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To Keto or Not To Keto?

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  • Ddsb11Ddsb11 Member Posts: 608 Member Member Posts: 608 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    Poobah1972 wrote: »
    I like carbs...
    So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?

    It's a very individual decision, imo.

    I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.

    My diet is exactly the same whether I am losing, maintaining, or gaining. The only difference is whether I am in a 250 calorie deficit, eating maintenance calories, or whether I am in a 250 calorie surplus. It is so subtle I can barely tell the difference between each phase. Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success? By changing or demonizing certain macros you’re increasing the probability that one won’t maintain that change comfortably or indefinitely.

    As a very experienced dieter, i can tell you that your strategy doesn't work for me anymore. The only way i can lose weight is keto because its the only way for me to sustain a deficit. Carbs signal my hunger. So I will run a cyclical ketogenic diet where i carb refeed every two weeks for two days.

    As a group, we need to stop with the projection. What you find easy, isn't someone else's easy. What you find hard, might be someone's easy.

    Ultimately, the people who tend to be the most successful long term are people who track in one or more ways; weight, carbs, calories, inches, etc. Low carb, low fat, flexible, or whatever all produce little success.

    The only way anyone will be successful is by trying a few things out to find out what is sustainable. I just know for me, high carb diets are great for maintenance for me but suck for weight loss. And keto generally aligns to my dietary beliefs. But then again, it helps i am a really good cook.

    I didn’t say you need to eat like me. Here’s a direct quote-

    “Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success?” And “ Each person has a method they prefer, and it should be tailored to your lifestyle.


    If eating low carb works to satiate you, great. I support using it as a tool, but not to demonize a macro, or when it is falsely recognized as a weight loss miracle. As previously mentioned I ate this way for 10 years because the idea that carbs were somehow the enemy permeated my every thought. This is dangerous and irresponsible. Food is food, and it comes down to CICO, whether you choose keto, low fat, IF, or whatever.
    edited March 27
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,320 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,320 MFP Moderator
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    Poobah1972 wrote: »
    I like carbs...
    So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?

    It's a very individual decision, imo.

    I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.

    My diet is exactly the same whether I am losing, maintaining, or gaining. The only difference is whether I am in a 250 calorie deficit, eating maintenance calories, or whether I am in a 250 calorie surplus. It is so subtle I can barely tell the difference between each phase. Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success? By changing or demonizing certain macros you’re increasing the probability that one won’t maintain that change comfortably or indefinitely.

    As a very experienced dieter, i can tell you that your strategy doesn't work for me anymore. The only way i can lose weight is keto because its the only way for me to sustain a deficit. Carbs signal my hunger. So I will run a cyclical ketogenic diet where i carb refeed every two weeks for two days.

    As a group, we need to stop with the projection. What you find easy, isn't someone else's easy. What you find hard, might be someone's easy.

    Ultimately, the people who tend to be the most successful long term are people who track in one or more ways; weight, carbs, calories, inches, etc. Low carb, low fat, flexible, or whatever all produce little success.

    The only way anyone will be successful is by trying a few things out to find out what is sustainable. I just know for me, high carb diets are great for maintenance for me but suck for weight loss. And keto generally aligns to my dietary beliefs. But then again, it helps i am a really good cook.

    I didn’t say you need to eat like me. Here’s a direct quote-

    “Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success?” And “ Each person has a method they prefer, and it should be tailored to your lifestyle.


    If eating low carb works to satiate you, great. I support using it as a tool, but not to demonize a macro, or when it is falsely recognized as a weight loss miracle. As previously mentioned I ate this way for 10 years because the idea that carbs were somehow the enemy permeated my every thought. This is dangerous and irresponsible. Food is food, and it comes down to CICO, whether you choose keto, low fat, IF, or whatever.

    And my response is still it depends. Keto is not authentic to my style of eating but i found it blunted my hunger. I tried it after trying to get super lean for 3 years after i lost my first 50 lbs over a decade ago.

    And while food is food, there is often a lot more baggage to deal with when it comes to dieting..and simple having smaller portions often doesn't work. People often have to eliminate foods. I see this from training people.

    From a fundamental level, the less restrictions there are, the likelihood of success, but that is more of a generalization than a rule.
  • Ddsb11Ddsb11 Member Posts: 608 Member Member Posts: 608 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    Poobah1972 wrote: »
    I like carbs...
    So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?

    It's a very individual decision, imo.

    I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.

    My diet is exactly the same whether I am losing, maintaining, or gaining. The only difference is whether I am in a 250 calorie deficit, eating maintenance calories, or whether I am in a 250 calorie surplus. It is so subtle I can barely tell the difference between each phase. Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success? By changing or demonizing certain macros you’re increasing the probability that one won’t maintain that change comfortably or indefinitely.

    As a very experienced dieter, i can tell you that your strategy doesn't work for me anymore. The only way i can lose weight is keto because its the only way for me to sustain a deficit. Carbs signal my hunger. So I will run a cyclical ketogenic diet where i carb refeed every two weeks for two days.

    As a group, we need to stop with the projection. What you find easy, isn't someone else's easy. What you find hard, might be someone's easy.

    Ultimately, the people who tend to be the most successful long term are people who track in one or more ways; weight, carbs, calories, inches, etc. Low carb, low fat, flexible, or whatever all produce little success.

    The only way anyone will be successful is by trying a few things out to find out what is sustainable. I just know for me, high carb diets are great for maintenance for me but suck for weight loss. And keto generally aligns to my dietary beliefs. But then again, it helps i am a really good cook.

    I didn’t say you need to eat like me. Here’s a direct quote-

    “Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success?” And “ Each person has a method they prefer, and it should be tailored to your lifestyle.


    If eating low carb works to satiate you, great. I support using it as a tool, but not to demonize a macro, or when it is falsely recognized as a weight loss miracle. As previously mentioned I ate this way for 10 years because the idea that carbs were somehow the enemy permeated my every thought. This is dangerous and irresponsible. Food is food, and it comes down to CICO, whether you choose keto, low fat, IF, or whatever.

    And my response is still it depends. Keto is not authentic to my style of eating but i found it blunted my hunger. I tried it after trying to get super lean for 3 years after i lost my first 50 lbs over a decade ago.

    And while food is food, there is often a lot more baggage to deal with when it comes to dieting..and simple having smaller portions often doesn't work. People often have to eliminate foods. I see this from training people.

    From a fundamental level, the less restrictions there are, the likelihood of success, but that is more of a generalization than a rule.

    What I liked about Atkins when I did it for that 10 years was I felt like I didn't have to starve myself to lose weight. That's what hooked me for so long. Well, that and the fear of carbs at the time. But when I stopped losing the weight, I felt trapped, like- I have to eat this way forever and I can't even lose weight on it anymore! What's the point!? Oh man, it was unbelievably frustrating.

    Once it sunk in that a calorie deficit is the reason for weight loss, I asked myself why I would remove entire food groups from my life that I loved and enjoyed if I have to be in a deficit anyway? It still took me a couple of years to acclimate to eating bread and fruit again (I was legitimately afraid), but when I did I felt like, wow- I CAN be like everyone else. There wasn't something wrong with me, and I wasn't a freak of nature. I didn't have to punish myself if I ate a piece of birthday cake and I didn't destroy all my hard work.

    Do I blame Atkins, Keto, Paleo, or any other carb restricting diets for what happened to me? No. Do I attribute carb and sugar demonizing on misinformation and misleading media statements, absolutely. If someone prefers a certain way of eating because it makes them feel better, that's wonderful. Like I said, each person should tailor their diet to meet their lifestyle. Not everyone is satiated by eating fat/protein-heavy diets. I wasn't. I had NO energy. Not everyone is satisfied with a carb-loaded diet either. At the end of the day, it is individual and keeping the scales balanced on how we communicate that was my only intention.

    BTW, congrats on the 50lbs!
    edited March 27
  • millymalagamillymalaga Member Posts: 2 Member Member Posts: 2 Member
    I don't do keto but I have gone low carb. I suffer from joint pain, depression and my mum and grandparents had dementia. My husband has arthritis in his spine. Having researched many articles on the internet there was a lot of common advice.
    Exercise, get a good night's sleep, don't smoke, reduce alcohol intake and avoid sugars.
    Many doctors recommended the keto diet but to go completely clean keto for me would be impossible to stick to so I have gone for a low carb diet and I mainly use my 30-40g of carbs a day on fresh vegetables. Sometimes I have a couple of pieces of chocolate that takes up about 6g of my carbs.
    Yes I am losing weight too but I am overweight and I also need to lose a few pounds. But ultimately it's that chance to fight off that dementia that may well be headed my way.
  • Poobah1972Poobah1972 Member, Premium Posts: 451 Member Member, Premium Posts: 451 Member
    I have gone for a low carb diet and I mainly use my 30-40g of carbs a day on fresh vegetables.

    You can still go Keto and hit 40 carbs regularly... At least my fiancé and I can. I've hit 60 once, and it never took me out of ketosis. Everyone is different though, but I thought it's worth mentioning.

    edited March 27
  • Ddsb11Ddsb11 Member Posts: 608 Member Member Posts: 608 Member
    I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,320 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,320 MFP Moderator
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?

    Who is saying it's superior?


    Like I stated earlier is there are indicators or trends of successful people, most of which are not the specific diet but rather other additives (i.e., tracking) that make people more successful.
  • J72FITJ72FIT Member Posts: 5,766 Member Member Posts: 5,766 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    As a group, we need to stop with the projection. What you find easy, isn't someone else's easy. What you find hard, might be someone's easy.

    ^^^This...
  • Ddsb11Ddsb11 Member Posts: 608 Member Member Posts: 608 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?

    Who is saying it's superior?


    Like I stated earlier is there are indicators or trends of successful people, most of which are not the specific diet but rather other additives (i.e., tracking) that make people more successful.

    It was a genuine question, not trying to debate. Ketosis is often referred to as the best method for weight loss. I know that calories and tracking are what make people successful, but I was curious what people who swear by keto read to make them feel that way. I can look on a keto site and see what they are referring to.
    edited March 29
  • Ddsb11Ddsb11 Member Posts: 608 Member Member Posts: 608 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    As a group, we need to stop with the projection. What you find easy, isn't someone else's easy. What you find hard, might be someone's easy.

    ^^^This...

    🙄 No one is projecting or saying there’s 1 way.
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,141 Member Member Posts: 7,141 Member
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?

    Who is saying it's superior?


    Like I stated earlier is there are indicators or trends of successful people, most of which are not the specific diet but rather other additives (i.e., tracking) that make people more successful.

    It was a genuine question, not trying to debate. Ketosis is often referred to as the best method for weight loss. I know that calories and tracking are what make people successful, but I was curious what people who swear by keto read to make them feel that way. I can look on a keto site and see what they are referring to.

    Usually it's decreased hunger or cravings. I doubt that's really due to ketosis vs fewer carbs (i.e., I don't think being in ketosis really matters or testing yourself). I also don't think it's helpful for everyone, it's just an effect some have. (I have found really low carbs kill my hunger, but I don't find hunger a problem with on a deficit anyway, so that isn't important to me.) But for some who find it much easier not to want to overeat when on very low carbs, it's important, and may make a keto-style diet the best one for them.

    For others, it's blood sugar control. Again, not an issue for healthy people.
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,320 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,320 MFP Moderator
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?

    Who is saying it's superior?


    Like I stated earlier is there are indicators or trends of successful people, most of which are not the specific diet but rather other additives (i.e., tracking) that make people more successful.

    It was a genuine question, not trying to debate. Ketosis is often referred to as the best method for weight loss. I know that calories and tracking are what make people successful, but I was curious what people who swear by keto read to make them feel that way. I can look on a keto site and see what they are referring to.

    What you are doing is exactly projections. You have an opinion on the right way of dieting and self confirmed, based on bias, that there were no additional benefits of ketosis. It's the same thing that happens when plant based dieters suggest that meat is unhealthy or that protein isn't as important as what people say.

    If you want to research actual evidence on ketosis, especially the hunger suppression capabilities, then look into Dr. Dominic D'Agistino.

    Anecdotal evidence with my experience:
    It supresses my appetite. This is important for getting super lean. I still have some way to go but keto helped me lose an additional 10 lbs over a standard calorie counting approach. I also can go longer periods without feeling hungry.

    Cons: gym performance sucks. And no matter what BS someone tries to push about once you are fat adapted, your explosive performance will never come back fully. Carbs are rocket fuel. I saw a 25% reduction in performance immediately.

    Others observations: the people whose generally see the most benefit are the people with metabolic disorders. That is where the majority of people see mental clarity improvements, reduce inflammation and overall improvement health. But that is largely anecdotal.
  • Ddsb11Ddsb11 Member Posts: 608 Member Member Posts: 608 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?

    Who is saying it's superior?


    Like I stated earlier is there are indicators or trends of successful people, most of which are not the specific diet but rather other additives (i.e., tracking) that make people more successful.

    It was a genuine question, not trying to debate. Ketosis is often referred to as the best method for weight loss. I know that calories and tracking are what make people successful, but I was curious what people who swear by keto read to make them feel that way. I can look on a keto site and see what they are referring to.

    What you are doing is exactly projections. You have an opinion on the right way of dieting and self confirmed, based on bias, that there were no additional benefits of ketosis. It's the same thing that happens when plant based dieters suggest that meat is unhealthy or that protein isn't as important as what people say.

    If you want to research actual evidence on ketosis, especially the hunger suppression capabilities, then look into Dr. Dominic D'Agistino.

    Anecdotal evidence with my experience:
    It supresses my appetite. This is important for getting super lean. I still have some way to go but keto helped me lose an additional 10 lbs over a standard calorie counting approach. I also can go longer periods without feeling hungry.

    Cons: gym performance sucks. And no matter what BS someone tries to push about once you are fat adapted, your explosive performance will never come back fully. Carbs are rocket fuel. I saw a 25% reduction in performance immediately.

    Others observations: the people whose generally see the most benefit are the people with metabolic disorders. That is where the majority of people see mental clarity improvements, reduce inflammation and overall improvement health. But that is largely anecdotal.

    What you are doing is exactly projections. You have an opinion on the right way of dieting and self confirmed, based on bias, that there were no additional benefits of ketosis.

    I didn’t say that. You are welcome to quote me where I did so I can correct myself.

    If you want to argue points I wasn’t opposed to be my guest.
    edited March 29
  • Ddsb11Ddsb11 Member Posts: 608 Member Member Posts: 608 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?

    Who is saying it's superior?


    Like I stated earlier is there are indicators or trends of successful people, most of which are not the specific diet but rather other additives (i.e., tracking) that make people more successful.

    It was a genuine question, not trying to debate. Ketosis is often referred to as the best method for weight loss. I know that calories and tracking are what make people successful, but I was curious what people who swear by keto read to make them feel that way. I can look on a keto site and see what they are referring to.

    Usually it's decreased hunger or cravings. I doubt that's really due to ketosis vs fewer carbs (i.e., I don't think being in ketosis really matters or testing yourself). I also don't think it's helpful for everyone, it's just an effect some have. (I have found really low carbs kill my hunger, but I don't find hunger a problem with on a deficit anyway, so that isn't important to me.) But for some who find it much easier not to want to overeat when on very low carbs, it's important, and may make a keto-style diet the best one for them.

    For others, it's blood sugar control. Again, not an issue for healthy people.

    Thank you so much!! This is perfect.
  • paperpuddingpaperpudding Member Posts: 6,545 Member Member Posts: 6,545 Member
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?

    Who is saying it's superior?


    Like I stated earlier is there are indicators or trends of successful people, most of which are not the specific diet but rather other additives (i.e., tracking) that make people more successful.

    It was a genuine question, not trying to debate. Ketosis is often referred to as the best method for weight loss. I know that calories and tracking are what make people successful, but I was curious what people who swear by keto read to make them feel that way. I can look on a keto site and see what they are referring to.


    I know this thread is about keto - and I am probably nit picking - but calories are what make people successful, not neccesarily calories and tracking.

    This is MFP - so there will be bias toward tracking.

    But it isnt neccesary for everyone - there are people who successfully cut calories /lose or maintain weight without tracking.

  • Ddsb11Ddsb11 Member Posts: 608 Member Member Posts: 608 Member
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?

    Who is saying it's superior?


    Like I stated earlier is there are indicators or trends of successful people, most of which are not the specific diet but rather other additives (i.e., tracking) that make people more successful.

    It was a genuine question, not trying to debate. Ketosis is often referred to as the best method for weight loss. I know that calories and tracking are what make people successful, but I was curious what people who swear by keto read to make them feel that way. I can look on a keto site and see what they are referring to.


    I know this thread is about keto - and I am probably nit picking - but calories are what make people successful, not neccesarily calories and tracking.

    This is MFP - so there will be bias toward tracking.

    But it isnt neccesary for everyone - there are people who successfully cut calories /lose or maintain weight without tracking.

    It’s so funny you highlighted that because I thought about that after I posted and was too lazy to edit it. You’re 💯 correct!
    edited March 29
  • damianromero2014damianromero2014 Member, Premium Posts: 4 Member Member, Premium Posts: 4 Member
    There are a TON of misconceptions here about keto and why it works...

    So there are two parts to every diet:

    1) Physical hunger
    Keto works so well because when your body switches from burning carbs to burning fat, you're no longer walking around hungry all the time and don't snack. Many people who're on keto also do intermittent fasting because they don't get physically hungry until the afternoons.

    2) Mental food cravings/addiction/obsession or whatever you want to call it.
    The mental food cravings are different for each of us. For some of us keto is easier because excluding anything with sugar or gluten quells the internal bargaining dialogues we have with ourselves about cheating, treats, rewards, being bad, "just one more" and all the other stupid excuses we make that cause us to fail. For others, who aren't gluttons, including treats/cheat days helps staying on track.

    CICO is true but only to a certain point. If you're eating foods that make your insulin skyrocket and plummet like a yo-yo on steroids, you will have a harder time losing weight, even if you're consuming the same amount of calories as someone with a healthy diet.
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