Coronavirus prep

cwolfman13 wrote: »

KrissCanDoThis wrote: »

That's true, no one does know what it's like to be in that position. Personally I dont know what ns power is like at all as a company, I pay $80 every 2 months for my power and that is the extent of my interaction with them

I've submitted a proposal that every employee will furlough 10 days over July 1 2020 through June 30 of next year. We have 26 pay periods in a year, so my suggestion is to stagger that personnel wise and also have individuals stagger those days over months so they aren't missing entire pay checks. My proposal also has administrative and executive staff furlough 20 days the same way. Projections always change, but my current has this staying barely above water without having layoffs.

It is currently being met with some criticism, especially from staff...but the alternative is, who's expendable then and who do we just lay off altogether? Also, some administrative staff aren't happy with me having administration doubling down...but *kitten* that, we're not the one's making a few bucks more than minimum wage...pretty sure we can manage.

People think it's all nice and cozy in administration...it's not. A lot of people don't realize that we have to think about these things and go home at night and try to sleep...my insomnia is very real. Sadly, things are also out of my hands ultimately...I can only lay out a financial plan and I think the one I laid out is as fair as something can be right now...but there are powers much higher than mine that ultimately decide...but I'll still be a bad guy in the end regardless.

@cwolfman13 It's hard to manage. I work for a multi-billion dollar international company. Our industry was in a downturn a few years ago. We had layoffs in manufacturing and our salaried and management employees were required to take a week unpaid leave every quarter during the year. I'm in finance and after the year was over the CFO said never again (at least under that management group's watch). It was too hard to make sure people that were working on projects were available.

Maybe if people were able to take their time a day or 2 at a time during a quarter would have been better from a workflow standpoint. Maybe a bit harder from a payroll standpoint (most of our "office employees" are management and get a monthly salary).

whoami67 wrote: »

Has anyone been to Costco recently? I know when the Safer at Home order first came down, Costco was reportedly a nightmare. I'm thinking to go there next week, probably looking for canned tuna and a few other things I like to buy in bulk. Has anyone braved it lately? In your town, have the lines outside and the supplies inside normalized like they have at the grocery store?

One data point: I went yesterday, to one on the outskirts of a maybe-medium metro area (Lansing, MI). It was early afternoon, Friday. The crowd wasn't much different from what I'd normally see on a weekday, during the day. There was no waiting line to enter, but the signage suggested there would be a line if the store were at some certain capacity already.

They had some areas blocked off (furniture stuff, mostly - part of Michigan shutdown rules for big-box stores), there were lots of signs asking people to keep a 6 foot difference, and many areas had marks on the floor illustrating 6 foot distancing. The cashier area for sure had markings, and a couple of traffic guys before the individual check-out lines were directing people to a line where there was room for them to be distanced properly.

Most things seemed to be in stock, but I didn't shop around for things I didn't personally need. I noticed that there were quite a few pallets of TP, though, and noticed facial tissue as well.

The other shoppers were a big mix. Some were distancing well, some were barging into any gap between carts and getting close to others even when (if they'd look) it was obvious that people were waiting to get into that area while maintaining proper spacing. (I'd observe that it's difficult to glare meaningfully at people when one is wearing a mask oneself.) Among the shoppers, many were wearing masks, but far from all - maybe half or somewhat more? Some of the staff had masks, some didn't, and the restocker kind of people were mostly barging everywhere irrespective of 6-foot spacing. The cashiers had tall plastic shields between them and the customer, and the cart unloader guy who gets closer to customer had a mask and gloves (at least in my lane, and I think in all of them.) The cashier scanned my Costco card through the plastic, didn't need to touch it.

Overall, it wasn't a terrible experience. Better than Kroger a week ago, not as good as my local full-line health-food-ish grocery (think Whole Foods without the flourishes, and a little smaller). The latter has been about the best, as to polite/careful customers and staff, though not perfect either. We're all human, I guess.

FWIW.

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

KrissCanDoThis wrote: »

That's true, no one does know what it's like to be in that position. Personally I dont know what ns power is like at all as a company, I pay $80 every 2 months for my power and that is the extent of my interaction with them

I've submitted a proposal that every employee will furlough 10 days over July 1 2020 through June 30 of next year. We have 26 pay periods in a year, so my suggestion is to stagger that personnel wise and also have individuals stagger those days over months so they aren't missing entire pay checks. My proposal also has administrative and executive staff furlough 20 days the same way. Projections always change, but my current has this staying barely above water without having layoffs.

It is currently being met with some criticism, especially from staff...but the alternative is, who's expendable then and who do we just lay off altogether? Also, some administrative staff aren't happy with me having administration doubling down...but *kitten* that, we're not the one's making a few bucks more than minimum wage...pretty sure we can manage.

People think it's all nice and cozy in administration...it's not. A lot of people don't realize that we have to think about these things and go home at night and try to sleep...my insomnia is very real. Sadly, things are also out of my hands ultimately...I can only lay out a financial plan and I think the one I laid out is as fair as something can be right now...but there are powers much higher than mine that ultimately decide...but I'll still be a bad guy in the end regardless.

@cwolfman13 It's hard to manage. I work for a multi-billion dollar international company. Our industry was in a downturn a few years ago. We had layoffs in manufacturing and our salaried and management employees were required to take a week unpaid leave every quarter during the year. I'm in finance and after the year was over the CFO said never again (at least under that management group's watch). It was too hard to make sure people that were working on projects were available.

Maybe if people were able to take their time a day or 2 at a time during a quarter would have been better from a workflow standpoint. Maybe a bit harder from a payroll standpoint (most of our "office employees" are management and get a monthly salary).

I work with several multinationals, large US based corporations and even some Fortune 500s. I can't imagine things back to "business as usual" anytime soon. One good client was in rapid expansion mode. They did facades for some of the highest end condos in the US -- they did the residential facades at Hudson Yards in NYC. That high end market was starting to slow down. Now, it will be mostly gone. Instantly killed.

Around 70% of my work is with highly specialized contractors that build facades of the highest end buildings in the US (the ones you see all the time on the news or on TV). Construction/real estate is always a clear indicator of the rest of the economy. Usually I see recessions 6 months before everyone else. I was seeing signs 2 or 3 months ago already. Now, it's a flood of applicants for few jobs.

The worst part of my job will now be "upgrading" personnel -- the inevitable replacement of high cost employees with lower paid options. Usually less experienced and many times younger, though that term will NEVER come up. But when you let someone go that makes 100K and the new salary is 50K, who do you think I'll find??

missysippy930 wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

KrissCanDoThis wrote: »

I think people take out their thoughts on the wrong people.. which is unfortunate.

In times like that people often hear bad news like that and are instantly overcome by the problems they have in their own lives, debt, cost of kids, insurance, etc.. it often leaves people thinking that the burden is solely put on them only and not anyone else in a higher position.

The fear and anger and sudden-ness of the news doesnt leave much room for stopping and wondering if higher ups are also going to have to deal with the same thing.

People also often think that because they make more money they would have it easier, but honestly, people often live on the edge of or outside their means.. and as upper management, Its often deemed inappropriate for them to discuss their pay, their Bill's, their home life with the people they are managing.. I know some do it, but it can often back fire on them also..

So were blind to their struggles and consumed by the problem in front of us, that we criticize them for what's happening and are even more harsh behind their backs..

I'm guilty of it too sometimes.. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that.

I'm mostly frustrated right now because my proposal has most employees missing the total of a pay check spread across the year, which sucks...but the alternative is just canning people. Do you want a job but you'll miss a paycheck over a year or have no job, no insurance, etc? But apparently that doesn't translate...I can only do one or the other. Hopefully it will all become clear for my peeps over the weekend. I'm quite literally trying to find a way not to have to fire you for something that's not your fault...

I’m curious. Isn’t laying off, a better term? What are the grounds for firing?
Back in 2008, we had to take a 20% pay cut, and a cut back of hours, and some people were laid off. Many people did. Through no fault of our own, because of mismanagement by businesses. Time will tell, but universal health care may become critical during this crisis. Affordable health care is a joke for most people in the US. A friend that has been furloughed during this, will have to pay just under $1600/month for Cobra starting in May. Not many people can afford that.

Yes, I think terminology is important. Here, "fire" is different than "lay off." However "furlough" is often used regardless of fault. "Temporary lay off" is used exclusively in a no-fault situation, but many are using "furlough" in a no fault situation now also despite that furlough has a historical use that can also mean there is potential fault on the employee's side.

I've not been given the option... some employees at my company were temporary layoff and the rest of us had temporary pay cuts. Originally when this was announced, I am losing 2 weeks of pay spread over 90 days. Compared to those laid off for 2 weeks, I am worse off because we lose the same amount of income from the company directly and yet the laid off employees can get some of that back through unemployment. Now, as lay off continues (as does my pay cut), the unemployment amount becomes more relevant. In my state, starting unemployment was so small that even adding $600 per week doesn't replace an entire paycheck for most workers. The extension causes many who were previously laid off the go from a better situation than my pay cut to a worse situation than mine when total situation is considered.

I went shopping at my local grocery store yesterday evening. Almost no one wearing masks--maybe 10%? A number of sale items were gone but there were still options that weren't on sale. Fully stocked shelves of TP. I didn't notice much missing. People tended to either carefully distance themselves on passing, or waited for another to pass. But some aisles were a bit crowded and they aren't wide enough, anyway, to allow for 6' of separation. I didn't notice a lot of gloves in use, either.

I had masks and simply forgot them. Just got them and not in the habit. Plus, except for the grocery store, I'm not in an environment where I might be exposed. Well, maybe the dog park, but everyone uses the poop bags to open/shut the gates, there's nothing else to touch, and it's easy to stay far apart. No one in my household is going anywhere other than the grocery store.

I hadn't kept up with local data. Our infection rate is rising more slowly. I'd be more worried about the fact that 24% of all positives have required hospitalization, except I don't know our testing capacity. Still it is worrisome b/c in Italy and elsewhere, the illness seems to have a high rate of hospitalization (and also of those in ICU once hospitalized) for people who are symptomatic and test positive. I'm not sure if that data has changed as much as it might even given wider testing/more incoming data from other countries. Does anyone know?

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

whoami67 wrote: »

Has anyone been to Costco recently? I know when the Safer at Home order first came down, Costco was reportedly a nightmare. I'm thinking to go there next week, probably looking for canned tuna and a few other things I like to buy in bulk. Has anyone braved it lately? In your town, have the lines outside and the supplies inside normalized like they have at the grocery store?

I've been to Costco a few times and had different experiences:

The week before last, there were only a few people waiting in line outside. They had a white board at the door listing what was out of stock....a relatively short list, just disinfectants, gloves, hand sanitizer, and dried beans. They had toilet paper. Once inside, it was not crowded at all, and no other items were in short supply, other than what was listed on the board.

I went again this week and it was different. Loooong line to get in (still only took me about 15 minutes). The white board noted that, in addition to the items from the previous week, they were currently out of toilet paper and rotisserie chicken. It seemed the store was way more crowded. I think they metered in too many people because of the long line outside. It was uncomfortably crowded.

Both times, I went on a weekday afternoon (I had heard the mornings were more crowded).

A few things to note: Don't be too intimidated by a long line outside. It looks worse than it is because people are standing 6 feet apart, and it moves quickly. Don't grab a cart in the parking lot...they are wiping down carts as they hand them to each individual entering customer. They are requesting that no more than 2 people per membership enter the store (leave the kids at home if you can). Checkout lanes were good...no lines as they had enough of them open. That's been my experience anyway...it might be different in other cities.

The bolded points were true at my mid-Michigan Costco, too, on Friday. Appreciate that @SuzySunshine99 thought to include them, since I was remiss.

I went to the grocery today. There were a lot fewer people than usual for a Sunday afternoon. Masks are required in PA now, so everyone had one. A few didn't know how to wear one though since they had their noses exposed. Trying to figure out what was available and what to do with what was available was a bit frustrating. Worse was the line to check out. You have to wait to approach a check-out line until the person ahead has finished. That meant that there were a lot of people waiting to be told which line was available. Not very efficient. I think it took me longer to check out than it did to fill my basket.

My county is still low in numbers (111), but increasing steadily. No deaths so far. The county to the west of us only has had 2 positive cases. One of my neighbors has a daughter having a 16th birthday party. Only 8 cars when I passed by, but still.

KrissCanDoThis wrote: »

Congrats on snagging some toilet paper.

What's the big deal with the toilet paper purchases?? I haven't been able to figure it out.

amusedmonkey wrote: »

cmriverside wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

KrissCanDoThis wrote: »

So when they open these areas up in the places with no cases, would they stop people from traveling to them to shop? I would be worried that an asymptomatic person would go shopping and accidentally create cases in a city trying to open.

They will be closed off. No one is allowed in or out.

How does that work? Do you have that many government officials that they can stop people at every road? In the U.S. people would just go anyway. But then the amount of tom-foolery-you're-not-the-boss-of-me going on here cannot be over-stated.

The army forces are involved. It's a small country so the number of provinces is small (12), and each province has limited points of entry by car. Currently, only people with permits are allowed to drive, and even fewer have permits to drive between provinces. A close off means even stricter rules for entry.

With all known cases currently quarantined in hospitals, and all buildings/streets that had several cases quarantined off by the army to anticipate any potential silent cases, the risk is there, but smaller. Things are under control, for now, but if some undiscovered pockets emerge, they'll hopefully be localized to an area because of driving restrictions. Some people do break the rules, but the fear of temporarily losing their car keeps many people within a few kilometers of their house.

ETA:

We've had a scary case of someone whose brother father has the virus and was ordered to home quarantine, but it wasn't a hot spot, so his area wasn't under mandatory quarantine. He worked at a pharmacy, so he also has a permit to use his car. He broke quarantine and kept going to work, so yeah, mistakes do happen. We may see an uptick in a week or two because of it, but I hope it won't cause things to spiral out of control.

Another was a case whose brother was sick and order to home quarantine, but he kept going to work (selling vegetables).

The next 2 weeks will reveal if we lose control or not.

Yes. These are the reasons more places are introducing mandatory lockdowns.