Coronavirus prep
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rheddmobile wrote: »smithker75 wrote: »
Our (Australian) Prime Minister has just announced the 3 stage process for return to business which is expected to be complete by July. States and Territories have the authority to roll out these stages independently.
My organisation has already decided to maintain working from home for at least a few months yet as it is working quite well for us (I'm in QLD).
I don’t see houses of worship on the plan - is that not as controversial a thing there as it is in the States? How is it being handled?
No it hasnt really been controversial here - has been accepted as neccesary like closing of any other mass gatherings
What has been controversial about it in US?
It is up to each state to interpret and implement the guidelines within their own state - here in SA, attendance at worship places has been banned (as in every other state) but priests/ministers etc were allowed to preach to nobody and livestream their services.
as of May 11th people can attend worship services at churches,mosques etc with no more than 10 people attending at any one time (excluding persons conducting the service) and social distancing and density rules still apply.
Conducters of services to keep record of attendees for potential contact tracing purposes.
This record of attendees rule also applies to other official non religious gatherings - eg civil weddings,(10 guests maximum) funerals (20 guests maximum indoors, 30 outdoors) people going to libraries, house auctions, outdoor dining etc .
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »I want to know why the meat workers are so able to get sick from this. Can't they make them work further apart? No one should be doing ANYTHING near anyone else. Full stop. Don't you realise this kills?
Not the way the plants have traditionally been run, and I guess nobody has been innovative enough to find a way to change things without reducing profits.
It's not that simple.
Given your comments I'm pretty sure you have never been in any sort of manufacturing or processing facility. Facilities are sent up for maximum efficiency so prices are lower to the consumer and the companies make a reasonable profit/return on investment.
Maximum efficiency in manufacturing/processing involves minimizing non-value added movement. Extra unneeded space between workers, their supplies, parts, etc. is waste and extra cost. Completely retrofitting a production line often involves shutting down production for weeks or months to over a year as well as considerable $. Plus if you add waste to the process, that cost will be passed on to consumers for years.
Can a few stopgap measures be done, probably but not going to have wholesale changes.14 -
paperpudding wrote: »No it hasnt really been controversial here - has been accepted as neccesary like closing of any other mass gatherings
What has been controversial about it in US?
Nothing from my POV, since the Archdiocese of Chicago (and I think Catholic dioceses in general) have been compliant. In Chicago, Catholic masses were shut down voluntarily and went to streaming only a week or so before the state shut down, even. I think the same is true with mainline Protestant denominations in general. But there are some megachurches and other sects that are wanting to resume in person services and some have actually not been compliant (including in my state). Where I am that seems like a non issue (probably similar to AU), but probably some places (esp in the South) they make up a bigger percentage of where people worship, and are playing on this to try to make a state is imposing on churches narrative.
That is not a narrative I hear at all locally, so I think again there really is a huge difference depending on where one is, if it is seen to be a big impetus to open fast other places. I think the Archdiocese here is not going to rush us back to in person services even if the state/city unwisely tried to completely open quickly. (And we are a hot spot anyway, so that's not happening.)5 -
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snowflake954 wrote: »Italy here. For those of you interested in a Corona vaccine, we've got a tentative timeline. As I've mentioned before, Italy got the virus isolated in a lab early because of two Chinese tourists that came down with the virus in Rome. The virus was isolated and a vaccine is in the works in an important lab outside Rome. This lab is very reputable--they worked on an Ebola vaccine. They are working with a lab in Oxford, it's a co-project. This morning the director of our lab was interviewed. Bear with me, I'm in art, and no scientist. He said that they are already testing on 110 volunteers. This testing will finish at the end of May. Then testing will begin on 3000 people. This is to study any adverse reactions and how well the vaccine performs. This stage will finish in September. If all goes well then the vaccine will go into production. When will it be ready? This is the big question, of course. He said that obviously it will take time to produce enough for everyone that needs it. It will be ready by the end of the year. He said the first to be vaccinated will be health workers and law enforcement. The next up will be the most vunerable. He expects that producing a vaccine will be a worldwide effort.
@snowflake954 this? https://www.irbm.com/news/the-jenner-institute-signs-an-agreement-with-advent-to-develop-a-novel-coronavirus-vaccine/1 -
snowflake954 wrote: »Italy here. For those of you interested in a Corona vaccine, we've got a tentative timeline. As I've mentioned before, Italy got the virus isolated in a lab early because of two Chinese tourists that came down with the virus in Rome. The virus was isolated and a vaccine is in the works in an important lab outside Rome. This lab is very reputable--they worked on an Ebola vaccine. They are working with a lab in Oxford, it's a co-project. This morning the director of our lab was interviewed. Bear with me, I'm in art, and no scientist. He said that they are already testing on 110 volunteers. This testing will finish at the end of May. Then testing will begin on 3000 people. This is to study any adverse reactions and how well the vaccine performs. This stage will finish in September. If all goes well then the vaccine will go into production. When will it be ready? This is the big question, of course. He said that obviously it will take time to produce enough for everyone that needs it. It will be ready by the end of the year. He said the first to be vaccinated will be health workers and law enforcement. The next up will be the most vunerable. He expects that producing a vaccine will be a worldwide effort.
@snowflake954 this? https://www.irbm.com/news/the-jenner-institute-signs-an-agreement-with-advent-to-develop-a-novel-coronavirus-vaccine/
Yes, this is it.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I want to know why the meat workers are so able to get sick from this. Can't they make them work further apart? No one should be doing ANYTHING near anyone else. Full stop. Don't you realise this kills?
Not the way the plants have traditionally been run, and I guess nobody has been innovative enough to find a way to change things without reducing profits.
OMG.. profits right now? Ok.. not saying a word. Jesus..........profits? Lives? What about lives? This is nuts. I am glad I don't live there then. Money is nothing if you are dead.
Actually, meat processing plants as well as any other manufacturing facility are set up for maximum efficiency. This allows to provide a cheaper product to the consumer while simultaneously making a reasonable profit. Profit margins in the meat industry are pretty narrow...most meat companies have profit margins of less than 1%, with most being somewhere in the neighborhood of .05%.
Retooling production lines isn't as easy as flipping a switch...it is something that typically takes months to do. Also, retooling meat processing will make things less efficient and thus more costly...those costs are passed along to the consumer.
In regards to profits and "money is nothing if you are dead"...we're talking corporate profits here which as I stated above are pretty narrow. The corporation won't die from coronavirus, but will die from lack of profits. Companies have to make profits or they cease to exist. In the case of meat production, this would mean a substantial disruption to the food supply chain and shortages. It's a balancing act, and there is no perfect solution here. It's not nearly as nefarious as "profits over lives."20 -
You Australia folks seem to have done a good job. It can be hard to watch other countries manage so much better, from the perspective of someone in the U.S. with 4 vulnerable family members and 2 in high-risk occupations. I'm still amazed my sister on the Navajo reservation is well, as is her daughter. Sis has an autoimmune disease but is an essential employee and will work side-by-side (well, with 6' of separation) with her Navajo colleagues, many of whom have family who are ill and/or high risk. And our mom in FL is almost 91 and feels well and is happy--she isn't ready to die, and we want her to enjoy her life as much as she can. I'm more worried about her now b/c everyone in FL "seems" to be "oh, we will all be fine. Back to business as usual."
Dane County in WI has extended the emergency order to July 15, mostly to make sure the county continues to qualify for federal and state dollars for aid. Traffic has picked up recently, though, so I'm guessing people are loosening their own rules--whatever they might have been--already. I think state employees are continuing to work from home as much as possible without any expectation of returning anytime soon. Students are absent so even "increased" traffic is relatively minimal compared to usual.5 -
paperpudding wrote: »No it hasnt really been controversial here - has been accepted as neccesary like closing of any other mass gatherings
What has been controversial about it in US?
Nothing from my POV, since the Archdiocese of Chicago (and I think Catholic dioceses in general) have been compliant. In Chicago, Catholic masses were shut down voluntarily and went to streaming only a week or so before the state shut down, even. I think the same is true with mainline Protestant denominations in general. But there are some megachurches and other sects that are wanting to resume in person services and some have actually not been compliant (including in my state). Where I am that seems like a non issue (probably similar to AU), but probably some places (esp in the South) they make up a bigger percentage of where people worship, and are playing on this to try to make a state is imposing on churches narrative.
That is not a narrative I hear at all locally, so I think again there really is a huge difference depending on where one is, if it is seen to be a big impetus to open fast other places. I think the Archdiocese here is not going to rush us back to in person services even if the state/city unwisely tried to completely open quickly. (And we are a hot spot anyway, so that's not happening.)
Since the original question came from Australia, so I don't know how much context the questioner has, I'd put a little finer point on that, personally, without trying to pick sides or engage in political debate.
First, we have a treasured component of the US constitution (First Amendment within the Bill of Rights) that begins "Congress shall make no law repecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . .".
That's generally taken (it's complicated) as limiting government from controlling what religious organizations do. There are legal cases frequently about exactly how this applies when - for example - all organizations with certain characteristics (which sometimes based solely on nonreligious characteristics would include religious organizations) are regulated in some way. It's really fraught and rather complex.
Second, there is some correlation of certain religious groups (especially when you take it down to the independent church level) with very strong "small government" views - the idea that government shouldn't interfere with personal choices, loosely speaking. (Sometimes there are some . . . discrepancies? . . . in how some of these organizations might like government to limit other people doing things they don't like, from a traditional standpoint, often around sexuality, reproductive issues, and marriage, but possibly beyond.) Tendencies in strong partisan political views add fuel to that fire, in some cases.
So, the government forbids large gatherings, there's debate about whether they can legitimately forbid church gatherings, and that that fuels controversy. (It appears to me, without having researched it, that in at least some states the government can't order churches not to hold services - perhaps this is more generally true, I'm not an attorney, I don't know. I do know that in some cases the governors have asked rather than ordered churches to stop holding services).
Lemur is correct: Most large mainstream religious organizations, across the sectarian spectrum, have been completely on board with stopping in person services, and in some cases did so before orders required any types of groups to limit gatherings in the way the churches did voluntarily.
It only takes a small number of noisy, angry people to create a controversy.7 -
I just wanted to be clear, too, that when someone in the US (TN, I think) is surprised that churches opening and having in-person services isn't a big deal in AU, and says that it is one of the biggest deals here, it should be clear that's not true throughout the US. Because for most of us in many places the churches (or vast majority of them) aren't demanding that in-person services should be held and voluntarily chose to stop them for safety reasons -- probably similar to what happened in AU. When Trump was talking about opening churches for Easter, the Archdiocese here had already canceled Easter mass (and again same with all the mainline Protestant churches I know, although many of them aren't as centralized). So the idea that it's a huge issue with churches demanding to open is regional or local (or somewhat sectarian and politicized), IMO.
Across the world, church services and other religious gatherings have been the source of a number of super-spreading events, unfortunately, and I think responsible churches are well aware of and concerned about that.8 -
I just wanted to be clear, too, that when someone in the US (TN, I think) is surprised that churches opening and having in-person services isn't a big deal in AU, and says that it is one of the biggest deals here, it should be clear that's not true throughout the US. Because for most of us in many places the churches (or vast majority of them) aren't demanding that in-person services should be held and voluntarily chose to stop them for safety reasons -- probably similar to what happened in AU. When Trump was talking about opening churches for Easter, the Archdiocese here had already canceled Easter mass (and again same with all the mainline Protestant churches I know, although many of them aren't as centralized). So the idea that it's a huge issue with churches demanding to open is regional or local (or somewhat sectarian and politicized), IMO.
Across the world, church services and other religious gatherings have been the source of a number of super-spreading events, unfortunately, and I think responsible churches are well aware of and concerned about that.
Also true here in Michigan - very little controversy . . . this, even though sometimes I feel like the news from here is making us sound like the U.S. center for fractious idiots. 🙄10 -
I just wanted to be clear, too, that when someone in the US (TN, I think) is surprised that churches opening and having in-person services isn't a big deal in AU, and says that it is one of the biggest deals here, it should be clear that's not true throughout the US. Because for most of us in many places the churches (or vast majority of them) aren't demanding that in-person services should be held and voluntarily chose to stop them for safety reasons -- probably similar to what happened in AU. When Trump was talking about opening churches for Easter, the Archdiocese here had already canceled Easter mass (and again same with all the mainline Protestant churches I know, although many of them aren't as centralized). So the idea that it's a huge issue with churches demanding to open is regional or local (or somewhat sectarian and politicized), IMO.
Across the world, church services and other religious gatherings have been the source of a number of super-spreading events, unfortunately, and I think responsible churches are well aware of and concerned about that.
I have to admit I have no idea why religious leaders want to take these risks, other than it is easier to pass a collection plate onsite.
I work at home and communicate with people from all across the country constantly and have productive meetings. A number of churches do this as well. A forward-thinking pastor streaming his sermon and posting a link to a pay app can keep the church solvent for a few months while protecting his congregation's health. If yours is not innovative and is careless with your health then maybe you should reevaluate your church?13 -
Lol...someone is on a disagree spree...4
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cwolfman13 wrote: »Lol...someone is on a disagree spree...
That's funny (and it wasn't me!). Just went to the grocery store in Tucson to pick up a few things for tonight's dinner. Nail, hair salons and barbershops are open and PACKED! Half the people seem to be acting still cautiously and the other half have lost their damn minds.
Someone can feel free to disagree with that! We're gonna have a lot more cases in 3 to 4 weeks.
In my area, to see someone under 30 is rare, and many aren't in great health, so it's a bit surprising and yet petrifying at the same time.7 -
yes Exactly,I am in GA- and In our churches(African methodist episcopal-AME) we are NOt in churches at all- nor will we be until latest in June or maybe later-our bishop says- the cost of lives is too important- also we may not go back then(although Ga is open for houses of worship- when our Govenor opened our state)- Our pastors- do services online- we have a cash app, then older can mail in collection and ONLY two people go to the church building to handle money and We BOTH wear a mask- gloves when handliing the money and hand sanitizer-7
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Crazy.. we've had a hot spot in a nursing home, people just kept getting infected many died and they were all scratching their heads as to how and why... someone has finally had a lightbulb moment and they've now realised that 2 of the healthcare workers also worked on the Ruby Princess ( floating coronavirus Petri dish that docked in Sydney) uhhh.. why yes, I think that might be something to look at smh🙄😒12
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Of course in IL liquor and recreational marijuana retailers have been deemed essential and open through all of this.
I think liquor has been deemed essential in every state with closures. I know it was the case here in MN as well.
Pretty screwed up priorities IMO and I drink.
In IL it's pretty irrelevant as grocery stores are open and delivery is largely open and liquor (of all kinds) is available both ways.
When our stores reopened three weeks ago, the liquor shelves were emptied or completely covered over. Then that restriction was finally removed this week.0 -
Yesterday's home runs don't win today's games. This thing is changing on the daily. It's a fluid situation. Everyone is letting their guard down around here. People give you the stinkeye when you go to the grocery store with a mask on. You almost feel the need to explain yourself but I won't. I don't give a rat's @$$ what they think of me. I'm still taking care of older folkaronies. They're my main concern and I'm doing all I can to keep them well. I care.18
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Grocery store are limiting amount of meat one can buy on a trip, results in more trip to store?4
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yes Exactly,I am in GA- and In our churches(African methodist episcopal-AME) we are NOt in churches at all- nor will we be until latest in June or maybe later-our bishop says- the cost of lives is too important- also we may not go back then(although Ga is open for houses of worship- when our Govenor opened our state)- Our pastors- do services online- we have a cash app, then older can mail in collection and ONLY two people go to the church building to handle money and We BOTH wear a mask- gloves when handliing the money and hand sanitizer-
Lots of solutions available. Zoom works really well for church meetings. A few of the older folks were given donations of laptops or tablets so they could join in. Learning tech in heir old age.
About the money, we find that has increased. It was easy to slip in a small amount when it all went into the common total. Now every contribution has to get there individually, so no one wants their name associated with an amount that might appear "too small".7
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