Coronavirus prep

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  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,416 Member
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    cmriverside wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    KrissCanDoThis wrote: »
    So when they open these areas up in the places with no cases, would they stop people from traveling to them to shop? I would be worried that an asymptomatic person would go shopping and accidentally create cases in a city trying to open.

    They will be closed off. No one is allowed in or out.

    How does that work? Do you have that many government officials that they can stop people at every road? In the U.S. people would just go anyway. But then the amount of tom-foolery-you're-not-the-boss-of-me going on here cannot be over-stated.

    The army forces are involved. It's a small country so the number of provinces is small (12), and each province has limited points of entry by car. Currently, only people with permits are allowed to drive, and even fewer have permits to drive between provinces. A close off means even stricter rules for entry.

    With all known cases currently quarantined in hospitals, and all buildings/streets that had several cases quarantined off by the army to anticipate any potential silent cases, the risk is there, but smaller. Things are under control, for now, but if some undiscovered pockets emerge, they'll hopefully be localized to an area because of driving restrictions. Some people do break the rules, but the fear of temporarily losing their car keeps many people within a few kilometers of their house.

    Interesting. That so wouldn't work here. :neutral: For about a thousand different reasons, of course.
  • Unicorn_Bacon
    Unicorn_Bacon Posts: 491 Member
    cmriverside wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    cmriverside wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    KrissCanDoThis wrote: »
    So when they open these areas up in the places with no cases, would they stop people from traveling to them to shop? I would be worried that an asymptomatic person would go shopping and accidentally create cases in a city trying to open.

    They will be closed off. No one is allowed in or out.

    How does that work? Do you have that many government officials that they can stop people at every road? In the U.S. people would just go anyway. But then the amount of tom-foolery-you're-not-the-boss-of-me going on here cannot be over-stated.

    The army forces are involved. It's a small country so the number of provinces is small (12), and each province has limited points of entry by car. Currently, only people with permits are allowed to drive, and even fewer have permits to drive between provinces. A close off means even stricter rules for entry.

    With all known cases currently quarantined in hospitals, and all buildings/streets that had several cases quarantined off by the army to anticipate any potential silent cases, the risk is there, but smaller. Things are under control, for now, but if some undiscovered pockets emerge, they'll hopefully be localized to an area because of driving restrictions. Some people do break the rules, but the fear of temporarily losing their car keeps many people within a few kilometers of their house.

    Interesting. That so wouldn't work here. :neutral: For about a thousand different reasons, of course.

    Wouldnt work here either... likely for the same reasons. Lol
  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,171 Member
    THIS is why our Governor just issued an order extending the Safer At Home order until May 26.

    nx4r0kb4sw7a.jpg
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    KrissCanDoThis wrote: »
    I was just reading in the news that one of the facilities that is owned by the company I work for had to evacuate a second floor in order to quarantine residents who have tested positive, they weren't expecting it to spread the way it has with how strict everything is and only had 20 beds, now they need 38..

    I really hope it doesnt make it to my building because the one that has it right now... it's basically a high rise style building with many many floors..

    Ours is 2 floors =/

    I read that the biggest nursing home in New Jersey, where it has spread quickly for residents and staff, had 17 bodies stacked in a morgue designed for only 4 bodies. They couldn't get body bags fast enough for everyone dying.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    It's much better than it sounds lol. People hear army and think scary. They're being utilized as personnel, nothing more. The worst that can happen is getting your car taken away for a month and be driven home in a police car. The current measures are extreme because the situation is extreme. According to the latest independent polls, a little over 70% of the people are happy with the way this is being handled, financial complaints aside.

    FWIW, I think a number of the reasons this wouldn't work here have nothing to do with anti-authoritarianism. Just one example: In lots of parts of the US and Canada, we have way, way too many roads, for me to even imagine how this could work, not to mention lakes and rivers that connect things. People can be quite creative in using these. Technology is better now, but there were many reasons why bootlegging during prohibition was impossible to shut down. This is one of them.

    That makes sense. I'm sure there may be places where you could probably sneak in, but none that I know of. Most people wouldn't want to go through the trouble anyway because if you're not caught at guarded entry points you may get caught in the city you're trying to sneak into, although who knows.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    edited April 2020
    cmriverside wrote: »
    Well yeah, and JOrdan is a monarchy and there are 9.5 million people total and they caught it early.

    Far different from the U.S. with 362 million people, 50 different governments but one government, two large countries with which we share a mostly un-protectable border, (not to mention the proximity to Russia across the straight and Cuba across a few miles of ocean.) and we have a million or so infected with no way to contain it other than social distancing that isn't enforceable because reasons.

    This is very true. What's being done here wouldn't work in many countries. It wouldn't even work here if we hadn't caught it early. It may even stop working if things explode in two weeks and they may need to change their strategies.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,225 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Worst death day yet here (IL) with 125 additional deaths. Total new cases are down a bit with 1140.

    That brings IL's total to 25,733 positive, and 1072 deaths. Chicago alone has 10,642 cases and 414 deaths. The rest of Cook County has 7445 cases and 308 deaths. My zip code alone has 253 cases (number of deaths not reported). To put that in perspective, my zip code is roughly 2.5 miles x 2.75 miles, so under 7 square miles. That works out to about 37 known cases per square mile. Right now, about 17% of statewide cases are being hospitalized, and about 5% of known cases are in the ICU. They are now saying they are finally able to test enough to test anyone who believes they have symptoms (even without a doctor's referral), so I expect the total number of cases to go up but the percentage of cases that end up in the hospital and ICU to go down.

    In a city setting, putting that in "cases per square mile" is pretty daunting, IMO . . . and those are just known cases. I didn't go back to read, but I assume your area is still rationing testing to some extent, so mild or asymptomatic cases might not be in the "known cases" numbers.

    If one were thinking about that as "what if we were wandering freely in those few blocks, how likely we meet one of them" . . . yikes. I know there are a lot of people in that space, but the "not wandering freely" part seems pretty important.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,225 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    spiriteagle99 wrote: »
    (snip)
    One of the issues people had with the Michigan Governor, as I understand it, is that she made purchasing seeds and plants illegal. I understand the problem of trying to keep people from going out shopping, but now is the time to plant seeds for gardens. Some things can't wait until July. Hiring someone to mow your lawn was also forbidden, which hurts people who can't do it themselves.

    Two things:

    1. In my understanding (sitting in Michigan, and having actually read the executive orders as well as some analysis, I believe this not to be strictly true. Big box "department" stores, ones that sell a diversity of things including a range of essential ones (groceries, hardware) have been ordered to close access to areas selling certain products (including plants/seeds). This was in response to problems with what amount to recreational shoppers wandering the stores and looking at, maybe buying, all kinds of nonessential items, increasing human contact in various ways by doing so.

    Plants and seeds are still available by mail, and in my understanding in some cases from smaller retailers (so far) who are required limit traffic in a different way based on floor space and concurrent customer counts. (I have friends who have bought seeds very recently in these circumstances locally).

    2. In most of Michigan, it is not the time of year to plant gardens, in the way that the average person does it. Most people wait to plant until at least the average last frost date, and very many traditionally wait until Memorial Day weekend. Some do start plants indoors, but it's far less common, and some of those who do, are seed-savers.

    (I'm in the central mid-Southern part of the state, near Lansing, one of the warmer zones, but not the warmest anywhere statewide. Our average last frost day (50% probability) is somewhere in the May 4-10 range. There are certain things that dedicated gardeners (a minority) would normally plant out now, such as peas and greens. Most casual home gardeners simply don't bother doing that. I know many such gardeners, and used to garden here myself for over a decade, at different times on either the casual or dedicated end of the scale. Some true plant nerds may be troubled, but frankly quite a few of them order seeds by mail from specialty sources anyway, vs. picking them up at Home Depot or Meijer, which tend to specialize in crappy but inexpensive seeds not tailored to our climate.)

    Once you filter out the seed savers, and the folks who would've used specialty mail-order sources, the number of people who'd genuinely plant this early is fairly small. I grant that this population is probably larger out-state (such as the farther North, where partial-subsistence gardens are more common), and Covid cases are also less numerous, so a sense of aggrievement in those areas may be more understandable. Those folks may also be more reliant on big-box stores as a source.

    Things are difficult and controversial here, and certain people/groups are using partial truths, sometimes even falsehoods, to paint a picture. It's good to be careful. Some people ignore authoritative sources of information, and rely on biased ones. Some people have poor reading comprehension (current interpretation of the executive orders as I understand them requires understanding how major points in an outline-style presentation relate to minor sub-points below them, and perhaps even to how one date's order modifies an earlier one.)

    I'm not even 100% confident of my interpretation of the current executive orders, but certain retailers are behaving in line with what I wrote above, and as of when I last looked (couple of days ago) there had been no countering clarification to the executive orders. That may change.

    FWIW, and recognizing that some people do still consider it a "MSM biased source", Politifact seems generally to agree with this (above) interpretation of Michigan's current executive orders.

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/facebook-posts/covid-order-doesnt-ban-gardening-or-sale-seeds-and/

    On the weather front, BTW, and whether it's planting season: Snowed here yesterday (hard, for a while). Snowed again overnight, more in the forecast. It melts, in between, especially if there's sun, but we're still looking at overnight temps in the 20s F, i.e., below freezing, on a lot of days. Today, daytime temp, even with some sun, didn't get up to 40F. More snow in some other parts of the state, compared to here, including snow cover that persists. That won't kill all cool-weather crops, especially if they're covered when most extreme things happen, but I think it supports why I say this isn't planting time for the casual home gardener. It's fussy to cover and uncover things . . . worth it to some, of course.
  • Unicorn_Bacon
    Unicorn_Bacon Posts: 491 Member
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    KrissCanDoThis wrote: »
    Speaking of reasons..

    The other day I went to the grocery store to pick up a few things, I didnt have many bags, unlike my last trip where it took me 7 trips back and forth to get everything inside...

    So I'm waiting for my cab, he shows up, and immediately walks right over to my cart right behind me pretty much shoulder to shoulder to grab some of my bags.

    I said "it's okay, I got them" but he took them anyway.

    So I get in the car and I see no disinfecting wipes or sanitizer, no masks no gloves.. nothing.

    We get to my place and after I pay him, I get out and go around to get the bags and again he gets out and comes right up beside me and grabs some bags

    Again I said "it's okay I can take them" and he said no no, I will carry them to your place, and I said no, it's fine, i can handle them.

    I basically had to pry my bags from his hands.

    I honestly wouldnt think.. at this point that i would have to be blunt and state the obvious about social distancing... as it's been everywhere you go for weeks. So it surprised me that twice he gave no thought to himself or me..

    In trying to be a gentleman he removed my ability twice to maintain my own 6 feet of space.

    I dont know if he just didnt get it? Or if he just didnt care. But it's people like that, that would make it hard to reopen parts of the city or county without them just coming into that space.

    I was pretty mad.. last thing I need is to catch this just before I return to work because someone else just didnt care or doesnt take it seriously enough.

    All i could think was... what if he had done this for all his passengers? Then by being that close to me, shared it with me cause he picked it up from someone else.... what if I was unlucky enough to bring something home from the store and by him grabbing my bags, hes got it and now sharing it with new passengers.

    I actually wrote a tiny rant about it on my main profile as a vent, and someone that is no longer a friend cause they deleted themselves, condescendingly told me that they Hope I find happiness in my life so I dont blame others.

    So besides the cab driver, here is another person who seems to think violation of space and potential infection from someone else should be invited with love and acceptance.

    I dont blame those who ended up with it, it spread so quickly, and it's been hard to control, but I will get mad at those who dont do their own part to work together to protect those who haven't yet. Its gonna spread enough as it is, just trying to maintain some essential services to live and work, why make it harder?

    Keep your distance. Wash your hands. And those red arrows on the floor at the grocery store indicating which direction the flow of the aisle is.. follow it, dont just barge down the wrong way because you're only getting 1 thing and you dont wanna walk down another aisle just to go in the right direction. It's not hard..

    Lol... so frustrating when I see things like this

    Perhaps a call to the cab company as a gentle reminder, since this has happened more than once.

    Oh, well no, only the once, lol you read my rant the other day I'm sure, that's who I'm talking about lol
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Worst death day yet here (IL) with 125 additional deaths. Total new cases are down a bit with 1140.

    That brings IL's total to 25,733 positive, and 1072 deaths. Chicago alone has 10,642 cases and 414 deaths. The rest of Cook County has 7445 cases and 308 deaths. My zip code alone has 253 cases (number of deaths not reported). To put that in perspective, my zip code is roughly 2.5 miles x 2.75 miles, so under 7 square miles. That works out to about 37 known cases per square mile. Right now, about 17% of statewide cases are being hospitalized, and about 5% of known cases are in the ICU. They are now saying they are finally able to test enough to test anyone who believes they have symptoms (even without a doctor's referral), so I expect the total number of cases to go up but the percentage of cases that end up in the hospital and ICU to go down.

    In a city setting, putting that in "cases per square mile" is pretty daunting, IMO . . . and those are just known cases. I didn't go back to read, but I assume your area is still rationing testing to some extent, so mild or asymptomatic cases might not be in the "known cases" numbers.

    If one were thinking about that as "what if we were wandering freely in those few blocks, how likely we meet one of them" . . . yikes. I know there are a lot of people in that space, but the "not wandering freely" part seems pretty important.

    Yes, we've been rationing cases to doctor's referral, although as of today we are going to be testing anyone who believes they have symptoms.

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