Coronavirus prep
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missysippy930 wrote: »I understand that the world economy is seriously at risk. What I can’t understand is people that are willing to risk their lives, loved ones lives, friends lives, and random strangers lives, because of reckless/selfish behavior. Please explain the justification. Economies can, and will be rebuilt.
I can understand it perfectly. Doesn't mean I like it, but I do understand it. There are several reasons:
- People think it will never happen to them. That's a known human trait. It even has a name (optimism bias).
- Being under stress can cause people to compartmentalize in an attempt to go back to their normal and familiar life. Another usually useful, but sometimes harmful, human trait. A way of coping with hardship is to convince yourself it's not serious or that's it's even good, or to busy your brain with other priorities. Coping is an important skill, but it can backfire (like in Stockholm syndrome).
- Humans are much better at prioritizing immediate concerns over possible future concerns. If someone's immediate pressing concern is their financial stability, they'll move potential infection down the priorities list and rationalize why their immediate concern is of bigger importance.
- Reclaiming control over your life. When people lose control over their lives they tend to want to reclaim it, even if it manifests in stupid ways like licking packages or refusing to take protective measures because "you can't tell me what to do".
- Conspiracy theories. The virus is new and the knowledge about it is new and incomplete. People need to know to feel in control. They may fall for conspiracy theories. Some people believe that this whole thing is a lie, for example. I've heard people say that world leaders have decided to orchestrate a grand act, each for certain gains. Some believe the virus does exist, but its consequences are overblown and used for political gain. When you firmly believe your loved ones are not at risk, you don't really believe your actions put their lives at risk.
I'm sure there are many other reasons, but it mainly boils down to the fact that the human brain has evolved to cope at all costs. It's a good thing that can backfire because it's not built on rationality.15 -
missysippy930 wrote: »I understand that the world economy is seriously at risk. What I can’t understand is people that are willing to risk their lives, loved ones lives, friends lives, and random strangers lives, because of reckless/selfish behavior. Please explain the justification. Economies can, and will be rebuilt.
I totally understand your point here, and agree that economies can be rebuilt. But the economy is not just about money and greed - it is also about an individual's ability to provide for their family. Without that ability to ensure families have the things they need, some will die not because of COVID19 directly, but because of the economic fallout from it. I don't think it's necessarily reckless or selfish behavior - it may also be a need to take care of loved ones that some are unable to do in the current lock-down situation.10 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »I understand that the world economy is seriously at risk. What I can’t understand is people that are willing to risk their lives, loved ones lives, friends lives, and random strangers lives, because of reckless/selfish behavior. Please explain the justification. Economies can, and will be rebuilt.
I can understand it perfectly. Doesn't mean I like it, but I do understand it. There are several reasons:
- People think it will never happen to them. That's a known human trait. It even has a name (optimism bias).
- Being under stress can cause people to compartmentalize in an attempt to go back to their normal and familiar life. Another usually useful, but sometimes harmful, human trait. A way of coping with hardship is to convince yourself it's not serious or that's it's even good, or to busy your brain with other priorities. Coping is an important skill, but it can backfire (like in Stockholm syndrome).
- Humans are much better at prioritizing immediate concerns over possible future concerns. If someone's immediate pressing concern is their financial stability, they'll move potential infection down the priorities list and rationalize why their immediate concern is of bigger importance.
- Reclaiming control over your life. When people lose control over their lives they tend to want to reclaim it, even if it manifests in stupid ways like licking packages or refusing to take protective measures because "you can't tell me what to do".
- Conspiracy theories. The virus is new and the knowledge about it is new and incomplete. People need to know to feel in control. They may fall for conspiracy theories. Some people believe that this whole thing is a lie, for example. I've heard people say that world leaders have decided to orchestrate a grand act, each for certain gains. Some believe the virus does exist, but its consequences are overblown and used for political gain. When you firmly believe your loved ones are not at risk, you don't really believe your actions put their lives at risk.
I'm sure there are many other reasons, but it mainly boils down to the fact that the human brain has evolved to cope at all costs. It's a good thing that can backfire because it's not built on rationality.
Maybe. For some. I guess I haven’t lived my life that way. Something wrong with my wiring.
But I still think (hope) there’s more people that aren’t that selfish. No one is an island, nor is immune. Good or bad, leadership definitely has an influence in this.5 -
corinasue1143 wrote: »Just curious. Why were barber shops among the first to open here, among the last in other states? Did our governor need a haircut and your governor has a private barber?
Just curious. Why do people need barbershops? I cut my own hair for 5 years, and my wife continued for the next 32 years after that. She never stopped during the lockdown.
Perhaps because they don't have and don't want to develop that skill set or just don't want to do it? I mean do you change the oil in you vehicles, do your own taxes, lawn care, home repairs, etc.? I'm pretty sure there is some service you are paying for that others not specifically trained to perform that function are doing just like you are cutting your own hair.7 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »I understand that the world economy is seriously at risk. What I can’t understand is people that are willing to risk their lives, loved ones lives, friends lives, and random strangers lives, because of reckless/selfish behavior. Please explain the justification. Economies can, and will be rebuilt.
I totally understand your point here, and agree that economies can be rebuilt. But the economy is not just about money and greed - it is also about an individual's ability to provide for their family. Without that ability to ensure families have the things they need, some will die not because of COVID19 directly, but because of the economic fallout from it. I don't think it's necessarily reckless or selfish behavior - it may also be a need to take care of loved ones that some are unable to do in the current lock-down situation.
That part of it I understand, but not the partying. The news has reports daily of people going to beaches. Not obeying social distancing. Other activities as well that don’t provide taking care of loved ones.
There’s places that had flattened, and downward curves, reopening (Wuhan, South Korea and Germany for example). Now uptick in cases.
I’m just one person that thinks this needs to be taken more seriously and people really need to take heed of professional advice and the people on the frontline caring for the people with this.10 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »corinasue1143 wrote: »Just curious. Why were barber shops among the first to open here, among the last in other states? Did our governor need a haircut and your governor has a private barber?
Just curious. Why do people need barbershops? I cut my own hair for 5 years, and my wife continued for the next 32 years after that. She never stopped during the lockdown.
Perhaps because they don't have and don't want to develop that skill set or just don't want to do it? I mean do you change the oil in you vehicles, do your own taxes, lawn care, home repairs, etc.? I'm pretty sure there is some service you are paying for that others not specifically trained to perform that function are doing just like you are cutting your own hair.
While I do get your point, I have done or have lived with people who have done everything on the list.
We did have someone come for the yearly sump pump service yesterday. However, we were easily able to maintain social distancing for that. My neighbors have been getting lawn service. Again, easily socially distant.
I'm anemic, just finished a month of bleeding, and could really benefit from an iron transfusion. However, I have decided going to the hospital at this time is not worth the risk. It's safer for me to rebuild my iron stores more slowly.
I just don't understand people clamoring for haircuts at this time - this puts you in close contact with someone not trained to use PPE who has been in close contact with many others not trained to use PPE, any of whom could be carrying the virus unknowingly.9 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
I just don't understand people clamoring for haircuts at this time - this puts you in close contact with someone not trained to use PPE who has been in close contact with many others not trained to use PPE, any of whom could be carrying the virus unknowingly.
I can get leaving the house for some non-essential stuff that is still potentially impacting health or quality of life (my husband got some dental work done yesterday, for example). I don't get doing that for a *haircut* and I'm someone who is really needing one right now.7 -
I'm in AZ and just saw a projection yesterday (I think mainly because we're on a rapid upward trajectory and have so many older people) that we will have an increase in deaths of 5000%. I think we're at 500 deaths now and they are predicting well over 5000 more.
Yet masks aren't required and restaurants opened over the weekend. People were standing in line at haircutting places, nail salons and spas. Most all didn't have masks.
I'm at the point now where if people want to die, you can't help them. I feel sorry that they have minimized the risk, ignored the science and now can't wait to "be free". I just don't think what will happen to them is as fun as they anticipate.
We will continue to shelter in place for the most part, eat at home (and I'm fortunate enough to have a career where I don't step out of the house).
The only ones I feel sorry for is the first responders and family members of those that continue to put everyone at risk for their "civil liberties".15 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »I'm in AZ and just saw a projection yesterday (I think mainly because we're on a rapid upward trajectory and have so many older people) that we will have an increase in deaths of 5000%. I think we're at 500 deaths now and they are predicting well over 5000 more.
Yet masks aren't required and restaurants opened over the weekend. People were standing in line at haircutting places, nail salons and spas. Most all didn't have masks.
I'm at the point now where if people want to die, you can't help them. I feel sorry that they have minimized the risk, ignored the science and now can't wait to "be free". I just don't think what will happen to them is as fun as they anticipate.
We will continue to shelter in place for the most part, eat at home (and I'm fortunate enough to have a career where I don't step out of the house).
The only ones I feel sorry for is the first responders and family members of those that continue to put everyone at risk for their "civil liberties".
The thing that frustrates me about this is that *we all* have to live with these people who don't care if they live or die (or act as if they don't). I can be doing everything I can, but I still have to leave the house for groceries sometimes and when I do I'm encountering these people who are not taking any precautions. Nothing is going to protect me from that. That's what is frustrating. If these people could live in their own bubble, I wouldn't be as frustrated. They don't. We have to live alongside them.
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It's a sad state of affairs but if it affects the children in greater numbers the parents might take it seriously, @MikePfirrman. Over the Mother's Day weekend there were all kinds of gatherings at homes and places. We watched carloads of people pile into a neighbor's place for a potluck.
Many don't believe it's real so they take chances like this one. Pesky tourists are all over the place just laying in wait showing us they can do whatever they want.
https://www.kbzk.com/news/local-news/woman-burned-by-thermal-feature-after-illegally-entering-yellowstone-national-park
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janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »I'm in AZ and just saw a projection yesterday (I think mainly because we're on a rapid upward trajectory and have so many older people) that we will have an increase in deaths of 5000%. I think we're at 500 deaths now and they are predicting well over 5000 more.
Yet masks aren't required and restaurants opened over the weekend. People were standing in line at haircutting places, nail salons and spas. Most all didn't have masks.
I'm at the point now where if people want to die, you can't help them. I feel sorry that they have minimized the risk, ignored the science and now can't wait to "be free". I just don't think what will happen to them is as fun as they anticipate.
We will continue to shelter in place for the most part, eat at home (and I'm fortunate enough to have a career where I don't step out of the house).
The only ones I feel sorry for is the first responders and family members of those that continue to put everyone at risk for their "civil liberties".
The thing that frustrates me about this is that *we all* have to live with these people who don't care if they live or die (or act as if they don't). I can be doing everything I can, but I still have to leave the house for groceries sometimes and when I do I'm encountering these people who are not taking any precautions. Nothing is going to protect me from that. That's what is frustrating. If these people could live in their own bubble, I wouldn't be as frustrated. They don't. We have to live alongside them.
This is why I feel like I'm going to be "staying at home" for the foreseeable future. Going grocery/essentials shopping first thing in the morning, no more than once a week. Ordering takeaway. Shopping online. Avoiding small shops that can't or don't bother to enforce distancing. To avoid all those people. Which stinks that some of us will have to go further out of our way than otherwise. Thanking the good Lord, the universe, and my employer daily that I'm able to work from home.
I'm just concerned about the rest of my family, and how typical family celebrations will be handled going forward. It's hard to imagine only seeing them when it's nice enough to sit outside at an appropriate distance. And if they decide to throw caution to the wind, do I decline Thanksgiving? Do I go since I'm being careful and their the ones I'm worried about anyway? <sigh>12 -
...janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: ».....
I'm just concerned about the rest of my family, and how typical family celebrations will be handled going forward. It's hard to imagine only seeing them when it's nice enough to sit outside at an appropriate distance. And if they decide to throw caution to the wind, do I decline Thanksgiving? Do I go since I'm being careful and their the ones I'm worried about anyway? <sigh>
The guilt about family gatherings is so, so real. I've got the only grandchildren so far for my family, and their grandparents understand our taking precautions, but they're rightfully disappointed we can't see them in person/can't go on the trips we were planning on. I've got one kid who has a couple of heart conditions. We just can't take that kind of risk.13 -
janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »I'm in AZ and just saw a projection yesterday (I think mainly because we're on a rapid upward trajectory and have so many older people) that we will have an increase in deaths of 5000%. I think we're at 500 deaths now and they are predicting well over 5000 more.
Yet masks aren't required and restaurants opened over the weekend. People were standing in line at haircutting places, nail salons and spas. Most all didn't have masks.
I'm at the point now where if people want to die, you can't help them. I feel sorry that they have minimized the risk, ignored the science and now can't wait to "be free". I just don't think what will happen to them is as fun as they anticipate.
We will continue to shelter in place for the most part, eat at home (and I'm fortunate enough to have a career where I don't step out of the house).
The only ones I feel sorry for is the first responders and family members of those that continue to put everyone at risk for their "civil liberties".
The thing that frustrates me about this is that *we all* have to live with these people who don't care if they live or die (or act as if they don't). I can be doing everything I can, but I still have to leave the house for groceries sometimes and when I do I'm encountering these people who are not taking any precautions. Nothing is going to protect me from that. That's what is frustrating. If these people could live in their own bubble, I wouldn't be as frustrated. They don't. We have to live alongside them.
I'm 69, and my spouse is 73. He had a mild stroke in early March, also had been ill for a week with some kind of fever/cough/weakness bug. He was tested and deemed positive for flu/type A when he was hospitalized, and when I was dealing with a sore throat and body aches & feeling chest tightness the following week I figured I probably had a mild case of flu too + maybe general anxiety causing the chest tightness. I didn't go to the dr. One, I hardly ever do unless there's arterial blood spurting, and two, I couldn't leave spouse home alone. We might both have had covid, actually (in the words of one of my physician friends, "a dog can have both ticks and fleas") or maybe not. Spouse is recovered (yay) and had a pacemaker inserted last month. So we're both vulnerable, and he's got additional risk factors.
All of this is to say that I totally relate to the frustration of living alongside folks who believe they are at low risk, & figure the downward trend of active covid mean they can go back to living as they did pre-pandemic. Those folks are going to keep us at home for the foreseeable future. When the restaurants finally open, and our favorite diner is calling our name, we won't go unless there is space in the outdoor seating area, or engage in any other activity where we will have sustained close contact except within our circle of friends/neighbors who are approaching taking responsibility for their health and those they care about similarly. It's just the way it's going to be for the next couple of years.
I've spent decades taking care of myself with the goal of living independently and in reasonably good health for as long as possible, and I'm not going to stop now. The mental health daily practice has been around being at peace with what is, and working to change what will be. There is nothing I can do to change the length of time to an effective and safe vaccine for covid or to stop it from mutating into something more deadly, but I can wear a mask when outside and grocery shop at the places were the staff and customers do the same.18 -
janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »I'm in AZ and just saw a projection yesterday (I think mainly because we're on a rapid upward trajectory and have so many older people) that we will have an increase in deaths of 5000%. I think we're at 500 deaths now and they are predicting well over 5000 more.
Yet masks aren't required and restaurants opened over the weekend. People were standing in line at haircutting places, nail salons and spas. Most all didn't have masks.
I'm at the point now where if people want to die, you can't help them. I feel sorry that they have minimized the risk, ignored the science and now can't wait to "be free". I just don't think what will happen to them is as fun as they anticipate.
We will continue to shelter in place for the most part, eat at home (and I'm fortunate enough to have a career where I don't step out of the house).
The only ones I feel sorry for is the first responders and family members of those that continue to put everyone at risk for their "civil liberties".
The thing that frustrates me about this is that *we all* have to live with these people who don't care if they live or die (or act as if they don't). I can be doing everything I can, but I still have to leave the house for groceries sometimes and when I do I'm encountering these people who are not taking any precautions. Nothing is going to protect me from that. That's what is frustrating. If these people could live in their own bubble, I wouldn't be as frustrated. They don't. We have to live alongside them.
I'm 69, and my spouse is 73. He had a mild stroke in early March, also had been ill for a week with some kind of fever/cough/weakness bug. He was tested and deemed positive for flu/type A when he was hospitalized, and when I was dealing with a sore throat and body aches & feeling chest tightness the following week I figured I probably had a mild case of flu too + maybe general anxiety causing the chest tightness. I didn't go to the dr. One, I hardly ever do unless there's arterial blood spurting, and two, I couldn't leave spouse home alone. We might both have had covid, actually (in the words of one of my physician friends, "a dog can have both ticks and fleas") or maybe not. Spouse is recovered (yay) and had a pacemaker inserted last month. So we're both vulnerable, and he's got additional risk factors.
All of this is to say that I totally relate to the frustration of living alongside folks who believe they are at low risk, & figure the downward trend of active covid mean they can go back to living as they did pre-pandemic. Those folks are going to keep us at home for the foreseeable future. When the restaurants finally open, and our favorite diner is calling our name, we won't go unless there is space in the outdoor seating area, or engage in any other activity where we will have sustained close contact except within our circle of friends/neighbors who are approaching taking responsibility for their health and those they care about similarly. It's just the way it's going to be for the next couple of years.
I've spent decades taking care of myself with the goal of living independently and in reasonably good health for as long as possible, and I'm not going to stop now. The mental health daily practice has been around being at peace with what is, and working to change what will be. There is nothing I can do to change the length of time to an effective and safe vaccine for covid or to stop it from mutating into something more deadly, but I can wear a mask when outside and grocery shop at the places were the staff and customers do the same.
I appreciate you sharing your experience. I agree with you that we should all do what we can to maximize our own safety. This is absolutely having an impact on where I choose to shop - some places do feel safer than others.3 -
CupcakeCrusoe wrote: »
...janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: ».....
I'm just concerned about the rest of my family, and how typical family celebrations will be handled going forward. It's hard to imagine only seeing them when it's nice enough to sit outside at an appropriate distance. And if they decide to throw caution to the wind, do I decline Thanksgiving? Do I go since I'm being careful and their the ones I'm worried about anyway? <sigh>
The guilt about family gatherings is so, so real. I've got the only grandchildren so far for my family, and their grandparents understand our taking precautions, but they're rightfully disappointed we can't see them in person/can't go on the trips we were planning on. I've got one kid who has a couple of heart conditions. We just can't take that kind of risk.
My OH's aunt is turning 90 this week. We are all filming clips to send to her.
My nephew's bar mitzvah was supposed to be this month. They postponed it once, to the fall, and again, to this time next year.4 -
I feel fortunate that the area I live in in So Cal (Riverside County), while being the county with the 2nd largest number of cases (Los Angeles being the highest), has taken this seriously since the beginning. We've been ordered to wear masks for the last month at least and I think it's paid off. While other counties are seeing increasing numbers, including hospitalizations, our numbers are leveling off and hospitalizations and ICU numbers are going down. It's tough to see people ignoring the best science and sort of flaunting their independence while making it more difficult for those of us who are doing our best to protect ourselves and others.
I waited 5 weeks to schedule hip replacement surgery until I felt confident that the hospital would be safe and that I wasn't taking up space or personnel that might be needed elsewhere. My hospital has only a few cases of C19 and their precautions against spread appear to be stellar. I'd rather wait a bit longer but there are no guarantees that things will improve from this point once things open up. In fact, they may get worse. My surgery is scheduled on the 27th. I'm looking forward to putting it behind me and hoping and praying that I've made the right decision.
Hubby does the shopping once a week and other than lab work and DR appointments I haven't been anywhere other than a couple of car rides. I honestly don't see us really doing much more than this for the foreseeable future until there is a vaccine. We have a small business but run it from home and even if things begin to open up we won't be exposed since it's a wholesale business and we never interact with the public. It would be nice to have some sales again though.................LOL My biggest regret is not being able to see my children and grandchildren
Take care of yourselves everyone and be careful out there!11 -
@janejellyroll - if it sounded like it, I didn't mean to minimize the impact that some will have on all of us. It's just, at this point, it's looking like the powers that be don't care or it's inconvenient to THEM.
I heard something yesterday that 30% of the population in the US, even if there's a vaccine, are so ignorant they won't take it. So I guess what I'm saying is Darwism is in full display right now in front of our very eyes. It will play out and the stupid are putting themselves (and the rest of us) at risk.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »I'm in AZ and just saw a projection yesterday (I think mainly because we're on a rapid upward trajectory and have so many older people) that we will have an increase in deaths of 5000%. I think we're at 500 deaths now and they are predicting well over 5000 more.
Yet masks aren't required and restaurants opened over the weekend. People were standing in line at haircutting places, nail salons and spas. Most all didn't have masks.
I'm at the point now where if people want to die, you can't help them. I feel sorry that they have minimized the risk, ignored the science and now can't wait to "be free". I just don't think what will happen to them is as fun as they anticipate.
We will continue to shelter in place for the most part, eat at home (and I'm fortunate enough to have a career where I don't step out of the house).
The only ones I feel sorry for is the first responders and family members of those that continue to put everyone at risk for their "civil liberties".
The thing that frustrates me about this is that *we all* have to live with these people who don't care if they live or die (or act as if they don't). I can be doing everything I can, but I still have to leave the house for groceries sometimes and when I do I'm encountering these people who are not taking any precautions. Nothing is going to protect me from that. That's what is frustrating. If these people could live in their own bubble, I wouldn't be as frustrated. They don't. We have to live alongside them.
Huh, here in my state of Massachusetts you are not allowed in stores without some sort of face covering. Municipalities made this an order some time ago and now it is state-wide.
https://www.mass.gov/news/wear-a-mask-in-public
...Governor Baker has issued an Order effective Wednesday, May 6 requiring face masks or cloth face coverings in public places where social distancing is not possible. This applies to both indoor and outdoor spaces....2 -
@fitlulu4150 Wishing you a stellar recovery, too. It's difficult not to squeeze our family members with hugs and kisses all around.
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kshama2001 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »I'm in AZ and just saw a projection yesterday (I think mainly because we're on a rapid upward trajectory and have so many older people) that we will have an increase in deaths of 5000%. I think we're at 500 deaths now and they are predicting well over 5000 more.
Yet masks aren't required and restaurants opened over the weekend. People were standing in line at haircutting places, nail salons and spas. Most all didn't have masks.
I'm at the point now where if people want to die, you can't help them. I feel sorry that they have minimized the risk, ignored the science and now can't wait to "be free". I just don't think what will happen to them is as fun as they anticipate.
We will continue to shelter in place for the most part, eat at home (and I'm fortunate enough to have a career where I don't step out of the house).
The only ones I feel sorry for is the first responders and family members of those that continue to put everyone at risk for their "civil liberties".
The thing that frustrates me about this is that *we all* have to live with these people who don't care if they live or die (or act as if they don't). I can be doing everything I can, but I still have to leave the house for groceries sometimes and when I do I'm encountering these people who are not taking any precautions. Nothing is going to protect me from that. That's what is frustrating. If these people could live in their own bubble, I wouldn't be as frustrated. They don't. We have to live alongside them.
Huh, here in my state of Massachusetts you are not allowed in stores without some sort of face covering. Municipalities made this an order some time ago and now it is state-wide.
https://www.mass.gov/news/wear-a-mask-in-public
...Governor Baker has issued an Order effective Wednesday, May 6 requiring face masks or cloth face coverings in public places where social distancing is not possible. This applies to both indoor and outdoor spaces....
But who is enforcing that? Store employees are not paid enough to act as security guards and confront angry customers who don't follow the rules. We have the same rule here in Illinois, but people can just walk right past the signs and no one's going to stop them.9
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