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Please help with this argument- Intermittent fasting related

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  • jjpptt2jjpptt2 Posts: 4,723Member Member Posts: 4,723Member Member
    never mind.
    edited September 20
  • TedebearduffTedebearduff Posts: 1,124Member Member Posts: 1,124Member Member
    raven56706 wrote: »
    On my friends side, he says Intermittent Fasting has tons of benefits and doesnt't have to be done with Keto.

    I have said " if it doesnt have anything to do with Keto, why fast? just stick to the calories and thats it."

    i mean correct me if i am wrong (i checked google and forget it. tons of "experts" ) but IF is just a way to restrict your calories thats it. say you eat 1800 calories a day for weight loss. if you eat 200 calories at lets say 8am, then you have the ENTIRE day to eat 1600. You don't have to wait but just be mindful of your eating.

    What i am trying to say is there is no magic to it correct?

    There's lots out there I'm no expert on IF but there are lots of benefits to it just google some more.

    here is something on it for ya
    http://news.mit.edu/2018/fasting-boosts-stem-cells-regenerative-capacity-0503
  • NovusDiesNovusDies Posts: 5,269Member, Premium Member Posts: 5,269Member, Premium Member
    raven56706 wrote: »
    On my friends side, he says Intermittent Fasting has tons of benefits and doesnt't have to be done with Keto.

    I have said " if it doesnt have anything to do with Keto, why fast? just stick to the calories and thats it."

    i mean correct me if i am wrong (i checked google and forget it. tons of "experts" ) but IF is just a way to restrict your calories thats it. say you eat 1800 calories a day for weight loss. if you eat 200 calories at lets say 8am, then you have the ENTIRE day to eat 1600. You don't have to wait but just be mindful of your eating.

    What i am trying to say is there is no magic to it correct?

    There's lots out there I'm no expert on IF but there are lots of benefits to it just google some more.

    here is something on it for ya
    http://news.mit.edu/2018/fasting-boosts-stem-cells-regenerative-capacity-0503

    Mouse study.
  • Annie_01Annie_01 Posts: 3,115Member Member Posts: 3,115Member Member
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    never mind.

    I keep saying that I am going to "never mind" the threads on IF but I just don't. They all turn in to this great debate just like KETO did for a while.
  • lynn_glenmontlynn_glenmont Posts: 7,005Member Member Posts: 7,005Member Member
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    For weight loss IF is just another way to manage calories. There is growing research though around additional health benefits of this way of eating not related specifically to weight.

    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/intermittent-fasting-surprising-update-2018062914156

    Did you read this paragraph in the blog you linked to:

    'There’s a ton of incredibly promising intermittent fasting (IF) research done on fat rats. They lose weight, their blood pressure, cholesterol, and blood sugars improve… but they’re rats. Studies in humans, almost across the board, have shown that IF is safe and incredibly effective, but really no more effective than any other diet. In addition, many people find it difficult to fast.'

    When they start reproducing the results in humans, I will start paying attention to the 'magic' of IF.

    I read the entire thing. There is more research being done in humans now as also stated in the article. Did you read it? In addition to the benefits regarding insulin there have also been noted improvements in blood pressure - even for those with no weight change. While more research is needed this is promising.

    The studies are still being conducted and we will learn more. I believe we should all be excited to learn new things as they are discovered. Don’t you?

    I personally gave up IF because it does not work for me with my training schedule and I personally experienced no health benefits outside of easily maintaining my deficit. I won’t disregard the research happening and potential benefits being explored because of my own experience though.

    I'm actually more excited about not-so-new things that are supported by multiple studies carried out by multiple researchers looking at a question from a variety of angles. There's a tendency for people to get all excited about some new study that shows something new, that might just be an outlier in the entire corpus of studies looking at an issue.
  • NovusDiesNovusDies Posts: 5,269Member, Premium Member Posts: 5,269Member, Premium Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    NovusDies wrote: »
    raven56706 wrote: »
    On my friends side, he says Intermittent Fasting has tons of benefits and doesnt't have to be done with Keto.

    I have said " if it doesnt have anything to do with Keto, why fast? just stick to the calories and thats it."

    i mean correct me if i am wrong (i checked google and forget it. tons of "experts" ) but IF is just a way to restrict your calories thats it. say you eat 1800 calories a day for weight loss. if you eat 200 calories at lets say 8am, then you have the ENTIRE day to eat 1600. You don't have to wait but just be mindful of your eating.

    What i am trying to say is there is no magic to it correct?

    There's lots out there I'm no expert on IF but there are lots of benefits to it just google some more.

    here is something on it for ya
    http://news.mit.edu/2018/fasting-boosts-stem-cells-regenerative-capacity-0503

    Mouse study.

    Yeah, it's amazing how frequently people jump on some clickbait about IF. The majority of them are mouse studies which may or may not translate to humans. A small % of mouse studies typically do.

    There have been mostly short term, low participant and often uncontrolled studies on IF with human participants. More in depth, high quality human studies would certainly be beneficial. As of now, none of these auxiliary benefits are proven. As a person who practices IF, I hope there are more benefits. But I'm not going to claim them and act on them until there is proof. We should all recall how fat was the boogie man in the 70s and 80s based on insufficient evidence...

    If someone else want to be an early adapter and bet on the come, that is up to them but don't claim it as fact please and using mouse studies only undermines your credibility.

    I am with you. I hope IF is proven to have all kinds of benefits. I have never said that none exist. But I have heard of miracle cures and fat burning secrets my entire life and none of them have ever stood against the test of science.

    My personal theory has always been that some of the benefits may exist in humans but they they are so tiny they are hard to measure. If a person like me that has skipped breakfast for 20+ years had been measured back in the beginning and now perhaps something will have shown up.

    While I would never try to connect this when I do read about this improvement in insulin resistance I sometimes find myself wondering if my 20+ years of "improving" might have contributed to my reactive hypoglycemia. My body produces too much insulin. On the other hand that would be a great clickbait blog: Can long term IF cause your blood sugar to drop to fatal levels? Find out here!
    edited September 20
  • kshama2001kshama2001 Posts: 19,722Member Member Posts: 19,722Member Member
    raven56706 wrote: »
    haha i think this debate was more entertaining here than the one with my friend.

    MFP brings the lulz!
  • lynn_glenmontlynn_glenmont Posts: 7,005Member Member Posts: 7,005Member Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    NovusDies wrote: »
    raven56706 wrote: »
    On my friends side, he says Intermittent Fasting has tons of benefits and doesnt't have to be done with Keto.

    I have said " if it doesnt have anything to do with Keto, why fast? just stick to the calories and thats it."

    i mean correct me if i am wrong (i checked google and forget it. tons of "experts" ) but IF is just a way to restrict your calories thats it. say you eat 1800 calories a day for weight loss. if you eat 200 calories at lets say 8am, then you have the ENTIRE day to eat 1600. You don't have to wait but just be mindful of your eating.

    What i am trying to say is there is no magic to it correct?

    There's lots out there I'm no expert on IF but there are lots of benefits to it just google some more.

    here is something on it for ya
    http://news.mit.edu/2018/fasting-boosts-stem-cells-regenerative-capacity-0503

    Mouse study.

    Yeah, it's amazing how frequently people jump on some clickbait about IF. The majority of them are mouse studies which may or may not translate to humans. A small % of mouse studies typically do.

    There have been mostly short term, low participant and often uncontrolled studies on IF with human participants. More in depth, high quality human studies would certainly be beneficial. As of now, none of these auxiliary benefits are proven. As a person who practices IF, I hope there are more benefits. But I'm not going to claim them and act on them until there is proof. We should all recall how fat was the boogie man in the 70s and 80s based on insufficient evidence...

    If someone else want to be an early adapter and bet on the come, that is up to them but don't claim it as fact please and using mouse studies only undermines your credibility.

    I am with you. I hope IF is proven to have all kinds of benefits. I have never said that none exist. But I have heard of miracle cures and fat burning secrets my entire life and none of them have ever stood against the test of science.

    My personal theory has always been that some of the benefits may exist in humans but they they are so tiny they are hard to measure. If a person like me that has skipped breakfast for 20+ years had been measured back in the beginning and now perhaps something will have shown up.

    While I would never try to connect this when I do read about this improvement in insulin resistance I sometimes find myself wondering if my 20+ years of "improving" might have contributed to my reactive hypoglycemia. My body produces too much insulin. On the other hand that would be a great clickbait blog: Can long term IF cause your blood sugar to drop to fatal levels? Find out here!


    This reminds me of my own longtime personal theory that the outsized benefits attributed to relatively small weight losses in the significantly overweight or obese (say, 5% to 10% of BW) confound the benefits of weight loss with the benefits of being in a calorie deficit -- that is, that there could be effects on some of the common health markers such as blood glucose, BP, lipid profiles caused by being in a calorie deficit over a period of weeks (presumably it would be an effect of the physical processes needed to recover stored energy), totally separate from the benefits of being a slightly healthier weight. I'm wondering if simply being in a calorie deficit for longer periods each day, which could cause more recovery of stored energy during that period (even if counterbalanced by energy storage in the eating window), could have similar effects.
  • neugebauer52neugebauer52 Posts: 916Member Member Posts: 916Member Member
    For tens of thousands of years or forbears were hunter gatherers. They didn't do so when they realized that they were hungry, or at a certain time (no watches, only the sun, moon and stars to guide them) or only after a certain amount of hours - how would they have known? And they hunted and gathered all the time. I prefer to eat something at home before I start my "hunting gathering" at the shopping centre / supermarket, i.e. do my food and beverage shopping. And I never enjoyed a big breakfast - an early lunch seems to suit me just fine which means that between dinner time (about 7 p.m.) and the next meal are about 16 to 18 hours. Call that intermittent fasting? Fine by me - I just wonder who told my stomach to behave like that...
  • NovusDiesNovusDies Posts: 5,269Member, Premium Member Posts: 5,269Member, Premium Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    NovusDies wrote: »
    raven56706 wrote: »
    On my friends side, he says Intermittent Fasting has tons of benefits and doesnt't have to be done with Keto.

    I have said " if it doesnt have anything to do with Keto, why fast? just stick to the calories and thats it."

    i mean correct me if i am wrong (i checked google and forget it. tons of "experts" ) but IF is just a way to restrict your calories thats it. say you eat 1800 calories a day for weight loss. if you eat 200 calories at lets say 8am, then you have the ENTIRE day to eat 1600. You don't have to wait but just be mindful of your eating.

    What i am trying to say is there is no magic to it correct?

    There's lots out there I'm no expert on IF but there are lots of benefits to it just google some more.

    here is something on it for ya
    http://news.mit.edu/2018/fasting-boosts-stem-cells-regenerative-capacity-0503

    Mouse study.

    Yeah, it's amazing how frequently people jump on some clickbait about IF. The majority of them are mouse studies which may or may not translate to humans. A small % of mouse studies typically do.

    There have been mostly short term, low participant and often uncontrolled studies on IF with human participants. More in depth, high quality human studies would certainly be beneficial. As of now, none of these auxiliary benefits are proven. As a person who practices IF, I hope there are more benefits. But I'm not going to claim them and act on them until there is proof. We should all recall how fat was the boogie man in the 70s and 80s based on insufficient evidence...

    If someone else want to be an early adapter and bet on the come, that is up to them but don't claim it as fact please and using mouse studies only undermines your credibility.

    I am with you. I hope IF is proven to have all kinds of benefits. I have never said that none exist. But I have heard of miracle cures and fat burning secrets my entire life and none of them have ever stood against the test of science.

    My personal theory has always been that some of the benefits may exist in humans but they they are so tiny they are hard to measure. If a person like me that has skipped breakfast for 20+ years had been measured back in the beginning and now perhaps something will have shown up.

    While I would never try to connect this when I do read about this improvement in insulin resistance I sometimes find myself wondering if my 20+ years of "improving" might have contributed to my reactive hypoglycemia. My body produces too much insulin. On the other hand that would be a great clickbait blog: Can long term IF cause your blood sugar to drop to fatal levels? Find out here!


    This reminds me of my own longtime personal theory that the outsized benefits attributed to relatively small weight losses in the significantly overweight or obese (say, 5% to 10% of BW) confound the benefits of weight loss with the benefits of being in a calorie deficit -- that is, that there could be effects on some of the common health markers such as blood glucose, BP, lipid profiles caused by being in a calorie deficit over a period of weeks (presumably it would be an effect of the physical processes needed to recover stored energy), totally separate from the benefits of being a slightly healthier weight. I'm wondering if simply being in a calorie deficit for longer periods each day, which could cause more recovery of stored energy during that period (even if counterbalanced by energy storage in the eating window), could have similar effects.

    I don't know. I do know that my lipids have gone the wrong way which seems to also be a thing with people who have a lot of fat to lose and are not weight stable.

    I am not sure if my BP will actually improve until I have my surgery and can incorporate more exercise. It hasn't changed in nearly 150 pounds but it is only mildly high. Before medication 125-135/69-78 was my normal range. I apparently never needed any help with my RHR which has remained around 55 for the last 100 pounds or so I have bothered to add it to my SS.

    I do find the various changes in physiology to be very interesting while in a deficit. I had no idea it could change hormone levels so much.
  • FuzzipegFuzzipeg Posts: 1,874Member Member Posts: 1,874Member Member
    Comparing any form of IF with the constant grazing some manage to do. My understanding from a BANT registered Nutritionist is, when the body is constantly being fed the normal cycle of digestion through to elimination is in a constant state of being reset. The essential organs take something like 5 or 6 hours to go through, to complete their processes, introducing more foods within that time returns the whole process to its starting point. This can impact on liver function, particularly as we age, causing it to be less able to eliminate the "essential by products of life", as readily as it otherwise should.

    I would suggest it is not unusual for many people to start their day at say 7-30 with breakfast, having lunch at say 12 -30 and probably an evening meal at 6 or 7 ish. It is possible for these people to achieve a "fast" overnight approaching 12 hours, this is probably adequate to assist the body it its task to dare I say, "cleanse" itself.
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