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To Keto or Not To Keto?
Replies
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@psuLemon I didn’t realize the fitness industry created a buzz phrase. I am referring to processing more efficiently. It’s funny though that he is bashing someone who sells supplements while he sells supplements. Oh, and he lost me at the stupid insertion of “wrong”.
And, thank you. I misspoke. You are correct about genetics and diet being able to reduce risk.
But doesn't efficient mean burning less calories?
The food you eat contains a specific amount of calories. If you eat 2000 calories, you have to either use or store 2000 calories.
Efficiency usually means getting something done with the least amount of energy or other resources used. So a more efficient body is using less energy (calories) and resources to get things done. Which would mean more calories left to store, as fat.
That's why posters keep asking you to explain what you mean by metabolic efficiency. Because I would think a more efficient metabolism would mean burning less calories, which would mean needing to eat less food. Which does not sound like a tempting goal!
Exactly. Setting aside the question of whether or not it's better for our health to be "metabolically efficient" (I don't think there is any evidence that shows this should be a goal), the reality is that most of us would be unpleasantly surprised if we suddenly became more metabolically efficient (because we'd either have to reduce our food consumption or make more time in the day for activity).2 -
@AnnPT77 what is the best way to get 100 grams of protein with a 1500-calorie limit?
From plant sources? I wouldn't be trying to do it with just one food, for sure. The "best way" idea is a straw man, since I think we all have a mixed diet that changes by day. (I do have a 100g protein minimum daily, but that's as a vegetarian.)
But, sure, I'll play:
265g seitan, 100.7g protein, 586 calories. (That's just one brand, but around 500-some calories for 100g protein seems fairly normal.)
235g of edamame/mung fettucine, 100.7g protein, 797 calories.
467g tempeh, 100.1g protein, 890 calories. (That's a lot of calories, but it has half my fat goal covered, too.)
945g extra-firm tofu, 100g protein, 1000 calories. (Also a lot of calories, but covers my whole fat goal, so all I need is some veggies and fruit; iron and calcium are in the tofu.)
Obviously, people on reduced calories often choose to use protein powders, but those would be some common food choices as protein options.
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@AnnPT77 thanks. I googled it and found some daily menu plans.
Just to be clear: I know of nothing, in what I'd consider sound science, that says it's healthier to entirely omit animal sources of protein. I've been a vegetarian for 46+ years, but that's my opinion about the health aspect. Eating only plant foods does make it a little more difficult to get certain nutrients (not just protein), and that difficulty increases slightly with a low-ish calorie goal; and fully plant-based eating is socially and logistically inconvenient, in various minor ways. I wouldn't urge plant-based eating on anyone who doesn't have some ethical reason to go that route.1 -
@AnnPT77 thanks. I googled it and found some daily menu plans.
Just to be clear: I know of nothing, in what I'd consider sound science, that says it's healthier to entirely omit animal sources of protein. I've been a vegetarian for 46+ years, but that's my opinion about the health aspect. Eating only plant foods does make it a little more difficult to get certain nutrients (not just protein), and that difficulty increases slightly with a low-ish calorie goal; and fully plant-based eating is socially and logistically inconvenient, in various minor ways. I wouldn't urge plant-based eating on anyone who doesn't have some ethical reason to go that route.
https://youtu.be/g-upzvuwAng 1 -
Paraphrasing what I wrote upthread: For health, more people would get better benefit from increasing veggies/fruits, vs. trying to eliminate meats.@AnnPT77 thanks. I googled it and found some daily menu plans.
Just to be clear: I know of nothing, in what I'd consider sound science, that says it's healthier to entirely omit animal sources of protein. I've been a vegetarian for 46+ years, but that's my opinion about the health aspect. Eating only plant foods does make it a little more difficult to get certain nutrients (not just protein), and that difficulty increases slightly with a low-ish calorie goal; and fully plant-based eating is socially and logistically inconvenient, in various minor ways. I wouldn't urge plant-based eating on anyone who doesn't have some ethical reason to go that route.https://youtu.be/g-upzvuwAng
Not that PP will be inclined to listen to Layne . . . . 😆3 -
Paraphrasing what I wrote upthread: For health, more people would get better benefit from increasing veggies/fruits, vs. trying to eliminate meats.@AnnPT77 thanks. I googled it and found some daily menu plans.
Just to be clear: I know of nothing, in what I'd consider sound science, that says it's healthier to entirely omit animal sources of protein. I've been a vegetarian for 46+ years, but that's my opinion about the health aspect. Eating only plant foods does make it a little more difficult to get certain nutrients (not just protein), and that difficulty increases slightly with a low-ish calorie goal; and fully plant-based eating is socially and logistically inconvenient, in various minor ways. I wouldn't urge plant-based eating on anyone who doesn't have some ethical reason to go that route.https://youtu.be/g-upzvuwAng
Not that PP will be inclined to listen to Layne . . . . 😆
Honestly, it was to address your first sentence. I figured you would be interested in some of the new science.
Ironically, I am one of the more advanced ketogenic dieters. And after my vacation, ill probably be back on CKD.1 -
Paraphrasing what I wrote upthread: For health, more people would get better benefit from increasing veggies/fruits, vs. trying to eliminate meats.@AnnPT77 thanks. I googled it and found some daily menu plans.
Just to be clear: I know of nothing, in what I'd consider sound science, that says it's healthier to entirely omit animal sources of protein. I've been a vegetarian for 46+ years, but that's my opinion about the health aspect. Eating only plant foods does make it a little more difficult to get certain nutrients (not just protein), and that difficulty increases slightly with a low-ish calorie goal; and fully plant-based eating is socially and logistically inconvenient, in various minor ways. I wouldn't urge plant-based eating on anyone who doesn't have some ethical reason to go that route.https://youtu.be/g-upzvuwAng
Not that PP will be inclined to listen to Layne . . . . 😆
Honestly, it was to address your first sentence. I figured you would be interested in some of the new science.
Ironically, I am one of the more advanced ketogenic dieters. And after my vacation, ill probably be back on CKD.
I did appreciate the link: Already shared it on another thread. 😉
To me, this pretty much seems like common sense, when it comes to the meat side of it: Why would humans, who throughout the sweep of history in nearly all places have consumed some animal protein, thrive better without animal protein?
There are good reasons to omit animal protein from one's eating, but IMO not in the health/nutrition realm, primarily. (I do feel a level of skepticism about the impact of some industrial farming practices, but it's not something I've given careful study for probably-obvious reasons; and as this video notes, some forms of meat processing/preservation may be suboptimal for health.)
In general, the last few pages of this thread have been pretty well marinated in irony, if you ask me. I appreciate and respect your science-based approach to nutrition and diet, though I don't have the interest or patience for that level of technical intensity in my own eating/life. If anyone on this thread would have well-founded insights into so-called health or diet hacks that would increase "efficiency," improve "metabolic efficiency," reduce inflammation, etc., it would be you, IMO. The marketing oriented diet gurus get the street cred, though, I guess. 😆1 -
Paraphrasing what I wrote upthread: For health, more people would get better benefit from increasing veggies/fruits, vs. trying to eliminate meats.@AnnPT77 thanks. I googled it and found some daily menu plans.
Just to be clear: I know of nothing, in what I'd consider sound science, that says it's healthier to entirely omit animal sources of protein. I've been a vegetarian for 46+ years, but that's my opinion about the health aspect. Eating only plant foods does make it a little more difficult to get certain nutrients (not just protein), and that difficulty increases slightly with a low-ish calorie goal; and fully plant-based eating is socially and logistically inconvenient, in various minor ways. I wouldn't urge plant-based eating on anyone who doesn't have some ethical reason to go that route.https://youtu.be/g-upzvuwAng
Not that PP will be inclined to listen to Layne . . . . 😆
Honestly, it was to address your first sentence. I figured you would be interested in some of the new science.
Ironically, I am one of the more advanced ketogenic dieters. And after my vacation, ill probably be back on CKD.
I did appreciate the link: Already shared it on another thread. 😉
To me, this pretty much seems like common sense, when it comes to the meat side of it: Why would humans, who throughout the sweep of history in nearly all places have consumed some animal protein, thrive better without animal protein?
There are good reasons to omit animal protein from one's eating, but IMO not in the health/nutrition realm, primarily. (I do feel a level of skepticism about the impact of some industrial farming practices, but it's not something I've given careful study for probably-obvious reasons; and as this video notes, some forms of meat processing/preservation may be suboptimal for health.)
In general, the last few pages of this thread have been pretty well marinated in irony, if you ask me. I appreciate and respect your science-based approach to nutrition and diet, though I don't have the interest or patience for that level of technical intensity in my own eating/life. If anyone on this thread would have well-founded insights into so-called health or diet hacks that would increase "efficiency," improve "metabolic efficiency," reduce inflammation, etc., it would be you, IMO. The marketing oriented diet gurus get the street cred, though, I guess. 😆
I certainly appreciate that. I love learning about dieting and spend a lot of time researching about various diets and have practiced them. I think most newer keto'ers don't realize i have a lot of knowledge on the specific diet protocols but have followed several researchers in the field.
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I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.3 -
Here are some quotes from her book, many which I don't agree with because physiology 101 doesn't refer to it.
· Page 6, “We’re supposed to be able to use our body fat for energy between meals. That’s why we have body fat! We’re not supposed to need regular snacks—or even regular meals. We’re supposed to feel fine eating just one meal a day if we so choose, as long as we meet our nutritional needs in that one sitting.”
· Page 9, “In other words, the kind of fat you eat changes what kinds of fuel your body’s cells can use, which determines everything about your health.”
· Page 19, “When your metabolism is damaged, you lack energy. When you lack energy, you want to eat more often, and most of us seek out foods that make metabolic damage worse. It’s a trap—but you can escape if you can get more energy.”
· Page 20, “A healthy metabolism uses body fat to sustain your energy all day so that you don’t need to rely on food to keep your energy up. When your metabolism is healthy, you have plenty of energy all day long even if you don’t have time to eat.”
· Page 20, “Low energy also makes you gain weight. When your energy is down, you’re going to feel lazier than when your energy is up.”
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I’m reading Part 2 now. More science-driven than the intro. She cites various scientific studies and shares political and societal changes to the norm.
Something to consider, with all books, even with quoted studies, it doesn't mean that they are stating what the actual study is saying.
I guess the larger question is what are your goals and what are you trying to achieve?
This reminds me of my experience reading "Bright Line Eating." I didn't disagree with the science the author was referencing, but I did disagree with her conclusions on how to apply it.2 -
Keto was a waste of time for me and restricts healthy food options (Fruits and some vegetables) which doesn't seem like a good idea to me.2
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If keto works and is sustainable for you then go for it. If not, don't...
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jillybeansalad wrote: »I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.
I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.
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Poobah1972 wrote: »jillybeansalad wrote: »I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.
I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.
I largely agree (I tend to cut carbs on a deficit, since I find it an easy way to cut cals), but I see jillybeansalad's point. Many people do things like cutting out specific foods or going keto as the way they control cals (they don't count). So if they lose the weight and then go back to eating as they were, of course they will regain. If one figures out maintenance cals and a way to eat to hit them (keto or no), that works, whether or not one changes one's way of eating, but for many it would probably be easier and require less adjustment if one doesn't dramatically change one's way of eating in maintenance (some even adjust to eating maintenance cals for the goal weight at some point while losing still).4 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »jillybeansalad wrote: »I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.
I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.
I think the specific issue with certain plans, including keto, is that if you lose your weight without learning about how to eat the number of calories you need to manage your weight, then you will regain weight if your habits change.
This isn't to say that EVERYONE on keto isn't paying attention to calories, but it's certainly the case that some people don't and then are upset when they find themselves unable to maintain their weight loss when they add more carbohydrates to their diet.
Whereas if you lose weight by introducing a 250 calorie a day deficit, knowing how to maintain that weight loss is relatively straightforward (not to say that everyone finds it EASY, but understanding how to actually maintain it is often simpler).
It seems (broadly speaking) there are two camps of keto users -- there are those who are using keto because it makes it easier for them to hit their calorie goal and there are those who either don't believe that calories control their weight loss or don't understand how calories impact their weight loss. For the second group, it seems like maintaining a goal weight could potentially be more difficult.4 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »jillybeansalad wrote: »I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.
I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.
My diet is exactly the same whether I am losing, maintaining, or gaining. The only difference is whether I am in a 250 calorie deficit, eating maintenance calories, or whether I am in a 250 calorie surplus. It is so subtle I can barely tell the difference between each phase. Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success? By changing or demonizing certain macros you’re increasing the probability that one won’t maintain that change comfortably or indefinitely.0 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »jillybeansalad wrote: »I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.
I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.
My diet is exactly the same whether I am losing, maintaining, or gaining. The only difference is whether I am in a 250 calorie deficit, eating maintenance calories, or whether I am in a 250 calorie surplus. It is so subtle I can barely tell the difference between each phase. Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success? By changing or demonizing certain macros you’re increasing the probability that one won’t maintain that change comfortably or indefinitely.
That's good for you, it really is... And for anyone that is hovering around maintenance, absolutely eat whatever makes you happy within the realm of CICO.
The fact remains Keto is a boon for me when losing "Lots of weight" I've tried all manners of diets before. All of them left me feeling famished all the time, I simply didn't enjoy what I was eating, and the hunger and my dislike for said food invariably wore me down. On Keto, I enjoy all my meals thoroughly (I'm a cook at heart). And even though I'm eating at a considerable deficit I am seldom hungry and when I occasionally do feel some hunger it's right around supper time.
Keto has real benefits in addition to just hunger control...
I could hardly walk before keto... Start keto, and with in the first week my back pain completely disappeared... Within 2 weeks my knee pain practically vanished. I surmise this was due to Glycogen depletion resulting in less stress on critical parts of spine and general anti-inflammation effects. This is a real effect of Keto, and invaluable to me... Cause if it hurts to sleep or move, it becomes difficult to smile and get out of bed, let alone go to work and live life. Gigantic benefit for me, and I'm not alone in this effect.
It may be to early to tell, but I test my glucose every morning and my readings are showing a significant downward trend of late. It's a bit to early to tell, but I'm excited to see if this downward trend will continue. This is a well known effect of a Keto diet. This is a big deal to me and many like me. And it ties directly into insulin control and reduced appetite (along with additional appetite suppression from High fat and protein diets). This could help save peoples lives and the increase ones longevity if your dealing with insulin issues.
I love what I eat... I love cooking... I get to eat all of it within my macro goals. I even eat a full big piece of toast every single morning. I personally couldn't imagine loosing weight being any easier. Sure I may sacrifice some fruits, but I do substitute with a lot of berries. There are really few sacrifices to be made if you take the time and effort to find alternatives (like baking amazing Keto bread). And if you really wanted to, you can still remain in ketosis while including a fruit here and there if that's what you chose to do with your macro's that day.
I'm speaking from my experience... A guy who's morbidly obese.... But I have done this before, and I did switch to a more balanced diet as I got closer and closer to a normal weight. I kept going strong... That doesn't mean Keto or a balanced diet didn't work cause each them did work, it was an amazing tool to loose a lot of weight while staying incredibly satisfied both in enjoyment of food and lack of hunger while being protein/muscle sparing. I was doing great (although i did begin to dislike broccoli and chicken breasts... lol).... What ended up doing me in was a poisonous relationship, that brought me to my knees to the point I didn't care anymore and I let it all slip away. It wasn't Keto's fault and it wasn't the more balanced diet's fault, it was my failure to cope with the stresses of life and a toxic relationship.
Keto is an amazing tool for those that have significant amounts of weight to loose... But regardless of what WOE your choose... CICO should always be in mind. I often see people discount keto without acknowledging some of the points that make an incredible difference in ones life and happiness during the coarse of weight loss.
All that said... If you go back to eating carbs without reducing calories elsewhere you going to have a problem... So granted learning to eat whatever you would normally eat has benefits in terms of training oneself... But that still doesn't undercut the ability of a keto diet to make a huge positive impact in many peoples lives.
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Poobah1972 wrote: »jillybeansalad wrote: »I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.
I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.
I agree with you that the "revert back" thing applies to many strategies, but I think there's a special caveat for greatly reduced carbs (whether to actual keto level or not).
Dramatically reduced carbs, as I know you know, triggers a big up-front water weight drop. That's not a bad thing. It can even be motivating, even to someone who knows it's a little fake when it comes to "real" weight loss, i.e., fat loss.
In the cases where someone is low-carbing (in a big way), but plans to significantly increase carbs in maintenance (not necessarily all the way to previous levels; let's assume just increase to maintenance calories by adding more carbs disproportionately to adding other macros), a big chunk of water weight will come back. That's also not a big problem IMO . . . as long as they expect it, know what it is when it happens, and don't panic.
There's potentially a bit of that for anyone (even balanced macros dieters) who add back a moderately large calorie deficit in one chunk, to reach maintenance calories. A fair number of people get some glycogen replenishment, water weight increase, in that scenario, and the scale weight jumps. Understood and expected, that's NBD.
But it's not unusual to see people around here go to maintenance, see a multi-pound scale jump pretty much overnight, *not* understand and interpret it accurately, think "OMG I'm regaining", panic, and revert to deficit calories, when they should (and actually want to) stop losing, but they don't understand how/why this scale jump is a potential part of the process.
Going from a low-carb strategy to a balanced-macros strategy, at the same time as going to maintenance calories, is likely to exaggerate that effect. I think that's part of the reason you might see, in threads, a little more "if you're not planning to do this long term . . . " with respect to low carb/keto strategies. That thought process may not be explicit, spelled out, though.
Personally, I think it's a good plan, at least in the later stages of loss, to begin experimenting and practicing the intended maintenance strategy, whatever it is, but with the cushion of a small calorie deficit in case of . . . temporary experimental failures? It's fine to lose much of weight in a way different from maintenance plans, I think . . . but maintenance practice *before* maintenance is a big help to truly maintaining long term, IMO. Getting to the end of loss, and just needing to add some calories (but not change any other major eating or exercise habits) IMO creates a smoother on-ramp to maintenance, maybe higher likelihood of making it work.2 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »Poobah1972 wrote: »jillybeansalad wrote: »I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.
I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.
My diet is exactly the same whether I am losing, maintaining, or gaining. The only difference is whether I am in a 250 calorie deficit, eating maintenance calories, or whether I am in a 250 calorie surplus. It is so subtle I can barely tell the difference between each phase. Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success? By changing or demonizing certain macros you’re increasing the probability that one won’t maintain that change comfortably or indefinitely.
That's good for you, it really is... And for anyone that is hovering around maintenance, absolutely eat whatever makes you happy within the realm of CICO.
The fact remains Keto is a boon for me when losing "Lots of weight" I've tried all manners of diets before. All of them left me feeling famished all the time, I simply didn't enjoy what I was eating, and the hunger and my dislike for said food invariably wore me down. On Keto, I enjoy all my meals thoroughly (I'm a cook at heart). And even though I'm eating at a considerable deficit I am seldom hungry and when I occasionally do feel some hunger it's right around supper time.
Keto has real benefits in addition to just hunger control...
I could hardly walk before keto... Start keto, and with in the first week my back pain completely disappeared... Within 2 weeks my knee pain practically vanished. I surmise this was due to Glycogen depletion resulting in less stress on critical parts of spine and general anti-inflammation effects. This is a real effect of Keto, and invaluable to me... Cause if it hurts to sleep or move, it becomes difficult to smile and get out of bed, let alone go to work and live life. Gigantic benefit for me, and I'm not alone in this effect.
It may be to early to tell, but I test my glucose every morning and my readings are showing a significant downward trend of late. It's a bit to early to tell, but I'm excited to see if this downward trend will continue. This is a well known effect of a Keto diet. This is a big deal to me and many like me. And it ties directly into insulin control and reduced appetite (along with additional appetite suppression from High fat and protein diets). This could help save peoples lives and the increase ones longevity if your dealing with insulin issues.
I love what I eat... I love cooking... I get to eat all of it within my macro goals. I even eat a full big piece of toast every single morning. I personally couldn't imagine loosing weight being any easier. Sure I may sacrifice some fruits, but I do substitute with a lot of berries. There are really few sacrifices to be made if you take the time and effort to find alternatives (like baking amazing Keto bread). And if you really wanted to, you can still remain in ketosis while including a fruit here and there if that's what you chose to do with your macro's that day.
I'm speaking from my experience... A guy who's morbidly obese.... But I have done this before, and I did switch to a more balanced diet as I got closer and closer to a normal weight. I kept going strong... That doesn't mean Keto or a balanced diet didn't work cause each them did work, it was an amazing tool to loose a lot of weight while staying incredibly satisfied both in enjoyment of food and lack of hunger while being protein/muscle sparing. I was doing great (although i did begin to dislike broccoli and chicken breasts... lol).... What ended up doing me in was a poisonous relationship, that brought me to my knees to the point I didn't care anymore and I let it all slip away. It wasn't Keto's fault and it wasn't the more balanced diet's fault, it was my failure to cope with the stresses of life and a toxic relationship.
Keto is an amazing tool for those that have significant amounts of weight to loose... But regardless of what WOE your choose... CICO should always be in mind. I often see people discount keto without acknowledging some of the points that make an incredible difference in ones life and happiness during the coarse of weight loss.
All that said... If you go back to eating carbs without reducing calories elsewhere you going to have a problem... So granted learning to eat whatever you would normally eat has benefits in terms of training oneself... But that still doesn't undercut the ability of a keto diet to make a huge positive impact in many peoples lives.
That's good for you, it really is... And for anyone that is hovering around maintenance, absolutely eat whatever makes you happy within the realm of CICO.
Anyone (medically cleared) at any point can eat whatever they want in a deficit, not just people hovering around maintenance. If Keto satiates you, cool. The important take away is that keto is a tool, and will not work without a calorie deficit, which you know 👌🏻 I bet if you continue to lose weight your mood, sleep, energy, blood pressure, and pain will all improve, all due to weight loss.
I was on an extremely strict Atkins diet for 10 years, so your experience isn’t lost on me. I’ve also had to lose nearly half my body weight before, so I understand the struggle. This is why education and understanding biology and physiology is so important. The more we understand the better we are at preventing a yo-yo situation in the future. If you want to wait until you’re closer to maintenance to add carbs into your diet, by all means. Each person has a method they prefer, and it should be tailored to your lifestyle.
You’re not alone on this journey, and it doesn’t just stop when you are close to maintenance. Health and wellness is a forever effort. And when you get close to your goal, I hope when you are helping someone who is going through what you went through, they won’t treat you like you don’t understand what it could possibly be like to struggle. Here’s a helpful tip when it does- take it as a compliment and keep helping where you can 😊1 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »jillybeansalad wrote: »I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.
I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.
My diet is exactly the same whether I am losing, maintaining, or gaining. The only difference is whether I am in a 250 calorie deficit, eating maintenance calories, or whether I am in a 250 calorie surplus. It is so subtle I can barely tell the difference between each phase. Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success? By changing or demonizing certain macros you’re increasing the probability that one won’t maintain that change comfortably or indefinitely.
As a very experienced dieter, i can tell you that your strategy doesn't work for me anymore. The only way i can lose weight is keto because its the only way for me to sustain a deficit. Carbs signal my hunger. So I will run a cyclical ketogenic diet where i carb refeed every two weeks for two days.
As a group, we need to stop with the projection. What you find easy, isn't someone else's easy. What you find hard, might be someone's easy.
Ultimately, the people who tend to be the most successful long term are people who track in one or more ways; weight, carbs, calories, inches, etc. Low carb, low fat, flexible, or whatever all produce little success.
The only way anyone will be successful is by trying a few things out to find out what is sustainable. I just know for me, high carb diets are great for maintenance for me but suck for weight loss. And keto generally aligns to my dietary beliefs. But then again, it helps i am a really good cook.3 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »jillybeansalad wrote: »I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.
I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.
My diet is exactly the same whether I am losing, maintaining, or gaining. The only difference is whether I am in a 250 calorie deficit, eating maintenance calories, or whether I am in a 250 calorie surplus. It is so subtle I can barely tell the difference between each phase. Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success? By changing or demonizing certain macros you’re increasing the probability that one won’t maintain that change comfortably or indefinitely.
As a very experienced dieter, i can tell you that your strategy doesn't work for me anymore. The only way i can lose weight is keto because its the only way for me to sustain a deficit. Carbs signal my hunger. So I will run a cyclical ketogenic diet where i carb refeed every two weeks for two days.
As a group, we need to stop with the projection. What you find easy, isn't someone else's easy. What you find hard, might be someone's easy.
Ultimately, the people who tend to be the most successful long term are people who track in one or more ways; weight, carbs, calories, inches, etc. Low carb, low fat, flexible, or whatever all produce little success.
The only way anyone will be successful is by trying a few things out to find out what is sustainable. I just know for me, high carb diets are great for maintenance for me but suck for weight loss. And keto generally aligns to my dietary beliefs. But then again, it helps i am a really good cook.
I didn’t say you need to eat like me. Here’s a direct quote-
“Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success?” And “ Each person has a method they prefer, and it should be tailored to your lifestyle.”
If eating low carb works to satiate you, great. I support using it as a tool, but not to demonize a macro, or when it is falsely recognized as a weight loss miracle. As previously mentioned I ate this way for 10 years because the idea that carbs were somehow the enemy permeated my every thought. This is dangerous and irresponsible. Food is food, and it comes down to CICO, whether you choose keto, low fat, IF, or whatever.1 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »jillybeansalad wrote: »I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.
I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.
My diet is exactly the same whether I am losing, maintaining, or gaining. The only difference is whether I am in a 250 calorie deficit, eating maintenance calories, or whether I am in a 250 calorie surplus. It is so subtle I can barely tell the difference between each phase. Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success? By changing or demonizing certain macros you’re increasing the probability that one won’t maintain that change comfortably or indefinitely.
As a very experienced dieter, i can tell you that your strategy doesn't work for me anymore. The only way i can lose weight is keto because its the only way for me to sustain a deficit. Carbs signal my hunger. So I will run a cyclical ketogenic diet where i carb refeed every two weeks for two days.
As a group, we need to stop with the projection. What you find easy, isn't someone else's easy. What you find hard, might be someone's easy.
Ultimately, the people who tend to be the most successful long term are people who track in one or more ways; weight, carbs, calories, inches, etc. Low carb, low fat, flexible, or whatever all produce little success.
The only way anyone will be successful is by trying a few things out to find out what is sustainable. I just know for me, high carb diets are great for maintenance for me but suck for weight loss. And keto generally aligns to my dietary beliefs. But then again, it helps i am a really good cook.
I didn’t say you need to eat like me. Here’s a direct quote-
“Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success?” And “ Each person has a method they prefer, and it should be tailored to your lifestyle.”
If eating low carb works to satiate you, great. I support using it as a tool, but not to demonize a macro, or when it is falsely recognized as a weight loss miracle. As previously mentioned I ate this way for 10 years because the idea that carbs were somehow the enemy permeated my every thought. This is dangerous and irresponsible. Food is food, and it comes down to CICO, whether you choose keto, low fat, IF, or whatever.
And my response is still it depends. Keto is not authentic to my style of eating but i found it blunted my hunger. I tried it after trying to get super lean for 3 years after i lost my first 50 lbs over a decade ago.
And while food is food, there is often a lot more baggage to deal with when it comes to dieting..and simple having smaller portions often doesn't work. People often have to eliminate foods. I see this from training people.
From a fundamental level, the less restrictions there are, the likelihood of success, but that is more of a generalization than a rule.1 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »jillybeansalad wrote: »I like carbs...
So, depends on if you *want* to avoid them to lose weight. What happens when you lose it? Will you continue or will you revert back?
It's a very individual decision, imo.
I think the "revert back" statement is a very unfair statement that would apply to all diets across the board... Not only to Keto. Regardless of how you lose the weight, one must make the adjustment to Maintenance, and if you choose to add carb (a totally reasonable decision), you must also adjust your macro's. Failure to adjust is what causes everyone to put the weight back on.
My diet is exactly the same whether I am losing, maintaining, or gaining. The only difference is whether I am in a 250 calorie deficit, eating maintenance calories, or whether I am in a 250 calorie surplus. It is so subtle I can barely tell the difference between each phase. Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success? By changing or demonizing certain macros you’re increasing the probability that one won’t maintain that change comfortably or indefinitely.
As a very experienced dieter, i can tell you that your strategy doesn't work for me anymore. The only way i can lose weight is keto because its the only way for me to sustain a deficit. Carbs signal my hunger. So I will run a cyclical ketogenic diet where i carb refeed every two weeks for two days.
As a group, we need to stop with the projection. What you find easy, isn't someone else's easy. What you find hard, might be someone's easy.
Ultimately, the people who tend to be the most successful long term are people who track in one or more ways; weight, carbs, calories, inches, etc. Low carb, low fat, flexible, or whatever all produce little success.
The only way anyone will be successful is by trying a few things out to find out what is sustainable. I just know for me, high carb diets are great for maintenance for me but suck for weight loss. And keto generally aligns to my dietary beliefs. But then again, it helps i am a really good cook.
I didn’t say you need to eat like me. Here’s a direct quote-
“Don’t you think eating in a way that is authentic to your lifestyle will increase your chance of success?” And “ Each person has a method they prefer, and it should be tailored to your lifestyle.”
If eating low carb works to satiate you, great. I support using it as a tool, but not to demonize a macro, or when it is falsely recognized as a weight loss miracle. As previously mentioned I ate this way for 10 years because the idea that carbs were somehow the enemy permeated my every thought. This is dangerous and irresponsible. Food is food, and it comes down to CICO, whether you choose keto, low fat, IF, or whatever.
And my response is still it depends. Keto is not authentic to my style of eating but i found it blunted my hunger. I tried it after trying to get super lean for 3 years after i lost my first 50 lbs over a decade ago.
And while food is food, there is often a lot more baggage to deal with when it comes to dieting..and simple having smaller portions often doesn't work. People often have to eliminate foods. I see this from training people.
From a fundamental level, the less restrictions there are, the likelihood of success, but that is more of a generalization than a rule.
What I liked about Atkins when I did it for that 10 years was I felt like I didn't have to starve myself to lose weight. That's what hooked me for so long. Well, that and the fear of carbs at the time. But when I stopped losing the weight, I felt trapped, like- I have to eat this way forever and I can't even lose weight on it anymore! What's the point!? Oh man, it was unbelievably frustrating.
Once it sunk in that a calorie deficit is the reason for weight loss, I asked myself why I would remove entire food groups from my life that I loved and enjoyed if I have to be in a deficit anyway? It still took me a couple of years to acclimate to eating bread and fruit again (I was legitimately afraid), but when I did I felt like, wow- I CAN be like everyone else. There wasn't something wrong with me, and I wasn't a freak of nature. I didn't have to punish myself if I ate a piece of birthday cake and I didn't destroy all my hard work.
Do I blame Atkins, Keto, Paleo, or any other carb restricting diets for what happened to me? No. Do I attribute carb and sugar demonizing on misinformation and misleading media statements, absolutely. If someone prefers a certain way of eating because it makes them feel better, that's wonderful. Like I said, each person should tailor their diet to meet their lifestyle. Not everyone is satiated by eating fat/protein-heavy diets. I wasn't. I had NO energy. Not everyone is satisfied with a carb-loaded diet either. At the end of the day, it is individual and keeping the scales balanced on how we communicate that was my only intention.
BTW, congrats on the 50lbs!1 -
I don't do keto but I have gone low carb. I suffer from joint pain, depression and my mum and grandparents had dementia. My husband has arthritis in his spine. Having researched many articles on the internet there was a lot of common advice.
Exercise, get a good night's sleep, don't smoke, reduce alcohol intake and avoid sugars.
Many doctors recommended the keto diet but to go completely clean keto for me would be impossible to stick to so I have gone for a low carb diet and I mainly use my 30-40g of carbs a day on fresh vegetables. Sometimes I have a couple of pieces of chocolate that takes up about 6g of my carbs.
Yes I am losing weight too but I am overweight and I also need to lose a few pounds. But ultimately it's that chance to fight off that dementia that may well be headed my way.
2 -
millymalaga wrote: »I have gone for a low carb diet and I mainly use my 30-40g of carbs a day on fresh vegetables.
You can still go Keto and hit 40 carbs regularly... At least my fiancé and I can. I've hit 60 once, and it never took me out of ketosis. Everyone is different though, but I thought it's worth mentioning.
0 -
I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?1
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I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?
Who is saying it's superior?
Like I stated earlier is there are indicators or trends of successful people, most of which are not the specific diet but rather other additives (i.e., tracking) that make people more successful.1 -
I had some time this evening and I was genuinely curious, so I googled to discover what the magic of ketosis is. I scrolled and scrolled but couldn’t find a reputable site for what makes ketosis the best and elite method of weight loss. Can someone please send me a link on why this method is superior?
Who is saying it's superior?
Like I stated earlier is there are indicators or trends of successful people, most of which are not the specific diet but rather other additives (i.e., tracking) that make people more successful.
It was a genuine question, not trying to debate. Ketosis is often referred to as the best method for weight loss. I know that calories and tracking are what make people successful, but I was curious what people who swear by keto read to make them feel that way. I can look on a keto site and see what they are referring to.0
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