October 2019 Monthly Running Challenge

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  • MegaMooseEsq
    MegaMooseEsq Posts: 3,118 Member
    edited October 2019
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    T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
    girlinahat wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    girlinahat wrote: »
    polskagirl01 wrote: »
    7lenny7 wrote: »
    Is the marathon distance in decline? Interesting read from the local paper ahead of Sunday's Twin Cities Marathon. Some of the comments are really idiotic.

    http://www.startribune.com/twin-cities-marathon-has-a-defining-distance-of-road-racing-hit-the-wall/562099202/

    Does this mean I might have a chance at placing in my AG if I just keep going?
    Marathons are hard. The commitment and training required really don't compare to preparing for a half. And yet, a half marathon is still a huge accomplishment! So I don't blame people for choosing shorter distances, and it's also my favorite race distance.

    I dearly want to run an Ultra, but my recent marathon experience showed me that I need to go right back to basics, get some speed and consistency up, and focus on 10k races next year. I have a mental hurdle with that, as it almost doesn't seem worth getting out of bed for a 10k race. BUT marathon training takes so much time. I really want to be able to just run 20miles whenever I feel like it, but for me that's a day out of my weekend.

    I'm trying to change my mindset that 10k is fine. I have a new challenger on the block - my sister, who took up running recently, who only finished chemo/radiotherapy back in June, has just done a 5k in under 30 minutes. And she's seven years older than me. this is war.

    Interesting conversation. For me, my major focus on running is health and fitness, and for me running a marathon simply isn’t a path to that goal - it’s much more likely to harm me than help me. It’s sometimes difficult to put my fingers in my ears and ignore the running community which says, “Run more! Run marathons! Run ultras! You’re just a dabbler unless you do!” and stay focused on my true goal, which is staying healthy.

    In fact running even as long as a half isn’t that great for me - when I did it I ended up with an overuse injury. I’m older and my tendons are fragile and I’ve got plenty to do staying sound enough to run 5 and 10k, which benefit my cardio and blood sugar plenty, while more distance means more stress, which I don’t physically need.

    it's an interesting perspective - running is certainly about health and fitness for me, but it's also about exploring the countryside. I want to run further so I can explore more. The only reason I want to run faster is to be able to join in social runs and to get to the end point before it gets dark!!!!

    This is why I originally got into running. I was doing a lot of hiking and backpacking, seeing beautiful places like Glacier National Park, Zion National Park, and many others. Then I realized I see more in my limited time if I move faster. After starting to run, I got drawn into the social aspect of races and the goals of doing more marathons and more states. Most of my runs and races are now road, and I do really enjoy road marathons and the social aspect.

    However, I really would like to get back to running more trails. I just wish there were longer trails closer. I have been known to frequently drive 2 hrs. one-way for a better place to run on weekends. I am thinking about going 3 hrs. one-way this weekend for another trail, but 6 hrs. in the car on Sat. and 5 hrs. on the trails cuts into time that I would like to spend planning and packing for Chicago next weekend. I may have to visit those trails another time and run roads around home for my longer runs this weekend.

    Before I moved in June, in Iowa, I lived less than 30 miles from 2 different state parks (different directions) with 6-8 miles of trails each looping around lakes. Those are not particularly long, but they are long enough to have a good run in the woods on a weeknight without driving for long.

    I think that 6-10 miles is my favorite distance because it hits that sweet spot of letting me explore the city a bit but still be home for brunch. And I also love the social aspect of races - I describe them to my nerd friends as "running conventions" and that's just about right.
  • RunsOnEspresso
    RunsOnEspresso Posts: 3,218 Member
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    MegaMooseEsq wrote: »
    A few thoughts on that StarTrib article from @7lenny7 : first, this quote really spoke to me as a “younger person” - “Twenty years ago, you ran a marathon. But [baby] boomers are aging out and younger people have so many choices — not only shorter, more manageable races, but they’re going to the gym, they’re doing CrossFit and yoga and biking.”

    I love running, but I would personally rather be a well-rounded active person than dedicate all of my time and energy to excelling at one activity (not that there's anything wrong with that option!). There are things I get from weight lifting that I don’t get from running, same for yoga and biking. And while I know that cross training can make you a stronger runner, it also takes time, and ultimately, there are only so many hours in the day.

    It seems like there's been a lot more awareness over the last 5 years of the importance of strength training in particular, especially for women, along with a larger cultural shift towards focusing on health and wellness over just being skinny. Not that that doesn't have its own pitfalls, but it does seem like cardio generally isn't seen as the end-all-be-all of exercise the way it was in the 80s and 90s.

    Also, the article mentions trail running and ultras but doesn’t include any participation trends for those activities. I’m sure it doesn’t make up all of the difference, but I do wonder how many people are switching from road to trail as that becomes more popular and available. I’d also wonder what triathlon and obstacle course participation numbers look like. I guess that kind of falls into the “more options” mentioned above.

    I guess I find these numbers interesting but not especially concerning. There are still loads of races available at all sorts of distances, and still millions more people running now than 30 years ago. You don’t need to run a marathon to be a runner, you just have to run.

    I wondered about the trails and ultras as well because they really seem to have gained a lot of popularity over the past 5ish years. I've been running and reading about running since 2004 (more seriously starting in 2009ish) and it was rare to read about trail and ultras in say Runner's World. There were far less trail races in 2012 when I started then there are now. At least that I found (and I used to scour the interwebs).

    I think for the general population there's definitely more focus on being well rounded. But I kind of straddle the weight lifting world and so many of them are still anti-cardio (still use the term cardio bunny). Just like there's a fraction of hard core runners who call weight lifters meat heads. Although it seems like runners are more interested in weight training than lifters are in running.
  • RunsOnEspresso
    RunsOnEspresso Posts: 3,218 Member
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    girlinahat wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Nike's new ad, dedicated to the back of the pack, worth a watch:

    this may not be the effect that Nike wanted, but all I take from that ad is 'what disgusting human beings who think littering is suddenly okay because they are in a race and someone else is going to clean up after us' #runclean #carrymyown

    If I stop, I usually try to put it available cans. Usually though they put the cans right next to the station and most people grab and keep moving. If I can't get it in the can I try to get it to the side of the road. I've slipped and seen others slip on cups and wrappers before.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
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    RunsOnEspresso wrote: »
    girlinahat wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Nike's new ad, dedicated to the back of the pack, worth a watch:

    this may not be the effect that Nike wanted, but all I take from that ad is 'what disgusting human beings who think littering is suddenly okay because they are in a race and someone else is going to clean up after us' #runclean #carrymyown

    If I stop, I usually try to put it available cans. Usually though they put the cans right next to the station and most people grab and keep moving. If I can't get it in the can I try to get it to the side of the road. I've slipped and seen others slip on cups and wrappers before.

    Yeah, the need to have the cans spread out in a line after the water just like they have the cups spread out for picking up. One or two races I have been in have done that and there was much less mess.

    It still all ends up in a landfill though, unless the race at least uses recyclable and recycles.
  • MegaMooseEsq
    MegaMooseEsq Posts: 3,118 Member
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    RunsOnEspresso wrote: »
    MegaMooseEsq wrote: »
    A few thoughts on that StarTrib article from @7lenny7 : first, this quote really spoke to me as a “younger person” - “Twenty years ago, you ran a marathon. But [baby] boomers are aging out and younger people have so many choices — not only shorter, more manageable races, but they’re going to the gym, they’re doing CrossFit and yoga and biking.”

    I love running, but I would personally rather be a well-rounded active person than dedicate all of my time and energy to excelling at one activity (not that there's anything wrong with that option!). There are things I get from weight lifting that I don’t get from running, same for yoga and biking. And while I know that cross training can make you a stronger runner, it also takes time, and ultimately, there are only so many hours in the day.

    It seems like there's been a lot more awareness over the last 5 years of the importance of strength training in particular, especially for women, along with a larger cultural shift towards focusing on health and wellness over just being skinny. Not that that doesn't have its own pitfalls, but it does seem like cardio generally isn't seen as the end-all-be-all of exercise the way it was in the 80s and 90s.

    Also, the article mentions trail running and ultras but doesn’t include any participation trends for those activities. I’m sure it doesn’t make up all of the difference, but I do wonder how many people are switching from road to trail as that becomes more popular and available. I’d also wonder what triathlon and obstacle course participation numbers look like. I guess that kind of falls into the “more options” mentioned above.

    I guess I find these numbers interesting but not especially concerning. There are still loads of races available at all sorts of distances, and still millions more people running now than 30 years ago. You don’t need to run a marathon to be a runner, you just have to run.

    I wondered about the trails and ultras as well because they really seem to have gained a lot of popularity over the past 5ish years. I've been running and reading about running since 2004 (more seriously starting in 2009ish) and it was rare to read about trail and ultras in say Runner's World. There were far less trail races in 2012 when I started then there are now. At least that I found (and I used to scour the interwebs).

    I think for the general population there's definitely more focus on being well rounded. But I kind of straddle the weight lifting world and so many of them are still anti-cardio (still use the term cardio bunny). Just like there's a fraction of hard core runners who call weight lifters meat heads. Although it seems like runners are more interested in weight training than lifters are in running.

    Yeah, there are always going to be people who decide that their way is the best way and everyone else is just wasting their time. My brother-in-law is one of those runners who won't lift weights because he doesn't want to get "bulky". Also, got to love the subtle sexism of "cardio bunny"! I haven't seen that attitude much at my gym, but that's likely because it's a specialty gym that emphasizes functional strength and has a much higher proportion of women and genderqueer/non-binary people than many weight-lifting gyms.

    I suspect that the reason you see more runners interested in weight lifting than vice versa is that while strength training does seem to have real benefits for runners (and everybody else), running specifically doesn't necessarily have much benefit for lifters. Endurance cardio definitely has its place in a well-rounded fitness routine, but there are a lot of options available aside from running. I love running, but I don't encourage other people to try it nearly as much as I try and encourage people to try lifting.
  • girlinahat
    girlinahat Posts: 2,956 Member
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    PastorVincent wrote: »
    RunsOnEspresso wrote: »
    girlinahat wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Nike's new ad, dedicated to the back of the pack, worth a watch:

    this may not be the effect that Nike wanted, but all I take from that ad is 'what disgusting human beings who think littering is suddenly okay because they are in a race and someone else is going to clean up after us' #runclean #carrymyown

    If I stop, I usually try to put it available cans. Usually though they put the cans right next to the station and most people grab and keep moving. If I can't get it in the can I try to get it to the side of the road. I've slipped and seen others slip on cups and wrappers before.

    Yeah, the need to have the cans spread out in a line after the water just like they have the cups spread out for picking up. One or two races I have been in have done that and there was much less mess.

    It still all ends up in a landfill though, unless the race at least uses recyclable and recycles.

    this is the problem for me (along with the mentality it breeds). I guess because I only run trail races, it's ingrained in me not to drop litter (most trail races disqualify you for that anyway). The more we can do to reduce the actual single-use litter the better, and that really does need a mentality shift.

    At a recent Half Marathon road race near me, the problem was two-fold. Firstly it's plastic (well done Nike on showing paper cups), and secondly the bottles were all still half-full as they were thrown to the side (water should be considered a precious resource, there are people who do not have access to water and we'd do well to remember that). Also the gel station - I can forgive the plastic bottles, but gel wrappers? No, I can't forgive that. I don't care if it is sticky as you put it into your pocket, it's not like you aren't about to wash that item of clothing after a race.
  • MegaMooseEsq
    MegaMooseEsq Posts: 3,118 Member
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    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Meanwhile in Pittsburgh...
    npsdvpmi1qof.png

    Subtract ten degrees from either end and that's this week in Minneapolis.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
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    rheddmobile wrote: »
    girlinahat wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Nike's new ad, dedicated to the back of the pack, worth a watch:

    this may not be the effect that Nike wanted, but all I take from that ad is 'what disgusting human beings who think littering is suddenly okay because they are in a race and someone else is going to clean up after us' #runclean #carrymyown

    At the orientation I went to for St Jude they flat out told you to throw the cups on the ground, because they don’t want runners clogging up the path next to the trash cans. They have a sweeper for a reason.

    Many trail races require runners to carry hydration and just use the aid stations to refill. I know it isn't the same as road races, but I demand to carry a bottle no matter where I run. I mix electrolytes sometimes and I don't just drink when at an aid station.

    As to the environmental aspect, I suppose it is not different between having cleaners vs. having a trash can, assuming the cups are contained and don't get blown away before they can be picked up. It makes me cringe, still, but I can acknowledge that there is no objective difference in th end result. Personally, I prefer cup-less races anyway.

    I'm not competing at a level where taking 20s to fill my cup is going to make a difference. The elites up front can have their cups to snatch while moving, but put out quik-fill machines for those of us who prefer. Then we can have it both ways...
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
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    143tobe wrote: »

    I beat my previous PR by almost 9 minutes (2:26:44)! My average pace went from an 11:10 minute mile to a 10:20 minute mile. In just two weeks! And on a course that was twice as hard. I'm sorry, I hope you all don't think I'm gloating but I am SO proud of myself.

    Well done! And great work rescuing your husband! :)

  • RunsOnEspresso
    RunsOnEspresso Posts: 3,218 Member
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    T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    girlinahat wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Nike's new ad, dedicated to the back of the pack, worth a watch:

    this may not be the effect that Nike wanted, but all I take from that ad is 'what disgusting human beings who think littering is suddenly okay because they are in a race and someone else is going to clean up after us' #runclean #carrymyown

    At the orientation I went to for St Jude they flat out told you to throw the cups on the ground, because they don’t want runners clogging up the path next to the trash cans. They have a sweeper for a reason.

    Many trail races require runners to carry hydration and just use the aid stations to refill. I know it isn't the same as road races, but I demand to carry a bottle no matter where I run. I mix electrolytes sometimes and I don't just drink when at an aid station.

    As to the environmental aspect, I suppose it is not different between having cleaners vs. having a trash can, assuming the cups are contained and don't get blown away before they can be picked up. It makes me cringe, still, but I can acknowledge that there is no objective difference in th end result. Personally, I prefer cup-less races anyway.

    I'm not competing at a level where taking 20s to fill my cup is going to make a difference. The elites up front can have their cups to snatch while moving, but put out quik-fill machines for those of us who prefer. Then we can have it both ways...

    The trail series I do is cupless. They had a reusable cup as swag one race and they just put a big Gatorade thing of water on the course to fill from.

    I love the idea of cupless races but logistically can't see something like rock n roll series working. Just the number of runners alone is hard enough for volunteers to keep up with cups. I imagine the issues that would come with everyone trying to fill up. 🤷🏼‍♀️
  • MegaMooseEsq
    MegaMooseEsq Posts: 3,118 Member
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    @143tobe : Congratulations! That’s a great time for a tough course!
  • 7lenny7
    7lenny7 Posts: 3,493 Member
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    MegaMooseEsq wrote: »
    Also, the article mentions trail running and ultras but doesn’t include any participation trends for those activities. I’m sure it doesn’t make up all of the difference, but I do wonder how many people are switching from road to trail as that becomes more popular and available. I’d also wonder what triathlon and obstacle course participation numbers look like. I guess that kind of falls into the “more options” mentioned above.

    Trail running and ultrarunning is BOOMing. Races that you used to be able to sign up at the last minute are now filling up. Races that used to fill up are now going to a lottery system. New trail races and ultras are popping up all the time. There are now conversations about whether trail running is TOO popular and putting too much strain on our parks. I don't have any numbers or empirical data, but even in the few years I've been on the trails I've noticed an increase.

    I don't think it's a bad thing at all if the numbers go up or down at any distance. There's a limited amount of time and money for people to spend on activities. There will always be enough races for me to enter, and the trails (or pavement) will always be there for me.

    girlinahat wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Nike's new ad, dedicated to the back of the pack, worth a watch:

    this may not be the effect that Nike wanted, but all I take from that ad is 'what disgusting human beings who think littering is suddenly okay because they are in a race and someone else is going to clean up after us' #runclean #carrymyown

    That bothers me too, though I know that's what you're supposed to do. Logically I get it. The last trail race I entered, a marathon, was my first cupless race. I expected to hate it, but I really, really liked it. A super flexible cup was part of the SWAG and I just kept it stuffed in my back pocket. I really liked being able to take my last cup from an aid station and keep moving, then stuffing it back into my pocket when empty. I hardly noticed it there. That's clearly not an option for a road marathon though. For my 10 mile road race Sunday it will be upper 40's F so I don't expect I'll need any water or nutrition at all until the end.
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    2020 might be my last ROAD marathon. I still plan to do some 50ks in the woods, but the road just beats you up so much more than the tail. So I guess I am part of the decline! Go team! :smiley:

    While my first love will always be the trails, and ultras, I still enjoy paved running particularly when I can run on a paved trail with no traffic concerns and zone out, listen to music, or meditate. I definitely need to do the Twin Cities Marathon sometime, and I've found three marathons over three consecutive weekends in October that I'd like to do someday. I
  • kgirlhart
    kgirlhart Posts: 4,977 Member
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    @143tobe Congratulations on your PR! Great race and great race report!
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
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    RunsOnEspresso wrote: »
    T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    girlinahat wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Nike's new ad, dedicated to the back of the pack, worth a watch:

    this may not be the effect that Nike wanted, but all I take from that ad is 'what disgusting human beings who think littering is suddenly okay because they are in a race and someone else is going to clean up after us' #runclean #carrymyown

    At the orientation I went to for St Jude they flat out told you to throw the cups on the ground, because they don’t want runners clogging up the path next to the trash cans. They have a sweeper for a reason.

    Many trail races require runners to carry hydration and just use the aid stations to refill. I know it isn't the same as road races, but I demand to carry a bottle no matter where I run. I mix electrolytes sometimes and I don't just drink when at an aid station.

    As to the environmental aspect, I suppose it is not different between having cleaners vs. having a trash can, assuming the cups are contained and don't get blown away before they can be picked up. It makes me cringe, still, but I can acknowledge that there is no objective difference in th end result. Personally, I prefer cup-less races anyway.

    I'm not competing at a level where taking 20s to fill my cup is going to make a difference. The elites up front can have their cups to snatch while moving, but put out quik-fill machines for those of us who prefer. Then we can have it both ways...

    The trail series I do is cupless. They had a reusable cup as swag one race and they just put a big Gatorade thing of water on the course to fill from.

    I love the idea of cupless races but logistically can't see something like rock n roll series working. Just the number of runners alone is hard enough for volunteers to keep up with cups. I imagine the issues that would come with everyone trying to fill up. 🤷🏼‍♀️

    The Glacier Half Marathon is cupless and that company (Vacation Races) has quick-pour machines to move quickly despite having large volumes of runners. I have not done RnR, but I can see this working at Revel and others with similar volumes at aid stations.

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