Coronavirus prep
Replies
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My husband has been working the polls for every local and general election for many years. This year, I told him that it was a No-No. He is 81 years old with some underlying medical conditions and being in an enclosed place for over 12 hours (yes, this is how long it takes from setting the tables early in the morning to the actual delivery of ballots to the corresponding office after closing), was way to risky for him. Time for the younger folks to do it.
I also told him that if he insisted in doing it, he would have to quarantine in the guest room and take a COVID test afterward. He didn't like these options, specially the first one.... If one of us gets sick, chances are that the one will too. We don't have anybody near by to take care of the household or us. So we will probably go inside the rabbit hole, and we maybe never come up again.15 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Question about COVID risk assessment...
I have an opportunity to be an Election Judge on Tuesday. Indoors all day, and I would be wearing a mask, but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings. Social distancing would be encouraged, but I imagine if you're helping someone with a voting machine, there's only so much you can do to stay 6 feet apart.
I live in an area where mask-wearing is very common and expected everywhere, so I doubt there would be many (if any) un-masked people there to vote. I am not in a high-risk group, but I have family members (not in my household) who are. I guess I'm most worried about the length of time in an indoor space with potentially thousands of different people. Our COVID positivity rates have been spiking in the last few weeks.
It's a dilemma for me, because I want very much to do what I can to help people vote. But, I'm also very nervous about the risks.
I'll obviously have to make my own best decision on this, but just curious as to what you all would do.
Personally, I wouldn't do it... but I'm in a high risk group medically. If I wasn't, I would probably see if I could find a mask that is N95 to wear for my protection and then put a fashionable cloth mask over it for additional good measure and appearance.
That's a great idea with the masks, I usually just wear a N95 mask and my cloth mask gets neglected.0 -
@missysippy930 yes, 2020 has stunk. But one good thing came, my first grandchild/son!
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Buy those ten packs of toilet paper!0
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »You are assuming that this virus was controllable. Viruses like sharks have been around longer than man and both seem to control the responses of man more than the other way around. It has been said from the get go this coming winter was going to be very hard but hopefully the experts are wrong. You are correct often the second and third waves are worse.
Out of the UK last week we heard Covid-19 may be with us for years to come. Keep in mind most of what we have heard since March 2020 has been filtered by non medical people.
We now understand the lack good health practices invites pandemics historically speaking.
It was. Several countries have done it/are doing it. But as the person above you said, it's too late for those that didn't get control of it early. The horse has well and truly bolted.
Will you please share the current Covid-19 stats for 3 of the several countries that you claim have done it/are doing it?
China has claimed the virus behind Covid-19 was the work of the USA and that may have some merit but most nations are pointing fingers towards mainland China. Assuming the virus did come from China once it was exported by plane directly to the USA west coast and to the east coast way of Italy medically speaking Covid-19 was not controllable in the USA or other countries period.
Today in the USA alone we are certain millions are walking around spreading the virus with no outward symptoms. A killer virus that can hide undetected by outward signs in infected humans is NOT controllable period. It can be Managed but not Controlled.
You are correct, managed is what I was meaning.
FWIW, New Zealand's current cases (as of yesterday). That one new case is someone in Managed Isolation (ie someone who has just arrived from overseas and is in mandatory MIQ for 14 days - yes, we have the audacity to confine anyone coming into the country to a 4/5 star hotel for a couple of weeks after arrival). The current community cases stem from someone who does some sort of repair work or something on ships, who contracted it on a ship they worked on recently, and close contacts of that person:
Australia is also doing well. The state of Victoria had a nasty re-emergence starting a few months back, and have just now come out of a very strict 12 week lockdown to get that under control (which they have).
Yes, both of these countries are islands. So's the UK. We most certainly had some advantages, but mostly our success in managing the pandemic was down to swift and decisive action by our leaders.
Yes!! I love the New Zealand model. I have a relative living there, so get a few updates on how well it has worked for them.
New Zealand made the right decision very early on of being an island.
We made the right decision very early on of going into a strict lockdown. Otherwise we'd be in the same mess as the rest of you. There are plenty of places that aren't islands that have done similarly well.17 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Question about COVID risk assessment...
I have an opportunity to be an Election Judge on Tuesday. Indoors all day, and I would be wearing a mask, but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings. Social distancing would be encouraged, but I imagine if you're helping someone with a voting machine, there's only so much you can do to stay 6 feet apart.
I live in an area where mask-wearing is very common and expected everywhere, so I doubt there would be many (if any) un-masked people there to vote. I am not in a high-risk group, but I have family members (not in my household) who are. I guess I'm most worried about the length of time in an indoor space with potentially thousands of different people. Our COVID positivity rates have been spiking in the last few weeks.
It's a dilemma for me, because I want very much to do what I can to help people vote. But, I'm also very nervous about the risks.
I'll obviously have to make my own best decision on this, but just curious as to what you all would do.
You said, "....... but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings." Why not?? There's no public place I can enter now without a mask, and most of those places will also do temperature checks and hand sanitizer at the entrance.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Question about COVID risk assessment...
I have an opportunity to be an Election Judge on Tuesday. Indoors all day, and I would be wearing a mask, but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings. Social distancing would be encouraged, but I imagine if you're helping someone with a voting machine, there's only so much you can do to stay 6 feet apart.
I live in an area where mask-wearing is very common and expected everywhere, so I doubt there would be many (if any) un-masked people there to vote. I am not in a high-risk group, but I have family members (not in my household) who are. I guess I'm most worried about the length of time in an indoor space with potentially thousands of different people. Our COVID positivity rates have been spiking in the last few weeks.
It's a dilemma for me, because I want very much to do what I can to help people vote. But, I'm also very nervous about the risks.
I'll obviously have to make my own best decision on this, but just curious as to what you all would do.
This would personally be too much risk for me, but I can also see the value in helping others vote and I wouldn't think someone else was being foolhardy if their priorities led them to make a different call.
Ditto ^^ . I would even admire anyone who wasn't in a high-risk group or living with someone in a high-risk group for being an election judge. Well, I admire election judges even when we aren't in a pandemic. It's something I've thought doing when I'm finally retired.4 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Question about COVID risk assessment...
I have an opportunity to be an Election Judge on Tuesday. Indoors all day, and I would be wearing a mask, but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings. Social distancing would be encouraged, but I imagine if you're helping someone with a voting machine, there's only so much you can do to stay 6 feet apart.
I live in an area where mask-wearing is very common and expected everywhere, so I doubt there would be many (if any) un-masked people there to vote. I am not in a high-risk group, but I have family members (not in my household) who are. I guess I'm most worried about the length of time in an indoor space with potentially thousands of different people. Our COVID positivity rates have been spiking in the last few weeks.
It's a dilemma for me, because I want very much to do what I can to help people vote. But, I'm also very nervous about the risks.
I'll obviously have to make my own best decision on this, but just curious as to what you all would do.
You said, "....... but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings." Why not?? There's no public place I can enter now without a mask, and most of those places will also do temperature checks and hand sanitizer at the entrance.
Different states, different laws.3 -
https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/8/5/21356321/masks-voters-election-day-coronavirus-covid-illinois-chicago
"Chicago election officials plan to “strongly encourage” but will not require voters to wear face masks to their polling places this fall.
They say their decision was made in accordance with current COVID-19 guidelines from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and the Illinois Department of Public Health — neither of which mandate the use of face coverings for voting.
Election officials in suburban Cook, DuPage and Lake counties told me they are awaiting updated guidance from the state before finalizing their own face mask policies.
But a statement Wednesday from Gov. J.B. Pritzker’s office gave no indication he will recommend any further restrictions before early voting begins in October.... [Note, cases are worse now than in Sept.]
Although Illinois requires face coverings in public indoor spaces, such as grocery or drug stores, mandating their use in the voting booth would raise some sticky legal issues of possible voter suppression.
A face mask requirement could be viewed as creating an illegal barrier to voting for those who might refuse to wear them — on whatever grounds."
For what it's worth, when I early voted a few weeks ago, everyone was wearing a mask, and I personally have 0 sympathy for those who come to the polls claiming they cannot wear a mask, as I don't believe them, but this is a liberal state so apparently we think that's a thing. So whatever. I think it will be a small number who refuse to wear them here.8 -
An acquaintance of mine attended a wedding. No social distancing, no face coverings. The whole family, 8 members, as well as, many other guests, wedding party, were diagnosed with covid. All of these people (my acquaintances) attended work before testing positive. Exposing many people. Many who have preexisting conditions that put them at increased risk.
A perfect example of what can easily happen when large groups of people congregate.
It can happen to anyone. Please don’t put your families, friends and loved ones at risk by having large family/friends holiday gatherings.
Also, yesterday, a federal appeals court ruled that the state of Minnesota cannot count votes from mail in ballots received after November 3rd. The state has been telling us Minnesotans, that if they are postmarked by 11/3, they will be counted through 11/10.16 -
missysippy930 wrote: »An acquaintance of mine attended a wedding. No social distancing, no face coverings. The whole family, 8 members, as well as, many other guests, wedding party, were diagnosed with covid. All of these people (my acquaintances) attended work before testing positive. Exposing many people. Many who have preexisting conditions that put them at increased risk.
A perfect example of what can easily happen when large groups of people congregate.
It can happen to anyone. Please don’t put your families, friends and loved ones at risk by having large family/friends holiday gatherings.
Also, yesterday, a federal appeals court ruled that the state of Minnesota cannot count votes from mail in ballots received after November 3rd. The state has been telling us Minnesotans, that if they are postmarked by 11/3, they will be counted through 11/10.
I think family gatherings are high risk. Weddings because everyone has spent money to look nice and don't want to ruin it with a mask, plus hugging relatives not seen for years--hard to resist. Funerals because of the emotion, how can you resist not hugging the bereaved family? Then the holidays where people relax around family and think that they couldn't be at risk, and you don't want to insult them by wearing a mask in their close presence. All of these are recipes for disaster. Can you get through without getting infected? Yes, but it takes willpower. Most will just throw caution to the winds, especially if alcohol is involved.12 -
snowflake954 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »An acquaintance of mine attended a wedding. No social distancing, no face coverings. The whole family, 8 members, as well as, many other guests, wedding party, were diagnosed with covid. All of these people (my acquaintances) attended work before testing positive. Exposing many people. Many who have preexisting conditions that put them at increased risk.
A perfect example of what can easily happen when large groups of people congregate.
It can happen to anyone. Please don’t put your families, friends and loved ones at risk by having large family/friends holiday gatherings.
Also, yesterday, a federal appeals court ruled that the state of Minnesota cannot count votes from mail in ballots received after November 3rd. The state has been telling us Minnesotans, that if they are postmarked by 11/3, they will be counted through 11/10.
I think family gatherings are high risk. Weddings because everyone has spent money to look nice and don't want to ruin it with a mask, plus hugging relatives not seen for years--hard to resist. Funerals because of the emotion, how can you resist not hugging the bereaved family? Then the holidays where people relax around family and think that they couldn't be at risk, and you don't want to insult them by wearing a mask in their close presence. All of these are recipes for disaster. Can you get through without getting infected? Yes, but it takes willpower. Most will just throw caution to the winds, especially if alcohol is involved.
That's exactly why we were going to tell my son not to come for Thanksgiving. But we were planning on having him home for X-mas. We were concerned more about his friends than him and our intuition was right -- he got it two weeks ago and has since pretty much recovered. But would I have recovered or my wife? Likely not nearly as easily.
Once one of his friends got it, they all had it. Very quickly. A few of them (and this sounds terrible) I had hoped were knocked down for a few weeks because of all the garbage they were putting up on Facebook denying that Covid-19 was real and dangerous.
Certainly not how we planned on feeling safe for Thanksgiving with him coming home already having been exposed, but for the next few months, he should be immune.
Saw the stats on South Dakota yesterday. Absolutely sickening. 45% of those tested are coming back positive. Guess that motorcycle rally, followed up by the political rally, weren't such a great idea in retrospect. Don't look now but NJ and NY that had, by far, the highest per capita deaths have some real competition coming on strong -- all in areas where anti maskers were in high numbers.9 -
Negative for Covid. Took my test yesterday morning and got it back this morning. Since it is my cities own health department that is doing them and demand is down when it comes to people wanting a test, it was processed fast. So that is a weight off my shoulders.27
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Question about COVID risk assessment...
I have an opportunity to be an Election Judge on Tuesday. Indoors all day, and I would be wearing a mask, but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings. Social distancing would be encouraged, but I imagine if you're helping someone with a voting machine, there's only so much you can do to stay 6 feet apart.
I live in an area where mask-wearing is very common and expected everywhere, so I doubt there would be many (if any) un-masked people there to vote. I am not in a high-risk group, but I have family members (not in my household) who are. I guess I'm most worried about the length of time in an indoor space with potentially thousands of different people. Our COVID positivity rates have been spiking in the last few weeks.
It's a dilemma for me, because I want very much to do what I can to help people vote. But, I'm also very nervous about the risks.
I'll obviously have to make my own best decision on this, but just curious as to what you all would do.
You said, "....... but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings." Why not?? There's no public place I can enter now without a mask, and most of those places will also do temperature checks and hand sanitizer at the entrance.
Because there is great legal peril in denying an elegible voter the right to vote for any reason. If a polling place refused entry to someone because they refused to wear a mask, there would be messy legal action taken. It's a voter suppression issue.
All that polling places can do is highly encourage the wearing of masks, and as I said, I live in an area where mask-wearing is pretty universal. In fact, I think that most people would assume that they are mandatory while voting.8 -
This is from Baylor College of Medicine regarding creating a holiday "bubble" for your family. This wouldn't all be possible for a lot of people, but still, some good ideas in there:
https://www.bcm.edu/coronavirus/for-the-baylor-community/from-dr-james-mcdeavitt/build-your-own-holiday-bubble
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Question about COVID risk assessment...
I have an opportunity to be an Election Judge on Tuesday. Indoors all day, and I would be wearing a mask, but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings. Social distancing would be encouraged, but I imagine if you're helping someone with a voting machine, there's only so much you can do to stay 6 feet apart.
I live in an area where mask-wearing is very common and expected everywhere, so I doubt there would be many (if any) un-masked people there to vote. I am not in a high-risk group, but I have family members (not in my household) who are. I guess I'm most worried about the length of time in an indoor space with potentially thousands of different people. Our COVID positivity rates have been spiking in the last few weeks.
It's a dilemma for me, because I want very much to do what I can to help people vote. But, I'm also very nervous about the risks.
I'll obviously have to make my own best decision on this, but just curious as to what you all would do.
You said, "....... but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings." Why not?? There's no public place I can enter now without a mask, and most of those places will also do temperature checks and hand sanitizer at the entrance.
Because there is great legal peril in denying an elegible voter the right to vote for any reason. If a polling place refused entry to someone because they refused to wear a mask, there would be messy legal action taken. It's a voter suppression issue.
All that polling places can do is highly encourage the wearing of masks, and as I said, I live in an area where mask-wearing is pretty universal. In fact, I think that most people would assume that they are mandatory while voting.
Depends on where you live. There are kinds of rules and laws that create legitimate reasons for denying someone admission to a polling place, e.g., bringing in a stack of campaign literature and trying to hand it out. Many states deny you the right to vote if you have neglected to vote in X years. The legal peril lies in discriminating in voting procedures on the basis of race, color, previous condition of servitude, sex, or age (so long as the would-be voter is at least 18), or in imposing a poll tax.
But it's a litigious country, and people will sue over anything:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/mask-voting-lawsuit-maryland/2020/10/28/653061c4-1934-11eb-82db-60b15c874105_story.html
(behind a paywall if you're not a subscriber, I think; sorry -- basically, a father and adult son entered a polling place without masks, were told they either had to put on masks or leave, but that they could vote outside; father refused to leave; police were called and arrested him for trespassing, later adding a charge for violating governor's order to wear masks indoors in public places; he is now suing)1 -
https://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/once-skeptical-butte-couple-now-advocates-caution-after-surviving-covid-19/article_11be39a5-003d-5101-b0b2-5551f5e4d147.html
"The hospitals out here are too small to have respiratory therapists. When someone requires a vent in larger hospitals they have a crew that’s trained and ready to go for that specific system. In smaller hospitals the nurses are asked to step up and manage those vents until the flight crew comes to get that patient," Presser said, adding that nurses in smaller hospitals are increasingly being asked to "wear many hats."
Counties across the Hi-Line have begun to see surges in cases, with some counties experiencing case counts in the hundreds. Presser said she didn't anticipate case rates to trend down anytime soon with the culmination of cold and flu season."
"Five days later Sandon learned she had sepsis, a potentially life-threatening complication of a viral infection. She isn’t sure what caused the sepsis.
In total she spent 11 days in the hospital and 45 days in isolation.
Sandon was already in the hospital when Herrera felt like he couldn’t breathe anymore.
“My chest was constricted and my breaths were shallow and things were starting to get black,” he described."
The husband said on the news last night that he may be on blood thinners for the rest of his life.
“.. my problems now are fluid in my lungs,” Herrera said. “The doctors are scared they are blood clots. Now I’m on blood thinners."7 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Question about COVID risk assessment...
I have an opportunity to be an Election Judge on Tuesday. Indoors all day, and I would be wearing a mask, but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings. Social distancing would be encouraged, but I imagine if you're helping someone with a voting machine, there's only so much you can do to stay 6 feet apart.
I live in an area where mask-wearing is very common and expected everywhere, so I doubt there would be many (if any) un-masked people there to vote. I am not in a high-risk group, but I have family members (not in my household) who are. I guess I'm most worried about the length of time in an indoor space with potentially thousands of different people. Our COVID positivity rates have been spiking in the last few weeks.
It's a dilemma for me, because I want very much to do what I can to help people vote. But, I'm also very nervous about the risks.
I'll obviously have to make my own best decision on this, but just curious as to what you all would do.
You said, "....... but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings." Why not?? There's no public place I can enter now without a mask, and most of those places will also do temperature checks and hand sanitizer at the entrance.
Because there is great legal peril in denying an elegible voter the right to vote for any reason. If a polling place refused entry to someone because they refused to wear a mask, there would be messy legal action taken. It's a voter suppression issue.
All that polling places can do is highly encourage the wearing of masks, and as I said, I live in an area where mask-wearing is pretty universal. In fact, I think that most people would assume that they are mandatory while voting.
I heard a semi-funny story from early voting. The town/city/county did require masks and someone showed up wearing a mask promoting a particular candidate. Person comes in and the location is in a quandary. Forse the person to take off the political mask, or allow them to keep it on for the mask mandate. I do not recall how it got resolved. The other similar story was the woman wearing a political t-shirt who then voted topless after being required to take it off. It's a crazy world!2 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »
How do you think that? Scofflaw?Theoldguy1 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Gotta love California. Our new guideline to get us through the holidays. Ha
Sorry had to Google since I thought it was internet BS.
So what is done if someone waves a middle finger at one or all of the guidelines?
Nothing. It's not enforceable. They're just hoping that people will see the guidelines and be more thoughtful and cautious this season. Maybe try to adhere somewhat to it. Better than putting out no guidance at all and people just think it's business as usual.
Not enforceable law...there is no legislation and no statute. There is nothing for law enforcement to remotely hang their hat on by trying to enforce any of those things. They are guidelines and the best that can be hoped for is voluntary compliance. The government can't regulate whether or not you have family or friends over to your personal property in any number outside of noise ordinances and such...but even then, law enforcement would be walking a very fine line.
I've talked to some law enforcement as we have county sheriffs doing security at my office...they can't do anything...it's none of their business whether someone has granny and auntie and their cousins over to their own personal property for a BBQ...they don't have a legal leg to stand on trying to do that.3 -
It’s been unseasonably cold here. Record amount of snow for the month of October ever recorded in Mpls/St Paul metro area. Yesterday, while on a grocery shopping trip, my husband commented on the way into the store, “it’s kind of nice having a mask”. The masks cut the cold air on your face. A positive among so many negatives. 👍🏻13
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I definitely prefer them when it's cold to when it's hot. Was just thinking that yesterday.7
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Piece on Illinois' mask mandate and voting (basically what SuzySunshine said).
https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/8/5/21356321/masks-voters-election-day-coronavirus-covid-illinois-chicago1 -
missysippy930 wrote: »It’s been unseasonably cold here. Record amount of snow for the month of October ever recorded in Mpls/St Paul metro area. Yesterday, while on a grocery shopping trip, my husband commented on the way into the store, “it’s kind of nice having a mask”. The masks cut the cold air on your face. A positive among so many negatives. 👍🏻
I'm actually looking forward to mask wearing this winter for that very reason. I can leave my scarf tucked around my neck and not pull it up to cover the lower part of my face.
Of course, like many women, I've turned the mask thing into another fashion accessory.
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I definitely prefer them when it's cold to when it's hot. Was just thinking that yesterday.
The extra glasses-fog in the cold is very real, though.
We are required to wear masks inside the (rowing) boathouse, or when other people are close by outside. In practice, we usually wear them while carrying boats/oars down to the dock, and take them off once settled in the boat. (Even in a multi-person boat, we're several feet apart - possibly not 6', but several, and it's high air flow. My smart medical fellow-rowers think it's not very high risk. 🤷♀️)
But the point is: I've found that not only do I fog up terribly on these cold mornings, but so much so that there are big water droplets on the inside of my glasses lenses that won't evaporate in any reasonable timespan. I need to take the glasses off and wipe them, before I can see well enough to row (I steer). That's new, with the masks.4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »You are assuming that this virus was controllable. Viruses like sharks have been around longer than man and both seem to control the responses of man more than the other way around. It has been said from the get go this coming winter was going to be very hard but hopefully the experts are wrong. You are correct often the second and third waves are worse.
Out of the UK last week we heard Covid-19 may be with us for years to come. Keep in mind most of what we have heard since March 2020 has been filtered by non medical people.
We now understand the lack good health practices invites pandemics historically speaking.
It was. Several countries have done it/are doing it. But as the person above you said, it's too late for those that didn't get control of it early. The horse has well and truly bolted.
Will you please share the current Covid-19 stats for 3 of the several countries that you claim have done it/are doing it?
China has claimed the virus behind Covid-19 was the work of the USA and that may have some merit but most nations are pointing fingers towards mainland China. Assuming the virus did come from China once it was exported by plane directly to the USA west coast and to the east coast way of Italy medically speaking Covid-19 was not controllable in the USA or other countries period.
Today in the USA alone we are certain millions are walking around spreading the virus with no outward symptoms. A killer virus that can hide undetected by outward signs in infected humans is NOT controllable period. It can be Managed but not Controlled.
You are correct, managed is what I was meaning.
FWIW, New Zealand's current cases (as of yesterday). That one new case is someone in Managed Isolation (ie someone who has just arrived from overseas and is in mandatory MIQ for 14 days - yes, we have the audacity to confine anyone coming into the country to a 4/5 star hotel for a couple of weeks after arrival). The current community cases stem from someone who does some sort of repair work or something on ships, who contracted it on a ship they worked on recently, and close contacts of that person:
Australia is also doing well. The state of Victoria had a nasty re-emergence starting a few months back, and have just now come out of a very strict 12 week lockdown to get that under control (which they have).
Yes, both of these countries are islands. So's the UK. We most certainly had some advantages, but mostly our success in managing the pandemic was down to swift and decisive action by our leaders.
Yes!! I love the New Zealand model. I have a relative living there, so get a few updates on how well it has worked for them.
New Zealand made the right decision very early on of being an island.
We made the right decision very early on of going into a strict lockdown. Otherwise we'd be in the same mess as the rest of you. There are plenty of places that aren't islands that have done similarly well.
I am in Australia - like NZ, doing well (some states better than others)
Being an island helped - but to claim, as poster before you seemed to be implying, that the reason for doing well is solely that we are an island, is not correct.
Measures taken early and population compliance and non politicising of the issue had a lot to do with it too.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »
How do you think that? Scofflaw?Theoldguy1 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Gotta love California. Our new guideline to get us through the holidays. Ha
Sorry had to Google since I thought it was internet BS.
So what is done if someone waves a middle finger at one or all of the guidelines?
Nothing. It's not enforceable. They're just hoping that people will see the guidelines and be more thoughtful and cautious this season. Maybe try to adhere somewhat to it. Better than putting out no guidance at all and people just think it's business as usual.
Not enforceable law...there is no legislation and no statute. There is nothing for law enforcement to remotely hang their hat on by trying to enforce any of those things. They are guidelines and the best that can be hoped for is voluntary compliance. The government can't regulate whether or not you have family or friends over to your personal property in any number outside of noise ordinances and such...but even then, law enforcement would be walking a very fine line.
I've talked to some law enforcement as we have county sheriffs doing security at my office...they can't do anything...it's none of their business whether someone has granny and auntie and their cousins over to their own personal property for a BBQ...they don't have a legal leg to stand on trying to do that.
Agreed. It’s hard to get truthful information.0 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Question about COVID risk assessment...
I have an opportunity to be an Election Judge on Tuesday. Indoors all day, and I would be wearing a mask, but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings. Social distancing would be encouraged, but I imagine if you're helping someone with a voting machine, there's only so much you can do to stay 6 feet apart.
I live in an area where mask-wearing is very common and expected everywhere, so I doubt there would be many (if any) un-masked people there to vote. I am not in a high-risk group, but I have family members (not in my household) who are. I guess I'm most worried about the length of time in an indoor space with potentially thousands of different people. Our COVID positivity rates have been spiking in the last few weeks.
It's a dilemma for me, because I want very much to do what I can to help people vote. But, I'm also very nervous about the risks.
I'll obviously have to make my own best decision on this, but just curious as to what you all would do.
You said, "....... but masks can't be mandated for voters, and there can't be health checks/temperature screenings." Why not?? There's no public place I can enter now without a mask, and most of those places will also do temperature checks and hand sanitizer at the entrance.
Because there is great legal peril in denying an elegible voter the right to vote for any reason. If a polling place refused entry to someone because they refused to wear a mask, there would be messy legal action taken. It's a voter suppression issue.
All that polling places can do is highly encourage the wearing of masks, and as I said, I live in an area where mask-wearing is pretty universal. In fact, I think that most people would assume that they are mandatory while voting.
There is great legal peril in being caught breaching the COVID19 protocols set out by the government.
Here we have an election to select a new representative for one specific region. Today's paper carried an article with the headline "Strict protocols for election". It went on to say that strict COVID19 protocols will be in place at all polling stations. Supervisor of Elections and the head of the COVID19 Monitoring Unit met to be fully apprised of the requirements. Election workers received training to ensure proficiency in doing temperature checks and ensuring compliance with mask wearing, hand sanitizing, and social distancing.
This is the new normal. This is now our way of life. I'm sure nobody is going to protest at the enforcement of those protocols when they go to vote here. The same protocols are already familiar from our visits to banks, supermarkets, government offices, doctors, bill payment centres, hardware stores, restaurants, pharmacies, etc. This is the new normal.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »
How do you think that? Scofflaw?Theoldguy1 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Gotta love California. Our new guideline to get us through the holidays. Ha
Sorry had to Google since I thought it was internet BS.
So what is done if someone waves a middle finger at one or all of the guidelines?
Nothing. It's not enforceable. They're just hoping that people will see the guidelines and be more thoughtful and cautious this season. Maybe try to adhere somewhat to it. Better than putting out no guidance at all and people just think it's business as usual.
Not enforceable law...there is no legislation and no statute. There is nothing for law enforcement to remotely hang their hat on by trying to enforce any of those things. They are guidelines and the best that can be hoped for is voluntary compliance. The government can't regulate whether or not you have family or friends over to your personal property in any number outside of noise ordinances and such...but even then, law enforcement would be walking a very fine line.
I've talked to some law enforcement as we have county sheriffs doing security at my office...they can't do anything...it's none of their business whether someone has granny and auntie and their cousins over to their own personal property for a BBQ...they don't have a legal leg to stand on trying to do that.
Different countries, different laws I guess. During the initial reopening after the lockdown earlier this year, we were told we couldn't have more than 3 persons come to the house who were not part of the same household. So it was okay to be a husband and wife with 8 children living there, which makes 10, but us as a family of 3 could only have a maximum of 3 visitors to our house which makes 6, although 6 is less than the big family of 10. And it was enforceable, just as the curfew before it was enforced.2 -
Yes, agreed Tony.
When we were in lockdown, measures like numbers at home for gatherings were indeed enforceable.
None of this 'Only guidelines and we hope for voluntary co operation' stuff.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »
How do you think that? Scofflaw?Theoldguy1 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Gotta love California. Our new guideline to get us through the holidays. Ha
Sorry had to Google since I thought it was internet BS.
So what is done if someone waves a middle finger at one or all of the guidelines?
Nothing. It's not enforceable. They're just hoping that people will see the guidelines and be more thoughtful and cautious this season. Maybe try to adhere somewhat to it. Better than putting out no guidance at all and people just think it's business as usual.
Not enforceable law...there is no legislation and no statute. There is nothing for law enforcement to remotely hang their hat on by trying to enforce any of those things. They are guidelines and the best that can be hoped for is voluntary compliance. The government can't regulate whether or not you have family or friends over to your personal property in any number outside of noise ordinances and such...but even then, law enforcement would be walking a very fine line.
I've talked to some law enforcement as we have county sheriffs doing security at my office...they can't do anything...it's none of their business whether someone has granny and auntie and their cousins over to their own personal property for a BBQ...they don't have a legal leg to stand on trying to do that.
Different countries, different laws I guess. During the initial reopening after the lockdown earlier this year, we were told we couldn't have more than 3 persons come to the house who were not part of the same household. So it was okay to be a husband and wife with 8 children living there, which makes 10, but us as a family of 3 could only have a maximum of 3 visitors to our house which makes 6, although 6 is less than the big family of 10. And it was enforceable, just as the curfew before it was enforced.
I don't know of anywhere in the US where these things are actual laws...as in ordinances on the books. It wouldn't fly and would be a violation of the constitution and the bill of rights. Curfews and such are enforceable as are gatherings in public, etc...but not on your own personal, private property. Don't have enough police anyway to be going around checking houses to make sure no more than X number of people were there...and if they did, all hell would break loose.3
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