Coronavirus prep
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KrissCanDoThis wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »4th person just died here, all 4 people have been from long term care nursing homes. I fear for the nursing home downtown, owned by the company I work for, they are up to 51 residents infected now and 33 staff members and its growing every day.
They just announced 3 died yesterday at Northwood
hugs
☹ seriously? 3 at once.. my god, how heart breaking. Those poor families... I can only imagine how the staff are feeling..
I know that if it ever got into my facility, even if it wasnt me being the one to bring it, everything I touched or people i gave help to.. I'd be terrified.
What a shame 🥺
There is a nursing home here in town that is now under state investigation and it sounds like they for the most part ignored public health orders. 12 people have died there in the last couple of weeks and 23 employees have tested positive.
It is very sad...it hits home for me personally because my dad spent his life caring for his elders in nursing homes and retirement facilities, and once upon a time he was the facility administrator at this particular nursing home. Getting that job was actually the reason we moved from Nebraska to New Mexico, and he ran that facility with a great deal of pride and passion...sad what it has come to (even before this they have been under a lot of scrutiny the last few years). He passed on 5 years ago, and in a sense I am great-full that he doesn't have to see what the place that he loved so much has become.
That's sad ☹
Especially when someone puts their loved one in a home it's the hardest decision they have to make, not only that the residents have given up their homes and life to trying to fit what they can into a small room.
So when a facility just doesnt do their job in running the place and protecting their residents, and ensuring quality of care, the impact it has not only on the families, but the residents who worked so hard all their lives for the things they have, and can't even have the basic human right of dignity and care... it just astounds me that a collective group of people being witness to that could all be okay with it.
Before the strict rules currently being enforced were put in place, staff where I work knew they had to be on top of it, some even bought black lights to make sure their cleaning was as good as it could be, they asked questions and gained knowledge on how better to improve and took best measures they could. They insisted on stronger cleaning measures early on and better protection with screen and social distancing. To me, there could be no way, that everyone would collectively agree that it was fine without it. And it's extremely unlikely that if the administrator was choosing not to follow the guidelines and protocols that someone wouldnt go up the chain of command to make sure it was fixed.
I'm glad someone is investigating that because something is definitely not right there.
Apparently one of the biggies is that they kept having the same communal meals at the same time they always have instead of staggering and cleaning in between. It hasn't changed much since I was a kid and the dining hall is largely cafeteria. They kept cafeteria dining in place as well as not staggering meal times, so you just have a massive number of people eating all at once from the same trough.2 -
That is a horrible layout.
We have 12 units in my building. Each unit houses 13 residents and each unit has its own dining room area. Each resident has assigned seating.
When social distancing was implemented the tables were separated and some residents were set up with mobile tables, or more tables were brought in and everyone was still able to eat together but remained 6 feet apart.
Meals are delivered hot to the units, 6 get meals delivered at 4:30 and 6 get meals at 5:30. This gives the residents time to eat and time for staff to bring them back to their rooms and for the area to be disinfected before having to serve the next meal across the hall, since we are responsible for 2 units3 -
Same here our worst nursing home has a lot of cases was fined. They had tons of violations for years! Probably remain open continue to destroy.
The best nursing homes here zero cases not a surprise.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »4th person just died here, all 4 people have been from long term care nursing homes. I fear for the nursing home downtown, owned by the company I work for, they are up to 51 residents infected now and 33 staff members and its growing every day.
They just announced 3 died yesterday at Northwood hugs
☹ seriously? 3 at once.. my god, how heart breaking. Those poor families... I can only imagine how the staff are feeling..
I know that if it ever got into my facility, even if it wasnt me being the one to bring it, everything I touched or people i gave help to.. I'd be terrified.
What a shame 🥺
There is a nursing home here in town that is now under state investigation and it sounds like they for the most part ignored public health orders. 12 people have died there in the last couple of weeks and 23 employees have tested positive.
It is very sad...it hits home for me personally because my dad spent his life caring for his elders in nursing homes and retirement facilities, and once upon a time he was the facility administrator at this particular nursing home. Getting that job was actually the reason we moved from Nebraska to New Mexico, and he ran that facility with a great deal of pride and passion...sad what it has come to (even before this they have been under a lot of scrutiny the last few years). He passed on 5 years ago, and in a sense I am great-full that he doesn't have to see what the place that he loved so much has become.
That's sad ☹
Especially when someone puts their loved one in a home it's the hardest decision they have to make, not only that the residents have given up their homes and life to trying to fit what they can into a small room.
So when a facility just doesnt do their job in running the place and protecting their residents, and ensuring quality of care, the impact it has not only on the families, but the residents who worked so hard all their lives for the things they have, and can't even have the basic human right of dignity and care... it just astounds me that a collective group of people being witness to that could all be okay with it.
Before the strict rules currently being enforced were put in place, staff where I work knew they had to be on top of it, some even bought black lights to make sure their cleaning was as good as it could be, they asked questions and gained knowledge on how better to improve and took best measures they could. They insisted on stronger cleaning measures early on and better protection with screen and social distancing. To me, there could be no way, that everyone would collectively agree that it was fine without it. And it's extremely unlikely that if the administrator was choosing not to follow the guidelines and protocols that someone wouldnt go up the chain of command to make sure it was fixed.
I'm glad someone is investigating that because something is definitely not right there.
Apparently one of the biggies is that they kept having the same communal meals at the same time they always have instead of staggering and cleaning in between. It hasn't changed much since I was a kid and the dining hall is largely cafeteria. They kept cafeteria dining in place as well as not staggering meal times, so you just have a massive number of people eating all at once from the same trough.
At least one nursing home in our area is taking meals to rooms. Residents can’t leave their rooms. You can imagine how sad that makes the residents. But so far, no corona there. (Fingers crossed)
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I cant really speak for the correlation of better homes = 0 cases because as mentioned early, the other home owned by the same company is currently struggling with increasing cases and they are following the same exact protocols and reaching out for help to get as much control on it as possible.
But I think that is where the difference lies...
A great home can have this problem with so many cases and 3 deaths, but they are reaching out and doing everything they can to stop it from progressing as best they can
It would be a different story if they weren't.
Any home that is drowning and in need of help like that who wont reach out and make it known they need help, 0 cases or not, that's what makes a home worse. Imo4 -
KrissCanDoThis wrote: »That's true, no one does know what it's like to be in that position. Personally I dont know what ns power is like at all as a company, I pay $80 every 2 months for my power and that is the extent of my interaction with them
I sometime wish I would have never made it to where I am. Right now is one of those times. When I was an auditor or a general staff accountant working AP or AR, etc I just had this little box that I had to worry about.
Right now, my boss (CEO) and his higher ups have tasked me with what we can do financially going forward. We're good for the most part through June...after that, it gets dicey. We can obviously not buy this or that and cut back on spending...easy enough, but it's kinda like struggling with a home budget and cutting out your monthly $10 subscription to Sports Illustrated...sure, it's $10 but it doesn't really make a dent when you're in a hole of thousands.
Payroll and benefits are our biggest expense, so when you're talking about coming up with hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars, that is the first place you have to go. Unfortunately with that, you're *kitten* with hundreds of lives and livelihoods.
I've submitted a proposal that every employee will furlough 10 days over July 1 2020 through June 30 of next year. We have 26 pay periods in a year, so my suggestion is to stagger that personnel wise and also have individuals stagger those days over months so they aren't missing entire pay checks. My proposal also has administrative and executive staff furlough 20 days the same way. Projections always change, but my current has this staying barely above water without having layoffs.
It is currently being met with some criticism, especially from staff...but the alternative is, who's expendable then and who do we just lay off altogether? Also, some administrative staff aren't happy with me having administration doubling down...but *kitten* that, we're not the one's making a few bucks more than minimum wage...pretty sure we can manage.
People think it's all nice and cozy in administration...it's not. A lot of people don't realize that we have to think about these things and go home at night and try to sleep...my insomnia is very real. Sadly, things are also out of my hands ultimately...I can only lay out a financial plan and I think the one I laid out is as fair as something can be right now...but there are powers much higher than mine that ultimately decide...but I'll still be a bad guy in the end regardless.15 -
I think people take out their thoughts on the wrong people.. which is unfortunate.
In times like that people often hear bad news like that and are instantly overcome by the problems they have in their own lives, debt, cost of kids, insurance, etc.. it often leaves people thinking that the burden is solely put on them only and not anyone else in a higher position.
The fear and anger and sudden-ness of the news doesnt leave much room for stopping and wondering if higher ups are also going to have to deal with the same thing.
People also often think that because they make more money they would have it easier, but honestly, people often live on the edge of or outside their means.. and as upper management, Its often deemed inappropriate for them to discuss their pay, their Bill's, their home life with the people they are managing.. I know some do it, but it can often back fire on them also..
So were blind to their struggles and consumed by the problem in front of us, that we criticize them for what's happening and are even more harsh behind their backs..
I'm guilty of it too sometimes.. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that.1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »Yeah. I honestly dont know how different having uber here would be
I suspect it would be different. Here's it's usually cheaper (although depends on demand). Their rates aren't set by the city the way cab companies are.
I've found Lyft/Uber (I usually take Lyft) really helpful when traveling to cities or areas where it's not so easy to get cabs as where I live. In the past I would have to rent a car, but typically can avoid it now. However, without exception all the Lyft drivers I've interacted with in Jackson, MS, for whatever reason, have been very weird (I have not had this experience at all in any other city, where they are usually pretty nice and normal and often interesting if you talk to them which I often do). This one guy said he was from Atlanta and asked me if I was, and when I said Chicago, he said "well, then, you understand about the strip club scene" and started telling me about all the money he made driving strippers around Atlanta and the stripper vs. stripper fights he overheard. (For the record, I don't have a clue about strip clubs here or in Atlanta.) ;-)
Surge pricing is pretty wild. Some friends went to a Packers game in Green Bay and stayed about 20 miles away in Appleton. They found out it is typically a $20 or so Uber to GB non-event days. They got an Uber several hours before the game and it was $100 for the normally $20 trip. After the game the app was telling them it was $400 for the trip back. They had the driver's number from earlier in the day in their phone. Called and offered him $150 cash. Everyone was happy except Uber.
Yeah -- in my old place I reserved the night before for a ride to O'Hare for $18. The morning of it was raining and hard to get a ride, and the one I was supposed to have accidentally picked up someone else (I would be skeptical but they showed someone near me getting in and getting off a few blocks away as if they'd realized they were going the wrong direction). When I tried to call again given time and conditions the cost was $100, which I refused to pay. No cabs were available (normally an area it's easy to get cabs in) so I broke down and decided to just drive. I tried to get them to credit me for the screwed up reservation, but no luck.4 -
KrissCanDoThis wrote: »I think people take out their thoughts on the wrong people.. which is unfortunate.
In times like that people often hear bad news like that and are instantly overcome by the problems they have in their own lives, debt, cost of kids, insurance, etc.. it often leaves people thinking that the burden is solely put on them only and not anyone else in a higher position.
The fear and anger and sudden-ness of the news doesnt leave much room for stopping and wondering if higher ups are also going to have to deal with the same thing.
People also often think that because they make more money they would have it easier, but honestly, people often live on the edge of or outside their means.. and as upper management, Its often deemed inappropriate for them to discuss their pay, their Bill's, their home life with the people they are managing.. I know some do it, but it can often back fire on them also..
So were blind to their struggles and consumed by the problem in front of us, that we criticize them for what's happening and are even more harsh behind their backs..
I'm guilty of it too sometimes.. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that.
I'm mostly frustrated right now because my proposal has most employees missing the total of a pay check spread across the year, which sucks...but the alternative is just canning people. Do you want a job but you'll miss a paycheck over a year or have no job, no insurance, etc? But apparently that doesn't translate...I can only do one or the other. Hopefully it will all become clear for my peeps over the weekend. I'm quite literally trying to find a way not to have to fire you for something that's not your fault...10 -
rheddmobile wrote: »There've been a bunch of no-sew masks posted (from cut-down t-shirts or socks, or the ones with folded scarves or socks with stretchy hair ties or rubber bands to go over the ears). While I admit that I haven't tried these, the things I have tried, plus a reasonable number of decades' experience as a sewing/fabrics person, make me think that many of these designs will stretch or loosen during wear, creating spaces around the mask that might degrade their protectiveness (for oneself or others).
I haven't seen this design posted much - apologies if I missed it on this thread - but the link below is one I've seen that looks like it could be both non-stretch/less-loosening, and no-sew, FWIW.
https://www.maskbuilders.com/make
If I person wanted, they could incorporate other features from sewn masks, like pleats (horizontal folds) for better fit over the nose, and just staple or pin those at right/left edges, too. Ribbons, shoelaces, or something like paracord would work for ties, too, and might be sturdier in washing. Ties that tend to ravel, but are made of polyester-type fabrics (such as paracord), can be melted (carefully) with a match or lighter, to prevent raveling out with wear/washing. Don't touch the melted bit until it cools! (Paracord is a synthetic material cord with a synthetic fabric covering that kids often use for knotted jewelry or other crafts.)
Another thing I'd point out, for non-sewing people who may not know, is that fabric glue is a thing that exists. I'm doubtful that it would be strong enough to attach ties to mask, but probably would work to create a top casing (folded-over tube) for the nose-piece, if one used a flat piece of fabric rather than a sheet as in the example linked above.
It might be important to know that testing has found stretchy knit material is bad at filtering viruses. Tightly woven material is better. T-shirts or socks are not the ideal thing to make masks from, and neither are buffs.
Cotton is fine, from my research (many or most t-shirts are cotton), and silk is even better supposedly (my lame impromptu bandannas are from silk scarfs).0 -
KrissCanDoThis wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »4th person just died here, all 4 people have been from long term care nursing homes. I fear for the nursing home downtown, owned by the company I work for, they are up to 51 residents infected now and 33 staff members and its growing every day.
They just announced 3 died yesterday at Northwood hugs
☹ seriously? 3 at once.. my god, how heart breaking. Those poor families... I can only imagine how the staff are feeling..
I know that if it ever got into my facility, even if it wasnt me being the one to bring it, everything I touched or people i gave help to.. I'd be terrified.
What a shame 🥺
Unfortunately, that number may continue to climb. Nearly half our deaths are from the same nursing home cluster. It's really sad, and scary for those with loved ones in these facilities.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »I think people take out their thoughts on the wrong people.. which is unfortunate.
In times like that people often hear bad news like that and are instantly overcome by the problems they have in their own lives, debt, cost of kids, insurance, etc.. it often leaves people thinking that the burden is solely put on them only and not anyone else in a higher position.
The fear and anger and sudden-ness of the news doesnt leave much room for stopping and wondering if higher ups are also going to have to deal with the same thing.
People also often think that because they make more money they would have it easier, but honestly, people often live on the edge of or outside their means.. and as upper management, Its often deemed inappropriate for them to discuss their pay, their Bill's, their home life with the people they are managing.. I know some do it, but it can often back fire on them also..
So were blind to their struggles and consumed by the problem in front of us, that we criticize them for what's happening and are even more harsh behind their backs..
I'm guilty of it too sometimes.. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that.
I'm mostly frustrated right now because my proposal has most employees missing the total of a pay check spread across the year, which sucks...but the alternative is just canning people. Do you want a job but you'll miss a paycheck over a year or have no job, no insurance, etc? But apparently that doesn't translate...I can only do one or the other. Hopefully it will all become clear for my peeps over the weekend. I'm quite literally trying to find a way not to have to fire you for something that's not your fault...
Yeah, that's where the newness of bad news can often cloud peoples abilities to understand the bigger picture.
It makes sense to me, and to me your proposal sounds like the much better option, hopefully this weekend people will have had time to process, and can be ready for taking in the bigger picture on Monday2 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »4th person just died here, all 4 people have been from long term care nursing homes. I fear for the nursing home downtown, owned by the company I work for, they are up to 51 residents infected now and 33 staff members and its growing every day.
They just announced 3 died yesterday at Northwood hugs
☹ seriously? 3 at once.. my god, how heart breaking. Those poor families... I can only imagine how the staff are feeling..
I know that if it ever got into my facility, even if it wasnt me being the one to bring it, everything I touched or people i gave help to.. I'd be terrified.
What a shame 🥺
Unfortunately, that number may continue to climb. Nearly half our deaths are from the same nursing home cluster. It's really sad, and scary for those with loved ones in these facilities.
Its shocking to me, mostly because it was not long ago that while cases were climbing they said that residents and staff all were fortunate enough to be displaying mild symptoms.. I guess it got my Hope's up that they would recover. But I do know it will probably not be the case.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »As of yesterday we're officially homeschooling with google classroom. It's pretty sucky. When the teachers were initially talking to us about this it sounded like it would be a couple of hours per day, but they've rolled out entire daily assignments as if they were back in the classroom. Very difficult to keep up as both my wife and are are working from home most of the time and we still have to work and meet our deadlines, etc. We're doing the best we can, but there's no way we can keep up with what is actually being sent out while working full time.
I feel like these expectations are so unfair to parents.
Our school's goal is to make each assignment doable within 30 min. Not sure how it is elsewhere. And only grade one assignment per week. The grading policy is also more lenient at this time. I'm really hoping schools open again in August/September because we need personal interaction.1 -
Yet another way in which women are better: https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-18/do-testicles-make-men-more-vulnerable-to-coronavirus1
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Also, it appears that there may be a whole lot more asymptomatic carriers than originally estimated: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-17/coronavirus-antibodies-study-santa-clara-county
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nutmegoreo wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »4th person just died here, all 4 people have been from long term care nursing homes. I fear for the nursing home downtown, owned by the company I work for, they are up to 51 residents infected now and 33 staff members and its growing every day.
They just announced 3 died yesterday at Northwood hugs
☹ seriously? 3 at once.. my god, how heart breaking. Those poor families... I can only imagine how the staff are feeling..
I know that if it ever got into my facility, even if it wasnt me being the one to bring it, everything I touched or people i gave help to.. I'd be terrified.
What a shame 🥺
Unfortunately, that number may continue to climb. Nearly half our deaths are from the same nursing home cluster. It's really sad, and scary for those with loved ones in these facilities.
Six of our eleven deaths in New Zealand are from the same nursing home cluster, which was in the dementia ward. So very, very frail people who were already on palliative care. I don't think anyone holds much hope for the remaining affected patients there
One of our new cases here so far has no connection to any known cases, so is looking like community transmission. I think our chances of Level 4 lockdown ending on Thursday (decision on that is scheduled for tomorrow) are fairly slim. The Ministry of Health has been encouraging anyone with any respiratory symptoms at all, no matter how mild, to seek testing for the past several days, and some surveillance testing has been undertaken in 'hotspots' to gather more data to inform that decision. The surveillance tests have all thus far been negative.4 -
Has anyone been to Costco recently? I know when the Safer at Home order first came down, Costco was reportedly a nightmare. I'm thinking to go there next week, probably looking for canned tuna and a few other things I like to buy in bulk. Has anyone braved it lately? In your town, have the lines outside and the supplies inside normalized like they have at the grocery store?JustSomeEm wrote: »I found some no-sew face masks from t-shirts: https://jennifermaker.com/no-sew-face-mask-tshirt/
I made two of these today out of an old 100% cotton t-shirt of fairly thick fabric. I made a small and a medium. They were double layer, but I inserted a 3rd layer in between when I went out. The medium ended up being way too big for me. They were quick and easy to make, and comfortable to wear. I could breathe easily. I wore the small one out for a walk today. It did stretch out and felt too big for me by the time I got home. I may cut the fabric down a little more. And when I wash and dry it, it'll be back to the original size until I stretch it out again. I probably took it on and off a few too many times getting comfortable with it and putting the 3rd layer in; it won't stretch if I just put it on and don't fuss with it, I assume.
On a fun note, when I was out walking in my neighborhood, someone was giving a concert a block over. He had microphones and speakers, was singing and playing guitar in his driveway. I don't know if it was a talented amateur or someone professional. The neighbors all along the block were sitting in their front yards and on the sidewalks enjoying themselves.
One of the residents of my apartment building is organizing a happy hour next week where we all sit outside in the courtyard, an appropriate distance apart, of course. I've lived here almost a decade and rarely spoken to anyone so I think the friendliness is kind of nice.
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Has anyone been to Costco recently? I know when the Safer at Home order first came down, Costco was reportedly a nightmare. I'm thinking to go there next week, probably looking for canned tuna and a few other things I like to buy in bulk. Has anyone braved it lately? In your town, have the lines outside and the supplies inside normalized like they have at the grocery store?
One data point: I went yesterday, to one on the outskirts of a maybe-medium metro area (Lansing, MI). It was early afternoon, Friday. The crowd wasn't much different from what I'd normally see on a weekday, during the day. There was no waiting line to enter, but the signage suggested there would be a line if the store were at some certain capacity already.
They had some areas blocked off (furniture stuff, mostly - part of Michigan shutdown rules for big-box stores), there were lots of signs asking people to keep a 6 foot difference, and many areas had marks on the floor illustrating 6 foot distancing. The cashier area for sure had markings, and a couple of traffic guys before the individual check-out lines were directing people to a line where there was room for them to be distanced properly.
Most things seemed to be in stock, but I didn't shop around for things I didn't personally need. I noticed that there were quite a few pallets of TP, though, and noticed facial tissue as well.
The other shoppers were a big mix. Some were distancing well, some were barging into any gap between carts and getting close to others even when (if they'd look) it was obvious that people were waiting to get into that area while maintaining proper spacing. (I'd observe that it's difficult to glare meaningfully at people when one is wearing a mask oneself.) Among the shoppers, many were wearing masks, but far from all - maybe half or somewhat more? Some of the staff had masks, some didn't, and the restocker kind of people were mostly barging everywhere irrespective of 6-foot spacing. The cashiers had tall plastic shields between them and the customer, and the cart unloader guy who gets closer to customer had a mask and gloves (at least in my lane, and I think in all of them.) The cashier scanned my Costco card through the plastic, didn't need to touch it.
Overall, it wasn't a terrible experience. Better than Kroger a week ago, not as good as my local full-line health-food-ish grocery (think Whole Foods without the flourishes, and a little smaller). The latter has been about the best, as to polite/careful customers and staff, though not perfect either. We're all human, I guess.
FWIW.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »I think people take out their thoughts on the wrong people.. which is unfortunate.
In times like that people often hear bad news like that and are instantly overcome by the problems they have in their own lives, debt, cost of kids, insurance, etc.. it often leaves people thinking that the burden is solely put on them only and not anyone else in a higher position.
The fear and anger and sudden-ness of the news doesnt leave much room for stopping and wondering if higher ups are also going to have to deal with the same thing.
People also often think that because they make more money they would have it easier, but honestly, people often live on the edge of or outside their means.. and as upper management, Its often deemed inappropriate for them to discuss their pay, their Bill's, their home life with the people they are managing.. I know some do it, but it can often back fire on them also..
So were blind to their struggles and consumed by the problem in front of us, that we criticize them for what's happening and are even more harsh behind their backs..
I'm guilty of it too sometimes.. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that.
I'm mostly frustrated right now because my proposal has most employees missing the total of a pay check spread across the year, which sucks...but the alternative is just canning people. Do you want a job but you'll miss a paycheck over a year or have no job, no insurance, etc? But apparently that doesn't translate...I can only do one or the other. Hopefully it will all become clear for my peeps over the weekend. I'm quite literally trying to find a way not to have to fire you for something that's not your fault...
I’m curious. Isn’t laying off, a better term? What are the grounds for firing?
Back in 2008, we had to take a 20% pay cut, and a cut back of hours, and some people were laid off. Many people did. Through no fault of our own, because of mismanagement by businesses. Time will tell, but universal health care may become critical during this crisis. Affordable health care is a joke for most people in the US. A friend that has been furloughed during this, will have to pay just under $1600/month for Cobra starting in May. Not many people can afford that.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »That's true, no one does know what it's like to be in that position. Personally I dont know what ns power is like at all as a company, I pay $80 every 2 months for my power and that is the extent of my interaction with them
I've submitted a proposal that every employee will furlough 10 days over July 1 2020 through June 30 of next year. We have 26 pay periods in a year, so my suggestion is to stagger that personnel wise and also have individuals stagger those days over months so they aren't missing entire pay checks. My proposal also has administrative and executive staff furlough 20 days the same way. Projections always change, but my current has this staying barely above water without having layoffs.
It is currently being met with some criticism, especially from staff...but the alternative is, who's expendable then and who do we just lay off altogether? Also, some administrative staff aren't happy with me having administration doubling down...but *kitten* that, we're not the one's making a few bucks more than minimum wage...pretty sure we can manage.
People think it's all nice and cozy in administration...it's not. A lot of people don't realize that we have to think about these things and go home at night and try to sleep...my insomnia is very real. Sadly, things are also out of my hands ultimately...I can only lay out a financial plan and I think the one I laid out is as fair as something can be right now...but there are powers much higher than mine that ultimately decide...but I'll still be a bad guy in the end regardless.
@cwolfman13 It's hard to manage. I work for a multi-billion dollar international company. Our industry was in a downturn a few years ago. We had layoffs in manufacturing and our salaried and management employees were required to take a week unpaid leave every quarter during the year. I'm in finance and after the year was over the CFO said never again (at least under that management group's watch). It was too hard to make sure people that were working on projects were available.
Maybe if people were able to take their time a day or 2 at a time during a quarter would have been better from a workflow standpoint. Maybe a bit harder from a payroll standpoint (most of our "office employees" are management and get a monthly salary).
I work with several multinationals, large US based corporations and even some Fortune 500s. I can't imagine things back to "business as usual" anytime soon. One good client was in rapid expansion mode. They did facades for some of the highest end condos in the US -- they did the residential facades at Hudson Yards in NYC. That high end market was starting to slow down. Now, it will be mostly gone. Instantly killed.
Around 70% of my work is with highly specialized contractors that build facades of the highest end buildings in the US (the ones you see all the time on the news or on TV). Construction/real estate is always a clear indicator of the rest of the economy. Usually I see recessions 6 months before everyone else. I was seeing signs 2 or 3 months ago already. Now, it's a flood of applicants for few jobs.
The worst part of my job will now be "upgrading" personnel -- the inevitable replacement of high cost employees with lower paid options. Usually less experienced and many times younger, though that term will NEVER come up. But when you let someone go that makes 100K and the new salary is 50K, who do you think I'll find??3 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »
The worst part of my job will now be "upgrading" personnel -- the inevitable replacement of high cost employees with lower paid options. Usually less experienced and many times younger, though that term will NEVER come up. But when you let someone go that makes 100K and the new salary is 50K, who do you think I'll find??
Isn't this age discrimination dressed up to look like something else? Not trying to put you on the spot, but this is so similar to race-based practices that have been designed to look like something else--literacy tests or poll taxes, practices that really only hit certain groups.
It's one thing if someone is in their 70s and has a fully-funded pension or retirement account. It's another thing if someone has just gotten through paying college costs for kids, etc., and is just about to hit the point where they can start to breathe more easily, financially speaking. Losing income in one's 50s is just so awful; no time to recover and the savings to that point are not yet enough to cover a comfortable lifestyle--I'm not talking about luxury; I'm talking about a safe home, health insurance, enough monthly income to feed one's self and help adult children moving from college to working life a bit, and the occasional well-earned vacation that is not full of 5 star restaurants or first class travel.
So much for working hard and having it pay off. And really, I am not attacking you. I'm just so frustrated about the lie that is our American economy in the late 20th/early 21st century.
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missysippy930 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »I think people take out their thoughts on the wrong people.. which is unfortunate.
In times like that people often hear bad news like that and are instantly overcome by the problems they have in their own lives, debt, cost of kids, insurance, etc.. it often leaves people thinking that the burden is solely put on them only and not anyone else in a higher position.
The fear and anger and sudden-ness of the news doesnt leave much room for stopping and wondering if higher ups are also going to have to deal with the same thing.
People also often think that because they make more money they would have it easier, but honestly, people often live on the edge of or outside their means.. and as upper management, Its often deemed inappropriate for them to discuss their pay, their Bill's, their home life with the people they are managing.. I know some do it, but it can often back fire on them also..
So were blind to their struggles and consumed by the problem in front of us, that we criticize them for what's happening and are even more harsh behind their backs..
I'm guilty of it too sometimes.. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that.
I'm mostly frustrated right now because my proposal has most employees missing the total of a pay check spread across the year, which sucks...but the alternative is just canning people. Do you want a job but you'll miss a paycheck over a year or have no job, no insurance, etc? But apparently that doesn't translate...I can only do one or the other. Hopefully it will all become clear for my peeps over the weekend. I'm quite literally trying to find a way not to have to fire you for something that's not your fault...
I’m curious. Isn’t laying off, a better term? What are the grounds for firing?
Back in 2008, we had to take a 20% pay cut, and a cut back of hours, and some people were laid off. Many people did. Through no fault of our own, because of mismanagement by businesses. Time will tell, but universal health care may become critical during this crisis. Affordable health care is a joke for most people in the US. A friend that has been furloughed during this, will have to pay just under $1600/month for Cobra starting in May. Not many people can afford that.
Yes, I think terminology is important. Here, "fire" is different than "lay off." However "furlough" is often used regardless of fault. "Temporary lay off" is used exclusively in a no-fault situation, but many are using "furlough" in a no fault situation now also despite that furlough has a historical use that can also mean there is potential fault on the employee's side.
I've not been given the option... some employees at my company were temporary layoff and the rest of us had temporary pay cuts. Originally when this was announced, I am losing 2 weeks of pay spread over 90 days. Compared to those laid off for 2 weeks, I am worse off because we lose the same amount of income from the company directly and yet the laid off employees can get some of that back through unemployment. Now, as lay off continues (as does my pay cut), the unemployment amount becomes more relevant. In my state, starting unemployment was so small that even adding $600 per week doesn't replace an entire paycheck for most workers. The extension causes many who were previously laid off the go from a better situation than my pay cut to a worse situation than mine when total situation is considered.4 -
Another 2 deaths and 26 more positive cases at the nursing home in my area. ☹ that's 115 now between residents and staff.5
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Has anyone been to Costco recently? I know when the Safer at Home order first came down, Costco was reportedly a nightmare. I'm thinking to go there next week, probably looking for canned tuna and a few other things I like to buy in bulk. Has anyone braved it lately? In your town, have the lines outside and the supplies inside normalized like they have at the grocery store?
I went to my closest one (suburb of a large metropolitan area) a week ago and there were no lines. The number of people shopping was typical for mid-morning on a weekday (but I was there on a Sunday afternoon). I did not check the papergoods aisle but did not see any shortages of the things I typically get. The baked goods were maybe fewer than before but I really didn't pay close attention. In some ways, they were better supplied than some of the grocery stores.
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I went shopping at my local grocery store yesterday evening. Almost no one wearing masks--maybe 10%? A number of sale items were gone but there were still options that weren't on sale. Fully stocked shelves of TP. I didn't notice much missing. People tended to either carefully distance themselves on passing, or waited for another to pass. But some aisles were a bit crowded and they aren't wide enough, anyway, to allow for 6' of separation. I didn't notice a lot of gloves in use, either.
I had masks and simply forgot them. Just got them and not in the habit. Plus, except for the grocery store, I'm not in an environment where I might be exposed. Well, maybe the dog park, but everyone uses the poop bags to open/shut the gates, there's nothing else to touch, and it's easy to stay far apart. No one in my household is going anywhere other than the grocery store.
I hadn't kept up with local data. Our infection rate is rising more slowly. I'd be more worried about the fact that 24% of all positives have required hospitalization, except I don't know our testing capacity. Still it is worrisome b/c in Italy and elsewhere, the illness seems to have a high rate of hospitalization (and also of those in ICU once hospitalized) for people who are symptomatic and test positive. I'm not sure if that data has changed as much as it might even given wider testing/more incoming data from other countries. Does anyone know?0 -
Has anyone been to Costco recently? I know when the Safer at Home order first came down, Costco was reportedly a nightmare. I'm thinking to go there next week, probably looking for canned tuna and a few other things I like to buy in bulk. Has anyone braved it lately? In your town, have the lines outside and the supplies inside normalized like they have at the grocery store?
I've been to Costco a few times and had different experiences:
The week before last, there were only a few people waiting in line outside. They had a white board at the door listing what was out of stock....a relatively short list, just disinfectants, gloves, hand sanitizer, and dried beans. They had toilet paper. Once inside, it was not crowded at all, and no other items were in short supply, other than what was listed on the board.
I went again this week and it was different. Loooong line to get in (still only took me about 15 minutes). The white board noted that, in addition to the items from the previous week, they were currently out of toilet paper and rotisserie chicken. It seemed the store was way more crowded. I think they metered in too many people because of the long line outside. It was uncomfortably crowded.
Both times, I went on a weekday afternoon (I had heard the mornings were more crowded).
A few things to note: Don't be too intimidated by a long line outside. It looks worse than it is because people are standing 6 feet apart, and it moves quickly. Don't grab a cart in the parking lot...they are wiping down carts as they hand them to each individual entering customer. They are requesting that no more than 2 people per membership enter the store (leave the kids at home if you can). Checkout lanes were good...no lines as they had enough of them open. That's been my experience anyway...it might be different in other cities.2 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Has anyone been to Costco recently? I know when the Safer at Home order first came down, Costco was reportedly a nightmare. I'm thinking to go there next week, probably looking for canned tuna and a few other things I like to buy in bulk. Has anyone braved it lately? In your town, have the lines outside and the supplies inside normalized like they have at the grocery store?
I've been to Costco a few times and had different experiences:
The week before last, there were only a few people waiting in line outside. They had a white board at the door listing what was out of stock....a relatively short list, just disinfectants, gloves, hand sanitizer, and dried beans. They had toilet paper. Once inside, it was not crowded at all, and no other items were in short supply, other than what was listed on the board.
I went again this week and it was different. Loooong line to get in (still only took me about 15 minutes). The white board noted that, in addition to the items from the previous week, they were currently out of toilet paper and rotisserie chicken. It seemed the store was way more crowded. I think they metered in too many people because of the long line outside. It was uncomfortably crowded.
Both times, I went on a weekday afternoon (I had heard the mornings were more crowded).
A few things to note: Don't be too intimidated by a long line outside. It looks worse than it is because people are standing 6 feet apart, and it moves quickly. Don't grab a cart in the parking lot...they are wiping down carts as they hand them to each individual entering customer. They are requesting that no more than 2 people per membership enter the store (leave the kids at home if you can). Checkout lanes were good...no lines as they had enough of them open. That's been my experience anyway...it might be different in other cities.
The bolded points were true at my mid-Michigan Costco, too, on Friday. Appreciate that @SuzySunshine99 thought to include them, since I was remiss.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »
The worst part of my job will now be "upgrading" personnel -- the inevitable replacement of high cost employees with lower paid options. Usually less experienced and many times younger, though that term will NEVER come up. But when you let someone go that makes 100K and the new salary is 50K, who do you think I'll find??
Isn't this age discrimination dressed up to look like something else? Not trying to put you on the spot, but this is so similar to race-based practices that have been designed to look like something else--literacy tests or poll taxes, practices that really only hit certain groups.
It's one thing if someone is in their 70s and has a fully-funded pension or retirement account. It's another thing if someone has just gotten through paying college costs for kids, etc., and is just about to hit the point where they can start to breathe more easily, financially speaking. Losing income in one's 50s is just so awful; no time to recover and the savings to that point are not yet enough to cover a comfortable lifestyle--I'm not talking about luxury; I'm talking about a safe home, health insurance, enough monthly income to feed one's self and help adult children moving from college to working life a bit, and the occasional well-earned vacation that is not full of 5 star restaurants or first class travel.
So much for working hard and having it pay off. And really, I am not attacking you. I'm just so frustrated about the lie that is our American economy in the late 20th/early 21st century.
That's exactly what it is. It's part of the main reason I work for myself. It's extremely prevalent in the workforce. Companies are extremely careful to never mention age, but if they cut a salary in half or make it a part time job, what does it do in practicality? Age is supposed to be a protected class, but in reality, that's laughable. Just being real with you.2 -
I went to the grocery today. There were a lot fewer people than usual for a Sunday afternoon. Masks are required in PA now, so everyone had one. A few didn't know how to wear one though since they had their noses exposed. Trying to figure out what was available and what to do with what was available was a bit frustrating. Worse was the line to check out. You have to wait to approach a check-out line until the person ahead has finished. That meant that there were a lot of people waiting to be told which line was available. Not very efficient. I think it took me longer to check out than it did to fill my basket.
My county is still low in numbers (111), but increasing steadily. No deaths so far. The county to the west of us only has had 2 positive cases. One of my neighbors has a daughter having a 16th birthday party. Only 8 cars when I passed by, but still.0
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