Coronavirus prep
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I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
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snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »It seems that the reason for not wearing a mask is "America was born in rebellion and it's a spirit that still runs deep in its character." So the country is in a perpetual infantile immature stage....
America's mask resistance is just the latest example of a perennial struggle
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/world/meanwhile-in-america-june-23-intl/index.html
@Gisel2015 thanks for sharing the the term Perennial Struggle. I just now ordered the book by that title from Amazon.
Posts sometimes reflect a perpetual infantile immaturity sounding like a 4 year old kid trying to tell another 4 year old how they should be acting or they will tell on them.
There are the anitvaxers and provaxers, the anitseatbelters and proseatbelters, the antimaskers and promaskers, and anti and pro groups on many subjects. What gets me is the perpetual infantile immaturity of the anti and pro groups that think it is okay to slam the other side as if they are superior to the other group because of their belief system like they are 4 years old kids fighting. On the road where the speed limit is 55 one can hear to ones driving 50 slamming those driving 60 as speeders who in turn refer to those driving 50 as slow pokes causing needless accidents.
I expect the book to be helpful in understanding the minds of both the anti and pro groups.
I think it's absolutely ridiculous to equate people who are pro-vaccination and people who are anti-vaccination like they're somehow equivalent points of view that have equal support. Statement: people who choose to vaccinate themselves and the children they care for against dangerous illnesses are superior in some specific areas: when it comes to their ability to evaluate evidence, minimize risks, and behave as good citizens.
And I think you can say the same thing about those who are currently following public health guidance to wear masks in public places.
(Obviously, this doesn't apply to people who have legitimate medical reasons they can't vaccinate or wear a mask, they're just another reason why the rest of us should do what we can to help keep them safe).16 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »It seems that the reason for not wearing a mask is "America was born in rebellion and it's a spirit that still runs deep in its character." So the country is in a perpetual infantile immature stage....
America's mask resistance is just the latest example of a perennial struggle
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/world/meanwhile-in-america-june-23-intl/index.html
@Gisel2015 thanks for sharing the the term Perennial Struggle. I just now ordered the book by that title from Amazon.
Posts sometimes reflect a perpetual infantile immaturity sounding like a 4 year old kid trying to tell another 4 year old how they should be acting or they will tell on them.
There are the anitvaxers and provaxers, the anitseatbelters and proseatbelters, the antimaskers and promaskers, and anti and pro groups on many subjects. What gets me is the perpetual infantile immaturity of the anti and pro groups that think it is okay to slam the other side as if they are superior to the other group because of their belief system like they are 4 years old kids fighting. On the road where the speed limit is 55 one can hear to ones driving 50 slamming those driving 60 as speeders who in turn refer to those driving 50 as slow pokes causing needless accidents.
I expect the book to be helpful in understanding the minds of both the anti and pro groups.
In all the disputes you mention specifically, the pro- side belief is based on facts and science. I cannot comment on your claim that people feel superior on either side. I do not observe that. What I observe is that some people respect facts and science and find them convincing and are sad to see people endanger themselves and others as a result of rejecting facts and science. Feeling sad (or angry) to see avoidable harm come to fellow humans is not the same as feeling superior.8 -
"the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it".
There are just so many things wrong with this statement. There is no definitive evidence which suggests you cannot catch it more than once. There is also an huge unknown about LONG term chronic effects of this disease on people.
Yeah sometimes I wonder if everyone is eventually going to catch it also, but I do not think that is the preferred method of overcoming pandemics which kill.
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autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
*Sigh*
You must be young and have no older relatives.
You must not understand how pandemics (endemics) work. This one we know very little about, so hold your horses there.
You must think your angels can fly pretty daggone fast.18 -
Many people felt uncomfortable with the seat belt, especially when the over shoulder part came in. Many people refused to wear them in my parents generation. Some people would take the shoulderpart and put it over their shoulders and not latch it so they could go without. I don't think that proves anything much, just the facts about how humans are sometimes.
Death Wishes maybe? maybe that is what makes some people refuse to do the things mandated to keep us alive.
@ElioraFR Death Wishes is kind of a blast from the past. Freud was never my favorite doctor but it is not hard to see how he drew some of his conclusions about the forces that may drive basic low level behavior in humans.
https://verywellmind.com/life-and-death-instincts-2795847?utm_source=emailshare&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mobilesharebutton2
Freud's Theories of Life and Death Instincts
By Kendra Cherry Fact checked by James Lacy on April 04, 20201 -
SummerSkier wrote: »"the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it".
There are just so many things wrong with this statement. There is no definitive evidence which suggests you cannot catch it more than once. There is also an huge unknown about LONG term chronic effects of this disease on people.
Yeah sometimes I wonder if everyone is eventually going to catch it also, but I do not think that is the preferred method of overcoming pandemics which kill.
I don't think I'm the only person who is hoping that I never catch it. It sounds like it can be truly terrible and we have no good way to know if we're going to coast through asymptomatically, with a mild case, be knocked for a loop for weeks, or even worse. I'm actively trying to avoid this thing (and am fortunate enough to have a job where I can effectively isolate).16 -
rheddmobile wrote: »So, for background, in my county our floating average of daily cases has more than doubled, hospitalizations have more than doubled, and positivity rate has more than doubled. We are a hot spot in a hot state, getting worse daily.
I did my two weeks shopping and chores for my own household and my mother today. I am so fed up and frustrated with people. We did a pickup at Kroger. As usual they didn’t bother to get half the stuff, so my husband had to go in, where the stuff they were supposedly out of was readily available on shelves. The guy who brought our stuff out wasn’t wearing a mask. Local ordinance says he has to. My husband asked where his mask was, and he said, “Oh, they want us to wear them, but I’m not worried about it. I don’t feel sick and I haven’t been anywhere.”
So my husband had to have a talk with his manager. Who claimed to be appalled. But then he spotted the same manager talking to a stocker with his mask over his chin. Zero masks on customers.
Next, Walgreens. Masks on everyone working there, but chin only. No masks on customers.
Then trying to get an octagenerian to operate zoom. We got my mom hooked up, then realized all the friends she is trying to zoom with are octagenarians too. So had to provide tech support for half a dozen different people. My mom’s thing is forgetting all her passwords and resetting them after being locked out for entering them wrong. So she has a book for all her different passwords. Which has no indication of which password does which thing. She seems to think they are interchangeable. That took a good three hours.
Then the gas station. They have fried chicken there and I suggested some as a treat, since we were half past fed up. My husband came out complaining that he was literally bumped into by 18 different people, none wearing masks except one construction worker. I said that if that was the case he should have just left, and he said he didn’t want to disappoint me. I said I would rather be disappointed than dead. At least the chicken and the people who made it were behind plexiglas.
Our mayor has said we are not dropping back to phase 1, because what would be the point when people aren’t even following phase 2? He said that without community buy-in, there aren’t enough cops in the world to enforce proper behavior. And that the community seemed to think covid came with an off switch, that when they entered phase 2 everyone just stopped trying.
I just would prefer not to die, please, and no one else seems all that interested in helping me stay alive. Grrrrrrrrr.
Feel you!
On all of it.
I'm trying to get my 76-year-old Dad to figure out his first smart phone. I can't even imagine getting more than one non-tech-savy person to figure it out.
He's still fairly sharp, but not about this.
Sorry about the non-compliance. But as you might have seen me mention upthread, most folk in my neck of the woods never started any Phases no matter what the Governor said, down to the county level. They immediately said at the beginning on the local news they weren't enforcing anything even if something was mandated. If I thought it would do one bit of good, I'm rip-snortin'-mad enough to write a letter to the Governor. Tennessee Pledge...ha! Either people don't get, or they don't want to, that if you aren't wearing a mask (and properly) then you are possibly spreading a silent virus, one that gets really loud, rowdy, and deadly for the elderly and unhealthy and sometimes random children and healthy adults. So it really isn't even safe for people to go get food at the grocery store. My hubby wears his mask. He's protecting others. That's nice and all, but nothing is protecting him from bringing it home to Dad from the hoarde who refuse to wear one. Where are the PSAs here? Where is the teeth in guidelines? There will not be any of that. Lee did a press conference yesterday and I had to stop watching. He's still leaving it up to the uncaring to fix everything. They still aren't. Who is going to protect us from their ignorance and thoughtlessness and callous disregard for human life when all they have to do is stand apart and wear some cloth over their mouth and nose for a little while? If I hear one more person say, "It's ok. I'm not sick!" I might actually scream for real.
That. Is. Not. The. Point.
That is not how this works.
7 days (SEVEN DAYS!) after an employee at the Court House tested positive for COVID they finally contacted the local news to let people know. What did the Health Dept say? "Those who were there on such and such string of days monitor for symptoms and then self-quarantine and get tested if you get sick." What on earth! This is the Health Dept! 7 Days of possibly infected folk swarming Walmart and Lowe's and church spreading it around. But they'll all blame rising cases on protests. Which there weren't any in our county, only in the next, and they were small. The culprit can't possibly be violating guidelines en masse during a PANDEMIC...
Save me. :explode:
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I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
Exactly--and it's for people like you that really can't wear a mask, that the majority should be. I think that's what's firing up everyone else who is careful, and thinking of people they care about, and wearing that mask even if it's hot and uncomfortable. They see too many people without and it can't mean that they all have medical conditions. You are to be commended for trying to wear it as much as possible. No one thinks everyone can. Thank you for doing your best.12 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
And a vaccine? It's supposed to be ready here this fall. Trials are going well so far. So, I don't agree with you. England tried your approach, and now India and Pakistan don't have the wherewithall to do anything but go with the flow---total disaster. Even Sweden tried it, and their numbers (in a small country) jumped too high. And "everyone catching it" means a high death rate. As you're spreading it to your grandparents, elderly neighbors, and that sickly little kid down the block, and they don't make it---wouldn't you be sorry? Or not?15 -
I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
Thank you so much for even trying considering your challenges!
You are so awesome! 12 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
Exactly--and it's for people like you that really can't wear a mask, that the majority should be. I think that's what's firing up everyone else who is careful, and thinking of people they care about, and wearing that mask even if it's hot and uncomfortable. They see too many people without and it can't mean that they all have medical conditions. You are to be commended for trying to wear it as much as possible. No one thinks everyone can. Thank you for doing your best.
So well said by both of you.My beef with anti-maskers are the ones who are simply being stubborn, contrary and not giving any thought to other people. Definitely Athijade isn't one of those. My feeling is you're one of the few who think it through and try that hard though; at least of the non-maskers. I do see where lots of people have a mask covering only their mouth and I wonder if it's so they can breathe easier through their nose? A mask, especially, in hot and humid weather, can make you feel like you're suffocating to some degree. And I cannot imagine wearing one for a whole work day as some people are required to.
I made the mistake of stopping at the Salvation Army on my way home from my sister's house this a.m. I was the only person with a mask on out of maybe 8 people there, including a woman coming into the store looking for a job.
Our area has been very lucky with low numbers and nobody at the moment known to be positive but all it takes is that one person to enter our community, not even knowing they're contagious.
My niece lives in Maine and she was relating a story about a hair salon with 2 hairdressers, both ended up testing positive after they'd unknowingly exposed 300 or so customers. But at their work, they required all patrons and employees to wear masks. Not one of those 300+ people caught Covid from those 2 hairdressers. If anyone knows this story please confirm because it's come through 2 people and I'm not 100% sure of it's accuracy. But I still find it very interesting, possibly indicating the success of wearing a mask.6 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
Unfortunately, we don't know that everyone who gets it becomes immune, and we don't know how long immunity might last. They are finding people who barely have mild symptoms who are showing evidence of lung or kidney damage or poor blood oxygenation, and we have no idea if it's temporary or permanent. So counting on everyone getting it and then everything will be fine has no basis in currently known fact.
Also, if you look at the current population of the US and at the death and disability rates of this thing so far, it's quite possible "everyone getting it" will result in over 2 million deaths and millions more permanently disabled and/or buried under medical debt from weeks in ICU and follow up care.
The only way we get out of this without that kind of horrible human tragedy is continuing to flatten the curve as much as possible until there is a vaccine, or at least a government subsidized treatment that anyone with symptoms can be treated with before any damage is done.18 -
janejellyroll wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »"the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it".
There are just so many things wrong with this statement. There is no definitive evidence which suggests you cannot catch it more than once. There is also an huge unknown about LONG term chronic effects of this disease on people.
Yeah sometimes I wonder if everyone is eventually going to catch it also, but I do not think that is the preferred method of overcoming pandemics which kill.
I don't think I'm the only person who is hoping that I never catch it. It sounds like it can be truly terrible and we have no good way to know if we're going to coast through asymptomatically, with a mild case, be knocked for a loop for weeks, or even worse. I'm actively trying to avoid this thing (and am fortunate enough to have a job where I can effectively isolate).
Yep. My goal is to never catch it, and my biggest hope is that no one in my family catches it. The media here in the US does people a great disservice by not specifying what a mild case is and what recovered means. As far as I can tell, "mild" simply means not hospitalized.11 -
"Mild" includes pneumonia.9
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Yeah, it's a fine line between scaring people half to death and not scaring them enough to prevent their death.6
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As my grandpa used to say when the kids were being hardheaded, experience will have to be your teacher.8
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How are you all handling differing opinions and actions amongst family and close friends? In the beginning it was easier when everyone was hyper aware and states were closed down. Now that things are opening up so many people just want normal again. I mean, I crave normalcy, but I also recognize it’s too soon.
It seems like we (me and my family) are the only ones in any of our circles to be taking consistent protective measures... his family wants us to come visit (out of state, 6 hour drive), but we don’t want to risk us taking something to them or my husband being quarantined from work during a very busy time due to direct exposure. A couple other friends are very much against masks and think it’s stupid they are required. My oldest is almost 13 and was sulking that he had to wear one when none of the other kids were (my husband explained to him that him wearing a mask shows that he cares about his friends). We’re not spastic about it, just mindful. A friend of mine (and her family... including 3 young CBildren) are traveling for a funeral and their trip brings them right by our house (7.5 hours away). She asked if they could stop by and maybe even spend the night. At first I was excited, but then all the question marks started popping into my mind (because my brain can be quick to forget the world we currently live in since we aren’t out and about much). My gut says I need to regretfully pass, my heart wants to welcome them with open arms. She did tell me that they have been getting together frequently with family and friends without any precautions or social distancing. Maybe we can split the difference and catch up outdoors then them stay in a hotel? I feel guilty about that, but I think she understands.
Dang it, it sucks. And in the midst of everything, why do I feel like the weird one?? I guess because we are so outnumbered.16 -
moonangel12 wrote: »How are you all handling differing opinions and actions amongst family and close friends? In the beginning it was easier when everyone was hyper aware and states were closed down. Now that things are opening up so many people just want normal again. I mean, I crave normalcy, but I also recognize it’s too soon.
It seems like we (me and my family) are the only ones in any of our circles to be taking consistent protective measures... his family wants us to come visit (out of state, 6 hour drive), but we don’t want to risk us taking something to them or my husband being quarantined from work during a very busy time due to direct exposure. A couple other friends are very much against masks and think it’s stupid they are required. My oldest is almost 13 and was sulking that he had to wear one when none of the other kids were (my husband explained to him that him wearing a mask shows that he cares about his friends). We’re not spastic about it, just mindful. A friend of mine (and her family... including 3 young CBildren) are traveling for a funeral and their trip brings them right by our house (7.5 hours away). She asked if they could stop by and maybe even spend the night. At first I was excited, but then all the question marks started popping into my mind (because my brain can be quick to forget the world we currently live in since we aren’t out and about much). My gut says I need to regretfully pass, my heart wants to welcome them with open arms. She did tell me that they have been getting together frequently with family and friends without any precautions or social distancing. Maybe we can split the difference and catch up outdoors then them stay in a hotel? I feel guilty about that, but I think she understands.
Dang it, it sucks. And in the midst of everything, why do I feel like the weird one?? I guess because we are so outnumbered.
It's hard. I told my family I will only come over if we are outdoors. My parents started out being really careful, but the numbers around here have been low and they are starting to lose their patience. I know my brother and SIL are probably letting my little nephews play with other children, so I'm scared that my parents spending time with them are really being exposed to the habits of all sorts of other families. Having said that, I can't imagine how difficult this is for people with children. I know I've now officially been tagged the worrywart of the family.10
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