Coronavirus prep
Replies
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »Another observation about cognitive style:
Everyone here knows that guidance on the usefulness of masks in the general population has been shifting.
I'm interpreting this as a sign of the intensive high-speed research going on, and new results constantly coming out from it, looking at how the virus can be transmitted (theoretically), how it actually is commonly transmitted in practical terms, how long it persists in viable form on varying surfaces under varying conditions, how the human factors affect mask use (like, do people touch their face more because masks shift around, do people shift behavior in a riskier direction with protective gear, do people use masks correctly or in ways that make things worse (reuse, unsanitary handling, wearing until wet from breath, and more), etc.), what the effect of masks is on getting the virus is vs. transmitting it to others, concern about mask supplies if there's a public run on the supply, what implications the viral load question has in this context, and so forth.
Some of my friends (on other social networks) seem to be taking the shifting advice about masks as a sign that experts are flip-floppers who can't agree or even make up their minds, are probably hiding something from us, or - at an extreme, among those few friends who never met a conspiracy theory that doesn't appeal to them - even are tricking us because they want us to get sick and die.
Yes, my friend/relative set is very diverse. Right now, that's even a little scarier than usual.
I think that (1) the importance of trying to ensure that supplies of medical masks were not bought up and hoarded by the general public caused a lot of the messaging aimed at achieving that end to be skewed and obviously counterintuitive ("Wait, they're saying masks can protect doctors and nurses but they don't work to protect the rest of us? What?") which in turn made it difficult for some people to trust that message and (2) despite the importance of flattening the curve, those managing the message that the general public shouldn't be wearing masks completely overlooked the value of masks in helping keep the asympomatic, presymptomatic, and the mildly symptomatic from passing the disease on.
If someone knows better than me, please correct me, but my impression is that medical personnel in operating rooms wear surgical masks to keep from infecting the patient they're cutting open, not generally to protect themselves from whatever the patient might have.
I don't think the prime thing that is changing the message is new evidence that changes the best practice.
I think the prime thing that is changing the message is that those managing the message are finally waking up to (2) above and the fact that we ought to be assuming that everyone, including ourselves, is infected.
I don't disagree with you about the thrust of the messaging, or that it likely initially had a manipulative component.
I can't give you cites because my source was listening to NPR and BBC on radio, but I believe there's a new study out in just the last few days showing potentially-infecting particles from coughs/sneezes traveling much farther than previously thought (like twice as far), plus some fairly new information about the nature of virus shedding by people who are still asymptomatic.
But those aren't really about mask efficacy, I don't think? If it were true that masks don't work for the general public, then they're not going to suddenly become helpful if particles are traveling farther than they thought. Maybe I'm missing your point about how this relates.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by new information about the nature of virus shedding who are still asympomatic -- some kind of details about how much they shed or how early? Because health officials have been saying for a couple of months that asymptomatic people can spread the disease.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/02/georgia-gov-brian-kemp-who-resisted-strict-coronavirus-measures-says-he-just-learned-it-transmitted-asymptomatically/
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I can't give you cites because my source was listening to NPR and BBC on radio, but I believe there's a new study out in just the last few days showing potentially-infecting particles from coughs/sneezes traveling much farther than previously thought (like twice as far), plus some fairly new information about the nature of virus shedding by people who are still asymptomatic.
You are referring to this, I believe https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763852?appId=scweb
and this https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/31/824155179/cdc-director-on-models-for-the-months-to-come-this-virus-is-going-to-be-with-us
Thank you. The JAMA paper sounds like it may be what I heard mentioned in passing, and while I don't think I heard the Redfield interview or a focused news item about it, that's consistent with what I did hear in the reports.
Normally, if I hear something on NPR/BBC/other audio source, I can find the story in a text or audio snip on their web sites, and would include it in a post. In this case, I hadn't zeroed in on the radio items for follow up when it occurred, had the radio on all day, had no idea what service/program mentioned it. Appreciate you being a better researcher! :flowerforyou:
Shifting gears:
Throughout all of this rapidly evolving public-policy response, I'm aware that we (including me) sometimes aren't able to acknowledge in our guts that scientists and public officials are human beings, who, like us, can be confused, communicate poorly, change their minds (and should, BTW), and generally make mistakes. Keeping that in mind is especially difficult in a context where some officials clearly are negligent, willfully ill-informed or self-dealing actors. (I won't go further than the generality, avoiding the politics prohibition here - and my intent is not partisan anyway, as IMO all large-scale groups include a segment of idiots and scoundrels.)
Of course, their mistakes are high-stakes and incredibly costly (in lives!) at a time like this. They've taken on the job (like doctors, or police, or others whose jobs routinely involve life and death matters), so we can hold them to high standards, but holding them to inhumanly high standards is just unrealistic. (Not saying we can't or shouldn't hold them accountable for even well-intended actions that turn out to have disastrous consequences. We can, and should. With some compassion, IMO. Any decent human who makes a deadly error, and realizes it, has a burden of conscience, as well, possibly life-long.)
Just my dumb opinions, as usual.
Thinking about what I've written on this subject, I hope I didn't come across as though I thought that those behind the messaging on masks were evil or even completely in the wrong. Sadly, I think that to the extent that they were trying to avoid hoarding of medical masks by the general public, they were probably right that there are too many people who would try to do so if given a message of "we need to save medical masks for health care professionals on the front lines, but the rest of you should cover your mouth and nose in public with whatever non-medical or makeshift mask you can find."
Edited to try to fix the quote nesting. I'm seeing so much more of this problem lately that I'm wondering if it's an MFP glitch.6 -
moonangel12 wrote: »Had to venture out, just to Dollar General in search of something to use for ties on masks for my husband’s employees (hoping cheap clothesline will work - it would be puny to use as intended, but for ties hopefully it will work). Overheard a lady loudly (and grumpily) comment “... because it’s not airborne!” Oi... not sure the context, but you could tel she was annoyed for some reason or another. I had a headband/gaiter pulled over my nose and mouth, only saw a couple other people with masks.
Had to go to Google to figure out what "gaiter" must mean to you (to me it's a seldom-heard old-fashioned word for boots/galoshes). So, leggings?
I did a makeshift mask for the first time when I went for a longish walk this evening. I used a fabric headband and made a fold/pocked that I stuffed with a (clean) folded-over sock that has lost its mate. I can't think of anything I have in the house that would likely filter small particles, so I'm hoping extra layers will have an effect. Anyway, I didn't get anywhere close to being within six feet of anyone. At one point I passed a masked woman going the other way on the other side of the street, and we waved silently at each other. Kind of the royal wave, where you just rotate your hand a little.
I feel like I'm fairly low risk for having caught it to pass on, given how few places with people I have gone in the past 18 days, but I had to go to the post office just a couple of days ago. They had "priority mail" package on the floor marking off six-feet intervals, which people were mostly observing. My attitude is that we should all assume everyone could be a carrier, including ourselves, and do what we can not to be part of a transmission chain. Obviously, what is possible in terms of avoiding folks varies.11 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »
WV is supposed to be doing it by packets, but I'm not sure it's going well. Parents are complaining about having to educate their children. Such as this one woman my brother overheard complaining about it, saying "that's what I send them to school for". *sigh* Supposedly, graduation and prom has been postponed to July. Personally, I kind of hope they decide to start the school year early this year, so the kids can catch up - instead of mid August, restart in mid-July or even right after the 4th. I doubt it, though.
As a teacher, I also believe that formal education should happen at school and/or with teachers unless one chooses to homeschool. But not everyone is able or willing to homeschool (obviously) for many, many reasons.
I'm wondering how many parents today were taught math like it is taught now. For example,
? = 56 + 37
=[50 + 6] + 37
=[50 + 6] + [30 + 7]
= 50 + [6 +30] + 7
= 50 + [30 + 6] + 7
= [50 + 30] + [6 + 7]
= 80 + 13
= 80+ [10 + 3]
= [80 + 10] + 3
= 90 + 3
= 93
I recall that the way I learned some content was very different than the way my parents learned it, and the way my kids learn it is different than the way I learned it.
It's fine if you are helping your kid with homework all along and you are seeing how they are being taught. But what happens if your child has done just fine on their own and didn't need help, and suddenly in 4th grade is struggling? There you are, trying to teach them to write
56
+37
______
And you're telling them to "carry the 1."
I would not have known about common core math at lower grades except I work with students who sometimes are at those grade levels. I had to learn quickly how to teach it the way they were already being taught. And geometry doesn't involve proofs anymore; who knew?
Maybe I'm a lot older and many of you have been taught this way--I don't know. I just know that what is taught and how it is taught changes, and a lot of folks might struggle to figure out what the heck their child is trying to do when it is obvious to the parent how to do it their own way.
That's really interesting. That definitely not how I learned to do it in school (1960s); I learned that "carry the one" thing.
But the stepwise thing is much closer to how I do arithmetic in my head, and have as a practical matter for my whole adult life. (I wouldn't do every single one of the steps you show, but I definitely simplify the addends to ones that are easier to add in my head.)
I pretty much can only do the "carry the one" method on paper, not in my head.
Apparently other people's mileage varies.
That's exactly what I was going to say. I learned "carry the one" as a kid, and that's the method I would still use generally on paper, say if were making entries in my checkbook. But if wanted to add 56 and 37 in my head, I would do an abbreviated version of what bmeadows demonstrated (or maybe mkculs -- the nesting and quoting seems to have gotten messed up on this subthread) -- I would think "56 and 30 is 86, 86 and 7 is 93.5 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »
WV is supposed to be doing it by packets, but I'm not sure it's going well. Parents are complaining about having to educate their children. Such as this one woman my brother overheard complaining about it, saying "that's what I send them to school for". *sigh* Supposedly, graduation and prom has been postponed to July. Personally, I kind of hope they decide to start the school year early this year, so the kids can catch up - instead of mid August, restart in mid-July or even right after the 4th. I doubt it, though.
As a teacher, I also believe that formal education should happen at school and/or with teachers unless one chooses to homeschool. But not everyone is able or willing to homeschool (obviously) for many, many reasons.
I'm wondering how many parents today were taught math like it is taught now. For example,
? = 56 + 37
=[50 + 6] + 37
=[50 + 6] + [30 + 7]
= 50 + [6 +30] + 7
= 50 + [30 + 6] + 7
= [50 + 30] + [6 + 7]
= 80 + 13
= 80+ [10 + 3]
= [80 + 10] + 3
= 90 + 3
= 93
I recall that the way I learned some content was very different than the way my parents learned it, and the way my kids learn it is different than the way I learned it.
It's fine if you are helping your kid with homework all along and you are seeing how they are being taught. But what happens if your child has done just fine on their own and didn't need help, and suddenly in 4th grade is struggling? There you are, trying to teach them to write
56
+37
______
And you're telling them to "carry the 1."
I would not have known about common core math at lower grades except I work with students who sometimes are at those grade levels. I had to learn quickly how to teach it the way they were already being taught. And geometry doesn't involve proofs anymore; who knew?
Maybe I'm a lot older and many of you have been taught this way--I don't know. I just know that what is taught and how it is taught changes, and a lot of folks might struggle to figure out what the heck their child is trying to do when it is obvious to the parent how to do it their own way.
That's really interesting. That definitely not how I learned to do it in school (1960s); I learned that "carry the one" thing.
But the stepwise thing is much closer to how I do arithmetic in my head, and have as a practical matter for my whole adult life. (I wouldn't do every single one of the steps you show, but I definitely simplify the addends to ones that are easier to add in my head.)
I pretty much can only do the "carry the one" method on paper, not in my head.
Apparently other people's mileage varies.
Yeah, I was taught the carry the one thing, and am pretty good at addition in my head, and the new thing, which I'd not seen before, seems quite intuitive to me. I'd think you should be able to learn either way and have the other make sense.
I think that's true for people to whom math -- or arithmetic, anyway -- is intuitive in the first place. There are people for whom math does not seem to be intuitive at all. I tend to think that learning more than one way to do a problem like that would help at least some people get to a more intuitive understanding, but it's possible there are some folks for whom it will never be intuitive. Like people who don't have a good sense of direction or spatial relationships.2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »moonangel12 wrote: »Had to venture out, .... I had a headband/gaiter pulled over my nose and mouth, only saw a couple other people with masks.
Had to go to Google to figure out what "gaiter" must mean to you (to me it's a seldom-heard old-fashioned word for boots/galoshes). So, leggings?
Fyi a neck gater is a cylinder of a generally sweat wicking and stretching material that can be used as a scarf, ear cover, headband, headcover , or mask. Often called a Buff but that is also a brand name.
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »moonangel12 wrote: »Had to venture out, .... I had a headband/gaiter pulled over my nose and mouth, only saw a couple other people with masks.
Had to go to Google to figure out what "gaiter" must mean to you (to me it's a seldom-heard old-fashioned word for boots/galoshes). So, leggings?
Fyi a neck gater is a cylinder of a generally sweat wicking and stretching material that can be used as a scarf, ear cover, headband, headcover , or mask. Often called a Buff but that is also a brand name.
Thank you -- I like knowing the little ways English differs between countries and regions. I know I've seen that sort of multifunctional cylinder, but I can't pull a name for them out of my brain. I don't think in my neck of the woods we'd call it a gaiter. Snood, maybe? Although that can also be a much smaller piece of fabric for holding hair in a bun.
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snowflake954 wrote: »Update from Italy: New cases still going down in the North, deaths still high. New cases slightly higher in the South, but numbers are nowhere near the North. Fingers crossed.
Now there's talk about "Phase 2"---what will happen after April 13th, when things slowly start to open up. There are ideas here about testing to see who has had the virus. The reason being that those people should be able to circulate liberally. So, these people will have to have a certificate verifying that they have resistance to the virus. This will entail testing of the general public. Those who have not had the virus will be restricted until a vaccine is available. This will also help with vaccine numbers, and data in general on COV19.
that's interesting. Have scientists settled whether or not someone who's had it once can get it again or not? The last I hear was some weeks ago, and it was still being debated.1 -
It’s generally called a buff by runners. Buff is a brand name for a knit tube which can be worn several ways.lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »moonangel12 wrote: »Had to venture out, .... I had a headband/gaiter pulled over my nose and mouth, only saw a couple other people with masks.
Had to go to Google to figure out what "gaiter" must mean to you (to me it's a seldom-heard old-fashioned word for boots/galoshes). So, leggings?
Fyi a neck gater is a cylinder of a generally sweat wicking and stretching material that can be used as a scarf, ear cover, headband, headcover , or mask. Often called a Buff but that is also a brand name.
Thank you -- I like knowing the little ways English differs between countries and regions. I know I've seen that sort of multifunctional cylinder, but I can't pull a name for them out of my brain. I don't think in my neck of the woods we'd call it a gaiter. Snood, maybe? Although that can also be a much smaller piece of fabric for holding hair in a bun.
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I'm wondering how many parents today were taught math like it is taught now. For example,
? = 56 + 37
=[50 + 6] + 37
=[50 + 6] + [30 + 7]
= 50 + [6 +30] + 7
= 50 + [30 + 6] + 7
= [50 + 30] + [6 + 7]
= 80 + 13
= 80+ [10 + 3]
= [80 + 10] + 3
= 90 + 3
= 93
I recall that the way I learned some content was very different than the way my parents learned it, and the way my kids learn it is different than the way I learned it.
It's fine if you are helping your kid with homework all along and you are seeing how they are being taught. But what happens if your child has done just fine on their own and didn't need help, and suddenly in 4th grade is struggling? There you are, trying to teach them to write
56
+37
______
And you're telling them to "carry the 1."
OMG - as a parent who (a few years ago) tried to help my kiddo with math, and by the end of it we were both in frustrated tears, +1.My emotions are so on edge these days. I saw on Facebook that a childhood friend's father passed away from COVID-19. I didn't know her father, and I'm not all that close to her anymore, but I started crying when I read it.
Poor lady was diagnosed with PPMS 6 months ago and now had her father die. Crappity crap crap. Between that and ridiculous work stress this week, all I want to do is drink and play video games.
Hugs to you. I've been feeling on edge too. Extra long bike rides and a few "30-days" programs have helped.3 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »
WV is supposed to be doing it by packets, but I'm not sure it's going well. Parents are complaining about having to educate their children. Such as this one woman my brother overheard complaining about it, saying "that's what I send them to school for". *sigh* Supposedly, graduation and prom has been postponed to July. Personally, I kind of hope they decide to start the school year early this year, so the kids can catch up - instead of mid August, restart in mid-July or even right after the 4th. I doubt it, though.
As a teacher, I also believe that formal education should happen at school and/or with teachers unless one chooses to homeschool. But not everyone is able or willing to homeschool (obviously) for many, many reasons.
I'm wondering how many parents today were taught math like it is taught now. For example,
? = 56 + 37
=[50 + 6] + 37
=[50 + 6] + [30 + 7]
= 50 + [6 +30] + 7
= 50 + [30 + 6] + 7
= [50 + 30] + [6 + 7]
= 80 + 13
= 80+ [10 + 3]
= [80 + 10] + 3
= 90 + 3
= 93
I recall that the way I learned some content was very different than the way my parents learned it, and the way my kids learn it is different than the way I learned it.
It's fine if you are helping your kid with homework all along and you are seeing how they are being taught. But what happens if your child has done just fine on their own and didn't need help, and suddenly in 4th grade is struggling? There you are, trying to teach them to write
56
+37
______
And you're telling them to "carry the 1."
I would not have known about common core math at lower grades except I work with students who sometimes are at those grade levels. I had to learn quickly how to teach it the way they were already being taught. And geometry doesn't involve proofs anymore; who knew?
Maybe I'm a lot older and many of you have been taught this way--I don't know. I just know that what is taught and how it is taught changes, and a lot of folks might struggle to figure out what the heck their child is trying to do when it is obvious to the parent how to do it their own way.
That's really interesting. That definitely not how I learned to do it in school (1960s); I learned that "carry the one" thing.
But the stepwise thing is much closer to how I do arithmetic in my head, and have as a practical matter for my whole adult life. (I wouldn't do every single one of the steps you show, but I definitely simplify the addends to ones that are easier to add in my head.)
I pretty much can only do the "carry the one" method on paper, not in my head.
Apparently other people's mileage varies.
Me too. I have a friend who is a high school math teacher, and she says that as common core math was rolled out, she could tell a huge difference year to year as students were taught this more intuitive way to do math. I think most adults come to eventually do it the common core way - in spite of the appearance of longer steps, it's a mental short cut.
So, in my head: 56+37? well, 50+30 is 80, and 6+7 is 13... so 80+13 is 93... Boom. Way easier than trying to carry the 1 without a pencil and paper.6 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »
WV is supposed to be doing it by packets, but I'm not sure it's going well. Parents are complaining about having to educate their children. Such as this one woman my brother overheard complaining about it, saying "that's what I send them to school for". *sigh* Supposedly, graduation and prom has been postponed to July. Personally, I kind of hope they decide to start the school year early this year, so the kids can catch up - instead of mid August, restart in mid-July or even right after the 4th. I doubt it, though.
As a teacher, I also believe that formal education should happen at school and/or with teachers unless one chooses to homeschool. But not everyone is able or willing to homeschool (obviously) for many, many reasons.
I'm wondering how many parents today were taught math like it is taught now. For example,
? = 56 + 37
=[50 + 6] + 37
=[50 + 6] + [30 + 7]
= 50 + [6 +30] + 7
= 50 + [30 + 6] + 7
= [50 + 30] + [6 + 7]
= 80 + 13
= 80+ [10 + 3]
= [80 + 10] + 3
= 90 + 3
= 93
I recall that the way I learned some content was very different than the way my parents learned it, and the way my kids learn it is different than the way I learned it.
It's fine if you are helping your kid with homework all along and you are seeing how they are being taught. But what happens if your child has done just fine on their own and didn't need help, and suddenly in 4th grade is struggling? There you are, trying to teach them to write
56
+37
______
And you're telling them to "carry the 1."
I would not have known about common core math at lower grades except I work with students who sometimes are at those grade levels. I had to learn quickly how to teach it the way they were already being taught. And geometry doesn't involve proofs anymore; who knew?
Maybe I'm a lot older and many of you have been taught this way--I don't know. I just know that what is taught and how it is taught changes, and a lot of folks might struggle to figure out what the heck their child is trying to do when it is obvious to the parent how to do it their own way.
That's really interesting. That definitely not how I learned to do it in school (1960s); I learned that "carry the one" thing.
But the stepwise thing is much closer to how I do arithmetic in my head, and have as a practical matter for my whole adult life. (I wouldn't do every single one of the steps you show, but I definitely simplify the addends to ones that are easier to add in my head.)
I pretty much can only do the "carry the one" method on paper, not in my head.
Apparently other people's mileage varies.
Me too. I have a friend who is a high school math teacher, and she says that as common core math was rolled out, she could tell a huge difference year to year as students were taught this more intuitive way to do math. I think most adults come to eventually do it the common core way - in spite of the appearance of longer steps, it's a mental short cut.
So, in my head: 56+37? well, 50+30 is 80, and 6+7 is 13... so 80+13 is 93... Boom. Way easier than trying to carry the 1 without a pencil and paper.
I still carry one in my head for any calculations that don't result in multiples of 10. For 58+52, for example, I add 8 and 2 (10) then add 50 and 50 (100) then add 10 (110). For everything else, I carry 1. My imagination of numbers is kind of visual. I "write" the equations in my head as I would on paper and "see" it.3 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »
WV is supposed to be doing it by packets, but I'm not sure it's going well. Parents are complaining about having to educate their children. Such as this one woman my brother overheard complaining about it, saying "that's what I send them to school for". *sigh* Supposedly, graduation and prom has been postponed to July. Personally, I kind of hope they decide to start the school year early this year, so the kids can catch up - instead of mid August, restart in mid-July or even right after the 4th. I doubt it, though.
As a teacher, I also believe that formal education should happen at school and/or with teachers unless one chooses to homeschool. But not everyone is able or willing to homeschool (obviously) for many, many reasons.
I'm wondering how many parents today were taught math like it is taught now. For example,
? = 56 + 37
=[50 + 6] + 37
=[50 + 6] + [30 + 7]
= 50 + [6 +30] + 7
= 50 + [30 + 6] + 7
= [50 + 30] + [6 + 7]
= 80 + 13
= 80+ [10 + 3]
= [80 + 10] + 3
= 90 + 3
= 93
I recall that the way I learned some content was very different than the way my parents learned it, and the way my kids learn it is different than the way I learned it.
It's fine if you are helping your kid with homework all along and you are seeing how they are being taught. But what happens if your child has done just fine on their own and didn't need help, and suddenly in 4th grade is struggling? There you are, trying to teach them to write
56
+37
______
And you're telling them to "carry the 1."
I would not have known about common core math at lower grades except I work with students who sometimes are at those grade levels. I had to learn quickly how to teach it the way they were already being taught. And geometry doesn't involve proofs anymore; who knew?
Maybe I'm a lot older and many of you have been taught this way--I don't know. I just know that what is taught and how it is taught changes, and a lot of folks might struggle to figure out what the heck their child is trying to do when it is obvious to the parent how to do it their own way.
That's really interesting. That definitely not how I learned to do it in school (1960s); I learned that "carry the one" thing.
But the stepwise thing is much closer to how I do arithmetic in my head, and have as a practical matter for my whole adult life. (I wouldn't do every single one of the steps you show, but I definitely simplify the addends to ones that are easier to add in my head.)
I pretty much can only do the "carry the one" method on paper, not in my head.
Apparently other people's mileage varies.
Yeah, I was taught the carry the one thing, and am pretty good at addition in my head, and the new thing, which I'd not seen before, seems quite intuitive to me. I'd think you should be able to learn either way and have the other make sense.
Yes, most of common core is the way I always did math in my head.4 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »
WV is supposed to be doing it by packets, but I'm not sure it's going well. Parents are complaining about having to educate their children. Such as this one woman my brother overheard complaining about it, saying "that's what I send them to school for". *sigh* Supposedly, graduation and prom has been postponed to July. Personally, I kind of hope they decide to start the school year early this year, so the kids can catch up - instead of mid August, restart in mid-July or even right after the 4th. I doubt it, though.
As a teacher, I also believe that formal education should happen at school and/or with teachers unless one chooses to homeschool. But not everyone is able or willing to homeschool (obviously) for many, many reasons.
I'm wondering how many parents today were taught math like it is taught now. For example,
? = 56 + 37
=[50 + 6] + 37
=[50 + 6] + [30 + 7]
= 50 + [6 +30] + 7
= 50 + [30 + 6] + 7
= [50 + 30] + [6 + 7]
= 80 + 13
= 80+ [10 + 3]
= [80 + 10] + 3
= 90 + 3
= 93
I recall that the way I learned some content was very different than the way my parents learned it, and the way my kids learn it is different than the way I learned it.
It's fine if you are helping your kid with homework all along and you are seeing how they are being taught. But what happens if your child has done just fine on their own and didn't need help, and suddenly in 4th grade is struggling? There you are, trying to teach them to write
56
+37
______
And you're telling them to "carry the 1."
I would not have known about common core math at lower grades except I work with students who sometimes are at those grade levels. I had to learn quickly how to teach it the way they were already being taught. And geometry doesn't involve proofs anymore; who knew?
Maybe I'm a lot older and many of you have been taught this way--I don't know. I just know that what is taught and how it is taught changes, and a lot of folks might struggle to figure out what the heck their child is trying to do when it is obvious to the parent how to do it their own way.
That's really interesting. That definitely not how I learned to do it in school (1960s); I learned that "carry the one" thing.
But the stepwise thing is much closer to how I do arithmetic in my head, and have as a practical matter for my whole adult life. (I wouldn't do every single one of the steps you show, but I definitely simplify the addends to ones that are easier to add in my head.)
I pretty much can only do the "carry the one" method on paper, not in my head.
Apparently other people's mileage varies.
Me too. I have a friend who is a high school math teacher, and she says that as common core math was rolled out, she could tell a huge difference year to year as students were taught this more intuitive way to do math. I think most adults come to eventually do it the common core way - in spite of the appearance of longer steps, it's a mental short cut.
So, in my head: 56+37? well, 50+30 is 80, and 6+7 is 13... so 80+13 is 93... Boom. Way easier than trying to carry the 1 without a pencil and paper.
I still carry one in my head for any calculations that don't result in multiples of 10. For 58+52, for example, I add 8 and 2 (10) then add 50 and 50 (100) then add 10 (110). For everything else, I carry 1. My imagination of numbers is kind of visual. I "write" the equations in my head as I would on paper and "see" it.
I carry the 1 as well - lining everything up in a column and then adding down the row comes much easier and faster to me, even in my head. Then again, math was never a problem for me, anyway - at least, algebraic, geometric, or calculus type math. Probably, statistics, infinite series, or economic math, on the other hand, I get lost really fast.
How does common core help with fractions and percentages? My sister really struggled with those, and I know of a young lady I went to college with who still could not understand fractions even as a senior in college.
I'm not sure how the world economy can survive a several month shut down. People are now losing their jobs and being laid off; economic stimulus packages can only go so far; I can't imagine how it can be possible to just print a bunch of money and keep giving people checks for the next 6 months to carry them through, and even for those who thought long term and had a good savings nest egg put back, 6 months is going to wipe that completely out.
I understand the necessity of taking weeks for a shut down, but months? In that scenario, I start to lean toward what the best friend believes about sinking the world in another Great Depression.6 -
@bmeadows380 -- Aside from the obvious, the deaths, I'm not sure how the economy will recover either. I know as a small business owner, I'm concerned and I'm conservative as hell. I try to pretend that I need two years worth of income if I do nothing. Now, I've been in business for 10 years and I'm well established. Had this occurred in year one or two of my business, I'd be done for sure.
Snowflake mentioned this earlier. Italy and Germany are already working on this. That 5 minute test will help tell if people have the immunity/antibody or not, issue them a certificate if they have already had it -- NY and NJ have already 50% or more that have already had it based on sample testing. Louisiana is already at 30% of the population and it looks like the entire Midwest has 20% infection rates, already. So "herd" immunity is happening rapidly. Very rapidly, unfortunately.
I think a combination of the rapid testing, getting those back to work will help. But we're still 18 months away from a vaccine, if we ever get one. I have a lot more faith in giving people antibodies that will help them with the severity rather than a true vaccine. Slight difference but I'm reading more skepticism that we will ever have a true vaccine, so the antibody protection might be the best we get. So those that haven't had it can get back to work after they've had a protective antibody shot.
Right now, the immediate need is hurting our long term response. My local hospital, for instance, just asked the public for help with masks. I bought them a lot of KN95 masks from China for their respiratory department. Others are sewing them. People are hungry. Food banks are out of food in NY and NJ and out of volunteers. So many problems to handle at once.
If everyone in the US had the N95 mask and could get back to work, that would be great. I think we will have things like hand sanitizer stations before getting on subways and after, for instance. I think we will figure this out quickly on a state level. We will have to. Summer will slow it some, I think, and give us more time to prepare for Fall. But if they squander the time we have in Summer to prepare, we're all in big trouble financially for a long time, if not permanently.
BTW, as an aside, I enjoy reading nearly all of the very thoughtful posts on here. We have some compassionate, thoughtful folks on MFP. I hope you all stay safe.12 -
The mayor of NYC now recommends covering your nose and mouth if you have to go outside.7
-
Chef_Barbell wrote: »The mayor of NYC now recommends covering your nose and mouth if you have to go outside.
As has the mayor of Los Angeles
https://patch.com/california/hollywood/all-angelenos-should-wear-masks-says-mayor-garcetti4 -
@MikePfirrman I just read an article on the AP about how this is devastating the US auto market, and that the Q2 projections are going to be worse than back when they filed for bankruptcy. And I know that's just the tip of the iceberg. I work in the electrical power industry, and its affecting us too. While residential load has picked up, industrial load has dropped off significantly, which is a large part of revenues for the companies. How far can we realistically take the shutdown? My best friend is right in that the shutdown is harming people as well, so where's the balance point between loss of life due to the virus and loss of life due to economic devastation?
I'm very glad I'm not in a position to have to be making that sort of decision!
The last I heard, there was fear that a person who had been infected with COVI-19 could catch it again, though it would be milder the next time around. I think they suspected this might have happened in China, though the last I heard, they weren't sure if it was truly a re-infection or a case of the man not being completely over it before being discharged. But if its true that you can catch it again but not be as symptomatic as before, wouldn't that actually heightened the problem - I've already seen that a number of people are spreading the virus without showing symptoms as it is now.
I don't think the reality has set in for people yet that this disruption of normal life and new way of living is going to be long term in the course of months. I think most people are still thinking this is only going to last a few weeks and that everything will be back to normal by mid-May. It's rather mind-boggling to think of it lasting into September, October, Christmas.8 -
just_Tomek wrote: »Easter is next week. I already did get my parents upset telling them I will not be coming over for breakfast / dinner.
Anyone else? How many do you think are going to stay home and not visit family / friends???
Hopefully everyone.13 -
well, I'll be having Easter dinner with my folks, but that's because we're quarantining together.
It's going to be odd not to go to church on that day, though4 -
just_Tomek wrote: »Easter is next week. I already did get my parents upset telling them I will not be coming over for breakfast / dinner.
Anyone else? How many do you think are going to stay home and not visit family / friends???
Definitely staying home, sad about it but we have to do this.4 -
just_Tomek wrote: »Easter is next week. I already did get my parents upset telling them I will not be coming over for breakfast / dinner.
Anyone else? How many do you think are going to stay home and not visit family / friends???
I'm Greek, so Easter is a BIG deal. My parents always make a huge lamb roast, potatoes, and green beans all in a tomato-cinnamon sauce that's been simmering all day with the lamb scraps. Plus, spanakopita, dolmathakis, the whole works.
I have to talk to them....my Mom is making noise about still cooking this dinner even though no one can come over and dropping care packages off on our doorsteps. I have to convince her that we just need to have Easter in July this year.
I'm sure she'll still drop off an Easter basket filled with chocolate eggs and other candies. She does this for all of her kids despite us all being 40+ years old. Not that we complain!!11 -
My daughter visited every week until 2/29/20. She’s afraid of bringing it home or exposing us unnecessarily We’re both in our late 60’s. I miss her. No Easter with my sisters and their families either.8
-
just_Tomek wrote: »Easter is next week. I already did get my parents upset telling them I will not be coming over for breakfast / dinner.
Anyone else? How many do you think are going to stay home and not visit family / friends???
Easter is on April 19 for us. How we handle it depends on how things turn out by then. Most likely we're going to celebrate it alone, but who knows, things may get better by then.2 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »
WV is supposed to be doing it by packets, but I'm not sure it's going well. Parents are complaining about having to educate their children. Such as this one woman my brother overheard complaining about it, saying "that's what I send them to school for". *sigh* Supposedly, graduation and prom has been postponed to July. Personally, I kind of hope they decide to start the school year early this year, so the kids can catch up - instead of mid August, restart in mid-July or even right after the 4th. I doubt it, though.
As a teacher, I also believe that formal education should happen at school and/or with teachers unless one chooses to homeschool. But not everyone is able or willing to homeschool (obviously) for many, many reasons.
I'm wondering how many parents today were taught math like it is taught now. For example,
? = 56 + 37
=[50 + 6] + 37
=[50 + 6] + [30 + 7]
= 50 + [6 +30] + 7
= 50 + [30 + 6] + 7
= [50 + 30] + [6 + 7]
= 80 + 13
= 80+ [10 + 3]
= [80 + 10] + 3
= 90 + 3
= 93
I recall that the way I learned some content was very different than the way my parents learned it, and the way my kids learn it is different than the way I learned it.
It's fine if you are helping your kid with homework all along and you are seeing how they are being taught. But what happens if your child has done just fine on their own and didn't need help, and suddenly in 4th grade is struggling? There you are, trying to teach them to write
56
+37
______
And you're telling them to "carry the 1."
I would not have known about common core math at lower grades except I work with students who sometimes are at those grade levels. I had to learn quickly how to teach it the way they were already being taught. And geometry doesn't involve proofs anymore; who knew?
Maybe I'm a lot older and many of you have been taught this way--I don't know. I just know that what is taught and how it is taught changes, and a lot of folks might struggle to figure out what the heck their child is trying to do when it is obvious to the parent how to do it their own way.
That's really interesting. That definitely not how I learned to do it in school (1960s); I learned that "carry the one" thing.
But the stepwise thing is much closer to how I do arithmetic in my head, and have as a practical matter for my whole adult life. (I wouldn't do every single one of the steps you show, but I definitely simplify the addends to ones that are easier to add in my head.)
I pretty much can only do the "carry the one" method on paper, not in my head.
Apparently other people's mileage varies.
Me too. I have a friend who is a high school math teacher, and she says that as common core math was rolled out, she could tell a huge difference year to year as students were taught this more intuitive way to do math. I think most adults come to eventually do it the common core way - in spite of the appearance of longer steps, it's a mental short cut.
So, in my head: 56+37? well, 50+30 is 80, and 6+7 is 13... so 80+13 is 93... Boom. Way easier than trying to carry the 1 without a pencil and paper.
I still carry one in my head for any calculations that don't result in multiples of 10. For 58+52, for example, I add 8 and 2 (10) then add 50 and 50 (100) then add 10 (110). For everything else, I carry 1. My imagination of numbers is kind of visual. I "write" the equations in my head as I would on paper and "see" it.
I add like a bowling scorekeeper does when I add in my head. For example: 49+47. I add 50 to 47, then subtract 1 to make 96. Longer strings of numbers get added the same way. I add the first two, then add the next to that number, then the next. If I have a written list but no pencil I will do it similar to you.1 -
BTW, don't know if anyone else saw this but they government just did an about face on the KN95 masks (China's equivalent to the N95 -- some say with more leakage, but 3M has said in a disaster that they are adequate). The FDA just allowed us to use them and buy them in the US. That will help hospitals a lot with supplies that they desperately need. Personally, I feel it was all political not allowing the KN95s to be used. They are in ample supply where the N95s aren't. Hospitals all over are threatening docs and nurses that they will be fired if they complain about lack of PPE, which isn't just sad, it's evil. Those people risking their lives for us are having their jobs threatened if they don't go in and put their own lives at risk. That is so shameful that the US will never outlive that shame, IMHO.10
-
Chef_Barbell wrote: »The mayor of NYC now recommends covering your nose and mouth if you have to go outside.
I read this and had to "snort" (in my mask).5 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »The mayor of NYC now recommends covering your nose and mouth if you have to go outside.
As has the mayor of Los Angeles
https://patch.com/california/hollywood/all-angelenos-should-wear-masks-says-mayor-garcetti
Two "snorts". These geniuses have finally figured out the obvious.4 -
just_Tomek wrote: »Easter is next week. I already did get my parents upset telling them I will not be coming over for breakfast / dinner.
Anyone else? How many do you think are going to stay home and not visit family / friends???
Our lockdown will purposely not be lifted until right after Easter, otherwise a mass of Italians would be on the move to return to their ancestorial small towns for the holidays, go to summer homes to open up and take long walks, or go to restaurants with family. This would spread any infection far and wide again, and the Italians would not resist the temptation. May 1st is also a huge workers holiday here and the government is busy putting the brakes on that one too.8 -
So much doublespeak or doubletalk. Now they're telling everyone that wearing a mask protects others from 'you' but that road runs both directions. I knew on day one that masks and gloves offer protection but there's not enough to go around. I've been improvising since the dawn came to light as I've been taking care of others for years.
@MikePfirrman Do you know if pneumonia and shingle shots offer any protection vs. having none.2
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