Coronavirus prep
Replies
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Goodness, I don’t envy you having to enforce those rules, but good on you for trying.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Which practices? The ones that many parents taught their children while growing up? Wash your hands before eating. Cover your nose when you sneeze. Wash your hands after using the toilet. Cover your mouth when you cough. Wash your hands after touching money. Don't lie in bed with clothes you wore outdoors. By the way, did I mention wash your hands?
Why are normal civilized people no longer doing these things??
After returning to the office for 4 days this week, I’m pretty confident half my coworkers have spent their summer doing drugs or something else to wipe off all brain cells that carry learned human decency and guidelines. It has consistently always been the rule, first as general human decency and then as official HR policy, that you wash your hands with water and soap when you come in to any space from outdoors. We have hand sanitizer bottles all around the office, but at this point everyone should know water and soap are better and hand sanitizer should be used as complementary add-in or when proper hand-washing isn’t available. Some of the discussions I’ve had this week include:
”Please wash your hands first, you just came in from outside”
”But I only touched a few doorknobs”
”Still.” (Me in my head: yeah, you went outside, probably touched your face while smoking, and then used the doors and elevators in this 11-floor office building that has quite a lot of people)
”Please wash your hands with water and soap”
”But I’m using hand sanitizer”
”That’s great as an addition, but doesn’t replace soap”
”Huh, since when?”
”It never has...”
After referencing these discussions the CEO gave me permission to start giving personal office bans at my discretion for those who can’t or won’t follow the hygiene rules. At this point being allowed to leave home and come to work at the office is a privilege and those who don’t follow the rules to make it safe for others won’t be allowed to use it. If people want to ignore hygiene and safety rules, they can do it in the privacy of their own home where they won’t risk their colleagues. They just have to deal with focusing on work with their kids jumping around etc., but life is full of choices and everyone is welcome to continue working from home if hand-washing at the office is too much trouble.
Wow!! I wouldn't want to be the one sending workers back home, but I guess you need to take action if people are so dumb.
In our workplace there are handwashing signs everywhere, and extra taps and sinks have been installed. It is also mentioned at every huddle or staff meeting. It just simply is the new normal.
Masks, distancing, and temperature checks are also part of the daily routine. Everything is being done to protect everyone else and keep the workplace safe.
IMO, to be honest, if grown *kitten* adults need to be told to wash their hands the train has already left the station and no amount of HR signs and announcements will do any good.
Yep. The thing that bothers me most about those discussions is that the reaction isn’t ”oh crap I spaced out, will wash immediately” but instead some sort of complaining about not wanting to do it for reason X.
The rules are in place for a reason, and as head of HR I will be enforcing them. It’s not fair to let the few idiots run wild at the office and risk those who want to come in, focus on their work without at-home distractions, and follow the rules to keep themselves and everyone around the as safe as possible. The office is not a playground for misbehaving children, it’s a workplace where people should be able to be safe and focus on their work like adults.
From HR viewpoint, people get used to signs so fast they are only useful for a day or two, after that they’re really just virtue signaling that we care and have plans in place, and they show the right message for the few guests that do come in. I’m hoping I don’t have to start actually banning people, hopefully having 1-on-1 discussions about rules being enforced and bans being issued for further non-compliance is enough of a threat.
(Yeah, I probably shouldn’t call my colleagues idiots or misbehaving children, but I’m human and they’re risking my health too.)
As I’ve mentioned before, I have been aware of other people’s germ-spreading behaviors for a while now, due to periodically being on immune-suppressing medication. It’s not a surprise to me that most adults don’t wash their hands, won’t cover their mouths during a cough or sneeze, and are downright hostile if someone suggests that they should avoid others while symptomatic. I work from home and don’t go out much, and caught four separate colds last winter due to others. I can probably pinpoint the exact person who gave me each illness, since they typically came on two to four days after being near the child with fever and a cough lying down on a restaurant booth during an adult drinking party because “I couldn’t leave him with a sitter when he’s sick,” or the lady with a rattling chest cough not covering her mouth and bumping me from behind in line at the grocery. Or the young fireman staring vacantly into space coughing constantly not covering his mouth in the packet pickup tent at a race. In each case I removed myself from the vicinity as soon as I could and it wasn’t good enough. I don’t have servants, it’s not possible for me to avoid all other people, so when a substantial number of them are determined to spread illness, I get sick.
If this epidemic has any silver lining, I hope it is that it becomes much less socially acceptable to kill other people with your germs. Because doing this kills people, and not just when covid is around. Fragile elderly and immune compromised people exist at all times, and your fever and lingering cough may be someone else’s death sentence.
One of my kids was sick recently and a doctor had to get involved. We had a conversation and I told her, that even though I am a very conscientious person, I really used to feel that getting sick was inevitable with my little germ-nuggets. And that I didn't think twice on going around when I had sick kids at home. Complete thoughtlessness!
But COVID has brought home that though I'm not currently sick, I could be a carrier and spread it to others outside the family. So I will definitely be more careful in the future when illness is in my family to not be a jerkface carelessly spreading it everywhere.
One of my friends has a prematurely born daughter with lugn issues so regular flus were extremely dangerous to her as a baby. They couldn’t take her anywhere with public transportation because of the infection risk and every invitation to their home included a ”stay the *kitten* away if you have any symptoms whatsoever” reminder. I admit that pre-covid I thought smaller symptoms like a runny nose or a little cough weren’t a reason to stay home and isolate if I felt otherwise fine and was able to go on about my regular day, and things like her case were the exception. In the future I will definitely stay home with smaller symptoms, and I hope this pandemic permanently changes the current (pre-covid) culture where showing up was more important than knowing when to not show up.
Now that many workplaces have tried working from home and seen it can be done, I hope in the future ”I feel like I might be getting sick” is a good enough reason to stay home and work from there without employers questioning it. Unrelated, I also hope handshaking will become a thing of the past.
Saw something recently in the Wall Street Journal that WFH isn't as good as advertised.
Also, i disagree and hope handshakes, fists bumps etc come back when this is behind us. People are social animals and an appropriate touch is part of that socialization.
Fist bumps would be better than handshakes. Some eastern cultures put their own palms together and bow. The new elbow bump is surprisingly fun. Not touching the other person with the body part you use to touch everything else doesn’t mean not greeting or touching each other at all.
And working from home: yes, it has disadvantages. In my workplace WFH has been a regular (voluntary) part of life at least since I started in 2015, I’m familiar with the pros and cons and how people react to it differently. I, for one, don’t like having to do it all the time and would be happier and more productive working mostly in an office environment. Still, I think working from home when having mild symptoms would be a lot better than showing up to an office environment and giving the sickness to people there. That would just lead to more sick people, more sick days and probably overall less happiness, productivity and profit than having the one symptomatic person work from home for a couple of days - even if the WFH days were less productive than office days.
I wasn’t advocating everyone move to WFH permanently.7 -
paperpudding wrote: »yes it is not impossible that occasionally test results get returned to wrong patient.
I have seen that occasionally too - not with covid, just in general - 2 patients have a very similar name and age or a form gets printed out from patient B's file and patient A takes it to get a blood test, result comes back under patient B.
obviously there are safeguards agaisnt this -but very occasionally one slips through.
This of course is not new. Long before COVID19 my test results went to my father, for a condition he does not have. (We attend the same doctor). Another time my wife got a phone call to come in and discuss some results that were not good, but she never had any tests!! Turns out that this doctor has three patients with the same name.4 -
I recently saw an interview with a CEO who was happy to have his employees WFH for as long as they want because they had seen no loss of productivity. This was even though the company had just finished buying and setting up new London offices that have sat empty so far.2
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MikePfirrman wrote: »CNN (I know some of you think it's a communist news network) had a segment on yesterday that scared the daylights out of me. It was a woman, in her 20s, that was a Machine Learning PhD scientist. First of all, you have to be flat out brilliant to do this kind of work. As an Executive Search consultant, I've placed people in this arena. They are way smarter than I will ever be. She couldn't work after like four months post Covid-19 because she couldn't think as clearly. She's getting better, but it's coming slow. She said she couldn't even focus on the plot of a movie post Covid-19 and was watching cartoons just to be able to follow a plot. That is terrifying to me. I make a living with my ability to think. Probably more terrifying to me than dying would be to lose my cognitive skills.
Just to add, and many more have alluded to this on this ongoing thread over time. If Covid-19 is affecting the brain, there's potential for long-term damage that we just simply can't predict. I know many scientists reexamining, right now, if bacterial infections can contribute to Alzheimer's. Lupus, they think, starts with a virus. B Breve, a common strain of bacteria found in your microbiome, has been found to rapidly improve early dementia (very recently).
When you have a virus that is clearly affecting the brain in some people, it's just another reason that it's clearly not "the flu or a cold".
First, stop watching CNN. Whether or not it is the Communist News Network, it's not a source of good information especially on the C19. Instead, I suggest you and everyone else watch information from actual doctors that are treating this illness. One of the sources that have been recognized in peer reviewed studies on quality information about C19 is the MedCram channel on Youtube that was a channel dedicated to providing training for medical professionals prior to this outbreak. They have provided over 100 COVID updates now. I highly recommend this channel. It requires a bit more from its viewers especially those that were chemistry and biology challenged in school, but it's still worth your time even if you were.
Having said that, the "long haulers" as they are called is a real phenomenon and not a rare one. Check out MedCram update 99
https://youtu.be/tFXr14xmuGw where Dr. Seheult reviews the data on long haulers and what they are facing. There are now peer reviewed studies emerging on the impact of C19 on people who have "recovered" and what the sequelae appear to be. Take a look, both at the update and the channel in general.
On the general topic of where you get your information, the news media, in a peer reviewed study about available information on C19, judged the information provided by them so bad it verged on disinformation. Same with hospitals. Individual Doctors were the best. Along with MedCram, I would say Dr. Mike Hansen and Dr John Campbell have provided quality information based mostly on peer reviewed studies or at least they cite their sources for everything they report on their channels so you are free to evaluate it yourself.
As one of my Epidemiologist friends points out, his scientific "proof" is in research journals and he's exhausted fighting those with their "proof" being from YouTube and Reddit.
I'm not dismissing him entirely. One of his videos is about Quercetin, Vit C and Zinc (not hydroxychlorquine). I believe there might be something to that, but I'm not a scientist and it's likely not the magic bullet and there's no conspiracy to hide the truth. That's where you and I significantly differ, I would imagine.
Dr Fauci has had to hire private security because his daughters' lives are being legitimately threatened by conspiracy theorists. That's completely nuts. A whole different level nuts. And those that tend to put this Gates, Fauci, Obama conspiracy forward are the same ones that believe in Pizzagate and the Democratic party is a front for pedophiles and child trafficking. These are way out there, nuts ideas. And it should be shut down because people (real scientists) are doing the work they have always done in unprecedented times where everyone thinks they're a scientist.
Your last paragraph is completely and utterly false. The Henry Ford study was seriously flawed. There was a VA study that found HXCQ to do more harm than good. A much larger study that didn't take out everyone with a heart problem or high BP (which is what the Henry Ford study did and put them all in the pool of those "not treated with HXCQ"). Of course they are going to have worse outcomes. That group was stacked with those that had serious heart issues or BP issues to begin with. HXCQ might have killed them. Brazil, ran by a guy also touting HXCQ, stopped their study dead in its tracks, because more harm than good was being done.
Your opinion is made up and no one will sway it. But it's not based on science. What I've seen is 3 studies that have said those watching Coronavirus on Conservative media have been fed a lot of disinformation.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-study-highlights-sources-of-misinformation
I hope that Zinc, Vit C, Vit D and Quercetin together are the magic bullet. I want my life back. I want YOU to have your life back. There's a study going on right now in Saudi Arabia evaluating this as a potential early treatment. Why Quercetin, not HXCQ? Because it's safer. And it's also a Zinc Ionophore.15 -
https://myfox8.com/news/bikers-descend-on-sturgis-rally-with-few-signs-of-pandemic/
I have passed through Sturgis during bike week (on two cross country trips - poor timing!) and the place is PACKED! I can’t even imagine this year...4 -
I don't know whether anyone is interested, but here's a pretty detailed analysis of a "superspreader event", specifically the contagion spike that happened here when the bars opened, and lots of unmasked young people descended on a popular college-town bar. (Same basic event I've previously linked news about, but this is a pretty thorough post-analysis that goes beyond anything previous.)
https://eastlansinginfo.news/new-data-show-how-the-harpers-superspreader-event-played-out/
I think there are some elements that could be of interest beyond locally, as there's an analysis of the demographics of the spread from primaries to secondaries, the geographic reach, a look at symptoms/results, etc. Overall, it's a graphic example of how a gathering can cause a big impact, when people act carelessly or recklessly.5 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »CNN (I know some of you think it's a communist news network) had a segment on yesterday that scared the daylights out of me. It was a woman, in her 20s, that was a Machine Learning PhD scientist. First of all, you have to be flat out brilliant to do this kind of work. As an Executive Search consultant, I've placed people in this arena. They are way smarter than I will ever be. She couldn't work after like four months post Covid-19 because she couldn't think as clearly. She's getting better, but it's coming slow. She said she couldn't even focus on the plot of a movie post Covid-19 and was watching cartoons just to be able to follow a plot. That is terrifying to me. I make a living with my ability to think. Probably more terrifying to me than dying would be to lose my cognitive skills.
Just to add, and many more have alluded to this on this ongoing thread over time. If Covid-19 is affecting the brain, there's potential for long-term damage that we just simply can't predict. I know many scientists reexamining, right now, if bacterial infections can contribute to Alzheimer's. Lupus, they think, starts with a virus. B Breve, a common strain of bacteria found in your microbiome, has been found to rapidly improve early dementia (very recently).
When you have a virus that is clearly affecting the brain in some people, it's just another reason that it's clearly not "the flu or a cold".
First, stop watching CNN. Whether or not it is the Communist News Network, it's not a source of good information especially on the C19. Instead, I suggest you and everyone else watch information from actual doctors that are treating this illness. One of the sources that have been recognized in peer reviewed studies on quality information about C19 is the MedCram channel on Youtube that was a channel dedicated to providing training for medical professionals prior to this outbreak. They have provided over 100 COVID updates now. I highly recommend this channel. It requires a bit more from its viewers especially those that were chemistry and biology challenged in school, but it's still worth your time even if you were.
Having said that, the "long haulers" as they are called is a real phenomenon and not a rare one. Check out MedCram update 99https://youtu.be/tFXr14xmuGw where Dr. Seheult reviews the data on long haulers and what they are facing. There are now peer reviewed studies emerging on the impact of C19 on people who have "recovered" and what the sequelae appear to be. Take a look, both at the update and the channel in general.
On the general topic of where you get your information, the news media, in a peer reviewed study about available information on C19, judged the information provided by them so bad it verged on disinformation. Same with hospitals. Individual Doctors were the best. Along with MedCram, I would say Dr. Mike Hansen and Dr John Campbell have provided quality information based mostly on peer reviewed studies or at least they cite their sources for everything they report on their channels so you are free to evaluate it yourself.
I think the agree/disagree (6/7) response to your above post drives home about 50% agree/disagree with you.
Tonight I was in the middle listening to a discussion on the best way of eating when it hit me science is stuck in the middle between religion and politics and now at the age of 69 I see both of them for the most part are pushing false narratives and both devolve back to money. I see the science that that talks about the best/right way to eat tend to devolve back to money. If I am in the cattle feed lot industry the science supports a high saturated fat way of eat. If I am in the seed oil industry the science supports a low saturated fat way of eating.
With COVID-19 there is NO settled science today to talk about so we are left with emotionalism devoid of science for the most part which as I see it putting science in between religion and politics.
COVID-19 is good for the net wealth of some and bad for the net wealth for others. Money seems to be the common denominator in the end of religion, science and politics based on my life experiences at the age of 69. There were times in my past when I worshiped all three but over the years I have come to see fallacies of all three. While two I can ignore for the most part but when it come to the science of how to eat for the best health outcomes I read what science has to offer but act on the results of my own n=1 results.
By 2030 there may be mostly settled science about COVID-19 but then we may be discussing COVID-29.
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moonangel12 wrote: »https://myfox8.com/news/bikers-descend-on-sturgis-rally-with-few-signs-of-pandemic/
I have passed through Sturgis during bike week (on two cross country trips - poor timing!) and the place is PACKED! I can’t even imagine this year...
What I've seen the expected crowd is down this year from 500-750k in recent years to 250k expected in 2020 due to the virus.1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Goodness, I don’t envy you having to enforce those rules, but good on you for trying.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Which practices? The ones that many parents taught their children while growing up? Wash your hands before eating. Cover your nose when you sneeze. Wash your hands after using the toilet. Cover your mouth when you cough. Wash your hands after touching money. Don't lie in bed with clothes you wore outdoors. By the way, did I mention wash your hands?
Why are normal civilized people no longer doing these things??
After returning to the office for 4 days this week, I’m pretty confident half my coworkers have spent their summer doing drugs or something else to wipe off all brain cells that carry learned human decency and guidelines. It has consistently always been the rule, first as general human decency and then as official HR policy, that you wash your hands with water and soap when you come in to any space from outdoors. We have hand sanitizer bottles all around the office, but at this point everyone should know water and soap are better and hand sanitizer should be used as complementary add-in or when proper hand-washing isn’t available. Some of the discussions I’ve had this week include:
”Please wash your hands first, you just came in from outside”
”But I only touched a few doorknobs”
”Still.” (Me in my head: yeah, you went outside, probably touched your face while smoking, and then used the doors and elevators in this 11-floor office building that has quite a lot of people)
”Please wash your hands with water and soap”
”But I’m using hand sanitizer”
”That’s great as an addition, but doesn’t replace soap”
”Huh, since when?”
”It never has...”
After referencing these discussions the CEO gave me permission to start giving personal office bans at my discretion for those who can’t or won’t follow the hygiene rules. At this point being allowed to leave home and come to work at the office is a privilege and those who don’t follow the rules to make it safe for others won’t be allowed to use it. If people want to ignore hygiene and safety rules, they can do it in the privacy of their own home where they won’t risk their colleagues. They just have to deal with focusing on work with their kids jumping around etc., but life is full of choices and everyone is welcome to continue working from home if hand-washing at the office is too much trouble.
Wow!! I wouldn't want to be the one sending workers back home, but I guess you need to take action if people are so dumb.
In our workplace there are handwashing signs everywhere, and extra taps and sinks have been installed. It is also mentioned at every huddle or staff meeting. It just simply is the new normal.
Masks, distancing, and temperature checks are also part of the daily routine. Everything is being done to protect everyone else and keep the workplace safe.
IMO, to be honest, if grown *kitten* adults need to be told to wash their hands the train has already left the station and no amount of HR signs and announcements will do any good.
Yep. The thing that bothers me most about those discussions is that the reaction isn’t ”oh crap I spaced out, will wash immediately” but instead some sort of complaining about not wanting to do it for reason X.
The rules are in place for a reason, and as head of HR I will be enforcing them. It’s not fair to let the few idiots run wild at the office and risk those who want to come in, focus on their work without at-home distractions, and follow the rules to keep themselves and everyone around the as safe as possible. The office is not a playground for misbehaving children, it’s a workplace where people should be able to be safe and focus on their work like adults.
From HR viewpoint, people get used to signs so fast they are only useful for a day or two, after that they’re really just virtue signaling that we care and have plans in place, and they show the right message for the few guests that do come in. I’m hoping I don’t have to start actually banning people, hopefully having 1-on-1 discussions about rules being enforced and bans being issued for further non-compliance is enough of a threat.
(Yeah, I probably shouldn’t call my colleagues idiots or misbehaving children, but I’m human and they’re risking my health too.)
As I’ve mentioned before, I have been aware of other people’s germ-spreading behaviors for a while now, due to periodically being on immune-suppressing medication. It’s not a surprise to me that most adults don’t wash their hands, won’t cover their mouths during a cough or sneeze, and are downright hostile if someone suggests that they should avoid others while symptomatic. I work from home and don’t go out much, and caught four separate colds last winter due to others. I can probably pinpoint the exact person who gave me each illness, since they typically came on two to four days after being near the child with fever and a cough lying down on a restaurant booth during an adult drinking party because “I couldn’t leave him with a sitter when he’s sick,” or the lady with a rattling chest cough not covering her mouth and bumping me from behind in line at the grocery. Or the young fireman staring vacantly into space coughing constantly not covering his mouth in the packet pickup tent at a race. In each case I removed myself from the vicinity as soon as I could and it wasn’t good enough. I don’t have servants, it’s not possible for me to avoid all other people, so when a substantial number of them are determined to spread illness, I get sick.
If this epidemic has any silver lining, I hope it is that it becomes much less socially acceptable to kill other people with your germs. Because doing this kills people, and not just when covid is around. Fragile elderly and immune compromised people exist at all times, and your fever and lingering cough may be someone else’s death sentence.
One of my kids was sick recently and a doctor had to get involved. We had a conversation and I told her, that even though I am a very conscientious person, I really used to feel that getting sick was inevitable with my little germ-nuggets. And that I didn't think twice on going around when I had sick kids at home. Complete thoughtlessness! But COVID has brought home that though I'm not currently sick, I could be a carrier and spread it to others outside the family. So I will definitely be more careful in the future when illness is in my family to not be a jerkface carelessly spreading it everywhere.
One of my friends has a prematurely born daughter with lugn issues so regular flus were extremely dangerous to her as a baby. They couldn’t take her anywhere with public transportation because of the infection risk and every invitation to their home included a ”stay the *kitten* away if you have any symptoms whatsoever” reminder. I admit that pre-covid I thought smaller symptoms like a runny nose or a little cough weren’t a reason to stay home and isolate if I felt otherwise fine and was able to go on about my regular day, and things like her case were the exception. In the future I will definitely stay home with smaller symptoms, and I hope this pandemic permanently changes the current (pre-covid) culture where showing up was more important than knowing when to not show up.
Now that many workplaces have tried working from home and seen it can be done, I hope in the future ”I feel like I might be getting sick” is a good enough reason to stay home and work from there without employers questioning it. Unrelated, I also hope handshaking will become a thing of the past.
Saw something recently in the Wall Street Journal that WFH isn't as good as advertised.
Also, i disagree and hope handshakes, fists bumps etc come back when this is behind us. People are social animals and an appropriate touch is part of that socialization.
This is the article discussing the perhaps WFH isn't as good on a long term basis. Fine for when people are sick IMO.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/companies-start-to-think-remote-work-isnt-so-great-after-all-11595603397
It's popping up behind a paywall now but I was able to read it a few days ago.
Headline:Companies Start to Think Remote Work Isn’t So Great After AllProjects take longer. Collaboration is harder. And training new workers is a struggle. ‘This is not going to be sustainable.’3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Goodness, I don’t envy you having to enforce those rules, but good on you for trying.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Which practices? The ones that many parents taught their children while growing up? Wash your hands before eating. Cover your nose when you sneeze. Wash your hands after using the toilet. Cover your mouth when you cough. Wash your hands after touching money. Don't lie in bed with clothes you wore outdoors. By the way, did I mention wash your hands?
Why are normal civilized people no longer doing these things??
After returning to the office for 4 days this week, I’m pretty confident half my coworkers have spent their summer doing drugs or something else to wipe off all brain cells that carry learned human decency and guidelines. It has consistently always been the rule, first as general human decency and then as official HR policy, that you wash your hands with water and soap when you come in to any space from outdoors. We have hand sanitizer bottles all around the office, but at this point everyone should know water and soap are better and hand sanitizer should be used as complementary add-in or when proper hand-washing isn’t available. Some of the discussions I’ve had this week include:
”Please wash your hands first, you just came in from outside”
”But I only touched a few doorknobs”
”Still.” (Me in my head: yeah, you went outside, probably touched your face while smoking, and then used the doors and elevators in this 11-floor office building that has quite a lot of people)
”Please wash your hands with water and soap”
”But I’m using hand sanitizer”
”That’s great as an addition, but doesn’t replace soap”
”Huh, since when?”
”It never has...”
After referencing these discussions the CEO gave me permission to start giving personal office bans at my discretion for those who can’t or won’t follow the hygiene rules. At this point being allowed to leave home and come to work at the office is a privilege and those who don’t follow the rules to make it safe for others won’t be allowed to use it. If people want to ignore hygiene and safety rules, they can do it in the privacy of their own home where they won’t risk their colleagues. They just have to deal with focusing on work with their kids jumping around etc., but life is full of choices and everyone is welcome to continue working from home if hand-washing at the office is too much trouble.
Wow!! I wouldn't want to be the one sending workers back home, but I guess you need to take action if people are so dumb.
In our workplace there are handwashing signs everywhere, and extra taps and sinks have been installed. It is also mentioned at every huddle or staff meeting. It just simply is the new normal.
Masks, distancing, and temperature checks are also part of the daily routine. Everything is being done to protect everyone else and keep the workplace safe.
IMO, to be honest, if grown *kitten* adults need to be told to wash their hands the train has already left the station and no amount of HR signs and announcements will do any good.
Yep. The thing that bothers me most about those discussions is that the reaction isn’t ”oh crap I spaced out, will wash immediately” but instead some sort of complaining about not wanting to do it for reason X.
The rules are in place for a reason, and as head of HR I will be enforcing them. It’s not fair to let the few idiots run wild at the office and risk those who want to come in, focus on their work without at-home distractions, and follow the rules to keep themselves and everyone around the as safe as possible. The office is not a playground for misbehaving children, it’s a workplace where people should be able to be safe and focus on their work like adults.
From HR viewpoint, people get used to signs so fast they are only useful for a day or two, after that they’re really just virtue signaling that we care and have plans in place, and they show the right message for the few guests that do come in. I’m hoping I don’t have to start actually banning people, hopefully having 1-on-1 discussions about rules being enforced and bans being issued for further non-compliance is enough of a threat.
(Yeah, I probably shouldn’t call my colleagues idiots or misbehaving children, but I’m human and they’re risking my health too.)
As I’ve mentioned before, I have been aware of other people’s germ-spreading behaviors for a while now, due to periodically being on immune-suppressing medication. It’s not a surprise to me that most adults don’t wash their hands, won’t cover their mouths during a cough or sneeze, and are downright hostile if someone suggests that they should avoid others while symptomatic. I work from home and don’t go out much, and caught four separate colds last winter due to others. I can probably pinpoint the exact person who gave me each illness, since they typically came on two to four days after being near the child with fever and a cough lying down on a restaurant booth during an adult drinking party because “I couldn’t leave him with a sitter when he’s sick,” or the lady with a rattling chest cough not covering her mouth and bumping me from behind in line at the grocery. Or the young fireman staring vacantly into space coughing constantly not covering his mouth in the packet pickup tent at a race. In each case I removed myself from the vicinity as soon as I could and it wasn’t good enough. I don’t have servants, it’s not possible for me to avoid all other people, so when a substantial number of them are determined to spread illness, I get sick.
If this epidemic has any silver lining, I hope it is that it becomes much less socially acceptable to kill other people with your germs. Because doing this kills people, and not just when covid is around. Fragile elderly and immune compromised people exist at all times, and your fever and lingering cough may be someone else’s death sentence.
One of my kids was sick recently and a doctor had to get involved. We had a conversation and I told her, that even though I am a very conscientious person, I really used to feel that getting sick was inevitable with my little germ-nuggets. And that I didn't think twice on going around when I had sick kids at home. Complete thoughtlessness! But COVID has brought home that though I'm not currently sick, I could be a carrier and spread it to others outside the family. So I will definitely be more careful in the future when illness is in my family to not be a jerkface carelessly spreading it everywhere.
One of my friends has a prematurely born daughter with lugn issues so regular flus were extremely dangerous to her as a baby. They couldn’t take her anywhere with public transportation because of the infection risk and every invitation to their home included a ”stay the *kitten* away if you have any symptoms whatsoever” reminder. I admit that pre-covid I thought smaller symptoms like a runny nose or a little cough weren’t a reason to stay home and isolate if I felt otherwise fine and was able to go on about my regular day, and things like her case were the exception. In the future I will definitely stay home with smaller symptoms, and I hope this pandemic permanently changes the current (pre-covid) culture where showing up was more important than knowing when to not show up.
Now that many workplaces have tried working from home and seen it can be done, I hope in the future ”I feel like I might be getting sick” is a good enough reason to stay home and work from there without employers questioning it. Unrelated, I also hope handshaking will become a thing of the past.
Saw something recently in the Wall Street Journal that WFH isn't as good as advertised.
Also, i disagree and hope handshakes, fists bumps etc come back when this is behind us. People are social animals and an appropriate touch is part of that socialization.
This is the article discussing the perhaps WFH isn't as good on a long term basis. Fine for when people are sick IMO.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/companies-start-to-think-remote-work-isnt-so-great-after-all-11595603397
It's popping up behind a paywall now but I was able to read it a few days ago.
Headline:Companies Start to Think Remote Work Isn’t So Great After AllProjects take longer. Collaboration is harder. And training new workers is a struggle. ‘This is not going to be sustainable.’
Re: training new workers. We had 4 new employees start during lockdown, and 4 started less than a month before lockdown started. All 4 who started during lockdown and completely from home said it was surprisingly easy and they felt actually more connected to their coworkers since Teams communication and video meetings require people to be more intentional and present than at the office where you can more easily ignore your surroundings. Apparently it’s also helpful to NOT meet everyone on your first day, because you can actually get to know colleagues one by one, and even in large meetings everyone automatically has their name displayed so there’s no awkwardness about being expected to remember the names of all 30 people you were introduced to on your first day.
2 of the workers who started just before lockdown are entry level. They struggled more because they need more hands-on guidance and training about the actual work than more experienced professionals, and they’re also less confident to speak up and ask in Teams if they’re struggling or need more advice.10 -
A thought regarding fist and elbow bumps. Are these the same fists that are connected to the hands we use for touching everything in our lives? Are these the same elbows we are taught to sneeze and cough into?
Just askin'. 11 -
A thought regarding fist and elbow bumps. Are these the same fists that are connected to the hands we use for touching everything in our lives? Are these the same elbows we are taught to sneeze and cough into?
Just askin'.
I’d like to see you sneeze into the outer edge of your elbow
most people use their palms for grabbing and touching things and sneeze into the inner bend in their elbow. That makes fist and elbow bumps a lot safer because those surfaces touch way less germs than palms that would touch during a handshake, but yeah, I get your point.
2 -
Fist and elbow bumps are safer than handshakes.
I have seen people doing virtual handshakes - ie where both shake the air in front of them without touching, preferably from a 1.5 m distance - I think that is best alternative.5 -
Well the pandemic rages on here in Tx. The past 2 weeks I have driven by some sports fields and seen them FULLY engaged with both teams and spectators. Nary a mask in sight and everyone as close as 2019.
Why?
Am I the only one who shudders. I could take a picture I suppose and it would not be some staged or picture from last year. They are really out there. I think adult leagues maybe? I see tennis tournies in my neighborhood also (and tennis maybe be ok if it's just 2 people but a tournament?).
The grocery store is 100% on mask compliance with almost everyone using them correctly, but what bothers me is that people are acting like it's normal times except for wearing a mask? They are out in family outings etc. I get that you can't lock down forever, but I dread my excursions to stores and try to limit the time I am in there if at all possible.
ANyway, I just keep keepin on in my little corner of the world. As far as remote work. I feel like there are both positives an negatives. I honestly would prefer to go into the office I think as my drive is not far. But not yet.9 -
SummerSkier wrote: »Well the pandemic rages on here in Tx. The past 2 weeks I have driven by some sports fields and seen them FULLY engaged with both teams and spectators. Nary a mask in sight and everyone as close as 2019.
Why?
Am I the only one who shudders. I could take a picture I suppose and it would not be some staged or picture from last year. They are really out there. I think adult leagues maybe? I see tennis tournies in my neighborhood also (and tennis maybe be ok if it's just 2 people but a tournament?).
The grocery store is 100% on mask compliance with almost everyone using them correctly, but what bothers me is that people are acting like it's normal times except for wearing a mask? They are out in family outings etc. I get that you can't lock down forever, but I dread my excursions to stores and try to limit the time I am in there if at all possible.
ANyway, I just keep keepin on in my little corner of the world. As far as remote work. I feel like there are both positives an negatives. I honestly would prefer to go into the office I think as my drive is not far. But not yet.
are masks mandatory outdoors in texas? here in Canada (Ontario) masks are mandatory indoors, but not outdoors, so I would never expect people on an outdoor sport field (or outdoors doing anything really) to be wearing masks.2 -
Went out last night to a Fox Restaurant concept (out of Tucson, which surprisingly is one of the top restaurant cities in the US). Fox owns Blanco Tacos (where we went last night), Zinburger, North, Wildflower and a few more concepts. They have locations in AZ and TX mostly. Sold right before the pandemic -- talk about great timing -- to Cheesecake Factory for 500 million. So all of these brands are coming, hopefully soon, to a larger city near you.
We sat on the patio at 106! It was extremely shaded and the misters were on. We also weren't the only ones on the patio for once. There were like seven or eight tables out there all well spaced apart. Lovely evening aside from the record heat month we're having. So ready for Fall and Winter here. Normally, our highs this time of year are around 96 or so, not 106 or 107.5 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »Well the pandemic rages on here in Tx. The past 2 weeks I have driven by some sports fields and seen them FULLY engaged with both teams and spectators. Nary a mask in sight and everyone as close as 2019.
Why?
Am I the only one who shudders. I could take a picture I suppose and it would not be some staged or picture from last year. They are really out there. I think adult leagues maybe? I see tennis tournies in my neighborhood also (and tennis maybe be ok if it's just 2 people but a tournament?).
The grocery store is 100% on mask compliance with almost everyone using them correctly, but what bothers me is that people are acting like it's normal times except for wearing a mask? They are out in family outings etc. I get that you can't lock down forever, but I dread my excursions to stores and try to limit the time I am in there if at all possible.
ANyway, I just keep keepin on in my little corner of the world. As far as remote work. I feel like there are both positives an negatives. I honestly would prefer to go into the office I think as my drive is not far. But not yet.
are masks mandatory outdoors in texas? here in Canada (Ontario) masks are mandatory indoors, but not outdoors, so I would never expect people on an outdoor sport field (or outdoors doing anything really) to be wearing masks.
I checked, and it appears that TX has the same kind of mandate IL does -- masks are required in public spaces and outdoors when social distancing is not possible. Based on the description, it sounds like she is saying people weren't social distancing.8 -
I know one thing to be true for me during this whole coronavirus situation; our house isn't nearly big enough.
7 -
A thought regarding fist and elbow bumps. Are these the same fists that are connected to the hands we use for touching everything in our lives? Are these the same elbows we are taught to sneeze and cough into?
Just askin'.
I’d like to see you sneeze into the outer edge of your elbow most people use their palms for grabbing and touching things and sneeze into the inner bend in their elbow. That makes fist and elbow bumps a lot safer because those surfaces touch way less germs than palms that would touch during a handshake, but yeah, I get your point.
If the person doesn't get the sneeze nestled directly into the elbow pit though there could be spillover to the outer edge. I've seen my 9-year-old do it: get mostly the outer top edge of the elbow and not all inside the pit. Frickin' yuck, kiddo! We'd like to think that all adults would be better at it, but since they don't know they need to wash their hands already despite a lifetime of being told, I don't hold out hope for the conscientiousness to suddenly manifest in a proper Drac-sneeze.
I do concede that the elbow bump is still magnitudes safer than grasping together people's body structures that touch all the things. Even the most unique human being is unlikely to touch their face with their elbow.
4 -
@MikePfirrman I tried to grab the fog but I mist.
Tell me more about the mist. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it for the 'Rona. Would misting actually spread those pesky 'Rona droplets as people are talking. 6
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