright. You could set a shorter goal for yourself and still have a major accomplishment.
enabler5 -
polskagirl01 wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »@7lenny7 how about this one...
(originally posted in the FB group by @_nikkiwolf_ )For our ultra runners: No pre-defined time or distance. Just a tiny loop of 4.17 miles that you have 1 hour to complete. But you have to do it every hour, until everyone else has given up. Sounds fun, right?
https://www.rei.com/blog/run/the-most-punishing-running-race-youve-never-heard-of
Ah yes, Big's Backyard Ultra. I don't even have to click on the link, I can tell what it is from the description. As I recall this year it lasted 3 days. The winner had something like 280 miles. Second place was a Minnesota native who's destroying ultra records like crazy, Courtney Duwalter.
There's a race based on this concept in Minnesota called Last Man Standing. Yes I plan to do it some day.
It was tempting for me until I saw that the winner was at three DAYS. I can not get that kind of vacation time. heh
You don't need three days off unless you are planning to win it outright. You could set a shorter goal for yourself and still have a major accomplishment.
enabler
Where? In this thread? Surely you jest!4
This discussion has been closed.
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