Coronavirus prep
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »My large multinational corporation just said we are delaying our planned start of return to the office from 9/1 to no earlier than 10/1.
My large corporation told us not to expect anything earlier than January.
When I read things like this, I wonder how we can even think about sending 'our' children back to schools in good conscience. Am I the only one who feels that's incredibly hypocritical??
Grown-ups working from home is relatively easy for a lot of positions (depends on the job duties and technology), but children home for virtual learning is totally different. They will need supervision, assistance with technology, etc.. If the government wants to help working parents by job protection / some wage protection then I'm all for virtual learning, but right now that is not the case.2 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »
"mmm, Juicy Fruit..." My favorite from the movie with the possible exception of Nicholson broadcasting the ballgame on the TV that was turned off.1 -
One of my relatives has the 'Rona. Running 103 degree temps for over 10 days now. They traveled all over the country exposing all of the relatives as they tooled along before and after the 4th. Choosing to forgive is tough business. I flew over the cuckoo's nest before they arrived and went into hiding. There are no more words now.29
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@MikePfirrman The half has not been told.
Nurse Ratched sure knew how to keep things stirred UP. Barracuda. 1 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »
Wow, a hug! This feels x-rated.9 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »An area where I used to live has tripled their all-time cases now in the last 10 days. Even yet, some people still suggest nothing should close down again and schools should return as usual. I'm currently in a discussion with someone on social media (I don't know why I even try) with someone who tested positive recently and argues that gyms should stay open and they are safe because "healthy people kick covid." After I pointed out several cases of healthy marathon runners who became very ill or died due to Covid, the response was that distance runners are unhealthy. After she turned it into a sprinting vs. distance running debate, she explained that she sanitizes equipment as she is going to the gym so it isn't possible that she spread it to anyone while she was there (after testing positive, even though she really should just stay home, right?). Ugh... this is why the cases are increasing so fast.
Ummm, ugh. Reading this made me really happy to live in a country where appointed contagious disease doctors can order people to quarantine as an enforceable official ruling. I don’t know if anybody has tried to defy them, but from what I’ve understood you could be put under surveillance if you aren’t following the order at home.
On the upside for people put in official quarantine, there’s an extra form of social security you get paid during official quarantine if you can’t work from home. The amount matches what you would get paid as salary, so there’s no argument about income either.
State law already exists to require positivecases to stay home, but county sherriff has said he won't enforce it and county supervisors (governing county board) has said they won't do anything either. They say they want the county health dept. (underfunded and understaffed without any authority to regulate criminal law) to decide if they will do something and to actually do it. But with no authority...9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I was heartened when I ran to the store this a.m., needing a few things we're out of. A sign on their door read something to the affect that if you're not wearing a mask, you cannot enter the store. THAT made me happy. But then I go in and there are still 5 out of maybe 25 people NOT wearing a mask. WTH? Back up your signage and make them go home to get their mask or have disposables on hand to offer them! Otherwise, you lose all sense of credibility.
And why bother posting a sign at all??
My sister and I went to a book store yesterday that posted a sign on their door, 'Please wear a mask covering nose and mouth at all times'. My sister had a mask and we'd just entered but she forgot to pull it up. The worker came right over and politely asked her to cover her nose; my sister apologized and the lady was very polite.
What a difference in how store policies are being handled.
Given that there have been multiple reports of people being assaulted or even killed for trying to enforce mask policies, I don't at all blame store employees for not saying something. What do we expect them to do if someone says "no"? What do we expect them to do if the person hits them or brandishes a weapon or makes a false claim about the ADA exempting them? This is expecting too much of retail employees.
Yep if I'm working retail for $10-$15 and hour and not carrying I'm sure not going to argue if someone's not willing to wear a mask.9 -
I was heartened when I ran to the store this a.m., needing a few things we're out of. A sign on their door read something to the affect that if you're not wearing a mask, you cannot enter the store. THAT made me happy. But then I go in and there are still 5 out of maybe 25 people NOT wearing a mask. WTH? Back up your signage and make them go home to get their mask or have disposables on hand to offer them! Otherwise, you lose all sense of credibility. And why bother posting a sign at all??
My sister and I went to a book store yesterday that posted a sign on their door, 'Please wear a mask covering nose and mouth at all times'. My sister had a mask and we'd just entered but she forgot to pull it up. The worker came right over and politely asked her to cover her nose; my sister apologized and the lady was very polite.
What a difference in how store policies are being handled.
Others have mentioned the shooting/stabbing (which happened around here).
I suspect that in addition to differences in store policy or employee assertiveness, there may be differences in the nature of the average shopper in particular kinds of stores, that comes into play. Obviously, any kind of person may go anywhere, but there's a reason bars frequently have bouncers, and bookstores rarely do.
Grocery stores get everyone in them, though different chains may appeal to different sub-markets. Bookstores, though there's variation of course, may on average have a narrower range of probable habitues.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »My large multinational corporation just said we are delaying our planned start of return to the office from 9/1 to no earlier than 10/1.
My large corporation told us not to expect anything earlier than January.
When I read things like this, I wonder how we can even think about sending 'our' children back to schools in good conscience. Am I the only one who feels that's incredibly hypocritical??
Grown-ups working from home is relatively easy for a lot of positions (depends on the job duties and technology), but children home for virtual learning is totally different. They will need supervision, assistance with technology, etc.. If the government wants to help working parents by job protection / some wage protection then I'm all for virtual learning, but right now that is not the case.
While I agree with ReenieH's sentiment that there are lots of factors suggesting in person school is a bad idea in some areas, I do not necessarily think it's hypocritical for businesses to keep workers remote if they are able. There is a principle that people who can stay home doing so lowers the risk for those who cannot, making the community safer for everyone. This logic suggests that companies extending remote work makes it safer (maybe even makes it possible) to open school in person. While I'm constantly disheartened about how low a priority "common good" seems to be for individuals, companies & even policy makers in the US, there is a legitimate common good angle to keeping workers remote.
There is, of course, a self interested angle. The following are expensive: workers getting sick or dying, their dependents getting sick or dying, and even just the administrative shuffle of flip-flopping work protocols in different places at different times (and ensuing confusion). Schools opening and re-closing (which you know will happen in some places) is going to take a toll on worker productivity, too. Having a predictable plan for keeping workers working (even sub-optimally) is less costly than constant churn and chaos. This way if areas get slapped with successive shelter in place orders, companies are prepared with minimal impact. It's a decent business continuity plan.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »My large multinational corporation just said we are delaying our planned start of return to the office from 9/1 to no earlier than 10/1.
My large corporation told us not to expect anything earlier than January.
When I read things like this, I wonder how we can even think about sending 'our' children back to schools in good conscience. Am I the only one who feels that's incredibly hypocritical??
Grown-ups working from home is relatively easy for a lot of positions (depends on the job duties and technology), but children home for virtual learning is totally different. They will need supervision, assistance with technology, etc.. If the government wants to help working parents by job protection / some wage protection then I'm all for virtual learning, but right now that is not the case.
While I agree with ReenieH's sentiment that there are lots of factors suggesting in person school is a bad idea in some areas, I do not necessarily think it's hypocritical for businesses to keep workers remote if they are able. There is a principle that people who can stay home doing so lowers the risk for those who cannot, making the community safer for everyone. This logic suggests that companies extending remote work makes it safer (maybe even makes it possible) to open school in person. While I'm constantly disheartened about how low a priority "common good" seems to be for individuals, companies & even policy makers in the US, there is a legitimate common good angle to keeping workers remote.
There is, of course, a self interested angle. The following are expensive: workers getting sick or dying, their dependents getting sick or dying, and even just the administrative shuffle of flip-flopping work protocols in different places at different times (and ensuing confusion). Schools opening and re-closing (which you know will happen in some places) is going to take a toll on worker productivity, too. Having a predictable plan for keeping workers working (even sub-optimally) is less costly than constant churn and chaos. This way if areas get slapped with successive shelter in place orders, companies are prepared with minimal impact. It's a decent business continuity plan.
I'm not sure why my company doesn't let some of us keep WFH. I've proven most of my job can be done from home. Employees in the factory wouldn't be able to WFH, but I could get all my on-site stuff done in 1/2 day per week and stay home the rest of the time... why not?!
Anyway, we have some production shut down due to absenteeism from employees who got infected. I feel like sending office employees like me home could maybe help a little bit to prevent spread and with no down-side for the company. We proved we could WFH for a almost 3 months already. Now that production is running, I have some on-site work, but not enough to come in every day.8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »corinasue1143 wrote: »Is anyone else as tired of hearing “in these uncertain times”, “in these trying times”, etc. as I am. When was life ever certain? My life is more certain now than it ever has been. I am more in control of my own fate than I ever have been. Divorced, kids grown, parents and siblings deceased, retired. Things are written in stone more than ever before in my life. I am certain. Trying times? Let me tell you about trying times! No, you don’t really want to know. But trust me, these aren’t trying times. I’ve seen trying times, and I know some of you have, too.
Rant over. Deep breaths. It’s all good.
While I am quite sick of hearing these phrases that have become advertising buzzwords...
Many people are not as lucky as you are to have such certainty and control right now. My husband is out of work, I'm in danger of being furloughed, and unemployment benefits were just slashed. I have no idea when we'll be able to go back to work. My father is in cancer treatment, and I'm worried about everyone I know who is in a high-risk category.
So, yeah, I'm sorry, but for many/most people these are "trying times".
Well said. We just had one of the worst economic quarters in US history. Those people who haven't been impacted or don't know anyone impacted are in the MINORITY right now. My mom is facing risk every day in her hospital job. My brother has no idea when he'll be able to resume his career. Multiple industries are facing decimation. In my previously thriving neighborhood, businesses have been closing their doors for good and others are hustling just to stay afloat.
If these aren't trying times for someone, that's great! It's not like I WANT people to suffer. But for many people, this is a big deal even before we factor in the thousands and thousands of dead people.
Yes, it was the worst quarter since the US government started publishing data in 1947.
https://apple.news/A2wsUZfxYQ2KQYy4lFFeXVg (Washington Post)
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Also, more than 50% of US adults live in households that lost income in the pandemic.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/30/politics/lost-income-jobs-covid-congress/index.html5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »My large multinational corporation just said we are delaying our planned start of return to the office from 9/1 to no earlier than 10/1.
My large corporation told us not to expect anything earlier than January.
When I read things like this, I wonder how we can even think about sending 'our' children back to schools in good conscience. Am I the only one who feels that's incredibly hypocritical??
Grown-ups working from home is relatively easy for a lot of positions (depends on the job duties and technology), but children home for virtual learning is totally different. They will need supervision, assistance with technology, etc.. If the government wants to help working parents by job protection / some wage protection then I'm all for virtual learning, but right now that is not the case.
While I agree with ReenieH's sentiment that there are lots of factors suggesting in person school is a bad idea in some areas, I do not necessarily think it's hypocritical for businesses to keep workers remote if they are able. There is a principle that people who can stay home doing so lowers the risk for those who cannot, making the community safer for everyone. This logic suggests that companies extending remote work makes it safer (maybe even makes it possible) to open school in person. While I'm constantly disheartened about how low a priority "common good" seems to be for individuals, companies & even policy makers in the US, there is a legitimate common good angle to keeping workers remote.
There is, of course, a self interested angle. The following are expensive: workers getting sick or dying, their dependents getting sick or dying, and even just the administrative shuffle of flip-flopping work protocols in different places at different times (and ensuing confusion). Schools opening and re-closing (which you know will happen in some places) is going to take a toll on worker productivity, too. Having a predictable plan for keeping workers working (even sub-optimally) is less costly than constant churn and chaos. This way if areas get slapped with successive shelter in place orders, companies are prepared with minimal impact. It's a decent business continuity plan.
Yep. When I was working in a grocery store, the safety training was very clear about the rule that we were never allowed to go after shoplifters, we always had to call the police or security company instead. This was to avoid violence or accidents related to an uncontrolled/heated situation. The main reason stated for this was that one sick leave day costs about 400€ for the store chain, and it’s not physically possible for a shoplifter to carry that much value out of the store. This was in 2011/2012 so inflation has done it’s part to raise the cost, and most office jobs probably pay higher salaries than grocery stores -> higher costs from sick leaves.
In the company I work for, a single person can bring in about 1000€ revenue per day. There’s about 25 people in our company, and one person could easily infect half of those people if everyone was at the office and we were in a bad luck. So, with 12 people out sick, it would be 12k lost revenue per day, and covid can easily last for weeks. Not to mention the long-term consequences of bad will from customers due to missed deadlines or project staff changing unexpectedly, the non-infected staff getting probably overworked and exhausted due to trying to cover for everyone, leading to bad quality of work and/or burnouts, and the long-term financial consequences of not being able to invest in anything, including recruitment, or in worse cases having to cut costs and possibly even lay people off.
Yes, this spring was difficult for many of my colleagues, especially those who have small kids at home and had to juggle work that requires intensive focusing with taking care of kids, supervising their schooling, cooking lunch etc. Still, nobody in our company got infected, sick days were on average level, and everyone’s family is safe.
I’ve been on vacation for the past couple of weeks, but reading this just made me realize I have to decide and write our next installment of covid policy as the previous one is in effect until mid-August. Luckily it’s a small company and we’re able to move quickly, but I still wish I had a crystal ball that showed the future and if/when the second wave will hit our corner of the world. It’s a small company and I’m in no way a health&safety specialist, it just happens to fall within my overly wide job description. I still feel like I’m just making *kitten* up while trying to remain as clear and rational as possible while scrambling to keep everyone safe. Fun times making these kinds of decisions.9 -
I’ve been on vacation for the past couple of weeks, but reading this just made me realize I have to decide and write our next installment of covid policy as the previous one is in effect until mid-August. Luckily it’s a small company and we’re able to move quickly, but I still wish I had a crystal ball that showed the future and if/when the second wave will hit our corner of the world. It’s a small company and I’m in no way a health&safety specialist, it just happens to fall within my overly wide job description. I still feel like I’m just making *kitten* up while trying to remain as clear and rational as possible while scrambling to keep everyone safe. Fun times making these kinds of decisions.
No need to re-invent the wheel if you can network with someone in an administrative position at a similar business and find out how they're handling it. Or consult your local health authority for basic recommendations.
I'm in a mid-size government office. We're taking our cues from the health unit, who is following the lead of the provincial health ministry.4 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »One of my relatives has the 'Rona. Running 103 degree temps for over 10 days now. They traveled all over the country exposing all of the relatives as they tooled along before and after the 4th. Choosing to forgive is tough business. I flew over the cuckoo's nest before they arrived and went into hiding. There are no more words now.
From my point of view you did the right thing regardless of what happened, happens. I'm doing the same and I'm going to keep staying as far away from this little SarsCov2 germ that I can. I want to live.11 -
cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I've often wondered as I'm reading this thread how those who are isolated are doing. I see so many people saying we need to keep parents/grandparents safe and essentially totally isolated to keep them from getting Covid. In no way do I think we should deliberately spread it to those who are most vulnerable, but is it worth grandpa getting a longer life if that life is spent in isolation and him being unhappy due to not being able to spend time, hug or even see his family? There needs to be balance for all...I'm not sure what the answer is but the mental health effects on our most vulnerable are not being taken into consideration it seems like.
Plus e-learning just won't work for so many kids - whether it's because they do not have the resources at home to be able to utilize it, don't have the necessary supervision/involved parents to be successful or a multitude of other factors - we aren't doing most kids any favors by keeping them at home.
Very well said. This thing is dragging on so long, we really have to review our thinking now.0 -
Another thing to consider on the topic of "schools reopening or not" is students have feelings about this thing too. I have a 12 year old niece and she was telling me that she was so" glad and relieved" that our school board decided to do school online this nine weeks-(then reevaluate each nine weeks based on the data- bad numbers continue online etc). My niece was saying that she had been so "afraid" that she would have to go back to school now because she has really bad childhood asthma as well as a low immune system, also if she gets too hot or too excited she has nose bleeds etc.( and she was afraid because for three years in a row(despite getting the flu shot each year- she ALWAYS got the flu)- so she says she had been worried about CoVid 19- because she wanted " to live"-- I mean what do you say? except to try to encourage her and pray for the best-- I have heard that other children are afraid, uncertain, fearing actually going into the school building while they numbers are up in their state---- so kids may not be saying it but "some" of them are feeling these emotions as well we adults(sigh)15
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cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I've often wondered as I'm reading this thread how those who are isolated are doing. I see so many people saying we need to keep parents/grandparents safe and essentially totally isolated to keep them from getting Covid. In no way do I think we should deliberately spread it to those who are most vulnerable, but is it worth grandpa getting a longer life if that life is spent in isolation and him being unhappy due to not being able to spend time, hug or even see his family? There needs to be balance for all...I'm not sure what the answer is but the mental health effects on our most vulnerable are not being taken into consideration it seems like.
Plus e-learning just won't work for so many kids - whether it's because they do not have the resources at home to be able to utilize it, don't have the necessary supervision/involved parents to be successful or a multitude of other factors - we aren't doing most kids any favors by keeping them at home.
Very well said. This thing is dragging on so long, we really have to review our thinking now.
I can only speak for myself, not the words of all grandparents: I would rather live isolated than die from hugging my relatives. I'm not, unfortunately, one of the priviledged, so I can't speak for them either, my words only: I would rather be poor, only have two chairs, no tv, no couch, no curtains, not own my own home, and continue to live in a noisy apartment with rude neighbors, unable to get fresh fruit, ( I could fo on and on ) rather than die by the Covid19 disease. Please stop the 'old people should just get on with dying 'cause their life quality ain't really worth much' talk. It won't help many of us just back down and wimp away towards death, rather it seems to instill more grit. How can you say such things? Everyone's life is worth living for them, even if you can't see it.
As far as the kids getting back to school? I doubt it is so important as all that. So what if every student is set back one year? That is worst case scenario. Most people spend more than necessary, most could tighten up their budgets and one parent stay home to home school or be on hand to monitor the on-line classes. Why wouldn't they want to do that? It would give stronger bonds between parents and children. There is still much hope for vaccines. Its not going too be like this forever.
I wish that most everyone were not so quickly running out to meet death.22 -
The problem with allowing individual employees to decide whether their symptoms should “count” towards passing or failing the checklist is that a lot of supposedly asymptomatic transmission turns out, in retrospect, to be presymptomatic - “I just had a runny nose and thought it was my usual allergies but then I got a fever on the third day” - or what they call paucisymptomatic, which means there were symptoms but they never got serious enough for the individual to realize they were sick until afterwards, when they realize they “felt a little off for a couple of weeks.”autumnblade75 wrote: »autumnblade75 wrote: »I am not prepared, now, for the new work guidelines.
As of today, we are required to do a Prework Health Check. Well, I woke up with a headache, so the system told me to stay home and I can't come back until I'm cleared by my health care provider. So I called Teladoc. Who are not authorized (nobody is) to clear me for Covid. Over a headache. No fever, no cough, no nothing, but a headache.
Of course, calling the Teladoc managed to trigger an anxiety attack. So that was lovely.
I'm not sure how to resolve this.
I'm locked out of performing the next Prework Health Check until I contact a manager. I have no idea who is actually a manager, vs a supervisor, and I definitely don't have any contact information. I texted my supervisor, but like he already told me, all he got was the same flyer they handed me at the door.
I guess I just walk in with the Teladoc diagnosis of "headache" printed out as proof that I sought care, and hope for the best. Super system we got here, keeping everyone safe. I half hope they fire me. Maybe I should try harder.
This kind of system encourages people to lie. It's like at my husband's work. The first day they implemented screening like this, he was asked, "have you come in contact with a covid positive person?" He answered, "I don't know. I don't think so. How would I know that?" The employee screening him sent him home and told him he was supposed to say "no" definitively. Sent the next guy home because of his allergies. Asked if he had a cough. The guy said he just had the usual allergy cough he had every morning of his life. Nothing new or any other symptoms. He got sent home. Half the staff was sent home that first day. Managers had to call everybody back in and "coach" them how to respond to the screening questions. Everybody basically learned to lie after that. The coworker with the frequent migraines straight up lies to the screener's face multiple times per week. If this becomes a habit, actual sick people might start lying. Maybe they need more than just strict yes/no questions as your ticket into work.
Right now, I'm waiting out the clock. I have followed the next steps, as outlined by the app. My manager is now required to reset the app so I can pre-screen for work. I am allowed/required to do this "no later than one hour before scheduled start time" which is 2:40am today. The app is not yet reset, and I don't expect them to reset it. I have already started looking for a new job. This is a stupid game that brings me no joy, and I don't know why I'm playing it.
Not to mention people like my mom who will bust out with a rattling chest cough in the middle of December and claim it’s hay fever. Dude. There is nothing blooming now. That’s bronchitis! People are amazing in their ability to insist they couldn’t possibly be contagious, in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Like the person mentioned above who is still going to the gym with a positive test.10 -
cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I've often wondered as I'm reading this thread how those who are isolated are doing. I see so many people saying we need to keep parents/grandparents safe and essentially totally isolated to keep them from getting Covid. In no way do I think we should deliberately spread it to those who are most vulnerable, but is it worth grandpa getting a longer life if that life is spent in isolation and him being unhappy due to not being able to spend time, hug or even see his family? There needs to be balance for all...I'm not sure what the answer is but the mental health effects on our most vulnerable are not being taken into consideration it seems like.
Plus e-learning just won't work for so many kids - whether it's because they do not have the resources at home to be able to utilize it, don't have the necessary supervision/involved parents to be successful or a multitude of other factors - we aren't doing most kids any favors by keeping them at home.
Very well said. This thing is dragging on so long, we really have to review our thinking now.
I can only speak for myself, not the words of all grandparents: I would rather live isolated than die from hugging my relatives. I'm not, unfortunately, one of the priviledged, so I can't speak for them either, my words only: I would rather be poor, only have two chairs, no tv, no couch, no curtains, not own my own home, and continue to live in a noisy apartment with rude neighbors, unable to get fresh fruit, ( I could fo on and on ) rather than die by the Covid19 disease. Please stop the 'old people should just get on with dying 'cause their life quality ain't really worth much' talk. It won't help many of us just back down and wimp away towards death, rather it seems to instill more grit. How can you say such things? Everyone's life is worth living for them, even if you can't see it.
As far as the kids getting back to school? I doubt it is so important as all that. So what if every student is set back one year? That is worst case scenario. Most people spend more than necessary, most could tighten up their budgets and one parent stay home to home school or be on hand to monitor the on-line classes. Why wouldn't they want to do that? It would give stronger bonds between parents and children. There is still much hope for vaccines. Its not going too be like this forever.
I wish that most everyone were not so quickly running out to meet death.
I am a mother and a grandmother. I haven't seen my kids, my daughters in law, and my grandchildren since the end of December. Everybody has a job, grandchildren have been taking classes on line, and everybody is healthy so far, including my husband and I. And that is fine with me, and I want to keep it that way!
My husband and I decided to stay physically distant/isolated as much as possible until there is a vaccine or this virus goes away. By doing this we are protecting our family from infection, and from heartbreak and additional stress. Our hospitalizations or dying will not be good for anybody, and we are not in a hurry to kick the bucket. We still have a lot to offer to our family and the world.
And please stop with the "privileged" quotation because it is insulting, at least for me.
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rheddmobile wrote: »
The problem with allowing individual employees to decide whether their symptoms should “count” towards passing or failing the checklist is that a lot of supposedly asymptomatic transmission turns out, in retrospect, to be presymptomatic - “I just had a runny nose and thought it was my usual allergies but then I got a fever on the third day” - or what they call paucisymptomatic, which means there were symptoms but they never got serious enough for the individual to realize they were sick until afterwards, when they realize they “felt a little off for a couple of weeks.”autumnblade75 wrote: »autumnblade75 wrote: »I am not prepared, now, for the new work guidelines.
As of today, we are required to do a Prework Health Check. Well, I woke up with a headache, so the system told me to stay home and I can't come back until I'm cleared by my health care provider. So I called Teladoc. Who are not authorized (nobody is) to clear me for Covid. Over a headache. No fever, no cough, no nothing, but a headache.
Of course, calling the Teladoc managed to trigger an anxiety attack. So that was lovely.
I'm not sure how to resolve this.
I'm locked out of performing the next Prework Health Check until I contact a manager. I have no idea who is actually a manager, vs a supervisor, and I definitely don't have any contact information. I texted my supervisor, but like he already told me, all he got was the same flyer they handed me at the door.
I guess I just walk in with the Teladoc diagnosis of "headache" printed out as proof that I sought care, and hope for the best. Super system we got here, keeping everyone safe. I half hope they fire me. Maybe I should try harder.
This kind of system encourages people to lie. It's like at my husband's work. The first day they implemented screening like this, he was asked, "have you come in contact with a covid positive person?" He answered, "I don't know. I don't think so. How would I know that?" The employee screening him sent him home and told him he was supposed to say "no" definitively. Sent the next guy home because of his allergies. Asked if he had a cough. The guy said he just had the usual allergy cough he had every morning of his life. Nothing new or any other symptoms. He got sent home. Half the staff was sent home that first day. Managers had to call everybody back in and "coach" them how to respond to the screening questions. Everybody basically learned to lie after that. The coworker with the frequent migraines straight up lies to the screener's face multiple times per week. If this becomes a habit, actual sick people might start lying. Maybe they need more than just strict yes/no questions as your ticket into work.
Right now, I'm waiting out the clock. I have followed the next steps, as outlined by the app. My manager is now required to reset the app so I can pre-screen for work. I am allowed/required to do this "no later than one hour before scheduled start time" which is 2:40am today. The app is not yet reset, and I don't expect them to reset it. I have already started looking for a new job. This is a stupid game that brings me no joy, and I don't know why I'm playing it.
Not to mention people like my mom who will bust out with a rattling chest cough in the middle of December and claim it’s hay fever. Dude. There is nothing blooming now. That’s bronchitis! People are amazing in their ability to insist they couldn’t possibly be contagious, in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Like the person mentioned above who is still going to the gym with a positive test.
This is 100% true, but it's tough to measure for everything and pauci-symptomatic people are going to lie because they think it shouldn't count against them.5 -
We have a sad case locally. An active couple living in an assisted living environment who just celebrated their 65th wedding anniversary tested positive. The wife had a shot of recovering but her choice was to be with him to the end at their daughter's home. A hospice nurse as been assigned to the couple.13
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corinasue1143 wrote: »Oklahoma City just passed a mask mandate with many exceptions. Penalty for non-compliance = $9 fine.
Not much of a penalty, but I guess its higher than the cost of a mask.2 -
I was heartened when I ran to the store this a.m., needing a few things we're out of. A sign on their door read something to the affect that if you're not wearing a mask, you cannot enter the store. THAT made me happy. But then I go in and there are still 5 out of maybe 25 people NOT wearing a mask. WTH? Back up your signage and make them go home to get their mask or have disposables on hand to offer them! Otherwise, you lose all sense of credibility. And why bother posting a sign at all??
My sister and I went to a book store yesterday that posted a sign on their door, 'Please wear a mask covering nose and mouth at all times'. My sister had a mask and we'd just entered but she forgot to pull it up. The worker came right over and politely asked her to cover her nose; my sister apologized and the lady was very polite.
What a difference in how store policies are being handled.
Others have mentioned the shooting/stabbing (which happened around here).
I suspect that in addition to differences in store policy or employee assertiveness, there may be differences in the nature of the average shopper in particular kinds of stores, that comes into play. Obviously, any kind of person may go anywhere, but there's a reason bars frequently have bouncers, and bookstores rarely do.
Grocery stores get everyone in them, though different chains may appeal to different sub-markets. Bookstores, though there's variation of course, may on average have a narrower range of probable habitues.
What differences?? If it's the policy, just enforce it. I know I CANNOT go inside anywhere without one, so I keep one in my pocket. On approaching the door, out comes my mask, and then i can enter. No fuss, no argument.0 -
I was heartened when I ran to the store this a.m., needing a few things we're out of. A sign on their door read something to the affect that if you're not wearing a mask, you cannot enter the store. THAT made me happy. But then I go in and there are still 5 out of maybe 25 people NOT wearing a mask. WTH? Back up your signage and make them go home to get their mask or have disposables on hand to offer them! Otherwise, you lose all sense of credibility. And why bother posting a sign at all??
My sister and I went to a book store yesterday that posted a sign on their door, 'Please wear a mask covering nose and mouth at all times'. My sister had a mask and we'd just entered but she forgot to pull it up. The worker came right over and politely asked her to cover her nose; my sister apologized and the lady was very polite.
What a difference in how store policies are being handled.
Others have mentioned the shooting/stabbing (which happened around here).
I suspect that in addition to differences in store policy or employee assertiveness, there may be differences in the nature of the average shopper in particular kinds of stores, that comes into play. Obviously, any kind of person may go anywhere, but there's a reason bars frequently have bouncers, and bookstores rarely do.
Grocery stores get everyone in them, though different chains may appeal to different sub-markets. Bookstores, though there's variation of course, may on average have a narrower range of probable habitues.
What differences?? If it's the policy, just enforce it. I know I CANNOT go inside anywhere without one, so I keep one in my pocket. On approaching the door, out comes my mask, and then i can enter. No fuss, no argument.
Not everyone is Ok to do what they are asked as you are and I am the same. I'd do it no problem. How can every place there enforce this? I'm not from USA and don't have what is happening there Covid wise as much but is there even enough guards they can hire to do this? How do you think this can be done?4 -
I was heartened when I ran to the store this a.m., needing a few things we're out of. A sign on their door read something to the affect that if you're not wearing a mask, you cannot enter the store. THAT made me happy. But then I go in and there are still 5 out of maybe 25 people NOT wearing a mask. WTH? Back up your signage and make them go home to get their mask or have disposables on hand to offer them! Otherwise, you lose all sense of credibility. And why bother posting a sign at all??
My sister and I went to a book store yesterday that posted a sign on their door, 'Please wear a mask covering nose and mouth at all times'. My sister had a mask and we'd just entered but she forgot to pull it up. The worker came right over and politely asked her to cover her nose; my sister apologized and the lady was very polite.
What a difference in how store policies are being handled.
Others have mentioned the shooting/stabbing (which happened around here).
I suspect that in addition to differences in store policy or employee assertiveness, there may be differences in the nature of the average shopper in particular kinds of stores, that comes into play. Obviously, any kind of person may go anywhere, but there's a reason bars frequently have bouncers, and bookstores rarely do.
Grocery stores get everyone in them, though different chains may appeal to different sub-markets. Bookstores, though there's variation of course, may on average have a narrower range of probable habitues.
What differences?? If it's the policy, just enforce it. I know I CANNOT go inside anywhere without one, so I keep one in my pocket. On approaching the door, out comes my mask, and then i can enter. No fuss, no argument.
Not everyone is Ok to do what they are asked as you are and I am the same. I'd do it no problem. How can every place there enforce this? I'm not from USA and don't have what is happening there Covid wise as much but is there even enough guards they can hire to do this? How do you think this can be done?
It can not be done in a free society but it is something to chat about when bored.5 -
I was heartened when I ran to the store this a.m., needing a few things we're out of. A sign on their door read something to the affect that if you're not wearing a mask, you cannot enter the store. THAT made me happy. But then I go in and there are still 5 out of maybe 25 people NOT wearing a mask. WTH? Back up your signage and make them go home to get their mask or have disposables on hand to offer them! Otherwise, you lose all sense of credibility. And why bother posting a sign at all??
My sister and I went to a book store yesterday that posted a sign on their door, 'Please wear a mask covering nose and mouth at all times'. My sister had a mask and we'd just entered but she forgot to pull it up. The worker came right over and politely asked her to cover her nose; my sister apologized and the lady was very polite.
What a difference in how store policies are being handled.
Others have mentioned the shooting/stabbing (which happened around here).
I suspect that in addition to differences in store policy or employee assertiveness, there may be differences in the nature of the average shopper in particular kinds of stores, that comes into play. Obviously, any kind of person may go anywhere, but there's a reason bars frequently have bouncers, and bookstores rarely do.
Grocery stores get everyone in them, though different chains may appeal to different sub-markets. Bookstores, though there's variation of course, may on average have a narrower range of probable habitues.
What differences?? If it's the policy, just enforce it. I know I CANNOT go inside anywhere without one, so I keep one in my pocket. On approaching the door, out comes my mask, and then i can enter. No fuss, no argument.
For clarity about what I meant by 'store policy', without my necessarily believing it's the answer to what you're asking;
I suspect (don't know for sure) some stores require employees to be more assertive in confronting customers, and other stores less so. Require = on penalty of firing, so loss of income - food, clothing, shelter for self and loved ones. Hard to find another job now, here.
Repeating myself: Locally, people have been shot, stabbed. DIfferent stores (I suspect) are more or less firm with employees about enforcing what are here (not everywhere) state *mandates*. Many people need their jobs. Every person needs their life.
This is hard stuff.
I salute you for doing what's needful. Not everyone will.5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I was heartened when I ran to the store this a.m., needing a few things we're out of. A sign on their door read something to the affect that if you're not wearing a mask, you cannot enter the store. THAT made me happy. But then I go in and there are still 5 out of maybe 25 people NOT wearing a mask. WTH? Back up your signage and make them go home to get their mask or have disposables on hand to offer them! Otherwise, you lose all sense of credibility. And why bother posting a sign at all??
My sister and I went to a book store yesterday that posted a sign on their door, 'Please wear a mask covering nose and mouth at all times'. My sister had a mask and we'd just entered but she forgot to pull it up. The worker came right over and politely asked her to cover her nose; my sister apologized and the lady was very polite.
What a difference in how store policies are being handled.
Others have mentioned the shooting/stabbing (which happened around here).
I suspect that in addition to differences in store policy or employee assertiveness, there may be differences in the nature of the average shopper in particular kinds of stores, that comes into play. Obviously, any kind of person may go anywhere, but there's a reason bars frequently have bouncers, and bookstores rarely do.
Grocery stores get everyone in them, though different chains may appeal to different sub-markets. Bookstores, though there's variation of course, may on average have a narrower range of probable habitues.
What differences?? If it's the policy, just enforce it. I know I CANNOT go inside anywhere without one, so I keep one in my pocket. On approaching the door, out comes my mask, and then i can enter. No fuss, no argument.
Not everyone is Ok to do what they are asked as you are and I am the same. I'd do it no problem. How can every place there enforce this? I'm not from USA and don't have what is happening there Covid wise as much but is there even enough guards they can hire to do this? How do you think this can be done?
It can not be done in a free society but it is something to chat about when bored.
Yeah everyone should just do whatever the heck they like. Good idea.. not. Proof is in the pudding now.
I will add I also don't think being in a dictatorship or similar is fine of course but I don't know... why can't people use their brains and do the right thing in the first place? People need to care about each other and there should be no need to be told what to do but that is not the case 6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I was heartened when I ran to the store this a.m., needing a few things we're out of. A sign on their door read something to the affect that if you're not wearing a mask, you cannot enter the store. THAT made me happy. But then I go in and there are still 5 out of maybe 25 people NOT wearing a mask. WTH? Back up your signage and make them go home to get their mask or have disposables on hand to offer them! Otherwise, you lose all sense of credibility. And why bother posting a sign at all??
My sister and I went to a book store yesterday that posted a sign on their door, 'Please wear a mask covering nose and mouth at all times'. My sister had a mask and we'd just entered but she forgot to pull it up. The worker came right over and politely asked her to cover her nose; my sister apologized and the lady was very polite.
What a difference in how store policies are being handled.
Others have mentioned the shooting/stabbing (which happened around here).
I suspect that in addition to differences in store policy or employee assertiveness, there may be differences in the nature of the average shopper in particular kinds of stores, that comes into play. Obviously, any kind of person may go anywhere, but there's a reason bars frequently have bouncers, and bookstores rarely do.
Grocery stores get everyone in them, though different chains may appeal to different sub-markets. Bookstores, though there's variation of course, may on average have a narrower range of probable habitues.
What differences?? If it's the policy, just enforce it. I know I CANNOT go inside anywhere without one, so I keep one in my pocket. On approaching the door, out comes my mask, and then i can enter. No fuss, no argument.
Not everyone is Ok to do what they are asked as you are and I am the same. I'd do it no problem. How can every place there enforce this? I'm not from USA and don't have what is happening there Covid wise as much but is there even enough guards they can hire to do this? How do you think this can be done?
It can not be done in a free society but it is something to chat about when bored.
Yeah everyone should just do whatever the heck they like. Good idea.. not. Proof is in the pudding now.
I will add I also don't think being in a dictatorship or similar is fine of course but I don't know... why can't people use their brains and do the right thing in the first place? People need to care about each other and there should be no need to be told what to do but that is not the case
Realizing we are in the middle of a mental health crises may help with your question "why can't people use their brains and do the right thing in the first place.8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I was heartened when I ran to the store this a.m., needing a few things we're out of. A sign on their door read something to the affect that if you're not wearing a mask, you cannot enter the store. THAT made me happy. But then I go in and there are still 5 out of maybe 25 people NOT wearing a mask. WTH? Back up your signage and make them go home to get their mask or have disposables on hand to offer them! Otherwise, you lose all sense of credibility. And why bother posting a sign at all??
My sister and I went to a book store yesterday that posted a sign on their door, 'Please wear a mask covering nose and mouth at all times'. My sister had a mask and we'd just entered but she forgot to pull it up. The worker came right over and politely asked her to cover her nose; my sister apologized and the lady was very polite.
What a difference in how store policies are being handled.
Others have mentioned the shooting/stabbing (which happened around here).
I suspect that in addition to differences in store policy or employee assertiveness, there may be differences in the nature of the average shopper in particular kinds of stores, that comes into play. Obviously, any kind of person may go anywhere, but there's a reason bars frequently have bouncers, and bookstores rarely do.
Grocery stores get everyone in them, though different chains may appeal to different sub-markets. Bookstores, though there's variation of course, may on average have a narrower range of probable habitues.
What differences?? If it's the policy, just enforce it. I know I CANNOT go inside anywhere without one, so I keep one in my pocket. On approaching the door, out comes my mask, and then i can enter. No fuss, no argument.
Not everyone is Ok to do what they are asked as you are and I am the same. I'd do it no problem. How can every place there enforce this? I'm not from USA and don't have what is happening there Covid wise as much but is there even enough guards they can hire to do this? How do you think this can be done?
It can not be done in a free society but it is something to chat about when bored.
Yeah everyone should just do whatever the heck they like. Good idea.. not. Proof is in the pudding now.
I will add I also don't think being in a dictatorship or similar is fine of course but I don't know... why can't people use their brains and do the right thing in the first place? People need to care about each other and there should be no need to be told what to do but that is not the case
Realizing we are in the middle of a mental health crises may help with your question "why can't people use their brains and do the right thing in the first place.
Hmm.. that is true Gale. It isn't just a physical health crises but mental health too. Thanks for making me remember that. I was dealing with this not so well at the beginning but now things have been fine for a while forgotten that side to it for us here but of course watching and caring for others still around the world. This is all just up the creek. I hope we wake up tomorrow and it's just a bad dream but of course it's not. Everyone take care. I voted for closing the border to where all my family lives so yeah it's not easy for me. My parents are very old and might never see them again. So sad.10 -
I was heartened when I ran to the store this a.m., needing a few things we're out of. A sign on their door read something to the affect that if you're not wearing a mask, you cannot enter the store. THAT made me happy. But then I go in and there are still 5 out of maybe 25 people NOT wearing a mask. WTH? Back up your signage and make them go home to get their mask or have disposables on hand to offer them! Otherwise, you lose all sense of credibility. And why bother posting a sign at all??
My sister and I went to a book store yesterday that posted a sign on their door, 'Please wear a mask covering nose and mouth at all times'. My sister had a mask and we'd just entered but she forgot to pull it up. The worker came right over and politely asked her to cover her nose; my sister apologized and the lady was very polite.
What a difference in how store policies are being handled.
I don't know where you are located, but given that in the U.S. retail employees that have tried to enforce masking policies have been screamed at by in-your-face spittle-spewing maskless individuals, physically assaulted, and even shot and killed, I don't think it's fair to ask people who are already at greater-than-average exposure from their jobs -- probably for lower-than-average wages -- to take on the added risk of masking enforcement.
I don't know what the right answer is to enforcing masking requirements, but it doesn't seem fair to ask the retail workers to take on that burden.10
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