Coronavirus prep

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  • stevehenderson776
    stevehenderson776 Posts: 324 Member
    @rheddmobile I've been seeing pretty much the same thing at the school near me. It looks like they're staggering recess so it's just one class at a time. It must be like herding cats to keep all the kids 6 feet apart while playing. It doesn't look like the teachers are having a great success at it, which I really can't blame them for. 2 or 3 adults keeping perfect control of the personal space of 30 kids over a 4 acre field? The adults are losing that battle every single time.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    To steer the Rose Garden scenario towards a "prep" discussion.... DH and I are thinking of creating an outdoor living room in our carport. While it is really nice spending time outside now, we are thinking about December-January when our 2 college students will be living at home.

    Disease vector considerations:
    - short term: Both girls have excellent access to Covid testing and will test before returning home. They will isolate and retest, but that won't happen by Thanksgiving so we will be celebrating that outside. I think it will be nice. Different, but ok.
    - longer term: The 3rd sister will be teaching 7th graders up until Xmas eve practically, and the 3 will gather over the months everyone is in town. I learned from the first shelter in place that I just cannot keep them apart. They need each other more than ever with reduced social outlets. So they need a place to do that safely in more inclement weather.

    Air flow considerations:
    - The carport is open on one side (3-car) with walls on the other 3 sides. The walls alternate brick (load bearing) and wood panels with 2 foot gaps at ceiling and floor.

    In light of the Rose Garden, I'm seriously doubting that this space will provide enough air flow. Of course, experts speculate transmission was more likely during the subsequent indoor reception, but still, I wonder if it is enough and if the effort is worthwhile. Is anyone else doing anything similar?

    Restaurants around here are trying to come up with some sort of tent like option that might be similar.

    Here, for my own back yard, I just think it will be too cold for anything useable that's largely outdoors. I'm pretty worried about how this is going to be when it gets cold again.
    Changing the subject... twice recently I have run past playgrounds, at two different locations, which are now open and full of children from different households playing together, sharing slides and climbing tubes, hugging and wrestling, no masks, no distancing. Since schools are now open I guess parents figure they might as well throw caution to the winds? Since yesterday we had 115 new cases in the county, it’s making me a little angry that our governor and others are pretending this is over when it’s not.

    Public schools aren't open for in person schooling here yet, but there are various sports going on, and so I see groups of kids reasonably often. Some parents are doing pods where a smaller group of kids are getting together, but otherwise socially distancing, so perhaps (thinking positively) it's something like that?
    My mom, meanwhile, is desperate to get a flu shot, but the problem is she can’t get one without doing something much more risky than she has done previously - going to a building full of sick people and waiting for half an hour, then being within arm’s reach of a probably infected health care worker giving the shot. Since she’s completely isolated and isolation will prevent flu transmission as well as Covid, it is much less risky for her NOT to get a flu shot, but she’s hearing the news saying everyone should get one this year.

    Is there not the "make an appt at Walgreens" option there?

    The Walgreens around here don't advertise appointments but to be honest I never really checked if you could get an appointment. I went in and got mine about 8PM on a Sunday night, nobody around, in and out in 5 minutes.

    Similar here (west TN)... I haven't heard anything about appointments, but went to the local Walgreens around 6p yesterday and was able to get a flu shot with little wait. I didn't even think about an appointment. I just went when I can and took the chance as to whether I get poked by the pretty pharmacist this year.
  • stevehenderson776
    stevehenderson776 Posts: 324 Member
    @jo_nz An interesting approach. In Ontario (and probably in all of Canada) it's a self-isolation system for travellers and people who have a COVID diagnosis or COVID like symptoms. I don't believe it would be constitutional to require patients to stay in a particular facility until released here.

    Here (U.S.), adult patients have a whole lot of latitude to refuse treatment as long as they are of sound mind. However, people who are considered a threat to themselves or others may be held against their own wishes. I am not a constitutional law expert, but someone who has Covid and refuses to isolate or even wear a mask sounds like someone who is a threat to others.

    If they refuse to isolate, sure. Here if you have it and leave your home then you're subject to a hefty fine. If you continue then you can be detained and held. I've only heard of a few cases of it getting as far as the fine though. Mostly everyone is compliant with the isolation rules.
    My concern with an involuntary detainment is that it would likely cause some people with covid like symptoms not to seek testing and treatment over fears of being detained afterwards.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    @jo_nz An interesting approach. In Ontario (and probably in all of Canada) it's a self-isolation system for travellers and people who have a COVID diagnosis or COVID like symptoms. I don't believe it would be constitutional to require patients to stay in a particular facility until released here.

    Here (U.S.), adult patients have a whole lot of latitude to refuse treatment as long as they are of sound mind. However, people who are considered a threat to themselves or others may be held against their own wishes. I am not a constitutional law expert, but someone who has Covid and refuses to isolate or even wear a mask sounds like someone who is a threat to others.

    If they refuse to isolate, sure. Here if you have it and leave your home then you're subject to a hefty fine. If you continue then you can be detained and held. I've only heard of a few cases of it getting as far as the fine though. Mostly everyone is compliant with the isolation rules.
    My concern with an involuntary detainment is that it would likely cause some people with covid like symptoms not to seek testing and treatment over fears of being detained afterwards.

    Those are the people who will go out and infect everyone else whether they have or have not been tested. The outcome is no different, except no testing means the numbers look better in total. If that is a big group, then maybe it could make a big difference on total numbers. The fact that they go out and spread it doesn't change simply because they didn't want the government to find out they had it.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    To steer the Rose Garden scenario towards a "prep" discussion.... DH and I are thinking of creating an outdoor living room in our carport. While it is really nice spending time outside now, we are thinking about December-January when our 2 college students will be living at home.

    Disease vector considerations:
    - short term: Both girls have excellent access to Covid testing and will test before returning home. They will isolate and retest, but that won't happen by Thanksgiving so we will be celebrating that outside. I think it will be nice. Different, but ok.
    - longer term: The 3rd sister will be teaching 7th graders up until Xmas eve practically, and the 3 will gather over the months everyone is in town. I learned from the first shelter in place that I just cannot keep them apart. They need each other more than ever with reduced social outlets. So they need a place to do that safely in more inclement weather.

    Air flow considerations:
    - The carport is open on one side (3-car) with walls on the other 3 sides. The walls alternate brick (load bearing) and wood panels with 2 foot gaps at ceiling and floor.

    In light of the Rose Garden, I'm seriously doubting that this space will provide enough air flow. Of course, experts speculate transmission was more likely during the subsequent indoor reception, but still, I wonder if it is enough and if the effort is worthwhile. Is anyone else doing anything similar?

    Restaurants around here are trying to come up with some sort of tent like option that might be similar.

    Here, for my own back yard, I just think it will be too cold for anything useable that's largely outdoors. I'm pretty worried about how this is going to be when it gets cold again.
    Changing the subject... twice recently I have run past playgrounds, at two different locations, which are now open and full of children from different households playing together, sharing slides and climbing tubes, hugging and wrestling, no masks, no distancing. Since schools are now open I guess parents figure they might as well throw caution to the winds? Since yesterday we had 115 new cases in the county, it’s making me a little angry that our governor and others are pretending this is over when it’s not.

    Public schools aren't open for in person schooling here yet, but there are various sports going on, and so I see groups of kids reasonably often. Some parents are doing pods where a smaller group of kids are getting together, but otherwise socially distancing, so perhaps (thinking positively) it's something like that?
    My mom, meanwhile, is desperate to get a flu shot, but the problem is she can’t get one without doing something much more risky than she has done previously - going to a building full of sick people and waiting for half an hour, then being within arm’s reach of a probably infected health care worker giving the shot. Since she’s completely isolated and isolation will prevent flu transmission as well as Covid, it is much less risky for her NOT to get a flu shot, but she’s hearing the news saying everyone should get one this year.

    Is there not the "make an appt at Walgreens" option there?

    The Walgreens around here don't advertise appointments but to be honest I never really checked if you could get an appointment. I went in and got mine about 8PM on a Sunday night, nobody around, in and out in 5 minutes.

    I think the appointments might be new this year, bc of covid.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,092 Member
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    To steer the Rose Garden scenario towards a "prep" discussion.... DH and I are thinking of creating an outdoor living room in our carport. While it is really nice spending time outside now, we are thinking about December-January when our 2 college students will be living at home.

    Disease vector considerations:
    - short term: Both girls have excellent access to Covid testing and will test before returning home. They will isolate and retest, but that won't happen by Thanksgiving so we will be celebrating that outside. I think it will be nice. Different, but ok.
    - longer term: The 3rd sister will be teaching 7th graders up until Xmas eve practically, and the 3 will gather over the months everyone is in town. I learned from the first shelter in place that I just cannot keep them apart. They need each other more than ever with reduced social outlets. So they need a place to do that safely in more inclement weather.

    Air flow considerations:
    - The carport is open on one side (3-car) with walls on the other 3 sides. The walls alternate brick (load bearing) and wood panels with 2 foot gaps at ceiling and floor.

    In light of the Rose Garden, I'm seriously doubting that this space will provide enough air flow. Of course, experts speculate transmission was more likely during the subsequent indoor reception, but still, I wonder if it is enough and if the effort is worthwhile. Is anyone else doing anything similar?

    Is there any way you could set up a fan that would pull air toward the ceiling?
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited October 2020
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    To steer the Rose Garden scenario towards a "prep" discussion.... DH and I are thinking of creating an outdoor living room in our carport. While it is really nice spending time outside now, we are thinking about December-January when our 2 college students will be living at home.

    Disease vector considerations:
    - short term: Both girls have excellent access to Covid testing and will test before returning home. They will isolate and retest, but that won't happen by Thanksgiving so we will be celebrating that outside. I think it will be nice. Different, but ok.
    - longer term: The 3rd sister will be teaching 7th graders up until Xmas eve practically, and the 3 will gather over the months everyone is in town. I learned from the first shelter in place that I just cannot keep them apart. They need each other more than ever with reduced social outlets. So they need a place to do that safely in more inclement weather.

    Air flow considerations:
    - The carport is open on one side (3-car) with walls on the other 3 sides. The walls alternate brick (load bearing) and wood panels with 2 foot gaps at ceiling and floor.

    In light of the Rose Garden, I'm seriously doubting that this space will provide enough air flow. Of course, experts speculate transmission was more likely during the subsequent indoor reception, but still, I wonder if it is enough and if the effort is worthwhile. Is anyone else doing anything similar?

    Is there any way you could set up a fan that would pull air toward the ceiling?

    It sounds OK to me. You might invest in a whole room air filter with UV (around $100) as well, but seems like most of what you're doing is sound. Not that I'm 100% sure that those air purifiers work on Covid-19, it just might give you more piece of mind. My son will likely come home for Thanksgiving. He's the only one. We'll ask him to ensure he's not around all his friends for the last week before he comes. He has to interact with people as part of his job but only with a mask on. It's a risk, for sure, but not one we're not willing to take to see him.

    But there won't be any large gathering this year. Also, we will give Halloween candy to a younger neighbor so they can give it out. This will be the first year I won't hand it out directly.

    I am concerned about Halloween, Thanksgiving and the subsequent Holidays, along with flu season. It will be very tricky to navigate.
  • ahoy_m8
    ahoy_m8 Posts: 3,053 Member
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    To steer the Rose Garden scenario towards a "prep" discussion.... DH and I are thinking of creating an outdoor living room in our carport. While it is really nice spending time outside now, we are thinking about December-January when our 2 college students will be living at home.

    Disease vector considerations:
    - short term: Both girls have excellent access to Covid testing and will test before returning home. They will isolate and retest, but that won't happen by Thanksgiving so we will be celebrating that outside. I think it will be nice. Different, but ok.
    - longer term: The 3rd sister will be teaching 7th graders up until Xmas eve practically, and the 3 will gather over the months everyone is in town. I learned from the first shelter in place that I just cannot keep them apart. They need each other more than ever with reduced social outlets. So they need a place to do that safely in more inclement weather.

    Air flow considerations:
    - The carport is open on one side (3-car) with walls on the other 3 sides. The walls alternate brick (load bearing) and wood panels with 2 foot gaps at ceiling and floor.

    In light of the Rose Garden, I'm seriously doubting that this space will provide enough air flow. Of course, experts speculate transmission was more likely during the subsequent indoor reception, but still, I wonder if it is enough and if the effort is worthwhile. Is anyone else doing anything similar?

    Is there any way you could set up a fan that would pull air toward the ceiling?

    Yes, definitely ways to do that. I do think it would help!
  • ahoy_m8
    ahoy_m8 Posts: 3,053 Member
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    To steer the Rose Garden scenario towards a "prep" discussion.... DH and I are thinking of creating an outdoor living room in our carport. While it is really nice spending time outside now, we are thinking about December-January when our 2 college students will be living at home.

    Disease vector considerations:
    - short term: Both girls have excellent access to Covid testing and will test before returning home. They will isolate and retest, but that won't happen by Thanksgiving so we will be celebrating that outside. I think it will be nice. Different, but ok.
    - longer term: The 3rd sister will be teaching 7th graders up until Xmas eve practically, and the 3 will gather over the months everyone is in town. I learned from the first shelter in place that I just cannot keep them apart. They need each other more than ever with reduced social outlets. So they need a place to do that safely in more inclement weather.

    Air flow considerations:
    - The carport is open on one side (3-car) with walls on the other 3 sides. The walls alternate brick (load bearing) and wood panels with 2 foot gaps at ceiling and floor.

    In light of the Rose Garden, I'm seriously doubting that this space will provide enough air flow. Of course, experts speculate transmission was more likely during the subsequent indoor reception, but still, I wonder if it is enough and if the effort is worthwhile. Is anyone else doing anything similar?

    Is there any way you could set up a fan that would pull air toward the ceiling?

    It sounds OK to me. You might invest in a whole room air filter with UV (around $100) as well, but seems like most of what you're doing is sound. Not that I'm 100% sure that those air purifiers work on Covid-19, it just might give you more piece of mind. My son will likely come home for Thanksgiving. He's the only one. We'll ask him to ensure he's not around all his friends for the last week before he comes. He has to interact with people as part of his job but only with a mask on. It's a risk, for sure, but not one we're not willing to take to see him.

    But there won't be any large gathering this year. Also, we will give Halloween candy to a younger neighbor so they can give it out. This will be the first year I won't hand it out directly.

    I am concerned about Halloween, Thanksgiving and the subsequent Holidays, along with flu season. It will be very tricky to navigate.

    Thanks for your take. Appreciate it a ton. We actually have a UV HEPA air filter unit. Hadn’t thought of using it in the carport. Maybe we should get one for each bedroom, as the kids isolate in their rooms.

    Wishing you the best with your son. In a way, I’m less concerned about their contacts before coming home than the long 2 months at home. Once their initial isolation is over, they will still want to have some contact with friends during that time, and outdoors will be harder to do. The sister who is a 7th grade math teacher is flat out exposed. It’s already tricky!
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,281 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    Here in Australia, people coming from overseas are put into hotel supervised quarantine for 2 weeks.
    People travelling from some states into other states - self isolation at home for 2 weeks.
    Police can and do randomly check that you are doing so.

    anyone getting tested - self isolation at home until test result (usually next day results)

    anyone positive - self isolation at home for 2 weeks. (unless hospitalised, of course - then complete the 2 weeks after discharge)

    Self isolation means you stay at home and do not mix with other people masked or not. You stay in your own home, you do not go out in cars or public promotions and nobody visits you.

    What Trump is doing post discharge would certainly not be allowed here.

    No political statement - just facts about Covid rules.

    Not that I am from australia, but from a story about a woman there, even state to state requires the hotel isolation as one end is likely not your second home. And the two week hotel cost is on the individual's dime. The story that I read was about a women who was supposed to fly to her boyfriend and hotel quarantine first and then instead skipped the flight where should could be tracked and hitch hiked directly to her boyfriend and avoid the quarentine and its cost. Or at least, that was the spin in the article.


    The international incomers quarantining for 2 weeks in supervised hotels is national across Australia; the state rules about interstate incomers vary between states, that is true
    As the Covid situation itself varies greatly between states.

    The hotel accomodation was initially paid for by the govt and all overseas citizens had until x date to return and have accomodation paid for.

    anyone returning after that date, must pay for their hotel accommodation themselves.

    Have not heard of case you mention so cant comment on that.

    There have, as in all countries, I suppose, been a few stupid people breaking the travel restriction rules.

  • SModa61
    SModa61 Posts: 3,098 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    Here in Australia, people coming from overseas are put into hotel supervised quarantine for 2 weeks.
    People travelling from some states into other states - self isolation at home for 2 weeks.
    Police can and do randomly check that you are doing so.

    anyone getting tested - self isolation at home until test result (usually next day results)

    anyone positive - self isolation at home for 2 weeks. (unless hospitalised, of course - then complete the 2 weeks after discharge)

    Self isolation means you stay at home and do not mix with other people masked or not. You stay in your own home, you do not go out in cars or public promotions and nobody visits you.

    What Trump is doing post discharge would certainly not be allowed here.

    No political statement - just facts about Covid rules.

    Not that I am from australia, but from a story about a woman there, even state to state requires the hotel isolation as one end is likely not your second home. And the two week hotel cost is on the individual's dime. The story that I read was about a women who was supposed to fly to her boyfriend and hotel quarantine first and then instead skipped the flight where should could be tracked and hitch hiked directly to her boyfriend and avoid the quarentine and its cost. Or at least, that was the spin in the article.


    The international incomers quarantining for 2 weeks in supervised hotels is national across Australia; the state rules about interstate incomers vary between states, that is true
    As the Covid situation itself varies greatly between states.

    The hotel accomodation was initially paid for by the govt and all overseas citizens had until x date to return and have accomodation paid for.

    anyone returning after that date, must pay for their hotel accommodation themselves.

    Have not heard of case you mention so cant comment on that.

    There have, as in all countries, I suppose, been a few stupid people breaking the travel restriction rules.

    Nice that your government was paying for their overseas citizens' returns. As for the crazy woman, this is not the article I originally saw, but another covering the same story that I found. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53903498
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    edited October 2020
    kushiel1 wrote: »
    Can we not talk about Trump anymore? It's very hard to discuss him without it becoming at least somewhat political and quite frankly this is not the place for politics (regardless of your views).

    This is obviously one of the biggest current US impacts of Corona. I think it's working well so far -- people who feel like they can't discuss this without getting obviously political are clearly restraining themselves (or just commenting other places online). I think it's okay to MENTION that the leader of our country has been diagnosed with this illness and it isn't necessarily going to get political beyond that.

    That Trump and many members of his inner circle have now been diagnosed is going to influence how people approach this for the fall and winter, probably both for better and worse. Urging others to ignore the basic facts of the situation for the sake of "avoiding politics" is, in and of itself, a blatantly political choice.

    Speaking of the inner circle, from what I consider to be a fairly centrist source:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/10/06/trump-adviser-stephen-miller-tests-positive-for-covid-19/#1e0cbba01d60

    Trump Adviser Stephen Miller Tests Positive For Covid-19

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/10/06/joint-chiefs-of-staff-quarantining-after-top-coast-guard-official-tests-positive-for-covid-19/#6efd3ecf30fa

    The country’s top military leader, Gen. Mark Milley, and other members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are quarantining after the Coast Guard’s second-in-command tested positive for Covid-19 amid a worsening outbreak on Capitol Hill.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,203 Member
    Here in Australia, people coming from overseas are put into hotel supervised quarantine for 2 weeks.
    People travelling from some states into other states - self isolation at home for 2 weeks.
    Police can and do randomly check that you are doing so.

    anyone getting tested - self isolation at home until test result (usually next day results)

    anyone positive - self isolation at home for 2 weeks. (unless hospitalised, of course - then complete the 2 weeks after discharge)

    Self isolation means you stay at home and do not mix with other people masked or not. You stay in your own home, you do not go out in cars or public promotions and nobody visits you.

    What Trump is doing post discharge would certainly not be allowed here.

    No political statement - just facts about Covid rules.

    Out of curiosity, @paperpudding, about the bolded: If someone gets a test for other reasons than symptoms or exposure, are they still required to isolate until results arrive? (For example, I had a test recently because it was required before my scheduled colonoscopy - I hadn't been in contact with anyone with Covid that anyone knew of, no symptoms, hadn't traveled, etc. - pure precaution.) Or is it that testing isn't done there unless symptomatic or exposed or something that those that would cause worry?
  • Copper_Boom
    Copper_Boom Posts: 85 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    on holidays,

    -Halloween, i am making goodie bags 2 weeks in advance and quarantining them in boxes. then hopefully the weather is kind and I am going to set up a table at the end go the driveway. I am going to have hand sanitizing supplies setup and available, and I have skeleton salad tongs to dole out the bags. If no one comes, I will have confessions coming in my MFP diary afterwards. :P last year we had 76 kids. No COVID but also not a Saturday.

    I like your idea about Halloween. It is more effort into being safe than I expect most will put in. My neighborhood Facebook page indicates many will be taking their children trick-or-treating as usual this year, and see masks as sufficient. I made the mistake of remarking that trick or treating may not be prudent this year and no one agreed (at least publicly). I would rather turn off my porch light and just be the neighborhood grinch, but maybe putting a bowl of candy out on the porch is a lower effort compromise to appease the self-appointed Guardians of a Normal Halloween.
  • ReenieHJ
    ReenieHJ Posts: 9,724 Member
    Everybody's talking about testing but call me skeptical. Exactly how reliable are the tests?? I hear so much about false positives/negatives or where they test negative this day but positive the next or vice versa. :( I guess I'm not putting all my faith in every test of positive/negative that I hear about. :(
  • SModa61
    SModa61 Posts: 3,098 Member
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    Everybody's talking about testing but call me skeptical. Exactly how reliable are the tests?? I hear so much about false positives/negatives or where they test negative this day but positive the next or vice versa. :( I guess I'm not putting all my faith in every test of positive/negative that I hear about. :(

    I totally agree. I was shocking by the info I had stumbled on like a week and a half ago and the level of accuracy or inaccuracy. I was looking due to approaching holidays and potential travels to our florida condo, trying to see if tests could broaden our options. We decided that we will likely stay with the quarentine route.
  • missysippy930
    missysippy930 Posts: 2,577 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    Massachusetts Governor Baker announced that he is not canceling Halloween this year, and this is what he said. “And the reason we’re not canceling Halloween is because that would have turned into thousands of indoor Halloween parties, which would have been a heck of a lot worse for public safety and for the spread of the virus than outdoor, organized, and supervised trick-or-treating.”

    He’s probably right, but if I had a child that age, I’d probably arrange some kind of virtual trick or treating event. Let them dress up, get treats they want, and hope for back to normal next year. Make it a special day and avoid possible exposure to other people you have no idea whether or not they’ve been exposed. It’s sad, but so many people have had to lose out on special events this year. With all the holidays coming up, a lot of occasions are going to be very different for many of us. 😷