Coronavirus prep
Replies
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Could someone explain to me how they would do an 'elbow bump' while maintaining the 2 meter or 6 foot social distancimg?
Maybe some people could do it, I know my upper arms are not long enough
That's true ElioraFR! Best if people just say hello I think.
Someone I know has a temperature, cough and is lethargic and it never occurred to them it could be Covid-19. Unbelievable to me. They are going to the doctor for another reason today so if it is Covid possibly spreading it in the doctor's office. I told them that we are asked when booking in if we have any symptoms but apparently isn't asked there and she didn't bother to mention it. *bangs head on keyboard!*
Friends of my husband's in Netherlands have the same response. Two of them are sick, they have chalked it up as a 'cold' and are not getting tests.
No wonder this pandemic is still spreading.
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Could someone explain to me how they would do an 'elbow bump' while maintaining the 2 meter or 6 foot social distancimg?
Maybe some people could do it, I know my upper arms are not long enough
I think the idea would be to bump and keep on moving. No standing around for social conversation.2 -
Don't hand me no lines and keep your hands and bumps to yourself. Good decision, Tony.4
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janejellyroll wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Goodness, I don’t envy you having to enforce those rules, but good on you for trying.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Which practices? The ones that many parents taught their children while growing up? Wash your hands before eating. Cover your nose when you sneeze. Wash your hands after using the toilet. Cover your mouth when you cough. Wash your hands after touching money. Don't lie in bed with clothes you wore outdoors. By the way, did I mention wash your hands?
Why are normal civilized people no longer doing these things??
After returning to the office for 4 days this week, I’m pretty confident half my coworkers have spent their summer doing drugs or something else to wipe off all brain cells that carry learned human decency and guidelines. It has consistently always been the rule, first as general human decency and then as official HR policy, that you wash your hands with water and soap when you come in to any space from outdoors. We have hand sanitizer bottles all around the office, but at this point everyone should know water and soap are better and hand sanitizer should be used as complementary add-in or when proper hand-washing isn’t available. Some of the discussions I’ve had this week include:
”Please wash your hands first, you just came in from outside”
”But I only touched a few doorknobs”
”Still.” (Me in my head: yeah, you went outside, probably touched your face while smoking, and then used the doors and elevators in this 11-floor office building that has quite a lot of people)
”Please wash your hands with water and soap”
”But I’m using hand sanitizer”
”That’s great as an addition, but doesn’t replace soap”
”Huh, since when?”
”It never has...”
After referencing these discussions the CEO gave me permission to start giving personal office bans at my discretion for those who can’t or won’t follow the hygiene rules. At this point being allowed to leave home and come to work at the office is a privilege and those who don’t follow the rules to make it safe for others won’t be allowed to use it. If people want to ignore hygiene and safety rules, they can do it in the privacy of their own home where they won’t risk their colleagues. They just have to deal with focusing on work with their kids jumping around etc., but life is full of choices and everyone is welcome to continue working from home if hand-washing at the office is too much trouble.
Wow!! I wouldn't want to be the one sending workers back home, but I guess you need to take action if people are so dumb.
In our workplace there are handwashing signs everywhere, and extra taps and sinks have been installed. It is also mentioned at every huddle or staff meeting. It just simply is the new normal.
Masks, distancing, and temperature checks are also part of the daily routine. Everything is being done to protect everyone else and keep the workplace safe.
IMO, to be honest, if grown *kitten* adults need to be told to wash their hands the train has already left the station and no amount of HR signs and announcements will do any good.
Yep. The thing that bothers me most about those discussions is that the reaction isn’t ”oh crap I spaced out, will wash immediately” but instead some sort of complaining about not wanting to do it for reason X.
The rules are in place for a reason, and as head of HR I will be enforcing them. It’s not fair to let the few idiots run wild at the office and risk those who want to come in, focus on their work without at-home distractions, and follow the rules to keep themselves and everyone around the as safe as possible. The office is not a playground for misbehaving children, it’s a workplace where people should be able to be safe and focus on their work like adults.
From HR viewpoint, people get used to signs so fast they are only useful for a day or two, after that they’re really just virtue signaling that we care and have plans in place, and they show the right message for the few guests that do come in. I’m hoping I don’t have to start actually banning people, hopefully having 1-on-1 discussions about rules being enforced and bans being issued for further non-compliance is enough of a threat.
(Yeah, I probably shouldn’t call my colleagues idiots or misbehaving children, but I’m human and they’re risking my health too.)
As I’ve mentioned before, I have been aware of other people’s germ-spreading behaviors for a while now, due to periodically being on immune-suppressing medication. It’s not a surprise to me that most adults don’t wash their hands, won’t cover their mouths during a cough or sneeze, and are downright hostile if someone suggests that they should avoid others while symptomatic. I work from home and don’t go out much, and caught four separate colds last winter due to others. I can probably pinpoint the exact person who gave me each illness, since they typically came on two to four days after being near the child with fever and a cough lying down on a restaurant booth during an adult drinking party because “I couldn’t leave him with a sitter when he’s sick,” or the lady with a rattling chest cough not covering her mouth and bumping me from behind in line at the grocery. Or the young fireman staring vacantly into space coughing constantly not covering his mouth in the packet pickup tent at a race. In each case I removed myself from the vicinity as soon as I could and it wasn’t good enough. I don’t have servants, it’s not possible for me to avoid all other people, so when a substantial number of them are determined to spread illness, I get sick.
If this epidemic has any silver lining, I hope it is that it becomes much less socially acceptable to kill other people with your germs. Because doing this kills people, and not just when covid is around. Fragile elderly and immune compromised people exist at all times, and your fever and lingering cough may be someone else’s death sentence.
One of my kids was sick recently and a doctor had to get involved. We had a conversation and I told her, that even though I am a very conscientious person, I really used to feel that getting sick was inevitable with my little germ-nuggets. And that I didn't think twice on going around when I had sick kids at home. Complete thoughtlessness!
But COVID has brought home that though I'm not currently sick, I could be a carrier and spread it to others outside the family. So I will definitely be more careful in the future when illness is in my family to not be a jerkface carelessly spreading it everywhere.
One of my friends has a prematurely born daughter with lugn issues so regular flus were extremely dangerous to her as a baby. They couldn’t take her anywhere with public transportation because of the infection risk and every invitation to their home included a ”stay the *kitten* away if you have any symptoms whatsoever” reminder. I admit that pre-covid I thought smaller symptoms like a runny nose or a little cough weren’t a reason to stay home and isolate if I felt otherwise fine and was able to go on about my regular day, and things like her case were the exception. In the future I will definitely stay home with smaller symptoms, and I hope this pandemic permanently changes the current (pre-covid) culture where showing up was more important than knowing when to not show up.
Now that many workplaces have tried working from home and seen it can be done, I hope in the future ”I feel like I might be getting sick” is a good enough reason to stay home and work from there without employers questioning it. Unrelated, I also hope handshaking will become a thing of the past.
Saw something recently in the Wall Street Journal that WFH isn't as good as advertised.
Also, i disagree and hope handshakes, fists bumps etc come back when this is behind us. People are social animals and an appropriate touch is part of that socialization.
This is the article discussing the perhaps WFH isn't as good on a long term basis. Fine for when people are sick IMO.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/companies-start-to-think-remote-work-isnt-so-great-after-all-11595603397
It's popping up behind a paywall now but I was able to read it a few days ago.
Headline:Companies Start to Think Remote Work Isn’t So Great After AllProjects take longer. Collaboration is harder. And training new workers is a struggle. ‘This is not going to be sustainable.’
Re: training new workers. We had 4 new employees start during lockdown, and 4 started less than a month before lockdown started. All 4 who started during lockdown and completely from home said it was surprisingly easy and they felt actually more connected to their coworkers since Teams communication and video meetings require people to be more intentional and present than at the office where you can more easily ignore your surroundings. Apparently it’s also helpful to NOT meet everyone on your first day, because you can actually get to know colleagues one by one, and even in large meetings everyone automatically has their name displayed so there’s no awkwardness about being expected to remember the names of all 30 people you were introduced to on your first day.
2 of the workers who started just before lockdown are entry level. They struggled more because they need more hands-on guidance and training about the actual work than more experienced professionals, and they’re also less confident to speak up and ask in Teams if they’re struggling or need more advice.
Interesting. Where I work (multi-billion $, multi-national corporation) standard practice is people have the camera off/piece of Post-It Note over the camera so all that is seen in a Teams meeting is the material being presented and pictures of the participants from our corporate directory or blank space. A person in a Teams meeting could be doing Lord knows what and nobody on the meeting would know. Meeting "live" in a conference room it's pretty easy to see who is really engaged IMO.
We do Zoom meetings, but everyone is visible. It would be considered weird/not acceptable to cover the camera. We don't do lots of meetings in general, however, and lots of team stuff is handled by phone (and pretty easy to tell who is participating, as everyone is supposed to be contributing to the discussion).
We also have a new lawyer who started just before the stay at home order, who had been a judicial clerk before. It's been pretty impossible to give him the kind of feedback/training he would have received in person in the office.
Nobody uses video on our Skype meetings. In fact, when at the office, my computer is on the docking station and closed. I couldn't display video in that position anyway.
We use Zoom, I would say about 50% of the people use their video and 50% don't. There's been no direction or feedback for those of us who aren't using it (I usually don't have it on). Our meetings typically involve lots of presentations of spreadsheets, software details, or blueprints so that's usually what people are focused on.
I'd been working remotely since 2011. We didn't have formal presentations per se, but we always had a screenshare of the computer of the person driving the meeting, and never used video of participants.5 -
Oooo @kshama2001. Just look at the fun thread you've created. I've had a whale of a good time here.1
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
I think sometimes people don't realize, until the damage is done. Thinking back to the early days of workstation ergonomics at my job, we'd been having quite a few problems (i.e., people injured, some worse than others; workers' comp reports; etc. - bad consequence for both people and organization). We sent a smart, conscientious employee off for detailed training, and put a remediation program in play, starting with the already-affected, moving to others who volunteered, and finishing up with recommendations for the resistant ( 😆 you can lead a horse to water . . . .). The ergonomics-checker person was pretty much empowered to order what was needful, from a long standard list of stuff, with other things possible after discussion. There was a huge positive impact, and problems went to near zero from then forward.
I think now, people don't realize their home set-up is a problem at first, then the cumulative stress injuries start turning up. Even then, I'm betting some blame generic "stress" or something else, and I'm guessing some don't have a good handle on what adjustments to make, or can't afford to make them at home.
It'll take a while, sadly, for this stuff to sort out.7 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
I think sometimes people don't realize, until the damage is done. Thinking back to the early days of workstation ergonomics at my job, we'd been having quite a few problems (i.e., people injured, some worse than others; workers' comp reports; etc. - bad consequence for both people and organization). We sent a smart, conscientious employee off for detailed training, and put a remediation program in play, starting with the already-affected, moving to others who volunteered, and finishing up with recommendations for the resistant ( 😆 you can lead a horse to water . . . .). The ergonomics-checker person was pretty much empowered to order what was needful, from a long standard list of stuff, with other things possible after discussion. There was a huge positive impact, and problems went to near zero from then forward.
I think now, people don't realize their home set-up is a problem at first, then the cumulative stress injuries start turning up. Even then, I'm betting some blame generic "stress" or something else, and I'm guessing some don't have a good handle on what adjustments to make, or can't afford to make them at home.
It'll take a while, sadly, for this stuff to sort out.
Yep definitely cumulative. I've had several shoulder operations and both thumb joints rebuilt along with numerous issues of hip/back pain due to years in an office environment. It can take a while for issues to manifest.
Our location at least (don't know about the entire corporation) had told us it's fine to take extra computer monitors office chairs home during the WFH time (have to transport anything on your own though).4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
I think sometimes people don't realize, until the damage is done. Thinking back to the early days of workstation ergonomics at my job, we'd been having quite a few problems (i.e., people injured, some worse than others; workers' comp reports; etc. - bad consequence for both people and organization). We sent a smart, conscientious employee off for detailed training, and put a remediation program in play, starting with the already-affected, moving to others who volunteered, and finishing up with recommendations for the resistant ( 😆 you can lead a horse to water . . . .). The ergonomics-checker person was pretty much empowered to order what was needful, from a long standard list of stuff, with other things possible after discussion. There was a huge positive impact, and problems went to near zero from then forward.
I think now, people don't realize their home set-up is a problem at first, then the cumulative stress injuries start turning up. Even then, I'm betting some blame generic "stress" or something else, and I'm guessing some don't have a good handle on what adjustments to make, or can't afford to make them at home.
It'll take a while, sadly, for this stuff to sort out.
Yep definitely cumulative. I've had several shoulder operations and both thumb joints rebuilt along with numerous issues of hip/back pain due to years in an office environment. It can take a while for issues to manifest.
Our location at least (don't know about the entire corporation) had told us it's fine to take extra computer monitors office chairs home during the WFH time (have to transport anything on your own though).
Same here, we are allowed to bring monitors etc home. Still, that’s just part of the solution. Many live in small apartments where they don’t have proper office spaces, enough room to put an adjustable desk in (even if they could figure out how to bring a desk home from the office), and the lighting isn’t planned for office work. For example, I only have a small desk at home and no room for a bigger one, it’s not adjustable and it’s at the wrong height for working long periods of time, and it’s in the darkest corner of my apartment because I can’t fit it anywhere else. Plus, it’s in the same room as my husband’s desk so if one of us is having meetings we have to either put on headphones and blast music to drown out the meeting noise or one has to go work on the bed or bedroom floor.
There’s also the issue of human laziness. If given the option to work from your own couch in pyjamas, many people are going to take it.4 -
I have been working from home since March and have only just (this weekend) sorted myself out with a desk and monitor rather than using my laptop on the kitchen table. Part of it was not knowing how long it was going to last, and part of it was not feeling too bad. But then I started racing time trials again which puts a bit more strain on my back/shoulders and I really started to feel it while working so decided to do something about it.
In theory I could have got a monitor from work, but on the basis that when we go back it may not be full time at first, and I cycle to work, I really can't transport it backwards and forwards every day so it made more sense to buy my own. Not to mention that it would have involved going in to the office, which I have no other real reason to do at the moment.7 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
I think sometimes people don't realize, until the damage is done. Thinking back to the early days of workstation ergonomics at my job, we'd been having quite a few problems (i.e., people injured, some worse than others; workers' comp reports; etc. - bad consequence for both people and organization). We sent a smart, conscientious employee off for detailed training, and put a remediation program in play, starting with the already-affected, moving to others who volunteered, and finishing up with recommendations for the resistant ( 😆 you can lead a horse to water . . . .). The ergonomics-checker person was pretty much empowered to order what was needful, from a long standard list of stuff, with other things possible after discussion. There was a huge positive impact, and problems went to near zero from then forward.
I think now, people don't realize their home set-up is a problem at first, then the cumulative stress injuries start turning up. Even then, I'm betting some blame generic "stress" or something else, and I'm guessing some don't have a good handle on what adjustments to make, or can't afford to make them at home.
It'll take a while, sadly, for this stuff to sort out.
Yep definitely cumulative. I've had several shoulder operations and both thumb joints rebuilt along with numerous issues of hip/back pain due to years in an office environment. It can take a while for issues to manifest.
Our location at least (don't know about the entire corporation) had told us it's fine to take extra computer monitors office chairs home during the WFH time (have to transport anything on your own though).
Same here, we are allowed to bring monitors etc home. Still, that’s just part of the solution. Many live in small apartments where they don’t have proper office spaces, enough room to put an adjustable desk in (even if they could figure out how to bring a desk home from the office), and the lighting isn’t planned for office work. For example, I only have a small desk at home and no room for a bigger one, it’s not adjustable and it’s at the wrong height for working long periods of time, and it’s in the darkest corner of my apartment because I can’t fit it anywhere else. Plus, it’s in the same room as my husband’s desk so if one of us is having meetings we have to either put on headphones and blast music to drown out the meeting noise or one has to go work on the bed or bedroom floor.
There’s also the issue of human laziness. If given the option to work from your own couch in pyjamas, many people are going to take it.
This is me, I don't have a space in my apartment where I could put a desk, so I'm working from my dining table (too high). I have floor to ceiling glass on 3 walls of 4, so although it seems lovely and bright, actually the glare gives me a lot of headaches. If I don't work in this room though, my only other option is in bed.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
I think sometimes people don't realize, until the damage is done. Thinking back to the early days of workstation ergonomics at my job, we'd been having quite a few problems (i.e., people injured, some worse than others; workers' comp reports; etc. - bad consequence for both people and organization). We sent a smart, conscientious employee off for detailed training, and put a remediation program in play, starting with the already-affected, moving to others who volunteered, and finishing up with recommendations for the resistant ( 😆 you can lead a horse to water . . . .). The ergonomics-checker person was pretty much empowered to order what was needful, from a long standard list of stuff, with other things possible after discussion. There was a huge positive impact, and problems went to near zero from then forward.
I think now, people don't realize their home set-up is a problem at first, then the cumulative stress injuries start turning up. Even then, I'm betting some blame generic "stress" or something else, and I'm guessing some don't have a good handle on what adjustments to make, or can't afford to make them at home.
It'll take a while, sadly, for this stuff to sort out.
Yep definitely cumulative. I've had several shoulder operations and both thumb joints rebuilt along with numerous issues of hip/back pain due to years in an office environment. It can take a while for issues to manifest.
Our location at least (don't know about the entire corporation) had told us it's fine to take extra computer monitors office chairs home during the WFH time (have to transport anything on your own though).
Same here, we are allowed to bring monitors etc home. Still, that’s just part of the solution. Many live in small apartments where they don’t have proper office spaces, enough room to put an adjustable desk in (even if they could figure out how to bring a desk home from the office), and the lighting isn’t planned for office work. For example, I only have a small desk at home and no room for a bigger one, it’s not adjustable and it’s at the wrong height for working long periods of time, and it’s in the darkest corner of my apartment because I can’t fit it anywhere else. Plus, it’s in the same room as my husband’s desk so if one of us is having meetings we have to either put on headphones and blast music to drown out the meeting noise or one has to go work on the bed or bedroom floor.
There’s also the issue of human laziness. If given the option to work from your own couch in pyjamas, many people are going to take it.
#truth
Though I quickly discovered that I had to put myself into a routine when working from home, which meant getting up, showered, and dressed, then working the day from my office (or sometimes my deck when the weather was really nice). When I spent all day, every day in pajamas I just felt lethargic and gross. The schedule / normal attire helped me to feel better and separate home/work life. Now I'm back in the office most days, so it isn't an issue (as much), and the occasional pajama/work days are a treat rather than something to feel icky about.7 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
I think sometimes people don't realize, until the damage is done. Thinking back to the early days of workstation ergonomics at my job, we'd been having quite a few problems (i.e., people injured, some worse than others; workers' comp reports; etc. - bad consequence for both people and organization). We sent a smart, conscientious employee off for detailed training, and put a remediation program in play, starting with the already-affected, moving to others who volunteered, and finishing up with recommendations for the resistant ( 😆 you can lead a horse to water . . . .). The ergonomics-checker person was pretty much empowered to order what was needful, from a long standard list of stuff, with other things possible after discussion. There was a huge positive impact, and problems went to near zero from then forward.
I think now, people don't realize their home set-up is a problem at first, then the cumulative stress injuries start turning up. Even then, I'm betting some blame generic "stress" or something else, and I'm guessing some don't have a good handle on what adjustments to make, or can't afford to make them at home.
It'll take a while, sadly, for this stuff to sort out.
Yep definitely cumulative. I've had several shoulder operations and both thumb joints rebuilt along with numerous issues of hip/back pain due to years in an office environment. It can take a while for issues to manifest.
Our location at least (don't know about the entire corporation) had told us it's fine to take extra computer monitors office chairs home during the WFH time (have to transport anything on your own though).
Same here, we are allowed to bring monitors etc home. Still, that’s just part of the solution. Many live in small apartments where they don’t have proper office spaces, enough room to put an adjustable desk in (even if they could figure out how to bring a desk home from the office), and the lighting isn’t planned for office work. For example, I only have a small desk at home and no room for a bigger one, it’s not adjustable and it’s at the wrong height for working long periods of time, and it’s in the darkest corner of my apartment because I can’t fit it anywhere else. Plus, it’s in the same room as my husband’s desk so if one of us is having meetings we have to either put on headphones and blast music to drown out the meeting noise or one has to go work on the bed or bedroom floor.
There’s also the issue of human laziness. If given the option to work from your own couch in pyjamas, many people are going to take it.
If I had to sit on the floor or the bed with a lap top I'd take my chances with the 'rona and go in the office as I would be walking. Actually our office is open as it is part of a manufacturing facility and people that directly support the manufacturing processes need to be there. I worked there for a couple weeks when we had some flooring installed. Probably about 10% of normal occupancy, thermometer at the entrance, no issues.
I'm fortunate to have a pretty nice set up at home. We have an "office" room that's about 15'x15', bought an adjustable height glass top desk, a "kneeling ergonomic chair" and a 32" monitor a couple years ago. Brought home a 22" monitor from work and the work laptop also sits on the desk. Also bought an AirEx pad to stand on. Have a headset from work for Microsoft Teams meetings/calls.
My wife is works in the schools so in the spring she worked at the kitchen table. She also got a monitor and chair from work3 -
Just related to working at home. I've worked from home over 10 years, when I started my own small consulting/recruiting firm.
Last year, I hurt a disc in the thoracic spine area. When I moved last year from Ohio to AZ and put together my office again, it was clear that the chair I was using was crooked. Literally around an inch higher on one side of the chair cushion than the other. I think it lead to my back being pretty messed up most of last year. And a decent (and we are talking just decent) chair costs 200, minimum. A really nice one around 500. The back injury ended up really showing when I used my indoor rowing machine, but I think that the chair had it ready to go out at any time and the rower was just the last straw. The back didn't start getting better till I bought a new office chair.9 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
Up until a few weeks ago, my job was still not telling us for sure what was going to happen. I wasn't about to put money into something that may not be used in the long run. Now though, we have been told it will be WFH pretty much permanently for my team unless we are actually NEEDED in the office. There will be work stations where we can set up in office, but there will be something like 18 for ALL of finance/accounting. There is 20 people on my team alone and we are only a portion of the whole so we won't be back. They are totally redoing the floor plans and we won't be able to go back to how it was because we are actually going from 3 floors to 2 due to needs of others.
I do need to find a desk though for cheap. I have monitors and a chair from work that I was allowed to bring home when I went in to clean things out. Before then I was using a dining room chair. I am still set up on the dining room table in fact until I clear out the spot I want to use and get the desk. That will have to wait until next month because of money.4 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Just related to working at home. I've worked from home over 10 years, when I started my own small consulting/recruiting firm.
Last year, I hurt a disc in the thoracic spine area. When I moved last year from Ohio to AZ and put together my office again, it was clear that the chair I was using was crooked. Literally around an inch higher on one side of the chair cushion than the other. I think it lead to my back being pretty messed up most of last year. And a decent (and we are talking just decent) chair costs 200, minimum. A really nice one around 500. The back injury ended up really showing when I used my indoor rowing machine, but I think that the chair had it ready to go out at any time and the rower was just the last straw. The back didn't start getting better till I bought a new office chair.
Glad you found a solution. Talking about chairs, the Steelcase ones we have at our office are in the $1000 range. There are outlets that sell used office equipment from when places go out of business/remodel, etc. You can get the premium office chairs from Steelcase, etc for 25% of new price or so depending on condition.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
Up until a few weeks ago, my job was still not telling us for sure what was going to happen. I wasn't about to put money into something that may not be used in the long run. Now though, we have been told it will be WFH pretty much permanently for my team unless we are actually NEEDED in the office. There will be work stations where we can set up in office, but there will be something like 18 for ALL of finance/accounting. There is 20 people on my team alone and we are only a portion of the whole so we won't be back. They are totally redoing the floor plans and we won't be able to go back to how it was because we are actually going from 3 floors to 2 due to needs of others.
I do need to find a desk though for cheap. I have monitors and a chair from work that I was allowed to bring home when I went in to clean things out. Before then I was using a dining room chair. I am still set up on the dining room table in fact until I clear out the spot I want to use and get the desk. That will have to wait until next month because of money.
Desk, IMHO, is a lot less important than a good chair. More important is your mouse, the height of your monitor and the height of the keyboard and if it's ergonomic. I know a lot of young adults that have set up desks with nothing but plywood, concrete blocks and boards running between the blocks.
If you go to Pinterest and just type in Cinder Block, Plywood desk you will find a million of them. You could even dress it up a bit with some cheap wood finish with polyurethane in it to make it shine a bit.
I saw this and loved this idea. It wouldn't post the link (to Pinterest) but it was just using stacked plastic milk crates and plywood for a simple large desk idea.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/507780926728979190/
http://news.homehacks.co/plastic-crate-projects/5 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
Up until a few weeks ago, my job was still not telling us for sure what was going to happen. I wasn't about to put money into something that may not be used in the long run. Now though, we have been told it will be WFH pretty much permanently for my team unless we are actually NEEDED in the office. There will be work stations where we can set up in office, but there will be something like 18 for ALL of finance/accounting. There is 20 people on my team alone and we are only a portion of the whole so we won't be back. They are totally redoing the floor plans and we won't be able to go back to how it was because we are actually going from 3 floors to 2 due to needs of others.
I do need to find a desk though for cheap. I have monitors and a chair from work that I was allowed to bring home when I went in to clean things out. Before then I was using a dining room chair. I am still set up on the dining room table in fact until I clear out the spot I want to use and get the desk. That will have to wait until next month because of money.
Desk, IMHO, is a lot less important than a good chair. More important is your mouse, the height of your monitor and the height of the keyboard and if it's ergonomic. I know a lot of young adults that have set up desks with nothing but plywood, concrete blocks and boards running between the blocks.
If you go to Pinterest and just type in Cinder Block, Plywood desk you will find a million of them. You could even dress it up a bit with some cheap wood finish with polyurethane in it to make it shine a bit.
I saw this and loved this idea. It wouldn't post the link (to Pinterest) but it was just using stacked plastic milk crates and plywood for a simple large desk idea.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/507780926728979190/
http://news.homehacks.co/plastic-crate-projects/
A desk doesn't have to be fancy, but it does have to be at the right height. Mine is too high at home and I can't really reach the floor properly if I'm set up so that my screen and keyboard are ergonomically. My back is also all kinds of messed up and I switch between sitting and standing frequently at the office. I have yet to see cinder blocks that have electric adjusting features.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
As someone who has spent the first few months of WFH working from the floor, bed, or coffee table, I'll say I was personally in denial about how long this would last.7 -
Redordeadhead wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
I think sometimes people don't realize, until the damage is done. Thinking back to the early days of workstation ergonomics at my job, we'd been having quite a few problems (i.e., people injured, some worse than others; workers' comp reports; etc. - bad consequence for both people and organization). We sent a smart, conscientious employee off for detailed training, and put a remediation program in play, starting with the already-affected, moving to others who volunteered, and finishing up with recommendations for the resistant ( 😆 you can lead a horse to water . . . .). The ergonomics-checker person was pretty much empowered to order what was needful, from a long standard list of stuff, with other things possible after discussion. There was a huge positive impact, and problems went to near zero from then forward.
I think now, people don't realize their home set-up is a problem at first, then the cumulative stress injuries start turning up. Even then, I'm betting some blame generic "stress" or something else, and I'm guessing some don't have a good handle on what adjustments to make, or can't afford to make them at home.
It'll take a while, sadly, for this stuff to sort out.
Yep definitely cumulative. I've had several shoulder operations and both thumb joints rebuilt along with numerous issues of hip/back pain due to years in an office environment. It can take a while for issues to manifest.
Our location at least (don't know about the entire corporation) had told us it's fine to take extra computer monitors office chairs home during the WFH time (have to transport anything on your own though).
Same here, we are allowed to bring monitors etc home. Still, that’s just part of the solution. Many live in small apartments where they don’t have proper office spaces, enough room to put an adjustable desk in (even if they could figure out how to bring a desk home from the office), and the lighting isn’t planned for office work. For example, I only have a small desk at home and no room for a bigger one, it’s not adjustable and it’s at the wrong height for working long periods of time, and it’s in the darkest corner of my apartment because I can’t fit it anywhere else. Plus, it’s in the same room as my husband’s desk so if one of us is having meetings we have to either put on headphones and blast music to drown out the meeting noise or one has to go work on the bed or bedroom floor.
There’s also the issue of human laziness. If given the option to work from your own couch in pyjamas, many people are going to take it.
This is me, I don't have a space in my apartment where I could put a desk, so I'm working from my dining table (too high). I have floor to ceiling glass on 3 walls of 4, so although it seems lovely and bright, actually the glare gives me a lot of headaches. If I don't work in this room though, my only other option is in bed.
Yep, my husband and I are both working out of an 800 sq-foot apartment. I have some co-workers who have set up some lovely basement offices during this time . . . I'm mostly camped out on the couch or working from our kitchen. I do the best I can ergonomically.4 -
Something like this might be good for a couch or a standing desk from a table and it's super cheap relative to other solutions.
https://revolaptopstand.com/pages/revo-flex-stand-page-2?msclkid=c5e9ed716b32152d4ad5b243d045ad1c2 -
helen_goldthorpe wrote: »I have been working from home since March and have only just (this weekend) sorted myself out with a desk and monitor rather than using my laptop on the kitchen table. Part of it was not knowing how long it was going to last, and part of it was not feeling too bad. But then I started racing time trials again which puts a bit more strain on my back/shoulders and I really started to feel it while working so decided to do something about it.
In theory I could have got a monitor from work, but on the basis that when we go back it may not be full time at first, and I cycle to work, I really can't transport it backwards and forwards every day so it made more sense to buy my own. Not to mention that it would have involved going in to the office, which I have no other real reason to do at the moment.
I was WFH for almost 3 months. And I used my laptop screen plus an extra monitor I had. At the office, I had 2 monitors same height and better quality next to each other. Similar sith desk setup... just used a folding table. I didn't knownhow long, so didn't want to buy new stuff. Plus, I keep thinking I am moving, but that gets delayed too.
I'm thinking I should work from home again. As a T1D, I won't likely do well if I get sick and it is blowing up here. My boss is ok with it, so are managers here... except the HR manager isbreally opposed to me (and others) going back to WFH. I don't understand why. She wants me to fill out a disability accommodation request that Ibknow is going to be denied. Any ideas on how to makenthat point even though it is about risk management and not specifically a disability thing?3 -
@T1DCarnivoreRunner it sounds like your HR manager really doesn’t get it... as another HR manager, here’s some arguments that might speak to her if ”I could die” doesn’t. I’m not very familiar with the system and employment rules in the US, but at least I tried.
You could try arguing that the company is knowingly and directly putting you at a workplace safety hazard by forcing you to be at the office when (I’m guessing) there are social distancing rules and recommendations in your area. If tricky, it could even be against the employer’s insurance policy to go against rules and recommendations issued by the local government.
If you have family members / roommates / neighbors you can’t avoid that are essential workers or otherwise at higher risk for getting it and exposing you to it, you could argue your presence would be an unnecessary risk for other colleagues at the office. Sure, anyone’s presence is a risk when people should be social distancing, but that’s not the main point of this argument.
Make a case for why you’re actually more productive and have concrete proof of how much you’ve accomplished and keep accomplishing at home.
Scared, nervous and anxious workers are rarely productive or contributing to a good community atmosphere, and you’d likely be all those things if forced to go to the office. It’s also pretty bad for office morale for the anxiety to be caused directly by HR decisions.
It would be safer for everyone at the office if there’s less people there, and as a rational person you understand that some people really struggle working from home (bad desk/ergonomics situation, roommates, kids at home, general struggles focusing at home etc.) but you do better at home, so you would like to stay home, do a good job there, and give the office space to those who are needed there, have a bad WFH situation or otherwise want to be there.
Financial cost:
- calculate how much you’re paid per day, and how much employment costs your employer is paying on top of that (insurance, unemployment and retirement schemes etc.), and present how much you being out per sick day would cost the company. A bad case of covid could take several months if you’re really unlucky (a friend just hit the 150 day milestone)
- If a client pays for your time, calculate how much revenue would be missed per day
- If you work a job that would require getting a substitute to fill in for days you miss, add a couple of hours of manager work for finding that substitute. If they would need a substitute AND you get paid for sick days, double your daily cost
- If you work a highly specialized job where you aren’t easily replaced, cost of recruiting a replacement for you could easily be 10K if they would have to use a recruitment company
If all else fails, you could agree to working some extra hours since you don’t have to spend that time on your commute. As a HR person I would personally disagree since productivity isn’t an infinite resource, but if she’s just into numbers and procedures it might appeal to her.
I’m not advocating lying to HR, but there’s also the possibility of faking some light symptoms (like a sore throat) but not enough to actually to take sick days, just enough to stay home not to risk others getting it.
I kinda see where your manager is coming from, too: if the company is no longer allowing everyone WFH, it might not be her choice and she can’t give out ”random” exceptions from the rules set from above if her job is to enforce them. Also, WFH is probably making her job harder, but IMO that’s not a good enough reason. In my experience it’s really hard to do my HR job well when everyone is home and I can’t have discussions in person, but HR not meeting their goals (whether set by themselves or by the company) or doing sub-par job is a pretty small cost for employees and the company itself coming out of this pandemic mess alive.7 -
@T1DCarnivoreRunner -- good advice above. There are also softwares that HR can get that allow monitoring of productivity remotely of work computers. That industry is thriving right now with Covid-19. Many companies, that are more traditional brick and mortar, have learned new things out of necessity. Now, likely they wouldn't want to pay for something like this but most of the time the concern is that if someone is home, they won't work as hard.
Panogard is like $5 a month per computer. If they want to see what you're working on any time of the day, they could see it.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »We had a large departmental meeting today. The department head mentioned with all of us WFH, cases of eyestrain, neck, back, etc. pain are expanding exponentially. Small monitors, poor chairs, desks too low/high and so on.
Be careful out there.
I would have expected this the first week or two, but surely there has been plenty of time to get decent chairs, desks, monitors, etc?
When I moved in 2011, I got a used computer desk on craigslist before I got a washer and dryer. I had the chair, computer, and two monitors from work.
I think sometimes people don't realize, until the damage is done. Thinking back to the early days of workstation ergonomics at my job, we'd been having quite a few problems (i.e., people injured, some worse than others; workers' comp reports; etc. - bad consequence for both people and organization). We sent a smart, conscientious employee off for detailed training, and put a remediation program in play, starting with the already-affected, moving to others who volunteered, and finishing up with recommendations for the resistant ( 😆 you can lead a horse to water . . . .). The ergonomics-checker person was pretty much empowered to order what was needful, from a long standard list of stuff, with other things possible after discussion. There was a huge positive impact, and problems went to near zero from then forward.
I think now, people don't realize their home set-up is a problem at first, then the cumulative stress injuries start turning up. Even then, I'm betting some blame generic "stress" or something else, and I'm guessing some don't have a good handle on what adjustments to make, or can't afford to make them at home.
It'll take a while, sadly, for this stuff to sort out.
Yep definitely cumulative. I've had several shoulder operations and both thumb joints rebuilt along with numerous issues of hip/back pain due to years in an office environment. It can take a while for issues to manifest.
Our location at least (don't know about the entire corporation) had told us it's fine to take extra computer monitors office chairs home during the WFH time (have to transport anything on your own though).
Same here, we are allowed to bring monitors etc home. Still, that’s just part of the solution. Many live in small apartments where they don’t have proper office spaces, enough room to put an adjustable desk in (even if they could figure out how to bring a desk home from the office), and the lighting isn’t planned for office work. For example, I only have a small desk at home and no room for a bigger one, it’s not adjustable and it’s at the wrong height for working long periods of time, and it’s in the darkest corner of my apartment because I can’t fit it anywhere else. Plus, it’s in the same room as my husband’s desk so if one of us is having meetings we have to either put on headphones and blast music to drown out the meeting noise or one has to go work on the bed or bedroom floor.
There’s also the issue of human laziness. If given the option to work from your own couch in pyjamas, many people are going to take it.
I worked in my pjs (at my desk) until lunch, at which point I changed into exercise clothes, which, depending on how sweaty I got, I might stay in for the rest of the day
Perhaps it is some combination of years of ballet and yoga, a decades-long struggle with lower back pain, and ergonomics training at work in the 90's, but I'm aware of bad ergonomics within minutes and find it intolerable.
Conversely, my OH used to work on his laptop while lying in bed.
I hate laptop keyboards. My OH says I'd get used to it if I used it all the time, but I doubt it. If I had to use a laptop, I'd use it (and have used it) with a proper keyboard, mouse, and monitors. At a desk. A computer desk.
1 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »@T1DCarnivoreRunner -- good advice above. There are also softwares that HR can get that allow monitoring of productivity remotely of work computers. That industry is thriving right now with Covid-19. Many companies, that are more traditional brick and mortar, have learned new things out of necessity. Now, likely they wouldn't want to pay for something like this but most of the time the concern is that if someone is home, they won't work as hard.
Panogard is like $5 a month per computer. If they want to see what you're working on any time of the day, they could see it.
Sure... the argument isn't productivity, though. There just truly is no explanation of why she is opposed to it. Instead, just saying no. I'm sure she can't defend the reason and therefore is just avoiding it.
I am going to try to fill out the form to request an accommodation and be clear about it. We know that glycosalation of ACE2 receptors is needed for SARS-COV-2 to enter cells, a condition increased during hyperglycemia. But since I am not yet infected, my guess is that it won't matter. But worth a try. If nothing else, maybe I can ask for a transfer to our corp. office. Everyone there is working remotely anyway and I report to corp.... not a big change to just update my home location.
FTR, I'm doing work for 4 plants in 3 states with 3 legal entities anyway. Most of my work is already being done remotely from my base location.5 -
I was at the farm implement store buying some seeds and I ran into some Hell's Angels on their back home from the moto rally in Sturgis. I asked them how it was and they said it was just alright, kinda flat this year. They were going into the mountains and back through the Park on their way to Cali.
They did say that no one was wearing masks over there. They were there buying bungee cords because there was so much gear that had fallen off bikes all over the road and they cherry picked the best stuff. Right before all of these Sturgis rallies inexperienced people buy brand new bikes. Some drive there in fancy trailers and simply try to ride their bikes into the rally. Others drive off the roads, wreck, lose gear and keep going. The older folkaronies break bones and get hurt.
5 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »@T1DCarnivoreRunner -- good advice above. There are also softwares that HR can get that allow monitoring of productivity remotely of work computers. That industry is thriving right now with Covid-19. Many companies, that are more traditional brick and mortar, have learned new things out of necessity. Now, likely they wouldn't want to pay for something like this but most of the time the concern is that if someone is home, they won't work as hard.
Panogard is like $5 a month per computer. If they want to see what you're working on any time of the day, they could see it.
Sure... the argument isn't productivity, though. There just truly is no explanation of why she is opposed to it. Instead, just saying no. I'm sure she can't defend the reason and therefore is just avoiding it.
I am going to try to fill out the form to request an accommodation and be clear about it. We know that glycosalation of ACE2 receptors is needed for SARS-COV-2 to enter cells, a condition increased during hyperglycemia. But since I am not yet infected, my guess is that it won't matter. But worth a try. If nothing else, maybe I can ask for a transfer to our corp. office. Everyone there is working remotely anyway and I report to corp.... not a big change to just update my home location.
FTR, I'm doing work for 4 plants in 3 states with 3 legal entities anyway. Most of my work is already being done remotely from my base location.
Does your form have a place for a doctor's note/signature? Sure way to get an accommodation to WFH.6 -
Anybody else here notice their house/yard gradually getting more unkempt during this pandemic? It's the opposite of what I would expect. I'm already a stay at home person. I figured with extra time from curtailed outside activities, I'd get more done at home - DIYs, deep cleaning, major yardwork. That's not what's happening, though. I'm actually doing less than before. Letting stuff go. Just recently started realizing it. Better formulate a plan to fix this before it becomes habit!
Is it just me, or is this a thing?9 -
The house and garden have been kept. I am always washing dishes and surfaces, loading and unloading the dishwasher, cooking, disinfecting, and washing clothes. There are only two (old) adults living in the house so I have no idea where the extra work comes from, but I admit that I am a control freak and I like to clean and organize.
What I did notice is that extra things (organizing drawers and closets, cleaning, throwing away stuff, etc.) that I would and should do is not getting done. And I know that in few months I will be very upset with myself for procrastinating. I am retired and I have been home for 10 years already so I am used to be at home person like you. But I am taking it to the extreme right now.
I think that there is a sense of apathy for many of us because in many places the situation is worse and we don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Many of us are using more time trying to keep up with family and friends by phone or e-mail too since we can't see anybody in person. I least it is for me.
MFP is also to blame...
4
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