What Was Your Work Out Today?
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Another 7.5k row in the double, weather getting sunnier and steamier again . . . !MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
We have about 10 people who fit that description, 4 of whom go out in their "old man quad" (at least two of them co-own the boat and store it at our boathouse) at least once a week. I totally want to be them when I grow up.Another 7.1k rowing the double in beautiful weather. Had an excellent time!
Six weeks after her hip replacement surgery, my 73-year-old (female) rowing buddy J is now able to squat/bend down and pick up her roughly 1/2 share of the roughly 30-foot long, 60ish pound double rowing shell from water level, i.e. from below her feet, hoist it to shoulder, and carry it up to the boathouse. A decade from now, I wanna be like J!
That said, racing against people that much older than me is not my favorite thing in the world. The handicap that they get...*
*Non-rowers: at the masters level we typically race in races within age categories. When two categories are combined (or sometimes within a given category) there is time subtracted on the basis of the average age of the crew. I've been in races where another crew has had a handicap of more than 30 seconds. I think my first race ever we would have had to beat another boat by well over 20 seconds on the water to have beaten them with age adjusted time.
That's why when I went to Indy last year, they tried to recruit me. I'm also very light for a heavyweight in addition to being an older dude. Where my weight handicaps me for Indoor Rowing, I wouldn't weigh down a boat and most of the guys I keep up with are 30 to 50 lbs heavier than I am. At least at that time, I was closing in on a 7:00 2K. Not many 185 lb old men can row that speed, so all the OTW rowers were wanting me to join their club for racing purposes. I can't wait to learn OTW in a few years. Hope I can stay in shape enough to race.
You'll be a novice for the first two years (though you might not be racing against novices) anyways so I wouldn't really worry about not being fit enough. I mean obviously don't rest on your laurels (I know you won't), but so much of getting a boat through the water quickly is technique. That's one of the reasons why some of the 70+ year olds (the ones who have been rowing for decades) in my club are a. awesome and b. so useful in terms of competition. They may not be really strong anymore, but their blade work is amazing (plus they bring the average age of a boat up).
On Thursday we took out a 4 and an 8. Had both boats had people of equal skill level, the 8 should have gone faster. Especially given that probably half of the people in the 4, that I was coxing, likely hover just above lightweight (we were in a mid-weight shell - rowing shells have rate ratings). Needless to say, what actually happened was that the 4 people in my boat where much more skilled than most of the people in the other boat and on the way back to the dock we were well over 1k ahead of them, despite starting at the same time (on sweep days when there are mixed ability practices boats tend to spread out a lot and my coach is ok with that).
All of that is a long way of saying, you will be great fitness wise, but don't get discouraged if you aren't as fast as you think you should be or want to be. There's a ton of technique involved that just doesn't translate. I also know and know of a lot of people who have "bad" erg scores but are very fast on the water - hence the phrase "ergs don't float".
This is also part of why masters novice single sculling races are just all over the place in terms of time.
I know it will take a while. But I also have friends that took it up one year and the next year were very competitive in the Masters division at the Head of The Charles. Same with many of my UK friends. While they said much of what you're saying, detail is something that many indoor rowers also spend a great deal of time with as well. Just different details. Doing something four or five days a week, you can catch on fairly quick.
I think you'll likely do well, it's just that you can't work on various things that are very specific to being on the water on an erg. Also I suspect that most novice master rowers don't row 4-5 times a week. Most of the clubs I've looked at across the US involve people practicing 3 days a week. From what I can tell, and from what others who have been in the sport for over 30 years have told me, that I practice 5 days a week as a novice is pretty abnormal.
Also, while I realize that indoor rowers who are competitive focus on details, there are some very key things to getting a boat through the water that you just can't practice on an erg. Blade work being the most obvious one.
Like I said, I think you'll probably end up being a good rower on the water, but there is a steep learning curve that spares no one.
I agree with nearly all that.
However, I feel like you (@Aokoye) may be a little sweep-centric, in this post. If @MikePfirrman is considering sculling, and is attracted to the single, that's a thing that masters can practice pretty obsessively once they get into one. Individual coaching can be purchased by the hour in a lot of places, plus there are camps, of course. I'm not obsessive, just out to have fun, yet I (among others in our tiny club) still row 4 times a week routinely. In season, weather permitting, I could row 7 days, and at length, if I wanted to. Some people do.
Of course, there are limitations if one practices in a single but wants to compete in a double/quad (non-rowers, these are sculling boats, 2 oars per person, like the single), let alone a four/eight (these are sweep boats, one oar per person). I can and will sweep (bisweptually, in fact), but my sweep technique degrades for lack of practice and sweep coaching.
But for sure, bladework and set/balance, etc., are a whole extra layer beyond rowing machine, and a complicated one. It looks way easier than it is! Obviously learnable, though: it helps to have good kinethetic sense, and to be very coachable (good listener, willing to make effort and seek feedback). I started, sadly, without the kinesthetic sense (little athletic history to speak of), and that was a big handicap. Though I'm not at all fast on the erg (around 75%-ile at C2 for my division, if I work hard at training race pieces), I'm still slower yet on the water despite working hard at it (I still work technique and efficiency routinely, because it's more fun, even though I'm not training per se).
There are many parts to coordinate, and you can really only work on one refinement at a time. In some ways, someone switching from machine to shell might have a bit of extra challenge: There are things that make a person faster on a machine, but that check the boat (interrupt its forward run), and if any of those are in deep muscle-memory, that's a challenge. But a coachable person who's determined, strong and athletic, like Mike, will succeed.
Mike, part of the good news is that there's not just "Masters" at the Head of the Charles . . . it's fully age graded. Personally, I wouldn't wanna row HOCR as a novice in a single: 6 bridges, some single-file, a queue to start in the downtown Charles River basin that kicks up pretty nicely if there's wind (sometimes there's snow, too ) and endless crazy boat traffic. It's hair raising enough in a coxed boat even with a dab of racing experience. 
National team boats with skilled coxes have crashed, more than once.
*cough* I finally set up my first 90 minute private sculling lesson this morning. *cough*
One of our better scullers who got first at regionals in I don't remember which men's lightweight single age group rowing against people 10ish years younger than him (he was first on the water and then had the handicap in his favor...but was first on the water by multiple seconds - there weren't enough people in his age group to do a lightweight C race) is amazing on the water and has less than amazing erg scores.
Like I said, I think Mike will be a good on the water rower. I also know that there will be a steep slope to climb. If he's strategic, like I have been, then he'll be fine, but depending on his expectations I suspect he won't be as good as he wishes he was right out of the gate. This is an issue that appears to be very common among most of the novice men in my club and why the men's team is significantly smaller than the women's.
I also envy anyone who can get more than 5 coached rows a week...Mind you all of mine are necessarily coached - I haven't taken the captain's test to take a double out without a coach, let alone a single...on a river, having sculled in a single fewer times that I can count on one hand (and we only have the one rec single which I might get out in on Sunday fingers crossed). And yeah, a novice single at HOCR...mayyyyybe a junior who has been rowing 5-6 days a week year round mostly in a single. Maybe. But I can't imagine a coach giving that bid to a novice unless they were brilliant or it was an excruciatingly small team.1 -
Today’s workout was a 14 mile hike.
Yesterday’s workout was a 19 mile hike.
Tomorrow’s workout will be to not go anywhere or do anything...1 -
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I also envy anyone who can get more than 5 coached rows a week...Mind you all of mine are necessarily coached - I haven't taken the captain's test to take a double out without a coach, let alone a single...on a river, having sculled in a single fewer times that I can count on one hand (and we only have the one rec single which I might get out in on Sunday fingers crossed). And yeah, a novice single at HOCR...mayyyyybe a junior who has been rowing 5-6 days a week year round mostly in a single. Maybe. But I can't imagine a coach giving that bid to a novice unless they were brilliant or it was an excruciatingly small team.
I don't get any coached rows, unless I pay for them. And I don't have the wherewithal to pay for 5 a week, for sure.
One of the advantages (?) of tiny clubs is (often) a major lack of formality . . . sometimes even a scary lack of formality. We have a good-sized batch of new scullers every year who are pretty darned alarming in a single, but they're out there anyway, getting stuck in tree branches or weed mats, rowing obliviously out of traffic pattern, and all manner of distressing things. They're not even forced to do a flip test (encouraged, yes; required, no).
Our club is mostly singles, among the club-owned boats (a lot of rec models, a very few racing models since people who get serious often buy their own and rent rack space), something like 3 club doubles (maybe 4?), and 3-4 quads (not sure which are rowable, but we need them for the learn to row class).
At our place, you take the 6 week class (2 nights a week), row a few times at an open rowing session afterward, pay your dues, and you get a key to the boathouse to row anytime you want, at your own risk. (A year or two ago, I arrived to find 2 newbies sitting the rec singles on the dock before rowing!!)
As a single sculler, I believe one could enter the HOCR lottery on one's own, with a club affiliation perhaps, or even unaffiliated with a USRowing membership (for which one just pays money). The requirements to enter the HOCR lottery for entry slots are remarkably slight. Keep in mind that many people own their own singles. (I do, and have only been in it twice this season. ). Used are not that expensive, necessarily. 0 -
an hour 15min barre/yoga mix
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I also envy anyone who can get more than 5 coached rows a week...Mind you all of mine are necessarily coached - I haven't taken the captain's test to take a double out without a coach, let alone a single...on a river, having sculled in a single fewer times that I can count on one hand (and we only have the one rec single which I might get out in on Sunday fingers crossed). And yeah, a novice single at HOCR...mayyyyybe a junior who has been rowing 5-6 days a week year round mostly in a single. Maybe. But I can't imagine a coach giving that bid to a novice unless they were brilliant or it was an excruciatingly small team.
I don't get any coached rows, unless I pay for them. And I don't have the wherewithal to pay for 5 a week, for sure.
One of the advantages (?) of tiny clubs is (often) a major lack of formality . . . sometimes even a scary lack of formality. We have a good-sized batch of new scullers every year who are pretty darned alarming in a single, but they're out there anyway, getting stuck in tree branches or weed mats, rowing obliviously out of traffic pattern, and all manner of distressing things. They're not even forced to do a flip test (encouraged, yes; required, no).
Our club is mostly singles, among the club-owned boats (a lot of rec models, a very few racing models since people who get serious often buy their own and rent rack space), something like 3 club doubles (maybe 4?), and 3-4 quads (not sure which are rowable, but we need them for the learn to row class).
At our place, you take the 6 week class (2 nights a week), row a few times at an open rowing session afterward, pay your dues, and you get a key to the boathouse to row anytime you want, at your own risk. (A year or two ago, I arrived to find 2 newbies sitting the rec singles on the dock before rowing!!)
As a single sculler, I believe one could enter the HOCR lottery on one's own, with a club affiliation perhaps, or even unaffiliated with a USRowing membership (for which one just pays money). The requirements to enter the HOCR lottery for entry slots are remarkably slight. Keep in mind that many people own their own singles. (I do, and have only been in it twice this season. ). Used are not that expensive, necessarily.
Yeah I knew that individual people could enter the HOCR lottery, but I also know that there are only so many spots. I also suspect that most juniors in the US rowing singles (or rowing period) are probably rowing in clubs which is why I mentioned the coach giving (or not giving) the bid to a novice junior. Actually it looks like more or less all of the juniors categories are required to bid via an "institution" so a kid's parent wouldn't be able to do that for them. Also thank you for the reminder, I need to renew my USRowing membership this month :P
I do like my five coached rows a week, but it's also not like I'm paying for 5 private lessons a week. If I had that sort of money... I also don't think I would be able to mentally put up with 5 private lessons of anything a week.
We have three club singles, one of which is currently out of commission (there's a gash in one of the side walls - thankfully one of our members repairs all of our shells and a large chunk of the shells in the metro area) and one of which is a lightweight single that I'd never be light enough to row in (think lightweight women's single). We have a fair amount of doubles and quads, though given the popularity of our sculling program, we have to go out in two shifts on Sundays which is when all of the scullers practice on the same day (there's also sculling Mon/Tues/Thurs/Fri but those are specific skill groups - development, club, and competitive). There are also a number of people in my club who own their own singles and a few people who own doubles. Some of them store there boats at our boathouse and there are a few other docks that people in my club row out of as well.
Taking a single out on the part of the river that we row in without a coach, without having done a flip test, and being a novice would be...a terrible idea. I'm sure people do it, there are enough docks to row from in this city, but oof. Bad plan.
In an ideal world, I'd like to have a sculling lesson once a month, in part because I need to get comfortable in a single and that's one way to do it. I'm also hoping to compete in the novice men's single race at regionals next year and thus... Thankfully I'll also get a chance to practice steering on the course as we have our sculling picnic on that lake every year 2 -
In non-rowing news. I just finished a good 60 min ride on Zwift. The 4th Zwift Academy workout which was a lot of VO2 sprinty sort of work which I love. The last two intervals, which were 2 x 3' at 125% FTP were hard, doable, but hard. That said, cardio wise, I'm feeling fitter than I used to be and my legs felt strong.
It also looks like the power dropouts that I'm dealing with primarily caused by interference from, among other things, the TV remote which is new. Annoying, but fairly easy to mitigate.1 -
@ Aoyoke - the long-term plan would be take a year or two of lessons and join a club regularly, then buy a used single eventually. I'm a few years off that plan, though my son's recent move to San Diego has me thinking two rowing venues for the future - Phoenix (90 minutes away) and San Diego, where I'll likely have a place to stay.
The guy I know actually rowed three years before the HOTC (I checked with him). He also bought a used single and is on it all the time now.
Today's row was to do at least 8 X 500m / 1 minute rest as I felt comfortable with without falling off a cliff. Was a nice workout without too much fall off. All were below 2:00 and ended up at 1:58 or so. Was hoping to do 12 of them but would have likely really been pushing too hard. Didn't want to get up more than 90% max HR.2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »@ Aoyoke - the long-term plan would be take a year or two of lessons and join a club regularly, then buy a used single eventually. I'm a few years off that plan, though my son's recent move to San Diego has me thinking two rowing venues for the future - Phoenix (90 minutes away) and San Diego, where I'll likely have a place to stay.
The guy I know actually rowed three years before the HOTC (I checked with him). He also bought a used single and is on it all the time now.
Today's row was to do at least 8 X 500m / 1 minute rest as I felt comfortable with without falling off a cliff. Was a nice workout without too much fall off. All were below 2:00 and ended up at 1:58 or so. Was hoping to do 12 of them but would have likely really been pushing too hard. Didn't want to get up more than 90% max HR.
Sounds like a good plan. At the end of the day, you're going to be fit enough to join a club. Your fitness will not hold you back. Today I was in a mixed novice 8 and of the five 5 minute pieces we did, the ones that were good were not good because of the combined fitness of the 8 rowers. They were good because of how people were matching each other, blade depth, hand heights, there not being a ton of check in the boat, how much pressure people were putting into the pin, and so on. I also know a fair amount of people who have rowed at the HOTCR in singles and in 8s, hopefully I'll get to do that at some point. I know a teenager who I think competed last year in a coxed quad, either that or an 8 (I'd have to look it up).
My grad school search has also involved the question of, "is there a rowing club nearby?" Thankfully my first choice works as far as that's concerned, the Ottawa Rowing Club is apparently a 12 minute bike ride from the University of Ottawa (though there goes rowing outside in the winter). Also once you start rowing, you may be able to guest row at a club when you travel down to San Diego.1 -
Chalean extreme
Elliptical
Walking1 -
Bouldering for 90 minutes. I did OK. I got a few new routes, including a former nemesis. I got every v1 and V2 I tried, but not many v3s.2
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3mi TM. 15 min tempo run right into cooldown.1
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8/12/2019 - rest day.1
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Get Moving Monday
20min easy paced run
30 min session with trainer, not sure what actually happened to get moving Monday. Straight in with a rather hellish hill sprint session with additional squats, push ups, lunges and planks
Bowling with my boys
30 min tabata
45 min barbell
School holidays are really cutting in to my training schedule so I'm getting what I can in when I can1 -
Nearly 8k in a quad. Beautiful beautiful water. Well ok, the conditions were beautiful - very very flat for most of our row. The content of water was actually pretty gross.
Warm up followed by some steady state then one and a half 11 minute pieces with a pyramid rate. The first piece was interrupted by a crab from me (that I calmly but slowly recovered from - my big thing with crabbing is making sure I'm relatively calm) and the second was interrupted by a. needing to stop and turn around and b. someone water skiing at not even 7am and us extending our break after we had turned to wait for their wake.
I need to work on...wait for it...blade work. More specifically, I really need to work on feathering and squaring with my fingers.2 -
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Spin class again. I feel like the excessive ** amount of long-ish steady state rowing this year has had an effect on my heart rate response that I ought to like, but I really don't.
** Clearly, there is no "excessive" except with respect to one's own goals and fitness level, and this routine has been deliberate. I'm still babying my knees (partly out of fear, partly because they aren't improving as I'd hope, but they aren't getting perceptibly worse, either). I normally enjoy mixing more interval or race-piece work into the rowing just for variety, to increase the fun, but that comes at a cost of higher physical stresses.2 -
Crazy Tuesday- my favourite day of the week.
No PT today, got an hour tomorrow to make up for it.
Around 3miles bike rides to get here and there.
45 min zumba class
Gym workout
15minute run on treadmill, 1.5miles so quite fast for me
10 min on spin bike, doing standing hill climb intervals.
Main workout was a pyramid workout with reps going down from 10-1 (except indoor sled push). Used an indoor tyre and indoor sled loaded with 40kg.
Box jumps
Press ups
Sled push
Split squats (both legs)
Tricep dips.
Getting so much more confident at the box jumps now. May start to incorporate burpee box jumps in a couple weeks.
Cooled down on rower for 10 min then spent another 5 min stretching.
45min insanity class
50min boxercise class, very cardio heavy, my hr spent a long time in the threshold zone, prob because I was partnering the instructor (who is also my PT)
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8/13/2019 - noon hour at park, 90F degrees and 29 percent humidity.
#1 - Double kettlebell overhead press (OHP) with a pair of 24kg KB x 3 plus two-hand KB swing with 24kg KB x 30 every 3:00 for 5 rounds completed in 13:22 - average HR = 140 bpm (78 percent) maximum HR = 160 bpm (89 percent) total 156 calories. Note: rep #3 of rounds #3 and #5 were push jerk not OHP after attempting OHP. 30-rep swing rounds appear more taxing than 2 rounds of 15 reps.
#2 - Run 5:45 walk 0:15 for 5 rounds and then run for 0:27. = 3.0 miles in 30:27 - average HR = 154 bpm (86 percent) maximum HR = 166 bpm (92 percent) total 408 calories. Planned on 60 minutes running but made a "business decision" to "treat" myself and call it quits at 30 minutes.1 -
30 minutes on the rower today (what a shock, right?) @ 18 SR, keeping HR in check under 150. Ended with only 15 on the bike to Cool Down. Had to take my pups to the vet today for their annual shots so cut it short.
Sometimes progress is slow to see when you're working every day. Looked back at my workout from mid July -- same workout. HR average today was 135 @ 2:23 pace/18 SPM (strokes per minute). Last month was 143 HR @ 2:23/19 SPM, so nice improvement on both power and HR dropping. Same pace, more power per stroke and lower HR all at the same time.1 -
Kickboxing and Tabata with my daughter at the gym today. It kicked my butt. The Tabata piece was intense with a lot of burpees, mountain climbers, planks, push ups, squats, jumps, lunges, etc. My elbow feels OK, so it was a good idea to try it. Spin and Pilates tomorrow and using my new kayak this week! Finally!4
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