Coronavirus prep
Replies
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ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask
) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to.
They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
There is a common theory that the greatest risk is indoor, prolonged close contact with groups of unmasked people. Which is why...trying not to be political...arguing that going to an indoor event with 20,000 people is the same risk as going to the grocery store does not make any scientific sense. Just an example....no politics.10 -
ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.3 -
ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Based on the interview link I posted . . . it may go beyond that, to the probabilities.
Contact tracing is going to have to cut off at some point. Practicality (can you identify them) is one part of that, as you say. Probability of transmission is another.
To use an intentionally absurd/extreme example: If someone has Covid & licks a stamp and puts the envelope in their mailbox, then a mail deliverer handles the envelope and immediately touches their face, I suppose maybe there's a small chance of viral transfer in sufficient quantities to cause infection . . . but I doubt the contact tracers will be trying to identify who our mail deliverer is, even though it could be done in most cases.0 -
gradchica27 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
Some in Tucson are whining up a storm about the mandatory mask requirements. Have to read up to see how restaurants and bars will handle that. I'm not sure if people realize we are the only country whining about masks. About masks. SMH. The popular Sheriff in our town (one of the ones, "I'm gonna live my life" guys) just tested positive for Covid-19. He was supposed to meet the President this weekend! I guess he got tested in advance and found out he had it! He's fairly young and healthy, so I wish him well. But to ignore it is ignorant.
I suspect the whiners firmly believe that the compliant mask-wearers are all "sheeple" anyway.
What I've noticed here (and we have very few active cases, all currently hospitalized) is that women have promptly turned mask wearing into a fashion statement and happily sport a fabric mask with a print that reflects a hobby or some aspect of their personality. Younger men seem to like to wear industrial style masks, I've even seen some very fancy respirator masks out there, obviously work PPE. Masks are mostly being worn by retail employees and people who are obviously higher risk. I'm happy to say that the 99.9% are being worn correctly. Although I did run into a former neighbour today at the pharmacy and he didn't have his nose covered.
Covid testing at work today. It's unpleasant having someone stick something in your nose, but it's quick and not painful. Probably took a second. All of us women agreed that we'd take the nasal swab over a Pap test any day.
Yes, and I hear a lot of people talking about wearing a mask as though it exclusively is to protect the wearer and they are willing to take a risk. Too few people realize the mask is to protect others, not yourself.
Thankfully, the top manager at my work location is one of the few who takes it seriously and he sent an email to clarify for those in the office that are confused about when/where they should wear a mask. So I am hoping people at least start taking it seriously at work.
Gov Lee had a press conference yesterday encouraging mask use. They have gotten companies to make TN-themed and branded masks (college sports, Tractor Supply, Jack Daniels, and etc) to "make masks cool." Dr. Piercey (Dept of Health) said "Wearing a mask is NOT a political statement." She went on to explain how instead it was showing how we are taking care of all Tennesseans. Of course they also basically said that their goal has always been to keep the curve flat enough for hospitals to be fine, so they really don't care that the cases are going up at all right now. Ok, then... But they need to play that clip about the masks on the local news. Over and over. We do have a long way to go, but at least this development is encouraging, even though it is not enough.
When did we go from being the "Volunteer State" to the "Defiant Toddler State"?
I get glared down big time for wearing a mask here. But being 5'10" with broad-shoulders and Resting Witch Brows, I don't worry about it overmuch. I am protecting EVERYONE. I am showing people what STAYING OPEN in a pandemic looks like. It's hard for 6 people( my family) plus the other 10% of the county that are actually wearing masks to drag 60,000 people (whining and pontificating FREEDOM) where they don't want to go though. It is ridiculously difficult to get people to realize that if we don't social distance and wear masks in public we WILL be forced to close down again. You want to shop and work? YAY! Do that. Freedom! But there are new rules for a little while so that stays possible. Why? Very very contagious, possibly debilitating or deadly, virus! People, come on!
This all just makes me so discouraged and mentally tired.
I hear you. I’m in the Memphis suburbs and mask use is spotty. Maybe 50%? Maybe more, depending on location. This is before mask ordinance, haven’t been out much since, except to dr/pt and church. 100% use at dr & temp check and mask usage at PT. Church (spaced seating) is maybe 90%—I def give the side eye to non mask wearers—some in their 20s, some older. I sewed masks for my entire family and it can be a battle to keep a 4yo boy properly masked...why can’t you, a grown adult, wear one?? Especially since 50%+ of the people at church are elderly (bishop extended the dispensation of one’s Sunday obligation until September, so people, esp the vulnerable, can stay home with no moral qualms. Attendance is increasing, at least at my church.)
Many things are returning to almost normal. Despite not moving to Phase 3 yet our town baseball league is resuming games tonight (soccer, however, canceled plans for a summer league, but multiple programs are running indoor and outdoor summer camps). Some MDOs have been back in session for a few weeks. I am now the crazy one for pushing masks and being a bit more cautious.
North of Memphis in rural west TN is still at 0.5% mask usage and I don't think it was ever higher than 2% based on my observations.4 -
ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Based on the interview link I posted . . . it may go beyond that, to the probabilities.
Contact tracing is going to have to cut off at some point. Practicality (can you identify them) is one part of that, as you say. Probability of transmission is another.
To use an intentionally absurd/extreme example: If someone has Covid & licks a stamp and puts the envelope in their mailbox, then a mail deliverer handles the envelope and immediately touches their face, I suppose maybe there's a small chance of viral transfer in sufficient quantities to cause infection . . . but I doubt the contact tracers will be trying to identify who our mail deliverer is, even though it could be done in most cases.
My children were doing cards for a nursing home for a project a friend organized and my 12 year old opted to seal the envelope with stickers instead of licking it because of fewer germs. Proud of him for connecting those dots, but then I worry for his future emotional health because even as a child he showed strong OCD tendencies... if he, at 12, is already (by necessity) that aware of germs, where is he going to be when he gets my age? (It’s an ongoing battle in my brain - I can almost visualize germ transfer when out in public and I have to make focused efforts to try and turn it off so I don’t drive myself, and my family, absolutely mad... and this was pre-COVID).10 -
ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
That's what I tell myself about going up and down the aisle I don't need. 3 -
Ate at Los Portales for lunch with wife, kids and daughter in law for first dine in event since things went bat crazy. Some of the staff were wearing masks but not one person dining was wearing a mask. There were some missing tables.1
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https://themighty.com/2020/06/end-covid-19-quarantine-danger-chronic-illness/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Media_Partner&utm_campaign=PopSugar
My own experience varies a bit, but I also have frustrations about other's lack of care.3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Ate at Los Portales for lunch with wife, kids and daughter in law for first dine in event since things went bat crazy. Some of the staff were wearing masks but not one person dining was wearing a mask. There were some missing tables.
We went out to breakfast yesterday, for the first time since early March. No one came into the restaurant, besides us, with masks on. Wait staff was not wearing masks. Tables were spread out, big X’s in duct tape on every other booth and guests at least 6 feet apart. No condiments on tables. Very clean in appearance. Rural SE Minnesota, just north of Rochester. I have to admit I felt a twinge if guilt, just being there.10 -
here is a common theory that the greatest risk is indoor, prolonged close contact with groups of unmasked people. Which is why...trying not to be political...arguing that going to an indoor event with 20,000 people is the same risk as going to the grocery store does not make any scientific sense. Just an example....no politics.
yes if that were truly equal risk there would of been no point in any banning of gatherings or any restriction on gathering numbers like weddings funerals, sports crowds etc
which every single country did - so nothing political about that.
I assume all weddings and funerals, even without restricted numbers would be less than 20,000 anyway.
In order to have population compliance you have to have clear non partisan advice from the top.4 -
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Or you have a phone app that can be used for tracing who you have been in close contact with for more than15 minutes.
Of course that wont work totally even if you had a willing population - there are people who dont have mobile phones or who don't take them everywhere - but that is the idea: if you test positive, it traces people like someone stuck in a supermarket queue or a Dr's waiting room etc who you did not know.
We are now at zero cases in South Australia and opening things up again - you can go to weddings/funerals/social or sporting clubs with social distancing restrictions - and the co ordinaters of the event need to keep lists of names and phone numbers and arrival/leaving time of attendees.
Which is easy enough to do3 -
paperpudding wrote: »Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Or you have a phone app that can be used for tracing who you have been in close contact with for more than15 minutes.
Of course that wont work totally even if you had a willing population - there are people who dont have mobile phones or who don't take them everywhere - but that is the idea: if you test positive, it traces people like someone stuck in a supermarket queue or a Dr's waiting room etc who you did not know.
We are now at zero cases in South Australia and opening things up again - you can go to weddings/funerals/social or sporting clubs with social distancing restrictions - and the co ordinaters of the event need to keep lists of names and phone numbers and arrival/leaving time of attendees.
Which is easy enough to do
The functionality was added to phones in the US (Android and iPhone), but not enabled because waiting on the government to come up with the other piece.
If you have an Android phone, go under Settings, then GOOGLE settings and it's there.. If you have an IPhone, go to settings, privacy then health.1 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Or you have a phone app that can be used for tracing who you have been in close contact with for more than15 minutes.
Of course that wont work totally even if you had a willing population - there are people who dont have mobile phones or who don't take them everywhere - but that is the idea: if you test positive, it traces people like someone stuck in a supermarket queue or a Dr's waiting room etc who you did not know.
We are now at zero cases in South Australia and opening things up again - you can go to weddings/funerals/social or sporting clubs with social distancing restrictions - and the co ordinaters of the event need to keep lists of names and phone numbers and arrival/leaving time of attendees.
Which is easy enough to do
The functionality was added to phones in the US (Android and iPhone), but not enabled because waiting on the government to come up with the other piece.
If you have an Android phone, go under Settings, then GOOGLE settings and it's there.. If you have an IPhone, go to settings, privacy then health.
I'm not sure what you mean by "waiting for the government to come up with the other piece"
In Australia (and Singapore and a few other countries, I believe) the government has set up an app - called Covidsafe and is strongly encouraging people to download it.
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I don't think we have an app which links to that phone health setting here in the US. "You cannot turn on Exposure Logging without an authorized app installed that can send Exposure Notifications ...."0
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I think is it is more than there just being an app that people are not sure if they have access to
Here in Australia (and Singapore and co, I presume) one would have had to be hiding under a rock for the last 2 months to not know there is an app and to not know the government wants you to download it.
(if you have a mobile phone, of course)1 -
paperpudding wrote: »I think is it is more than there just being an app that people are not sure if they have access to
Here in Australia (and Singapore and co, I presume) one would have had to be hiding under a rock for the last 2 months to not know there is an app and to not know the government wants you to download it.
(if you have a mobile phone, of course)
Well, smart phones or other mobile devices with internet access anyway. Not mobile phones without internet access.0 -
Last week I did get my first hair cut, massage and pedicure in 3-4 months.
It seems based on the news coming out of China that it indicates that a hard shutdown can flatten the curve only to see it get worse again even if in another city. It seems the irrational COVID-19 fear from the medical news media is turning into a realization the corona virus will be with us for years. Like with HIV and other viruses a safe and wholly effective vaccine may not be realized for many years to come.
In the meantime the will to live indicates it is time to move from an irrational fear of getting COVID-19 and running out of toilet paper and getting on with life by showing full respect but not fear of the current corona virus and the new ones coming our way. We can see COVID-19 is not to be feared like our many man made crises in the news today that the will to address seems to be lacking.
I feel COVID-19 will fade from our minds but our years of human abuses in all nations of the world is still a concern for the children and future children quality of living.
Hopefully the coming endemics will be addressed up front so they never become pandemics if we learn anything from our current corona virus prepping actions.6 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Or you have a phone app that can be used for tracing who you have been in close contact with for more than15 minutes.
Of course that wont work totally even if you had a willing population - there are people who dont have mobile phones or who don't take them everywhere - but that is the idea: if you test positive, it traces people like someone stuck in a supermarket queue or a Dr's waiting room etc who you did not know.
We are now at zero cases in South Australia and opening things up again - you can go to weddings/funerals/social or sporting clubs with social distancing restrictions - and the co ordinaters of the event need to keep lists of names and phone numbers and arrival/leaving time of attendees.
Which is easy enough to do
The functionality was added to phones in the US (Android and iPhone), but not enabled because waiting on the government to come up with the other piece.
If you have an Android phone, go under Settings, then GOOGLE settings and it's there.. If you have an IPhone, go to settings, privacy then health.
Huh. Thanks for this. I didn't realize they had already put this on our phones. I wonder when it will go active?0 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »baconslave wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »@MikePfirrman - thank you for the update on your fire situation. I've been thinking about you, and I'm glad to hear that it shouldn't get much closer to you guys.Diatonic12 wrote: »Three things never die. Cactus, Fruitcake and 'Rona.
LOL!
So, I'm home self-quarantining. I have what I strongly suspect to be an ear infection. Tried to get an appointment to have my ear checked and ended up with a tele-appointment where the doc told me I could have anything from vertigo to heart disease.
When I asked if I could just have an appointment so she could check my ear, she told me (more alluded than a direct statement) that I had to test negative for COVID before I'd be allowed in the office. 
So yesterday I got tested, and now I wait for the negative test. I'm hoping by the time the test comes back the ear infection resolves itself. But in the meantime I get to stay home and sleep, and I'm okay with that. HOWEVER, my faith in tele-medicine has totally tanked. I think the doc was googling my symptoms while we talked... (kidding. Sorta).
Fortunately you are able to get tested... I still am unaware of any way in my area to get tested unless showing "severe symptoms." (According to the county health dept., even people with mild symptoms don't get tested.)
I went to the urgent care in May (I moved a year ago and never setup a new PCP here). They had people scan temps in car when you enter the parking lot, but that was it. Like you hope in your case, the tests took so long that my symptoms resolved themselves anyway. And the results were not even very certain anyway, so not sure how the dr. would have treated it if I still was experiencing issues.
See, we're "supposed to" be able to go to the Health Dept. And "anyone who thinks they need to test can get a test." As long as you go in the 2-hr window they are actually testing that day. How that translates into reality...well dubious isn't a strong enough word.
@baconslave Not sure where you are at, but I am in west TN near the MO border and nobody here is wearing masks or taking this seriously except at work where fortunately we have a manager that cares.
At least you have the manager! My hubby has been working from home. I'm just a homeschooling stay-at-homer. But I made masks for my family in March. None of us has been outside our property without them since the lockdown.
We're in Northeast TN on the border of NC in the mtns. We're almost an hour drive from Bristol. It's hit and miss for employees wearing masks, but mostly miss. The only place I have seen employees with masks is the eye doctor office and Domino's Pizza. None at Little Caesar's or the Food City (grocery). Now if you travel in the opposite direction to the larger town next door, which we do as we live so far out in our county we're almost in the next and travel to that town is about the same time, Krogering nets us 40% mask wearers and employees who don't wear them are the exception. We refuse to go to Walmart around here because we know these people and know they aren't wearing them. We were the only mask wearers in Lowe's when I had to get some soil for the garden, no employees wearing them either. I went to the bank and none of the tellers were wearing any but they had what I call "sneeze guards." Big sheets of plexiglass across the counter. Oh the glares! And no shoppers except 1 elderly gentlemen had masks besides me at the Dollar General. Keep glaring at me. Whatever...
I have a 76-year-old Dad who very much does not care to die, and my sister and I agree we don't want him to die either. So basically we quarantine to protect him. My kids can't see my inlaws at all b/c shopping and dining without social distancing and masks is more important to them than their grandchildren. My husband is so pissed at them. And my friends and I can't hang out, nor can my teens and their friends hang out because none of the friends or their parents take it seriously either. I'm getting really tired of looking at these 4 walls. But we have gone camping a couple times, but no contact with other campers. We have an RV so we don't use the bathhouses. My kids are good about distancing. And won't go near the playground and other kids since we've said no. So at least we have that. The kids all have bikes, and we can hike as well.
The whole Tennessee Pledge was nothing but lipstick on a pig. I like the Governor a lot, but he cares too much about getting reelected. He's out of touch. I don't know what people are like out west or in the bigger cities of our state, but us Appy's are a different breed of special apparently anymore. (I'm a native btw.) Ok. We were special to begin with but it's just getting worse. "Don't tell me what to do, don't ask me to do anything that will help people other than myself, and if you try, you're a sheep, don't take muh freedom, and we hate you for generations!" I swear to the Lord that people here have turned into Eric Cartman. "I don't care! I do what I WANT!" :huh: I am trying very hard to raise my kids to not be *kitten* and these are the role models we're getting.
If y'all think I'm sounding a bit exasperated, you're on the mark. 9 -
@GaleHawkins I always give you a hug because I am not the Thought Police.
When the chewing, gnawing and biting locusts show up on our doorsteps we'll do what we've always done. Look back at everything in hindsight and wish we'd done a better job of prognosticating instead of flying by the seat of our pants. We're human and we will always make mistakes.
Keep tooling along, Gale. Our mileage may always vary but variety is fun. Connection is fun. It's everything that I enjoy about this place. Come 'hail' or high water. 'Rona. Chewing, gnawing and biting locusts.
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gradchica27 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
Some in Tucson are whining up a storm about the mandatory mask requirements. Have to read up to see how restaurants and bars will handle that. I'm not sure if people realize we are the only country whining about masks. About masks. SMH. The popular Sheriff in our town (one of the ones, "I'm gonna live my life" guys) just tested positive for Covid-19. He was supposed to meet the President this weekend! I guess he got tested in advance and found out he had it! He's fairly young and healthy, so I wish him well. But to ignore it is ignorant.
I suspect the whiners firmly believe that the compliant mask-wearers are all "sheeple" anyway.
What I've noticed here (and we have very few active cases, all currently hospitalized) is that women have promptly turned mask wearing into a fashion statement and happily sport a fabric mask with a print that reflects a hobby or some aspect of their personality. Younger men seem to like to wear industrial style masks, I've even seen some very fancy respirator masks out there, obviously work PPE. Masks are mostly being worn by retail employees and people who are obviously higher risk. I'm happy to say that the 99.9% are being worn correctly. Although I did run into a former neighbour today at the pharmacy and he didn't have his nose covered.
Covid testing at work today. It's unpleasant having someone stick something in your nose, but it's quick and not painful. Probably took a second. All of us women agreed that we'd take the nasal swab over a Pap test any day.
Yes, and I hear a lot of people talking about wearing a mask as though it exclusively is to protect the wearer and they are willing to take a risk. Too few people realize the mask is to protect others, not yourself.
Thankfully, the top manager at my work location is one of the few who takes it seriously and he sent an email to clarify for those in the office that are confused about when/where they should wear a mask. So I am hoping people at least start taking it seriously at work.
Gov Lee had a press conference yesterday encouraging mask use. They have gotten companies to make TN-themed and branded masks (college sports, Tractor Supply, Jack Daniels, and etc) to "make masks cool." Dr. Piercey (Dept of Health) said "Wearing a mask is NOT a political statement." She went on to explain how instead it was showing how we are taking care of all Tennesseans. Of course they also basically said that their goal has always been to keep the curve flat enough for hospitals to be fine, so they really don't care that the cases are going up at all right now. Ok, then... But they need to play that clip about the masks on the local news. Over and over. We do have a long way to go, but at least this development is encouraging, even though it is not enough.
When did we go from being the "Volunteer State" to the "Defiant Toddler State"?
I get glared down big time for wearing a mask here. But being 5'10" with broad-shoulders and Resting Witch Brows, I don't worry about it overmuch. I am protecting EVERYONE. I am showing people what STAYING OPEN in a pandemic looks like. It's hard for 6 people( my family) plus the other 10% of the county that are actually wearing masks to drag 60,000 people (whining and pontificating FREEDOM) where they don't want to go though. It is ridiculously difficult to get people to realize that if we don't social distance and wear masks in public we WILL be forced to close down again. You want to shop and work? YAY! Do that. Freedom! But there are new rules for a little while so that stays possible. Why? Very very contagious, possibly debilitating or deadly, virus! People, come on!
This all just makes me so discouraged and mentally tired.
I hear you. I’m in the Memphis suburbs and mask use is spotty. Maybe 50%? Maybe more, depending on location. This is before mask ordinance, haven’t been out much since, except to dr/pt and church. 100% use at dr & temp check and mask usage at PT. Church (spaced seating) is maybe 90%—I def give the side eye to non mask wearers—some in their 20s, some older. I sewed masks for my entire family and it can be a battle to keep a 4yo boy properly masked...why can’t you, a grown adult, wear one?? Especially since 50%+ of the people at church are elderly (bishop extended the dispensation of one’s Sunday obligation until September, so people, esp the vulnerable, can stay home with no moral qualms. Attendance is increasing, at least at my church.)
Many things are returning to almost normal. Despite not moving to Phase 3 yet our town baseball league is resuming games tonight (soccer, however, canceled plans for a summer league, but multiple programs are running indoor and outdoor summer camps). Some MDOs have been back in session for a few weeks. I am now the crazy one for pushing masks and being a bit more cautious.
We have no local ordinances here. The local govt refuses to do anything. Many folks, my inlaws included NEVER locked anything down. Tennessee Pledge...such a joke. Most people don't wear masks and I get full-on glares for wearing mine. Oh well. It is what it is. Most businesses and customers aren't wearing masks. Some stores are better than others, but this is not the 60%-70% compliance required to tamp the virus down and keep it down. The one dr appt was awesome. They were on it. The DMV had all employees taking temps and doing well, but though signage said wear a mask, the employees weren't enforcing and people were maybe 50% compliant. But it wasn't what I'd call busy, so the % might show different if it were a busy day.
Our church went back last week, but we have had online sermons since the start of the lockdown. They are keeping that up for those who aren't ready. The pastor made a point to say that no judgment is to be made against anyone who isn't able yet to return due to susceptible family or other circumstance or just not yet feeling safe enough. 2 services: one for the elderly on Saturday. One for the folks with kids and younger folk on Sunday. No children's church or Sunday school. They said everyone needs to wear their masks. I don't know how that translated into compliance though since we aren't going back yet due to protecting my Dad. Our church is a little more...different, which is why we even started going there, but they do have a lot of elderly folk, and they are mostly conscientious people, I think so they might. But then, this whole pandemic has illustrated people's cores in vivid color and the picture hasn't always been as pretty as I might have expected!
They have started a High School baseball league here for all the high school players who didn't get their season. But no word on summer/fall soccer. We had our spring season cancelled, but I don't expect the fall will pan out. Very little compliance. The libraries in this town and the next are staying closed but have started a Curbside Pickup option that seems to be working out. No summer camps, but there are a few places doing outdoor programs (state parks on the weekends for campers) and one day outdoor camps.
Thanks for responding with what is going on in your area. I've been curious what this mess is looking like in other parts of the state. Seems like your area is less of a trainwreck than ours. So far our cases have been low. I suspect it's a two-fold thing, parts of our county are VERY rural. And the rest is that despite lip-service, effort to test has been extremely low. You can only get tested (if you aren't hospitalized) if you go to the Health Dept within a 2 hour window each day during the work week. We had one pop-up test site for one Sat afternoon about a month ago. People here don't want to know, so they don't get tested unless they are forced to from a doctor. I know I couldn't get my inlaws to get tested so we'd know if we had to quarantine when they showed up unannounced while sick and coughed all over my house. They even know about my Dad and how he feels and they just didn't care, so we had to quarantine from him for 2 weeks. He's very independent but does not do well mentally when left alone too long! All they had to do is take an hour of their time to get tested and we'd have known in 3 days. But instead 7 people's lives had to be disrupted for 14 days, while they not only got to carry on doing whatever they wanted, but they got to look down their noses at us and be irritated with US for their selfishness. I can't even! But they don't appear to be unique in that attitude for our area. I'm sure I'll get an earful from hubby when he gets back from the grocery store in a bit about people still refusing to follow the guidelines.
Numbers are starting to go up now though here which I expect to continue. We don't have a lot of hospital capacity since there's been a lot of hospital consolidation locally when Ballad bought our system. I do hope people are ok. We have an excellent VA hospital close so I'm not too worried about Dad unless things get apocalyptic here. It wouldn't if everyone would quit being big babies and just distance and wear a mask. But that's too much to ask adults to do apparently.
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ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
Interesting, thanks. I'll put it in my queue.0 -
bump
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Apple has placed an APP on the IPhone which, when activated, can track ppl who need to be notified about close contact with someone who has tested positive. Check in Settings, Privacy, Health.
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baconslave wrote: »gradchica27 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
Some in Tucson are whining up a storm about the mandatory mask requirements. Have to read up to see how restaurants and bars will handle that. I'm not sure if people realize we are the only country whining about masks. About masks. SMH. The popular Sheriff in our town (one of the ones, "I'm gonna live my life" guys) just tested positive for Covid-19. He was supposed to meet the President this weekend! I guess he got tested in advance and found out he had it! He's fairly young and healthy, so I wish him well. But to ignore it is ignorant.
I suspect the whiners firmly believe that the compliant mask-wearers are all "sheeple" anyway.
What I've noticed here (and we have very few active cases, all currently hospitalized) is that women have promptly turned mask wearing into a fashion statement and happily sport a fabric mask with a print that reflects a hobby or some aspect of their personality. Younger men seem to like to wear industrial style masks, I've even seen some very fancy respirator masks out there, obviously work PPE. Masks are mostly being worn by retail employees and people who are obviously higher risk. I'm happy to say that the 99.9% are being worn correctly. Although I did run into a former neighbour today at the pharmacy and he didn't have his nose covered.
Covid testing at work today. It's unpleasant having someone stick something in your nose, but it's quick and not painful. Probably took a second. All of us women agreed that we'd take the nasal swab over a Pap test any day.
Yes, and I hear a lot of people talking about wearing a mask as though it exclusively is to protect the wearer and they are willing to take a risk. Too few people realize the mask is to protect others, not yourself.
Thankfully, the top manager at my work location is one of the few who takes it seriously and he sent an email to clarify for those in the office that are confused about when/where they should wear a mask. So I am hoping people at least start taking it seriously at work.
Gov Lee had a press conference yesterday encouraging mask use. They have gotten companies to make TN-themed and branded masks (college sports, Tractor Supply, Jack Daniels, and etc) to "make masks cool." Dr. Piercey (Dept of Health) said "Wearing a mask is NOT a political statement." She went on to explain how instead it was showing how we are taking care of all Tennesseans. Of course they also basically said that their goal has always been to keep the curve flat enough for hospitals to be fine, so they really don't care that the cases are going up at all right now. Ok, then... But they need to play that clip about the masks on the local news. Over and over. We do have a long way to go, but at least this development is encouraging, even though it is not enough.
When did we go from being the "Volunteer State" to the "Defiant Toddler State"?
I get glared down big time for wearing a mask here. But being 5'10" with broad-shoulders and Resting Witch Brows, I don't worry about it overmuch. I am protecting EVERYONE. I am showing people what STAYING OPEN in a pandemic looks like. It's hard for 6 people( my family) plus the other 10% of the county that are actually wearing masks to drag 60,000 people (whining and pontificating FREEDOM) where they don't want to go though. It is ridiculously difficult to get people to realize that if we don't social distance and wear masks in public we WILL be forced to close down again. You want to shop and work? YAY! Do that. Freedom! But there are new rules for a little while so that stays possible. Why? Very very contagious, possibly debilitating or deadly, virus! People, come on!
This all just makes me so discouraged and mentally tired.
I hear you. I’m in the Memphis suburbs and mask use is spotty. Maybe 50%? Maybe more, depending on location. This is before mask ordinance, haven’t been out much since, except to dr/pt and church. 100% use at dr & temp check and mask usage at PT. Church (spaced seating) is maybe 90%—I def give the side eye to non mask wearers—some in their 20s, some older. I sewed masks for my entire family and it can be a battle to keep a 4yo boy properly masked...why can’t you, a grown adult, wear one?? Especially since 50%+ of the people at church are elderly (bishop extended the dispensation of one’s Sunday obligation until September, so people, esp the vulnerable, can stay home with no moral qualms. Attendance is increasing, at least at my church.)
Many things are returning to almost normal. Despite not moving to Phase 3 yet our town baseball league is resuming games tonight (soccer, however, canceled plans for a summer league, but multiple programs are running indoor and outdoor summer camps). Some MDOs have been back in session for a few weeks. I am now the crazy one for pushing masks and being a bit more cautious.
We have no local ordinances here. The local govt refuses to do anything. Many folks, my inlaws included NEVER locked anything down. Tennessee Pledge...such a joke. Most people don't wear masks and I get full-on glares for wearing mine. Oh well. It is what it is. Most businesses and customers aren't wearing masks. Some stores are better than others, but this is not the 60%-70% compliance required to tamp the virus down and keep it down. The one dr appt was awesome. They were on it. The DMV had all employees taking temps and doing well, but though signage said wear a mask, the employees weren't enforcing and people were maybe 50% compliant. But it wasn't what I'd call busy, so the % might show different if it were a busy day.
Our church went back last week, but we have had online sermons since the start of the lockdown. They are keeping that up for those who aren't ready. The pastor made a point to say that no judgment is to be made against anyone who isn't able yet to return due to susceptible family or other circumstance or just not yet feeling safe enough. 2 services: one for the elderly on Saturday. One for the folks with kids and younger folk on Sunday. No children's church or Sunday school. They said everyone needs to wear their masks. I don't know how that translated into compliance though since we aren't going back yet due to protecting my Dad. Our church is a little more...different, which is why we even started going there, but they do have a lot of elderly folk, and they are mostly conscientious people, I think so they might. But then, this whole pandemic has illustrated people's cores in vivid color and the picture hasn't always been as pretty as I might have expected!
They have started a High School baseball league here for all the high school players who didn't get their season. But no word on summer/fall soccer. We had our spring season cancelled, but I don't expect the fall will pan out. Very little compliance. The libraries in this town and the next are staying closed but have started a Curbside Pickup option that seems to be working out. No summer camps, but there are a few places doing outdoor programs (state parks on the weekends for campers) and one day outdoor camps.
Thanks for responding with what is going on in your area. I've been curious what this mess is looking like in other parts of the state. Seems like your area is less of a trainwreck than ours. So far our cases have been low. I suspect it's a two-fold thing, parts of our county are VERY rural. And the rest is that despite lip-service, effort to test has been extremely low. You can only get tested (if you aren't hospitalized) if you go to the Health Dept within a 2 hour window each day during the work week. We had one pop-up test site for one Sat afternoon about a month ago. People here don't want to know, so they don't get tested unless they are forced to from a doctor. I know I couldn't get my inlaws to get tested so we'd know if we had to quarantine when they showed up unannounced while sick and coughed all over my house. They even know about my Dad and how he feels and they just didn't care, so we had to quarantine from him for 2 weeks. He's very independent but does not do well mentally when left alone too long! All they had to do is take an hour of their time to get tested and we'd have known in 3 days. But instead 7 people's lives had to be disrupted for 14 days, while they not only got to carry on doing whatever they wanted, but they got to look down their noses at us and be irritated with US for their selfishness. I can't even! But they don't appear to be unique in that attitude for our area. I'm sure I'll get an earful from hubby when he gets back from the grocery store in a bit about people still refusing to follow the guidelines.
Numbers are starting to go up now though here which I expect to continue. We don't have a lot of hospital capacity since there's been a lot of hospital consolidation locally when Ballad bought our system. I do hope people are ok. We have an excellent VA hospital close so I'm not too worried about Dad unless things get apocalyptic here. It wouldn't if everyone would quit being big babies and just distance and wear a mask. But that's too much to ask adults to do apparently.
Update: taking my son for a post quarantine haircut before his First Communion Mass this afternoon (our pastor was kind enough to do a private Mass for him and his BFF, so it’ll just be two families...otherwise we’d have to wait until mid Sept, and we were worried we’d end up in the same position again w quarantine). All customers/employees wearing masks, chairs distanced. Shopping center is definitely full, though I think ppl are taking advantage of the online sign in for haircuts, so few ppl waiting.
ETA: just saw you were a homeschooler too! I’m helping to host a curriculum night for local homeschooling group to help people thinking about homeschooling to see different materials and talk w veteran homeschoolers. We’re seeing an uptick in inquiries into the group/homeschooling in general now that schools are floating their possibilities for next year. Are you seeing the same?1 -
goldthistime wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Ann - you might not be willing to, but non-dairy stuff lasts a lot longer in the fridge (like two months). More stuff in it, but it's not bad if you use it in coffee.
Sounds like an animal shelter, not what a hospital should have to ask for. Crazy times.
Thanks, Mike. I'm willing, but not wanting to. The skim milk in my coffee is an important contributor to my protein goal (I drink 2 cups of coffee, each with 3/4C hot skim milk!) at almost 5% of total, as well as my enjoyment, and I don't enjoy protein powder at all, so I don't want to go that route instead. In normal life, I'd buy more cartons of milk at a time (they keep a couple of months, usually, unopened, too . . . but I'm trying to stick to 2 at a time to be a non-hoarder).
Basically, I'm trapped in a conspiracy between my hedonism (like my milk!), and my community spirit (don't buy 4 or more cartons like I would in normal times (I hate to shop, always)!).
I just finished my 3 litres of frozen bagged milk, and it was fine! I went out shopping on Monday and bought another two bags, one for my fridge and one for the freezer. Mine never completely thawed in the fridge, so it cooled my coffee down faster than normal, but it just meant that I could drink it sooner.
With apologies for the digression/backtrack, I wanted to thank @goldthistime for the tip about freezing milk, back in April. Works great! (I'd PM, but PMs don't often work on MFP unless official friends.) I don't think it would've occurred to me, and I have a giant chest freezer. We don't have bags, but I've frozen both the coated-paper-type cartons, and plastic jugs.
This has really helped me with extending the time between essential grocery trips, while still eating in the way I most enjoy. (Typo in my PP: The milk is fifteen percent of my daily protein, not five percent, so important, and I really like it besides. I go through a half-gallon in about 5 days, typically.)
I never expected I'd be planning shopping by timing the rate-controlling essentials. 4 -
gradchica27 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »gradchica27 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
Some in Tucson are whining up a storm about the mandatory mask requirements. Have to read up to see how restaurants and bars will handle that. I'm not sure if people realize we are the only country whining about masks. About masks. SMH. The popular Sheriff in our town (one of the ones, "I'm gonna live my life" guys) just tested positive for Covid-19. He was supposed to meet the President this weekend! I guess he got tested in advance and found out he had it! He's fairly young and healthy, so I wish him well. But to ignore it is ignorant.
I suspect the whiners firmly believe that the compliant mask-wearers are all "sheeple" anyway.
What I've noticed here (and we have very few active cases, all currently hospitalized) is that women have promptly turned mask wearing into a fashion statement and happily sport a fabric mask with a print that reflects a hobby or some aspect of their personality. Younger men seem to like to wear industrial style masks, I've even seen some very fancy respirator masks out there, obviously work PPE. Masks are mostly being worn by retail employees and people who are obviously higher risk. I'm happy to say that the 99.9% are being worn correctly. Although I did run into a former neighbour today at the pharmacy and he didn't have his nose covered.
Covid testing at work today. It's unpleasant having someone stick something in your nose, but it's quick and not painful. Probably took a second. All of us women agreed that we'd take the nasal swab over a Pap test any day.
Yes, and I hear a lot of people talking about wearing a mask as though it exclusively is to protect the wearer and they are willing to take a risk. Too few people realize the mask is to protect others, not yourself.
Thankfully, the top manager at my work location is one of the few who takes it seriously and he sent an email to clarify for those in the office that are confused about when/where they should wear a mask. So I am hoping people at least start taking it seriously at work.
Gov Lee had a press conference yesterday encouraging mask use. They have gotten companies to make TN-themed and branded masks (college sports, Tractor Supply, Jack Daniels, and etc) to "make masks cool." Dr. Piercey (Dept of Health) said "Wearing a mask is NOT a political statement." She went on to explain how instead it was showing how we are taking care of all Tennesseans. Of course they also basically said that their goal has always been to keep the curve flat enough for hospitals to be fine, so they really don't care that the cases are going up at all right now. Ok, then... But they need to play that clip about the masks on the local news. Over and over. We do have a long way to go, but at least this development is encouraging, even though it is not enough.
When did we go from being the "Volunteer State" to the "Defiant Toddler State"?
I get glared down big time for wearing a mask here. But being 5'10" with broad-shoulders and Resting Witch Brows, I don't worry about it overmuch. I am protecting EVERYONE. I am showing people what STAYING OPEN in a pandemic looks like. It's hard for 6 people( my family) plus the other 10% of the county that are actually wearing masks to drag 60,000 people (whining and pontificating FREEDOM) where they don't want to go though. It is ridiculously difficult to get people to realize that if we don't social distance and wear masks in public we WILL be forced to close down again. You want to shop and work? YAY! Do that. Freedom! But there are new rules for a little while so that stays possible. Why? Very very contagious, possibly debilitating or deadly, virus! People, come on!
This all just makes me so discouraged and mentally tired.
I hear you. I’m in the Memphis suburbs and mask use is spotty. Maybe 50%? Maybe more, depending on location. This is before mask ordinance, haven’t been out much since, except to dr/pt and church. 100% use at dr & temp check and mask usage at PT. Church (spaced seating) is maybe 90%—I def give the side eye to non mask wearers—some in their 20s, some older. I sewed masks for my entire family and it can be a battle to keep a 4yo boy properly masked...why can’t you, a grown adult, wear one?? Especially since 50%+ of the people at church are elderly (bishop extended the dispensation of one’s Sunday obligation until September, so people, esp the vulnerable, can stay home with no moral qualms. Attendance is increasing, at least at my church.)
Many things are returning to almost normal. Despite not moving to Phase 3 yet our town baseball league is resuming games tonight (soccer, however, canceled plans for a summer league, but multiple programs are running indoor and outdoor summer camps). Some MDOs have been back in session for a few weeks. I am now the crazy one for pushing masks and being a bit more cautious.
We have no local ordinances here. The local govt refuses to do anything. Many folks, my inlaws included NEVER locked anything down. Tennessee Pledge...such a joke. Most people don't wear masks and I get full-on glares for wearing mine. Oh well. It is what it is. Most businesses and customers aren't wearing masks. Some stores are better than others, but this is not the 60%-70% compliance required to tamp the virus down and keep it down. The one dr appt was awesome. They were on it. The DMV had all employees taking temps and doing well, but though signage said wear a mask, the employees weren't enforcing and people were maybe 50% compliant. But it wasn't what I'd call busy, so the % might show different if it were a busy day.
Our church went back last week, but we have had online sermons since the start of the lockdown. They are keeping that up for those who aren't ready. The pastor made a point to say that no judgment is to be made against anyone who isn't able yet to return due to susceptible family or other circumstance or just not yet feeling safe enough. 2 services: one for the elderly on Saturday. One for the folks with kids and younger folk on Sunday. No children's church or Sunday school. They said everyone needs to wear their masks. I don't know how that translated into compliance though since we aren't going back yet due to protecting my Dad. Our church is a little more...different, which is why we even started going there, but they do have a lot of elderly folk, and they are mostly conscientious people, I think so they might. But then, this whole pandemic has illustrated people's cores in vivid color and the picture hasn't always been as pretty as I might have expected!
They have started a High School baseball league here for all the high school players who didn't get their season. But no word on summer/fall soccer. We had our spring season cancelled, but I don't expect the fall will pan out. Very little compliance. The libraries in this town and the next are staying closed but have started a Curbside Pickup option that seems to be working out. No summer camps, but there are a few places doing outdoor programs (state parks on the weekends for campers) and one day outdoor camps.
Thanks for responding with what is going on in your area. I've been curious what this mess is looking like in other parts of the state. Seems like your area is less of a trainwreck than ours. So far our cases have been low. I suspect it's a two-fold thing, parts of our county are VERY rural. And the rest is that despite lip-service, effort to test has been extremely low. You can only get tested (if you aren't hospitalized) if you go to the Health Dept within a 2 hour window each day during the work week. We had one pop-up test site for one Sat afternoon about a month ago. People here don't want to know, so they don't get tested unless they are forced to from a doctor. I know I couldn't get my inlaws to get tested so we'd know if we had to quarantine when they showed up unannounced while sick and coughed all over my house. They even know about my Dad and how he feels and they just didn't care, so we had to quarantine from him for 2 weeks. He's very independent but does not do well mentally when left alone too long! All they had to do is take an hour of their time to get tested and we'd have known in 3 days. But instead 7 people's lives had to be disrupted for 14 days, while they not only got to carry on doing whatever they wanted, but they got to look down their noses at us and be irritated with US for their selfishness. I can't even! But they don't appear to be unique in that attitude for our area. I'm sure I'll get an earful from hubby when he gets back from the grocery store in a bit about people still refusing to follow the guidelines.
Numbers are starting to go up now though here which I expect to continue. We don't have a lot of hospital capacity since there's been a lot of hospital consolidation locally when Ballad bought our system. I do hope people are ok. We have an excellent VA hospital close so I'm not too worried about Dad unless things get apocalyptic here. It wouldn't if everyone would quit being big babies and just distance and wear a mask. But that's too much to ask adults to do apparently.
Update: taking my son for a post quarantine haircut before his First Communion Mass this afternoon (our pastor was kind enough to do a private Mass for him and his BFF, so it’ll just be two families...otherwise we’d have to wait until mid Sept, and we were worried we’d end up in the same position again w quarantine). All customers/employees wearing masks, chairs distanced. Shopping center is definitely full, though I think ppl are taking advantage of the online sign in for haircuts, so few ppl waiting.
ETA: just saw you were a homeschooler too! I’m helping to host a curriculum night for local homeschooling group to help people thinking about homeschooling to see different materials and talk w veteran homeschoolers. We’re seeing an uptick in inquiries into the group/homeschooling in general now that schools are floating their possibilities for next year. Are you seeing the same?
Yes. The umbrella school (I mean CRS ) has been advertising a lot about articles and videos for new homeschoolers and within the co-op there have been inquires of who people can contact. Our co-op is very small though, but there's a larger one the next town over. I was going to get involved with that one this year before the pandemic. We probably won't be getting involved with either this year. While I trust my teen son to wear his mask and social distance, my hubby doesn't feel comfortable with letting him go since the classrooms are very small and the other families are not interested in being careful. I def don't trust the 9-year-old or the 11-year-old to be careful. I have heard there are a few local public schoolers very uneasy about school coming back so soon and maybe looking to homeschool.
Glad to hear some non-madness in your area. That's was awesome of your pastor! Ours is like that. If we needed him, he would make something happen.
Hubby was not pleased with what he saw this morning. Kroger was almost decent (for our area) with all employees in masks and 50% of customers. But he was the only one with a mask at the Grocery Outlet (no employees masked) and Burger King (employees masked but none of them had them on right: lots around the neck and some with mouth covered but nose exposed.) *sigh*5 -
paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Or you have a phone app that can be used for tracing who you have been in close contact with for more than15 minutes.
Of course that wont work totally even if you had a willing population - there are people who dont have mobile phones or who don't take them everywhere - but that is the idea: if you test positive, it traces people like someone stuck in a supermarket queue or a Dr's waiting room etc who you did not know.
We are now at zero cases in South Australia and opening things up again - you can go to weddings/funerals/social or sporting clubs with social distancing restrictions - and the co ordinaters of the event need to keep lists of names and phone numbers and arrival/leaving time of attendees.
Which is easy enough to do
The functionality was added to phones in the US (Android and iPhone), but not enabled because waiting on the government to come up with the other piece.
If you have an Android phone, go under Settings, then GOOGLE settings and it's there.. If you have an IPhone, go to settings, privacy then health.
I'm not sure what you mean by "waiting for the government to come up with the other piece"
In Australia (and Singapore and a few other countries, I believe) the government has set up an app - called Covidsafe and is strongly encouraging people to download it.JustSomeEm wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Or you have a phone app that can be used for tracing who you have been in close contact with for more than15 minutes.
Of course that wont work totally even if you had a willing population - there are people who dont have mobile phones or who don't take them everywhere - but that is the idea: if you test positive, it traces people like someone stuck in a supermarket queue or a Dr's waiting room etc who you did not know.
We are now at zero cases in South Australia and opening things up again - you can go to weddings/funerals/social or sporting clubs with social distancing restrictions - and the co ordinaters of the event need to keep lists of names and phone numbers and arrival/leaving time of attendees.
Which is easy enough to do
The functionality was added to phones in the US (Android and iPhone), but not enabled because waiting on the government to come up with the other piece.
If you have an Android phone, go under Settings, then GOOGLE settings and it's there.. If you have an IPhone, go to settings, privacy then health.
Huh. Thanks for this. I didn't realize they had already put this on our phones. I wonder when it will go active?
I mean the government needs to come up with an app to work with this.
Here's some documentation about it... https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/current/static/contact-tracing/pdf/ExposureNotification-FAQv1.1.pdf
See Page 3 (bold added to emphasize important points):To power this solution in the first phase, both companies will release application programming
interfaces (APIs) that allow contact tracing apps from public health authorities to work across
Android and iOS devices, while maintaining user privacy. These apps from public health
authorities will be available for users to download via their respective app stores. Once the app
is launched, the user will then need to consent to the terms and conditions before the program
is active. The companies plan to make these APIs available in May.
If a match is detected the user will be notified, and if the user has not already
downloaded an official public health authority app they will be prompted to download an official
app and advised on next steps. Only public health authorities will have access to this
technology and their apps must meet specific criteria around privacy, security, and data control.
As of yet, there is no "official public health authority app" - at least not that I'm aware of - to be downloaded from the app stores.2 -
ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
I want to underscore this after some subsequent posts:
Truly, the information I'm reading/hearing lately is suggesting that length of exposure to an affected person is one important variable, along with others like proximity, and conditions (masks, airflow, etc.). That's why the "15 minute" idea comes into assessing statistical probability of infection. Length of contact changes the odds of transmission meaningfully, IMU.
IIRC, the interview whose link I posted earlier (https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk) was one that made this point.
Essentially, an epidemiologist (I think that one in that interview) said that people are imagining the virus as a sort of particle that kind of hops off one person (via droplets/mist kind of thing) in passing or at random, and that's it, you're infected. But it's more realistic (as I understand it) to think of it as needing to get to a certain viral load in the exposure, a certain volume of viral particles. Oversimplifying, that can happen in brief time if (say) an unmasked infected person sneezes or yells right at my unmasked face, or it can happen if I sit a few feet away from someone in an indoor area for a longer time period with the ventilation/breeze directing their exhalates toward me, so that viral bits accumulate gradually over a period of time.
Sure, without contact tracing apps, we don't know who was passing by us at the grocery store, so we can't contact and warn them. But, as a practical matter, and statistically speaking, those contacts are at a much lower risk than (say) the title company agent who sat across the table from us for half an hour at the closing for our house purchase/sale, if we turn out to be infected (or they do).
I'm not an expert, just my understanding, blah blah blah all standard disclaimers.8 -
In Memphis this morning, at 3 different stores, there was 1 other person wearing a mask... an employee at the last place. I thought Memphis required masks, but apparently it isn't getting enforced.6
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